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Congress May Outlaw 'Attempted Piracy'
cnet-declan writes "Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is asking Congress to make 'attempted' copyright infringement a federal crime. The text of the legislation as well as the official press-release is available online. Rep. Lamar Smith, a key House Republican, said he 'applauds' the idea, and his Democratic counterpart is probably on board too. In addition, the so-called Intellectual Property Protection Act of 2007 would create a new crime of life imprisonment for using pirated software in some circumstances, expand the DMCA with civil asset forfeiture, and authorize wiretaps in investigations of Americans who are 'attempting' to infringe copyrights. Does this go too far?"
Does this go too far?
Yes, this goes too far.
I promise vehement grass roots activism to defeat any elected official, Republican, Democrat, or Independent, who gets anywhere near voting for this. Full stop.
This will not sneak by in the dead of night. We are watching. You are either against this violent insanity, or you are against the voters.
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Attempted Murder?
Yet murderers and rapist get out in less than 5-10. WTF is wrong with our society.
Once life imprisonment for piracy is passed, the only safe software to use will be Free/Open Source.
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again!
If you aren't yet a member of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, now would be a real good time to start. http://www.eff.org/
Looking for hardware (Currently need: Large Etch-a-Sketch) Have one? See my journal!
Attempted copyright infringement? When we can't get our elected officials charged with real, already committed and documented crimes? What is going on in this country!?!
The smartest man in the whole, wide world really don't know that much. - Mose Allison
RTFA
And exactly how is someone going to cause death while committing criminal copyright infringement?
My blog
FTA: Require Homeland Security to alert the Recording Industry Association of America.
Sure that is what everyone intended the anti-terrorism money to go to.
All considerations about copyright infringement aside (legal, illegal, etc), this just makes my blood boil:
" Require Homeland Security to alert the Recording Industry Association of America. That would happen when compact discs with "unauthorized fixations of the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance" are attempted to be imported. Neither the Motion Picture Association of America nor the Business Software Alliance (nor any other copyright holder such as photographers, playwrights, or news organizations, for that matter) would qualify for this kind of special treatment."
Since when did Copyright Infringement become an issue for Homeland Security to work directly with a specific corporation?
Why give only the RIAA this treatment? Do they notify Tropicana when off-brand OJ is smuggled in from Mexico?
"his Democratic counterpart is probably on board too"
Would it be too much to ask that you find out Rep. John Conyer's position - hell, even his name would be an improvement, and perhaps understanding why Rep. Smith is considered "key" (hint: check the committees) - before you start tarring him with the same brush as Rep. Lamar Smith?
-Richard Campbell.
-Richard
You give Congress too much credit.
If this is to pass, what immoral act would next be prosecuted? Being gay? Being obese? Being lazy?
This is clearly an admission by those who support it that they are UNABLE to enforce current laws, and even that they are trying to enforce laws that are thought to be bad laws by enough people that they can't possibly get 100% compliance.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
I don't know ... distributing Gigli and Battlefield Earth might be a start.
FTFA:
Create a new crime of life imprisonment for using pirated software. Anyone using counterfeit products who "recklessly causes or attempts to cause death" can be imprisoned for life. During a conference call, Justice Department officials gave the example of a hospital using pirated software instead of paying for it.
No sig for you! Come back, one year!
If this law passes, I see the following.
(mp/ri)aa will flood the various file sharing networks with dummy files, aka 'master_of_puppets.mp3' that are actualy null files of a certain size.
Random user tries to download file from *aa over the network.
*aa records IP address of user
*aa submits IP information to DoJ
Random user goes to jail for attempted piracy and *aa also files a civil suit.
PROFIT!
An attempt doesn't mean that the act was unsuccessful, it simply means that it was tried. Success or failure are not part of the word (although legally, failure is usually implied).
And as one person said, attempted crimes are often persecuted, with murder as a clear example. Robbery is another.
I'd laugh if I saw this plea in court:
"Yeah I tried to rob the store, but the cop stopped me! Let me go free, I didn't actually do that"
34486853790
Connection too slow for X forwarding? Try "ssh -CX user@host"
This is the type of thing that makes me wish we had a strong third party with different views on copyright. Right now, it's like the insanity of the war on drugs. You have one side that tough on drugs because it's politically smart and the other side is fucking frothing at the mouth because they're fascists. Where's the sanity?
Electric Monkey Pants
Need I remind you the DMCA itself started out as one of those "bullshit bills"...
My credit card number was stollen (by an employee of a bricks and mortar store) and used to buy a bunch of cheap clothing at JC Penny. The credit card company was suspicious and called me for verification. I told them it wasn't me, etc. They canceled the transaction. I asked if they would prosecute the person who stole my card number and they said they couldn't because there was no 'use' of the number, only an attempt which was not a crime.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Not even 250 years ago, the founders of this country willingly committed treason and went to war over laws such as this. Life imprisonment sounds a lot worse than taxation without representation to me. The general population of the United States are not served by this law. We are not being represented. Now, we can't even get the offenders voted out of office. Never mind trying to incite a revolution.
The only good politician is tortured and dead.
Except that Microsoft and other companies are trying to create the presumption that any and all open source software violates someone's copyrights or patents.
Microsoft is almost certainly already lobbying for laws that will place strong legal burdens and liabilities on open source software, with the intent of making it impossible for any serious business to run open source software.
This is going to sound like a screed, but now you figured it out. The implications of the last 6 years of legislative and executive action are damn obvious to academic economists (like me). The "ownership society" the Decider spoke so much about in 1999 and 2000 leads directly to this. Not long ago, Republicans would be very angry and resentful that the government would try and allow monopolies on our collective culture. Now, all politicians are content that well over half this country will be at the mercy of the "Owners." Being an "Owner" won't be easy though, because many, many employers are making employees sign away all rights to inventions, patents, and copyrights devised while at the company (we don't know how enforcable this is now, but will be within 50 years at the current pace). Any worker will never be able to own their own work, and will never be able to enter the "Ownership" class easily.
We will enter feudalism all over again, but this time over access to information. Instead of paying a 60% title to your lord, or paying 35% in tax, you'll be paying 1000s of micropayments to let you do things like sing "Happy Birthday" at your child's birthday, or to load that CD into your computer. Your right to know if there is melamine in your flour will just be more commoditized information, and well beyond your ability to afford. You'll have to buy all your human and property rights back from the barons that own them, if you have the cash.
Democrats stopped being "liberal" about 70 years ago. About 30 years ago, Republicans stopped being "conservative." We are left with two right-wing Authoritarian parties. As disclosure here, I voted for Bush in 2000, thinking he'd be less authoritarian than Al "My wife invented the Tipper Sticker" Gore and Joe "We need to censor video games" Lieberman. I may have been wrong.
See what it has become - something that is exploitable to the extent that people can propose LIFETIME imprisonment.
if anything, any concept or practice comes to this point, it becomes evident that it is wrong and harmful.
lets see what intellectual property has become :
nth generation inheritors still living lavishly on a single book their ancestors had produced 100 years ago, without giving anything to society.
big publishers enjoying a practical monopoly of the creative market, sign on promising talents, and thereby force (or try to force) entire population of earth to go through them to reach mankind's fruits of creativity.
same big publishers are utilizing connections and bribing statesmen so that their monopoly wont be broken, but furthered, in the expense of modern democratic rights and values.
A scoundrel's collection of lawyers, posing as RIAA, extorting and intimidating people arbitrarily, without even feeling the need to provide valid proof before accusing someone and demanding surrender.
combined, all these have reached a point that the intellectual property exploit parties are now insolently demanding that their hold on society be ratified and furthered with LIFETIME imprisonment. get a load of that. This is no less than INDENTURED servitude of 17th century. make one mistake, sign one paper and you are goner.
this is not what free countries of the earth were founded for. in every country every citizen has the right to take up arms against a state that compromises the principles of democracy and unjust. United states was founded in this fashion, and has open statements to that effect.
