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Would You Install Pirated Software at Work?

An anonymous reader asks: "I am an IT professional, and due to budget constraints, I have been told to install multiple copies of MS Office, despite offering to install OpenOffice, and other OpenSource Office products. Even though most of the uses are for people using Excel like a database, or formatting of text in cells, other programs are not tolerated. I have been over ruled by our controller, to my disagreement. I would never turn them in, but I am in tough place by knowing doing something illegal. I want to keep my job, but disagree with some of the decision making on this issue. Other than drafting a letter to the owners of the company on how I disagree with the policy, what else can I do?"

150 of 848 comments (clear)

  1. Just watch your back by AmIAnAi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You must ask yourself: if they're willing to overrule you and insist you commit an illegal act, how are they going to behave should this come to the attention of FAST (or other enforcement body)? My guess is they will dump it all on your shoulders. If they don't play by the rules now, they certainly will not start when their backs are against the wall.

    I suggest you document everything, off site and get your CV circulated immediately.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.
    1. Re:Just watch your back by Pinkfud · · Score: 2, Funny

      Considering that I work for the US Government, no. Beyond that, I agree with your reply.

      --
      The world is my oyster. That's why it's always in a stew.
    2. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I suggest you document everything, off site and get your CV circulated immediately.

      That's the only sensible course of action here, but I would add: do NOT do something illegal on behalf of your employer, ever, even if means quitting on the spot. No job is worth the hit you will personally take when it comes out. "I was just following orders" doesn't cut much ice with the military when lives are on the line, and will cut absolutely none if you knowingly broke the law just to make money for your employer. The fact that you documented knowingly breaking the law is going to be worth nothing in court, either.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:Just watch your back by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You work for the government and you don't think they'll dump possible licensing issues on your shoulders? No offense but that's a bit naive, the gov is MORE likely to do that than your average company, not less, as has been shown by the large number of times a low level person in the government is fired for one of the big timer's mistakes. If I were you I'd get those documents in triplicate in different places...

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    4. Re:Just watch your back by cliffski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      why would he have to quit? Just don't do it. What is the worst that can happen? they fire you? I don't know US law but in the UK, that would be clear cut unfair dismissal and they could be severely punished by the courts. I doubt you are a union member, but if you are, this is the kind of thing you would have them handle.
      It amazes me that execs in companies can be such thieving bastards, even in companies that themselves make software. If it was somehow necessary for you to quit, then I would 100% definitely report them to FAST if they went ahead anyway. In any case, it sounds like a pretty low-life employer, so your medium to long term plan should be to leave anyway.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    5. Re:Just watch your back by Mistlefoot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What would you do if your boss asked you to burn a cd full of mp3's he downloaded via peer to peer?

      I'm really not trying to troll here........and I really do believe that:

      1) Pirating software for home use is minor
      2) Pirating software for a business (or for the purpose of making money FROM that software) is not so minor

      But really, you have mentioned "most of the uses are for people using Excel like a database, or formatting of text in cells".

      I suppose if you answer the initial question I posed by burning him the CD you must then decide the moral implications yourself.

      Obviously, you need to protect your ass either way.

    6. Re:Just watch your back by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Interesting

      if they're willing to overrule you and insist you commit an illegal act

      I wasn't aware that installing multiple copies of Office in excess of the number that you've licensed was illegal. It's definitely a violation of the software license, but illegal? I have a hard time seeing criminal charges result from something like this.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    7. Re:Just watch your back by tehwebguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wouldn't he be legally responsible for taking that action, even if he were ordered to do so?

      --
      -- lol pwned
    8. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Informative

      why would he have to quit?

      I did say "even if" it means quitting on the spot. That may well be the outcome, when Mr Executive says "Well, either you follow our instructions or we let you go."

      I don't know US law but in the UK, that would be clear cut unfair dismissal and they could be severely punished by the courts.

      US employment law is completely different to that in the UK. In particular, IIRC most US states are still "at will" states, where either party may terminate an employment contract without notice, and for any reason not explicitly prohibited (e.g., by anti-discrimination legislation).

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    9. Re:Just watch your back by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      if you make copys that you are not licensed to make and you can't justify them under fair use (unlikely in this situation) you are infringing copyright in most of the world there are both civial and criminal penalties that can be brought though the criminal ones tend to have some minimum level of infringement and don't tend to be used as much (in lots of places only the government can bring criminal charges and unless you are blatently selling pirate software they are unlikely to do so).

      but attempts to hold you liable for damages and/or foist the blame on you thereby destorying your reputation are very likely as part of a coverup.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    10. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally, I wouldn't burn the CDs either. For one thing, I think the basic premise of copyright is a reasonable, practical idea and I don't consider ripping the fruits of others' labours without compensation to have any sort of moral or ethical basis. For another, even if it were a "minor" crime in isolation, committing it under those circumstances would not just be breaking the law, but doing so for personal profit (if it's part of the job for which I am being paid), which as far as I'm concerned makes it not minor at all.

      I think you're confusing me with another poster on some of your comment, BTW.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    11. Re:Just watch your back by shark72 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The threshold for criminal infringement is pretty low -- just $1,000 worth of stuff within 180 days. If he's being asked to install Office Professional 2007, he'd hit that (well... $999.90) with two installations.

      But to your point -- I believe the common threshold for actual prosecution is much higher... in the five figure range. Bigger fish, and all that.

      --
      Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
    12. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes.

      It is your responsibility to disobey illegal orders.

    13. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think you're confusing me with another poster on some of your comment, BTW. Probably me. We do have similar names.
    14. Re:Just watch your back by tverbeek · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even in states with "at will" employment, you might still have some legal recourse with a "wrongful termination" suit in a situation like this. You won't get your job back, but you might get some other court-imposed judgment out of them (i.e. cash).

      As in so many Ask Slashdots, the answer to this one includes the instruction, "Consult an attorney". The OP needs to find out what his legal rights are in his jurisdiction. In the meantime, document this situation clearly: Put your objections into a memo, addressed to everyone up the chain of command, and request the instructions to install unlicensed software in writing. Following Orders With Objection puts you in a better position than Just Following Orders.

      In case you haven't already pursued this, try to find someone in executive management who is willing to listen to you. Talk to the Legal department or the company's counsel. The senior execs will probably never listen to you (mine never have), but they might listen to someone else in management. This is the approach I took in my first job out of college, where the entire corporate office was being run on a single retail copy of Lotus 123 and WordPerfect, and POs for new computers would come back from Purchasing with the software line-items crossed out "because we already have this". Once Executive Management understood the possible consequences of this approach, I was finally allowed to buy software with all new PCs, and eventually the pirated installs found their way into landfills and the company was legal.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    15. Re:Just watch your back by SEE · · Score: 3, Informative
      Installing multiple copies of Office without a license constitutes copyright infringement, as you are making copies of a copyrighted work (Office) without permission of the copyright holder.

      Now, let's look at the law regarding copyright infringement:

      U.S. Code, Title 17, Section 506:

      (a) Criminal Infringement. - Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either -

      (1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or

      (2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000,

      shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United States Code.


      US Code, Title 18, section 2319:

      (a) Whoever violates section 506 (a) (relating to criminal offenses) of title 17 shall be punished as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section and such penalties shall be in addition to any other provisions of title 17 or any other law.
      (b) Any person who commits an offense under section 506 (a)(1) of title 17--
      (1) shall be imprisoned not more than 5 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense consists of the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of at least 10 copies or phonorecords, of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $2,500;
      (2) shall be imprisoned not more than 10 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense is a second or subsequent offense under paragraph (1); and
      (3) shall be imprisoned not more than 1 year, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, in any other case.

      (c) Any person who commits an offense under section 506 (a)(2) of title 17, United States Code--
      (1) shall be imprisoned not more than 3 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense consists of the reproduction or distribution of 10 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of $2,500 or more;
      (2) shall be imprisoned not more than 6 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense is a second or subsequent offense under paragraph (1); and
      (3) shall be imprisoned not more than 1 year, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense consists of the reproduction or distribution of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000.
    16. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      ok sheridan

    17. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You should look for better legal advice - under BC Human Rights legistlation, you cannot fired/discriminated against due to family status. Look into filing a Huamn Rights Complaint (you can even do so without a lawyer).

      www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/stat/H/96210_01.htm#secti on13 ... section that applies

      www.bchrt.bc.ca - BC Human Rights Tribunal ... contact info

    18. Re:Just watch your back by ibi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You seemed to have missed the point somewhat. They are asking him to commit a crime. An employer can not ask you to do that, and fire you when you refuse. If they did, you would have the option of going to court and suing for wrongful termination, but its probably not worth the effort. So you are right in some respects, but you still have legal recourse in this situation. So I'm curious (not really knowing) as to what the reality is. Is the reality

      1) "They'll fire your ass for insubordination and if you complain about it they'll bury you. Sure you can, in theory, sue them for "wrongful termination" but you'll probably never get another job in the US if you do. And they have more money than you do, so they'll likely win in court, anyway"

      Or is it

      2) "If you refuse the illegal order and they fire you, you'll be fine. Most companies actually try to follow the law and expect their employees to, also. They'd be happy to hire someone who draws the line at violating the law when ordered to by a superior. And the court will frown on a company retaliating on a law-abiding employee and will compensate you accordingly."

      I've been lucky enough (and picked my employers carefully enough, perhaps :-) to never have to find out. But reading the WSJ suggests that maybe #1 is closer to reality than #2. But I don't really know. I imagine the OP would like to know for sure before he makes his next move ....

      And don't discount the value of doing what's right for right's sake. There's a lot to be said for maintaining personal integrity simply because it's part of who you are (to yourself even if no one else acknowledges it) ...
    19. Re:Just watch your back by mysidia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Talk to the Legal department or the company's counsel. The senior execs will probably never listen to you (mine never have), but they might listen to someone else in management.

      I would suggest Legal department/counsel, if your company has one, is where you should be going if you are concerned with legal ramifications -- that's their job, they are the ones paid to determine what is and isn't the best legal way to proceed.

