A Digital Picture Frame Without the Lock-In?

The Cisco Kid asks: "My mom, bless her soul, doesn't quite get the concept of digital photography. She always complains that we never print them out for her, and gets completely flustered at the idea of looking at them on a computer. I'm thinking of getting a digital photo frame for her, only I can't seem to find one that fits the bill. I am aware of the possibility of building one, and may end up going that way (most likely using a laptop), but I'm really hoping I can find a consumer one that meets my needs — and that's where things get tricky." One of the major features that is required is the ability to update the frame over the network, without the need of any third party software. Has anyone seen a digital picture frame that doesn't tie you to a piece of proprietary software or a proprietary network? "I'd like to be able to hang it on the wall, and leave it there, so I want to be able to update/add pictures to it over either a wireless or wired network. I've found very few that have networking capabilities, but I can't seem to find any documentation as to what application-layer protocol they use. For example, I've found one that only connects to the manufacturer's website, to which you must subscribe — there is no option to use the network, directly. Kodak seems to only support using their proprietary Windows-only software for controlling or updating their frames (and I don't use Windows).

Is anyone aware of anyone that makes a reasonably priced digital frame that has networking and uses open protocols? Or should I expect to be taking apart the display hinge of a used laptop in the near future?"

Comments

Flash memory card?

[bernywork]

I know it's a pain, but there are a few out there with flash memory cards, can't you talk your mum through copying files to a memory card?

It's the best option out there I have seen and know of a few people who have made this work with parents. You could even send her a memory card with photos on it so that she can just put the memory card in and turn it on.

I would throw in a couple of links at this point to different products, but I have no idea where you are, so giving local product is a little difficult..

Re:Flash memory card?

[Chanc_Gorkon]

NO! Better yet, just send mom a new memory card every month and bam....new pictures of the kiddies! NO network required and it's something MOM might understand!

Use a DVD Player

[maxwells_deamon]

We gave my mother in law a portable DVD player.

The one we bought takes CDs with pictures on them and also takes SD cards

It will run them as a slide show, I assume that will work

You have to be a little carefull how you format things and send the photos to her but it does work and requires no subscription.

A few out there

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.photovu.com/ - expensive but nice. There are others out there.

http://www.boyink.com/splaat/comments/diy-digital- picture-frame/

Yadda yadda google works wonders for this :P

I can't wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait to goatse.cx all of my neighbor's wireless digital picture frames.

Dunno about network-attached, but....

[g1zmo]

I bought one (Coby, I think) for my own mother last year, and it uses a CF card for storage. You just put all of your pictures on the card and stick it in the back of the frame and it automatically displays them slideshow-style. It has a little remote control you use to configure various settings like slideshow speed, or to just display a certain image or whatever. It has a 7" screen and cost about $70. I just wish it had batteries so there isn't an ugly power cord hanging down the wall or over the edge of the desk.

estarling

[grapeape]

Its a bit pricy but the eStarling frames have usb/media card and wifi support. You can upload pictures to a flickr, picasa, webshots, etc photosite and click to download them to the frame. They work pretty well, I picked up one for my grandmother and she seems to enjoy it.

Re:estarling

[mobby_6kl]

I just wanted to post the same suggestion. I don't have one, but I've seen it a while ago on ThinkGeek. Looks very nice and basically what the original poster asked for, although I'm not quite sure about the widescreen LCD. Most of my photos are 4:3, so they'd probably leave some screen space unused with black vertical bars unless it does some kind of ugly stretching or uses the space to show thumbnails or something.

Re:estarling

[Wabbit Wabbit]

Gizmodo had a recent review of the second rev eStarling, and had some pretty unkind things to say. FTFA:

The piss-poor image quality of this LCD panel made all that completely unimportant. The eStarling's screen is absolutely unacceptable. We tried displaying digital pictures of all different resolutions and aspect ratios on it, and all of them looked like we were viewing them on a cheap TV set. Yes, the images were in color, but that's about it. The display was just downright dim, blurry, and you could see scanlines and jaggies all through images that are normally tack-sharp. This display was so bad that it almost hurt our eyes to look at it.

I have found Gizmodo to be a reliable and unbiased source over the years, so I'd give this one a pass.

Re:estarling

[Phisbut]

I just wanted to post the same suggestion. I don't have one, but I've seen it a while ago on ThinkGeek. Looks very nice and basically what the original poster asked for

While it's pretty close, it's exactly what the original poster does not want. From the spec list :

Frame Setup requires you to run the included software on a Windows 2000/ME/XP compatible PC.

