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Obama Requests Creative Commons for Presidential Debates

Presidential hopeful Barack Obama recently submitted a letter to the DNC asking for the Presidential debates to be licensed under the Creative Commons. This move would give everyone the freedom to share, recut, and edit the debates as they wish. "I am a strong believer in the importance of copyright, especially in a digital age. But there is no reason that this particular class of content needs the protection. We have incentive enough to debate. The networks have incentive enough to broadcast those debates. Rather than restricting the product of those debates, we should instead make sure that our democracy and citizens have the chance to benefit from them in all the ways that technology makes possible."

78 of 478 comments (clear)

  1. Good for him by ohearn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is definately something I can stand behind regardless of which party it comes from.

    1. Re:Good for him by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      "This is definately something I can stand behind regardless of which party it comes from."

      I have to 2nd that!! I'm still VERY open minded to this next election...and this just put a big "+" mark next to his name so far.

      Anything that starts to 'buck' the system a little I'm for. I thought I'd heard that MSNBC? was covering the debates, and was trying very hard to lock in all the content to themselves where no one could really publish parts of it, etc. The debates are (should be) and important part of the US public's decision making, and should therefore be completely free for use and analysis by the general public as they see fit.

      You know...I've heard it say that the govt. takes your freedoms a little piece at a time. Well, maybe it works in reverse too? Every little thing that helps change the old party way/style in the elections, helps break the grip and open it up more to change......and I'm all for that.

      If we could next somehow blow away the primary system for something else more open...we might be able to someday get actual GOOD candidates to the elections, rather than the predestined crap we seem to get from the parties which is largely decided either in advance, or apparently by the early primaries that seem to hold nothing in common with the majority of the US.

      But, that's another story....start with baby steps....baby steps.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Good for him by travdaddy · · Score: 3, Informative

      I thought I'd heard that MSNBC? was covering the debates, and was trying very hard to lock in all the content to themselves where no one could really publish parts of it, etc.

      You thought right: Here's the previous Slashdot Article.

      --
      Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
    3. Re:Good for him by God'sDuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Parent angry? Yes. Troll, no.

      I'm miffed at Obama's crew for their action as well -- not that they took over the profile, but that they did it in a hurry, without coming to some sort of agreement with the guy. Heck -- they even could have offered him a prime spot in the campaign if they wanted to. I still think I'd vote for Obama if the election were tomorrow....but a poor show all around, really. I hope they at least try to make it right with him, rather than steamrolling on.

    4. Re:Good for him by cgenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What does that have to do with standing behind the request for creative commons?

      Good people do bad things. Bad people do good things. That doesn't change the action itself, or whether or not we should get behind it.

    5. Re:Good for him by spottedkangaroo · · Score: 2

      This pattern of speech coming out of DC, where they ask a yes/no question and then immediately answer it makes me want to jam pencils into my ears so I don't have to hear it anymore. It's excellent to be able to read it too. Perhaps I'll have to jam my eyes out as well. It'd be a lot harder to write code without eyes...

      --
      Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
    6. Re:Good for him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "So that means you support him Stealing a webpage/myspace page and screwing the guy that put all his work into it as well?"

      How would you feel if I decided that from here on out, I'm going to become Lumpy, and speak for you in place of you on Slashdot? Don't worry, I'll surely put "hard work" into protecting your name and making sure everything you say is correctly represented here... I'm certain I won't leave anything out, or get paid to trash your name, I'll be nice and benevolent, I promise.

      So how about it?

    7. Re:Good for him by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So that means you support him Stealing a webpage/myspace page and screwing the guy that put all his work into it as well?

      That guy named a site after a well-known person and attempted to hold it ransom for much more than it was worth. The guy didn't have a right to Obama's name. He also didn't have a right to force himself into the campaign as he attempted. Note that only the link - barack obama's name - got transferred, the idiot still has his page. He deserves what he got. If you don't want your site to be transferred, don't name it after a public figure. If this had been a registrar issue the result would have been no different.

      For disclosure, I will not be voting for Obama, but this whole crapstorm over a story that boils down to little more than the old squat/extort trick doesn't deserve the legs it has.

    8. Re:Good for him by popeyethesailor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good people do bad things. Bad people do good things. That doesn't change the action itself, or whether or not we should get behind it.
      Offtopic, but there are no "good" or "bad" people - only their actions are qualified as such.
    9. Re:Good for him by Skye16 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uhm, just going by the other Slashdot article, there's no mention of "stealing" a myspace page. The guy asked for $49,000+, they said "uhm, no, that's okay, we'll start a new one", and that was that. That isn't theft. That's declining to agree to a deal they felt wasn't worth it. Mayhaps things have changed since then, but there's a big fucking difference between not buying what someone is offering and then finding an alternative, and just taking it from him. By that logic, every time I decline to purchase an RIAA backed artist and instead buy from an Indie band, I'm stealing from the afore mentioned RIAA artist. Seems kinda silly, doesn't it?

    10. Re:Good for him by Ngarrang · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It seems like an empty gesture to me. Do the politicians actually answer any questions these days? The last few debates I have watched, the answers were to poorly constructed, or circular, or not an answer at all, as to make the point of debates in this modern day needless.

      Ask them a simple question, and get a complex non-answer.

      So, props to Obama for trying to look like a progressive to those who cannot see through such ploys for voter support.

      --
      Bearded Dragon
    11. Re:Good for him by fbjon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So, props to Obama for trying to look like a progressive to those who cannot see through such ploys for voter support.
      What's your point? That you won't support his proposal, or that you hate politics in general?
      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    12. Re:Good for him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's complete bull -- that sort of thing is the very definition of fair use. The notion that a candidate would ever pay to use an opponent's debate answers in an attack ad is completely absurd.

      What Obama wants is people passing around videos of him on YouTube.

    13. Re:Good for him by tbannist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What exactly is the fiasco? He (or his campaign staff) decided he didn't want to buy a myspace channel for $50,000. On the flip side of "stealing" from the guy who registered the myspace page in his name without his permission, he's a politician who chose not to squander $50,000. If he had bought it, the same political trolls who are crying about him ripping this guy off would be crying how "Obama wasted $50,000 on a myspace page".

      This appears to be a simple case of "Sorry, your price is too high", unless someone can actually give a cogent (and truthful) reason why anyone should care.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    14. Re:Good for him by Wookietim · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How does it follow that someone who supports creative commons supports stealing webpages? I agree that everything that comes out of a politicians mouth (Especially during an election campaign) must be treated suspiciously. But this is not a campaign promise - it is only a request to return the political debate to the publics hands. And O'Bama is taking quite a chance hear - let's face it, releasing this under creative commons opens him up to the very real possibility of being edited by some person to look like a complete creep. So I congratulate him - here's hoping he'll be able to continue being this forward thinking in the future.

      --
      http://timcol6.freehostia.com/
    15. Re:Good for him by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do the politicians actually answer any questions these days?

      I think that's a good question, about the need for politicians to better address voter needs. In my campaign, we have had a tremendous, just, two-way dialogue with the voters in this country and that is definitely the way to go. That's why I have always been a big supporter of education. If I'm elected, I will give a lifetime tax exemption to anyone who pursues a PhD in anything. And that's what America needs right now.

    16. Re:Good for him by slughead · · Score: 3, Informative

      That guy named a site after a well-known person and attempted to hold it ransom for much more than it was worth.

      It was clearly marked as a "fan site.".. The price tag the guy set on it was to pay him back for the 160,000 user community he had formed which even myspace said he had a right to. He didn't want to stop doing the page--he would've kept doing the fan site for free. He asked for cash because, since they were forcing off his own project anyway, he thought he should be compensated for what he had lost.

      The campaign didn't negotiate with him, and ended up promising him $10,000. This happened briefly before they strong-armed myspace to step in. It is not for you to say how much he can sell his OWN stuff for. Judging from the amount of work he put into it, and that he didn't want to give it up, it's obvious to me that he was not asking for too much.

      The guy didn't have a right to Obama's name. He also didn't have a right to force himself into the campaign as he attempted.

      He wasn't doing anything like that. He made the page and started it from the ground up and was an avid supporter of Obama, just trying to do his part. Over time, the community got huge under his care, and Obama's campaign stepped in and said "hey, nice work, gimme!".

      Note that only the link - barack obama's name - got transferred, the idiot still has his page.

      What? No. They transfered it to another URL and dropped his friends. All myspace did was transfer his text to another account. He lost EVERYTHING of value.

      Losing a URL to a website, as any idiot can piece together, often ends an online community. This community was not created by the obama campaign. They could've setup an "official" page with a different URL and left this poor guy alone. Instead, they hijacked myspace's terms of service and fear of law suits to steal this guy's URL and destroy all his work.

      The site was clearly labeled "unofficial," and the entire community knew it as such. The campaign simply wanted the address. Personally, I think it hurt them more than their new URL could ever help.

      He deserves what he got. If you don't want your site to be transferred, don't name it after a public figure. If this had been a registrar issue the result would have been no different.

      Registrar issues are vastly different than free myspace accounts. He wasn't even posing as Obama, so there's no legal issue here. Obama does not own the myspace.com/barackobama url any more than he owns en.wikipedia.com/Barack_Obama.

      If I were Joe Anthony, I'd sue the Obama campaign if I could.

    17. Re:Good for him by rmckeethen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That guy named a site after a well-known person and attempted to hold it ransom for much more than it was worth. The guy didn't have a right to Obama's name. He also didn't have a right to force himself into the campaign as he attempted. Note that only the link - barack obama's name - got transferred, the idiot still has his page. He deserves what he got. If you don't want your site to be transferred, don't name it after a public figure. If this had been a registrar issue the result would have been no different.

      I think you're missing a few key points:

      • The 'guy', Joe Anthony, didn't name his site after Barak Obama. Everyone seems to agree that he created the site in support of Obama, which is why this isn't even remotely like your standard cyper-squatting case.
      • In point of fact, Anthony never tried to force himself or his MySpace page on anyone -- the campaign came to him, first requesting, then demanding control of a site Anthony created on his own dime.
      • If public finger-pointing and accusations from your candidate's campaign staff are what you expect after providing two years of grassroots support on MySpace, than I suppose you're right; Joe Anthony got what he deserved.

      I doubt we'll ever know exactly what went on behind closed doors in this situation, but one thing seems clear -- Barak Obama's campaign made a huge mistake in letting this affair become public. No matter how you shake it, Obama has lost some of the squeaky-clean public image he enjoyed before this debacle. Obama's requesting liberal copyright policies for future presidential debates isn't going to fix the public relations issue his campaign created this week, and I suspect he'll be spending a lot more than $50k on damage control over the whole Joe Anthony/MySpace issue.

    18. Re:Good for him by Omestes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More like "your price is too high, and thus I am going to steal it from you with dubious means and no negotiation".

      Thats what gets me, is that discourse was never an option. It was just "I want it, and I will have it". Yes the guy who made the page asked an unacceptably high amount for the page, but still does not justify the Obama campaigns actions. I think Obama could have lived without "ownership" of the MySpace page, and thus resisted ALL headlines about his spending, or lack thereof. The page was in competent hands, and the campaign could still manipulate people using the page (they had full access). The status-quo was not broken. Obama's campaign just want COMPLETE control over everything dealing with their candidate, which I find more frightening than the MySpace ordeal itself.

      As for the registering in his name bit; we must remember that this page is OLD, it wasn't spurred by Obama running for president, but by Obama originally running for senate, meaning this was a local thing and not some big hijacking thing.

      I do wonder how much of this actually involves Obama himself, though, and how much is just an over-zealous campaign manager. At what level was this whole thing initiated.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    19. Re:Good for him by eln · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is that style of speech annoying? Yes. Will they ever stop it? No. Will jamming pencils in your ears keep you from hearing it? Yes. Is is a wise thing to do? No.

    20. Re:Good for him by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But, prior to the MySpace fiasco

      I do not think that word means what you think it means. Fucking up a "cakewalk" land war is a fiasco. Calling a minority a racist name, getting caught on video, and subsequently losing a previously easy election is a fiasco. Soliciting underage boys online and having everyone know about is a fiasco. Lying under oath and then getting caught is a fiasco. This is more like a scuffle.

      --
      Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
    21. Re:Good for him by inca34 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And how comfortable would you feel having someone else, with whom you are not affiliated in any way, run a MySpace page that presumes to be you? If that happened to me you had best understand that I would consider it nothing less than identity theft and a gross invasion of privacy. And I have no doubts that my good friend Tom would help me resolve the situation.

      Is the Obama MySpace incident a reason to not vote for him? Absolutely not. Is it something that could have been done better? Yes, without question. It is nowhere near the order of magnitude of say, GW's business track record, which IS relevant voting information IMHO. Speaking of relevant information for voting, this is it:
      http://www.ontheissues.org/2008_Speculation.htm

    22. Re:Good for him by spun · · Score: 5, Interesting

      From research I have seen recently in economics, it appears that about 15% of people are always prone to good (i.e. fairness, reciprocity, sharing, kindness, loving, etc.) , 5% of people have sociopathic tendencies and will tend to act selfishly with callous disregard for others. The rest pretty much do as their society tells them. That means they will be good in a good society and evil (selfish, dishonest, lacking in empathy, harmful to others, etc.) in an evil one.

      Most societies are prone to evil. Most socioeconomic systems are founded on evil premises. Therefore, most people in the world are prone to evil, but they would be just as prone to good in a better system. Still, your optimism and assumption of goodness are themselves a good thing. "Doing what society tells them" is another way of saying "doing what other people expect of them," and you are doing your part by expecting good things of people.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    23. Re:Good for him by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Obama does not own the myspace.com/barackobama url any more than he owns en.wikipedia.com/Barack_Obama.

      Debatable. I would expect the wikipedia page to be content about Barack Obama, and the myspace one to be content from Barack Obama. Those two sites work differently, you can't equate them so easily.

      The campaign simply wanted the address.

      yes, because that's where you'd expect to find, you known: Barack Obama on myspace.

      --

      My Karma: ran over your Dogma
      StrawberryFrog

    24. Re:Good for him by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 3, Insightful
      This is definately something I can stand behind regardless of which party it comes from.

      So then is it correct to infer that on some issues you may reject an otherwise reasonable position simply because it comes from the "wrong" party?

    25. Re:Good for him by Rei · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The guy was cybersquatting. He wanted half the price of a house plus a high-paying staffer job. It's not supporting a candidate; it's blackmailing a candidate.

      Could the Obama campaign have handled it more gracefully? Obviously. But I don't have the slightest bit of sympathy for a person who creates a site ostensibly to support a candidate, and then tries to use it to leach the candidate out of as much money as he can.

      --
      No, she's fine. My associate is vomiting for a totally unrelated reason.
    26. Re:Good for him by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Uh...no? He didn't create a new page, he got mySpace to hand the old page over to him. By your analogy it's more like asking for the price on a house, balking at it and getting the government to claim it as needed for a park or something then give it to you for no price. (Oh and by the way, someone else did the calculations. 32 cents per friend is not a lot of money AT ALL for a political campaign, they wanted the mySpace and needed a good excuse for taking it so they asked for a price and said he was money grabbing)

      Now then, back on topic, this is actually a pretty good move. While I really don't pay much attention to the debates I'm sure this'll open up more quoting and stuff online so I can catch the good parts. Not a bad move really.

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    27. Re:Good for him by tbannist · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, I think he's more or less correct:

      1) Obama's team started a new site.
      2) They applied to have the url myspace.com/barackobama pointed to the new official site.
      3) Myspace shut down the old fan page because the owner wasn't Barrack Obama

      I don't know if Obama's team intended for step 3 to take place. When you understand the events, it's hard to see this as a black and white issue instead of just an angry disagreement between people. It wasn't handled very deftly, so I guess the lesson for everyone involved is:

      When you act like an ass you get burned.

      That applies to both the volunteer and Obama's campaign staff.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    28. Re:Good for him by chameleon3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What Obama wants is people passing around videos of him on YouTube.


      and everyone else. If you think your ideas are far superior, you want everyone to have access to as much information as possible.

      Wait, why haven't the other candidates proposed this before?

      Disclaimer: I am not an Obama supporter, but I'm with him on this issue.
    29. Re:Good for him by ClosedSource · · Score: 4, Funny

      "Obama does not own the myspace.com/barackobama url any more than he owns en.wikipedia.com/Barack_Obama."

      Sure, that's why they call the site "SomebodyElsesSpace.com" instead of something like "myspace.com". Oh wait ...

    30. Re:Good for him by squidfood · · Score: 3, Funny
      I do not think that word means what you think it means. Fucking up a "cakewalk" land war is a fiasco.


      You mean, getting involved in a land war in Asia?

    31. Re:Good for him by sg3235 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please tell me that at what point the person who created the sire acted like an ass?

      was it when he devoted years of his time for free? Was it when he said he would maintain it for free? or when he volunteered to be part of the staff for free?
      or was it when he wanted a paltry some for years of work?
      I'd say it was when he wanted to be paid for something he was supposedly doing for free. Your sentences don't make sense to me...first you want to hold the guy up for doing all of this stuff for free, when in fact, he wanted paid for it.
    32. Re:Good for him by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 2, Informative

      Pst...Obama's people asked him for a price, he gave one. If you're really going to condemn the guy as someone "in it for the money" when he was asked for a price then you obviously have a different viewpoint than me. For me, if you ask someone for a price on something you don't then balk and go in and get it shut down or whatever, you negotiate and try to get a better price or you give up and let him keep it.

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
  2. Creative Commons is good, but by Dachannien · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'd still like to hear his thoughts on related topics like the content cabal's continuing crusade that confounds consumers' capabilities to copy in conditions commensurate with copyright law.

    1. Re:Creative Commons is good, but by zrobotics · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While I would also like to have more info on what his position is on copyright law, this is still an great thing. Things like this should be in the public domain. Not only is it important for people to watch these debates, but they also need to discuss them, both in their private lives and in public. This gives anyone the freedom to quote the original source, which should be a given in a democracy in matters concerning politics. It may not work out to Obama's advantage; there may be people who use what he said in the debates to discredit him. However, that would happen anyway. Now there will hopefully be a somewhat higher standard of evidence, because bloggers/unofficial journalists will be expected to quote from the original source, and maybe even provide the pertinent video footage. It's possible to take things out of context and twist the meaning of statements, but making the debates accessible to everyone can only make this more difficult.

  3. Interesting. by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's worth noting, though, that if this is just a Democratic National Committee matter, it would of course only apply to the Democrats' internal debate, and not the actual presidential debates which come later. Baby steps, baby steps..

    1. Re:Interesting. by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes... but the debate participates set the rules of the debate and negotiate.. so.. if the democrats say "we won't debate unless the video is CCed... then that is a good incentive to CC the content... As for the Presidential debates... the candidates have even more power to set the copyright standards on those.

  4. Silly Obama... by chrismcdirty · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't you know that nobody profits if it's released under Creative Commons?

    --
    It's like sex, except I'm having it!
  5. i'm conservative, but ... by boxlight · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I'm conservative and I'll probably vote for McCain and/or Giuliani, but I have to say there's a lot to like about this Obama fellow. He seems rather "tuned in".

    boxlight

    1. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... but you'll vote for McCain or Guliani? That's hardly conservative.

    2. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 4, Informative

      You fallen for the trap that conservative == religious nut job. There are lots (I hope the non-vocal majority) of conservatives that don't want to blow up abortion clinics and force religion on people. The same way there are lots of liberals that don't think choice means allowing abortions 9 months into a pregnancy.

      It's easy to label people with extreme views, but in reality most people are somewhere in the middle.

    3. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by danpsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not being from US, I don't wholly understand this attitude of "I am (insert political mindset), therefore I am voting for (insert associated candidate)". Is this a common behavior?

      Ah what you don't get. See, in this country, parties are like football teams. You pick your favorite and defend their bad decisions (play calls) until the end. Even in the face of overwhelming defeat and obvious bias in the referee's calls and penalties, you defend your team until the end. Cuz if you don't have a team, you are a bandwagon jumper! So you must pick your preconceived ideology and vote strictly based on that, despite the value of the actual candidates.

      You've just realized one of the fundamental flaws of this America's government system.

      Political candidates shouldn't be "enemies", they should have opposing viewpoints. The candidate who wins the most arguments should win the debate. But this is America, so all of that logic flies out the window and in the newly ajar window the "political pundits" come in and confuse everyone into thinking that each side did equally well. So that we can continue to believe there are two versions of the truth, and the only difference is which side you are rooting for.

