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Student Arrested for Writing Essay
mcgrew writes "The Chicago Tribune reports that an eighteen year old straight-A High School student was arrested for writing an essay that 'disturbed' his teacher. Even though no threats were made to a specific person, 18 year-old Allen Lee's English teacher convened a panel to discuss the work. As a result of that discussion, the police were called in. 'The youth's father said his son was not suspended or expelled but was forced to attend classes elsewhere for now. Today, Cary-Grove students rallied behind the arrested teen by organizing a petition drive to let him back in their school. They posted on walls quotes from the English teacher in which she had encouraged students to express their emotions through writing.'"
On the off chance the kid is a nut job I guess you need to check him out. I'm not sure you need to arrest him....
This
I think the various over-reactions to the VaTech tragedy are sad. For example, this and also Yale banning stage weapons. I wonder what was in the essay that made the teacher go bonkers. I guess she should have told her students just to write about fluffy clouds and easter bunny.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
So you're advocating a zero-tolerance policy towards the enforcers of ridiculous zero-tolerance policies? That's pretty recursive, don't you think?
I've been following this case for a couple of days now, but can't seem to find anyone who has posted the essay anywhere. So I appeal to the /.ers -- anyone know of a copy?
Without seeing the essay in question, we can't know whether there were substantiable threats being made, or whether this clearly is a free speech issue. From all accounts, it appear to be the latter, but I would like to have all doubts removed.
In the aftermath of recent events, such paranoia can be understandable. But then again, even in normal circumstances, I wouldn't expect anything more from the public school system.
It sounds like a pretty scary catch-all if it includes writing essays. what else is considered "disorderly conduct" under US law?
Also, doesn't the US have a constitution which makes freedom of expression an absolute right?
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
I want to read the essay and judge for myself.
FTA:
Disorderly conduct, which carries a penalty of 30 days in jail and a $1,500 fine, is filed for pranks such as pulling a fire alarm or dialing 911. But it can also apply when someone's writings can disturb an individual, Delelio said
If this is true, then the disorderly conduct statute should be declared unconstitutional. If writing something that could disturb any random individual (without directly threatening that individual) is an arrestable offense, then the very idea of free speech is pretty much out the window. After all, if the First Amendment isn't there to protect possibly disturbing speech, what is it there for?
You know, having a sample of the actual text might help in allowing readers to see what the hell is going on. Without that, it's hard to judge, but I'd say there probably isn't a chance in hell these charges stick at trial, and pretty much certainly not at appeal assuming it made it that far.
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I'm curious what they're calling this, if not suspension or expulsion.
Given the lack of what I would consider an adequate response (which to me wouldn't have been an arrest, but rather a referal for counseling and a flag against buying weapons in the state gun background check database) they just might- by this very kid.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I was referred to the school psychologist by my physics teacher due to a "disturbing" lab report I wrote. It was supposed to be funny. My results were really far off from accepted values of the index of refraction fro the material we were testing. So I blamed it on microscopic blackholes warping spacetime to create a gravatic lens. I blamed my result on that or " possibly a covert attempt by the Clintons to cover up the "suicide" of Vince Foster"
Apparently, he though that meant I was suicidal.
Maybe his was more disturbing. Its difficult to say what to do in each situation. It seems like some people overreact, and others under react. I think my case was clearly an attempt at humor, but recommending a visit tot he school shrink for further evaluation is probably the best first step.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
The story points to them being a "straight A student". What does this have to do with anything? Are they implying that a persons GPA is an indicator of their abilities to shoot others at school?
Just what was the point of that?
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
----------
Any problem can be made unsolvable if there are enough meetings made to discuss it.
On the off chance the kid is a nut job I guess you need to check him out
Allen Lee - is that like Stan Lee or Bruce Lee? Just wondering if we have a teacher running in fear of young asian men.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
(Northwest Herald) CARY, Ill. In addition to telling his teacher she could inspire the first shooting at Cary-Grove High School, Allen Lee also wrote about stabbing, drug use and a dream about a shooting spree in an essay for his English class, records show.
... None of it was meant to be threatening or harmful to anyone."
But Lee said Thursday night that the excerpts were taken out of context in an assignment that explicitly instructed students not to judge or censor their writing.
Lee said a friend planned to distribute the complete essay and assignment to Cary-Grove students today to provide context to a story that has gained national attention.
"It's not the full [essay], or with the assignment," Lee said of a criminal complaint in which prosecutors charged him with disorderly conduct Thursday. "People are already judging this without seeing the assignment.
Louis Bianchi, McHenry County state's attorney, said Thursday he would prosecute Lee on the misdemeanor charge, which carries a maximum penalty of 30 days in jail and a $1,500 fine.
"I think the teacher did the appropriate thing," Bianchi said. "Now, it's going to be brought to the attention of the courts."
Cary Police arrested Lee, 18, near his home Tuesday morning on disorderly conduct charges after Cary-Grove Principal Susan Popp called police.
Lee, who plans to enter boot camp for the Marines in October, said teacher Nora Capron told the class to write about whatever they wanted.
A copy of the assignment obtained Thursday night included the following guidelines for a "free writing" exercise:
"Write nonstop for a set period of time."
"Do not make corrections as you write."
"Keep writing, even if you have to write something like, 'I don't know what to write.' "
"Write whatever comes into your mind."
"Do not judge or censor what you are writing."
The assignment included additional guidelines such as, "If your free writing is neat and coherent, you probably haven't loosened up enough."
The Lee family met with representatives of High School District 155 Thursday to discuss potential disciplinary measures, said Dane Loizzo, whose law firm is representing Lee.