Just get prints

[KillerCow]

My mom, bless her soul, doesn't quite get the concept of digital photography. She always complains that we never print them out for her,

I know that this doesn't answer the question that you've asked, but why don't you just print them? There are kiosk machines in lots of places now that print at photo quality. Prints are on the order of 20 cents each for a 4x6. I use them. They're great.

Your mom is more comfortable with prints, don't try to force an unwanted solution on her.

Re:Just get prints

[heinousjay]

You'd think that would be the obvious answer. Technology for technology's sake doesn't really fly outside of geek circles.

Re:Just get prints

[acroyear]

warning on those kiosks: their card readers suck and may break your card. don't use your "originals" - take it home and burn a cdrom and take that to the shop to print.

one at the nearby kinkos totally destroyed my SD card of everything i shot from a particular vacation.

Re:Just get prints

[Anonymous Coward]

Or just use an on-line service. I upload the pictures to have the printed and have them delivered to my mother's house. Doesn't get easier than that

Re:Just get prints

[DerekLyons]

That's exactly what I was thinking - if the author's mom wants prints, why not give them to her? Why force a gadget on her (which can break, batteries can run down, etc... etc...) that she doesn't want? Not to mention that prints have not only have no lock-in, she can pick here own frames, mattes, etc... to match her decor and tastes.
 
My mom (who gets both digital photography and computers) owned, briefly, a digital frame - and then trashed it after about a year. She has photos, old and new, all around the house - there was no way a single digital frame could replace all those, and the cost of well over a hundred digital frames (not to mention the maintenance) was simply out of the question. Nor is a slide show always a viable option.
 
When we were visiting in March, Mom had just finished a wonderful 'diorama'. On an end table were pictures of her dad (who died in 1987), pictures of her and her siblings growing up that featured them and Grandpa, and pictures of us kids with Grandpa. It was lit with his reading lamp - and the centerpiece was his Bible, opened to his favorite passage and with his reading glasses laid on top. A slide show wouldn't have near the impact as that little grouping of carefully selected frames and photographs. While we were visiting them, she was happily redoing her 'family' wall - a careful grouping of photographs of us kids[1] and her grandkids. (She needs to make room for pictures of the new grandbaby due in June.) I spent a wonderful afternoon helping her and reminiscing about when and where some of the photographs were taken. She doesn't want a slide show there - that would leave an empty wall. She just wants to have her photographs arranged and sized as she wants them. (And if the size or cropping doesn't suit her, Dad has a Mac, a high end scanner, several graphics and photoediting programs, and a high end printer - and Mom knows how to use 'em all.)

There's a time and place for geek cool - and a time and place for more traditional methods. The choice should be left to [the author's] Mom, not forced on her.

[1] Including one picture she just loves, which is also then one picture of me worse than any driver's license photo ever taken - my boot camp portrait. (Taken in the second week of boot camp when I was still shell shocked and waaay short on sleep.) If I could wave a magic wand and make just one picture of me disappear from human memory - that would be the one.

Re:Just get prints

[Eideewt]

My thought as well. Digital photography is pretty cool, but sometimes nothing beats having the artifact. Instead of trying to convince your mom that she'd rather have a digital frame, just print her some photos.

You also might (in addition to printing) set up a slide show screen saver for her. My grandmother enjoyed that a lot (as would I, if I were a photo person).

Re:Just get prints

[Dachannien]

Actually, she prefers her photos chiseled into stone slabs. Do you know what it's like trying to find a prehistoric bird with a USB port?

Re:Just get prints

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I think that's the problem with Slashdot and other sites. Too often, I see suggestions that only make sense within the "bubble" of that site.

PanDigital + Single-board computer

[GiMP]

My pandigital not only accepts every media card out there, but it can act as a USB mass storage device with its own internal memory. If you really wanted to, you could take a PanDigital (or another frame that acts as Mass storage device), connect it to a single board computer, and.. voila!

Of course, a SBC with USB will easily cost over $50, maybe $100. Even if altogether it costs $200 for the frame and the SBC, thats still probably better than you would've paid for a basic frame even a year ago, let alone how much decent SBC's have dropped in price!

Re:PanDigital + Single-board computer

[jddj]

Well, calculate in the whole price.

With a Ceiva (lockin, updates via phone lines) You're dropping $100-$150 on the frame, and $100 a year for the service - for a very limited service, IMHO - the frame isn't that great and you only get 20 pictures on it (on my Dad's anyway).

So for 2 years of service, you're already into over 3 bills - that SBC with Wi-Fi is looking better and better - though that may also mean plumbing the parent's place with broadband, adding a router...

Yeah, printing out 4x6es is looking better and better. Maybe find an online service where you can print online and direct ship them.

Battery life

[dgatwood]

The biggest problem for these things---and particularly for digital picture frames with wireless networking---is battery life. Unless you're planning to hook up a power cord wherever you hang it, that's going to be a real pain; backlights take a lot of power. Also, it will never be like looking at a photo because it is a rear-lit display.

What you really want is electronic paper. The technology is in its infancy (despite being decades in the making), but it has real potential to be used for all sorts of things---digital music stands, digital picture frames, digital billboards on the highway without obnoxious lights, etc. Its biggest advantage is that it takes no power except when you are changing it, making it absolutely ideal for what you're doing. Combine that with power-over-ethernet (which would be plausible for such a low power device), and you have a really cool toy. :-)

Re:Battery life

[wall0159]

Apart from battery life (or power supply) problems, they
1. typically have crappy, small, low-resolution screens with a poor viewing angle, and
2. are expensive.

What's the attraction? Printing photos is cheap, repeatable, and they look a million times better (larger, crisper, 180 deg viewing abgle, etc). Plus you're not paying for electricity to run them. I just can't understand who'd want those photo frames - if you want a slideshow, put one on the TV.. or laptop.. (and turn it off when you don't want it).

Seems like an expensive "solution" in search of a problem.

Costco

[lorcha]

I usually just upload some pics to Costco and have them ship 'em to my parents. Free shipping, cheap prints. Very easy.

Mom seems to like them.

Is it you who doesn't get the 'concept', perhaps?

[caitsith01]

My mom, bless her soul, doesn't quite get the concept of digital photography. She always complains that we never print them out for her, and gets completely flustered at the idea of looking at them on a computer.

I must say, I take exception to this opening. The 'concept' of digital photography is hardly that one must no longer print pictures. In fact, digital prints are fantastic quality and a very satisfying (and, relatively speaking, permanent) way to keep your pictures.

I would say that digital photography's key feature is the replacement of film with a reusable medium, and the corresponding ability to easily transfer and manipulate the pictures stored on that medium. Nothing in that description means that those pictures should not be printed.

Am I alone in finding electronic storage and display of pictures spectacularly unsatisfying? Not only do pictures look worse on a screen to my eye, the non-physical nature of the pictures also diminishes their permanence and impact. Furthermore, storing images on a computer encourages the habit of retaining hundreds or thousands of poor photographs (as there is effectively no cost for doing so) and thereby reduces the amount of time spent considering each photograph in detail and deciding which ones are worth looking at and enjoying.

Re:Is it you who doesn't get the 'concept', perhap

[mshurpik]

Nothing in that description means that those pictures should not be printed.

TFA: "She always complains that we never print them out for her"

I guess you could say he answered his own question in the second line of the article.

Re:Is it you who doesn't get the 'concept', perhap

[MrNaz]

Vote 1 caitsith01 (606117) for President!

I have been trying to tell people that the medium of transfer is completely different to the medium of displak, and the "digital photography" does not imply that *both* need to change. This seems to be falling on deaf ears, unfortunately.

Don't buy the Kodak EX-1011

[davester666]

I foolishly purchased this for my mom because the Kodak sales rep said [before I purchased it] that yes, pictures could be sent directly from a Mac to the picture frame over a wireless network. When I actually get the device, it turns out that it only supports pulling pictures [so you have to use the crappy UI on the picture frame to find/select/copy pictures from a remote picture source] and the only remote picture sources it supports is Kodaks picture gallery web site and Windows Media Sharing protocol [which operates 100% independently of Kodak's picture software]. And their picture software, both under MacOSX and Windows, doesn't directly interact with the picture frame at all. You have to export the pictures from the software, manually selecting exactly the right spot to export the pictures to, as it shows up as a generic USB mass storage device. And they botched the USB implementation, because unlike the 20-odd other USB mass storage devices, when you eject the mounted volumes, after a second or two, they automatically remount, and if you don't unplug the device at just the right moment, you get a warning saying the device was unplugged while mounted. I swear, Apple should just make one of these devices and bitch-slap everyone else out of the market.