      Installing multiple copies of Office is not illegal, but copyright infringment is, and it's up to the lawyers to sort out what can and cannot be done, to minimize liability.

      And they may know things you don't know, like special super-secret deals the company may have signed out with software vendors, that you're not privvy to or allowed to know about.

      If the lawyers who specialize in the law and representing the company say it's OK and sign their name to it, then you have to take their word on the matter, even if you personally disagree -- it's their a** on the line, not yours.

    20. Re:Just watch your back by seebs · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not all illegal acts are criminal. Junk faxes aren't criminal, but they're illegal and expose the senders to liability. Mmm, tasty liability.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    21. Re:Just watch your back by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 2, Interesting

      An employer can not ask you to do that, and fire you when you refuse.

      Employers have a lot of ways to terminate an employee though. A buddy of mine was terminated because he was not "flexible" enough for the team. Odd thing is that his last performance review listed one of his strengths as being "flexible". He was terminated because he disagreed with how the company did their bidding process for a mapping project. He provided time estimates for paper to digital conversion and management cut the time to win the work. Problem is that he'd be blamed later when things weren't being completed on time. All the HR department needed to do was write a reasonable explanation in the employee file and it becomes very difficult to go after the employer.

      I certainly don't know this guys complete situation (finances, job industry in his area, family issues, etc...) but I'd contact BSA, start looking for a new employer, and cooperate in the investigation. Between the time of the report to BSA and the time period where the employer could comfortably terminate me, I'm pretty confident I'd have a new job.

    22. Re:Just watch your back by Genocaust · · Score: 3, Informative

      Being "ordered to" stands no ground in the military (I'm currently enlisted) if it is an illegal directive. I'm sure the civilian world holds quite true. My contract and enlistment oath says I swore to "obey all LAWFUL orders", and they're quite quick to fry anybody woh does something illegal with the cop-out "but I was ordered to...."

      --
      It could be that the only purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.
    23. Re:Just watch your back by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the only sensible course of action here, but I would add: do NOT do something illegal on behalf of your employer

      Ditto. An old boss of mine was a bit of a bully, and one day he called me into a private meeting and asked me to break into an ex-employee's server to see if they'd copied any of our code (it was actually quite likely). I told him point blank that I wouldn't be doing it and suggested he talk to a solicitor about the suspected copyright infringement. His response? "Oh. Um, okay." It's the quickest I ever saw him back down on anything by miles.

      The thing is, they already know they are in the wrong and are sticking their neck out by asking you to do it. It would take a real psychopath to attempt to force you into it after you refuse. Normal people, even nightmare bosses, are going to back down immediately.

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
    24. Re:Just watch your back by module0000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nope. If directly ordered by a employing corporation, you fall under
      corporate immunity. Contractors need not apply.

      --
      Trackball users will be first against the wall.
    25. Re:Just watch your back by module0000 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Funny you should mention that. And the answer is yes, it would fall under corporate immunity.
      However, they would argue a gross lapse of common sense, and probably still find a way to charge you.
      Google for "murder & corporate immunity" to hear about fun cases where that exact same thing has happened.

      --
      Trackball users will be first against the wall.
    26. Re:Just watch your back by jonom · · Score: 2, Funny

      Worked for Oliver North.

    27. Re:Just watch your back by sethawoolley · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ollie was under the assumption that it was a legal act. They were under the presumption they had found a loophole in the law. Debate that as much as you want, but that's the context.

    28. Re:Just watch your back by lpcustom · · Score: 3, Informative

      http://jobsearchtech.about.com/cs/labor_laws/a/whi stle_blower.htm You would be held liable if you performed the illegal act(even if it's an order), but you are protected by law if you tell on the company for it's illegal activity.

      --
      Beer! It's what's for breakfast!
    29. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Captain John Sheridan: May I have your attention please. In the last few hours, we have learned that warships are coming this way from Earth. Their orders are to seize command of Babylon 5 by force. As commanding officer and military governor of Babylon 5, I cannot allow this to happen. President Clark has violated the Earth Alliance Constitution: by dissolving the Senate, declaring martial law, and *personally* ordering the bombing of civilian targets on the Mars colony. He is *personally* responsible for the deaths of hundreds of innocent people. Following these attacks, Orion 7 and Proxima 3 have broken away from the Earth Alliance, and declared independence. Babylon 5 now joins with them. As of this moment, Babylon 5 is seceding from the Earth Alliance. We will remain an independent state till President Clark is removed from office. At the end of this current crisis, anyone who wishes to leave for Earth is free to do so. Meanwhile for your own safety, I urge everyone to stay in your quarters until this is over. That is all.

    30. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I worked as an IT manager in a Government Agency... My section manager insisted in using unlicensed software. I refused, and lost my job. At least I have a better job now, but it was a bitter experience. Mind you, I would do it all again instead of just giving in.

    31. Re:Just watch your back by jhylkema · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My contract and enlistment oath says I swore to "obey all LAWFUL orders", and they're quite quick to fry anybody woh does something illegal with the cop-out "but I was ordered to...."

      Think so, huh? Wonder what 1LT Ehren Watada has to say about that.

      Besides, the Nuremberg Doctrine is a shining example of victor's (so-called) justice. The Allies knew right, good and well that "but I was refusing an illegal order" would have gotten nowhere. "That's nice, private. Would you like a blindfold? A cigarette? Do you have any last words?" Watada's situation is proof positive of that.

      I have karma to burn, so fire away, wingnut mods.

    32. Re:Just watch your back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Simple: Bring your lawyer in on a meeting. Refuse to do anything that is illegal with your lawyer present.

      If they get somebody else to do it, fine - not your problem. If they punish you for not doing it (i.e. letting you go), sue them for punishing you for refusing to obey an illegal demand. They will rather settle, than go in front of a jury AND risk attracting unwanted attention from BSA and the likes.

    33. Re:Just watch your back by rgravina · · Score: 2, Informative

      It comes from Babylon 5. Sheridan was ordered to fire on civilain ships by a corrupt government, and he disobeyed the order - and encouraged others to do so - feeling that it was his duty to do what he felt was right, not what he was told.

    34. Re:Just watch your back by Unnamed+Chickenheart · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, it for sure wasn't me!

      --
      urd
    35. Re:Just watch your back by JhohannaVH · · Score: 2

      ***applause***

      Damnit... this seriously needs to be brought back on television. UniversalHD has a glut of programming repetition, it would be a perfect fit!

      --
      Sorry man... the Internet pooped on me.
    36. Re:Just watch your back by coredog64 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Watada doesn't have the standing to question the legality of his order. It would be a different kettle of fish if it was someone on the JCS. If Watada had been ordered to gun down 27 unarmed teenagers and then bulldoze their bodies into a grave, then yeah, he's got a leg to stand on.

    37. Re:Just watch your back by Naruki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, Anonymous Coward, if that is your real name...

      Why did you criticize his actions but, from your wealth of superior knowledge, refuse to offer the correct procedure for this person to follow?

  2. Ask Slashdot: How do I act on principle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Slashdot, I have a set of principles that I adhere to rigorously. Today, I have been presented with something that violates my principles. What should I do?

    Answer, you have a choice: Grow some balls or a spine. Really, either will do.

  3. Blow the whistle or quit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The minute you install the pirated software, you have no moral leg to stand on. You either stick to your guns or you leave. The "I did it because it was my job to do it" defense has been tried (literally) and failed.

    1. Re:Blow the whistle or quit by mattatwork · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You mean the good ol' Nuremberg defense ( "Befehl ist Befehl" or "only following orders").... Very few who used that defense survived the trials and those that did claimed that if they didn't follow orders they would have been killed.... I doubt that's what the case here is.... Typically if you want to blow the whistle, you have to do so before committing the questionable/illegal act to maintain any kind of credibility. I say delay installing the software and look for another job. Turning them in may be a major headache depending on how your company handles human resource related issues and how your superiors handle subordinates going above them in the chain of command to point out their improper act(s)/behavior/orders....

      --
      I've refrained from profanity, racial/ethnic epitaphs and am 5'11" - how can I be ranked as troll?
    2. Re:Blow the whistle or quit by QuantumRiff · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And when you file for unemployment, and they deny your claim at first because your left voluntarily, and then you file paperwork in response that you left under duress after being ordered by a superior to do something against the law, stuff gets interesting!

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    3. Re:Blow the whistle or quit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nothing at all will happen to the employer as a result of a statement in the unemployment file concerning illegal or unethical pressures. This is usually written off as "disgruntled employee" and it goes no further. Your options here are really all or nothing. Go to the authorities or be a part of it.

    4. Re:Blow the whistle or quit by iminplaya · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Befehl ist Befehl" or "only following orders"

      I don't speak any German, but doesn't that literally mean "Orders are orders"? Anyway, I don't believe in turning people in for property crimes given their vengeful nature on both sides of the law, and I wouldn't want to put myself in the line of fire, having to testify, have my personal things torn up, possibly losing my own computer at home even, for "discovery", etc. And even more so, I don't want to be labeled as a snitch. I would be completely untrustworthy in the future, and rightfully so. Don't do anything that can be traced back to you. Look for another job, and maybe don't use that particular employer as a reference. They might get caught, and something could lead back to you, even if they are outright lies. Our system has turned honesty into a liability. When dealing with the authorities, always do so anonymously.

      --
      What?
  4. Which is the lesser of two evils? by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 3, Insightful
    You have to chose between the lesser of two evils. Go against your bosses wishes, or go against the law.

    To me, the decision is clear-cut.

    1. Re:Which is the lesser of two evils? by arivanov · · Score: 4, Funny

      Which country?

      Western Europe, USA, Japan - decision is indeed clear cut as they will blame you for it anyway. It is solely a question of who does it first.

      Eastern Europe, Russia, China - you have a WHOLE ONE LEGAL COPY OF OFFICE? Who is the out of his mind person to buy it.

      So it is all relative... Same as Microsoft policy to enforcing piracy. I have seen them turn a blind eye too many once you get far enough east. After all, as with all crack dealers - the first dose of is free.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  5. Professional by 26199 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any actual profession... and as much as IT/programming may claim to be one, it isn't really one yet... has a code of conduct that says quite clearly what you need to do. You can't be a professional and knowingly support illegal activity.

    1. Re:Professional by sconeu · · Score: 4, Informative

      You mean like the ACM Code of Ethics?

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Professional by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 2, Informative

      IT professionals have a very reasonable code of ethics, thank you very much.

      http://lopsa.org/CodeOfEthics

    3. Re:Professional by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the idea is a true professional doesn't support illegal activity on the jobsite, or related to his career. Cannabis has nothing at all to do with software engineering, just like vacation travel to Cuba (also stupidly illegal) has nothing to do with software engineering. Stances on political issues (which these are) really have no bearing on your profession. Knowingly violating copyrights and licenses, however, has a direct bearing on your profession, and is not something a good professional would do (regardless of his feelings on the issue). This doesn't mean he couldn't be against the current copyright laws, and write to his political representatives in order to have the laws changed, but while those laws are in force, he needs to abide by them in the course of his professional duties.

    4. Re:Professional by Glonoinha · · Score: 4, Funny

      He forgot a few :
      I will not be a camper or AWP-whore.
      I will not spawn-kill.
      I will not kill-steal or ninja-loot or intentionally train-to-zone.
      I will immediately delete any porn I find that involves obviously underage participants, and then go wash my eyes out with soap.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    5. Re:Professional by honkycat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think it's professional in the sense that a professional engineer is obligated to work within the legal environment pertaining to his line of work. For a civil engineer, this means complying with building codes. For a software engineer, it means working within the copyright/patent laws. In both cases, it might be expedient to ignore the rules -- if they only made the engineer's job easier, they wouldn't have to be legislated. Ignoring the rules for expediency is simply unprofessional.

      It is unprofessional even if you have a political or moral reason for the decision. If you can't do a job within the confines of the law, either the job can't be done or the law should be changed. Looking the other way is, again, expedient, but ultimately works to everyone's detriment because the underlying problem never gets fixed.

    6. Re:Professional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are codes of ethics and conduct in the profession. IEEE's code and ACM's code are out there. They do not specifically address software piracy but both condemn harming property. In this forum, it is often mentioned that this activity is not exactly theft but illicit copying. Nonetheless, I would throw software piracy into the realm of property harm in the context of the code of ethics.

      It sounds like this activity is already rampant. It is less clear if it can be pinned on you or not. Are those involved aware the licensing agreements are being violated? Are they aware of the fines for such things? Are they aware of the implications of getting caught (an IT professional could end a career, a business could go under)?

      There are people who do not care. Some people would consider this the same situation as exceeding the speed limit by 5 miles per hour. Some feel that the prices are unreasonably high for the product and choose this as a mild practice of civil disobedience.

      I do not want to sugar coat your situation, though. The IEEE regularly reports that a whistleblower is screwed. Despite all the laws and rules put into place to protect such a person, the career could end. The company may stop providing advancement and raises. The company may provide very negative references. The company may even engage in unlawful termination activity. All of this, however, is difficult to prove in court. The result would be large legal bills and no income. Read more about it:
      The whistle-blower's dilemma
      Kumagai, J.
      Spectrum, IEEE
      Volume 41, Issue 4, April 2004 Page(s): 53 - 55

      Your most pragmatic approach may be to get a new job and report them to something like BSA later. That may sound like a case of sour grapes, but there are no perfect solutions.

      Good luck with your choice: it is a matter of selecting imperfect solutions in an imperfect world.

      PS: Your work computer belongs to the company. They may already be monitoring you. As a member of IT, you may be more aware of the monitoring than others. Keep it in mind, however, because secrecy and anonymity tend to be important in these matters.

  6. Of course. by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 2, Funny

    How ELSE would I get anything done?!

    --
    I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
    1. Re:Of course. by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How ELSE would I get anything done?!

      I know you meant it as a joke, but it bears repeating. Whenever possible, I always pirate my software first, even at work (own business). The last thing I'm going to do is shell out hundreds of dollars on software that turns out to be shit.

      For those a little skeptical I even had a recent example with Winfax pro. Very glad now that I went with Snappyfax instead, instead of shelling out money for Symantec's piece of crap.

      And yes, I know that a lot of software is try before you buy, but that's a very recent development, and generally doesn't cover anything more than $50~$100 anyway.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
  7. Understand your situation. by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you don't get it in writing, should anything happen and the company be audited ... YOU will be the one blamed and fired.

    Everyone else will swear that YOU were the loose cannon. That they would NEVER violate a copyright. That they are 100% honest.

    Really. They're already asking you to violate your ethics / principles. Why would you believe that they wouldn't lie about who's idea it was?

    1. Re:Understand your situation. by cHALiTO · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Depends on where he lives/works. In some countries, most companies have lots of pirated software running in their desktops, and unless it's a big corporation from which the copyright owner/CSA can make a whole bunch of money, the worst they do is send an 'auditor', have him say something around the lines of 'you have some unlicensed stuff, here's a special offer to get yourself all legal", and insist on it. Only if the company insists on using the copies w/o paying, they will take some nasty legal action (ie suing), and the guy who actually did the install will probably not be held accountable for the worst (maybe used as a witness, and have him pay a fine, but nowhere near going to jail).

      This is so, I think, because in these countries a) actually taking something to court and especially have a resolution can take AGES, even super simple stuff, and cost a lot more than a few licenses. Plus if they start suing people around like mad, people that might have kept the pirate copies, and be subject to some nice offer on licences, will instead turn to other alternatives (I'm just speculating here, but it seems plausible), and that wouldn't be good for the copyright owner either. b) people, and many MANY companies, really can't afford the software, but actually need it to work (thanks to our friends at redmond, if you pardon my zealotry), so they pirate. And no, as much as I like to offer OpenOffice to everyone and I propose it each time I get a chance, some people need MS Office. Forcing use of legal software ar prices that are really not meant for a developing economy, will add yet another block on the road, for such an economy to improve. That's one of the reasons people aren't very fond of 'free trade' agreements with copyright protection requirements attached to them.

      --
      "Luck is my middle name," said Rincewind, indistinctly. "Mind you, my first name is Bad." -- Terry Pratchett
  8. You do know you'll be the fall guy, right? by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You should go into this knowing that, if you get caught, everyone will point the finger squarely at you. That same boss who is ordering you to do this will deny that he knew anything about it and say that you did it on your own. As long as you're willing to deal with the legal and financial fallout that could hit you personally, then go for it.

    Personally, there is *NO WAY IN HELL* I would do it. Nor would I work for a company that was irresponsible enough to even ASK me to. Sounds like you've picked a pretty shady and unstable company to work for. If I were you, I would stall on the installation ("We're having some technical issues with some of the machines, sir") and start looking for a new job. DO NOT install it if you plan on doing this (they would still blame you after-the-fact).

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  9. I've been down this road by Xest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been in a similar situation, only for us it was the case where someone wanted to run a course in our IT Suite. They needed specific software for the course and told me this 2 days before the course was due to run, they told me they'd ordered the licenses and were on the way but might not make it until after the course was due to run.

    Knowing what these people are like, and having little confidence in their ordering of the licenses I put my foot down and refused to install it until the licenses arrived, I made the point that if this caused a problem for their course that they should perhaps consider not leaving things until the last minute in future. My line manager backed me up in my stance however my boss over-ruled both of us and told us to install it, standing my ground I defied him and refused to do so. Eventually my boss installed the software himself, so the course ran and so forth but at least I hadn't been the one to break the law, the best part? Those licenses never arrived, the whole thing was completely illegal, frankly I fail to believe the licenses were ever really ordered.

    You shouldn't worry about losing your job by refusing to do this, they'll most likely back down on any threat to sack you. If they do however follow through then you're looking at an extremely strong court case involving a massive payout for yourself. If you get sacked and know they have gone ahead installing illegal copies, your first stop should be to report them to whatever country deals with anti-piracy raids, when you report it ask that any evidence of infringement they find be made available to your court case, this will make your case pretty much un-loseable. Just bear in mind that you absolutely do not have to do this, you're entirely in the right by refusing to do so and the law will recognise that.

    One other thing to note is that if you do follow through, obey your orders and install the software - what happens if someone else reports your company? Can you really be sure they'll take the blame? What are you going to do if they say they had no knowledge of pirate software on your systems and hence the blame gets shifted entirely on you.

    I think most people pirate at least some software and home, and so some may say it's hypocritical to say the things I've said here knowing that, but there's a distinction to be made between what you do at home and being professional at work. No one has to know what you get upto at home, and so the risk is more controlled, however at work any number of your users could cash in on that $1000 software piracy report reward or whatever. Furthermore, I'd imagine the penalties for what would probably be commercial copyright infringement would be much more harsh than for home copying also.

    1. Re:I've been down this road by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Funny

      but there's a distinction to be made between what you do at home and being professional at work. No one has to know what you get upto at home, and so the risk is more controlled, however at work any number of your users could cash in on that $1000 software piracy report reward or whatever. Furthermore, I'd imagine the penalties for what would probably be commercial copyright infringement would be much more harsh than for home copying also.
      There's another distinction too -- at home you're exposing yourself to risk; you get caught, you face the consequences. At work you're exposing your employer as well as yourself.

      I think it's a lot more wrong to expose others than to expose just myself.

      Err, I probalby could phrase that a bit better... I think it's bad to expose others to risk than to just expose myself to risk.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  10. Re:Turn them in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Especially when they don't share the grog

  11. Just don't do it by Goose42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The answer is simple, just don't do it. Just do your other jobs instead of following your boss' order to break the law. If he fires you, sue. You'll win multiple years of lost salary easily when the reason you were fired is that you were ordered to commit illegal acts and wouldn't. In the end, it'll look good on the resume for your next job, because future employers will know that you'll stand your ground for the things that are right.

    Honestly, I'm speaking from a little bit of experience here, so keep a stiff upper lip and don't give in to your boss.

  12. Any disgruntled employees? by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

    You're the IT guy. Find an employee who is disgruntled (or maybe just use the guy that keeps eating your lunch out of the fridge even though it's CLEARLY marked with BIG BLACK MARKER with your name). Send an email ratting the company out to the BSA from that person's account. Put a BSA bumper sticker on his car. Sneak into his house and put a thank you card ("The Business Software Alliance thanks you for reporting 500 scofflaw software stealing terrorists in 2006! Wishing you more success bringing down more scum in 2007!") on his mantle.

    Meanwhile, forge emails from your boss to you threatening to fire you if you don't immediately and without question install as much illegal software as possible. Include some BSA baiting ("And if the BSA comes around, I've got a few shotgun shells with their names on it! Yeehaw!") For extra points, forge an entire email thread wherein he continues to threaten you and the BSA and anyone else you can think of despite your continued objections. Throw in some sentences where you attempt to convince him of his wrongs through Bible verses.

    When the BSA comes to the office, throw a Molotov cocktail from your boss's window toward their car. Leave the building and wait across the street for the SWAT team to arrive. If your boss tries to come out, as soon as you can see him coming out the door yell as loud as you can "He's got a gun!"

    This should take care of your problem.

  13. Stick to your guns and quit. by twitter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    how are they going to behave should this come to the attention of FAST (or other enforcement body)?

    Why bother to find out?

    Tell them that you are going to Install Open Office or quit. It's not that what they have asked is morally wrong, it's that it exposes YOU to danger for their benefit. Oh yeah, it's also stupid because better software exists and they have "standardized" on the worst. You offered your advice and they discarded it, so it's time to go unless you want to be an bag man.

    By the way, the anonymous reader has already reported them. ISPs already co-operate with media companies and monitors traffic. The chances are they have monitored the post. But it won't matter because someone there will fink sooner or later.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by dougmc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh yeah, it's also stupid because better software exists and they have "standardized" on the worst.
      You aren't saying that OpenOffice is better than MS Office, are you? It's cheaper, it runs on more platforms (which is why I use it on my Linux box for the very few cases where I need Office-type software), but other than that, it's most certainly NOT better.


      I love to bash Microsoft as much as the next guy, probably more in fact, but when I'm looking for examples of great free software, OpenOffice usually isn't one of my first choices. It's slow, buggy and just as bloated as Office is -- if not more so. (AbiWord is better, but still not perfect ...)

    2. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by avronius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One e-mail message will do the job nicely.

      To: [e-mail address of manager]
      Bcc: [your personal e-mail address]
      Subject: [Product] installations and license limitations
      Body:
      [name of manager],

      I have reviewed our records and determined that we have x licenses for [product]. There are users that require this product, yet do not currently have it installed, and there are insufficient licenses to meet their needs. Unfortunately, we are not able proceed with installing more copies of this software until new licenses are purchased.

      I am attaching the name of our local [product] vendor, as well as his/her direct number, so that you can obtain additional licensing. When the new licenses arrive, we will happy to proceed with the new installations.

      Alternatively, we would be happy to install an available opensource alternative. There are a handful of products that might be more suitable in this environment, and we are willing to work with the users to ensure the right products for them.

      We are not willing to put this company at risk of litigation or prosecution for software misuse.

      Sincerely,

      [You]

    3. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by 644bd346996 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It doesn't seem that any of OO.o's shortcomings would affect the company in question. Re-read the summary to see what they can do with an office suite.

    4. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by dedazo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tell them that you are going to Install Open Office or quit.

      Very easy to sit there and say "just quit your job", isn't it?

      Oh yeah, it's also stupid because better software exists and they have "standardized" on the worst.

      Let me guess, the issue for you here is that they're not using open source as you'd like? What "better software" exists?

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    5. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The guy's solution is one that does not expose them (or him) to any potential licensing violations, and consequently any lawsuits. Whether or not OpenOffice, or any open source solution, is better, equal or worse is irrelevant. He's offering them a solution that will offer the shallowest learning curve, will likely do most (if not all) of what they want, is cheap (as in free) and is completely legal and above board.

      I would never in a million years expose myself to potential litigation over something like this without a notarized document from my manager protecting me from all blame, and from losing my job if someone comes a'knockin' to check up on licensing violations. Since I doubt anyone's manager has the power to make that deal (unless the manager is an owner), it's going to hit the legal department, and the legal department will probably have a fit, and the whole plan will fall in its ass in a hurry.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    6. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by harrkev · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I could be wrong, but don't organizations like the BSA go after the companies and not the individuals?

      It seems to me that the best thing to do would be to write e-mail to the company bosses and tell them your concerns and your recomendations, and BCC it to a separate e-mail that you control. Then forward the responses. Do what your bosses ask, and if the BSA comes knocking, show them the e-mails.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    7. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that when it gets to court, you have at least some chance of your employer pointing the finger at you and saying "He installed these without our authorization", and suddenly it's you on the hot seat.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    8. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by dedazo · · Score: 2, Insightful
      My question here relates to the off-hand "well you should quit" argument. There's no way for anyone to know what this person's situation is, and I doubt half the people (including dear twitter here) suggesting he quit would do that.

      Personally, I'd get evidence I was ordered to do something, like an email, and then just do it. Then quietly start looking for another job. The idea that I'm going to just barge into the CTO's office, throw my badge in his face and walk off into the sunset is a little ridiculous.

      Then again, you have to understand twitter has never had a job where he'd be exposed to something like this, so that complicates the validity of his advice. The only reason he jumped in here was to argue that OpenOffice is "better" than Microsoft Office. He calls it "evangelism".

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
    9. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, this isn't a criminal issue - it's civil. If you can show that you were just following orders, that should be enough to Cover Your Ass.

      If they come asking you to duplicate and sell Office CDs, well then that's another matter.

      If you are the vengeful sort, a call to the BSA would be a nice touch.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    10. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by gregleimbeck · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do many of these actually end up in court? From what I understand, after an audit, BSA gives you a reasonable amount of time to gain compliance before you actually get hit with any fees.

      --

      P.S.,

      This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated.

    11. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by twitter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Very easy to sit there and say "just quit your job", isn't it?

      I've quit more than one dishonest employer and don't regret it. They never pay their would be bag men well anyway.

      --

      Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    12. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by lhand · · Score: 4, Informative
      Whow sport!
      Saying my boss tole me to will not protect you.
      In the United States there is such a thing as criminal copyright infringement:
      Title 17-

      Sec. 506. Criminal offenses

      (a) Criminal Infringement.--Any person who infringes a copyright
      willfully either--
      (1) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial
      gain, or
      (2) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic
      means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or
      phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total
      retail value of more than $1,000,

      shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, United
      States Code. For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction
      or distribution of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be
      sufficient to establish willful infringement.
      The punishment is up to 3 or 5 years and $2500.
    13. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by bob_herrick · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, we are not able proceed with installing more copies of this software until new licenses are purchased. [emphasis added] It's not that it is unfortunate, it's that it would be illegal. It's not that you are incapable of doing an installation, it's that to do so would break the law. I would rewrite this sentence to reflect the situation, rather than leaving room for 'misinterpretation.' Something like the following is what I have in mind.

      Under the terms of our license with [whomever], it is not legal for us to install more copies unless we purchase additional licenses.
      This serves to put the decision maker on clear notice, and forms the basis for you legitimate refusal if it comes to that.

      Either way this comes out, update your CV and get it launched.
    14. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have my integrity called into question at all. I simply will not do something illegal because my employer asks. I will not be put in any position where I could be held liable, or even accused of wrongdoing. No employer has the right to ask it of me.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    15. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by Arterion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I just have to wonder if you've ever went to bed hungry.

      Ethics is further down the list of things to be true to than survival. Especially since we're talking about something as abstract as violating a copyright. No babies are being eaten, and no Nazis are riding dinosaurs. Choosing to to honor IP laws that are themselves ethically questionable over one's own survival is not something I expect anyone to do, regardless of the law. Maybe he has kids to feed. Maybe he lives paycheck to paycheck. There are a lot of reasons he might not be able to just quit.

      I think anyone who's ever gone to bed hungry would totally appreciate that.

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    16. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Re-read the grandparent post that made the claim that OpenOffice is a superior product to Microsoft Office. The parent poster was replying to that nonsensical claim.

    17. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by nwbvt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even better, cc your vendor and include a line like "I've included John from {insert vendor's name} whom you can contact to purchase additional licenses" (you might also want to touch it up a bit to make it sound like you suspect your boss innocently did not realize the licensing issues). That will essentially force them to abide by your decision, and if they accuse you of snitching on them you can claim you were just trying to make it easier for them to purchase the additional licenses. Plus the vendor may offer a discount to keep you from going down the open source road and you would get the credit for finding it.

      And worst case scenario, if you ever do need a new job, you have a new contact at your vendor who would certainly give you a good recommendation.

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
    18. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by lhand · · Score: 2, Informative

      Since he's not copying disks, though, doesn't this mean he'd just be breaking a contract? Alas, he is copying disks. From the CD to the hard disc.

      Remember when they wanted to force an additional license for when one copied something from his disc to memory? Glad nothing came from that.
    19. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by 644bd346996 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For the purposes of the submitter, OO.o is almost certainly superior to MS Office. Just because it is going to be used in a corporate environment doesn't mean they need all the obscure and complex features of MS Office that haven't been duplicated in OO.o. It is nonsensical to claim that OO.o is better than MS Office in every way, but you were the one to imply that that was the claim.

    20. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Trust me, they will. Same thing happened to me.

      I sent such an email. Was then called into the managers office and told in no uncertain terms that if I sent an email like that again I'd be kicked out of the building. They don't like that stuff because it's tracable.

      This company had one MSDN for 100 employees. An unlicensed exchange server, mostly unlicensed XP, unlicensed VS2003, unlicensed office, you name it, they didn't license it.

      They also ran a single (pirated) vmware GSX server and rented the resulting virtual machines to customers not telling them they were virtual.

      This is not uncommon - every company I've ever been with has had the same attitude.

      Of course when they all but ordered me to hack into a rival companies servers and steal their data I put my foot down - stripping it from webservers and demo versions of their software is fair game... hacking? I wasn't going to do jail time for them and refused.

    21. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by MayorDefacto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I sent such an email. Was then called into the managers office and told in no uncertain terms that if I sent an email like that again I'd be kicked out of the building. They don't like that stuff because it's tracable.

      Seriously, I know you value your paycheck, but LEAVE. It sounds like your company has serious ethical deficiencies that border on criminality. Based on the fact that they're asking you to do something illegal and refuse to listen to the voice of reason-- especially in light of the fact that they told you you'd be out on your ass for bringing this up in a traceable forum-- you really need to remove yourself from such a toxic work environment. The stress of having to find another job pales in comparison to the stress of being the fall guy when their scheme is discovered.

      Do what's best for YOU and get out!

    22. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by Necroman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's the advantage of working a big company. Some things move slowly and you don't have much control over, but everything I've ever seen within my company is by-the-book. I have never heard of anyone pirating software or doing any of that sort of stuff. If you can make a case for software you need, the company will normally buy it for you.

      --
      Its not what it is, its something else.
    23. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by terjeber · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even better, cc your vendor and include a line like "I've included John from {insert vendor's name} whom you can contact to purchase additional licenses

      Never, never, never. Don't do this. Bad idea. CC the HR person only. Keep it internal. Don't snitch like this, it is not your business to do that, and it can (rightfully so) make you entirely unemployable. Go the HR way and sue their asses if they fire you.

    24. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by Fastolfe · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, after reviewing http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506 again, I suppose it's possible they could try to make a criminal case out of this, which certainly complicates things more than I, as an employee of this company, would probably be comfortable with. The only sane thing to do in this situation is refuse and document.

    25. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by terjeber · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Personally, I'd get evidence I was ordered to do something, like an email, and then just do it.

      Yeah, and that evidence would be cool reading for him in jail. He is responsible for his actions no matter what. It would be idiotic to do this when he can stick to his guns, bring in the HR responsible, document that he is sticking to his guns, and sue them if they fire him for it.

      BTW, if they do not have an HR person, he should make a simple question in the next meeting with his manager (assuming he at this stage has documented everything): "Can I please speak with the company lawyer about this?"

      When he utters that question, one out of two things will happen, they'll even back off or they will fire him on the spot. Either or he is better off.

    26. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by terjeber · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ethics is further down the list of things to be true to than survival. Especially since we're talking about something as abstract as violating a copyright.

      If you break the law, you break the law, and you take responsibility. It doesn't matter if someone "ordered" you to break the law. You see, you can't be ordered by anyone to break the law no matter what, if they did your responsibility was to completely ignore them.

      The one thing to remember is that the following is illegal for a company (1) to order an employee to break the law and (2) to fire someone for refusing to break the law. A company will normally get punished hard for firing someone for refusing to break the law.

      If the original poster sticks to his guns and still experiences significant pressure over this issue after refusing, he should seek proper legal counsel. If he is fired and he lives in the US, he could end up with a decent settlement.

    27. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by Arterion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And let his children go hungry while he litigates?

      --
      "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
    28. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by Raenex · · Score: 2, Informative

      And if you quit your job, for ethical reasons or otherwise, I don't think you're eligible for unemployment. Then don't quit. Refuse the order and force them to fire you.

      I could understand if somebody had no prospects and absolutely needed the job. Then again, there are lots of people in the IT industry who are not in this situation, yet will compromise themselves because they do not want to take any risk. This kind of thinking by people everywhere leads to a downward spiral in the system as a whole.

      I once worked for a financial company where they decided they needed to institute a random drug-testing policy. Nobody was happy about it, yet nobody complained to management. I told the company it was unacceptable and that I would resign when the policy went into place. Lots of people said they respected what I was doing, and you could tell they felt some shame, because they made a point of telling me their excuses about "family to think about", etc. Complete bullshit, they just didn't want to be inconvienced and take any risk.

      Funny thing is the company never followed through on the policy. Just having one employee make a stand made them rethink their position.
    29. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by Gernok · · Score: 3, Informative
      Another thing to be careful with. The company I work for was in the process of getting compliant and in that process contacted a vendor to aquire licenses. This vendor actually reported the proposed transaction back to Microsoft. Shortly there after we're scrambling to produce licenses, inventory the network and report this back to Microsoft to avoid Microsoft coming into our Office to audit our network.

      We scripted the uninstall of Office off 200+ machines, and after that finished requests went through the roof. We have since denied all requests until Finance cuts a check for the remaining 80 we need.

      It's a mess to say the least...

    30. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. by gsslay · · Score: 2, Insightful
      CCing emails to other parties is rarely a good way to force people to do things, and a very good way to seriously annoy them. Even if you're in the right. Even if you're doing it for the best of reasons. It should only be done as a last resort when you no longer care.

      It already involves external parties if you are in the process of purchasing software licenses (the original ones that are to be copied).


      Wrong. Whether you observe the terms of the software licenses is not ultimately the responsibility of the vendor. The only possible reason for CCing the vendor is to try to force the manager into doing the right thing, and this isn't the way to do that. All the manager has to do is claim that is was all just a misunderstanding that could have been easily resolved, but you've totally screwed any possibility of meaningful sales negotiation with the vendor because they now have inside info. They can easily then sack you with justification.

  14. A few options: by paladinwannabe2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    1. Threaten to quit if they don't comply.

    2. Quit.

    3. Mention that penalties for pirating software are more expensive than buying it in the first place.

    4. Install Open Office instead, see if people notice.

    5. Threaten to inform Microsoft/BSA.

    6. Draft your letter to the company owners, but instead talk about how 'Open Office saves money' without mentioning your PHB's stupid plan to pirate Windows.

    7. Go over your bosses's head and tell the owners what he's up to.

    I'm sure other people will give you options as well. You obviously have principles, don't let your work overrule them.

    --
    You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
    1. Re: A few options: by quakehead3 · · Score: 3, Funny

      $ delete boss delete: cannot remove 'boss': Permission denied $ sudo delete boss boss removed

  15. Thin Clients by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you already have a Windows Server in place, consider installing Citrix as a simple applications server and letting most users access a single copy of MS Office installed on the apps server rather than giving each and every one of them their own installation. It's almost certainly a less-expensive (and still legal) solution than buying enough Office licenses for every desktop and, assuming reasonable usage patterns, should provide a good end-user experience.

    It is not acceptable, as an alleged professional, to willingly or by policy violate the laws of where your business is located.

    I know it sounds like a pain, but you should stand up for your professional ethics. If they are crazy enough to fire you for refusing to break the law, you should deal with the wrongful termination appropriately. As a refresher, our professional ethics are well summarized HERE.

    If they asked you to go out in the parking lot and siphon gas from random cars rather than submit a travel reimbursement because the "budget is tight", would you? Would you shoplift copies of the software from BestBuy for them?

    Write up a small presentation listing the various options and their costs and drawbacks:

    • Full licenses for all desktops
    • Full licenses for power users and a citrix server
    • Full licenses for power users and openoffice for others
    • Google Documents

    Illegal options aren't really options and should be neither offered nor considered.

    1. Re:Thin Clients by Samalie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      With all due respect, you're an idiot. Legally, you need 1 copy of Office (or whatever, with VERY rare exceptions) per (at least) Concurrent User even if you are using Thin Clients. In the Case of Office, since everyone has Outlook open 24/7 you're screwed anyway. Citrix may ALLOW you to run 1 license of Office/whatever for everyone there, but that doesn't make it legal.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    2. Re:Thin Clients by Yobgod+Ababua · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, no. He's close to correct.

      Recent versions of Office explicitly address the Terminal Services environment and say that you have to "have" a separate MS Office license for every possible desktop that's used to access Office even occassionally. If someone logged in from home one day and fired up office remotely, MS says you need to buy another Office license. There's no way to actually install these licenses anywhere, but you're expected to have them.

      You also need a separate per-device TS-CAL and CAL for each connecting client.

      Where things can get confusing (and what we originally had set up) is where you have only one UNIX server that accesses the Terminal Server, where everyone runs their citrix clients and uses VNC or X redirection to view those somewhere else. Depending on what version of Office you have installed you might in this situation only have one "device", and you are allowed to have multiple users per device. Read your license agreements carefully, and bring aspirin.

  16. Refuse by zx75 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's a hard path, and I know someone who has walked it. I have a cousin who was in the same situation and was fired for refusing to perform those illegal acts.
    If you are in your grace period, they can terminate you without giving a reason, but if you've been employed for some time they cannot legally fire you for refusing to perform an illegal act.

    In the end, my cousin didn't get anything out of it. He had to find another job (and did) but he did have the satisfaction of seeing the company get busted for unrelated illegal actions, which were then compounded when the illegal software was discovered.

    To this day, even though it was tough being forced to find a new job, he is glad that he took a stand against it... and I'll be the first to admit that I admire him for it.

    --
    This is not a sig.
  17. Why do you want to keep the job so badly? by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They asked you to violate the law and your own ethics, you gave them perfectly reasonable alternatives that would cost them nothing, and they still overruled you.

    Tell me again why you are so attached to this job?

    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    1. Re:Why do you want to keep the job so badly? by stinerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably because the guy needs to eat.

      Not all of us live in a perfect fantasy land where we can just quit jobs that offend our ethics. The guy probably has a family to support. Having to take care of other people lessens your ability to stand on principle.

    2. Re:Why do you want to keep the job so badly? by lorcha · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I never said he had to just walk out the front door in a huff. I merely asked a question.

      He said he wanted to keep the job. I asked why he was so attached.

      I think it's a perfectly valid question. It's not like there aren't other jobs out there.

      Again, no one said he had to leave before he had something else lined up, so relax my friend.

      --
      "Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
  18. Re:or "Would you say anything?" by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Now, I get around that by using free (if old and unmaintained) software like ZipCentral and Crimson Editor, but not everybody feels that way.

    Are you aware that 7-Zip has a file manager mode that does the same kind of crap as winzip and winrar?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  19. I've Been In That Situation A Few Times by NeverVotedBush · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This problem is far more common than people think -- especially at smaller companies that are trying to make ends meet.

