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RIAA Uses Local Cops In Oregon Raid
newtley writes "Fake cops employed by the RIAA started acting like real police officers quite a while ago — one of the earliest examples unfolded in Los Angeles in 2004. From a distance, the bust, 'looked like classic LAPD, DEA or FBI work, right down to the black "raid" vests the unit members wore,' said the LA Weekly. That their yellow stenciled lettering read 'RIAA' instead of something from an official law-enforcement agency, 'was lost on 55-year-old parking-lot attendant Ceasar Borrayo.' But it's also SOP for the RIAA to wield genuine officers paid for entirely from citizen taxes as copyright cops. Police were used in an RIAA-inspired raid at two flea markets in Beaverton, Oregon. 'Sgt. Paul Wandell, Beaverton police spokesman, said officers seized more than 50,000 items worth about $758,000,' says The Oregonian. But this is merely the tiny tip of an iceberg of absolutely staggering dimensions, an example of the extent coming in a GrayZone report slugged RIAA Anti-Piracy Seizure Information."
Last I remember, impersonating law enforcement was illegal.
Is it too optimistic to hope they'll get busted for it someday?
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
Damn spics. Can't even trust them to keep their own name !
As a result, eight suspects were arrested and charged. Seized in total as a result of the enforcement actions were a total of 20,800 counterfeit CD-Rs, 71,428 counterfeit movie DVDs
The enforcement resulted in one arrest and the seizure of 13,000 counterfeit / pirated CD-Rs and 6,505 counterfeit movie DVDs. An additional search on 8th Avenue resulted in five additional arrests and the seizure of 33,600 counterfeit CD-Rs and 19,104 counterfeit movie DVDs.
Yup, it's still Fair Use. I mean everybody's been paid already right? Why should I have to spend more then I want to get something. I should only have to pay what I want to pay right? It doesn't matter how much they spent to make it right? Since they're an evil movie studio.
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
This is as it should be. Massive copyright violations like this are illegal, immoral, and unethical. Good job cops!
It's criminals like this who provide justifications for DRM and other annoyance. Everyone who objects to DRM and copy protection should be applauding the cops for investigating the swap meets, and the RIAA for merely informing the local police of the copyright violators, rather than engaging in their own strong-arm tactics.
That being said, it's a bit disconcerting to see them concerned with "who owns reproduction equipment like this". I really don't think that should be a concern of anyone... owning equipment shouldn't be a crime, even if it is professional-quality duplicators.
Why SHOULDN'T police officers be involved in a criminal copyright infringement raid? Selling bootleg CDs is WAY illegal.
Funny I thought these were people who weren't acting as official policeman making themselves look like they were acting as official policeman to break into homes and places of work to seize their goods.
If these people are breaking the law, take them to court or call the police who will then act in an official capacity. Do not impersonate policeman acting in an official capacity, when the people are clearly not (hence the RIAA logos).
Using openSUSE instead of Windows since 9th of October, 2007 and liking it.
"Sgt. Paul Wandell, Beaverton police spokesman, said officers seized more than 50,000 items worth about $758,000"
:)
In other words, $15 per item for knock off and counterfeit items, including CDs and DVDs with allegedly unauthorized copyrighted material... Bull. I say alleged because I'm guessing that there were plenty of hip hop mixtapes that are technically illegal but in reality supported by the marketing arms of various record companies, stuff that would never sell for more than a few bucks each. Or maybe illegally imported (but not illegal to own or sell in, say, China) DVDs... Let's face it, the movie studios have certainly perverted justice and the law in order to sell their stuff for $20 a disc in Wal-Mart, so I'm not crying a river for them. It's certainly not a price anyone would pay in a real free market.
Then there's purses, handbags, stereo equipment, all knock-offs... The assumption behind that $758,000 figure is that people would pay so many thousands of dollars for a Gucci bag, whatever that is, and selling a $20 knock off will hurt sales on behalf of Gucci.
Let's revise the statement above.... 50,000 items of merchandise at a value of, say $150,000 in market value might be more realistic. I can't see anyone sticking their neck out to sell that many items at a flea market for less than that.
I hope the RIAA realizes one day these are much better tactics than threatening people with lawsuits for thousands of dollars because they (maybe) uploaded some mp3s. It is so unbalanced. Somebody has thousands of cds they are selling on the street and all they do is take them but grandma has to deal with a lawsuit probably because some isp logged the wrong ip address.
"We were surprised about the size and sophistication," Marcus Cohen (anti-piracy counsel for the Recording Industry Association of America) said, standing in a steady drizzle Saturday afternoon at the chain-link fence that surrounds M&M. "It's something we are going to be paying very close attention to, finding who has a replication machine that shouldn't."
Wait.... There are people how have replication machines that shouldn't? Is there a law against this? Only thy member of thouest recording industries shalt have duplicator machines?
Go jump in a lake, Mr. Cohen. Same goes to the rest of the RIAA.
You seem to be grossly misinformed. While copyright infringement done without the intent to make a profit is indeed a civil matter, copyright infringement for the purpose of making a profit is very much illegal.
Speaking as someone who thinks the DMCA is insane, despises the way the RIAA treats its artists and then calls itself the defender of musicians everywhere, thinks that copyright needs reasonable term limits, has the current AACS key in his MSN Messenger tag-line, and checks Beckerman's blog regularly in the hope of good news, I support this action.
You have tried to support your argument with faulty reasoning! Go directly to jail; do not pass Go, do not collect $200!
I was moreover commenting on the first segment. This one: http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/music-industry-p uts-troops-in-the-streets/2111/
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
On the first hand we have people paid to basically impersonate police which most can agree is pretty bad, if not illegal (IMHO).
In the second case we have police raiding a flea market which was selling counterfeit goods, which I think most of you should realize is perfectly acceptable. If some jerk off is making money of copyright infringement, I hope they're taken to the ringer. At the -very- least their goods should be confiscated.
Bye!
So it's wrong for the police to bust people who are counterfeiting AND selling CD's for a profit? That's not exactly filesharing. So should counterfeiting anything be legal? Or does this only apply to the RIAA?
This is exactly what they SHOULD be doing; getting the the people that rip off the Artist's FOR A PROFIT.
They should focus more on operations like this and less on filesharers.
Regardless of your attitude towards people who download copies of music without the copyright holders permission, I don't know of too many people here who would argue that its OK to SELL copies of music without the copyright holders permission.
This is where the RIAA should be focusing their time.
Selling pirated CDs and DVDs for personal profit is illegal and should be. I have no problem with the police assisting in taking out large distributors of this illegal media. The RIAA has no business pretending to be police. They are not civil servents and will not be acting in the best interest of the general public. At least the police are supposed to be working for the greater good.
Aside from the negative effects this could have on legal retailers, distributors, and artists, consumers could easily be fooled into thinking these items were legitimate copies. Some people do actually watch those extra features.
All that being said, I still think the RIAA is despicable and their attack on online media distribution is patently absurd and abusive. They need to work with the consumers instead of against them and realize that their model is outdated and irrelevant in the modern world.
Forecast for tomorrow: A few sprinklings of genius with a chance of DOOM!
It would be very interesting to see them try that in Colorado. Can you say "Make My Day Law"?
rj
"A tip-off on fake CDs is that they will have 20 to 24 tracks each, instead of 12 or 14," says Marcus Cohen anti-piracy counsel for the Recording Industry Association of America.
Yes, sir, and beware of one-pound cans of coffee that contain sixteen ounces instead of thirteen, sleazy operators that will sell you a four by four by eight foot "cord" of wood, and call the cops if your bag of a dozen bagels turns out to contain thirteen.
Short measure, your infallible sign of genuine U. S. music industry product.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
1. Their math doesn't add up.
and
B. Are they saying that the counterfeit stuff is "worth" that much? I figure they'd see it as quite worthless.
Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
Wait, let me get this right. People are outraged that the RIAA used the local police department to seize unauthorized and unlicensed duplicates of their copyrighted works which were being sold for profit?
That's an actual felony in the United States, not the civil matter that small-scale P2P usage is.
Of course the police would be involved. I'm only surprised it was the local cops, not the U.S. Marshall's office or some similar Agency.
I've heard of the cops raiding flea markets to bust people selling counterfeit clothes (think fake Tommy Hilfiger stuff - non-Tommy stuff with the Tommy logo on it). In my book, selling knockoffs, bootlegs, etc, as the real thing is Piracy. Downloading an MP3? Not piracy. Piracy involves money. Copyright infringement can be piracy if you sell it.
Copyright infringement can also involve fair use, depending on who you ask, LOL.
Just my two cents worth.
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
IANAL, but in my opinion, piracy and selling fake copies for a profit are two entirely different crimes and should be treated as such. So, normally, I'm the first to jump on the back of the "let's lynch some record-execs" bandwagon, but I can't really say I'm too bothered by these people's arrests. I think it's one thing to download/burn a copy of a CD, and quite another to charge others for it.