It is evident that intellectual property concept has to be revised fundamentally, to prevent such abuses and insolence. its current state is a one that it has started actually hampering free trade, freedom of choice, competition and civil rights.
Read radical news here
The GP didn't equate piracy with murder. He merely demonstrated that an 'attempt' can often be, and often is, something we should consider criminal.
So using a counterfeit copy of an OS in a situation that allows the OS to kill someone (let them die) will get me life in prison, but using a legitimate copy of the same OS not getting the publisher of the OS fined, much less any jail time, is somehow OK?
We do not need a new law to cover negligence with respect to death. Such an act is called manslaughter and is already legal. This part of the bill is nothing more than an attempt to make copyright violation literally worse than killing someone.
There is no longer a value placed on human life. Only your potential to increase profits has any meaning. You don't see anything wrong with this?
Most likely, the truth is that it's just too expensive for them to prosecute little things like that, particularly when there were no actual damages that your credit card company was trying to recoup (which would be necessary anyway for a civil suit).
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
This bill may not pass, but who is to say the next bill like this will not pass. The buttholes in congress introduce bills like these to see how much they can get away with. There's a good chance this bill will pass, in some shape. Congress likes to "negotiate" and pass diluted bills through the system.
It's quite possible that Gonzales proposed all these items just so they could "negotiate" the wiretap clause into being passed. Gonzales likely doesn't care about the majority of the items in the proposed bill, he probably is only cares about one or two items. The rest of the bill is likely bait.
I can't help thinking that if the wiretap clause were to be passed, it could be then be used as a defense of all the illegal wiretapping currently going on. On a technical level, anyone using a internet browser could arguably be accused of "attempted" copyright infringement, as your browser downloads the content in order to display it. As such any person with a computer connected to the internet could be wiretapped.
The bottom line is that our congressmen and women need to be smarter than they currently are in order to do their job. Their inability to spot potential exploits like these are going to be our undoing.
I don't know why Congress doesn't just stop fucking around and ban thoughtcrime.
Let's stop dilly-dallying and just change "-1: Overrated" to "-1: Disagree" or "-1: Doesn't Subscribe to Groupthink".
Randall, old Buddy!
Maybe you haven't been paying attention to the news, but nobody in Congress has any interest in listening to what Bush is promoting, and certainly not what Gonzales is selling.
I'm just surprised Gonzales choose copyright to try to change the subject. I'd have thought he'd be promoting a bill to protect children from porn, or something like that. Maybe he's afraid of pulling a Mark Foley?
But how do you define "attempted" piracy? Is downloading a honeypotted torrent the only thing? Or is just logging into the Pirate Bay or ISO Hunt enough?
Let's stop dilly-dallying and just change "-1: Overrated" to "-1: Disagree" or "-1: Doesn't Subscribe to Groupthink".
Ineptitude, or possibly a short attention span?
Mutant Freaks of Nature: "Frighteningly Addictive"
No, silly laws like these are just the attempt to patch dikes that have already broken down. You can't retrofit the water into the ocean just by painting a "do not flow in" sign in big threatening letters on the remnants of the broken dike.
The real solution to this is not more repression, it's legalizing copying of copyrighted material, by imposing a music/movie flat tax on the population; or perhaps just on HDD and DVD media. Everyone is sharing files nowadays, and that's not going away. So let's legalize it, and compensate the copyright holders collectively. That's the only decent thing to do. Criminalizing the whole population for something everyone does is so typical of dictatorships, let's not copy their ruthless style of governance anymore.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
I am a Republican and stand by a lot of what this administration does. However, Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot by getting behind stupid proposals that do little but preserve outdated business models. We've let Democrats appear to be the forward-thinking party by taking bass-ackwards positions on things like IP law. While I'll stand behind the war in Iraq, I'll march against stupidity like this. Expanding the DMCA is a joke.
Sideshow Bob: Attempted murder, now honestly, what is that? Do they give a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry?
What would you call manganese dioxide with a shotgun?
A salt with a deadly weapon!!!
...so yeah, about not quitting my day job?
Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
I don't know why Congress doesn't just stop fucking around and ban thought crime.
very true. It would speed up the creation of the new slave class also known as ex-cons. After all, why punish poor drug users when you can just make them slaves. They have to be poor already because we can see that rich drug users can make it all the way to the white house.
on another note, here in Houston a few years ago I remember Geraldo Rivera had a special about ex-cons driving our metro buses....and how we should be worried about it. What the heck? I want ex-cons to have jobs. If they don't have jobs, I am pretty sure they are going to resort to crime...
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
He says: "Attempted Murder?"
/Assuming it was subconscious.
The first thing that comes to your mind: "Alberto Gonzales"
Hmmm. I don't think you need any more help connecting the dots to your subconscious...
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
I would guess they have decided this is the best way to use that power. Not for the terrorists. Oh, wait.....terrorists harm the value of society. Our US society is determined by the value of the bank account. Money is god here. So I guess this goes hand in hand with the Patriot Act, Wiretaps, Tracking and No Fly lists. "You will be labeled a terrorist for THINKING bad thoughts." I would say that the US is turning into a "Police State" but I am pretty sure it is way too late for that simple assessment.
You keep going until you die..."Me".
I'm impressed by three things in your voting record: that you owned up to voting for Bush, that you voted for Bush because of a plausible assumption that had nothing to do with his rethoric, and that you didn't vote for him again.
I also agree that while your vision of the future is a little extreme, it isn't because Congress and the IP industry isn't trying to achieve it. I'm guessing that the population will wake up before that and put a stop to this insanity. Primarily, I believe that the IP barons (a nice reference to the robber barons - I'll keep using that one) will price information so that most people can afford most of it. They do intend to maximize their revenue, and they can't price everyone out of it. But I do think that this IP gold rush will ultimately lead to exactly the situation that you describe: IP is owned by corporations instead of individuals, and individuals will be forced to buy back their culture and essential information from said corporations.
Now someone go and mod this guy up.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
This pattern is getting old.
1) Introduce bill with ridiculous provisions
2) Public upset over ridiculous provisions
3) Remove ridiculous provisions
4) Pass the rest of the bill, which by itself would still be ridiculous, but now everyone's happy that they "fought The Man" and won.
5) Slowly expand power and scope of existing bill until you can do really silly things with it.
Enjoy getting your computers confiscated by The Man (sorry, "Civil Asset Forfeiture") just because you have Shareaza installed. Also enjoy having Homeland Security (a government agency) notify the RIAA (a private company) when you come back home with a bootleg tape of that concert you went to. Don't forget to smile when you get sentenced to many years in prison and many tens of thousands of dollars in fines because you downloaded MP3's of an out-of-circulation album. I'm sure you all have the tens of thousands of dollars required to fight all that in court and win, right? And you can do without our assets or money or liberty while you're fighting it...
How does that line go again? "... with liberty and justice for all* "
* liberty and justice sold separately
When ya'll get sick of this crap, Canada and Mexico are both just a few hours drive away.
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
If you actually read the bill, the only violation of this bill that could lead to life imprisonment is covered in Section 12, which specifically mentions that this sentence may be imposed on someone who "knowingly or recklessly causes or attempts to cause serious bodily injury from conduct in violation of" trafficking counterfeit goods or services.
That seems pretty damn reasonable to me.
But hey...what do I know? I just RTFB.
Ummm, manganese dioxide is a metal oxide, not a salt. Salts are ionic.
A metal oxide with a deadly weapon still sounds pretty scary, though.
Civil asset forfeiture is certainly effective, but the last thing we need to do is expand the prison industry. Look at what this has done for the "war on drugs" since Reagan signed it into law in the mid 80's - prison population has quadrupled, but drugs are just as easy to get now as they were then.
Copyright and patent violations should not be criminal penalties, period.
We almost do already - take Hate Crimes for instance. In this case you aren't being punished for the action, but for the motivation behind the action. Get into a verbal argument with someone that degenerates into a fight and that's assault and battery. Same situation but with a difference in sexual orientation or race and you could very well find yourself charged with a hate crime. I don't want to be misinterpreted that there is any problem with hate crime legislation - just pointing out that there are already crimes on the book for which a critical component is the thought process/motivation of the perpetrator.
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
With something like copyright infringement, you have a lot to prove, one of which is intent. The only way to really prove intent is to show that Joe Bob made 4000 copies of whatever. Otherwise, you're just making a backup copy for yourself which you are legally entitled to do. Attempted murder is allowed because you actually went out and tried to kill someone. You actually did something that was illegal - like shooting at someone and missing. That means that you had the gun, loaded it, climbed up on the roof top, took aim, and pulled the trigger.
What they're talking about doing is something like revoking your driver's license because you might be involved in accident.
2 cents,
Queen B.
HDGary secures my bank
And hate crimes are bullshit, too. If I beat the shit out of someone, it doesn't matter if they're white, black, aquamarine, it doesn't matter; I'd say some form of "hate" was involved. If a white man beats up a black person, that's a hate crime, but if a black person beats up a white man, that's a rap video. Very hypocritical.
Let's stop dilly-dallying and just change "-1: Overrated" to "-1: Disagree" or "-1: Doesn't Subscribe to Groupthink".
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!
Both of your analogies are god damn awful and show that you seriously don't understand what's going on.
First of all, the original content maker is typically unaware of every single user pirating their content. So the lawn analogy would only work if:
A- The pirate was invisible
B- You were not told of his presence
As for the photo analogy, not everyone makes money from copyright infringement. In fact, most people don't. What if he printed out a giant copy of your Winter scene, framed it, and hung it in his living room. It's not as high quality as it might've been if, say, he ordered a print from you based on the master; in the same way a DVDRip, for example, isn't as high quality as a DVD. He did not profit off of you, and for the most part, you're likely unaware of the transgression even occurring. Is this a crime worthy of such harsh punishment, when even rape and murder often aren't given life sentences?
The two paragraphs that catched my eyes were:
Permit more wiretaps for piracy investigations.
and:
Allow computers to be seized more readily.
This is a fascinating, although a bit not-so-obviously coincidence with what's happening here in germany. One of our politicians, wolfgang schaeuble, currently tries to pass a new law which allows the police and secret services to secretely spy on your computers. All in the name of counter-terrorism. What he tells the german people is that there is a great deal of danger coming from islamistic fundamentals, left-wing fundamentals, right-wing fundamentals. If passed, this law enables the police to spy on literally everyones computer.
This ippa2007 tries to implement instruments which could be used to seize your computers and to wiretap you. All in the name of piracy prevention. If passed it will give the police the means to seize the computers of a majority of U.S. citizens. It can be used to criminalize each and everyone. If passed, this law enables the police to seize literally everyones computer.
Yt,
Gunnar
>>when even rape and murder often aren't given life sentences?
Nail, meet head.
There is a perfect example of what's fucked up in the US.
Rape? Murder? You'll be out in a few years. Armed Robbery? Still be out in a few years.
Punch somebody in the nose while distributing Warez0rs? You're going to Rape Me in The Ass Prison for Life!
I've got a better analogy.
This is slashdot, it's not like the readers aren't familiar with the issue at hand.
Software copyright infringement is like........software copyright infringement.
I think that should encompass all the idiosyncratic details related to the issue at hand without blurring the issue. An imperfect analogy here only serves to derail the topic by bringing to light all the flaws in the analogy rather than the original point of discussion. An analogy is only useful when the issue isn't clear. This is slashdot and it's crystal clear. Points should stand upon their own merit rather than a reference to an imperfect analogy.