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Teachers Fake Gunman Attack

Anti_Climax writes "Staff members of an elementary school staged a fictitious gun attack on students during a class trip, telling them it was not a drill as the children cried and hid under tables. It'll be interesting to see what happens to these teachers after the charges brought against students in recent months."

32 of 863 comments (clear)

  1. Under the PATRIOT Act... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...this is undeniably domestic terrorism.

    1. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by rblancarte · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If there is one thing that the American populace has never failed to shock me on is their lack of common sense. We are blanketed by tons of laws that are nothing but common sense laws. IMHO, even without the Virginia Tech events in such resent memory, this was a bad idea, and common sense should tell you this.

      I think that there are ways to tackle issues such as this. One is probably the most obvious, talk about it. I think if you want to do something like this, you have to contact parents to alert them you want to do this, and give them the option to remove their kids from this class (and/or field trip).

      These teachers probably cost themselves their jobs as well as any chance to ever work in their field again. And considering their actions, that is probably a good thing.

      RonB

      --
      It is human nature to take shortcuts in thinking.
    2. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by maxume · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Common sense isn't. Anywhere.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    3. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by kannibal_klown · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well not that I agree with what happened, but to play Devil's advocate...

      Some sort of "drill" for these things might not be a bad idea. Panic and poor preparation are 2 major killers in all life-and-death situations, so preparing students for this kind of thing can save lives. Make it dynamic, throwing a few curveballs into the mix (chained doors and such) to help them think on their feet. I mean, fire drills are pretty common and I'd imagine "bomb drills" are done, and let's not forget the "H Bomb Drills" of old (duck and cover!).

      Then again, they approached this thing poorly. They didn't treat it as a drill and instead scared the living goose feathers out of the kids. That's just messed up, particularly since the kids were so young and it was so soon after the VT shootings when people are nervous about such things. That would be like your boss screaming "There's a plane heading for our skyscraper! RUN!" on like 10/12/2001.

    4. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by VagaStorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One of the larger problems with a drill like this as I see it, is that you rely cant prepare for it. You can tell the kids what to generally do in such a situation, but as no incident will be alike, it is very hard. With a fire drill, it is simple, evacuate the building using designated escape routes, if they for some reason are blocked you can discover that and select another route. Whereas in the event of a gunman in the hallway, if your escape route could very well be shooting at you befor you realize its a hinder. What happens during a drill where th students dos the smart thing and jumps from the 3. floor to get away? Bottom line is; if these drill where to be preformed, they NEED to be drills made out by someone who has some clue of what they are doing, which I severely doubt your general teacher do in this situation.

    5. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by Deagol · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Like Texas, where legislators are arguing that guns should be allowed in schools and courtrooms. That logic makes no sense to me...

      (Note: While I live in UT -- as Red as they come, these days -- I'm a liberal-leaning person with a strong belief in personal responsibility. I proudly own and use several firearms.)

      I'm one of those pro-gun folks who does (and did, after VA Tech) suggest that if everyone (or a non-trivial percentage) was packing on campus, that there may have been fewer deaths. I won't mod you down for having a difference of opinion, though. That's just lame -- discourse is a cornerstone of any civilized community.

      Anyway, as to what I quoted from your post... I can't speak for anyone else, but if I were to "go postal" (and were still in control of my mind, as it were) I'd actively seek out a place where I *knew* everyone would be disarmed if they were good law-following citizens. That is, post offices, courthouses, any K-12 public school grounds, many churches (being a private property), and gun-free college campuses like the University of Utah and, say, VA Tech.

      While many would see the logical conclusion to arming *everyone* as a recipe for anarchy and accidents waiting to happen, those of us on the other side of the issue believe that it is wrong (and downright silly) to place law-abiding people at an inherent disadvantage by default for simply following the law. After all, criminals don't give a flying fig about the laws, so they will always have an advantage. There's a good Dark Helmet quote a about Good vs Evil that addresses this very issue. ;)

    6. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by wizzahd · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Some sort of "drill" for these things might not be a bad idea. Panic and poor preparation are 2 major killers in all life-and-death situations, so preparing students for this kind of thing can save lives. Make it dynamic, throwing a few curveballs into the mix (chained doors and such) to help them think on their feet. I mean, fire drills are pretty common and I'd imagine "bomb drills" are done, and let's not forget the "H Bomb Drills" of old (duck and cover!).


      As an owner of a paintball field I'm around guns a hell of a lot. When everything happened at VT and I heard the guy simply walked in and shot people one by one, I was incredibly confused. I could not for the life of me think of a reason why you would watch a man with a gun walk in and start shooting your friends and NOT DO ANYTHING TO DEFEND YOURSELF. Obviously I wasn't there, and obviously there were probably some other circumstances. But out of thirty, what was it thirty two, people not one picked up a desk or a book and chucked it at this guy's head.

      We (in general) have lost our survival instinct. We've lost that 'fight or flight' and we've become sheep-like. "Oh, it's not me. Maybe he'll leave aft- ... OK, maybe after this one." It just blows my mind. Clearly you are going to be freaking out, but when your life is on the line you cannot freak out in a manner that has you sitting in your chair twiddling your fucking thumbs!!

      So yes. Maybe drills are the way to go. Paintball has helped me find my instincts (nothing to get your ass moving like a guy shooting 15 balls a second at you), but I realise that's not for everyone. People just need to be aware that, and this is key, shit happens! You can not plan for everything, but you have to be able to REACT.

      To stray back to the topic at hand, this is really fucked up and these teachers should be fired and given some kind of counseling. Something has to be loose in your head to think this is OK to do.
    7. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by drawfour · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you hit someone in the side of the head with a heavy object (book, large stapler, laptop, chair, etc...) there are a few things that can happen. You may succeed in knocking him out if you hit him in the temple. You may succeed in breaking his nose, causing his eyes to tear up and making it nearly impossible to see. You may hit one of his eyes, causing partial blindness and extreme pain. Or you may just cause him to try to cover his head, giving you or someone else a chance to rush him.

      Any of those are better that laying there and hoping that you're not next. I agree with the GP post, it doesn't seem like anyone even tried to fight for their life.

    8. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by maelstrom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I love how you've never even been to the United States, yet you characterize a nation of 300 million people by talking to a few people who were exchange students. There is probably more difference between a feminist living in Berkeley California and a Baptist living in Alabama, then there is between someone living in Poland and someone living in Germany. If stereotyping millions of people through ignorance is your great example of "European common sense", maybe it isn't such a bad thing that Americans have none.

      --
      The more you know, the less you understand.
    9. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by GreenEnvy22 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree that if everyone had guns, you probably would not see these multi-kill massacres much, however you probably would have many more smaller shootings. If everyone has guns, simple bar fights, road rage, annoying neighbours, and the like can all turn into deadly situations because someone gets stupid and pulls out their gun.

    10. Re:Under the PATRIOT Act... by Scrameustache · · Score: 5, Funny

      The correct plan against a single rampaging gunman seems to be for everybody to rush him. An archer can shoot peons all day long if all they do is run and hide within the base, but he'll only be able to get a few if the entire workforce rushes him. EXCELLENT plan: I'm right behind you...
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  2. Poor judgement by chemicaloli · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With fear of stating the obvious I'll say this: How could teachers show such bad judgement, maybe practising for this type of situation could be a valuable experience, but with professional help and advice as well as parental consent, otherwise it seems like professional suicide and being in the states certain to cause tons of lawsuits.

    1. Re:Poor judgement by VirusEqualsVeryYes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What confuses me is when they decided tricking the students was a good idea.

      The point of drills is not to educate on what to do when you're scared, the point is to educate on what to do in this specific situation. Take fire drills, for example: are students tricked into thinking their school is burning down? No, of course not. The point of the drill is to inculcate the directions that all students must follow in order to avoid chaos. Tricking the students achieves nothing but emotional distress--which is not helpful in any way--and disorder. Drills are there to make the procedure second nature so that disorder does not happen; they're there so that students in distress don't have to make decisions, because the drill spells out all decisions beforehand.

      Parental consent is ALWAYS necessary when anything out of the ordinary happens, especially when said extraordinary thing causes emotional distress. Unfortunately, the article didn't make it clear whether this was teachers acting on their own authority during a field trip, or whether this was sanctioned by the administration without parental consent, but whichever it was, this was stupid, stupid, stupid.

    2. Re:Poor judgement by qwijibo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're right about how drills are supposed to work. This was anti-training. Instead of teaching people how to think about situations and how to react and testing the results, they chose to see how people react under stress. Kids react the way they are taught, and this does nothing positive to reinforce positive reactions. If anything, it taught these kids that their teachers should not be trusted and will like to them for amusement.

    3. Re:Poor judgement by cyclop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Parental consent is ALWAYS necessary when anything out of the ordinary happens, especially when said extraordinary thing causes emotional distress.

      Oh please. Stop this "emotional distress" BS.

      My parents were subject to a LOT of "emotional distress" when they were children. My children father was a refugee from the Italian-Yugoslavia border during the WW II, fleeing to leave most of his relatives (except for his brother and his parents) slaughtered by the Tito army. My grandma, when a child, slept on the ruins of her bombed house. My mother, when a child, lived in Venezuela, with only my grandma caring of her while my grandpa worked 500 km apart and there were earthquakes and revolutions.

      Still, my parents and grandparents are psychologically healthy, very normal people. The fact is: human beings have been created to survive a much more cruel, distressing world than our Occidental world. A little distress is more than harmless: it is actually a benefit, because they learn to cope with stress and bad feeling when still young, instead of waiting too late to discover the world is not made of happy Disney cartoons.

      The only problem with that happening is that children will (wrongly) learn that OMG TERRORISTS are a common, everyday menace, while they should have to fear obesity much more for their lives, for example.

      --
      -- Patent no.123456: A way to personalize /. comments with a sig attached to the end.
  3. In the words of Stan Marsh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dude, this is pretty fucked up right here.