The morality and legality of filesharing is a blurry line, but I'm fairly certain most of us can agree which side this belongs on. (Though I'm not too sure of how I feel about their usage of law enforcement. I mean, if they could just find these copiers themselves and tell the cops, rather than a sort of raid... ah, I don't know.)
If it's not real cops and they don't have real warrants wouldn't shooting up their ass come under reasonable force for self-defence?
It probably depends upon the situation, where the raid takes place (which state), when the raid takes place (middle of the night as opposed to broad daylight), whether the raid was announced (even if only five minutes prior to arriving), and finally whether or not there are *real* law enforcement officers accompanying the rent-a-cops. If it was just the rent-a-cops and they arrived unannounced during the night and without law enforcement vehicles in a rural part of Tennessee, for example, then they would probably be picking buckshot out of their asses while they waited real police officers to show up. Some of the states in the American south east and mid west have shoot first and ask questions later laws for trespassers in the middle of the night dating back to the days of horse thieves and cattle rustlers. I would venture to guess that most rent-a-cops would probably retreat if meet with armed resistance (they are not going to risk getting shot for a couple of bucks of overtime pay at their rent-a-cop night job, especially since it may not be covered by their regular health insurance).
I'm just going to add to the chorus here:
Selling counterfeit goods in a mass market is a real felony violation called infringement for personal gain. It carried a jail sentence decades before the DMCA ruined copyright law. This is exactly the kind of crime that needs to be busted up by the cops, and I don't care that the RIAA was the one who tipped them off.
Way to go RIAA. Keep doing your job to protect your members' interests.
The rent-a-cop raids are atrocious, but they have nothing to do with a sensible raid seizing "50,000 items worth about $758,000." That kind of infringement is wrong. I hope the people who ran the market enjoy their cell.
--
Toro
Yes! Every single policeman should be involved in nothing but busting drug dealers and burglars. Other crime should get a free ride. Oh, if only a man with your wisdom could get elected into the mayor's office!
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
Yes, yes Bad Guys doing bad things are arrested, so what could be wrong with that?
The outrage could be inspired by a couple of reasons:
1. the privatization of law enforcement. There is an entire private structure dedicated to law enforcement in the U.S. (private prisons, arbitration, lawyers) This is a case where the line between private and public has blurred.
2. Outrageous excess. A couple of mega-corporations make enough money to hire their own law enforcement. I haven't even discussed their history of anti-trust, suspiciously monopolistic control of the distribution of entertainment, and a variety of other criminal acts already prosecuted.
3. Right of First Sale? Right of non-infringing use? These are very important legal concepts that the media conglomerates want to sweep away. They discourage these uses by prosecuting anyone from a Grandmother to some idiots selling counterfeits.
It's really very easy when you cast every issue in such black-and-white terms. You know exactly who the bad guy is. That must be comforting but it's misguided faith in an organization that history shows harm everyone.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
The counterfeit $20 bill in your wallet is worthless - but try to pass it off at face value or sell the print run to an undercover cop at a discount and you will be doing hard time.
Cops, like judges and juries, do not "Think Geek."
How do you know that it's not Creative Commons or public domain material? One of these cases was tipped off by an angry girlfriend.
Because the vast majority of commercial music that can be reasonably counterfeited is not CC or PD. I said "reasonable to presume", not "certain".
Democracies are supposed to work that way.
Yes, so then make your argument "This shouldn't be illegal", not "This isn't illegal, so the police shouldn't be arresting people for it...oh wait, it is, but it shouldn't be."
In my book, using violence or threat of violence to take control over a ship you do not own, is piracy. Selling counterfeit CDs? Not piracy. Piracy involves vessels moving on the surface of a large body of water, and weapons. Selling counterfeit CDs can be piracy if you stole them from a ship.
Yeah, just like piracy can be legal, if you have a letter of marque.
No, he's complaining about the assumed retail value of the wares. They very well could be overstating things and assigning a value to some of this stuff that it could never fetch in a genuine retail establishment.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Isn't the kind of situation where the RIAA send their own militia to "assist" in raids like these a dangerous conflict of interest? If there are enough of these goose-stepping RIAA gestappo guards running around during the raid, misdirecting the actual law enforcement officers around them, what would prevent any additional RIAA guys from walking in during the chaos to plant evidence (like the duplication machine they mention), ensuring they can detain at least one person to make an example of before the public?
It's almost like giving the ok to a rape victim's family to participate in the bust of the suspect and trusting that none of them would throttle the guy before the police got to him.
8==8 Bones 8==8
...you never lose a child due to a speeding driver. But if you do, perhaps you'll realize that what you think their priorities should be may not be what they realize priorities should be. It's all good and well to say "yeah, I was speeding, but I wasn't hurting anyone!" - but that sort of logic just means that you feel a ticket is only valid if the person did hurt somebody; obviously, it's a little late for a ticket then.
Put differently.. if speeders, drunk drivers, people running red lights, etc. etc. would just quit doing that, maybe cops wouldn't have to worry about them and put more manhours into those other cases.
The above not related to the MPAA/RIAA bit which this story is really about, so.. on-topic: good on them. It's a crime to sell counterfeit goods. Wake me when law goes into a direction where they can use a cop squad to bust somebody for downloading songs/movies only, and I'll actively oppose it. Those who want to make money off their downloads.. tough shitski if you get caught.
From TFA (emphasis mine):
Sgt. Paul Wandell, Beaverton police spokesman, said officers seized more than 50,000 items worth about $758,000. Most of the items were fake music CDs and movie DVDs, along with knockoff designer purses, sunglasses and clothing, and counterfeit brand-name toys, Wandell said.
This is basically what is getting at me - if a customer wants to buy a fake shirt or purse or whatever then he should be free to do so. This doesn't really appear to be the case anymore - it seems to be a case of trademarks gone bad.
sigs are hazardous to your health
The argument I most commonly see in the media etc. to outlaw honest knockoffs is this: "counterfeit medicine can kill you and so it is obvious that we must outlaw knockoff sneakers". I don't know why people are buying this but I suppose I can always blame the schools . . .
sigs are hazardous to your health
Nothing I read said all 50,000 items were CDs. They said other imposter items were seized; movies, handbags.. etc.
A fake gucci handbag will probably sell like hotcakes for $50... women eat that stuff up.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
In my book, using violence or threat of violence to take control over a ship you do not own, is piracy. Selling counterfeit CDs? Not piracy. Piracy involves vessels moving on the surface of a large body of water, and weapons. Selling counterfeit CDs can be piracy if you stole them from a ship.
In my book, an old Scottish way of washing clothes is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting. Typing a few words into a textbox and hitting "submit"? Not posting. Posting involves trampling clothes with feet in a tub of water. Typing comments on slashdot can be posting if you do it with your feet and then wear the keyboard.
Fake designer items at a flea market?? Ya don't say!
The world really is going to hell in a handbasket if we're raiding fleamarkets to arrest people who sell fruit of the loom tshirts with hilfiger logos printed on them.
"The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."
A classic Slashdot tactic is to accuse someone you disagree with of "trolling." I am not trolling. I'm just stating the truth about piracy, which has been spun over the years into some goofy moral crusade against copyright instead of being describe as what it actually is--selfish people scrambling to get stuff for free before they get caught. It's an entitlement culture.
What on Earth does this have to do with the argument? Obviously if an album isn't good, it won't sell. I'm not even sure what you think you're responding to with this statement because it has nothing to do with piracy. What someone does have a right to is compensation for their work, so if you take their work, you have to pay them for it. Otherwise, it's slavery.
In other words, you don't have a god-given right to their music.
If your ideas of freedom to use or copy it extend to distributing it over P2P networks, then you are infringing on their freedoms and rights.
Ah, and here we go. I knew somebody would use this classic tactic--change the debate from the morality of making sure an artist doesn't get paid to a history lesson on copyright and how it's "antiquated" or "obsolete" or "dead." Which, of course, isn't true since the GPL relies on copyright. It also has nothing to do with the topic of the discussion--the immorality of making sure an artist doesn't get paid when you take their work.
What does the time it takes to listen to something have to do with anything?! Does that mean fine wine should be worth 25 cents because I can drink it really fast? Products are priced based on the value assigned to them by market demand, not by their production costs or consumption duration. You're just using more distraction tactics to make sure people aren't discussing the artists. We've gone from scapegoating the RIAA to scapegoating copyright. You pirates are deathly afraid of discussing the human beings you're ripping off because it paints your movement in a bad light--a light you've worked very hard to avoid by blaming the RIAA as much as you possibly could.
Wow. Just wow. "It would be nice if artists got paid." At least you admit that you're okay having artistic slaves putting out work with no compensation so that you selfish pirates can enjoy it for free, as if you have some right to it.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Violent crimes are happening and increasing everyday... My taxes pay for these cops salaries. These cops should be at least fired and lost of pension.
Yeah. How dare they enforce a law THAT'S ON THE BOOKS which makes it a CRIME to profit from sales of counterfeit materials? What assholes! Next thing you know they'll be hunting down murder suspects!
You're a fucking moron.