    What I did in one case was to comply with the order and then got the hell out. I needed the time to find another job. I didn't turn them in to SPA or anything but I sometimes wish I had after some wait long enough to not point the finger back at me.

    In another instance, I discovered that my predecessor had installed a bunch of copies of software without having the licenses (nowhere near) to cover the installations. I knew my supervisor was (a) a slimeball, and (b) short on money to cover the software. When I told him about the situation, he asked me to find out how much it would cost to make all the software legal so I did. It was too much for him to cover so he decided not to do anything about it.

    Not wanting to be associated with illegal software (I can't go into details, but this was a place with oversight and the consequences to being a party to this would mean immediate dismissal), and wanting to cover my butt, I talked to a company rep for the software and asked if there was a way to convert old licenses to new through some kind of upgrade, plus get a discount on a volume buy. I did this without my supervisor's knowledge or permission.

    I felt I had no choice. I did not see going to his supervisor as an option as I was relatively new and my supervisor had lots of friends. I did the only thing that I thought I could to cover myself. By contacting the company rep, I alerted the company that there was technically piracy going on with their software. I did it without authority, but I also covered the entity's butt I worked for by owning up to the software company and appearing to be proactive. I covered my organization's butt to our parent organization as we were subject to software audits -- which would have put us (and me) in an extreme corner. I also forced my supervisor to pony up for the illegal software. And I also documented dates, inventories, and anything to make my case just in case someone tried to blame me for the illegal copies.

    My supervisor, however, targeted me and cut my position at his very next opportunity and I had to take another position in the organization. Luckily it worked out for the better. He was also eventually targeted and demoted by his supervisor. Maybe I could have gone above him but I didn't know that at the time.

    It was a really tough position. I did what I felt I had to do to cover myself and the organization I work for and to force the hand of my supervisor who was quite content to operate with tens of thousands of dollars of illegal software. I had already been through the situation once and didn't feel like doing it again. It also really made me angry that someone would put me in that position when I am an IT professional. It just sucked. I have absolutely no respect for any supervisor who would do that to an employee and if placed in that position in the future, I would probably be even more open about cutting off their dick by documenting, buidling a case, and going as high as I needed to go to get the issue resolved. I realize that sometimes the supervisor is the CEO/director/whatever, and you can't go higher. In such cases I think all you can do is comply to buy time and get the hell out.

  20. BSA by eric76 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You might point out to them that all it takes is one disgruntled employee or ex-employee to make a complaint to the BSA (Business Software Alliance).

    There is a bright spot, however. After they pay a few hundred thousand dollars to the BSA, they may be more willing to switch completely to open source software.

  21. No license, no install by rbanzai · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would not install unlicensed software at work. If my boss insisted on it I would ask him to put it on paper with the specifics of the software name, the date, and that he knew we did not have a license. If he signs it taking full responsibility I'd go right ahead.

    Part of my job as I.T. Manager has been to make my boss aware of the liability of using pirated software, and of allowing employees to use pirating software like Limewire, etc. If they insist on doing things that expose them to liability it won't be because they didn't know it was a bad idea. :)

    1. Re:No license, no install by aminorex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That would effectively protect you against legal action based on your deeds; however, misprison of a felony is also a crime, so that unless you inform the authorities of your boss' crime, you are still liable to legal action based on your boss' deeds.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  22. Re:Tough call by 91degrees · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd be a little less weaselly than that. I'd stop at "I'm ready to begin installing Office on our PC's. From what I can tell, we only have XX licenses, so we can only install it on XX machines.", and let him specifically say that there are enough licences or to order me to do it anyway.

  23. Re:Ask Slashdot: How do I act on principle? by Lockejaw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And if it's not against your principles, you're choosing between hoping it will blow over, and covering your ass. In most cases, I prefer the CYA approach -- cover yours, not your bosses'.

    --
    (IANAL)
  24. Re:Which is the lesser of two slashdots? by Ynsats · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The question that your statement begs is if the law is being violated by the majority, is it a just law?

    This is the logic your mom used in that "If everyone else jumped off of a bridge, would you do it too?"

    Just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right. Then again, just because it is law, that doesn't necessarily make it right either. The only thing that can be taken from your statement is that if the majority is breaking the law then the validity, justness or application of the law to modern times needs to be revisited.

    Copyright laws are meant to protect the rights of the intellectual property rights holder. Not necessarily the creator of that intellectual property, hence the RIAA.

    If a software company is charging what the market believes is too much for software then the market adjusts itself by offering a better solution at a better price. Hence OpenOffice.

    The black market in illegally traded software cannot be held up as a moral barometer to the current market and trends. The black market exists to undermine the establishment and is not in the best interests of open commerce. It will always exist no matter how just the laws that govern the market are. In addition, many proponents of teh black market support the poor behavior in the name of open software sources and standards. Which, in itself, is a fallacy.

    That said, pirating software is flat out illegal. License agreements are put in place to protect rights that everyone has the right to protect. What makes pirating software wrong is that you are violating that license agreement that is meant to protect the intellectual property owner's rights. If you violate the agreement, you violate the rights of the owner because you take away thier control of thier intelletual property. When you violate rights outlined by something like, say, the U.S. Constitution, you are depriving someone else of thier rights and freedoms. That is a civil crime and punishable by the justice system established in this country.

    If you feel that the law is unjust because "everyone is doing it" then, violating the law is not going to change it. Petitioning your elected officials in Congress will...provided you can get enough of that supposed "majority" to sign a paper saying that the law needs to be revisited and then voted on. Then again, there is a such thing as organized defiance of a law but it doesn't really apply to software piracy. Mainly because you are using that pirated software to your benefit. There can most likely be a monetary value associated with that benefit. If you are profiting off of that benefit and hoooo boy are you in for a doozie of a lawsuit! See, if you are benefitting from someone else's work/property, it's really difficult to claim some sort of organized definance of an "unjust" law.

  25. Get your reward by Quila · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Push it up the chain to the owners, then if there's no love:

    The BSA gives out rewards for reporting piracy. Tell them the situation, but not the company, and find out if the reward will be worth possibly losing your job for reporting them. Then if you do lose your job that's good lawsuit fodder. Reporting is confidential, so the BSA won't tell it's you, but they'll probably know anyway due to your past protests.

    I really don't like the BSA, which likes to drastically punish people for shoddy license accounting. But this is a case of a company willfully and against clear advice installing, using and profiting off of unlicensed software on a large scale. It's just wrong.

  26. When I was in your shoes by evilskull · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The first time I refused to back down and wound up prompting the company owner to call the company lawyer, who literally passed a brick when the owner tried to explain that he didn't "feel" software piracy was wrong. His language is very specific here, because while you might not feel like you're doing something wrong, that doesn't change the fact that it's illegal. Eventually they knuckled down and paid full price for the package they were going to pirate. The second time I was sacked on a friday afternoon after lunch ("Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week"). I called the BSA on the way out, and a few weeks later the company was audited to the bargained-down tune of $6,000, of which I received $500 for "doing the right thing". Ultimately, it's a question of how questionable you'll allow your ethics to become; things like this may not travel from job to job or position to position but it's much easier to keep the high ground than to regain it once you've lost it.

  27. Use the force Luke... by i_want_you_to_throw_ · · Score: 4, Funny

    The force in this case is that you're the IT guy. Can anyone think of the best thing about being the IT guy?

    Anyone? anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

    You can talk over people's heads and just make stuff up! Seriously. I ask myself this as the IT guy all the time: "Hmmm... do I really want to explain this or do I just want to make something up to get rid of this person?".

    Many times, it's make something up. Besides pointing out the obvious illegality, you can just mention that everytime Office is opened the serial number is reported back to Redmond. If two people have it open at the same time then "BAM!" Microsoft sees a possible piracy issue.

    Remember as the IT Guy that you possess specialized knowledge not unlike a doctor or a lawyer: professions where making stuff up is a time honored tradition.

    1. Re:Use the force Luke... by superdude72 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Remember as the IT Guy that you possess specialized knowledge not unlike a doctor or a lawyer: professions where making stuff up is a time honored tradition.

      What are you, like, 16 and you just got off your shift at Fry's? You might get away with this a couple times, but as soon as you get caught--and you will, installing MS Office is not a skill on a par with being a doctor or a lawyer, or even high-end janitorial work--you'll look really, really bad, and you'll be the first person they layoff when your bosses need to trim expenses. Comic Book Store Guy and Nick the Computer Guy are funny on TV, but they're funny precisely because no one wants to work with someone like that.

  28. Writing by Tom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    IANAL, but I am an employee representative with legal training. However, for Germany, not the US.

    First, insist that they give you the order to install that software in writing. Tell them that you believe it is breaking the law, but as a good employee you will of course do it if ordered to do so in writing with either a) a statement from the legal department that it's legal or b) a statement from the boss that he's taking responsibility.

    Stand your ground on this one. Make sure you have a witness (a co-worker) if things get tough.

    Second, put your objections in writing as well. Sign them and mail them to a third party - a union representative, a lawyer, anyone who'll count for something in a court of law.

    That should cover your ass. If you're ok withh probably breaking the law, you're good from here. If you're not ok, do the one thing you can (and, by the way, are legally obliged to) do: Inform the authorities. Really. Stop dancing around the fire. No matter what you do, one thing is sure to not make you happy in the long run, and that's the half-assed way.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  29. Screw that its every person for themselves by teknosapien · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've been in a similar position where I was asked me to testify against my employer. My employer made it clear that if I did "my Career" path would be very limited. So I testified my company was found at fault and within 3 months I was asked to resign, at which point I refused. A few months later I was RIF'd from my position with no separation package. In the exit interview I simply stated "wonder how the lawyers" will feel about this. True to form I had an offer to leave and not come back but I would receive a paycheck for the next 18 months along with all my benefits. If you do the right thing you wont have any regrets. In your position I'm guessing you probably have a manager that is trying to look good by saving money. when the chips fall he's not going to stand in the way of some one else taking the blame. Remember you work for .gov and your expected to fall on your sword

    --
    no matter how good it is, it is human nature always wants to make things better
    1. Re:Screw that its every person for themselves by Catcher80 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Maybe you didn't read the comment, but I'm kind of under the assumption that's how he got released with 18 months of pay instead of nothing, is with the aid of that exit interview.

      I myself see possibility in using that money to hire a lawyer, file lawsuit against the company anyway, and cash in more chips when they can't find any formal justifiable complaint filed against you, but I'd never do that, I'm a nice guy. :)

      --
      I sell out to The Man every day.
  30. oh please by bwy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I love the fact that pretty much all the responses to this topic say "quit!"

    It is amazing how easy it is to tell someone else to quit their job. The majority of people telling this guy to quit have probably installed lots of pirated software in the past, and they probably have music that they didn't buy. Why should you be so offended when your manager asks you to do something that you've already done in your personal life many times?

    It is kind of like if you are a mass murderer and go to prison, and your cell mate asks you to kill someone in a cell down the hall. Shouldn't be that offended that he asked, should you?

    Anyway, what this company is asking him to do is wrong. No doubt. But I love the fact that everyone here is so incredibly offended and now has all these morales that they didn't have last week when they were posting bits about how they trade music files without guilt because even though the law says it is illegal, they don't recognize the law as being valid.

    Well, this is SLASHDOT, after all.

  31. Immediately Resign by coaxial · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You've been asked to break the law. And if it's ever found out (and keep in mind the VAST majority of BSA audits are on the behest of disgruntled employees) you'll be the one on the hook. You don't want that.

    Resign, and make no bones about why.

  32. email won't save the job. by twitter · · Score: 2, Informative

    The more I think about it, the more the honest choice sounds right. You can't make dishonest people act right. When your boss is not honest, it's time to leave.

    If they are going to fire him for refusing, they will lose the email and lie about that too if anything bad happens. They can also lie about the licenses. The boss will lie to HR and then paper his file as a trouble maker.

    They've asked him to do something they think is wrong. There's no winning in a situation like that.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:email won't save the job. by KinkoBlast · · Score: 3, Funny

      CC it, not blindly, to yourself, your boss, your boss's boss, all the way up the chain... and MS, too, just for the hell of it.

      That ought to make it hard to 'lose'.

      If you're that worried about your job, HR too.

    2. Re:email won't save the job. by rainman_bc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      CC it, not blindly, to yourself, your boss, your boss's boss, all the way up the chain... and MS, too, just for the hell of it.

      Yeah, as if THAT isn't a career limiting move. Everyone LOVES a snitch.

      First you email them. Maybe you'll even get a noteworthy response you can then keep for a while.

      Seriously, don't snitch as a first resort, use it as a last resort - hell even make an HR issue out of it.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    3. Re:email won't save the job. by bob_herrick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Impractical advice, sorry to say. Sounds like fun, but inivites heavy duty retaliation, and undermines the possiblity of support from above. The upper level CC's will be seen by both your boss and the folks above him/her as a transparent play. The CC will make it look like your mission is to make your boss look bad, which may be true, but it is not the perception you wish to leave. A BCC to self is fine. If you get pushback from the boss, CC'ing his boss on your reply is fine, even with the e-mail chain - but round one CC chain you suggest is going to convert an outcome from which it is possible to emerge with a victory to a sure loss.

    4. Re:email won't save the job. by Petrushka · · Score: 3, Insightful

      CCing everyone and their boss is not really a good idea, because it contains an implicit threat. If you act like you're ready to hold something over someone's head, even "just in case", people are going to react as though they've already been threatened.

    5. Re:email won't save the job. by terjeber · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Bad advice. Snitching is a bad thing. You don't have to. The proper, legal, way is the right thing to do. Refuse the request. Don't go above someones head (that is usually a bad idea). If you have an HR department, talk to the HR person. The HR person is in legal hot water if he complains and later get fired for sticking to the law.

      As I said - there is a proper process for this, and it is trivial. He sticks to the law. Refueses all such requests. If they fire him, he sues them. They're not going to fire him. If the organization is of some size, his manager should be in trouble once the HR person gets involved.

    6. Re:email won't save the job. by pete6677 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're not doing this to keep your career within the company, you're doing it to buy some time while you search for a job with an ethical firm. Of course an unethical boss will try to get you fired for blowing the whistle. The email is just to cover your ass and possibly have grounds for a wrongful termination suit. Career potential in a company like this is zero unless you can actively aid and abet wrongdoing.

    7. Re:email won't save the job. by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      you're doing it to buy some time while you search for a job with an ethical firm.

      They exist?

  33. Two true stories in this vein by Roadkills-R-Us · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1) Early in my career, a VP walked into my office and asked me to steal a copy of a competitor's source code. I refused. I later found out he'd already asked someone else more senior, who had also refused. He eventually came to his senses, and never asked us to do anything unethical or illegal again. Everyone lived happily ever after.

    2) A few years later at another company, two C?Os kept a vendor busy while another VP "borrowed" a copy of their code "until we can afford to pay it back". The rest of us found out about this when the company got sued. Not long after, the company went into bankruptcy and everyone was laid off. Just before thanksgiving. Happy holidays to all the rest of us. I don't think it came to criminal proceedings against the officers of the company, but it very well could have. Civil suits were also filed against the CEO/CFO team, and they declared personal bankruptcy as well.

    So which boat would you rather be in?

    I know, you could end up getting chunked out of the boat all together. At that point, I'd drop the hammer on them. If you think think that's a likely scenario, speak with a lawyer NOW so if they threaten you, you know what to say. That might solve teh problem.

  34. Integrity by N7DR · · Score: 3, Insightful
    To answer the question: no.

    And the reason for that answer is best summed up by one of my all-time favourite quotations (from, I think, Alan Simpson): "If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

  35. Protect Yourself by tnk1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You should never allow yourself to be ordered into doing something illegal. However, your boss *can* put you in a no-win situation unless you take some precautionary steps.

    The fact of the matter is that you need to *first* make sure that you handle the situation calmly. If your boss backs down, it doesn't mean he isn't going to hold a grudge against you if you caused his pet project to fail.

    Proving why you have been fired can be a tough thing to do if time is allowed to pass. You need to evaluate if you can work with this individual in the future. If he is the type to hold grudges, start looking for another job, even if he seems to calm down. A boss who is willing to order you to break laws will see nothing wrong with trumping up means to decrease your performance ratings even if he doesn't fire you or target you for the next layoff. Moral high-ground isn't very comforting if you are sacked and not prepared for it.

    If any boss gave me an illegal order, I'd instantly consider getting a new job. Even if you aren't fired, you may find yourself laid off after someone sues your company for similar actions.

    Don't expect the legal system to protect you without preparation. If a boss calls you into his office and gives you an illegal order that you refuse, it will be very difficult to prove he ever gave the order if that boss denies it. Your word against his and all that. At that point, you are a potentially marked man, without recourse until you take some action to strengthen your position.

    If the boss does manage to give you the order without any other witnesses, your first step is to go to his boss, with a co-worker and report that order was given. He needs to know about his underling, and you want the co-worker there to make sure that it is clear that you immediately went to him about it. It also prevents that person from covering your boss and his own backend, should he also be the unscrupulous type.

    Be professional about it, though. I have had some bosses who were generally not bad people, but wanted to get the job done. If you can phrase your refusal in a way that is not indignant, but still a firm, "no", then you will be better off. He may realize he's been a jerk, but rubbing it in his face is a bad idea, unless you plan on leaving your job soon anyway.

  36. Piracy for profit is way wrong by Geof · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think most people pirate at least some software and home, and so some may say it's hypocritical to say the things I've said here knowing that, but there's a distinction to be made between what you do at home and being professional at work. No one has to know what you get upto at home, and so the risk is more controlled

    I want to add to this that I find the moral implications to be of a different order altogether. It's one thing to violate copyright privately, quite another to do so in order to make a profit.

    Moreover, companies are granted special protections and rights by the government. To balance this, they are expected to compete in the market. They must follow consistent rules in order for that competition to be (remotely) fair. Even if the law is broken and wrong (as I believe copyright is), that is not a sufficient justification for a business to take it upon itself to play fast and loose with the law. (Other justifications - such as important political or cultural speech, lifesaving treatment, artistic merit, or the ridiculously untenable position Digg just found itself in - may have merit. Profit does not.)

    I know many small developers and web designers pirate their tools. I don't feel comfortable judging them; neither do I think it's my job to police big companies who can afford to pay but cheat anyway. But for myself, as a professional software developer (and no fan of Microsoft) I have spent thousands of dollars on Microsoft tools. I knew that I would not be comfortable with my actions, or feel my criticism of copyright to be wholly legitimate, if I did otherwise.

    Now I develop free software, because that's what I believe in. The high cost of proprietary software only reinforces the advantages of the open model. When companies play by the rules, free and open source software wins.

  37. How do you handle it? by Cervantes · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How do you handle it?

    Step 1) Document your concerns. How many installs are needed, how many are unlicensed, etc
    Step 2) Document your correspondence with your controller. Send them an email explaining (a) that unlicensed software is wrong and can result in large fines for the company (b) that you are aware of unlicensed software (c) it will cost $X to bring the company up to spec and (d) how they would like you to proceed. If they pull the Manager trick of verbally discussing the answer with you, follow up by emailing them a summary ("I want to be sure I clearly understand from our recent conversation...")
    Step 3) If the issue is still unresolved, bring it up with the owners/president. "Dear Mr President, we are exposed to possible fines, I haven't been able to find a solution, and I am concerned for the welfare of the company"
    Step 4) If the owner isn't willing to do anything... call the BSA (or whatever the software authority is in your area)

    These 4 steps follow the chain of command, cover your a$$ if they try to blame you for it, and will eventually result in the right thing happening. If you're lucky, they'll realize they were in the wrong, and they'll correct things. If you're fired, hopefully there's a whistleblowers statute in your area. If there isn't... at least you're not working there anymore.

