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Privacy Group Gives Google Lowest Possible Grade

The Washington Post is reporting on a finding by London-based group Privacy International. In a new report, they find that Google has some of the worst privacy-protection practices anywhere on the web, giving them the lowest possible grade. "While a number of other Internet companies have troubling policies, none comes as close to Google to 'achieving status as an endemic threat to privacy,' Privacy International said in an explanation of its findings. In a statement from one of its lawyers, Google said it aggressively protects its users' privacy and stands behind its track record. In its most conspicuous defense of user privacy, Google last year successfully fought a U.S. Justice Department subpoena demanding to review millions of search requests."

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  1. Links for nerds on stories that matter by echucker · · Score: 5, Informative
    The Privacy International article - The Privacy International article

    Their report (interim rankings only)

    Final rankings won't be available until September. Wonder what they'll be dicking around for three months for....

    1. Re:Links for nerds on stories that matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      according to a watchdog group seeking to intensify the recent focus on how the online search leader handles personal information about its users. Seems to me that the goal of the study was to make a single company look bad and not to scientifically evaluate the privacy and then interpret the results.
    2. Re:Links for nerds on stories that matter by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, if you look at the preliminary report, they seem to have done a pretty good job. For example, Google does not consider IP address as personal information. This is OK if you are conneccting from a local coffee shop, but sucks if you have a static IP, or even do DHCP over a small range of addresses. It also points out that they don't always consider privacy implications before releasing information such as Street-level view. With the amount of data that Google gathers, analyzes, utilizes and releases (both publicly and its corporate partners), these kind of actions are a bit disturbing.

      I'm not trying to say this report is perfect, or that there is enough information provided to evaluate it independently. However, seeing a conspiracy targeted at Google because a group got upset about some of their practices, and decided to do a study (which included a lot more companies than just Google), is a bit premature.

      --
      Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
    3. Re:Links for nerds on stories that matter by Macthorpe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Google seem to be taking it seriously enough to accuse Privacy International of being in bed with Microsoft, which is a laughable accusation.

      Privacy International responded via an open letter here.

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    4. Re:Links for nerds on stories that matter by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Google seem to be taking it seriously enough to accuse Privacy International of being in bed with Microsoft, which is a laughable accusation.

      Well.... if anyone would have the information to prove this link, Google would! But what does that say about Google's privacy practices?
      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    5. Re:Links for nerds on stories that matter by fuego451 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, there is one, albeit small, link to Microsoft. From the "About Privacy International" page, UK advisory board:

      Caspar Bowde ~ Privacy specialist, Microsoft, EMEA UK
    6. Re:Links for nerds on stories that matter by The+Famous+Brett+Wat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Google does not consider IP address as personal information.

      And yet Gmail is the only public webmail service I know that does not include the IP address of the browser (HTTP client) in the mail header fields.

      --
      proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
    7. Re:Links for nerds on stories that matter by The+Famous+Brett+Wat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My point was that they don't reveal your IP address to third parties. There seems to be a bit of clouded thinking on this issue. Privacy is not about how much the company knows, but how much it keeps secret. I share information with Google, and they promise to keep it a secret. So long as they do that, they have upheld their end of the bargain. I'm in control of how much information I decide to give to Google, but I have to trust them not to share it with others. Most webmail services reveal the HTTP client IP to the recipient as a matter of course, using either a "Received:" trace field or the informal "X-Originating-IP:". Google keeps this a secret. They seem to understand the concept of nondisclosure quite well, and have more respect for privacy than I've seen in any other company of its type.

      --
      proof, n. A demonstration that a conclusion is implied by certain premises and axioms.
  2. A suggestion... by 313373_bot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google last year successfully fought a U.S. Justice Department subpoena demanding to review millions of search requests. Very nice, but how long until either Google loses some legal fight, or it simply decides not to fight?

    One solution to the privacy problem, in my oppinion, would be granting users, besides the ability of not surrendering more information than necessary for a given transaction, some effective way of deleting their personal data once done with Google, Yahoo, Amazon or whoever else.
    --
    ^[:q!
    1. Re:A suggestion... by TheGreatHegemon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Very nice, but how long until either Google loses some legal fight, or it simply decides not to fight? If Google loses the legal fight to defend their data from government violations, then you should be looking at your government, not Google for the privacy violation.
  3. Pot calls kettle black. by mooreBS · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why are these people attacking Google. Privacy and anonymity are rapidly eroding in the UK. Hello! You've got bigger privacy problems than Google if you're living there.

    1. Re:Pot calls kettle black. by Stormx2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The whole "UK is a big brother society" thing is overdone. 99% of cameras are just local shops looking out for their business. Remember that the UK is densely populated and natural selection has ground the a halt; council estates breed criminals. Sure, there are a lot of cameras, but it isn't some government conspiracy that people make it out to be.

    2. Re:Pot calls kettle black. by bky1701 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The whole "Google is big brother" thing is overdone. 99% of logging is just statistical. Remember that google is mainly an ad firm and they rely on statistics to do their job. Sure, there are a lot of logging, but it isn't some conspiracy that people make it out to be.

    3. Re:Pot calls kettle black. by suv4x4 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The whole "Google is big brother" thing is overdone. 99% of logging is just statistical.

      Very funny. Statistical would imply they can't tie info back to you. When your mail, history, ip, browsing and search habits are all recorded in your exact account, it's not statistical. It's a disaster.

      Google can pull all this crap out since they're so trusted by the large masses. Companies are pushed to behaving good by customers not trusting them. Google just didn't get enough of that throughout the years, and here's the result.

      Funnier even, they seem to use their "goodness" as an argument here as well: the fact they fight back in court to protect that data isn't helpful. What would be helpful is that data is never collected in a way it can be abused, if god knows what happens (cracked server, loss in court, new law, insider leaking info etc etc)

    4. Re:Pot calls kettle black. by k1e0x · · Score: 5, Informative

      No its not a government conspiracy, they really ARE watching you. The average brit is photographed 200 to 400 times per day.

      Hea, waat the hell, why not just pull random people over for.. no reason at all.. and take fingerprints. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6170070.stm Alread on it in the UK, the worlds leading police state.

      Sound Orweallian..? guess what, it *looks* that way too. Check out the "it's for your 'safty'" ads. http://www.infowars.net/articles/april2006/170406w atching.htm

      --
      Bringing liberty to the masses. - http://freetalklive.com/
  4. For the Tin Foil Hat Brigade (myself included) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Firefox and the Customize Google extension make a good team: http://www.customizegoogle.com/

    Features:

            * Remove click tracking
            * Anonymize your Google userid
            * Block Google Analytics cookies

            * Secure Gmail and Google Calendar, switch to https
            * Remove ads

    1. Re:For the Tin Foil Hat Brigade (myself included) by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, I'm the same way. When I have girls over at my place, *all* they have to do is ask about the "no sound/video recording" option, and I won't keep their data. They just never request that feature.

  5. The Future of Google: Total Surveillance by skrew · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem is they keep all your search results, with tracking cookie. Google is in bed with the CIA: http://www.disgrunt.com/blog/2006/10/27/former-int elligence-agent-says-google-in-bed-with-cia/ Have any of you guys seen the new gmail? I won't use it...it has a built in calendar, word processor, and of course, permanent email storage, converge this with permanent tracking cookies, logs of all search requests from your IP, and of course google earth/maps (will go live eventually as the technology changes) and you have the recipie for total uncontrolled surveillance.

    --
    Learn to know, the dark side of the force, and you will achieve a power greater than any Jedi...the power to save your w
    1. Re:The Future of Google: Total Surveillance by Deekin_Scalesinger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why mod this down? I rarely put on the tinfoil hat, but they can have an awful lot of data for people who choose to use many/all of their services. It is an aggregate of many people's lives. Not saying that they are doing it, but the guy deserves more than a -1 for his thoughts.

      --
      "As the intrepid kobold companion continues his journey, he begins to wonder... if priests raises dead, why anybody die?
  6. You can't by brunes69 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You have two choices. in one corner, you have a nice, stable, secure ASP that hosts your email / calender/ etc. They have redundant filesystems and/or make regular backups.

    Your other choice is being able to delete your profile with a click.

    People who think that the idea of being able to delete your profile is in any way simple or trivial are deluding themselves. Google themselves have said that because of the way GFS works they can *NEVER* know when a piece of data flagged for deletion is actually no longer recoverable. That fault tolerance and redundancy is built into the design.

    It is the same thing at Yahoo and MSN. All these guys have redundant systems with backups. It would take days worth of man hours to delete a persons profile. Hard thing to demand from a free service.

    If you don't want Google holding your data, no one is putting a bullet to your head. You don't need to have cookies enabled or anything else to use their search engine. Frankly I trust them with my email more than my ISP.

    1. Re:You can't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Deleting accounts created on systems has always been a default consideration.

      As proper deletion should have been

      Not if the filesystem support and account management code had been properly written.

      You obviously have no clue how a filesystem stack works. Data is rarely deleted per se on *any* filesystem, simply unlinked and possibly flagged for later overwriting. Why do you think projets like this exist?

      Even if a file (if an email or google doc is even stored in what one would *call* a file) did get deleted, the indexing that is done would make at least pieces parts recoverable until their staleness is discovered, which could be a while.

      Even then, a good forensic analyist could probably recover something that had been allegedly deleted.

      Overwriting data to securely erase it is expensive on a desktop and approaching impossible on a busy server. This is why people who don't wear tinfoil hats will use Boot'n'Nuke or somesuch before selling a hard drive on eBay. You can't just delete something (even on your own computer, mind you) and expect it to be gone. That's not the way filesystems work.

      --------
      Check your facts at the door; be sure to pay a quarter!

  7. Re:Toppling the Top Guy by mrjb · · Score: 4, Funny

    If they were the 2nd biggest coffee shop chain in the world, the scorn would not exist. I'm from the Netherlands. No starbucks at all to be found here- I guess they felt they couldn't compete with the Fine Products sold in coffee shops here :)

    --
    Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
  8. Google? Hardly... by StikyPad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While a number of other Internet companies have troubling policies, none comes as close to Google to 'achieving status as an endemic threat to privacy,'

    They've obviously never heard of LexisNexis or Accurint. Unless they consider information on what web page you visited to be more infringing than, say, your full financial history, residence, court records, marriage licenses, property deeds, loans, phone numbers (including unlisted), etc., etc. Of course, that's all "public information."

  9. There is a lot Google is by pcause · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look at the entire scope of what Google does and you see that they want to know everything about you, and not some anonymous information. EMail is something you alomost always log in to. Many people set the login to remember them. Makes it easier to check you email, but once you are logged in your search queries are not anonymous. That is the reason Google has so many other things to try tog et you logged in and to stay logged in. For example, the have IM so that you've leave it running and yourself logged in.

    However, most commercial activity and interesting behaviors, the ones worth money to advertisers and others, don't happen at the search screen. This is why Google has toolbar and desktop. They want to watch all of the sites you visit and what you do on the sites. Using this data they build a detailed behavioral profile of you. But they also have way more information then your commercial behaviors. They know about a wide variety of sites and can determine if you look at sites about health issues, or other sensitive and personal behaviors.

    Google is a HUGE threat to your privacy. One could reasonably say that if you use many Google services and tools you have already given them such a detailed picture about you your privacy is essentially gone. And remember, they keep a 2 year rolling picture of the details about you. But they can also keep the "important" items they discover and toss the detail.

    And, to those who say "Remember that Google went to Court to prevent the Government from getting records", remember what Google said. They said they were doing this NOT to protect your privacy, but to protect their trade secrets. That means so that no one can found out the real details about what they track and know about you.

    Don't believe the "Do NO Evil" stuff. It is just clever marketing. They are a big company, just like all the rest and in many ways worse. Remember that they say that they want to index all of the World's information. That includes the very intimate and personal details about you!

    Many viewed Google as the anti-Microsoft. Microsoft just dominated a market. Is is really debatable whether Microsoft's dominance actually cost consumers financially, but if they did, it was just money. There is no question that Google threatens at least our privac and that is just the first of our basic rights that their behavior and business interests threaten to erode.

  10. Re:Abuse of "anonymity" by finkployd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know, you could have avoided a lot of trouble if you had published your Russian businessman criticizing webpage anonymously...

    Finkployd