"We're attempting to get Allen back into the school with his friends and peers as quickly and judiciously as possible," said Loizzo, of the Woodstock-based Law Offices of Loizzo and Loizzo.
Messages left with district Superintendent Jill Hawk and district spokesman Jeff Puma were not immediately returned Thursday night.
Criminal Charges
School officials allege that in an essay for his ninth-period English class on Monday, Lee wrote about a dream where he went into a building, started shooting people with guns, had sex with the dead bodies. He then retracted it saying, "but it would be funny if I did."
A person can be charged with disorderly conduct if their actions are alarming or disturbing to others.
The district responded to another threat made last week at Crystal Lake Central High School. About half the students at Central stayed home Friday and police presence at the school was increased after threatening graffiti was found on a bathroom wall. The graffiti was determined to be a prank, officials have said.
Capron read Lee's essay Monday night and called her department chair, who then spoke with Cary-Grove Principal Susan Popp.
Popp called police and signed the disorderly conduct complaint shortly afterward, prosecutors said, and Lee was arrested Tuesday morning.
Attorney Thomas Loizzo said the student complied with the assignment.
"How is the student supposed to know where the line is between creativity and censorship?" he said. "The assignment didn't specify that if you wrote something that the teacher thought would be offensive, that you could then be prosecuted criminally."
Attorney Dane Loizzo agreed.
Read any good sonnets lately?
According to a Chicago Tribune Article today, the assignment directions were to write stream of consciousness and to not judge or filter your writing.
Seems to me this was a smart kid playing games with a stupid touchy feely assignment for a blow-off class his senior year.
Should the kid have been referred to a counselor? Sure.
Should the kids parents been contacted? Absolutely.
Arrested because his thoughts are disturbing? No.
Truth: If it's not one thing, it's another
One of my friends spent a fair amount of time in juvenile hall after his school dean had him arrested for destruction of property with malicious intent.
What actually happened was that he snapped another student's pencil.
the USA's legal system is broken beyond repair.
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
True story.
Several years ago, post-Columbine, my brother-in-law, a high-school senior at the time, had a bb-gun, a pistol in a bag in the back seat of his car. After school, he was going to give a few of his friends a ride, and a couple sat in the back. One of them opened the bag, saw the gun, and took it out. They were still in the parking lot of the school. Another student that was walking by saw the gun and told school officials.
The upshot of this was that all the students in the car were suspended, and my brother-in-law was expelled. After much lawyering and many hearings, he was allowed to receive his diploma, but was not allowed back to his original school. For the final three months of high school, he attended the "juvenile offenders" school.
In our current climate, I think he got off lucky.
Best Windows Freeware
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Student Arrested Over Manuscript
Updated 5:07 PM ET December 23, 2000
MORRISTOWN, N.J. (AP) - A teen-age boy has been arrested and
accused of distributing a manuscript that included passages about
killing faculty and students.
The 17-year-old student at Roxbury High School was charged with
false public alarm. His name was not disclosed.
His parents have said the boy, arrested at his home early Friday,
uses his writing to express his troubles at school.
"He's not a violent person," his mother said Friday during a court
hearing. "His outlet is his writing."
Police said they learned that at least two students had copies of
the manuscript, but would not say how they became aware of it. The
boy's mother said some of the material had been shown to his
guidance counselor.
The writings begin: "I'm a product of today's violence."
Superior Court Judge Salem Ahto said the boy should remain in
juvenile detention pending a psychological evaluation.
%%%
Secret Service accused of threatening free speech
By Associated Press, 2/16/2001 20:48
NEW YORK (AP) The Secret Service has been accused of trampling on the free
speech rights of a college student who wrote a satirical editorial asking
Jesus to ''smite'' President Bush.
The letter was published last week in the Stony Brook Press at the State
University of New York campus in Stony Brook. It was written by Glenn
Given, 22 the paper's managing editor.
Titled ''Editorial: Dear Jesus Christ, King of all Kings, All I ask is
that you smite George W. Bush.'' It also asked Jesus to strike down Bush,
his cabinet and MTV personality Carson Daly.
A faculty member apparently contacted authorities.
Given said two Secret Service agents and a campus police officer showed up
Wednesday to interrogate him.
They had him sign waivers authorizing them to check his medical records,
threatened to charge him with a crime and searched his apartment,
according to a letter of protest sent to the Secret Service by the
Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.
''The editorial was clearly a form of satire and political hyperbole'' in
response to Bush's well-publicized devotion to Christianity, the letter
said. ''We believe it is inappropriate to harass a journalist, editor,
writer or citizen for exercising his or her right to free speech.''
Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
My friend had a similar situation happen to him after the Columbine High School shooting. He made up a death-list and talked about it to friends and other students in school PRIOR to Columbine. After Columbine, he was picked up by the school administrators and police and spent several days in consoling until they decided that he wasn't serious.
It doesn't matter what the essay says; he couldv'e written about plucking his teacher's eyes out for all I care. He did what the teacher asked him to do, and nobody - NOBODY should be arrested for writing an essay, no matter inflamatory or disturbing it might be.
There are other courses of action to deal with it when someone is obviously disturbed, but really, no matter what he wrote, no matter how vile or stomach turning, it doesn't prove he's even unstable - it only proves he knows how to write to nauseate people.
I mean, have you seen Resevoir Dogs? Would you have had Quentin Tarantino's teacher's put him in a padded cell?
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Emotional outlets like creative writing can serve to provide early indication of a troubled soul. Charging a kid with a crime is not the best way to respond to this type of situation. The student may need counseling or a psychological examination, but this rough handling will only serve to alienate him. We're not supposed to be afraid of our children, we're supposed to be afraid for them.
Every time a troubled youth acts out in a destructive way, society suffers, not only in grief but in shame and guilt - we're supposed to help our fellow humans, especially the young ones. Every student murder-suicide report should count the perpetrator as a victim - we failed to notice the warning signs & help that individual, and it resulted in their demise.
------- "From bored to fanboy in 3.8 asian girls" ----------
You didn't even read the article, did you?
...Let the stereotyping begin.
Seriously though, thanks for the article.
It's fine for teachers to be vigilant and all following the VT massacre, but the principal and his/her underlings could have at least spoken to the kid about the essay (if you can call it that) to get the straight story.
And herein lies one of those traps that these "educators" can set up for themselves: a free-form assignment, unfettered by structure, unrestricted in content, heck, turn it in on toilet paper if you want, combine that with the ethnicity of the writer, and it gets used as evidence of a threat and an arrest.
The arrest is a clear case of going overboard. If this does not get corrected, well I guess we've found a new way of wrecking a young man's future.
Full disclosure: I are an Asian male... not young tho.
Science never settles, never rests.
Sadly, actions really don't really speak louder than words where Special Interest Politics are concerned, and so the San Francisco status quo can continue to market itself with terms like "compassion, tolerance, respect". But I would remind those people that it's not really tolerance if you agree with the people you're Tolerating. And, to bring the discussion back to the article, it's not really free speech if you can't write disturbing, mean, or hateful things.
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
Also, doesn't the US have a constitution which makes freedom of expression an absolute right? "or abridging the freedom of speech" is from the first amendment. The US Constitution doesn't "make" freedom of expression a right, it ASSUMES that it is ALREADY a right that we already have and then protects it. There's a difference.
Before that day a new record was set by a young man. By a young a man who had submitted stories and plays that disturbed his teachers but who took no action.
What if they had?
Well, off course if they had then the shooting would not have happened so those teachers would have been totally out of order for doing something.
The job of the police is to stop crime. No it isn't. The job of the police is to arrest people AFTER they committed a crime. As Terry Pratchett put in a recent Discworld novel "we caught the guy that done it" sounds a lot better then "we caught the guy that looked like he was going to do it" especially if they say "prove it".
BUT that doesn't help much when you got 30 dead.
Saying that those people paid the price of freedom is NOT going to win you any friends.
One /.er posted a link with a small segment of the essay. It seems to me like the typical emo/teenage kid rant. Personally I think hanging is to good for them but sadly I am not the judge.
The point is however that this happened right after a tragedy wich might have been prevented. Do you want to be the person who ignores the warning signs next time? In the the U Sue of All (man that would have my english teacher calling in the special forces)?
But we don't know the whole essay. Most police officers are rather down to earth, they KNOW the world. For them to make an arrest and for it not to be all settled easily alarms me. Slashdot happily tells us that this guy is a straight-A student. That is great because we all know straight-A students do NOT flip out. What I want to know is this, did the police check him out and what the fuck did they find?
Why doesn't slashdot reportd exactly how many guns this person owns (whatever the number may be and remember, zero is an important number) and how many kilo's of ammo he has stockpiled (again remember the humble zero).
Freedom and the prevention of crime do NOT mix. Since most want both, you are going to have conflicts.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
In the mid-80's, I wrote a short story about a group of terrorist who seized a building and ended up killing many people in their quest.
Not only did I not get into trouble, I was rewarded with an excerpt reading in class and a free trip to a gifted writers' workshop where I won awards and accolades.
If I did that today, I'd be sent away pretty quickly, I'd imagine.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
I remember writing short stories in 11th grade (many a year ago) using words from the week's vocabulary list in preparation for SATs. One of them was sort of Salem witch trials thing, with a haunted town with missing people and dead bodies. There were some others that were not my typical writing but because it was a "creative writing" and "expressive writing" assignment I decided to explore. At the time I was contemplating becoming a writer, and I thought the best way to do that was to write different stories on different subject even if it wasnt my typical stuff. Playing with words and putting it into a short story has always been fun for me. Some of the stories I wrote could potentially make me look disturbed, but even though I was quite shy in high school I've had a good family background, and common sense in me.
Attitudes like these probably mean the rocker, goth, emo, etc subcultures among teens trying to express themselves or find out who they really are, may find themselves target for "re-education" if someone deems their writing 'disturbing' when it simply may not be.
I'm really concerned about this type of attitude and I hope that politicians do not take advantage of the unfortunate incident in VT to pass legislation that makes everything ever written by our students archived and available as evidence in the future if someone is accused of a crime. Could you imagine someone pulling out your old essay from that bad day you had which you turned in?
.... ... }
int main (void) {
And of course, not surprisingly given the news from VA Tech, disturbing things were on his mind.
If a teacher does not know his or her students well enough to deal with whatever comes out of a free association exercise, that teacher has no business giving that kind of assignment. And as far as the state attorney bringing charges, hasnt Florida had enough political embarassment this decade?
The other thing I don't understand is why the teacher read the assignment. Is she this kid's psychoanalyst? Yeah, you do free association as a creative exercise, to loosen up your mental censor so you can find material you wouldn't have found. You then pick over whatever you find to get ideas to write about. You're not supposed to turn in this stuff. It's an invasion of privacy. Nobody has any right to demand an inspection of whatever is in another person's head.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Disorderly conduct, which carries a penalty of 30 days in jail and a $1,500 fine, is filed for pranks such as pulling a fire alarm or dialing 911. But it can also apply when someone's writings can disturb an individual, Delelio said.
So if a student writes an essay about there being no God, and the teacher is heavy into his/her religion and is disturbed by the essay, then according to the law, the teacher can have the student arrested for disorderly conduct?
The US as far as I know has never been a free country. Certainly it hasn't in the last 70 years.
Why can the government tell me who or how many people I can marry?
Why can the government tell me what plants I can grow?
Why can the government tell me what substances I can own?
Why can the government tell me how (or if) I should dress?
Why can the government tell two consenting adults what they can do together, or whether they can charge one another for it?
Why can the government tell me what countries I can visit?
I don't know of anywhere that I would really call free, and I am thankful for the freedoms I have. I am also watchful of the freedoms that are guaranteed to me but seem to be slipping. But I would love to see someplace that was really free.
Another 'offtopic' moderation coming my way, I'm sure...
What a great idea. Everyone should keep all of their angst and emotion to themselves. Pent up rage has never resulted in anything detrimental.
Besides that, the jist of your post seems to be, "Just be normal! And if you can't force yourself (i.e. dumb yourself down enough) to think like the masses, just act like you do anyway. Waste your life away being a passive "me-too"-er who never questions the status-quo or gets emotional about anything. It's fun to try to fit in! The majority of America does it, so you might as well do it too, right?"
If you really believe that line of bullshit, then there's not much anyone can do for you. Just go turn your television back on, get another beer, and stop trying to think.
"We may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first."
ohferchrissake, don't mod me insightful, I didn't either. And if the essay were there, I wouldn't have read that either.
Writing something disturbing is enough to cost you your right to own a gun? Wow...I sure hope Stephen King and Quentin Tarantino aren't avid hunters.
Unpleasantries.
I work for a very large federal agency and I occasionally teach sexual harassment refresher courses for my employer. I volunteer for this duty because I am one of the few people I know who will openly admit that I've been placed formally on warning for sexual harassment. I use my experience to illustrate the change in standards.
25 years ago, when my agency first started paying attention to the topic, the standard was "reasonableness." If a sexual advance or reference would not be found to be a problem by a reasonable person, then it wasn't punished. If *any* activity was found to be a problem by *any* person and that person made such known, then no reasonable person would repeat the activity. See what I'm getting at?
Do something outrageous; get punished.
Do something questionable and no one complains; nothing happens.
Do something questionable and someone lets you know they have a problem with it; now you know that it is unreasonable to repeat that action because someone finds it objectionable.
The bottom line was that everyone got one mistake. If you did something stupid, you could be told so and as long as you didn't do it again, you were OK. That standard worked fine.
I was placed formally on warning for sexual harassment when I stepped into an elevator with two women, one a secretary and one a high-powered exec. I said hello and the exec said "How are you today?" I answered "Lessee, I'm about to get off work on a beautiful Friday afternoon and in the meantime I'm locked in a small room with two beautiful women. How could I be any better?"
The exec put me on warning. The secretary was shocked that anyone could take offense. I got away with it because under a standard of reasonableness, I could not be expected to anticipate the reaction of the exec and could therefore not be held accountable. However, I now understood her rather low standard for getting offended and it would be unreasonable for me to violate it in the future; thus, if I were to make another such witty remark to that exec, I would be suspended or fired. I stopped speaking to her and everything worked out fine. The "reasonableness" criteria was a good one and quite workable.
Nowadays, the standard has changed. I stress to my classes that my very first comment in that elevator would have resulted in severe disciplinary action under our new standard where sexual harassment is now defined, essentially, as anything the victim decides to characterize as sexual harassment. My classes find the example sobering, as well they should.
They won't be since they will be in jail. I'm sure some reader/viewer found a piece of their work disturbing therefore "they gots some jail time a comin'" for disturbing their peace.
People who would MOD me as troll, are Exactly the same type of people
who would have a child arrested for a 'disturbing' paper.
Many of the framers of the U.S. Constitution wrote 'disturbing' papers.
Such MOdders are the exact reason people take the law into their own hands.
Must have been a teacher.
This story definitely reminds me of when I was in High School, I made a few violent drawings in my math class (we were learning about logic and we were told to illustrate our examples). At the time nobody said anything to me about my violent pictures, everyone just praised my artistic ability. Well, it just so happens that a few weeks later the shootings at Columbine occured and everyone was scared around the country. A different teacher that I never had class with and therefore didn't know me, found my pictures I drew earlier in the year and began to take action. I had just come back from Spring Break when my math teacher hands me photocopies of my pictures and tells me that out of fear the school suggests that I get psychologicaly evaluated. Well I had nothing to hide and I definitely wasn't going to shoot anyone so I agreed. I spoke to the school psychologist once and that was that (I could sense his bordom with me as I was talking to him). Anyway, I just wanted to share that bit of story because I don't think the student who was arrested meant any harm. I know from personal experiance what he might have been thinking when writting such an essay and in no way was it sinister. Oh yeah, and years later when I was in my guidence councelor's office, I took a peak at my file and in it were the original pictures I drew with a note stapled that read in big red letters "SANE"
The article unfortunately does not say precisely what happened to the essay. If the author only submitted it to the school (which is what it sounds like) and did not publicize any of it, then there's nothing disorderly about *his* conduct. And the teacher can't claim to be 'disturbed' by the submission since it's what they asked for.
What I find troubling is that they apparently had no process at all for dealing with the situation, and went straight to calling in the police, not for the benefit or safety of the author and other students, but because the teacher felt like a victim. (And if you're squeamish about the fact that some high school students are not always happy, then you are in the wrong profession.) It never occurred to them to *talk* to the student about his essay?
