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Windows-Based iPhone Rival for Business Users
MsManhattan writes "High Tech Computer Corp. (HTC) has unveiled a touch-screen mobile device that offers many of the same features as the iPhone but with an emphasis on business applications vs. entertainment value. The HTC Touch is based on Microsoft's Windows Mobile 6 Professional OS and features a 2.8-inch touch screen offering access to emails, contacts and appointments. But unlike the iPhone, which will feature large internal flash memory capacity for music and movie storage, the HTC Touch offers a microSD drive, and a 1G-byte microSD card comes with the handset."
No pictures or videos?
Anyone else want to bet that the iPhone from Apple blows away this device from High Tech in the asthetics and user interface categories?
I bet they name it something like "S360-X Pearl 1GB."
I'm going to reiterate what I said yesterday about the iPhone:
It's not features that will make or break a smartphone device as the iPhone comes out, it's the ingenuity of the interface. Just because this has a touch-screen doesn't mean it's going to be a fraction as intuitive or usable for the average person. Windows Mobile is not a platform based on new ideas. --Ted
Limina.Log
Here you go
I'll start. My HTC (cingular 8525) is a sliding-keyboard touchscreen phone on WM5. The biggest drawback is that they're monsters, and they're too delicate. For both those reasons, I never put my phone in my pocket, I have to carry it around.
It's so bad, I actually unlocked my old Razr so I'd have something to take out with me at night.
http://www.htctouch.com/
To be honest, you might as well say all Windows Mobile based phones are iPhone rivals. I would prefer to say it's just a competitor in the smartphone space, as iPhone will be when it arrives.
I own an earlier HTC WM5 smartphone model, and I'm guessing that despite having a new swish frontend, it'll still be not quite as nice to use as the iPhone will be. However, the big draw is that being Windows Mobile based, you'll be able to run any software you want on it without having to go through Apple, unlike the iPhone.
You know, it's pretty easy to get tired of the direction that some here always try pushing a conversation that has anything to do with Apple. Yes, I like Apple machines. But that's because the accomplish for me what I want them to do, with ease. If they looked (and here's where the style-over-substance folks get it wrong) like a pile of dump, I'd still use them. If the reverse were true (they look as they do, but don't deliver the goods that I need), I'd never have bought my last one just to have a brushed-metal two grand doorstop. And yes, I do use non-mac stuff too. In fact I have a highly useful Linux box at home, that looks, from the outside, well, like a pile of beige dump.
/rant
I guess what I'm saying, is that it's not too useful to immediately start making fun of the iPhone with the substance argument, in a discussion that's about a different product. We've seen the picture now, thanks to a previous poster. Let's talk about that--looks pretty nice, wouldn't buy it for personal use, wouldn't buy an iPhone either.
u-bend
This is not informative unless you can link to evidence that shows there is a general problem with the product. Your post alone is an anecdote. If, say, 10% of these phones suffer the same problem as yours did, that would be informative. Otherwise, there is no useful information here.
Is it available in brown?
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
My MDA (HTC Wizard) has been dropped (HARD once or twice) several times and the worst that happened was one of the tabs for the battery cover snapped off.
Not to mention the awesome support for messing with it.
I LOVE my HTC, but I suppose YMMV.
"prestige"
Your kidding me right? Nobel laureates have prestige. Having an apple product which anyone can buy does not give you prestige. In fact I can't think of any generic tech consumer item which would give you any prestige. You know what I think when I see someone with a windows machine, apple, linux, etc. They have a computer good for them how nice.
It costs 354.95 GBP SIM-free, or nothing with a 12 month / 45 GBP contract. As per www.expansys.com
...this plays straight into the whole "Hi, I'm a Mac. And I'm a PC" ads. In fact, it fits so well it smells like a joke.
"iPhone is to much fun to get work done. We must have a windows-based 'business' equivalent."
Please. Enough already.
You misspelled "iPhone Killer"...
And since it isn't even out yet, I guess that would be an iPhone Aborter.
You can't take the sky from me...
HTC have tremendous hardware. Those guys are brilliant, really.
But, there is a really huge problem with HTC. Those guys have crappy software : bad piggy translation, NDA Legacy APIs, little Java support (almost no JSR supported !), little upgrade program.
Translation is not acceptable, I know it is not blocking stuff. But when you pay high price for some high end phone you expect it to be "high quality" as well and this include your ability to use it in your native language. One example : In french, they translate the button "call" (to call somebody) into "parler" (french for "speak"). This sounds very weird in French language context.
NDA Legacy API blocks people (read /.ers) to improve/extend their phone capabilities. For instance, get rid of the crappy camera software and brind their own replacement software. But with HTC policy, you have to pay big bucks and sign a NDA to get a documented API !!!! Or you have to do it "da real 1337 wayz" which means glue/ducktape and uggly stuffs.
Bad Java support, means that even if they are usually embeding a MIDP compatible Virtual Machine, they do not offer any JSR support. This means : no camera support, no bluettoth support, etc ! What is the use of having a bluetooth & camera phone if you can not run application that use those features ?
Minimum upgrade program, means, that once you buy a HTC phone you have high probability to stuck foreever with the curret version & revision of the OS you have bought. This means : bugs, security flaws included. An example of this, the award winning HTC Magician (also known as QTek S100) was offered no WM5 upgrade program. I mean, owners/customers willing to pay lot of money to upgrade. But the manufacturer does not care to propose a deal. Should we force to by a new handset to get a new OS ? I am questioned ...
So until HTC fits those lacks, I am sorry to say, any WM poweruser should keep away from HTC phones and move to other manufacturers that offers better products.
Can you assemble a grid of them into a coffee table?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
The screen resolution of the HTC device is only QVGA: 320 x 240. The iPhone is 320 x 480 (half VGA). This is a major difference in usability.
After trying to switch from a Palm TX (320 x 480) to a Windows Mobile QVGA PDA, one thing that stopped me was the beautiful screen on the Palm vs. the QVGA on the WM5 device.
"Oh God help us. We're in the hands of engineers."
My 8525 took one heck of a crash to a tile floor and the keypad lifted up and the casing seemed bent. I pulled out at the casing (metal) and the keypad popped back into place and the case returned to its normal shape. The phone still works great (except of the occasional glitch (the phone occasionally won't repaint unless I slide the keypad to change the orientation) that seems like software, but the crash happened when the phone was way too new for me to know...)
Its hard to call this device fragile.
I do keep it in a pouch on my belt to protect it from keys and other crap in my pocket.
It plays videos, mp3 files, and all. I used it as a portable device for an Amazon unbox video (that I got on sale using a free unbox credit...) and lost the license when I upgraded the firmware. It is now seen as a different device and used my 2nd license.
Its processor is a little slow for those videos, I need to stick with DRM free video so I can compress it a bit more. I guess it could be the SD card speed as well.
From TFA:
"..device designed with one-touch screen.."
Not exactly the same as the iPhone. At least I can finally give microsoft "the finger", literally.
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
i have the 8525 .. i jsut got a nice belt clip for it.. and i don't have to worry about it..
for what it does it is one of the best devices i have bought.. well worth the money
although it is completly point less without the data plan.. the data plan is what makes it shine
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
Windows Mobile, because who ever said that only desktop devices should have to be hard-rebooted on a daily basis?
My T-Mobile MDA has been dropped more times than I can count and stepped on a couple times. Aside from having to replace the cover for the antenna / camera lens, it has only minor scratches. It works as perfect as the day I bought it.
Either you got a bad phone, or you are performing tasks on the order of attempting to make a call from 100 ft under water without a waterproof cover. A friend's 8525 was recently cracked open while he was in Iraq. He replaced the casing and screen and it worked perfect as of when I saw him this weekend...
Erutangis ym si siht.
So how is it going to rival the iPhone? From htc.com: "Building on its rich ten year history of mobile phone innovations, the HTC Touch(TM) represents extensive research and development and the conviction that fingertip control will enable more efficient, natural and intuitive touch screen navigation. The groundbreaking HTC Touch(TM) offers a new and unique way of controlling touch screen-based devices by recognising and responding to the sweep of a finger across the screen. It is even intelligent enough to distinguish between finger and stylus input and then respond accordingly." So it has some nice features allowing the user to use single-touch more effectively. This does not come close to the wow factor and the _crazy_ levels of input freedom provided by a multi-touch interface.
@AlexSheive
Yeah. It's recommended you run at least that instead of the MS Windows Mobile Home Edition that has fewer features...
Personally I run MS Windows Mobile Media Center Live Ultimate 2007.
I have a HTC 8125 (Cingular branded) that I hate. The problems I have aren't so much with the device, although the hardware obviously plays a part, but the God awful software. Windows Mobile just sucks. Maybe Windows Mobile 6 will be better than version 5 on my handset but I am skeptical. I am planning to buy the iPhone sometime after it hits the market if it meets my needs, which my current HTC/Windows Mobile does not. Namely the things that suck worst are the following:
I am hoping that the iPhone will do correctly what Microsoft and Palm seem to not be able to figure out. Namely I want my iPhone to meet my functional expectations and barring any functional shortfalls the only thing I am waiting to see are the following from AT&T:
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
Is it touch or multitouch? Because those are not nearly the same thing. Multitouch is a much much more complicated (to implement) yet intuitive (to use) interface, and really is the whole reason for the iPhone brouhaha.
One look at a picture is enough to convince me that this is no competitor because they (MS, and the MS Mobile devision) simply still don't get it.
Why? There's the "Start" bar right up on the screen. Aside from the 12-year-old nonsense of the start menu itself, the bar takes up precious screen estate all the time. On a desktop screen, that's a nuissance. On a mobile screen where every pixel counts, it plain out sucks.
More importantly: It's a brilliant indicator for the mindset. MS insists on cluttering the screen with its logo and a couple status icons. Apple builds as if they wanted to actually use the thing.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
A better question is if it will work at all in Paris ... or anywhere. The image is an obvious fake for all the reasons you mention and the incompatibility of US / EU phone systems. How about a picture of a real phone?
;)
It's a GSM phone. You know, GSM, the so-called Global System for Mobile communications... the main system in Europe, and on a number of US providers. As long as there is service on one of the GSM bands supported by the phone, it will work. My boss uses his Cingular (GSM) Treo 650 all over the place, including France. You should see the roaming charges for data use in China though.
In response to the GP... I wonder how many people in Paris are actually using Fahrenheit these days, anyways... aside from American tourists with fake iPhones, that is.
You have to be in Paris to see the temperature there? That's funny, I have access to this thing called the Internet that lets me see all kinds of things like the temperature in other places, without me having to actually be there. You should try it some time.
Putting moderation advice in your
I ditched my htc sprint ppc 6700 because:
-too much latency overall
-poor phone quality, comfort, aesthetic
-heavy
-wanted to be able to search contacts and make calls without flipping keyboard out or using two hands.
-didn't like rebooting everyday to get the email flowing again.
-I looked like an ass while I was using it.
I bought a blackberry 8700 and I love it; it eliminated all of those issues. It's a bit bigger than a regular phone but the other benefits (email, calendar, big screen) are worth it.
For my needs the bb 8700 can't be beat.
HTC makes perfect hardware, but the software it runs sucks big time. Yes, I talk about Windows Mobile. I am an owner of an HTC Universal, also known as Qtek 9000, which looks like a small laptop. The first problem I had with the device was that although the TFT screen is capable of displaying 640x480 resolution, Windows Mobile limit the output to 320x240, making the device unsuitable for the original reason I bought it (Slashdot, eh..., Internet surfing over 3G cellular networks, later also Python hacking and SSHing while on the road). Thanks to a little Russian hack, OzVga, I have an easy interface to switch between 640x480 and 320x240 anytime I want (ie never, as I only use 640x480). I really can't understand why MS stupidly sets 320x240 as th default resolution, without offering any interface to change it except through the registry. Windows Mobile crash very frequently, are very slow (even on Universal's 520MHz ARM CPU), have the most user-unfriendly and stupid interface I have ever seen since Spectrum's keyboard, and makes my life as a user very difficult. There is a project to port Linux on Universal but it is still in its infancy. I would really describe HTC's Universal as a device combining the perfect hardware with the most unusable software you could ever imagine. HTC really destroys its reputation by cooperating with MS. I am sure HTC could exponentially increase its sales by loading a non-MS OS, preferably open-source like Linux, on all its new PDAs. The best thing HTC can do is to open its hardware platform documentation and let Linux hackers create a Linux port on Universal or future similar device, then sponsor the effort and make Linux the default OS.
so why didn't you go to the HTC Universal? Full VGA (640x480)
seriously, there's so many non-arguments about the iPhone vs everything else based on individual aspects. the iPhone will kick ass because of the overall package. It will still have its shortcomings (i.e. resolution, no buttons (it's a feature!), etc.) but overall it will be a better package than most everything out there. There'll always be people who need something that the iPhone can't offer, and they will go with something else... or deal with it and remain looking hip with an iPhone that doesn't do entirely what they need it to.
I hate touch-sensative surfaces. While they're nice in theory and in some limited situations, they are nearly impossible to use without looking at them, there's no tactile feedback and they often promote mistouching.
Its the one thing (besides the built-in obsolescence) that would totally keep me away from an iPhone. I want my buttons.
This was not a hardware problem. I had the phone replaced under warranty five times with the same result. I ran no third-party applications. Every person in my company hates their 700w. That is not an exaggeration. I am the IT guy here and handle all the cell phones. Literally everyone has told me how much they hate the phone. I now use a 700p (palm OS) and have zero problems. As you may have gathered, I will never use another Windows-driven PIM and will take every opportunity (like this one) to expound on their crappiness.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
I'm the IT guy for the little marketing company I work at and one of the owner's had a 700w, replaced a 650, that had all kinds of problems, replaced three times before I convinced her to insist on getting a new in box 700wx from Verizon. The 700wx has fixed the problem of not ringing on an incoming call and most of the other really annoying problems relating to email.
If you are with Verizon and having issues with the 700w I'd suggest badgering tech support to give you and your coworkers new, not refurbed, 700wx units.
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
QFT!
I have an 8525 as well, and am pretty happy with it, especially with the data plan.
That said, I'd love to have a bit more resolution than 320x240. 320x480 sounds damn nice.
(As AT&T users, we at least can trade up though, I hope!)
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
Hi, just a friendly reply to your complaints. Yours are perfectly valid, but I would like to comment.
I have no trouble dialing with my thumb.
The only browser that I've found that even works in a somewhat acceptable fashion is Pocket IE. Also, Google Moble will rewrite pages for you to look really nice in the browser. Also, I rarely (its probably been months now) have to soft reset the device.
Orientation has always worked fine for me. Also, you can configure when the onscreen keyboard pops up (I turned it on but found I could work more efficiently with it on.
I just put everything on the SD card. That way I can back it up seperately from the device and move it from device to device quickly. Seems saner than leaving data on the device.
Also, you're on Cingular's GSM network. Switch to Sprint or Verizon and you'll see quite a boost in data speeds.