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Canadian Movie Camcording Addressed With Legislation
dottyslashdottydot writes "During Arnold Schwarzenegger's visit to Ottawa yesterday, it was confirmed that Prime Minister Stephen Harper will be introducing a bill to make camcording in movie theaters illegal in Canada. However, people are skeptical that this will make any difference in the amount of pirated movies available. Doug Frith, president of the Canadian Motion Picture Distributors Association was quoted as saying, 'is really the first step — not only for the movie industry — where the government has shown it will seriously address the whole area of intellectual-property theft.'"
Since the last major public study on movie piracy in 2003 [http://lorrie.cranor.org/pubs/drm03-tr.pdf], concluded that 77 percent of pirated movies actually come from industry insiders and movie reviewers, "camcording" is not something the Motion Picture Association of America should really be concerned with. I suspect we'll see an act making any copying of a DVD an indictable (criminal) offence rather than somthing one deals with in a lawsuit.
davecb@spamcop.net
I'd rather buy the movie than view it in camcorder quality (or not watch it at all).
How big of a deal is this, really?
I've always found captures of camcordered movies to be of crap quality. It has never stopped me from later buying the DVD, or from even going to the theater. From me, they've never lost a dime because of this.
Well, okay. Once when in high school, when living in Europe, the only way we got to see some movies was camcorder rips of U.S. screens. There may be one or two that I never actually paid theater tickets for. This was back in the days of VHS and 300 bps modems.
Still, considering the amount of money being made in theatrical releases, is this really a problem or just another smokescreen?
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I have too much respect for my time to watch a cam copy. A DVD rip maybe, but a cam copy? Just why???
Why not just search bags going into the show? It's private property, they have the right too. Personally I wouldn't mind (and yes, I carry a bag with me most places) provided they were respectful and didn't try to swipe anything.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Everybody knows that all the latest Hollywood releases are first released in Canadian Theaters, where they are cammed and put on torrent sites. I think this will help piracy greatly.
You have 5 Moderator Points! Use 'em or lose 'em! They will expire before any good stories are posted.
Yes... Excellent... Keep focusing on the cams. They are the problem...
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Camcorder piracy is for those who don't have the technical expertise to commit proper piracy. ^_^
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
move industry?
movies in general?
intellectual property? (serious)
Maybe I'm just of mixed opinion, but is a movie really an intellectual property? Should intellectual property be something that makes me smarter? And shouldn't intellectual property be something freely given away anyway as a way to foster increased intelligence to the masses as a whole?
If you can have intellectual property, (and obviously the use of these words is to deliberately conflate the concept of owning ideas with the law on physical property ownership).
Shouldn't you be held liable for any damage (whatever it is) which that property causes? After all, ideas can be dangerous and, until now, they have not been thought to be ownable...
Deleted
I would like to take this opportunuty to thank my American friends for allowing their corporate owned administration to spin so far out of control as to spill their misguided witch hunt into my country. Now not only will YOUR taxpayers money be wasted on chasing, prosecuting, and imprisoning IP "criminals", ours will too!
I would also like to thank my own government for being such slack-jawed pansies and allowing the Governator to actually influence Canadian policy.
I want to wretch.
This legislation will never work -- you have to nip the demand instead.
I support legislation to kill people who think watching a camcorded movie is a great experience.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
"This is even more hopeless than the War on Drugs."
The ineffectiveness of this stuff is so painfully obvious that I often wonder if even the dense skulls in the 'content industry' aren't fully aware of it. Maybe I'm paranoid, but it seems that all these "content industry" gripes result in one or another form of technology control measures. Does anyone wonder if controlling and restricting citizens' access to technology is the real purpose of all this parading?
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Interestingly enough, the movie theatres here in Canada are already claiming it is illegal.
When I went to Spiderman 3 the other week, they had a sign up in the lobby that said something like "for everyone's safety end enjoyment, we remind you that recoding devices are illegal".
I was quite surprised by that, as I knew it wasn't yet in law.
That, and I have no idea how my safety is affected by such things. Once again, the fear card gets played -- "OMG, we could all die if someone has a recording device".
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
This Youtube video - titled the Power of Lobbying: How Hollywood Got a Canadian Movie Piracy Bill in Under Six Months - pretty much says it all.
well, you can be prosecuted if you're caught filming a movie in the cinema.
What I've always wanted to do though is very obviously erect a camera with tripod in one of the aisles and then continuously tell people off for eating too loud / whispering / getting in the way of the shot.
"Guys, will you keep it down! I'm trying to film this!"
Summation 2
I refuse to go to a movie theatre that searches people. I used to go 30-40 movies a year, I don't go at all anymore since they started this practice, and I've made sure they know exactly why I'm not attending.
I applaud consumers who let producers know their product/service sucks. Movie piracy exists by the hand of the movie industry itself! If they didn't make so many crappy movies maybe the public would not feel ripped everytime they walk out of a theater.
I can't fault anyone for pirating a movie... I'd lean more twords encouraging it, as I am personlly sick of feeling like I have had my intellectual property, my brain and an average of 2 hours of my life, stolen everytime I see a bad movie.
Piracy minimaly affects the sales of good movies. Look at LOTR, The Matrix, and Star Wars... All were released far before their theatrical debut and all did extremely well!
"If God can do it for 10% why can't the US Government?"
The movie industry doesn't have a "Piracy" problem.
They have a "Security" problem.
How else can you explain "DVD rips" of a movie WEEKS before it comes out?
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
For, say, 1990. Seriously, what decade are these people living in?
Pirated copies don't come from some idiot wielding a camcorder, they come digital copies usually leaked from within the industry itself. "Review copy" only means "my kid will be torrenting this in three hours, here it comes."
And the minimum wage salary surf shining a flashlight on people fondling each other is now a also a policeman? If a guy holding an illegal recording device looks able enough to abuse a baby seal and isn't bothering anyone, what possible incentive does a theater have to confront them?
This type of legislation is a cry for help on the part of the legislator. It's a sign they're so out of touch it's not even funny.
A foreign cartel forcing a supposedly sovereign nation to change their law according to their whims, THAT is a big deal.
You can't take the sky from me...
We were already subjected to random search at every movie these days. Check out this flyer that now hangs ever 2 feet and above every ticket counter at every theater I've been to lately:
s earchconsentwr9.jpg
http://img161.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cineplex
This will do nothing more then make the big theater chains more afraid and implement more ridiculous policies that in the end only make non-pirates stop going !
"Once when in high school, when living in Europe, the only way we got to see some movies was camcorder rips of U.S. screens"
;-)
:-)
Ah yes, Europe, that mystic medieval land in the East, where people gather together to watch glove puppet shows of an evening in the public squares by the castles...
So what were these movies you couldn't see when you were here? you mean you have secret US only releases of the good movies and you just ship the crap over to us? Damn I knew there was a yankee conspiracy going on but I just couldn't place it...
Sorry, Friday afternoon. I am sure you meant something different but the phrasing was nice and funny...
Funny how the music and movie industries want all the protection and laws they can get, yet we as customers don't get squat.
Don't like that music CD? Sorry, most stores don't offer refunds, only a replacement for defective discs (let's not talk about copy-protected discs here, it's not the issue).
Didn't like that movie? Sorry, you can't get a refund for that $10 movie ticket.
Everything else in the world comes with a warranty. You can return products within a reasonable amount of time and get a refund.
But not with the RIAA and MPAA. No sir. They are the law, you owe them money even if their products suck so bad that you think you wasted both money and time.
Anything to help keep cam quality vids off Torrent sites.
However, people are skeptical that this will make little difference in the amount of pirated movies available.
So they believe that it will make a large difference? Or did you mean to say, "...people are skeptical, and believe that this will make little difference..." I know I'll get flamed for this, but I'm really just trying to help people communicate better. No insult intended.
http://xkcd.com/386/
This should already have been illegal: it's copyright violation, right? Is this one of those redundant laws like it is illegal to sell illegal drugs to a minor, when selling illegal drugs is already illegal? Or it is illegal to commit a "hate" crime against someone of another race or ethnicity, but it is already illegal to commit a crime against anyone at all? More charges don't solve the problem.
Minority government.
Election coming sooner rather than later.
It will die on the order paper if it ever gets there.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
And suddenly thousands of Starwars fans dressed as Darh Maul, or LoTR fans dressed as elfs, or Harry Potter fans cosplaying... all cried and then suddenly shut up.
Making camcorders forbidden will not only have no effect at all on proper piracy, but will piss off all users who have brought one for perfectly legal reasons. Like wanting to film all the dressed up fans queuing up on a world-wide première.
I WANT to be able to make movie and/or pictures of friends cosplaying, even if it is only for the ridicule they'll get later once I show those pictures (...at their wedding or something).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Stop calling it "intellectual property theft"? It's copyright violation. "Property theft" implies stealing someone's tangible goods (or ideas) and passing it off as your own, which is clearly not what's going on here. It's an unauthorized reproduction (and possibly public display or sale) of an artistic work.
This reminds me of a Seinfeld episode: "Jerry and Kramer attend the film with Brody, who makes a bootleg tape. Brody gets sick and has Kramer take him home, leaving Jerry to finish making the tape. Brody likes Jerry's camera work and asks him to do more films.... After Jerry refuses to tape anymore movies for Brody, George takes on the challenge, but gets arrested."
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
The MPA says that in 2005, piracy cost U.S. studios $6.1-billion (U.S.). In Canada, the CMPDA estimates its members lost $118-million the same year.
I feel your pain. I believe the only thing left to tell these people is "Piss off!"
What?
...are Death Blow and Cry, Cry Again. Although the ending sort of falls apart at the end of Cry, Cry Again... there is this lone dancer who appears to be injured.
I Heart Sorting Networks
On another note, I carry a camera with me where ever I go. It's a still camera, but I can see movie theatre people making a stink about it. Do you think that, when I get dressed in the morning, I'm going to say to myself, "Oh! I might go to a movie tonight! I'm going to leave the camera at home." Do you think I'm going to let a pimply faced teenager confiscate a several-hundred dollar piece of personal electronics just so I can watch a damn movie? They have the right to try it, but they are not entitled to my patronage.
(I also usually have a bag with me. If happen to go to the movies, should I just leave it outside? You yourself said you usually have a bag, yet you're telling others they could just "not" bring a bag with them. Isn't that a tad hypocritical?)
Would you still go to a movie theatre that searched your bags, and confiscated your snack food? It's private property, they have the right to take away your bottle of coke, offering only to sell you the exact same beverage for three times what you paid for the original.
They could be assholes, but they shouldn't be assholes. Being an asshole is terrible for business.
"Live as if you'll die tomorrow." Ridiculous. You could die later today.
I love minority governments. Nothing gets done, and thus nothing gets fucked up!
All praise Canada's multi-party system!
"Live as if you'll die tomorrow." Ridiculous. You could die later today.
It's about time. I mean seriously, who wants to download a movie only to find out it's a cam that some jerk posted?!?
I say jail 'em all!
That way we can be sure the movies we download are genuine DVD rips and not have to worry...
In Ohio (one of the United States, for those unfamiliar with the term), it's illegal to turn on a camcorder anywhere in a commercial building where movies are being shown. That includes movie theaters - even out in the lobby - and presumably retail stores where camcorders are sold alongside movies. Moreover, the store/theater/whatever workers have the right to detain you until the cops show up to arrest you.
Local TV news crew doing an expose on the poor health code compliance of a theater's concession stand? Busted.
Family testing out a camcorder at the local big-box electronics store where a movie is coincidentally being demo'd nearby? Busted.
And what makes matters worse is that we already had laws to cover copyright infringement, but the content cabal decided that somehow that just wasn't enough.
Do you people all just go to one place a day or something? "Don't bring that, you don't need it" cause you know, he wasn't at work 15 minutes before the movie started, or downtown price comparison shopping, or whatever. Some of us carry stuff with us cause we're more busy than that.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
I've had cases where I'll be in a particular area (sometimes not in town) and decide to see a show. As I'm a hobbyist photographer, in many cases I tend to have a camera with me, which I suppose would have the capabilities of recording (crappy) video if I had a really big card in it. Now I *could* choose to leave my camera in the car and worry about having it stolen, or I could bring it with me, and leave it in the case rather than being a dork trying to make a crappy cam of a movie.
So far I've had little problems with the latter, but if the theatres start giving me grief that will change rather quickly.
That's one way to solve the overpopulation problem in China and other parts of SE Asia, Russia, and Eastern Europe...
So that's why there were so many goddamned red-plated Volvos in my neighborhood...
Seriously though, am I the only guy who's sick of Stephen "American Wannabe" Harper ? Last time I checked, the US economy was in steady decline thanks to Dubya's persistent efforts to vilify the country he's supposed to be leading. So then why the hell is the Canadian premier kissing American ass ?
Canada already has laws that already outlaw camcording in theatres, it's all part of a big concept we call Copyright. We don't need to specifically target camcording, we just need to enforce the laws that are already there. That starts with the imbeciles that man today's mega-movie-plex-odeon-eramas, as they're the first line of defense to stop clandestine taping. The problem is these kids earn minimum wage, and have little incentive to do the right thing. Blame it all on the bloated film industry, whose ridiculous budgets and ticket prices have squeezed every last bit of life out of the market. By alienating its customers and even its business partners, the film industry has created a huge gap in the market, one that modern technology can easily fill. Don't feel like paying $12 per ticket for the film, and $20 for popcorn and soda ? Then stay at home and download it for free, drink your $0.20 can of soda and your $0.50 bag of popcorn.
Where there is such great demand, inevitably someone springs up to fill the void.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
If the movie gets dull, you can watch some pr0n?
Between the falling angel and the rising ape
After the law is in effect, find somehwere that 100+ people that care can meet.
Choose an obscure film, preferably from some indie project that will be happier for the press coverage than for this horrible 'piracy'.
Then have the 100-strong group go see the movie, bringing videocameras. 100 cameras rolling, while they watch. Preferably, call the police yourself and tell them that you're going to break the law. Be open about it.
I lost my sig.
The thing that I find ironic and sad is that the same people here that constantly talk about "free enterprise" and "competition" are constantly bowing to lobbyists who are pushing pro corporate laws in our country and beyond our borders. If these people really did support an open marketplace then things like DMCA wouldn't happen because corporations and conglomerates like the **AA should be using competition with P2P and youtube and other sources to generate a more enviable product or a reason to purchase the product rather than changing the criminal code to force consumers to use content as they see fit. Open source applications haven't shut down the software market and linux hasn't crushed microsoft they are still thriving because their business model takes into account that there will be a certain amount of loss and they instead make logical b2b supported deals and try to make a more appealing product to consumers if they are using legit products (even though vista right now is a piece of crap). I am a musician and last night I was going over this with a couple of other independent musicians over dinner- the possibility of creating a not for profit centralized online distribution service that you could purchase or DL music for free as well as selling related merchandise with the focus being that if you don't want to purchase a CD- go ahead and download the tracks but if you can afford to spend something you can pretty much put more $ in our pocket by buying a shirt or some other item and get more out of it- hoping to build consumer support by expanding what we deliver at no real cost to us since in the long run we know that it will end up on p2p anyways and by not exploiting the fact that will be, we close off potential customer base for expanded products.