I also find myself wondering why the article is exposing the student's identity to the world for following orders but not mentioning the name of the teacher who appears to have exercised seriously poor judgment.
Yes... the point is to cause a stack-overflow and crash the governmental system.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
"Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The trouble-makers. The round heads in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules, and they have no respect for the status-quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify, or vilify them. But the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do." - Jack Kerouac
Hey we're not modding you 'Knowledgeable'
Your comments disturb me.
SECURITY! Bring me the forms that I need to fill out to have her removed from the Central Bureaucracy!
They're only "straw men" in your mind, and because you don't like them. Had you bothered to look closely, you'd realize that his points are quite valid, albeit intentionally absurd. But they most certainly relate to your points, which are also valid, and only slightly less absurd.
Freedom as you describe it cannot exist in concert with civilization as we know it. That is not because of your points, but because of the ease with which the freedoms you pontificate about are extended to their extreme.
And please do not even attempt to say it wouldn't happen.
Given this as a benchmark, I'd like to suggest that the world keep a very close eye on Mr. Vincent Furnier and Mr. Brian Warner. They have written and published extensively on some very disturbing topics, including drug use, violence against women, violence in families, violence in general, sexual devience, and school bombings. These are the sort of psychopaths that shouldn't be allowed to roam the streets freely.
Given the social climate, and the impressionable minds that such writings might reach, I think it better if they were arrested as soon as possible. Who knows how much of a following they might be able to generate, or what horrendous acts such followers might carry out?
Please, if you see either of these men, let your local authorities know right away.
You should also know that they frequently travel under the aliases Alice Cooper and Marilyn Manson.
"Hey, the third matrix movie would have been good except for the plot,story, and acting." --AC
This is why
Thomas Galvin
Actually, yes, it does. The value of a free society is higher than the value of a few lives, believe it or not, otherwise our founders would never have gone to war for it.
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson
It's reactionist crap like your post that lead to the "Nanny State" as some call it but worse, it is exactly those things that start us down the path of a police state.
It is NOT inappropriate to involve the kid's parents and the school administration. It is EXTREMELY inappropriate to arrest him and charge him with a crime.
All this is going to do is teach the kid that freedom of speech doesn't really exist.
We are the fire that lights our world.. and we are the fire that consumes it.
That is interesting. I basically just go on the assumption that everyone is a fuckin nut job. I know I am.
I think the problem is that you assume 'fuckin nut job' is a bad thing. You shouldn't be so quick to judge.
It. Have "it" removed. Remember, you need to dehumanize the enemy to make it easier for the panicy masses destroy them.
If it was a Microsoft product the governmental system would have blue screened years ago.
Yes, why can't you have a dozen 13 year old wives rolling you joints while you shoot heroin in the nude with a transvestite prostitute you smuggled out of Somalia?
Cause thankfully there are laws against people like that being in my society.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-07042 6student-essay,1,6366371.story?coll=chi-news-hed
Blood sex and Booze. Drugs Drugs Drugs are fun. Stab, Stab, Stab, S...t...a...b..., poke. "So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone..., then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did." Umm, yeah, what to wright about...... I'm leaving to join the Marines and I really don't give a (obscenity) about my academics, so why does the only class that's complete Bull Shit, happen to be the only required class...enough said. The model citizen would stay around to vote in new board member to change the 4 years of English policy, but no one really stays around to vote for that kind of local crap, so whoever gets there name on the Ballet with a pretty face gets to do what the (obscenity) ever they want with local ordinance. A person is smart, but people are dumb selfish animals. We can't make rules for ourselves so we vote others to do it for us, but we can't even do that right, I meen seriously, Bush for President? And our other option was John Kerry who claimed to parktake in Vietnam Special Forces missions that haven't been declassified....(obscenity) Bull Shit. So Power Flower Super Mario. Pudge, hook, rot, dismember "Fresh Meat." Mostly new/young teachers are laid back, and cooperative with students as feedback and input into the curriculum and atmosphere. My current English teacher is a control freak intent on setting a gap between herself and her students like a 63 year old white male fortune 500 company CEO, and a illegal immigrant. If CG was a private catholic school, I could understand, but wtf is her problem. And baking brownies and rice crispies does not make up for it, way to try and justify yourself as a good teacher while underhandedly looking for complements on your cooking. No quarrel on you qualifications as a writer, but as a teacher, don't be surprised on inspiring the first cg shooting.
Authors Note: This production of writing is done in the most accurate manner I can depict of the original writing. Grammar and spelling mistakes are included at the best accuracy possible. The first phrase in questions is in fact a Green Day song. The second reference to drugs is in relation to the schools history of drug problems. I am personally clean of all controlled substances. The statement in quotes is done so as a non personal statement as I would have done in reference to a character for a story. The reference to the gun P90 is from a video game, combined with a reference to necrophilia as a comment regarding a seriously messed up situation. A situation such as the rape of villagers during a raid by U.S. troops in Vietnam. I really do not care too much about by continuing academia as in relation to grades. I do however believe on continuing my personal education, and I am actually still working for my classes. My views on the graduation requirements explain themselves. The reference to Mario and Pudge( a DOTA character) are completely random as is this essay. The reference to a person being smart and people being dumb is based on a quote from "Men in Black." I generally do believe the public opinion is best. The rest of the essay is rather self explanatory, the main statement in question I have already released a comment online about. I request that all information I have released is read together, and nothing given separately or as an excerpt as the administration has seen fit to do.
On an additional note, I have completed the MEPS (Military Entry Processing Station) examinations, and yes a psychiatric evaluation is included in the process. If I'm qualified to defend the country, I believe I'm qualified to attend school.