    The mere fact that you'd bring up this issue says that you're not comfortable with it. So don't do it. No job is worth your self-respect.

    (Of course, there's always "Option B"... just buy the damn licenses (or have them billed to the company), don't give them the option of not purchasing more. License purchasing is suddenly a part of the process. "What's that? Install Office on Bobs machine? Why, no problem! I'll just go call our vendor, buy a license number, and be right back!")

    --
    If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
  38. Quitting is best. by twitter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ethics is further down the list of things to be true to than survival. Especially since we're talking about something as abstract as violating a copyright.

    No, we're talking about not being someone else's bagman and the risks that involves. The problem here is that the boss is transferring the risk his company is taking to the employee. If something goes wrong he's screwed and won't have the option of another job he has now. If the company is caught and he's blamed, he'll end up washing dishes for a living.

    I've worked with convicted felons and they all deeply regret their convictions. Their crimes were petty but it has locked them out of all sorts of honest work. The few people who hire them do so because they know they can squeeze that much harder. This makes life harder for them than you and me.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  39. Re:Stick to your guns and quit. (and DOCUMENT) by Pvt_Waldo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Document, document document - as in keep track of all communications and don't do any of it verbally. If you have verbal communications, email the parties involved with a conversation summary saying, "This is the summary of ourcoversation as I recall it. Please append comments or corrections if you believe them necessary".

    One approach is to ask them to sign an affidavit stating you are doing this because told to, and that all parties recognize the illegality of it. If they fire you as a result of your "attitude", you probably have a case for taking them to court for illegal termination.

    What ever you end up doing though, I'd get out of there ASAP.

  40. ns by Divx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just keep it simple and professional. Get a list of all the Serial Numbers you have (legal access to). Email that list to your boss, along with a letter saying: "We have office installed on the following computers: Dave Jones, Workstation 101, Serial # 1234 1234 1234 1234 Steve Jones, Workstation 102, Serial # 1244 1244 1244 1244 Etc Etc Etc I am ready to install office on workstation 201, 202, etc etc, but we have no more serial numbers that I am aware of to activate any other copies. If you have more serial numbers available, please provide me with a list of them and I can proceed with installation, thanks in advance! Tom Jones" This tells bossman that you know what is going on, that you have an inventory of what is where and what should not be where. And if by some miracle he comes up with a list of new serial numbers, that is on his head, not yours. You're just implementing instructions and information that was provided to you by your boss. If he tells you to find serial numbers on your own, tell him you have no idea how or where to look for that kind of information. Keeps it simple, shows him you're willing and ready to install, you just need that one thing from him to proceed.

  41. Re:Ignore the law. Support your employer. by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So Simonetta, what exactly do you do for a living? If you refuse to pay my company what we ask you to pay for our software, then why should anyone pay you and/or your company for the work you do? After all, saving money by not paying you for your product or service increases my personal productivity, right? "I'm ripping you off and taking food out the mouths of your children? I don't care."

    If you don't agree with the price my company wants to charge for our software, you have exactly one choice: don't buy it and don't use it. Try "I don't like your price so I'm not going to pay you for your work" on your plumber, mechanic, doctor, lawyer, etc. and see what happens.

  42. Blow that whistle by dunng808 · · Score: 5, Informative

    For anyone working for the Federal Government and find themselves in a similar situation, report it to the U.S. Office of Special Counsel, Disclosure Unit. This office "...serves as a safe conduit for the receipt and evaluation of whistleblower disclosures from federal employees, former employees and applicants for federal employment."

    Ignore all the advice to quit. That may be a viable option for run-of-the-mill civilian jobs, but in federal service there is only one employer. Move to another position, yes, but don't give up a federal career over something so insignificant as this. And no, you are not expected to fall on your sword. You are expected to disclose fraud, waste, and abuse.

    --

    Gary Dunn
    Open Slate Project

    1. Re:Blow that whistle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
      ...serves as a safe conduit for the receipt and evaluation of whistleblower disclosures from federal employees, former employees and applicants for federal employment.

      Oh, horseshit -- under this administration, the other word for "whistleblower" is "fuckee". They just finished weakening legal protection for said fuckees.

  43. First,update your resume by gujo-odori · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The very first thing you need to do is get your resume up-to-date and begin a job search, if you haven't already. Any company that would order you to take such a step is clearly in financial trouble. Even if you are the only sysadmin, sooner or later your job will evaporate, maybe along with everyone else's, maybe before. Don't be there when that happens. Start the process of getting out now, when you can choose a new job at your leisure, not when you become unemployed or the get busted and you are embroiled in it.

    Also, you need to buy 30 or 60 minutes of a lawyer's time. Probably an IP specialist. You may be able to find one local to you through the lawyer search on http://www.handelonthelaw.com/Default.aspx. IANAL and the following is not legal advice, blahblahblah.

    I would go ahead and install the software, but then, as I stated above, start looking for a job. Your ethical obligation to not violate copyright does not trump your obligation to support any dependents you may have, or your right to feed yourself and keep a roof over your head.

    Before installing it, thoroughly document what you have been asked to do, and that it is under duress b/c you would be fired if you refused, and document that you proposed using a free alternative and were refused. Get the document notarized, and lock it away in a safety deposit box. Do anything else the lawyer tells you to do to protect yourself. If you have emails showing them telling you to do it, preserve those in both electronic and hard copies. Keep them in the safety deposit box, too

    Then install the software.

    Once you start your new job (really; don't do this before you've left this company and are actually working at a new job), at your discretion you could make an anonymous tip to the BSA that the company willfully installed more copies of software than they had a license for. Even if the company fingers you for it, you'll have documentation showing they told you to do it, and the BSA is not likely to be interested in you per se; they are after the money, and the company has that and is the real violator. Plus, if push comes to shove at that point, you probably have nothing to lose by telling the BSA (under advice from your lawyer, of course; if the shit hits the fan, you'll need to get one) that it was you who turned them in because you couldn't leave that on your conscience, that they made you do it but you quit because of it, then turned them in.

    Good luck to you. It sucks to be working for a company like that. I hope you can find a new job that is open source friendly.

  44. Looks Like You Dont Work in Corp America by SRA8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been in a similar situation. I didnt make the email that formal, but basically wrote "Per out conversation, I will make X copies of WorldScope, based on your understanding that so many floating licenses are available." My boss wrote back "do not install." Then came by my desk and verbally said to install. THEN what do you do?

    1. Re:Looks Like You Dont Work in Corp America by bareman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      verbally tell him you've done it???

  45. That is pure BS!! by Cocoshimmy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I call bullshit!! Care to cite a source?

    If what you're saying is true then a career as a Hitman or mercenary would be a perfectly legitimate career. One could order and carry out assassinations with impunity.

    An contract to commit an illegal act is not valid a contract. That is why contracts to kill cannot be enforced and legitimate hit agencies do not exist. The argument that you were simply holding up your end of the deal (even if it is through a limit liability corporation) is not a defense in court. Similarly, if you are ordered to do something illegal you cannot argue that you were obliged to do it unless the company threatened you or your family with physical harm.

  46. AVG is great, not free by holophrastic · · Score: 2, Informative

    AVG isn't free. AVG Free Edition is. I use it at home, and love it dearly. It's not free for business. I've installed AVG at four separate businesses, having proudly purchased each one. No one deserves it more. What a perfect product. It's general silence and (optional) non-disruptive activity/update/operation is what makes me smile most.

  47. Re:Dinosaurs? by Arterion · · Score: 3, Funny

    Nazis rode dinosaurs? No, but that's what will happen if we allow gay marriage.
    --
    "That which does not kill us makes us stranger." -Trevor Goodchild
  48. Re:Don't make this about open source! by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes this is a legal issue, and "Open Source" (or "Free Software") is the term describing the type of license the software uses. In other words, "open source" is just as much a legal term as it is a technical one.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  49. Take the Machiavellian Approach and CYOA by overlook77 · · Score: 2, Informative

    No reason to jeopardize your own job over a licensing issue for Microsoft. "Teacher teacher, Billy was talking when you were out of the room!" Dont go out of your way to rat out your coworkers or your own company that pays you. I wouldnt install the software though, because you certainly dont want to be liable if they get caught. Like the other posts, I would either make someone else do it or get something in writing from a superior telling you the copies are legal to cover your own a$$. No reason to go telling though.

  50. No pirated software in my workplace! by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's no pirated software where I work. I can be sure of that because we're a 100% Open Source / Manual Methods shop.

    We got a "friendly visit" from FAST once. They seemed concerned mainly with how we prevented employees from copying the software that was on their workstations (more particularly with trying to sell us a Windows-only, closed-source payware program that would have made a christian attempt to prevent this sort of thing). I pointed out that we had no procedure in place to prevent this and were unlikely ever to institute one. I thought the poor guy's arsehole was going to cave in until I pointed out that every piece of software on their machines was either truly Open Source or otherwise redistributable, so there would be no reason for us to prevent this.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  51. Probably already been mentioned but... by BeProf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I am not a lawyer, but I am the son of an internal bank auditor who's been asked to do some illegal things during her career. Here's how dear ole' Mom handled it, and I think this is how you should handle it:

    Inform your supervisor in writing that what he's asking you to do is illegal under thus and such provision of thus and such law and as such you can't fulfill the request. Be specific and be complete. Ask them if doing this is a condition for your continued employment. Ask them for a response in writing. Send two copies of it through the regular old mail, one to him, one to yourself. Keep the one to yourself, unopened, in a safe place.

    At this point they have two choices: They can fire you, in which case you can sue the pants off them for wrongful termination or they can back down.

    PS - Under no circumstances would I just go ahead and do it because, by your own admission, you know this is illegal. That makes you an accessory to the crime, regardless of whether or not they're threatening to fire you.

    --
    You are attempting to read sigs. Cancel or Allow?
  52. High Horses by matthewcraig · · Score: 2

    These guys commenting need to get real. I have seen a lot of company IT departments, and so very few are completely pirate free. If your workplace does not have an unlicensed copy of WinZip or an evaluation copy of software that has run way past the evaluation, then you must have a very special organization.