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Windows-Based iPhone Rival for Business Users
MsManhattan writes "High Tech Computer Corp. (HTC) has unveiled a touch-screen mobile device that offers many of the same features as the iPhone but with an emphasis on business applications vs. entertainment value. The HTC Touch is based on Microsoft's Windows Mobile 6 Professional OS and features a 2.8-inch touch screen offering access to emails, contacts and appointments. But unlike the iPhone, which will feature large internal flash memory capacity for music and movie storage, the HTC Touch offers a microSD drive, and a 1G-byte microSD card comes with the handset."
No pictures or videos?
Anyone else want to bet that the iPhone from Apple blows away this device from High Tech in the asthetics and user interface categories?
I bet they name it something like "S360-X Pearl 1GB."
I'm going to reiterate what I said yesterday about the iPhone:
It's not features that will make or break a smartphone device as the iPhone comes out, it's the ingenuity of the interface. Just because this has a touch-screen doesn't mean it's going to be a fraction as intuitive or usable for the average person. Windows Mobile is not a platform based on new ideas. --Ted
Limina.Log
Here you go
I'll start. My HTC (cingular 8525) is a sliding-keyboard touchscreen phone on WM5. The biggest drawback is that they're monsters, and they're too delicate. For both those reasons, I never put my phone in my pocket, I have to carry it around.
It's so bad, I actually unlocked my old Razr so I'd have something to take out with me at night.
http://www.htctouch.com/
To be honest, you might as well say all Windows Mobile based phones are iPhone rivals. I would prefer to say it's just a competitor in the smartphone space, as iPhone will be when it arrives.
I own an earlier HTC WM5 smartphone model, and I'm guessing that despite having a new swish frontend, it'll still be not quite as nice to use as the iPhone will be. However, the big draw is that being Windows Mobile based, you'll be able to run any software you want on it without having to go through Apple, unlike the iPhone.
They say that the manufacturer didn't provide pricing, but say they're currently on sale in the UK. OK, so how about telling us what the UK price is? Some fine reporting there.
Is the iPhone memory not expandable?
You know, it's pretty easy to get tired of the direction that some here always try pushing a conversation that has anything to do with Apple. Yes, I like Apple machines. But that's because the accomplish for me what I want them to do, with ease. If they looked (and here's where the style-over-substance folks get it wrong) like a pile of dump, I'd still use them. If the reverse were true (they look as they do, but don't deliver the goods that I need), I'd never have bought my last one just to have a brushed-metal two grand doorstop. And yes, I do use non-mac stuff too. In fact I have a highly useful Linux box at home, that looks, from the outside, well, like a pile of beige dump.
/rant
I guess what I'm saying, is that it's not too useful to immediately start making fun of the iPhone with the substance argument, in a discussion that's about a different product. We've seen the picture now, thanks to a previous poster. Let's talk about that--looks pretty nice, wouldn't buy it for personal use, wouldn't buy an iPhone either.
u-bend
Ok, let's see. The logic for the charging process (it features a Lithium-polymer battery) is offloaded to the CPU, so when the inevitable crash comes that leaves the unit hung and the user leaves it in that state, the battery will drain past the safe threshold, ruining its capacity. One bug (and one user mistake)leaves the device unusable...
(this is offcourse pure speculation for those who love that kind of stuff)
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
This is not informative unless you can link to evidence that shows there is a general problem with the product. Your post alone is an anecdote. If, say, 10% of these phones suffer the same problem as yours did, that would be informative. Otherwise, there is no useful information here.
Is it available in brown?
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
My MDA (HTC Wizard) has been dropped (HARD once or twice) several times and the worst that happened was one of the tabs for the battery cover snapped off.
Not to mention the awesome support for messing with it.
I LOVE my HTC, but I suppose YMMV.
"prestige"
Your kidding me right? Nobel laureates have prestige. Having an apple product which anyone can buy does not give you prestige. In fact I can't think of any generic tech consumer item which would give you any prestige. You know what I think when I see someone with a windows machine, apple, linux, etc. They have a computer good for them how nice.
It costs 354.95 GBP SIM-free, or nothing with a 12 month / 45 GBP contract. As per www.expansys.com
...this plays straight into the whole "Hi, I'm a Mac. And I'm a PC" ads. In fact, it fits so well it smells like a joke.
"iPhone is to much fun to get work done. We must have a windows-based 'business' equivalent."
Please. Enough already.
Who do I trust to make a slick usable media playing phone, Apple, or HTC? Well, HTC's hype site for the phone showed me nothing but a progress bar for 10 seconds, then asked me (in English) if I wanted to read the site in English. Not a good start!
What's the Spec like? Half the screen resolution of the iPhone, and 1/4 the memory?
I'll pass on this one, thanks.
A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
HTC has been making these devices for some years (and several models mith touch screen PLUS slide-out alphanumeric keyboard).
/. discussion?
Now that Saint Jobs has something similar (let's call it by its true name: iMitation), it suddenly becomes worth a
You misspelled "iPhone Killer"...
And since it isn't even out yet, I guess that would be an iPhone Aborter.
You can't take the sky from me...
HTC have tremendous hardware. Those guys are brilliant, really.
But, there is a really huge problem with HTC. Those guys have crappy software : bad piggy translation, NDA Legacy APIs, little Java support (almost no JSR supported !), little upgrade program.
Translation is not acceptable, I know it is not blocking stuff. But when you pay high price for some high end phone you expect it to be "high quality" as well and this include your ability to use it in your native language. One example : In french, they translate the button "call" (to call somebody) into "parler" (french for "speak"). This sounds very weird in French language context.
NDA Legacy API blocks people (read /.ers) to improve/extend their phone capabilities. For instance, get rid of the crappy camera software and brind their own replacement software. But with HTC policy, you have to pay big bucks and sign a NDA to get a documented API !!!! Or you have to do it "da real 1337 wayz" which means glue/ducktape and uggly stuffs.
Bad Java support, means that even if they are usually embeding a MIDP compatible Virtual Machine, they do not offer any JSR support. This means : no camera support, no bluettoth support, etc ! What is the use of having a bluetooth & camera phone if you can not run application that use those features ?
Minimum upgrade program, means, that once you buy a HTC phone you have high probability to stuck foreever with the curret version & revision of the OS you have bought. This means : bugs, security flaws included. An example of this, the award winning HTC Magician (also known as QTek S100) was offered no WM5 upgrade program. I mean, owners/customers willing to pay lot of money to upgrade. But the manufacturer does not care to propose a deal. Should we force to by a new handset to get a new OS ? I am questioned ...
So until HTC fits those lacks, I am sorry to say, any WM poweruser should keep away from HTC phones and move to other manufacturers that offers better products.
... is here.
That is all.
Here are a couple videos of the device in action. Looks pretty pathetic to me. The rotating menu screen effect is kinda cool, but the menus it displays look awful and you keep getting dropped into the Windows Mobile interface and apps which kills any hope of making the device feel truly slick and integrated.
I had a HTC 6700 (Alltel) and my screen broke because I took it out of my coat pocket. It hadn't had any pressure applied to it, it just broke for no good reason. Thankfully my insurance with Alltel got me a Treo 700wx where I can enjoy real battery life again too.
Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
Can you assemble a grid of them into a coffee table?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
The screen resolution of the HTC device is only QVGA: 320 x 240. The iPhone is 320 x 480 (half VGA). This is a major difference in usability.
After trying to switch from a Palm TX (320 x 480) to a Windows Mobile QVGA PDA, one thing that stopped me was the beautiful screen on the Palm vs. the QVGA on the WM5 device.
"Oh God help us. We're in the hands of engineers."
My 8525 took one heck of a crash to a tile floor and the keypad lifted up and the casing seemed bent. I pulled out at the casing (metal) and the keypad popped back into place and the case returned to its normal shape. The phone still works great (except of the occasional glitch (the phone occasionally won't repaint unless I slide the keypad to change the orientation) that seems like software, but the crash happened when the phone was way too new for me to know...)
Its hard to call this device fragile.
I do keep it in a pouch on my belt to protect it from keys and other crap in my pocket.
It plays videos, mp3 files, and all. I used it as a portable device for an Amazon unbox video (that I got on sale using a free unbox credit...) and lost the license when I upgraded the firmware. It is now seen as a different device and used my 2nd license.
Its processor is a little slow for those videos, I need to stick with DRM free video so I can compress it a bit more. I guess it could be the SD card speed as well.
From TFA:
"..device designed with one-touch screen.."
Not exactly the same as the iPhone. At least I can finally give microsoft "the finger", literally.
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
Whatever, most people consider HTC one of the best OEMs period. I've loved most of the hardware that has come from HTC--most of the faults were with Microsoft's crappy OS. But considering the alternatives so far, what can you do?!
i have the 8525 .. i jsut got a nice belt clip for it.. and i don't have to worry about it..
for what it does it is one of the best devices i have bought.. well worth the money
although it is completly point less without the data plan.. the data plan is what makes it shine
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
I got two HTC models and both suck. Especially at battery life. They do get better with each version, but they are a long way from being handy. Also Internet connectivity is really bad.
They have a professional version of their mobile OS?
Professional = pocket pc (pda with touch screen)
Standard = smart phone aka "candy bar"
Destroy, erase, improve
Sorry that I didn't go and call all owners of the Dash/Excalibur and determine the percentage that had their screen break as well before posting. Next time I will do that for you.
5 72877/dash+screen+cracked and see some examples of other people having the same problem, or look at some of the other replys that mention they had a screen break on it as well.
You can read through http://www.htcwiki.com/page/T-Mobile+Dash/thread/
Windows Mobile, because who ever said that only desktop devices should have to be hard-rebooted on a daily basis?
My T-Mobile MDA has been dropped more times than I can count and stepped on a couple times. Aside from having to replace the cover for the antenna / camera lens, it has only minor scratches. It works as perfect as the day I bought it.
Either you got a bad phone, or you are performing tasks on the order of attempting to make a call from 100 ft under water without a waterproof cover. A friend's 8525 was recently cracked open while he was in Iraq. He replaced the casing and screen and it worked perfect as of when I saw him this weekend...
Erutangis ym si siht.
So how is it going to rival the iPhone? From htc.com: "Building on its rich ten year history of mobile phone innovations, the HTC Touch(TM) represents extensive research and development and the conviction that fingertip control will enable more efficient, natural and intuitive touch screen navigation. The groundbreaking HTC Touch(TM) offers a new and unique way of controlling touch screen-based devices by recognising and responding to the sweep of a finger across the screen. It is even intelligent enough to distinguish between finger and stylus input and then respond accordingly." So it has some nice features allowing the user to use single-touch more effectively. This does not come close to the wow factor and the _crazy_ levels of input freedom provided by a multi-touch interface.
@AlexSheive
Alone in Paris, FR with no date.
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
... are e.e. cummings fanbois.
let's face it. just about anyone posting on the web and, even moreso, on slashdot has absolutely no knowledge about the iphone aside from a handful of press releases, fanboi bigotry and fud.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Did you forget about the World's Most Expensive Mp3 Player?
Yeah. It's recommended you run at least that instead of the MS Windows Mobile Home Edition that has fewer features...
Personally I run MS Windows Mobile Media Center Live Ultimate 2007.
Nonetheless, it remains a huge flaming advertisement / troll.
Nice. In that case though it's the money which gives the prestige not the actual item. If someone created the worlds largest turn and covered it in diamonds and it sold for $50 million what would be the prestige factor: the fact you have 50 million dollars you can spend on the turn covered in diamonds or that you have a turd covered in diamonds (might be a close call). Lol.
A $500 generic consumer tech toy however isn't going to earn you must prestige.
Ah yes, Microsoft innovates some more ideas from Apple.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
remember the ipod battery issues? Apple finally gave in and allowed (for a fee) people to replace the batteries. If I remember right there are ipod battery replacement kits now. The same will follow for the iphone.
It is a rechargeable battery. Remember to completely kill it once in a while. With the ipod, run it till the battery dies and the unit turns off. Then keep turning it on till it will not turn on. Then charge it until it says it has a full charge. Then kill the battery all the way again. Remember to not keep the item charging all the time. I have found that this shortens the running time (with the laptop, ipod, and cell phone anyway). I have been doing this with all the rechargeable thing I have (cell phones, ipod, laptops, cordless drills, even the rc cars from way back). You lose the use of the device for a while. But the battery stays alive. Things I use often (cell phone, ipod, laptop) get done every 6-7 months. The drills about once a year.
Unfortunately your "M$" reference is currently modded -1, Troll.
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
I wonder how many people in Paris are actually using Fahrenheit these days, anyways... aside from American tourists with fake iPhones, that is. ;)
A better question is if it will work at all in Paris ... or anywhere. The image is an obvious fake for all the reasons you mention and the incompatibility of US / EU phone systems. How about a picture of a real phone?
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I have a HTC 8125 (Cingular branded) that I hate. The problems I have aren't so much with the device, although the hardware obviously plays a part, but the God awful software. Windows Mobile just sucks. Maybe Windows Mobile 6 will be better than version 5 on my handset but I am skeptical. I am planning to buy the iPhone sometime after it hits the market if it meets my needs, which my current HTC/Windows Mobile does not. Namely the things that suck worst are the following:
I am hoping that the iPhone will do correctly what Microsoft and Palm seem to not be able to figure out. Namely I want my iPhone to meet my functional expectations and barring any functional shortfalls the only thing I am waiting to see are the following from AT&T:
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
Is it touch or multitouch? Because those are not nearly the same thing. Multitouch is a much much more complicated (to implement) yet intuitive (to use) interface, and really is the whole reason for the iPhone brouhaha.
I like how they put appointments on the default screen. How cool would it be to whip this thing out and show off your next doctor's appointment? Probably as cool as putting your contacts and calendar on a device owned by a company that admits to data mining and selling information about their customers - the telco and M$. Privacy is impossible without free software.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Isn't that always the case?
To be honest, you might as well say all Windows Mobile based phones are iPhone rivals ...
Yes, but this one is an obvious knock off designed to harm the sales of a competitor in another space - desktops. As usual, the M$ PR drones are claiming the HTC is all things iPhone, but it's not.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I guess it boils down to: prestige due to your actions (cure cancer, charity work, take a one man business globally in a few years) vs. prestige because you have money to buy stuff.
....Paris Hilton. Both have money....though the mean sin which they got it I think would dictate their prestige, respect, whatever.
Look at the google guys. From nothing to billionaires, may years hard work, etc. Versus say
But in regards to the GP though, in my opinion, apple products don't have prestige. They don't give you prestige. But hey whatever works for other people
This is not informative unless you can link to evidence that shows there is a general problem with the product. Your post alone is an anecdote. If, say, 10% of these phones suffer the same problem as yours did, that would be informative. Otherwise, there is no useful information here.
HTC is known for having low build quality. Most people don't realize this until after they purchase a windows mobile device. I too am an ex-owner of a windows mobile smartphone. The keys stopped functioning properly (and eventually at all) right around the end of my one-year warranty period. I did not do anything unusual with the phone except carry it with me every day.
The major annoyance here is that these phones are very expensive. If you buy something that expensive, it has to last you a long time.
One look at a picture is enough to convince me that this is no competitor because they (MS, and the MS Mobile devision) simply still don't get it.
Why? There's the "Start" bar right up on the screen. Aside from the 12-year-old nonsense of the start menu itself, the bar takes up precious screen estate all the time. On a desktop screen, that's a nuissance. On a mobile screen where every pixel counts, it plain out sucks.
More importantly: It's a brilliant indicator for the mindset. MS insists on cluttering the screen with its logo and a couple status icons. Apple builds as if they wanted to actually use the thing.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I own an HTC phone, specifically the Cingular 8125 from last year. The new Touch replaces it and the 8525 model that came after the 8125. The 8125 is a Windows Mobile 5 Pocket PC device. Having used this thing for several months, I'm confident in proclaiming my phone as a flaming bag of poo. The design is terrible...the dial buttons are too easy to push and if the phone is unlocked, it's real easy for the phone to dial people by itself while its in your hip holster. And I've had phone calls cut off if the hang-up button is accidentally pressed while in the hip holster. The Windows interface is a poor paradigm for handheld computing...devices like this were not made for pull down menus. It crashes...a lot. Pocket Internet Explorer is a complete waste of time....buggy and almost unusable. The only two things my phone is good for is push mail (where my company wrote a specific client) and my Slingbox client. I'd be really pissed if I had to pay full price for this thing (thank you steep company discount).
Your kidding me right? Nobel laureates have prestige. Having an apple product which anyone can buy does not give you prestige. In fact I can't think of any generic tech consumer item which would give you any prestige.
Where did you hole up during the beginning of the ipod hype? There most definitely was a period where owning an ipod meant instant coolness and prestige among most teenagers and twenty-somethings.
People can have prestige due to their actions, but that's not quite the same for objects. Their monetary value is generally the only value they have (other than the owner's personal attachment to the item).
The only exception I can see is "one of a kind" objects. For example, the Command Module from Apollo 11 (Columbia) carries a much greater prestige than one of the CMs they used in unmanned testing even though a truly objective evaluation of their value would find they are roughly equal.
Actually, what exactly is the business use of being able to edit spreadsheets on your mobile phone? I'm sure you'll be able to get real quality work done on the plane, on a tiny screen with an even smaller keyboard.
Appointments, sure. Calender, addressbook, a bit of websurfing to get directions or a map - all that I can understand. But "business applications" on a mobile phone, to me that yells that your business isn't important or profitable enough for a notebook or that you're too disorganized to finish things before leaving for the trip.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
A better question is if it will work at all in Paris ... or anywhere. The image is an obvious fake for all the reasons you mention and the incompatibility of US / EU phone systems. How about a picture of a real phone?
;)
It's a GSM phone. You know, GSM, the so-called Global System for Mobile communications... the main system in Europe, and on a number of US providers. As long as there is service on one of the GSM bands supported by the phone, it will work. My boss uses his Cingular (GSM) Treo 650 all over the place, including France. You should see the roaming charges for data use in China though.
In response to the GP... I wonder how many people in Paris are actually using Fahrenheit these days, anyways... aside from American tourists with fake iPhones, that is.
You have to be in Paris to see the temperature there? That's funny, I have access to this thing called the Internet that lets me see all kinds of things like the temperature in other places, without me having to actually be there. You should try it some time.
Putting moderation advice in your
See, that's just the thing. It's the software that will make the iPhone interesting. So the flip side of your argument is that you won't be able to run OS X software on the Windows Mobile based smart phones. That's a pretty serious detraction. I don't want some MP3 player patched onto my phone with duct-tape, I want the iPod version of iTunes, integrated seemlessly. I don't want some rinky-dink pretend-to-edit-a-spreadsheet-on-your-phone crap. Nobody really does that on a 2 inch screen with 100 dpi resolution. I want random access to my voicemails. I want Google maps so easy to use that you know how to use it from watching the damn commercial, without having to read the manual or sign up for a training session. I want seemless access to wifi hotspots and EDGE, until the day AT&T has their HSDPA network in place and I can upgrade to 3G. I don't want the endless futzing that is the hallmark of Windows 802.11 access.
More importantly, the innovation loop for Apple is pretty tight. I have an idea for something that I would like on the iPhone. I describe the idea and submit it to Apple's Bug Reporter system at Apple Developer Connection. They ponder it, maybe even improve it, and implement it. I get it on my iPhone in a future software update. I know this will happen because I've done it a bunch of times with Mac OS X.
I also know from experience that this loop is broken for Palm OS, Windows Mobile, and Symbian. Trying to help them improve their products by giving them an idea is really pretty futile. It's so bad that the hacker underground has been hacking assembly code and patching firmware to fix bugs. Oh, yes! There is actually an underground community and 3rd party market in hacking assembly code on cell phones to fix firmware bugs and even some UI issues on cell phones. That is so mind-bogglingly broken I have to meditate for a moment. I'll be right back... OK. Whew. Man, that's so broken. The entire industry is broken, that's so broken.
That's so broken that a guy who heads a company that makes PCs and MP3 players decided he finally had to bet the farm and try to fix it, because it was clear after five years of watching it carefully it was never going to get fixed by anybody else. Oh, and thousands of people were begging him to try to fix it, too.
It's even more broken than that, however. Suppose not an end user like me, but, say, a handset maker or wireless carrier has an idea. It's pretty clear from the extensive track record that the pace of innovation in software on PalmOS, Windows Mobile, and Symbian is really a lot slower than it should be. The handset makers using Symbian couldn't get ideas into Symbian fast enough, so they tried to solve this problem by building their own custom layer on top of Symbian, basically they are implementing their own OS as a layer on top so they can get changes in faster. The result has been at least three incompatible Symbian versions now, and they are sagging under the weight of the alliance that was supposed to provide a common platform. The 3rd party app market suffers. The vendors suffer. The users suffer. But nobody fixes the problem, because they all think of the problem as whatever little piece of broken bit they are looking at right now. They don't realize the problem is that a "common platform" has suddenly become a burden, drains resources from their developer communtiy, drains developer resources from the handset makers, and leads to a substantially heavier burden of bugs and performance and compatibility issues on the end users. Nobody realizes the problem is really the broken process for getting feedback from customers and turning it into software.
Flash based UI are another way to try to solve this problem. Here again, we see an attempt to recreate the full features of the OS so the handset maker can "innovate" without letting the handset maker actually change (imrove or fix) the OS, and without the OS vendor changing it for them. The result is a tower of complexity, brokenness,
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
I have to make fun of people who define themselves by what they buy. And you should too.
I must completely disagree here. The platform is mostly irrelevant
:(
I humbly point out my own blog entry on why, as a former Palm software engineer, I switched to the Cingular 8525 (the most modern HTC phone that's currently out), and definitely did NOT want the IPhone.
Call me a hater, but it's all about functionality. Every interface is cumbersome when you are first exposed to it. Do the apple guys do it better than the windows guys? Sure. But honestly, I've been able to figure out how to do everything on the 8525 pretty easily -- including uploading music from my mac book pro.
The #1 thing is 3G. you'd be crazy to buy a phone now that doesn't have 3G. You say IPhone v2 will have it? That's going to kill sales of IPhone v1 -- and then there won't BE a v2.
But what I really want is functionality. Find someone who has a 3G phone, and try using google maps for mobile with a super highspeed connection. It's like being Jack Bauer with less killing. Likewise, It's a REQUIREMENT for my phone (and music player) that I be able to swap files EASILY, and add/remove music (and other files) from ANY computer.
SSH over 3G is pretty damn good. I've run vi, but I have to admit, I switched to using ed for complicated editing. And that's because I don't go for these new fangled editors. Plus, there's no easily accessible esc on the 8525 keyboard
Finally -- I wanted to sync my address book and calendar from my device with my gmail account. Both WM5 and Google are open APIs! So I'm writing it (which means it will suck, but still). Apple does not to seem to want you to be able to do that.
Also, if I want to make an mp3 into my ringtones, the 8525 says "go right ahead!" On the Iphone, you have to buy ringtones from ITMS.
So for me it's all about functionality -- or what you call "features." As crazy as it sounds, the Windows Mobile Platform is MUCH more open than the IPhone. Is that CRAZY? Yes. I don't know how that could have happened, and if Apple changes there position, and opens the API to anyone who wants to give it a shot, then I'll be happy to take a look at it. But until then, when I think of the IPhone I think NO CARRIER.
When I worked at Palm we worked HARD to court independent developers, who cranked out great apps for the Palm platform. The good ones made money for themselves and really enhanced the Palm. Palm screwed up alot of other things, but you compare the wide variety of apps that are out there for the Palm OS devices, and anything you want has been written. Apple needs that kind of dev work behind it, or the best interface in the world will make the IPhone the next Edsel.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
Why the hell did they include a camera? What the hell is the huge business advantage of that?
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
It's not so much that apple products have prestige, it's that a product from "High Tech Computer Corp. Inc." has anti-prestige. It screams of some knockoff you might buy in a Hong Kong electronics mall.
And, although Taiwanese consumer electronics manufacturers have improved (notably by manufacturing American and Japanese designed devices under contract) that's not far from the truth.
There's a reason Apple puts that "Designed in California" blurb on their products. Although it does look a bit silly, I'm surprised other companies haven't caught on.
I wrote the "flaming bag of poo" comment earlier. Everything you said is spot on. One thing about the iPhone that I suspect will be there is a copy of the Preview app that is on the Mac. It's Apple's own PDF viewer, which is standard. It'll open most PDF documents out there and its fast. It also opens most photo files too. Since the iPhone is built on OS X, I can't imagine a version of Preview would be that hard to include with the phone.
As for Office Document Reader, who knows? it's certainly possible but I wouldn't mind an iPhone version of iWork (Pages, Keynote, etc).
http://www.intomobile.com/2007/06/05/htc-launches- apple-iphone-killer-htc-touch/
Be the first to comment XD
-- Boycott Shell
2005 called; they want their volatile flash memory back.
(And even before manufacturers started to use non-volatile flash memory, pretty much every PDA I've ever seen has always included a seperate backup battery in case the main one runs out (or, apart from anything else, to let you swap the main battery out without losing all your data)
(Also -- how many people who, if a PDA crashes whilst they're using it, then immediately stop using it and put it away without resetting it and turning it off?)
What's purple and commutes? An Abelian grape.
I ditched my htc sprint ppc 6700 because:
-too much latency overall
-poor phone quality, comfort, aesthetic
-heavy
-wanted to be able to search contacts and make calls without flipping keyboard out or using two hands.
-didn't like rebooting everyday to get the email flowing again.
-I looked like an ass while I was using it.
I bought a blackberry 8700 and I love it; it eliminated all of those issues. It's a bit bigger than a regular phone but the other benefits (email, calendar, big screen) are worth it.
For my needs the bb 8700 can't be beat.
I'm guessing the article is for business users also given the lack of any images of the device.
HTC makes perfect hardware, but the software it runs sucks big time. Yes, I talk about Windows Mobile. I am an owner of an HTC Universal, also known as Qtek 9000, which looks like a small laptop. The first problem I had with the device was that although the TFT screen is capable of displaying 640x480 resolution, Windows Mobile limit the output to 320x240, making the device unsuitable for the original reason I bought it (Slashdot, eh..., Internet surfing over 3G cellular networks, later also Python hacking and SSHing while on the road). Thanks to a little Russian hack, OzVga, I have an easy interface to switch between 640x480 and 320x240 anytime I want (ie never, as I only use 640x480). I really can't understand why MS stupidly sets 320x240 as th default resolution, without offering any interface to change it except through the registry. Windows Mobile crash very frequently, are very slow (even on Universal's 520MHz ARM CPU), have the most user-unfriendly and stupid interface I have ever seen since Spectrum's keyboard, and makes my life as a user very difficult. There is a project to port Linux on Universal but it is still in its infancy. I would really describe HTC's Universal as a device combining the perfect hardware with the most unusable software you could ever imagine. HTC really destroys its reputation by cooperating with MS. I am sure HTC could exponentially increase its sales by loading a non-MS OS, preferably open-source like Linux, on all its new PDAs. The best thing HTC can do is to open its hardware platform documentation and let Linux hackers create a Linux port on Universal or future similar device, then sponsor the effort and make Linux the default OS.
so why didn't you go to the HTC Universal? Full VGA (640x480)
seriously, there's so many non-arguments about the iPhone vs everything else based on individual aspects. the iPhone will kick ass because of the overall package. It will still have its shortcomings (i.e. resolution, no buttons (it's a feature!), etc.) but overall it will be a better package than most everything out there. There'll always be people who need something that the iPhone can't offer, and they will go with something else... or deal with it and remain looking hip with an iPhone that doesn't do entirely what they need it to.
My comments were directed at the moderation, not to you specifically. It is an interesting anecdote but, as I said, was not generally informative. Your posting here, however, is a good start.
I hate touch-sensative surfaces. While they're nice in theory and in some limited situations, they are nearly impossible to use without looking at them, there's no tactile feedback and they often promote mistouching.
Its the one thing (besides the built-in obsolescence) that would totally keep me away from an iPhone. I want my buttons.
In Paris, FR for whatever reason.
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
This was not a hardware problem. I had the phone replaced under warranty five times with the same result. I ran no third-party applications. Every person in my company hates their 700w. That is not an exaggeration. I am the IT guy here and handle all the cell phones. Literally everyone has told me how much they hate the phone. I now use a 700p (palm OS) and have zero problems. As you may have gathered, I will never use another Windows-driven PIM and will take every opportunity (like this one) to expound on their crappiness.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
I read that originally as, "HTC unveils a blue-screen mobile device..." :)
vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
Preview would be perfect, especially if it has the sort of zooming capabilities that the iPhone's version of Safari appears to have. Readers for iWork files would be excellent, although since my employer has to deal with Office docs that becomes somewhat of a necessity even though we use iWork internally. Regarding Keynote I would be interested in seeing how the iPhone could act as a presentation remote via Bluetooth, "Cover Flow" for my slides seems cool conceptually to me.
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
um his point was that the battery itself dies completely, which is also bogus but on a different count
Jayne: "These are stone killers, little man. They ain't cuddly like me."
98% of America's teens drink alcohol, smok
http://news.google.com/news?q=%22iphone+killer%22
-- Boycott Shell
I'm the IT guy for the little marketing company I work at and one of the owner's had a 700w, replaced a 650, that had all kinds of problems, replaced three times before I convinced her to insist on getting a new in box 700wx from Verizon. The 700wx has fixed the problem of not ringing on an incoming call and most of the other really annoying problems relating to email.
If you are with Verizon and having issues with the 700w I'd suggest badgering tech support to give you and your coworkers new, not refurbed, 700wx units.
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
I just leave my phone and cigs in one pocket, keys, lighters, and change in the other. Do you only have one pocket or something?
Also, holsters are retarded. Phone holsters are never the right solution.
You can't install your own JVM? I have been recently reading the HTC boards, and was shocked by peoples unhappiness with the most recent round of firmware upgrades, including an undocumented remapping of the keyboard...yikes.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
zunePhone!
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I have my HTC Tytn next to me and it's the most irritating phone I've ever had. I'd very much doubt that WM6 somehow fixes in one generation what they couldn't fix in the other 5.
http://www.tudumo.com - todo list with tags
By the looks of this, their phone isn't the only attempt at a rip-off, the commercial is nearly identical to Apple's "brand vision". It's so similar it's nearly embarrassing to watch. I wonder if these airing would actually help Apple..
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
The real question is why try to copy the iPhone. If I remember the keynote on the iPhone, Steve Jobs put some weight on the fact that Apple had put in for patents on numerous features of the iPhone, and given Apple's previous track record with industrial design (does the phrase "look and feel" sound familiar), it's more likely Apple will or will try to squash this before it can get to market....
I've refrained from profanity, racial/ethnic epitaphs and am 5'11" - how can I be ranked as troll?
I understand your fustration and I have also made future purchase decisions on a single experience. But I would also like to say that I have a HTC Apache (branded via sprint as PPC 6700) and I absolutely LOVE the thing
In general I dont insure things like phones (or even laptops) but right now these things can keep thier value well enough to be worth insuring. If you had the insurance you would have gotten a new device immediately. Actually, after rereading your post I dont believe you werent able to get the device replaced/repaired. After three weeks you should have both a manufacturer and store warranty available to you.
Pocket IE, the contacts+google maps, ability to develop arbitrary custom applications with a copy of Visual Studio.NET, MythTV remote.
Also, the iPhone is going to be GSM is the United States, which is silly because Sprint and Verizon's CDMA data networks are exponentially faster. On my Qualcomm PPC 6700, I can run IRC (group chat), IM (individual chat), browse the web, and SSH (secure shell), and terminal services all at the same time. Or if I want, I can connect my phone to my laptop, and instantiate arbitrary network traffic that way.
It has a WiFi client in it, but I hardly use it because the EVDO network performs my network intensive tasks quite acceptably :-). You'd be hard pressed to perform all of these tasks simultaneously on a GSM network and find the performance acceptable. For this reason alone myself and many others will not be acquiring
an iPhone:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jh tml?articleID=196900200
I'm going to stick with Windows Mobile, and check out OpenMoko when it is available (although it is GSM based also, so I still cant imagine it completely replacing my Windows Mobile devices).
QFT!
I have an 8525 as well, and am pretty happy with it, especially with the data plan.
That said, I'd love to have a bit more resolution than 320x240. 320x480 sounds damn nice.
(As AT&T users, we at least can trade up though, I hope!)
I'm an Apple fanboi, but I did notice that this phone has:
- triple band, amongst which GSM
- allows for the use of a stylus
- allows you install programs (but as Uncle Steve says: an application running fine on a computer doesn't have the interface to run on a tiny screen).
Now I'm a business user, but this phone isn't going to be mine. It will be the iPhone, as I can expect Apple to have the integration with the computer nailed. I might be tempted by the OpenMoko, with its higher resolution screen (surfing). Being fully open, it guarantees me that I can have the software I need )(if necessary adapted) to do what I need to do with it. And I even like its looks. The main drawback of the OpenMoko phone may be its limited memory. Keep an eye on this phone.
Bert
Who wonders whether they knew they shouldn't call it an iPhone killer, because like iPod killers, your product is doomed if labeled as such.
The way I'd differentiate a Smartphone from a 'normal' phones is that I can load (or it comes with) apps that are in advance of those offered by a regular phone.
My last SE phone had a nice little opera browser that ran over Java and a basic IMAP client. Not very exciting, but nice enough. Upgraded to an HTC TyTn and I get Outlook (which whilst you may bitch, it actually useful) and could install stuff like VPN clients, TomTom, Monkey Island etc.
I think the hardware of the iPhone is lovely from a UI and visual point of view, but this first version is NOT a smartphone.
For a start I can't install my own apps on it yet (so please release that dev kit and open it up) - the single reason to get a smartphone is that you can load up interesting stuff you can't get on a regular phone.
2nd bitch is the lack of 3G. Now I've no interest in making video calls, but the lack of a decent net connection on the phone cripples so many of the apps you may want to run on it. I cannot believe the decision to drop a decent data connection was a desired one (loads of small, cheap, battery frugal phones can) so it bemuses me as to why it's missing. Phone clearly hasn't been rushed to market, the reference designs exist, carrier would be more than happy to bill you for the data.. I now realize I haven't got a point to finish of on, I genuinely cannot think of a reason 3G is missing.. (apart from allowing Apple to charge me for a second phone in 6 months, but even I have trouble being that cynical)... maybe it will be supported after all - allow us all to bitch about the obvious omision on this pricey handset, then announce it does feature it and crush majority of opposition on the eve of the launch...
Hi, just a friendly reply to your complaints. Yours are perfectly valid, but I would like to comment.
I have no trouble dialing with my thumb.
The only browser that I've found that even works in a somewhat acceptable fashion is Pocket IE. Also, Google Moble will rewrite pages for you to look really nice in the browser. Also, I rarely (its probably been months now) have to soft reset the device.
Orientation has always worked fine for me. Also, you can configure when the onscreen keyboard pops up (I turned it on but found I could work more efficiently with it on.
I just put everything on the SD card. That way I can back it up seperately from the device and move it from device to device quickly. Seems saner than leaving data on the device.
Also, you're on Cingular's GSM network. Switch to Sprint or Verizon and you'll see quite a boost in data speeds.
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technology/HTC_Touch.j pg
Plain and simple.
I've been using GSM phones in the U.S. since 1999. My wife even longer. If you have no idea what you're talking about, stop talking.
It was a question you refused to answer. I only know what I read [the link you provided, thanks again]:
I seriously doubt anything from M$ has multi frequency capability needed to bridge US and EU networks. I could be wrong, due to advances in digital radio, but I doubt it and but I'm sure your and your wife's phones from 1999 are US only.
I also have my doubts you and your wife have ever left the US, if you even have a wife. You are a troll.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Yes - that sounds like a great warning. Except for the fact that there were plenty of insightful comments that were cricitcal of the iPhone that weren't modded down - and your tripe was boring, redundant, pedantic, and otherwise wholly deserving of the rating it got. But - hey - don't let that last-word-itis stop you. Tell the world! Tell them the unjustness of your slight! We need to know this - because it's important!
You're a manager - aren't you? You smell like one.
Whoa, lighten up. Did you catch your wife in fucking another man (your boss, I assume) in your kitchen today? You're bringing the rest of us down.
Thanks for being friendly.
The big thumbs is my fault and could be helped by changes in the software design.
IE works fine but I like the features of Minimo, especially tabbed browsing.
Orientation problem is worse when more applications are active in memory but that is a problem related to the OS' task scheduling and such I suspect. Also, Midlet applications don't support the slide-out keyboard at all as far as I can tell and this issue is more a problem on an app by app basis than universally.
Again, at $400 new I would have like more memory than was installed. I work alright with the SD card but 1G of built-in memory and that would have been one less accessory to buy.
Data speeds are fine for me, I mostly check emails. I use web sporadically so slow is ok for me on that front.
Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree. -Martin Luther
I didn't post that link. It was another user. I recommend you Google for the phrase "tri-band GSM" or "quad band GSM" to fill in the gaps in your knowledge. Also, I didn't mention Microsoft. I'm not sure why you did. I don't know if any of the Windows Mobile smartphones offer tri- or quad-band GSM, but I would be surprised if at least one didn't.
I have used my current phone, a tri-band GSM/UMTS SonyEricsson M600i in the United States, Canada, England, France, Belgium, Japan (UMTS mode only), China, and Singapore. Before this, I used my GSM Ericsson T68mc in the United States, Austria, France, the Czech Republic, and Germany.
You really are more clueless than you know. Try to read and research before you call someone else a troll. Both T-Mobile and Cingular/AT&T support GSM phones in the United States with worldwide roaming. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of companies that sell phones in the United States that work around the world.
You sound like someone who bought his phone on a ten-year contract at the Sprint store at some suburban mall and believes everything the salesman told him.