      --
      Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
    4. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by Anivair · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's not a trap, it's called being minimally observant.

      I agree that conservative should not = religious nut job, but that's irrelevant. I'm sure there are plenty of nice moderate guys in the KKK but the guys in charge are wackos, and as a result anyone who supports their organization is supporting hate filled whack jobs and the same applies here. Until the conservatives in this country grow a pair and get someone other than a fundie cretin in charge of their political party, the game is still over and conservative might as well be the same as religious nut job. Because it's the religious nut jobs at the top making all the decisions and the fact that you are probably a nice reasonable conservative doesn't make them saner.

    5. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by Theaetetus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The same way there are lots of liberals that don't think choice means allowing abortions 9 months into a pregnancy.
      You do know that elective abortions in the third trimester are illegal and have always been, right?

      Let me repeat: no one just "decides" to get an abortion nine months into a pregnancy. Even 8 or 7. Again, no one says, "oh, I hadn't made up my mind until now, and just decided to get an abortion." This is documented and figures are freely available online. There has not ever been an elective abortion that late.

      Now, on the other hand, there are very rare abortions performed that late when the fetus is hydroencephalic and has a cranium filled with water and swollen up to the size of a watermelon. The fetus is brain dead, and if left to continue to swell, would kill the mother. This is exceedingly rare, but the only safe way to remove the fetus is D&E. You can do a C-section, but that's major surgery - it involves actually lifting the intestines up out of the body and putting them on the chest so that you can get to the uterus underneath. Scary shiat.

      So, just drop the whole "those indecisive women" meme. It's stupid, dishonest, and is 100% wrong.
    6. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by Hard_Code · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "conservatives that don't want to blow up abortion clinics and force religion on people."

      Please, please, take your party back over. I am not conservative (I think the world is a lot more complicated, and therefore require solutions that do not necessarily extrapolate directly from the minimal precepts of individual liberties, although I do think individual liberty is a fundamental prerequisite; I am left leaning, but also skew very libertarian), but I believe conservative thought is legitimate and honest. I would much rather have an intellectual debate at that level than somebody who may violently agree with me for all the wrong reasons...sometimes a position informed by my preferred ideology will be the right one, and sometimes not (at which point the ideology is irrelevant). Ideology is only necessary when there aren't enough facts for a clear best solution to be obvious (in fact, I'd like debate to move beyond ideology entirely). Yes there are extremists on the left, but I am much more afraid of apocalyptic militant religious nutjobs (that fundamentally reject the notions of individual liberty the nation was founded on) than I am by annoying nanny-staters that want to make me completely safe from everything.

      --

      It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
    7. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by Sancho · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Abortion comes down to whether or not you feel that the fetus is a human being, deserving of all of the rights and privileges that all human beings have. If you believe this to be true, then abortion is murder, and should be treated as such. If you don't believe that the fetus is a human, then there is no good reason to ban abortion.

      Don't think that all people who are against abortion want to take away the choices of other people. They have a fundamental difference in perception of the fetus, which leads them to this belief. To them, the assertion that "You're trying to take away a person's right to choose." is equivalent to saying, "You're trying to take away a person's right to randomly shoot people on the street." It's murder, to pro-lifers.

    8. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by xornor · · Score: 2, Funny

      i just shot my sperm randomly on the street, should i get charged with a murder since one of thoses sperms could have grown up to be a human being :)

    9. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by Cornflake917 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's generally their religious beliefs that leads them to the conclusion that abortion is murder. Pro-lifers trying to make abortion illegal under the idea that their religion tells them it's murder is the equivalent of them telling everyone else , "My religious beliefs are superior to yours, so we have the right to take freedom of choice from you."

      Abortion isn't the only thing that various religions equate to murder. Should all of those actions/thoughts be illegal too?

    10. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by gfxguy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's generally their religious beliefs that leads them to the conclusion that abortion is murder.

      Actually, as he pointed out, you're quite wrong. The religious nuts are the ones blowing up clinics, but the rest of us, like Sancho pointed out, don't even mention religion or the bible or God at all. I don't need God to make me believe in the sanctity of innocent human life. Up until this point,

      On the other hand, I'm not the one going out protesting abortion clinics and so forth - that really is the fringe, and represents a small segment of the anti-choice population.

      Up until now, you were the only one to mention religion at all.

      And no, let's not turn this into an abortion debate or religious debate; a lot of conservatives support Giuliani because he best represents our no-nonsense views. McCain, on the other hand... I used to like him a lot, I voted for him in the primaries, but McCain-Feingold? I just can't stomach suppression of the first ammendment, even when I hate campaign advertising.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    11. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by Jerf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You pick your favorite and defend their bad decisions (play calls) until the end.... You've just realized one of the fundamental flaws of this America's government system.
      No, that's not how it works, and it's trivially provable and obvious.

      That's how it works for the people who speak up, post on the internet, etc. That's always how it works. Few people are assertive enough to post on the internet while not holding a position so strongly that almost no conceivable evidence will change their mind. Those that do are generally ignored, because they do things like talk about the good counterarguments, which is far more boring than spewing bile and invective every which way. This is even stronger on TV since only the most "interesting" handful of people can own a show.

      But if what you're saying was actually true, then every election would turn out effectively the same, regardless of the candidates, and that is not how it works. States swing back and forth, and while the last couple of Presidential campaigns may have been close to 50%, there's been radical alterations in the makeup of Congress in the meantime.

      If what you are saying was true, then the Republicans would still control Congress. Obviously, this is not true.

      This is one of those cases where cynicism of the system blinds you to the truth. Some cynicism is good, but you need to be careful with it. You need to look at all of the evidence, not just the evidence jumping up and down demanding to be heard or that reinforces your cynicism, and consider whether the obvious consequences of some claimed truth are coming true.
    12. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by Jerf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree that liberal should not = nut job, but that's irrelevant. I'm sure there are plenty of nice moderate guys in ANSWER but the guys in charge are wackos, and as a result anyone who supports their organization is supporting hate filled whack jobs and the same applies here. Until the liberals in this country grow a pair and evict the fascist whackos who won't be happy until total thought policing is implemented for The Cause, the game is still over and liberals might as well be the same as religious nut job. Because it's the religious nut jobs (a "secular" religion, but other than the lack of a "God" there's not much difference... and there are often God-like proxies like "Gaia") at the top making all the decisions and the fact that you are probably a nice reasonable liberal doesn't make them saner.

      (Recall the frequent observation that extreme leftist and extreme rightism often merge indistinguishably into each other. I can find liberal whackjobs too; what does that prove about you?)

    13. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by gfxguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's ridiculous - we can say the same thing about any group at all, you can condemn all Muslims "until they grow a pair" and kick out all the "fundies", and then I can certainly condemn liberals for the likes of Ted "back stabbing" Kennedy and Nancy "the happy socialist" Pelosi.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    14. Re:i'm conservative, but ... by Theaetetus · · Score: 2, Informative
      Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but where do you get the idea that a C-section involves moving the intestines out of the way? My wife had a C-section when our son was born and no such thing happened -- I watched the whole procedure. Are you just talking about C-sections for removing hydroencephalic fetuses?


      In your case, she probably had what's called a bikini incision - low, horizontal, and where it would be covered by a bikini. For emergency C-sections (and hydroencephalic fetuses, and they actually used to do for everyone), they do high vertical incisions, and have to move the intestines out of the way.

  6. If he takes a stand against alliteration by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Funny

    then he's got my vote.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:If he takes a stand against alliteration by flimflam · · Score: 5, Funny

      He actually articulated an aggressive argument against alliteration.

      --
      -- It only takes 20 minutes for a liberal to become a conservative thanks to our new outpatient surgical procedure!
  7. Brilliant... Maybe by cyphercell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If he truly beleives he is the best man for the position, then opening the debates is brilliant. If however this would easily back fire in a matter of weeks, as opponents grab at the documents and hack away. Either way I think it's a pretty good idea for a democracy. So long as the originals are preserved for reference.

    --
    Under the influence of Post-Cyberpunk Gonzo Journalism
  8. w00t by igotmybfg · · Score: 2, Funny

    how cool is that, a suit who gets it...

    1. Re:w00t by faloi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll believe he "gets it" when he goes back to some of his big donors in the entertainment industry and starts asking them to consider backing initiatives that support consumer rights and fair use. Until then, this isn't much more than a publicity stunt.

      --
      "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
  9. Check by Threni · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok, that's the `keep the nerds happy with something to do with copyright` box checked.

    Wake me up when he declares that he'll see to overturning the absurd patent laws should the US electorate vote a black guy into power.

    1. Re:Check by Hobart · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ok, that's the `keep the nerds happy with something to do with copyright` box checked.
      OP is on the mark with this line. It's very nice to see Obama making a reference to CC ... but, what's this over here on Lessig's blog? (reads TFA) Pay closer attention! Obama's request is that they
      1. WAIVE THE COPYRIGHT AND PLACE IT IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN , or barring that,
      2. place it under (SPECIFICALLY) the Creative Commons (Attribution) license. (Yes he specified one: http://creativecommons.org.nyud.net:8080/licenses/ by/3.0/ , if it's down, here's Wikisource of v2.5 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Creative_Commons_Att ribution_2.5#English )
      Reading the /. summary neither mentions the public domain, nor makes it clear that Obama's letter shows an understanding of the distinction between waiving copyright and licensing.

      Article summarizations that give half the story like this are why rms has to be such a pedantic language lawyer when speaking. Clarification of the article would be appreciated, scuttlemonkey.

      --
      Slashcode bug # 497457 - unfixed since December 2001 - Go look it up!
      --
      o/~ Join us now and share the software ...
    2. Re:Check by theophilosophilus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Obama's letter shows an understanding of the distinction between waiving copyright and licensing.

      The parent makes an excellent point. Also I want to point out that it's not very surprising that Obama knows the distinction between waiving a copyright and licensing, he has a JD from Harvard and taught constitutional law for over ten years See Wikipedia

      --
      Why have 1 person driving a backhoe when you could employ 20 with shovels?
  10. Specificly... by Applekid · · Score: 4, Informative

    Specificly, from TFA:

    "The letter asks that the video from any Democratic Presidential debate be available freely after the debate, by either placing the video in the public domain, or licensing it under a Creative Commons (Attribution) license."

    There are many kinds of Creative Commons licenses, and not all of them are as permissive as the requested one.

    --
    More Twoson than Cupertino
  11. Actually, it might help if the networks say 'No' by ip_freely_2000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A situation like this may force a more serious, mainstream debate if the networks were to dig their heels in. I think the problem with DRM, IP and copyright is the fact is that there has not been a situation like this that the public as a whole can really understand. So here's to hoping we take one step back to take two steps forward.

  12. All set for Lettermanisms by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, he's all set for high-quality editing jobs that will take quotes like that and produce nice little YouTube videos that say:

    "I am a strong believer in ... restricting ... citizens. We should ... make sure that our ... networks benefit from them in all ... ways."

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  13. Good first step, but let's see more. by laughingcoyote · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm not convinced he's not just "throwing a bone" here. How about a campaign promise to veto any copyright extensions or new restrictions that come across his desk? To work to scale back the DMCA, and work the Mickey Mouse Copyright Extension Act back to a genuinely, realistically "limited time", like the Constitution requires? To ensure that if the Internet streaming royalty increases go into effect, he'll work toward scaling them back? It's a nice thought and a good idea, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not much. If this is to be taken seriously, he needs to do more than promise to release one thing, he needs to be willing to take on the deep-pocket content industry, and in doing so, ensure that their bribes^Wcampaign contributions will go to the other side. Otherwise, it makes no real difference.

    --
    To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    1. Re:Good first step, but let's see more. by laughingcoyote · · Score: 2, Informative

      More technical authority (one vote in Congress vs. 0), probably less, realistically so. Look up "bully pulpit".

      --
      To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
  14. Re:wtf? I think not... by frdmfghtr · · Score: 4, Informative
    Most likely because it IS mentioned, third line, first paragraph...

    Dear Chairman Dean:
    I am writing in strong support of a letter from a bipartisan coalition of academics, bloggers and Internet activists recently addressed to you and the Democratic National Committee. The letter asks that the video from any Democratic Presidential debate be available freely after the debate, by either placing the video in the public domain, or licensing it under a Creative Commons (Attribution) license.
    --
    Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
  15. Re:There's no such thing by Hobart · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's no such thing as "cretive commons license". It's a whole range of different licenses. Which license are we talking about?
    RTFA, AC. CC:A. YHL HAND

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    Slashcode bug # 497457 - unfixed since December 2001 - Go look it up!
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    o/~ Join us now and share the software ...
  16. Re:Or not--or not again! by Moridineas · · Score: 5, Informative

    I spent a couple years living in Hyde Park, Chicago -- University of Chicago neighborhood where Obama lived (lives I guess), represented, etc. He's immensely popular there, and very well liked. Everyone I've ever talked to that has met him, has had good things to say about him.

    Obama is a hard person not to like. Personally, I'm not wild about a lot of his vews--in his two years in the senate he has one of the very most left-wing voting records alongside Kerry, Kennedy, etc. But despite this, he's somehow managed to garb himself in the clothes of a moderate and a uniter? I'm not sure I see that... I'm not sure where in his record I should look to find this either. Despite this though, I like the guy..

    Obama by all accounts HAS kept himself clean (minus some small real estate possible scandal). That's helped him out popularity-wise in Chicago--they carted away current and former politicians by the dozen while I lived there.. Back to Obama.. He's well educated and a powerful public speaker. He's got a definite charisma and he knows how to use it. Perhaps most importantly, he knows what to say--just look at the excitement that has built up around somehow who's been in national politics for two years.

    Honestly, I think one could easily draw parallels between Ronald Reagan and Obama on that front--could Obama be the next Great Communicator? I don't know.. I also have no idea what Obama would actually do, beyond the party-line typical stuff that he has said in the past and/or voted for. Like the p/gp/ggp whoever else said, we don't really have a clue what his platform is.

  17. John Edwards too... by seasleepy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    According to Lessig's blog, John Edwards has also written a letter supporting this idea.

  18. If the man was REALLY into it... by Penguinisto · · Score: 2, Interesting
    ...how come, as a member of Congress right now, he doesn't introduce and fight for a few bills to reform copyright law so as to bolster Fair Use, and to curb the cartels such as the **AA?

    While he's at it, he can do a little politicking to remove software patents, or at least reform it to the point where patent trolls cannot possibly profit (or insanely huge corporations cannot lock out competition with it)?

    It's fine and dandy to talk about wanting CC applied to debates, but he's in a position to make far more fundamental changes in his current Congressional position. Let's see him prove he's more than just a typical politician who likes to mouth a few buzzwords for attention here and there.

    /P

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  19. Re:Or not--or not again! by joshsnow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps most importantly, he knows what to say--just look at the excitement that has built up around somehow who's been in national politics for two years.

    As a non-USian, I have to wonder how much of that is due to the Bush effect. When Bush took over from Clinton a massive conversational vacuum seemed to open up - a chasm of non-communication and verbal gaff. Not to take away from Obama, but Bush would make almost anyone sound good.

  20. Clarification.. by encoderer · · Score: 5, Informative

    I want to clarify some things:

    1. Joe Anthony "locked out" the Obama campaign by changing the password after the campaign rejected his $50k offer. So they no longer had access.
    2. Anthony violated MySpace ToS by creating a site representing himself as Barack Obama. He didn't call it a fan site. He didn't say "People for Obama" or whatever.
    3. Obama didn't take ANYTHING from Anthony EXCEPT the URL. That's it. All Anthony has to do is pick another, more acceptable URL and his page with all 160k friends will be restored
    4. The page was being updated less and less frequently and at the same time it was growing more and more popular. The campaign needed to manage its resource more effectively. Go figure.

  21. Re:A Candidate Not of the People by tbannist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sorry, if I don't care that much. I read the story and when you ignore the sensationalizing, it's pretty mundane. The volunteer decided the campaign was taking advantage of him because they weren't paying him for the site, the campaign decided the volunteer was trying to take advantage of them because he was demanding to be paid.

    While I think this could have been handled more deftly, I generally require more than one minor public disagreement before writing someone off.

    --
    Fanatically anti-fanatical
  22. USG employees' work is pub. domain by Kadin2048 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm not trying to troll, but I've seen transcripts and whatnot of presidential speeches, addresses, and these things broadcast on TV and radio, and I've never noticed or heard of copyright before (unlike sports, movies, TV programs, etc).

    Presidential speeches -- ones actually given by the sitting President -- are in the public domain, as a product of a U.S. government official created during the course of their duties.

    However, a campaign speech that someone gave while running for election wouldn't necessarily be in the public domain, nor possibly would a campaign speech given by the President (since it's arguable as to whether campaigning is really part of his official duties as a U.S. government employee). Now, in reality, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone blocking the publication of transcripts of campaign speeches -- they're usually pretty easy to get -- but I expect that they're copyrighted either by the candidate's committee (the nonprofit corporation that also holds all their campaign money, and employs the speechwriters).

    In addition to that, which would be the copyright on the text of the speech itself, the networks who broadcast the speeches and debates also claim copyright on the video recording (although other networks use clips from each other without formal permission, under Fair Use, all the time: e.g. Jon Stewart frequently shows news clips with the originating network's banner blurred out). It's an open question in my mind whether this is defensible: copyright law in the U.S. doesn't protect "sweat of the brow" or simple movement from one media to another, but it does protect something that is 'fixed' into a medium. The question then is whether, if you record the President giving the State of the Union, are you actually fixing that speech into a medium, and deserving of copyright protection? Or has the President (or his speechwriter) already done the creative act, by writing the speech, and the TV camera is simply mechanically reproducing this. I would like to believe the latter (actually I'd like to have a blanket law that anything recorded, written, spoken, or performed in the U.S. Capitol or any other place where the Legislature is in session is automatically in the public domain, but I'm not getting my hopes up), but I suspect that the courts would probably find for the networks. (There's probably precedent on this somewhere but I'm too lazy to look.)

    But you're right to think that actual Presidential speeches are free and clear; if you want to print out the State of the Union and make it into wallpaper, or perform it in front of an audience, or sing it to your dog, nobody's going to stop you.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  23. Myspace? Uh...this is about NBC by whistlingtony · · Score: 2, Informative

    uhm... I think a lot of people missed the point here... This isn't about the little myspace thing. This is about NBC thinking they own the debates. http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/ 28/0646215 Sheesh..... Way to hijack. -T

  24. Creative Commons isn't copyright-free by DBCooper · · Score: 2, Informative

    Maybe it's nitpicking, but I wish people would get this right. Choosing to license your work with a Creative Commons license does not mean you're giving up your copyright. The contents of my blog are still mine and ©Tim Wilson. I'm simply giving permission to use the contents under the specific terms of the Creative Commons license I choose. In other words, if I select a non-commercial variant of Creative Commons and a publisher includes my content in a for-profit publication, I can still go after them for violating the license.

    The widespread misconception that (Creative Commons == public domain) is holding Creative Commons back from wider adoption.

  25. C-section incisions by hauntfox · · Score: 2, Informative

    I know it's pedantic, but you seem to be confusing your C-section incisions a bit. Getting through the skin and getting through the uterus are two separate issues.

    The "bikini" (Pfannenstiel) incision is the superficial, skin incision.

    The midline vertical incision is also a superficial, skin incision.

    The midline vertical is sometimes used in emergency C-sections due to a relatively rapid entry with minimal blood loss. A skilled obstetrician can usually get into the abdomen with no difference in time or outcome with a Pfannenstiel, provided a controlled OR to work in. In extreme emergencies, such as death of the mother in an MVC, a vertical incision all the way to the baby can be made with no tools besides the scalpel. That is a relatively rare scenario.

    Once through the skin (and fat, fascia, and peritoneum) you enter the abdomen and need to make an incision in the uterus to get the baby out. The choice of incision depends on several factors, including the position of the baby, location of the placenta, fibroids, ability to get the bladder out of the way, etc. That said, the choice of incision is almost always a low transverse or low vertical incision, even in emergencies.

    High vertical incisions don't heal as well and are more prone to rupture in subsequent pregnancies. They are very rare, in spite of your claims to the contrary.

    At any rate, I have never seen a C-section where the obstetrician is "lifting the intestines up out of the body and putting them on the chest so that you can get to the uterus underneath" as you claim in your previous post. It is actually almost physically impossible. I would question the sanity of the obstetrician who tried it to see if it could be done.

    --
    "Ignorance is not innocence, but sin." --Robert Browning