Man, why you gotta dis my lifestyle?
OK. It remind me of the hate law in the EU. People were screaming that such things would not happen in the US, censorship, calling blood on the EU.
And now I elarn today that you can be arrested if you write something which is troubling somebody, and promptly a 18 old was arrested for doing so.
So... Who is the more fucked up ? One country which arrest people which want to cremate/kill/genocide other folk, or police which arrest student for writing an essay calling for killing having sex with body and drug ?
Sound as bad each other IMHO. At least here in Europe we do not have the ILLUSION of having free speech, whereas on the other side of the atlantic, beside free speech being written on a piece of paper, you are as bad or as good off as us...
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Basically the dude was aiming to piss his teacher off apparently, from the content. I suppose a case could be made that the last line was a threat. Either way - guess it worked. Teacher was pissed - right?
2 6student-essay,1,6366371.story?coll=chi-news-hed
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0704
Blood sex and Booze. Drugs Drugs Drugs are fun. Stab, Stab, Stab, S...t...a...b..., poke. "So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P90s and started shooting everyone..., then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did." Umm, yeah, what to wright about...... I'm leaving to join the Marines and I really don't give a (obscenity) about my academics, so why does the only class that's complete Bull Shit, happen to be the only required class...enough said. The model citizen would stay around to vote in new board member to change the 4 years of English policy, but no one really stays around to vote for that kind of local crap, so whoever gets there name on the Ballet with a pretty face gets to do what the (obscenity) ever they want with local ordinance. A person is smart, but people are dumb selfish animals. We can't make rules for ourselves so we vote others to do it for us, but we can't even do that right, I meen seriously, Bush for President? And our other option was John Kerry who claimed to parktake in Vietnam Special Forces missions that haven't been declassified....(obscenity) Bull Shit. So Power Flower Super Mario. Pudge, hook, rot, dismember "Fresh Meat." Mostly new/young teachers are laid back, and cooperative with students as feedback and input into the curriculum and atmosphere. My current English teacher is a control freak intent on setting a gap between herself and her students like a 63 year old white male fortune 500 company CEO, and a illegal immigrant. If CG was a private catholic school, I could understand, but wtf is her problem. And baking brownies and rice crispies does not make up for it, way to try and justify yourself as a good teacher while underhandedly looking for complements on your cooking. No quarrel on you qualifications as a writer, but as a teacher, don't be surprised on inspiring the first cg shooting.
(The following is Lee's explanation of the essay above, given to the media by his lawyer.)
Authors Note: This production of writing is done in the most accurate manner I can depict of the original writing. Grammar and spelling mistakes are included at the best accuracy possible. The first phrase in questions is in fact a Green Day song. The second reference to drugs is in relation to the schools history of drug problems. I am personally clean of all controlled substances. The statement in quotes is done so as a non personal statement as I would have done in reference to a character for a story. The reference to the gun P90 is from a video game, combined with a reference to necrophilia as a comment regarding a seriously messed up situation. A situation such as the rape of villagers during a raid by U.S. troops in Vietnam. I really do not care too much about by continuing academia as in relation to grades. I do however believe on continuing my personal education, and I am actually still working for my classes. My views on the graduation requirements explain themselves. The reference to Mario and Pudge( a DOTA character) are completely random as is this essay. The reference to a person being smart and people being dumb is based on a quote from "Men in Black." I generally do believe the public opinion is best. The rest of the essay is rather self explanatory, the main statement in question I have already released a comment online about. I request that all information I have released is read together, and nothing given separately or as an excerpt as the administration has seen fit to do.
On an additional note, I have completed the MEPS (Military Entry Processing Station) examinations, and yes a psychiatric evaluation is included in the process. If I'm qualified to defend the country, I believe I'm qualified to attend school.
I wasn't angry. I certainly was antagonistic, but it was in response to baseless antagonism (not yours, the gp's).
My points were not easily extended to his points. His points were about restricting behavior that harms other people. My points, I think quite obviously, were about restricting behavior that doesn't harm other people.
And remember, when I wrote that post I had no idea it would be modded, so I didn't enumerate everything in mind-numbing detail.
In fact, though, you are often better off saying something controversial and then refining it. How many people would have read that post if it were five pages long listing all of the do's & don't's of my personal political beliefs? But if you say something punchy, you get people's attention and have the opportunity to refine it.
On your first point of who you can marry (this comes from wikipedia)" Massachusetts has recognized same-sex marriage since 2004. Connecticut, Vermont, New Jersey and California have created legal unions that, while not called marriages, are explicitly defined as offering all the rights and responsibilities of marriage under state law to same-sex couples. Maine, Hawaii, the District of Columbia, and Washington have created legal unions for same-sex couples that offer varying subsets of the rights and responsibilities of marriage under the laws of those jurisdictions."
;) talk more on that later.
The united states are not stopping you from same sex marriage your state is.
On your second point the coca plant can make cocain so your saying it should be un regulated. Now your probably talking about marijuana, this is highly debatable topic. marijuana is thought be used for medical treatment, but it is also a drug. Drugs in general have to go through testing and FDA approval before they can be sold. Now there are alot of people that will not alow that to happen but i'll talk more on this point later.
on your third point I'm assuming this is directly related to point 2 so I'm guessing you like some substance that comes from plants
On your third point of dress, I have seen some skimpy dress so I wouldn't say its a matter of how you dress unless its your work or your school which you have the freedom to quit and go somewhere else. Now to if you should wear cloths at all. It is true that you could get a fine or worse if you go naked down the street. This is because as well as your own freedom other people shouldn't have to suffer from seing your naked body go down the street. As well as being a free country the US is also a country based on religion(though religion and state shouldn't be mixed they are) and it is known that this should be wrong. I'll get more to this later as well when I talk about freedom and country.
Onto point five this like your first point is actually legal in some countys of Nevada. Meaning its not a US thing its a state thing. In Rhode Island it is not illegal to take money for sex as long as its not solicitated at a brothel or on the street(taken from wiki as well). So this point is invalid when stating the country wouldn't let you do that. Your state just follows the norm.
As for your last point on travel, theres not much I can say there. Your country is arguing with theirs so they won't let you go directly. On that note they aren't going to arrest you if you have traveled there and came back. They won't deny you to go to cuba you just can't leave from the US to get there. It is completely legal for you(if your an american well or anybody) to go to Cuba. Also you may be permited to go to cuba is you have a special license that you obtain. As far as I know(I only know of cuba) this is the case with most countries.
Now onto my point of freedom. Freedom is a term used with the united states I'm going to break everything that I have said and say that the United States is not a free country. No country is completly free. Free of rules laws that would be just crazy. Your free to talk about those rules and laws. To bring them to your government and get them changed. You want to walk around naked take it up with your congresmen. Tell them I believe that I am being injusticed by this. This is how laws are made in the states. You can run for congres you can vote differently in the next election. The truth is though your country is as free as the person beside you lets it be. A country can't have a rule that will hard its population thats just not sane. If the majority disagree whole heartily about something it will most likely eventually be changed. If you country was not free in the term that its used in. There would be no avenue for change except revolution, which by the constitution it seems to be an option as well. The truth is that you need to have people in government that understands the people and that is usually
I don't think any government bigger than a community government should restrict anything that doesn't harm anyone (or have potential for very significant harm... building a nuke in your garage doesn't harm anyone, but the potential's pretty significant). I don't think any government, period, should restrict anything that happens inside your home, with the same caveat as above.
So you're still not letting people do what they want, if you're stopping them from building a nuke in their basement. You're still drawing a line, saying "you can do this, but you can't do that".
So you agree that certain actions should not be allowed. You can no longer argue that people should be free to do what they want, because you don't want to allow that. You're basically back to arguing for each individual action whether it should or should not be allowed.
Several of your original examples easily fall under your "potential for very significant harm". It is only if you do not bother to follow the larger consequences of actions on a societal level that you would not see that.
SILENCE! I concur!
Ok, this is the essay in question.
The wise follow a damned path, for to know is to be forsaken.
Stephen King perspective on Mr Cho's writings:
....
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20036014,00.html
Basically, what someone writes says little about their state of mind.
I agree 100% with Mr King and add that many people write in order to understand why people do the things they do. They want to see things through their eyes and live through the experiences that lead up to a "nut job end" so that ultimately they can become better more compassionate human beings or better able to see the warning signs when people start to get lost or just to form their own opinions instead of parroting the reaction they're "supposed to have".
The last thing we need to do is to discourage this sort of wisdom seeking. The world is already too full of superficial reactionaries that mindlessly see the world through safe "society approved"[TM] labels like "nut job", "terrorist", "communist", "capitalist", "fanatic", "cultist",
I wrote many very disturbing things in high school, because that was my favorite style (think Tarantino meets Douglas Adams). And I was bored off my ass... completely, by a school that was far more into "discipline" and sports than education. I graduated before Columbine, but my younger brother attending that school the year after was told not to wear his trenchcoat (in freezing weather) by school staff, etc... I wore one for my last two years, frequently, without incident other than the occaisional compliment. When I wrote things that sufficiently weirded out teachers, I'd end up in the counselor's office (not with the damn police) and sometimes they'd recommend my parents take me to a phsycologist for evaluation (did once, doc said I was smart and bored).
As far as emotion and mental stability are concerned, I'm probably way ahead of 99% of humans... as laid back as can be. Figuring out which kids might go apeshit in school takes a lot more than reading their creative assignments. Unfortunately, right after Columbine, and continuously since then, it seems that school administrators are doing the exact opposite of what they need to to prevent such occurances. Someone with emotional issues who is prevented from expressing in his or her dress, writing, art, speech... well, they're going to feel more and more trapped. For those who can't look ahead to their futures and see the big picture (some huge percentage of everyone), these types of restrictions, and responses like that of this school will. directly. cause. more tragedy. Unfortunately, with school funding what it is, hiring intelligent, qualified people who get it is a bit difficult, so I only expect to see more and more such idiocy.
If you're an outsider and nerd in high school now and reading this, I can say this though: In college, and moreso even in the real world thereafter, you're gonna be doing much better than the rest... just zoom out your perspective some and you'll see this is a minor (albeit ridiculously frustrating) temporary inconvenience.
But you can... just look towards Africa. There are places in Africa where you can do ANYTHING you want as long as you can back it up.
I have never seen such a truckload of bullshit wasting a sheet of paper. Perhaps they shouldn't arrest him for conspiracy, but he sure deserves severe punishment for maiming the harmless English language and spitting out such crazy rantings. When someone said the new enemy would be essays I was afraid literature would suffer, but this text is to literature what you singing in the bathroom is to opera. ;-)
Now seriously: How come this guy is a Straight-A student???? I am afraid the average level of intelligence has dropped dramatically there in the US....
They teach some pretty disturbing things already, ever read Poe? The Telltale Heart is one of the tamer things he wrote, though it's one of the most well known.
My personal favorite is The Cask of Amontillado. How f**king disturbing is that? From what I remember (I've only read it once) a guy leads his drunk so-called friend down into the deepest part of the crypts during Carnival, chains him to the wall and proceeds to build a wall around him while the guy has recovered from his drunken stupor and is screaming his head off... Yeah, I read that in school.
Is that ok because it's set in Italy? Hell, there's really not a whole lot in there that places it at any particular time, it could be present day with a few small changes.
Now, I actually can see what they were worried about if it had to do with going someplace and shooting people. But they shouldn't be jumping to conclusions, they should find out the intent of the paper, and possibly get the kid some counseling. Really, the problem here is knee jerk reactions and lack of free health care.
Imagine what could be if people who have issues (fantasizing about killing people, raping little girls and boys, etc) had easy access to free counseling. Even the cheap ones cost $50 - $75 per session, and people who end up doing these things are usually ones who can't afford much, don't have insurance, and really need the good doctors. Yeah, are some ways to get financial assistance from the government but it's extremely difficult and time consuming. Apparently the powers that be don't care about helping these people until they've gone and done something wrong. Then people have already been injured or killed. The people who did it have had a taste of it and are going to need much more serious counseling and they're in an environment which doesn't facilitate recovery. Now, not only are we paying for their counseling, we're paying for their room and board, and they're not even contributing to society (no job). Oh, and I almost forgot: there's always the death penalty instead of counseling, perhaps TPTB like killing people instead of trying to fix the problem (that's what I used to do in Sim City when I couldn't pay for fire departments, just bulldoze all the surrounding stuff and the fire won't spread).
Yeah, our country's system sucks.
I seriously doubt anyone in the US is in grave danger of having too much freedom.
I'm in between insightful sigs right now...
There certainly are copies of the Bible and other religious texts in public school libraries. Sorry to burst your "I'm a poor oppressed religionist" bubble.
Blar.
It could work the other way, too - a very religious student writes an essay bringing God into an issue, and the teacher is a militant atheist who is offended and has the student arrested. In today's climate, I could see either happening./p
This is hilarious!!!! So he got arrested over this? Come on now... When I was a kid I wrote a pretty dark piece in my English class and was praised for my use of metaphor and vivid imagery. They didn't call the cops on me or send me to see the school shrink for a heart to heart. They took my piece for what it was. This essay was just him venting. If they think this is bad they'd most likely die of fright if they were able to read the REAL thoughts of the students. For the most part I feel this kids essay was a critique of his school and society. Nothing here should be raising any red flags. The stuff he put to paper is the same stuff kids say when they talk to each other. This poor kid has learned that when someone asks him to be open it really means "only say nice things." How pathetic.
Maybe the Grammar Police arrested him. :D
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
Outside of the "13 year old" and the "smuggled out" part, I don't really have a problem with any of the above, actually. What's wrong with having a dozen partners? What's wrong with rolling joints? What's wrong with shooting heroin (in a criminal sense, not as a medical condition that should be treated)? What's wrong with being in a nude? What's wrong with transvestites? What's wrong with prostitution, as long as it's voluntarily and nobody's forced to do anything they don't want to do (if people *are*, that's bad, of course, but in that case, it's bad no matter whether what they're forced to do is prostitute themselves or something else). And finally, what's wrong with people from Somalia?
As long as everyone involved is an adult and as long as everything's done with the informed consent of everyone involved, I frankly don't see why you should have a right to dictate what others can or can't do. I assume, based on your nickname, that you enjoy coffee. I'm also going to guess (without any basis) that you're heterosexual and not celibate (or that you wouldn't be if you had a girlfriend in case you don't have one). How would you feel if I came along and told you that in "my society", doing depraved things like drinking coffee and having missionary-style sex with your girlfriend are (or, at the very least, should be) illegal? Wouldn't you feel that this is an intrusion into your private matters - that as long as your girlfriend wants to have sex with you, there's no reason why the two of you shouldn't, and that whether you drink coffee or not is noone's business but your own?
Maybe you think that that's not the same, but if you do, you couldn't be more wrong. Freedom is always the freedom of others.
butter the donkey
Who cares about law enforcement? The question is whether he's broken any laws and, the last I heard, writing something disturbing isn't illegal. This is just a bunch of panicky idiots overreacting like they always do. God help us, the morons are running the place.
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
Assuming the post a bit above yours was actually the real essay, the kid already said he was joining the marines! I say "problem solved", if there was even a problem to begin with. If he really is a psychopath he'll be a war hero sooner or later. If not, he'll get his chance at the stab, shoot, kill game and then he'll find out whether he really enjoys it or not. Chances are he'll piss his pants and cower behind the nearest cover, but time will tell. Either way, I doubt a psychologist would deem him mentally unstable or unfit to own a weapon, and I don't think he really wrote enough to even warrant informing anybody, although I suppose the parents should have the opportunity to know about and read the essay.
SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
Ok, this is the essay in question.
Could have been worse.... It might have mentioned ZOMBIES!
-- 3 events that reshaped the world in the 20th century: WW1, WW2, and WWW
I hope he wins this. If he doesn't this sets a bad precedent about free speech.
Secondly I hope he is reimbursed for damages. Those being the his time wasted fighting this, cost of a lawyer, and lastly defamation of character.
I think the schools are taking a completely wrong approach to solve the problems they're having with school shootings, etc. They're basically censoring anything they don't like now as if that'll solve the problem. The same thing goes for the school that banned wikipedia. This is only limiting the students instead of teaching them to use resources wisely and express themselves.
"To be is to do." --Socrates
"To do is to be." -- Aristotle
"Do-Be-Do-Be-Do..." --Sinatra