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
No iTunes. Less space than an iPod. Lame.
"I seriously doubt anything from M$ has multi frequency capability needed to bridge US and EU networks. I could be wrong, due to advances in digital radio, but I doubt it and but I'm sure your and your wife's phones from 1999 are US only."
doubt the phone from 99 is still functional period, but it may have worked
there are 4 gsm bands, any tri-band or quadband phone will work on either continent. the wing is of course a quadband phone.
What does BSOD mean
Blue Screen of Death.
Although, I'm not sure what it looks like on this device.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
While I agree with you that they simply just dont get it, I can understand multiple buttons. eg: Power on & power off as separate buttons (which has been debated here before) Power button & back/cancel button If they use one of those buttons as a replacement for Enter, then they are freaking idiots and deserve to be fired.
From the comments you have made so far, you have not made yourself appear knowledgeable on the subject matter. The HTC Touch is a tri-band phone, operating at 900MHz, 1800MHz and 1900MHz. 1800MHz is common to Europe and the USA, and so this phone will certainly "bridge the US and EU networks".
Further more... the operating system a phone runs has very little to do with what bands of frequencies its radio operates at. By inferring it does, you are certainly not helping your case in showing even the slightest amount of aptitude for the subject at hand. Suggesting that because it is a Microsoft-powered smart phone that it could not operate in the USA and Europe is trollish at best.
I would suggest that before you wonder something out loud about this again you should at least perform even a minor amount of research.
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
It's called the crack(black)berry. That is a business phone. Second choice treo. Status,function,snobbery all in one.
I'm sorry, I'm to tired to be witty at the moment so this message will have to do.
What is the point of installing another VM when none of them will add more JSR support on HTC hardware ? I mean, the VM manufacturers also does not have acces to the HTC native API (cf. NDA & big bucks required from HTC to push it to you). And they don't want to pay for this to HTC, because the price is way too prohibitive.
And even the phoneME (The ReferenceImeplementation VM for Java ME under GPL) is of no use, for the same reason: API is under lock !
With WM5 HTC phones, the situation for camera support has improved because WM5 got a unified API. But it does not apply to pre-WM5 phone (read phones where HTC does not have an upgrade program to WM5). The situation for the other API (JSR) is still the same !
HTC really need to wake up. And potential customer really need to be aware of this serious hidden limitation.
Plain and simple, you are a dumbass. You don't know what you're yammering on about. There have been GSM phones that work in both America and Europe for at least a decade, possibly longer. Do us all a favor and shut up because you're the troll.
World's tallest building rises in the desert
I keep on seeing and hearing that the new batteries do not have the memory problem. But yet complaints about batteries stop taking a full charge still happen. And my battery drain method keeps working. So until it stops working I am going to keep on doing it.
And on what count is a lipo dying from overdischarge bogus? I'll grant you that the charge and cutoff logic is usually integrated in the battery pack, but only if you have separate batteries for it (like cellphones do). One of the problems with a certain generation of ipod was that the battery died after one year. How is that for faulty charging/low voltage protection? The hypothetical situation as I described is pretty stupid, but not that far in pi in the sky land.
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
From the photo and the article someone linked to, it appears this is just another generation of Windows mobile smart phone. The photo shows the today screen which happens to have a today-applet that has big buttons that one can push with their fingers. Handy, yes, revolutionary, no. Head to head with iPhone? No.
:P
:(
I have what I'm told is also made by HTC, the UtStarCom 6700 (a.k.a. the Audiovox 6700, I think). $79 from Telus on a 3 year contract
It's a nice PDA, and a half decent phone as well. Gotta use the touch screen to dial the phone, which is slightly awkward; big buttons, which is nice, but no tactile feedback, which isn't perfect in all circumstances. Nice slide-out keyboard for quick messages (although I prefer tapping with FITALY). The apps that are designed well for the unit, work really well, like TomTom Navigator (big buttons, intuitive operation). The more traditional things, require delicate tapping. It's hard to believe WM6 overcomes most of these issues with accurate tapping, etc.. (TomTom pops up a full screen keyboard when it needs, text, does on the fly matching, etc., nice stuff.)
I'm impressed with the phone, bluetooth, wifi, nice PDA, probably one of the better phones/speakerphones I've used. Certainly not up for the droppings my old phones got, but I'll treat it like a PDA, and not a phone (and this one won't end up in the ocean, like my Razr
Anyhow, I saw HTC's next generation in between my 6700 and this announced model, and it's even nicer than mine; thinner, feels like magnetic jump when you slide open the keyboard, nice feel (but $200 + 3 year contract). I'm sure this even newer one is even nicer. HTC makes nice stuff. But it's no iPhone killer.
I almost worry about the lack of tactile buttons. Windows Mobile 5 is designed around certain buttons; a four way joystick, start/ok buttons, and left and right menu buttons (and talk/hangup buttons). They are quite handy for their purposes; you can do most anything you need to do on the phone, short of entering text, with just the buttons, which is handy in non-touchscreen moments. I worry that the new model might be a slight step back in that regard.
Anyhow, I'm sure it's a kick ass product, and probably a fraction of the price of the iPhone. But it's not the same thing. Windows Mobile, or people who augment it, are nowhere near on the verge of a UI revolution on the scale that Apple is capable of executing.
--
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Most of the MS Smartphones out there are based on Quad band GSM. They'll work anywhere with a GSM service. In the last 3 weeks I've used mine in Taiwan, Hong Kong, China, England, Denmark and Sweden.
Actually, it only needs to be hard rebooted about once a week.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen