Slashdot Mirror
Will Dell Be Bad For Ubuntu?
vcore writes "Many people are excited for Ubuntu's upcoming release on Dell computers, and while it is certainly good news there are a few causes for concern. Very few details have emerged so far so it is not completely clear what impact Dell with have on the thriving Ubuntu community. But there are questions concerning support, logistics, pricing, and a number of other areas that are affected. From the article: 'Dell is in the practice of filling their computers with large amounts of "bloatware" and also all sorts of co-branding, but it remains to be seen what they will do with Ubuntu. It has been reported that Dell will be shipping a standard version of Ubuntu 7.04...'"
Like AOL was bad for the Internet?... Oh wait!
...and as far as I can see VMWare has done nothing but good for Ubuntu.
The Army reading list
several weeks ago when rebuilding an HP machine with XP just got too frustrating and time-consuming. Threw in an Edgy install disk and it worked perfectly. Upgraded to Feisty with no drama. I've been using it exclusively for over a month.
How can Dell be bad for Ubuntu? Yes, I RTFA and I think most of the potential problems are non-issues. The update mechanisms can scale; Dell can help if need be. I can buy support from Canonical or Dell can outsource it to them if Dell can't handle it.
I don't really see the downside. I'd love to see a few completely clueless oldsters accidentally get one of these Ubuntu Dell machines for their first and only computer. Then we'd have converts who simply didn't know any other way.
Even a clueless newbie can figure out Feisty. Now, I think there's another Slashdot post I want to read.
it probably wouldnt hurt ubuntu to put it on the dell pcs- look what it did for windows
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
No, it wont be bad for Ubuntu. It may be bad for any Linux Guru's around making them go prematurely bald by having them rip their hair out when some Dell customer asks them 'Wheres Internet Explorer?' or 'Does this thing have google?' or in the case of semi-knowledgeable find that they've activated the root account and are running everything from there instead of using 'sudo' (yes you can cringe now)
09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
+2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
I don't think it'll be bad for Ubuntu overall. Almost all PC vendors, not just Dell, put bloatware on their PCs, and that's one of the reasons they like Windows, i.e. the bloatware they want to distribute runs on it. That's why I always reinstall Windows after buying a new PC, and then install only the software I actually want.
they are giving such great support for windows already
... they just need a little icon "runs with ubuntu" and "runs not with ubuntu" and i wouldnt mind either
i cannot even install the generic ati driver for my card, although it would work without any problems - have to use those hacked omega drivers instead for it in windows, so actually this article is a bit of nonsense
what support does dell need to give for ubuntu?
answer: nothing, thats why we have those ubuntu forums
just install it on the machines and take care that graphics drivers, sound drivers etc are installed and activated and voila, ready to go
and let them install just so much bloatware as they like - if they wanna get kisses from me, they install a commercial video player for dvd and up
and depending on their other hardware like printers etc
Will Dell Be Bad For Ubuntu?
:)
As long as Mark Shuttleworth doesn't go and do anything foolish like signing cross-licensing patent deals then a big No, but I can guarantee the MS/Novell/Dell deal will be bad for at least two of those organizations. I leave it to you to figure out who exactly
davecb5620@gmail.com
The summary is pitiful. This is not a good/bad question.
Yes, Dell will have to make a huge infrastructure investment just to sell Ubuntu-equipped equipment. Someone PHB with authority at Dell will have to force the various departments to get this stuff done. Typical to a large company, it will probably be done poorly because change is rarely welcomed. It shouldn't surprise anyone that a linux-equipped Dell will probably be more expensive than windows.
There are two much bigger questions:
1. How will Dell structure Ubuntu sales? PHB's will, at some point, review Ubuntu sales and decide if it generates enough ROI to continue. How that ROI will be defined will heavily influence whether or not they stick with it. This is where politics meets the accounting department and decides the fate of this effort before a single unit is sold.
2. How will Microsoft respond? I'm thinking this is really more of a stick to beat Microsoft with more than anything else.
I don't really want Dell selling Ubuntu-equipped PC's. It will be bad for distro diversity.
Got Trader Joe's? friendwich.com RSS feeds work now!
1) Exposure to something, whether good or bad, is good. More people will, at the very least, know what Linux is now.
2) Anyone who actually chooses to install Ubuntu over Windows will probably either have the motivation to try something new, or they'll already know what they're doing.
3) The FOSS community should be embracing and celebrating this. This is a huge step for Ubuntu and Linux in general. The general computing public is now seeing more alternatives from the big beast in Redmond. The more they see choice, the more likely they will be to choose - either now or in the future.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Dell supporting Ubuntu is EXCELLENT!
But, please, remain in contact with the mothership - Debian.
I've chosen to ween my regular free support requesters from their troublesome software, to eventually switch them to a Linux operating system all together.
