Economic Analysis of Toilet Seat Position

Ant writes "The Science Creative Quarterly has published an economic analysis of The Social Norm of Leaving the Toilet Down, employing game theory. This analysis is more thorough than preceding ones cited (from 2002 and 2005), as it factors in the cost of yelling. Both men and women can take some comfort in the conclusion though neither may in the end be satisfied.

Comments

What about the lid?

[nurb432]

Where does closing the lid come in to play here?

Re:What about the lid?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah no shit, the seat isn't tthe reason that I put the toilet seat down, but I close it because of all of the things that I have accidently dropped in the toilet because I left it up. I think that is more important than if it is up or down when you get to it.

Re:What about the lid?

[bl8n8r]

> Where does closing the lid come in to play here?

There is an innate need within women to group a collection of shortcomings for later use. It's similar to stacking cannonballs in a nice neet pile for use should a skirmish arise. The toilet seat issue (as well as the toilet paper over/under issue) is simply an assured way of having enough cannon balls for the pile. Ergo:

- If the seat is up when you piss, you must remember to put it down.
- If the seat is down when you piss, you must remember to put it up.

Furthermore, if toilet paper is to be replaced on the roll holder, you must examine the toilet paper to see which way the pretty design is printed. This design must be visible and dictates which way the roll should hang. (Note: the same rule is applied to paper towel). I do not understand the reason for artwork on something I wipe my ass with, but surmise it is solely there for the reason of stockpiling cannonballs.

I find it less trouble to simply piss in the sink.

Re:What about the lid?

[_vSyncBomb]

This is a moot point in my household; both the seat and lid stay closed. Even when my girlfriend is out of town. That's because if you don't shut the toilet before you flush, a massive cloud of tiny invisible particles of fecal matter and other nastoids comes shooting out of the toilet in all directions, coating you, the bathroom, and anything else in its path (like say, your toothbrush, if you don't leave it in the medicine cabinet or somewhere sheltered).

This was documented in a mildly famous study by Charles Gerba. It has been amusingly dubbed the F3: the Fecal Fountain Factor.

Now, tiny droplets of shit and piss water won't kill you--if you are healthy, you could likely french kiss your toilet seat and not get sick, but that doesn't mean you wanna. I find the mere knowlege that, if I don't shut the toilet first, I will be bathed an a microscopic shit shower to be sufficiently unappealing that I always do so. And, this way is equitable to all parties involved--no matter if you are a stander, or a sitter, you still have to lift the lid to use the toilet.

Luckily, the ages-old controversy is being brought back by the Japanese. New toilets there have infrared sensors that detect your approach and lift the lid and/or seat for you. Sounds ridiculous, but once you get used to it (that is, use it once), you come around to liking it. And happily, this technology reignites the debate with your female counterpart: you can argue about whether Mr. Smarty Toilet should be programmed to lift the lid, or both lid and seat. That is, until they come up with the next generation of toilets than can differentiate between individual people...

Re:What about the lid?

[Timesprout]

I think you need to talk to your boss about getting a cubicle in a better location.

Re:What about the lid?

[travdaddy]

The reason I do the same thing (close both the seat and lid) is so the cat won't drink out of the toilet. She has bad enough breath as it is!

Re:What about the lid?

[jc42]

I close it because of all of the things that I have accidentally dropped in the toilet because I left it up.

Around our house, we have a good reason to keep toilet lids closed. Due to my wife's allergies to nearly everything furry (except me ;-), we have four small parrots, who sometimes fly around the house looking for things to get into. I've been thinking of putting up signs in the bathrooms for visitors quoting the advice in many "How to care for your pet parrot" books:

The most common cause of accidental death of pet birds is drowning in toilets. Please close the lid when you're done.

This pretty much decides the issue here.

Re:What about the lid?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're really that sensitive, consider that whenever someone near you farts, you're inhaling gas that was given off by decomposing excrement, from up their back passage. Nice, I don't think. :-6

Re:What about the lid?

[Purity Of Essence]

I always close the lid simply because everyone suffers that way. It's the only fair option.

Re:What about the lid?

[CheeseTroll]

Definitely, especially if you have a fairly small bathroom, where the sink is right next to the toilet.

Closing the lid also does a good job of muffling the flush noise.

Re:What about the lid?

[DeadChobi]

I, too, share your pain of having a fucking tiny bathroom. And the reason you close the shower curtain after every shower is that it mildews if you don't. I've seen it happen quite a few times. When you're poor enough, everything beyond food and bills becomes a major expense, so you either buy a new curtain every 6 months or you close it after you're done.

Re:What about the lid?

[Anonymous Coward]

I always close the lid because -- well -- isn't that its entire reason for being there? It's not much of a back-rest.

Re:What about the lid?

[noidentity]

Yes, precisely, I want the lid down at all times possible because I don't want anything falling in there. It nicely solves the "problem" of the seat position when one is done: it's always down (under the lid), and when anyone needs to use it, they either lift just the lid or the lid and the seat at the same time. If your partner has a problem with this, congratulations, you've been given an early notification that you should dump him/her right now.

You insensitive clod...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't use the toilet. God made bushes and trees for a reason, you know.
(I'm lots of fun at the office, too... those silk plants sure look real)

Re:What's the big deal..

[WilliamSChips]

I don't know about you but when I have to crap I have to sit down. And that's why there's no "leave the toilet seat up!" battle raging, because guys can just go to the fucking bathroom sitting down(which I usually do when I'm not in a public bathroom)! What annoys me more though is when other men pee standing up and get urine all over the toilet seat. In public bathrooms, there are usually these special toilets that can only be used standing up. If your masculinity is challenged by not standing up in the bathroom, use those!

Solve your problem

[WormholeFiend]

by installing an asian-style toilet, the type you have to squat down on top of. No lid needed!

Among its various additional benefits, squatting really helps pushing out number-two's.

Academic detachment

[antifoidulus]

If you constantly have fights over the position of the seat, just get a traditional asian toilet, ie a hole in the ground you have to squat over.

Re:Academic detachment

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

just get a traditional asian toilet, ie a hole in the ground you have to squat over.

I fear that I have to point out that a hole in the ground is the traditional toilet for all cultures.

Re:What's the big deal..

[Wayne247]

This is becoming such a problem at my workspace that I now go use the toilet where mostly women use it, instead of the one close to me where mostly men use it.

I can't beleive that guys will purposefully pee standing up, spray the bowl, the seat, the floor, the walls, there might even be some on the ceiling, and then just walk away as it it was perfectly normal. WHAT THE FUCK? That's piss you got there on your shoes, not stream water!

I'm ashamed of being a man when I see the state guys leave toilets. Once I was in a public toilet at a theater and the only explanation I could come up with to explain the level of piss spray everywhere was that there must be a war waging inside the bowl between two countries, and one of them just discovered the atomic bomb.

Re:What's the big deal..

[DuncanE]

Amen to that...

WE took the time to lift it UP. THEY can take the time to put it DOWN.

(Yes Im married and whipped so this will only ever be posted on slashdot. Im never actually going to say it out loud.)

The Unconsidered Factor

[Enonu]

To all women out there,

Men are lazy, and when they need to take a leak, they might decide to try out their aim with the seat down rather than take the effort to raise it. Sometimes they miss, leaving urine for you to sit on. Leave the toilet seat up. It's in your best hygienic interest to do so.

Re:The Unconsidered Factor

[Cosmic AC]

That's much easier said than done.

Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's how you solve the toilet seat dilemma:

Remove the toilet seat.

No toilet seat, no arguments, no problem.

Re:Easy solution

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be a GNOME developer.

This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine...

[808140]

I don't mean whether you leave it up or down, I mean the argument. I've run into women who are adamant about having the toilet seat down, and I just can't wrap my head around it. Obviously, if it's her apartment or otherwise constitutes her space (as opposed to a shared space between the two of you) then she gets to make policy on all things, no matter how inane -- when you're in someone else's home, regardless of how intimately connected to them you may be, it's just rude to do things in contravention of their preferences.

However, if you are living together and sharing a space, then insisting that the toilet seat be down (or up, for that matter, although I've never encountered that) is simply a selfish insistence that your needs are more important than your partner's. Consider: when a man wants to pee, if the toilet seat is down, he must first put it up, or the seat will end up with drops of urine on it, which no one (including the man) wants. When a woman wants to pee, if the toilet seat is up, she must put it down, because she cannot sit on the rim.

Because each wants something different, the fair way to handle it is to simply put it down (or up) as required. Men put it down, women put it up. The distribution of labor is fair, everyone has to put it up or down sometimes and not at other times.

The insistence that it always be down, however, essentially amounts to the woman shirking her share of the toilet-seat-state-changing responsibility. She is saying that she doesn't feel that she should ever need to put the toilet seat down or up, and that you, the man, are responsible for putting it both up and down.

Men are frequently inconvenienced by a woman leaving the toilet seat down -- if you show up in the middle of the night, and it's dark, and you really have to go, it's a bit of a pain to always have to feel to see if the seat is up or down before you let it all out. Isn't this exactly the argument most often used by women? Why is it a valid argument coming from them, and not from us? The simple answer is that she wants it her way, and is unable to compromise, and for some reason feels as though society has vindicated her opinion on the matter.

To me, a woman who insists on having the toilet seat down, who cannot take the trouble to put it down if it is up, exactly as I must take the trouble to put it up if it is down, is clearly an example of a selfish, controlling personality who will cause you problems in the long run. And actually, there's a broader theme here: if you're the sort of person, regardless of your gender, who expects other people to conform completely to your habits and norms without considering that in a relationship, everyone needs to change their habits somewhat in order to make things work, then you're probably a shitty significant other. The kind I tend to dump after three weeks, if even.

The fact that some women are even under the impression that insisting that the toilet seat always be down to convenience them is in any way right-thinking at all completely boggles my mind. I don't watch football, but to leverage another cliché as an analogy: it would be like insisting that any time she watches TV that she put it back on ESPN when she's done.

This has turned into a rant, but here's a piece of advice for men who respect themselves: if she starts throwing a shit fit about the toilet seat, dump her. I'm serious. It's the tip of the iceberg, and you'll end up unhappy in the long run.

Depends entirely on the artwork

[Opportunist]

I could see a few company logos that would certainly endear toilet paper makers to certain groups. I could well see SCO logos on TP used at Novell...

Re:Depends entirely on the artwork

[DJ Rubbie]

Nah, we need a more common enemy of the public than that. Try this:

http://www.jinx.com/other_swag/other/geek/riaa_toi let_paper_1_roll.html

Re:What's the big deal..

[markdavis]

I am a man- I sit down ALL THE TIME with private toilets- you have to more than 50% of the time, ANYWAY. Much less messy, much less noise, slightly faster, no conflicts. I don't give a rat's a** what anyone thinks (not like anyone would know, anyway, unless I post it in a stupid message on Slashdot for a million people to read).

Now, public restrooms? I will use the urinal when possible, which is what it is there for. My conclusion? Unless the private bathroom also has a urnal, just sit, for crying out loud!

If you want another interesting thing to statistically fight over: Do you leave the LID closed or open? At my house, it is always to be closed. Why? Because it grosses me out when the cats drink out of the toilets!!!

(This has got to be the silliest thread I have ever seen on Slashdot!)

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine..

[wonkavader]

When we're just starting a relationship, we're usually looking for validation of our decision. We see reasons why this is a good thing and that this will work -- we don't see what others sometimes do, that this is a crazy, self-destructive decision which will alienate our friends, and cost us a year of happiness as we extricate ourselves. To have a rule of thumb is a VERY GOOD THING. To adhere to it -- trust it -- and let it force us to make the right decision is a VERY GOOD THING.

When we look for a job, many of us us the Dilbert principle. If there are a few Dilbert cartoons on the cubes, work there. If there are a lot or none, don't. (None means that management won't allow them, and people are scared, too many means the company is seriously pooched.) This is a rule. No matter how nice things look, if it doesn't pass the Dilbert test, we don't take it.

The toilet seat thing seems just as useful and important or more so. If she doesn't immediately see that there shouldn't be an issue there, run.

Re:What's the big deal..

[complete loony]

(This has got to be the silliest thread I have ever seen on Slashdot!) You must be new here.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine..

[Lumpy]

I've run into women who are adamant about having the toilet seat down, and I just can't wrap my head around it.
It's simple. those women tend to be control freaks of some type. Best solution is to run away. A more fun solution is to put the seat down AND the lid every single time.

It screws with their head hard, as they are pleased you obeyed and put the seat down, but it pisses them off that you put down the lid.

If you get confronted about it simply say, "you like the lid up? how disgusting."

Re:I demand new and interesting ways to have a shi

[grahamlee]

Thomas Crapper neither invented the flushing toilet, nor was the noun 'crap' created after his name.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine..

[Charcharodon]

Amen bother.

Of course after getting out of a shitty relationship and back into my own place I thought I was free to leave the toilet seat in any old position I like. It was pure joy while it lasted. Then a month later I was back to leaving it down.

I work in aircraft maintenance and it turns out we fall under a peculiar law of physics.

Any object dropped can and will fall into the most unlikely and most inconvenient place.

So in other words practically anything I dropped regardless of how many bizarre bounces or ricochets it would take, would land in the toilet from anywhere in the bathroom. Once exposed to this, it takes a long time for it to get it out of your life, much like a neurotic woman. I had never noticed it before because of the much stronger force, known as female OCD, altered the natural laws of space and time in my household. Once I resigned myself to leaving the toilet set back down, things stopped landing in the toilet, though they tried their damndest to do, and instead started landing in the trash can. Now I have to get into the habit of taking out the trash and putting a bag in the can.

A guy can't fucking win.

Re:What's the big deal..

[jcorno]

This is becoming such a problem at my workspace that I now go use the toilet where mostly women use it, instead of the one close to me where mostly men use it.

That may work in a bathroom that isn't used by strangers. Not in a public restroom, though. Have you ever been in a public women's toilet stall? They're worse than men. Ask a woman about it, and she'll explain that some women "hover" over the seat. They have basically no directional control, which means the seat gets soaked. Nobody's gonna sit on a wet seat, so the next woman has to hover, too. Don't ask me why they can't put the seat up. I'm guessing it's a matter of principle.

Solution

[ChameleonDave]

The problem with the whole toilet thing is that sit-down toilets are not designed for men at all.

They are far too low for the height of an average man, which means we are pissing really far, and spray is almost inevitable now and again. Toilets are designed for the lowest common denominator: women and children. Both are shorter than men, and tend to sit.

The solution is simple: urinals should be installed as standard in homes. That way, men can piss in an appropriately masculine way without getting it everywhere, and only sit on the toilet to defecate. Women and children are welcome to keep sitting. The man of the house can keep his own urinal clean (much easier than cleaning a sit-down toilet), the toilet seat can be permanently down, and the bitch can shut up and stop her whining!

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine..

[billcopc]

Consider this: if either mate pulls a hissy fit over the orientation of a hinged piece of plastic, I say shoot them both! One for being a petty jerk/bitch, the other for having such poor taste as to risk spreading weak genes through reproduction.

Eugenics starts in the bathroom!

Or...

[msauve]

both a toilet and a urinal. Then there is no need to move the seat, ever. 100% efficient.

Re:Or...

[Elad Alon]

Women can crap in wall mounted urinals, but not piss in them, if I understand their mechanics correctly.

Leave the toilet cover down. problem solved

[Lt.Hawkins]

Both men and women will have to lift *something* to do anything. Men will lift the cover and seat for #1, and women will just lift the cover for both.

Problem solved. Also keeps pets out of the toilet.

Re:Leave the toilet cover down. problem solved

[chudnall]

Yes. and if you're a man who finds himself being nagged about the seat position, this creates the perfect defense. The same women who go ballistic about an occasional toilet seat slip-up will *never* actually change their own habits. The conversation with my wife went something like this:

she: You left the seat up last night, you insensitive clod! I almost fell in the toilet!
me: I'm sorry, I usually lower both the seat and the lid, but I must have forgotten last night.
she: Well, you should be more attentive!
me: Yes, I should, but if you were to make a habit of lowering the lid each time, as I've asked you to on
        numerous occasions, then you would always automatically check it, and never suffer such a mishap.
        Have you *ever* lowered the lid after using the toilet?
she: I don't see what that has to do with anything!
me: It is very relevant because if you cannot be bothered to ever do such a simple thing as lowering the
        lid, how can you expect something close to perfection from me in lowering the seat?
she: er, uh...

She never brought up the issue again, even though I probably still do forget every once in a while. Guys, this is your one chance to outright, slam-dunk, win an argument with the missus, and take an issue she has hanging over your head, and turn it around straight back at her. Just start putting the lid down.

Re:What's the big deal..

[LiquidCoooled]

The one and only time when standing up to pee is 100% effective is in the shower.
You pee and don't have pressure to aim correctly or have to faff holding clothing out of the way or anything.

A shower pee is similar to the outdoor pee - just make sure you don't piss into the wind.

Re:What's the big deal..

[Jane_Dozey]

I'm a woman and I don't find this. Yes, on occasion some inconsiderate cretin makes a mess and neglects to clean it up but 99% of the time it's a little dribble which I can quite happily wipe up and get on with my own business. I've been into both mens and womens toilet stalls (I used to clean them) and I find mens to be by far the nastiest.

Re:What about people who have dogs?

[Bigbutt]

So, the dog licking his ass and balls and then giving you a sloppy kiss isn't a bit gross?

Dude!

[John]

Re:What's the big deal..

[Anonymous Coward]

Generally speaking if you talk to people who clean public toilets they always say the women's room is worse.

Maybe it's different in an office bathroom, I don't know.

Never got the lifting the seat part...

[foniksonik]

So if you are a man and you piss standing up, you automatically must aim poorly and hit the seat with a stream of urine? Or does it splatter from the bowl up on to the seat?

Personally I aim for the back of the bowl, just above the waterline.... this is where the angle of deflection will disperse the urine stream effectively in a way similar to a urinal... which is also designed to not spray urine back on to the urinator... which of course is where the concept comes from.

Now if for some reason I do get a couple drops of pee on the seat... I grab some toilet paper and wipe it off. Urine is a combination of uric acid and ammonia mixed with whatever waste chemicals your body decided it didn't need and could expel via your bladder. These chemicals could probably be put into a gel capsule and sold as vitamins if you separated them from the uric acid and ammonia. What I'm saying is that urine is pretty damn safe and really doesn't do anything bad to you at all (unlike fecal matter which can contain Hepatitus, Flu and lot of other nasties).

So here's my questions... if you always get urine on the seat, do you also always get urine on the rim? Who cleans that once a month? Wouldn't it be easier to just clean up after yourself when you make the mess, rather than letting it sit for weeks?

Re:Simple Solution - Have Separate Bathrooms

[ceoyoyo]

Because there's no way she'll clean both? :)

Re:What's the big deal..

[eMbry00s]

(This has got to be the silliest thread I have ever seen on Slashdot!)

I agree completely. Why the fuck is this topic such a common argument in the US? Are people so petty over there? Now I don't know about other european nations, but I live in Sweden and I have never ever heard (or heard about) anybody have this arguent in real life.

I hope it's the typical thing of the nasty minority (like fundies in religions) making a huge ruckus, because it boggles my mind that an entire nation of people would have this argument.

Re:What's the big deal..

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in the US, and I've never actually encountered this argument in real life either. It is, however, in the movies and sitcoms all the time, which probably makes it seem more prevalent than it is.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine..

[jimicus]

Why the hell has it been decreed that because men CAN pee standing up, they must?

Let me explain to you why it is men can pee standing up.

On the Eighth Day, God came to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and said "I've finished creating the world, and I've got a couple of things left over which I want you to have between you. Let's see... first thing I can offer you is the ability to pee standing up".

"Oh, yes, can I have that please, God?" said Adam, "That would be so cool - I could be out hunting, fishing or whatever and just pee wherever I am."

Eve smiled sweetly and said if peeing standing up is so important to Adam, let him have it.

God said "Okay. Adam, you shall be able to pee standing up. Now, what else was it I had in the bag.... oh yes. Multiple orgasms".

Re:What's the big deal..

[datapharmer]

Wait... it's faster? What kind of pants do you wear?

fun topic

[v1]

Somewhere here I have a good article of "men issues", and this is near the top.

toilet seat. we need it up, you need it down. You're a big girl now, learn to work the seat.

The common man's argument is that we sometimes need it up and sometimes need it down, so we have learned how to use the seat. (you rarely hear of a guy "falling in", and if he did, he certainly wouldn't try to find someone to blame for it, let alone even admit to having fallen in in the first place) Women OTOH who have lived in families or with roommates in an exclusively women household have lost this important life skill of operating the seat, since it is always down. (when visiting friends houses with exclusively women, it's a fun social experiment to slip into the bathroom and lift the lid and run out, and wait for someone to fall in, the screams and resulting argument are always fun to watch!)

A good example to draw is drive to a small town and park your car out front of your friend's house (in a spot where parking is permitted) and go in for a chat. BOOM someone just ran into your car. You run out to find someone rear-ended your parked car, and is upset at you for having left your car there, there isn't usually a car parked there and therefore it's all your fault. Same thing.

Just because you are not acustomed to something being different than you expect, does not negate your responsibility to identify reasonable (and sometimes even frequently occurring) change and adjust your behavior accordingly. Take responsibility for your actions, don't blame me.

Re:What's the big deal..

[MorePower]

I've never understood how the hell the "fly" on underwear is supposed to work anyway. Looking at how it's contructed, I would first have to shift my penis way over to the left to go in the inside hole. Then I need to make a 90 degree turn (ouch!) to the right. Then snake my, er, snake through the tunnel between the two flaps. Depending on how cold it is, I'm not sure I'd always have enough length to make it to the end of this tunnel. Then I'd have to make another 90 degree turn (!) to the left to exit out the outer hole. And then try to pee through a penis that has two 90 degree bends in it.

Yeah, that's way easier than pulling down the elastic band a bit.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine..

[billcopc]

To whoever was cynical enough to mod me "Insightful": I LOVE YOU!

It's the first time i hear this ...!

[GNUALMAFUERTE]

Let me get this correctly:

You sit to piss?

There is something very weird about the USA. You are a completely ANAL society. You like asses, admit it. A little bit too much. No, not true for the rest of the world. Maybe in the last couple of years this is starting to get more widespread. But usually, TITS were what man looked for first in women (which is logical, since we all have an ass). In the USA, ASS, ASS, ASS. Look at the way you talk:

Your more usual words are "Shit" and "Fuck you". All your insults are ass-related, while it's usually not so in the rest of the world. In Spanish, for example: "Carajo" (Dick), "Coño" (Vagina), are far more common.

But even when you seem to insult ass-related all the time, you censor anything relating to body functions. For example: Number 1 or Number 2 ... What is that shit???. And the parent post also bring plenty of examples: "Much less messy, much less noise, slightly faster" He is worried about the noise?, What mess is he talking about?. It's just PISS!.

It's common for the human being to try to separate itself from certain things that remember him that once he was an animal, and then, at the same time, find pleasure in certain primitive sensations. But in the USA you seem to be doing this in a pretty twisted way.

Re:It's the first time i hear this ...!

[Wayne247]

I have a hard time figuring out what exactly you're trying to say in your post. You're against pissing, is that it?

Or you're against asses? Or you're for asses? Or you want to trade your toilet for an ass? I'm confused! Maybe you're just against people who try to keep their fucking asses clean! That must be it. I don't like sitting in piss, regardless of how far from an animal I see myself as.

In any case, you assume several times in your post that i'm an american, which i'm not, so I will directly forward your flaming text to the trash (or recycle bin, if your text is recyclable.)

And by the way, the noise is a perfectly good issue. My office is close to a toilet. Hearing your splinkler while i'm on the phone with a client is mostly unwelcomed, but maybe in whatever country you're from (since you bash USA, you're probably not from there) maybe that sound is joyful and a great conversation piece.

Re:It's the first time i hear this ...!

[hackstraw]

There is something very weird about the USA. You are a completely ANAL society.

I'll agree and disagree. I think Japan has us beat for being ANAL by a long shot. I mean, take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan for example.

I will say that I think that Americans are a little fussy on the clean side.

Re:It's the first time i hear this ...!

[RealGrouchy]

I have a hard time figuring out what exactly you're trying to say in your post. You're against pissing, is that it?

No, he's just being an asshole.

- RG>

Re:It's the first time i hear this ...!

[HobophobE]

Here is a 2004 article detailing a German invention designed to reprimand men for lifting the toilet seat.

According to this list of prostate health suggestions sitting to piss helps to completely empty the bladder.

And here is an example of a 'no pissing while standing' sign.

Of course the issue cuts both ways with the P-Mate, and other techniques to enable women to evacuate while standing.

While I'll agree that society (including US) has tendencies to over-obsessing about bodily functions I don't think they are any worse than suggesting that it's wrong for a man to piss whilst seated. Next thing you'll tell me is that I'm wrong to be disgusted when I see other guys leave a restroom without washing their hands (or just doing the quick, no-soap rinse).

I'm not some fanatic about germs, but personal hygiene is important. As far as sitting to piss, I generally stand. I'll sit if I feel like it.

Re:What's the big deal..

[Krazy Nemesis]

That's odd. I've had to clean both men's and women's public restrooms as well, and I'd have to say that used cotex and other USED feminine-hygiene-products all over the floor, along with the urine and feces being where it shouldn't, which are only slightly less prevalent than in the men's, make the women's FAR worse than anything I've ever encountered in any men's room. I could care less about the urine on the seat... it's the damn bloody thing on the floor that scares me. That's a biohazard for crying out loud. How flipping hard is it to hit the damn mini stainless trashcan anyway?

Re:What's the big deal..

[no_pets]

Someone earlier pointed out urine spray on the walls. I can say that I have actually encountered these strategically "decorated" toilets in which the seat will only stay up for a short time. Here I am in mid-piss when all of the sudden the damn seat starts to fall. Once in mid-piss it's hard to turn off the water works so quickly so in a fraction of a second you have to decide to piss on the seat or redirect to the walls. I remember as a little kid being short enough that I had to redirect or have "stuff" hit by a falling seat, thus spraying the walls.

This has caused more arguments for me than just the whole seat up or down argument as it is practically an evil trap perpetrated on men by women that want the seat left down.

Re:What's the big deal..

[KevMar]

Is there a lid and is it a public restroom?

If there is a lid, I put it down too. It hides the nasty bowl that I ever clean and its not realy that much work. that and I have a 2 year old running around ...

In the public restrooms, I leave the seat up. too many downies piss all over the seat and i would rather my seat was drip free when I sat on it.

Re:What's the big deal..

[Leto-II]

I'm not sure I'd always have enough length to make it to the end of this tunnel.

That sounds like a problem unrelated to your pants.

I did that to keep the dog out

[Solandri]

For the 5 years I was living alone with the dog, I lowered the lid after each toilet use to prevent the dog from drinking out of the bowl. I made sure to explain this rule and the rationale to everyone who visited.

All the women who used the toilet in those 5 years, every single one of them, left the lid up.
In comparison, about half the guys lowered the lid. Make of this what you will.

Simple solution...

[Chmcginn]

encourage the dog to lick guest's exposed skin. Then ask them if they left the toilet lid up or down.

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine..

[waterford0069]

Personally I think we (men) have the better deal. We can pee standing up, and if we are quick enough on the draw we can guarantee that we have more orgasms over our lifetime that our women :-)

The overriding factor here...

[FlyByPC]

The lid must be left down, otherwise my dog will drink out of the bowl.

If the lid is down, the seat must also be down.

Therefore, efficient or no, the seat goes down each time.

Re:What's the big deal..

[luder]

"Ask a woman about it, and she'll explain that some women "hover" over the seat."

Oh, so is that why women always go on pairs to the bathroom? To give directions each other?

"Down, down, down, stop! A bit to the left.. no, no, to the right... go, go, go, stop! Okay, start! Wait... shit! Go backwards, go backwards! OMG, what a mess you're doing!".

At least now I understand why so much mystery... And what about geek chicks? Do they use light sticks like the ones they use in airports to taxi airplanes?

Re:this from a male being

[danlock4]

>> (i'm 1.85 cm tall (and i like to drink beer), so it's a ~"far drop")

If you're only 1.85 cm tall, how do you get up to the top of the toilet bowl in the first place!?

Re:What's the big deal..

[jpkunst]

The vertical fly on underwear is indeed unworkable. That's why you should consider a brand with a horizontal fly. No problems getting your dick through there! I speak from experience.

JP

shorter code for women

[gr8dude]

assert(lid->position==DOWN);
sit();
pee();

It works fine when they're alone, which is why they have no need to develop a nice mechanism for error handling. Time passes by...
.
.
.
Being the man in the house, you better make sure the condition is always satisfied, because you don't want to know how a woman throws an error or worse... how a female blue screen looks like!

Re:This toilet seat thing is a pet peeve of mine..

[jamesh]

Once you add into the equation a half asleep daughter (~3yo) taking herself to the toilet in the middle of the night, you'll leave the toilet seat down regardless. Girls get very used to the toilet seat being down and can be surprisingly fearful of forgetting to check one day and 'falling in'.

If the toilet seat is the only battle you fight in your relationship, then I don't really think you have a problem. Get over it. I think people are allowed one or two pet peeves.

If it is, as you say, just the tip of the iceberg then I mostly agree with what you are saying, but if you are judging her purely on her preference or insistence that the seat stay down when not in use, then I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself. If it's really a control thing there will be other (and much more unreasonable) examples.

Re:What's the big deal..

[Mal-2]

I know you wouldn't want to do this in a public restroom, but the cure for this is simple -- move the hinges away from the tank. Even if it's not your bathroom, the owners will not figure out you spotted and fixed a problem, they'll just notice the damn thing doesn't fall any more.

What, you don't carry a Swiss army knife at all times?

Seriously though, sometimes all it takes is to grab the seat and wiggle it away from the tank. If it's mounted any tighter than that, and it's not yours, well then it really isn't your problem, is it? It will soon be pushed back as far as it will go by the cumulative impact of people sitting on it, but at least it won't annoy you any more for that particular visit.

Mal-2

Fragile Male Ego?

[lorcha]

Whenever I want to stoke my fragile male ego, I bend my wife over and fuck her up the ass.

What gratification is there in toilet lids?

Re:What's the big deal..

[zobier]

I can attest to this method. I am however disappointed to see Malaclypse the Younger suggesting this and not the reverse, this would make a great Discordian prank.

Re:sit down to piss

[Kesshi]

Even if you sit to #1, you still have to aim, silly. It isn't a hands-free endeavour!
When you turn on a firehose attached to a dinghy it will fly out of control.
When you turn on a firehose attached to a barge it generally doesn't affect the direction of the barge.

Just sayin'.