    1. Re:In the words of Stan Marsh by andy666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Completely! It makes me really angry to read, thinking of what my own daughter would feel in this situation. The only real reason that I can imagine these teachers doing this is that they are a fundamentally sadistic. It is incredibly cruel.

  4. Crying "wolf" by Bromskloss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Was it really smart to say it was not a drill? It sounds, you know, like crying "wolf"...

    --
    Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
  5. Learning about authority by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, at least they have started their education in not trusting authority, and learning that those in authority will lie to you. This is one of the lessons that most people don't get, until much later in life.

  6. At least a Disturbing the Peace Charge by Mephistophocles · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Assume everyone is aware of this unfortunate story from a couple weeks ago. My suggestion is that these teachers and the principle do a little time of their own. In fact their sentence should probably be much harsher than the one given to the Chicago teenager. I think most parents would agree that we do halfway expect the teachers and administrators of that school to act more or less like responsible adults.

    --
    Deja Moo: The distinct feeling that you've heard this bull before.
  7. The new "Stop, drop and roll" for the '00's? by screeble · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While I read this article and think "Well, that was fucking stupid." I have to wonder if there needs to be a school-sanctioned version of this concept in place.

    I grew up in US/USSR Cold War times and spent a few schoolday hours a year huddled in the fallout shelter basement during drills. We also had tornado, flood and fire drills. What fun.

    Seems to me that as shootings get more prevalent it might be a good idea to have drills to limit deaths from mass panic.

  8. Re:What Maroons! by inviolet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Take care to remember that when you hear a news item that makes you think any of these words:

    • crazy
    • insane
    • evil
    • outrageous
    • inexplicable

    ...then you have almost certainly been given only half the story.

    These kids won't trust teachers ever again ... and they'll probably have trouble with authority figures for the rest of their lives.

    You say that like it's a bad thing.

    --
    FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
  9. Poor Judgment by devnullkac · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When an adult does it, it's "poor judgment;" when a student does it, it's "a potential threat that must be dealt with seriously."

    --
    What do you mean they cut the power? How can they cut the power, man? They're animals!
  10. Re:Who cares? by uberjoe · · Score: 5, Funny

    How does this classify as Slashdot news?

    Because in about five seconds Jack Thompson will emerge from his hole and say that the teachers in question trained for this fake attack by playing Doom and Counter Strike.

    --

    The days of the digital watch are numbered.

  11. Seriously... by TheRon6 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Did anyone *ACTUALLY* think of the children before they decided this was a good idea?!?

    --
    Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?
  12. Re:Right Idea, Wrong Implementation by digitig · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Considering how (relatively) common school shootings have become, I'm not against the idea of drilling kids on what to do in such a situation. Er, just how common have school shootings become? Relative to what? I thought they were very very rare, and the chance of your or my kids being involved in one was tiny. Isn't that why they still shock?
    --
    Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  13. Re:What Maroons! by VirusEqualsVeryYes · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Take care to remember that when you hear a news item that makes you think any of these words:
    • crazy
    • insane
    • evil
    • outrageous
    • inexplicable
    ...then you have almost certainly been given only half the story.
    Either that, or you're reading about US politics.
  14. It would have been quite dangerous for teachers... by Bananatree3 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Had the students been taught to fight back. Since they were not told it was a drill, it could have been quite a sight with 60 little ninjas armed with pens, rulers and flying calculators. Not a pretty sight to say the least...

  15. NOT a drill by bartyen · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's a statement from the school administrators from the elementary school's homepage:

    http://cityschools.net/schoolsites/se/index.html

    While I agree that the administrators on the field trip might have been a bit boneheaded in pulling this particular prank in light of recent events, it doesn't sound like this was any kind of "drill" at all. They also seem to have done some kind of follow-up with the students' parents after the trip.

  16. Procedures by ultraexactzz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My (catholic) high school had a set of procedures for this sort of thing. A former principal of the school was a priest named Father Schmidt, who had passed away about a decade prior. So, when they paged "Father Schmidt" to the office, it was a signal that there were hostages being taken somewhere in the building. We were to close and lock doors, kill lights, open windows, and huddle against an internal wall - presumably, so that we could be seen and counted from outside the building.

    I remember one year, where they announced on Monday Morning that they would run the drill at some point on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. They paged, we hid, then police officers cleared each room and told us what a wonderful job we had done. That was that.

    A planned drill is fine, these procedures should be rehearsed. But, what if one of these kids tried to be a hero? Someone really could have gotten hurt. These teachers need to be sacked, at the very lease.

    --
    Never underestimate the potential of Human stupidity. -Heinlein
  17. Approval?? by necdeus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't it interesting that schools need parental approval for sex education but no approval for violence education?

  18. Baby Steps... by baboo_jackal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A whole lot of realism right up front isn't always a good thing when you're training for contingencies. I could see the logic if the teachers had gone through an incremental training process with increasing realism and randomness. If their intent was to terrorize young kids while minimizing the learning value of the drill, then, Mission Accomplished!