First I've convinced them to use Firefox. I've gotten inconsistent results from users. But most are pleased. Next I've been talking people into ditching whatever mail provider they currently use, their ISP or Hotmail or whatever, in exchange for gmail. The results are generally positive. The last big hurdle for "average users" is a productivity sweet to replace MS Office (which I've found is rarely licensed anyway). OpenOffice.org works GREAT for about 99.99% of their uses and that last tiny bit can be done some other way. I've also personally had good results from Google's online stuff. But I haven't actually set anyone up using either of these solutions yet.
The last thing to do is install a free OS and let them keep using their existing apps and services. Personally I think that Google's solutions, Firefox, and Open Office are the best tool for converting troublesome 'computer dependents' to Linux, and eliminating the vast majority of our problems. The best part is, you can get them using all these options before you take Windows away from them.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Part of the attraction of Linux has been that the user community consists of a select group of highly informed individuals. A few years back, only those "in the know" had heard of the OS at all. Even now, it primarily appeals to those comfortable with OS installs and compiles from the command line. The Dell support for Ubuntu lowers the bar considerably, democratizing access even -- dare I say it -- going so far as to turn AOL users into Linux users. This is indeed a frightening possibility to many, but I am convinced that Dell's support is a good thing and a goal that many Microsoft bashers have advocated but never actually expected to come to pass.
So now we must move on to the next battlefields wherein the truly geeky may differentiate themselves from the huddled masses yearning to break free of their (Redmond wrought) chains. Certainly some will fight bitter battles over which distribution is best. Others might even start using BSD, much to the Netcraft-troll's dismay. Some might even quit whining and start writing some code.
Okay, I admit that last possibility is far fetched, but one can idealistically dream.
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
I just installed Kubuntu on my mom's new computer. She's 78. She simply gave me a list of the things she wanted to do with her computer (web & email, mostly). The only thing beyond the stock CD I installed was Firefox with Adblock Plus. So far, she likes it.
This is funny. Dell has only recently decided to acknowledge Linux (technically for the second time), and people already found something to worry about! After years and years of moaning and whining that Dell sells Linux, it's suddenly a possibility that Dell may be bad for Ubuntu.
I have a little folk tale for this situation, coming from Bulgaria where I'm natively from.
Peter was a very poor villager. He was saving some money to buy eggs and grow chickens with which to feed his family. One day he took the money, went to the market and bought the eggs, then headed to home.
On the way, he started thinking "nice, nice, nice, I have 4 fertile eggs, from those eggs I'll grow 4 chicken. Those chickens will give eggs, and they'll grow into chickens too. I'll soon have hundreds of chickens, and I'll buy a farm house to keep them in. Those hundreds of chickens will give me hundreds of eggs, which I'll sell, and I'll buy four cows. Those cows will have many calves, and each of them will grow into a cow and all those cows will give me lots of milk. I'll be rich, and buy a second farm for my cows and calves. I'll buy a house in the city, and meet with the mayor and all important people. People will recognize me on the street and say, hello Peter! That'll be great!"
And while he was thinking about all those things, he tripped in a stone and broke the eggs.
Have you *tried making Ubuntu's windows turn sideways 45 degrees so that they kinda look cool and overlap a bit? It takes *hours!
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
We've all heard the joke about how cars would behave if made by Microsoft, but how about if they were made by the Open Source Movement?
1. The car would come in a kit, and would have to be assembled by hand.
2. The instructions for assembling it would be free, but so poorly written you'd have to hire specialists, who would in the end cost more than a Microsoft car
3. The gearstick would be designed by EMACS fans. It would be powerful, and feature rich, but changing gear would be an 18 step process designed for a driver with 4 hands.
4. If the passenger wanted to read a map, he'd have to enter the driver's seat in order to get permission.
5. The steering wheel would be gone. In its place, an "innovative" interface designed by the Blender and Gimp teams, consisting of 2 dead fish and a broken plastic spatula.
6. Richard Stallman would insist the vehicles be described as GNU/Cars.
7. It would be broken into as frequently as Microsoft cars, despite it's much touted security claims. Joe Sixpack couldn't be bothered to lock the door on his MS car, and he can't be bothered to lock it on his GNU/Car.
8. In car entertainment would consist entirely of items cloned from Microsoft.
9. Your grandmother wouldn't be able to drive it.
This is something I hadn't thought about before, but I wonder if Ubuntu is going to work with Dell to make what ever version they ship with be a LTS (long term support) release, or if Dell is just going to ship with the newest version of Ubuntu all the time? The last LTS release was Dapper Drake (6.06) and last I've heard the next release, Gutsy Gibbon, was not going to be a LTS release.
I'm a ninja?
I don't expect Dell to be doing much of the Ubuntu support at all; I think that's going to be Canonical's role
Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
Maybe you could set up a system of download repositories containing vast collections of open-source software, and include with the distribution a GUI app which would make installing such software as easy as selecting it from a menu...
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
If the wheel never was invented, we whould have flying cars.
Easy:
1. There will be reliable market research on Linux desktop penetration. This means the start of a new startup/IPO bubble that will do much more harm than good.
2. The most important aspects of Free software that actually drive innovation will be abandoned for hybrids like Ubuntu. These hybrids will not support the Free software components. Look at Redhat for an example of how this works. They've got sort-of-free software and lots and more and more proprietary software that goes on top of their sort-of-free software. Please don't diverge from this point and start talking about their contributions and PR stance regarding Free software.
3. Free is not a business model. Mark is sinking a fortune into Ubuntu at this point and will expect to make a return on his investment at some point. After that, the Ubuntu honeymoon is over.
Got Trader Joe's? friendwich.com RSS feeds work now!
Why would dell's plan to ship Ubuntu be bad? I don't think a lot of retards are going to be wondering "where's internet explorer" because said retards will just get Vista, the retard operating system of choice. The people that are going to be picking Linux as their OS either already use it or are mentally capable of switching. My father, for instance, just switched the computers in his house to osx AND linux after getting fed up with Vista (and not wanting to go back to XP). He has had no problem with either OS, and he only ever calls me up for help when he has some esoteric question about how Linux works.
Dell may even be able to make the situation better for the Ubuntu (and general linux) community by increasing the user base and potentially helping with drivers, funding, etc. After all, they have their precious reputation at stake and it is in their best interest to see Ubuntu succeed and improve upon itself, if only to make their own customers happy.
In the 500MHz days, I tried Mandrake Linux, which I was told was "as easy as Windows". "It finds all your hardware and just works." After spending a month trying to get it on the network and talking to a Windows share (with some success), I decided it was just too difficult, like the previous post is saying.
That was then, this is now. I installed Ubuntu Feisty on 2 laptops and it just worked. All the hardware really was found and installing programs with--ready for this--the Add/Remove Programs menu option...is brain-dead simple. Connecting to network shares is just as easy as Windows. In some cases, I have gone to the command line to install something, but 99% of the time, it's just:
Ooh, that's hard.
The biggest problem was that I had to type in 3 command-line commands to get a wireless network card to work. But on Windows XP, I had to call India 3 times to do the same thing, so what's really easier? Hint: the command line was much faster...
Linux is no longer a frustrating command-line-ridden exercise for a Windows user. In fact, if you are already using Firefox and OpenOffice, which I was, you will find it to be very similar.
I have found Linux equivalents for most of what I do. Also, I have gotten many programs to work under Wine just fine. I haven't even found the need to install a Windows virtual machine yet, and it's been over a month.
All that to say, your comments are a little outdated. I thought the same as you did until Vista frustrated me so much that I gave Ubuntu a spin.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Try explaining that to your grandmother over the phone. It might be impossible in Win but frankly I'd take the inability, over having to spew out lines of commands. Dell will NOT sell systems with Linux on them. When ordering, Grandpa Joe will ask "what's a Linux". The Dell rep will reply "well, it's this different operating system". And grandpa joe says "what's an operating system".
Done Windows update recently?
Nearly every time a Windows update completes I am required to restart. In fact, if I -don't- restart I'm presented with a pop up every 5 minutes reminding me that I need to restart.
If you just want to look at software and not OS updates, typically any software that installs/updates a driver or registry entry requires a restart upon completion.
Doing a new windows install from fresh to fully patched and all software/drivers installed requires me to restart 3-5 times. Doing the same on most Linux distros maybe requires one.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
If we had flying cars, my kitty would be safe, but my parrot would dead...
Give Kashyyyk back to the Wookies
Turn the pop-up off. If you shut down affected services before installing the update, you don't need a restart anyway.
gpedit.msc -> Local Computer Policy -> Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update
Set "Re-prompt for restart with scheduled installations" to disabled.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
Years ago, I could have done it in 30 minutes or less. Just give a 5th of JD and the windows were absolutely guaranteed to be in various degrees of sideways and even upside down.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
... Dell verifys the hardware to be compatable with the release of ubuntu that it ships with it's hardware.
Considering Ubuntu itself has a paid line of support....
Turn the pop-up off. (...)
gpedit.msc -> Local Computer Policy -> Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update
Set "Re-prompt for restart with scheduled installations" to disabled.
Judging by the standards that are usually applied to linux distros I conclude that Windows is not ready for the desktop.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Judging by your post you're not ready to administer Windows on the desktop. It's more fun to side with FUD than to learn something outside your current realm of knowledge.
You are a moron. The expression "ready for the desktop" precisely means "usable without any special skills whatsoever".
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns