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Study Reveals What Women Want From IT Jobs
amigoro writes "Ever wonder why there are so few women in the IT workplace? It turns out that the typical recruiters sales pitch, which emphasizing job promotion and security, acts to keep women out of the information technology jobs. While about 30 percent indicated they valued careers that afforded them opportunities to perfect skills in technical areas, others said they wanted careers with managerial opportunities. In addition, there was little overlap among the women who reported that managers give up technical skills to develop management skills."
I'm apart of an Enterprise network support group and we have zero women involved.
IT isn't a place for the ladies. No one cares how you look as the others on my staff display in their daily attire. You can't get promoted by sleeping around. Management is married or single (and not by choice) so sleeping your way to the top isn't possible. And finally we, the men, tend not to backstab or sabbotage our co-workers as we often need backup and like maintaining a drama-free enviornment.
CAPTCHA: sleeps
So, what they want is control NOW ?
While the rest of us toil to perfect our skills and move up the ladder, they want to be on top?
Damn, next they will want the damned TV remote, too.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
Why do we care why women do or do not go into IT? I don't mean this as a flame, I'm just curious, because all the tools are there for women that are there for men. Computers cost as much for a woman as they do for a man, google searches work as well for women as for men, and O'Reilly books are as easily opened by women as by men. Why separate these studies on the lines of gender?
Maybe I do not understand the reasoning or am taking it emotionally,
but I think it's a little unfair to have managers who have little or no experience in the respective field.
It's much easier to respect a manager who knows her stuff and understands the work well rather than a fresh-out-of-college MBA.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Unlike men, who apparently only have a single value and motivation for choosing their career.
Really, I don't get the whole article. They claim there's not many women in IT because recruiters tout the chances for promotion and job security. I have my doubts that anyone, male or female, goes "Man, this job has security and I likely won't be looking for work in 3 months? Well the hell with that. I don't want this job." As to the chances for promotion, does that not fit right in line with the women interviewed and quoted who say they want to move up into IT management?
And then of course there is a question that I always have. If there were few women in IT because they were being told they are too stupid to understand computer or something, I get how that would be a problem. If there's not many women in IT because the type of work and the rewards that IT jobs typically offer are not what many women want, though, then what's the big deal?
See, which is weird because a lot of management folks that I work with are all big-time geeks (theoretical physicists from Bell Labs, just as an example). Do they do physics now? Of course not, but that does not mean they don't do interesting, technical stuff.
For example, I know management folks with technical backgrounds who keep up to date on projects, who want to know what's going on and will even have a good technical debate with you.
At the end of the day, it's not all cut and dried. There are people who are interested in keeping themselves technically skilled and people who aren't. Just like everything else.
I don't see why there needs to be a dichotomy.
Who cares?!
Women should do what men do. When a man wants a job, he works and qualifies for it. He does what is expected by the employer. And if it doesn't work out, he does something else.
I don't think it's too much to expect women to play by the expectations of business people. You can twist and spin things any way you like, but the bottom line is that what we are talking about is business changing to meet the expectations of a specific subset of employable people. It just doesn't work quite that way. We're not talking about "challenged" [disabled] people unless you would like to reclassify women as being challenged or disabled in some way. What we're talking about is that somewhere between 45% and 55% of the general employable population who are making a decision about whether or not they want a job based on the criteria and expectations of employers for any given position... in IT or otherwise.
I think it's lovely that women want extras and allowances from their workplace. And hell yes, if an employer WANTS to provide those things then great! There's a match and life goes on happily ever after. I want extras and allowances too! I don't often get them, but that's not enough for me to not work for a living. But what are we talking about? Employers being compelled to provide for women as if they were some "special needs" group? To me, "special needs" people are mentally challenged, sensory challenged or mobility challenged people. If women by virtue of their gender can qualify under one of those categories, then they should probably be afforded special treatment. If not, then why are we always talking about this?!
Why aren't we talking about why there aren't more men doing jobs that are generally populated by women?
I hold there is an idea best identified as "different but equal." We shouldn't be concerned whether or not women want to be involved in a certain profession if that is their choice. If they want it, they will do what other people who want it do. If they would rather not do what it takes, then they shouldn't do the job... and that's largely why they don't I'm guessing.
Would *I* like to see more women in IT? **YES** I like smart women who can appreciate the things I appreciate. That's just about every geek's desire. It's rare, it's a pity, but it's life.
If you read the board, you'll see why.
...and to think I argued with someone last week in defense of IT. "nooo..guys in technology aren't misogynistic"
I mean, damn. Most of the posts read like they are out of a steelworkers union after-bar party.
If you're in technology for the money, there would seem to be easier ways ( marketing, stock trader/finance ). Perhaps, if this is the motivation, a different path might be better?
However, this ( also from TFA ) seems to be spot-on:
So, if you're a bitter control freak ( All programers and DBAs, raise your hands. Yes, you too. Mine is up as well.) welcome home.
What's interesting from TFA is 18 of 92 respondants quoted the first motivation, while 28 quoted the second. What, did the other 46 pick "other"?
A Human Right
From the Article::
"My parents said we are [only] paying for four years of school and I could
not become a lawyer in four years", 48 year-old CIO said. " I just said
okay, well I want to make a lot of money and so what is the next best
thing? And I did the research and the computing industry was the next big
booming thing"
My first thought:
I have noted throughout my career that the worst IT people are those who are in it for the money or treat it as just a job.
Those managers and co-workers who have a true passion... those who live and breathe for technology: they're the ones that actually get stuff done.
The Digital Sorceress
My mother raise seven kids and has watched 13 grandkids grow up. Her observation is this (and it hold true for IT) When two brothers get in a fight they punch each other and are playing nice in half an hour. When two Sisters get into a fight they never really have it out and just pick at each other for days! And as with anything there will be exceptions but on the macro I have watched my nieces and nephews and it is, by and large, true. I have worked in environments that are 90% female and some that are 90% male and the amount of back stabbing that goes on in a female environment is, in my completely unscientific experience, far greater. Would I hire a woman in IT? In a second because I am all about the person not the class but I wont tolerate for a second games, I have a deeper tolerance for two people yelling at each other during a meeting than quietly stewing so they can talk about it with other later. Political Correctness is a joke its not about thin skin its about manipulation to accomplish social ends..
For starters, that is half of the ppl who use computers. Secondly, it offers new insight on how to do things different. I have no issue with trying to bring in more ppl esp. if it takes just a bit of work. The problem comes in, when you have a group who is basically saying that they do not wish to do the real work, but want to manage. I already have enough CIS type managers who I have had to explain WHY a hash table is of use or why their bubble sort approach will not work, and they still try to push their ideas.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Warning! Dangerous generalizations lie ahead!
Unlike men, who apparently only have a single value and motivation for choosing their career.
While that's not quite true, it's far more accurate when describing a man than a woman. Socially, men are judged and measured by their occupation and potential as a provider. If a man works a laid-back, 25 hour a week part-time job because his spouse allows him to do so, he's a lazy bum; for a woman, it's a perfectly acceptable decision as far as society is concerned (although how an individual woman feels about it is up to her).
Far and above all other standards, men want a decent salary and job security, and they're willing to put up with a lot of crap to get it. According to Department of Labor statistics, for example, 90% of on-the-job deaths are men, and men work more hours both in fullt-ime and part-time jobs than women; Men will take the dangerous, filthy, and more time-intensive jobs because of the extra pay associated with them.
Women certainly value good pay and stability, and this study isn't questioning that. Rather, it is saying that opening a book and saying, "Look ladies, we have good pay and stability" isn't the deal maker that it is for men. Socially, women can afford (more than men) to demand additional perks from a job. We're all familiar with the list: flexible hours, jobs that focus more on interpersonal communication, etc. Again, a total generalization but true when looked at as a total generalization.
In essence: if you are an HR manager, part of your job is to bring in diverse employees. The reasons for that are certainly debatable, and I agree with you that it shouldn't be as big of a deal as some make it out to be. But if you are an HR manager, and if you are attempting to recruit more women, you should probably rethink your sales pitch.
> So, in other words, they don't want to work in IT.
Exactly, they don't want to WORK in IT... but if offered on a silver platter they might consent to starting right into a management position in the IT Dept. Yes I know management skills aren't the same as the ones needed for hands on stuff, but it damn sure helps if one knows SOME of the skills your underlings use, if nothing else it allows you to communicate in ways that don't look ripped straight from the pages of Dilbert.
And because of quotas and fear of the EEOC I suspect quite a few are getting exactly what they are asking for. God only knows it is the only explanation for how Carly ever made CEO at HP. Ok, that wasn't nice.... but probably true.
Democrat delenda est
I know it's a joke, but I kind of feel sorry for the suckers that do work overtime at a job. I think a person ends up devaluing their life a lot while working significant overtime. In IT, that basically shows the lie of technology meaning a better life. A few hours here and there is fine, but consistent overtime is stupid.
Because we live in a politically correct world where every disparity is a racist and/or sexist and not just because people are different.
This whole pandering idea is ironic because only nerds have low enough self-esteem to care MORE about what women want as a gender, than they care about what men want. It's about PEOPLE, not gender. Kissing up to women is gonna get you friended, not laid. Who gives a shit what women as a whole want? Most of them are jackall stupid and egocentric, just like the average man. I care what individual beacons, individual people of worth want. People talk about appreciating diversity, but then they cram the differences and distinctions down your throat so damn much, you begin to resent the beneficiary of the damn cramming.
"30 percent indicated they valued careers that afforded them opportunities to perfect skills in technical areas, others said they wanted careers with managerial opportunities"
Which is why they don't work in IT. You don't get to 'perfect your skills' without freelancing, and you *don't* go into IT for managerial opportunities - at least, you don't tell anyone that; the managers get a little insecure...
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direction.
What do women want in IT jobs? The same as everyone else: An opportunity to pursue whatever goals they have through the job. If, on average, they have different goals, the jobs they take will look something different.
My grandmother introduced me to computers when I was 5 (back in 1981). She programmed her physics models in Fortran and ran them on big mainframes and not quite so big computers (still huge by our standards today), and was a pioneer in her field of astrophysics. She had a lot in common with many women in IT today and felt that it was a mistake to focus on bringing more women into the field when we should be focusing on more fundamnetal goals instead.
The basic issue is: in IT as in astrophysics, you are only really good at your field if you are borderline (or more) obsessive-compulsive. You can't just work in the field-- you have to live and breathe the field most of your waking hours nearly every day. It is a lifestyle more than a career. And it is found in mathematics, physics, etc (all fields dominated by men). Indeed this may say more about balance in life (and a gender gap in that area), and an ability to avoid letting one thing overwhelm the rest than it may say about aptitude in the field per se. Think about all the jokes about Slashdotters and girlfriends (or engineers and girlfriends, for that matter) and ask how many women want to be in fields where such jokes are made as at least representing some version of the reality of those who work in them.
My suggested solution is to stop thinking about what we can do to lure women into jobs that they don't want and instead focus on architectures of participation. The goal should not be "why don't you want this job" but instead "what do *you* want to do? How do you want to participate?" THis requires a fundamental shift of a company away from top-down management into something more organic or community oriented.
Think of it this way (for the men out here): If you were a registered nurse and everyone always asked you, "Why don't more men go into nursing?" would that be helpful or would it dissuade you from promoting others going into the field? Wouldn't it be better if we focused on redefining the field such that it could be more inclusive of people with diverse goals so that more people could contribute what they could?
We are also going to have to admit at some point that gender roles are going to eventually play into peoples' career choices and that some fields are going to be dominated by people from one gender or the other. This is OK and healthy by itself and without other factors, not worth worrying about.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Nope, not really. They'll cry on your shoulder but still screw the guy who treats them like shit. Chicks dig assholes.
In the end... Candy is dandy but liquor is quicker.
And on the other side of fence... For every hot chick you see there is at least one guy tired of banging her.
I'll start taking articles like this seriously when I start seeing articles about computer programming in women's magazines.
I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
Sexist hiring practices?
There are plenty of managerial opportunities in IT. There's a lot of demand for project managers who know about the kind of work the project involves. Like programming.
I keep hearing at performance reviews that it's exactly my managerial, administrative, customer-oriented skills that are lacking. I'm bad at those things exactly because I want to be a programmer, but apparently, being a programmer in the real world involves just a bit more than simply coding all day long. If female programmers want that, please come work for us.