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Voice Chat Can Really Kill the Mood
Raver32 writes with Wired article about the strange juxtaposition of real life identities intruding on virtual world bliss. Voice chat is becoming a very common component of online games, from MMOGs to FPS titles. Many even bundle a voice chat service into the game client now. That's useful, tactically, but socially it can be downright frustrating, confusing, or awkward. "Recently I logged into World of Warcraft and I wound up questing alongside a mage and two dwarf warriors. I was the lowest-level newbie in the group, and the mage was the de-facto leader. He coached me on the details of each new quest, took the point position in dangerous fights and suggested tactics. He seemed like your classic virtual-world group leader: Confident, bold and streetsmart. But after a few hours he said he was getting tired of using text chat — and asked me to switch over to Ventrilo, an app that lets gamers chat using microphones and voice. I downloaded Ventrilo, logged in, dialed him up and ... realized he was an 11-year-old boy."
I play Guild Wars. Recently we (the hubby) and I picked up Vent since it is what our Alliance and Guild uses for communication on long/complicated missions. I generally know how old folks are in my guild/team but it was definitly enlightening to hear accents from the UK to the deep South of the US. On some levels it was cool but it does have a different flavor from going at it with text. Somehow you lose some of the ambience. Not sure how else to explain it.
--Cally
"I AM THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS!" really doesn't work with a beginning-to-crack-prepubescent-boy voice, does it?
The problem I have with the age variations on a video game is that I was raised to address certain social groups differently. It _totally_ kills my gaming mood when I chew out the squad leader in BF2142 for making a bad call and then have some kid (or worse, some young girl) come on voice comms to apologize. I mean, I would never have used that language if I'd realized it was a kid/girl in the first place, and now I'm an asshole. I realize this is a 'self-inflicted' problem, but the converse (you realize that hard-charging drill-sergeant vocabulary is coming from a 6 year old) is just as disquieting.
Glad to know im not the only one who finds voice a mood killa. Peoples insipid gossip and just talking for the hell of it. Some people just like to talk and talk about NOTHING. I assume these are the same people who start dialing their phone before they start their car. Who has that much idle chatter stored up in their brain? If its text, its pretty easy to filter, but voice? Forget about it.
The usefull information and orders are intermixed with information about some guys hernia operation or fluffy kitty. Not to mention the pre pubescent people SCREAMING into the mic for attention, girls flirting with everyone, etc. Nothing makes me cringe more than hearing nasily wow players flirting with girls over vent. I especially hated that when I played wow. It completely ruins the fantasy mood but was required for endgame raiding. I dont want to be slaying dragons with the pimple faced kid from the simpsons. Id much rather picture peoples characters than the "character" that their voice reminds me of.
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
While I agree that roleplaying may suffer a bit when you have a night elf female voiced by a guy who sounds like he's from the south, I've found that having voice chat can make the games much more fun.
Back in my WoW days I enjoyed jumping on Teamspeak and chatting with people during our raids. Our guild was good enough that when we were clearing trash mobs (unless someone screwed up) we could freely chat and tell jokes and stuff. It also made hours of grinding for items much more fun when you could just chat with people. The range of real people behind the players also made for some interesting times. We had people that ranged from early teens to grandmothers/grandfathers, all across the world in a variety of different occupations. It made the game a lot more fun because you developed a certain bond with the other players that you couldn't do only over text chat.
Plus it was really fun listening to the guys/girls with the Australian accents!
Note to self: Stop putting jokes in my insightful comments so I can get something other than +1 Funny!
Back in the day I used to do larping. I was the leader of my group and for the most part they were just friends of mine. I was one of the natural leaders of the social group anyway so it wasn't that hard to deal with, but one of my friends fathers came to game with us. I was a high school/college student at the time but he was a very intelligent engineer with fantastic reasoning and logic skills and I really looked up to him personally.
His character, however, was that of a basic support healer, not a lot of initiative and very risk adverse. My tendency would have been to go to this guy for advice but instead he would come to me asking if he should use his healing now or save it for later (staying in character). This totally threw me, how could I be in charge of someone like that? how could I be the one making the decisions in the face of someone I would normally deffer to.
So I sucked it up and made the decisions and became a better role player for it.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
I played Everquest pretty much from the beginning, and, even though I'm male, at some point I created a female Barbarian (Henna Barberra - ah fun with last names). She became my main, and when I would stand at EC and give SoWs for donations, players would always give me much more than normal. Some higher level players would just run up and give me nice items and not even want the SoW. Of course this led to plenty of A/S/L tells. I don't play female characters any longer - the free stuff isn't worth all the "Hey, baby"'s. It's probably somewhat better now that more females actually play, but during EQ's early days, female players were extremely rare.
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
Yeah, I had a similar experience. My wife and I were in a party in an instance. I kept getting hit on by some dude in the party. I had a female mage and my wife was playing a male rouge. That moron got us all killed and then asked me if I would be interested in some action... when he found out I was a guy, he freaked out. My wife was laughing her ass off.
I have this theory that almost all the female characters in WoW are men. Most women I know that play usually pick guys so they don't get hit on all the time.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
I only play UT2004, no other online games, but I can say that voice chat is generally a benefit and does add a lot to the atmosphere of the game even if you don't have a mic. It usually turns out that someone with a mic suggests tactics and alerts which most people generally respond to, so it makes the team more cohesive.
Of course you do get the odd annoying whiney little moron, but its pretty rare. From other reports it sounds like UT generally attracts a better class of player comapred to games like Wow. Maybe because its 3 or 4 years old now and doesn't need a monthly subscription, it keeps the more braindead/annoying/younger players away.
Problem is when you "talk trash" with them and get arrested for something regarding child pornography.
Having a special icon when you are under the age of consent (A lovely debate on what *that* should be) is not just to protect the juvenile, but also everyone who interacts with them.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Wrong. All it seems people use them for is just talking crap about each other. I maybe only get to play a couple hours a month anymore and really only want to play co-op missions for fun. It's entertainment. I always run into a few folks there for the same reason, but even more kids that are frankly punks out to diss everyone else and prove to the universe how cool they are.
That and clans. Everyone seems to be talking about this clan or that clan or do you want to join a clan...crap, I want to charge up the hill with people that know a thing or two about fire/movement tactics, and have some fun! I don't care about the inner politics of the gaming community.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
I knew some people that used Diablo II as a long distance phone system. Free real-time chat to anywhere in the world.
You should be able to do this pretty easily by having a moderated server with a 'dmz' zone where new players can 'audition' in a short, simple game setting. Accepted players would be accepted for a trial period.
You could have at least 3 or more levels or 'realms' of access, with the higher levels being available to those players who show spirit, interest and stay in character. 'Experience points' or whatever should be lower on the list. If you want good role-players, then award experience/merit for good role-playing and advance them to higher realms (if not levels) based on that.
The highest 'realm' might have lots of lowly 2nd level fighters/mages/whatever and 20th level wizards and so on, but they would all have proven themselves capable of playing by the rules and staying in character. That could afford some really interesting roleplay encounters, rather than a wide-open field with 'L33ts', high-score-hounds, spammers, gender-benders and genuine role-players all in one space. You could develop much more sophisticated storylines and such rather than just having strong characters prey on the week to go for the next level. Weak (low-level) players who are good role-players in a higher-realm setting could be given (in context) information or objects or abilities which make them valuable to the higher-level players in the context of one storyline/adventure or another.
Exclusive access to the higher (more refined) realms would be a good carrot to encourage roleplay. People who don't like that would quickly go elsewhere to 'greener' (?) pastures. That would be a very interesting sort of server, and while I wouldn't be a player myself, I'd love to see some other group put it together and make it work.
**>>BELCH
I've played WoW for some time now, and I have been in raids where we use voice chat to coordinate the raids (and crack jokes at each other, of course), and one lesson learned is : Listen to what people say, not who's saying it. A 12 year old have saved our raid's collective asses a few times when on raiding, and is class leader in our guild (He coordinate that class, distribute loot for that class, and generally keep control over them). The fact that he's 12 is of no consequence to us. He knows what he's doing, he's smart enough, and that's all that matters.
Now, of course, if you actually read the article (which I did just now.. shame on me), the text goes on like this
It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
Why wouldn't you just use free pc to pc voice services like skype?
In my last guild, we had an age minimum of 18. But the rule was that we never asked someone their age directly, and we ignored little slips like applicants mentioning high school. Or grade school for that matter (we basicly pretended school meant college). The idea was that if you could trick us into thinking you were a certain age based on maturity level, you were cool no matter what your true age was. If you couldn't, we suddenly remembered those slips and said no based on age. This helped us to weed out the immature kiddies, while letting in those who were mature for their age.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
On the topic of the leadership skills that kid is gaining, this is a consideration I've come across recently and that might actually be a very valuable aspect of these computer games, in contrast to the ''they're turning your brain to mush!'' hyperbolae. My EVE-Online alliance has a 14-year old (well, he was fifteen the other week) pilot, and he is one of our fleet-commanders. While not as mature as those older than him, he is a great leader with a cool and level head, and I think his experience here is going to value him greatly when he is older, whether he is managing in business or joins the military.
A block of code, sufficiently well-written, is indistinguishable from magick.
'It comes down to trying to determine if you believe somebody has important information.'
You have just nailed one of the greatest flaws in typical human reasoning. Humans attempt to judge the source rather than information. Hitler could have written the most profound poetry, work that gives the reader a beneficial life altering insight into their soul. Only a few historians would ever read it and even they may not read it with an open mind.
A better example is Eugenics. Eugenics has never been seriously considered in the modern day because of the unscientific manner in which the Nazi's used the concept to justify genocide. People can't seem to separate the two. It's actually fairly sad because ranchers and farmers have assumed the validity of Eugenics (probably without even knowing what it was and the stigma attached to it) for decades if not centuries and their successful results make it very difficult to dispute the core concept.
One should never consider the source when determining the validity and importance of information except as a last resort. Instead, one should consider the information itself and let it stand or fall on its own merit.
You sound like an extrovert. Those of us who are introverts freaking HATE "jumping on teamspeak and chatting with people".
One is not better than the other. But extroverts seem to not recognize that introverts exist, or think they're dong them some kind of favor by forcing them into situations they do not want to take part in.
I'm not the commited introvert I used to be, and I don't mind using Vent or Skype these days with people I know. But back in the day, using voice chat would have been an absolute deal breaker for me in online games.
-- Dave
Making fun of dumb people since 2009
I remember the frustration as well, but what I conveniently forget (which has been painfully illustrated by my own kids) is how often I was wrong. We judge people's insight based on past performance, and kids generally have a poor track record because, among other things, while they may clearly remember a conversation, or an event that occurred, they frequently mis-interpret what actually transpired, or leave out important details. For example, when his teacher asked him to confirm that "xxx-xxxx" was our phone number, my 6 year-old came to the conclusion that his teacher had the same phone number as we did, and vehemently insisted that this was true. For some reason or another, he had completely misinterpreted what had happened. As another example, apparently his school is still teaching that Pluto is a planet (as of last month). I was completely unsuccessful at convincing him otherwise, probably because he doesn't yet completely understand that definitions are not absolute (although I didn't try very hard because I didn't want him to fail his assignments. Yes, I could have pressed the issue with the school, but I think it will be easier, and no less effective in the long run, to just explain it when he's a bit older). Anyway, when someone presents you with misinformation on a fairly constant basis, you have to take everything they say with a grain of salt, and that's true whether the source is a child or an adult. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, but unless you have kids, or deal with them on a regular basis, it's hard to appreciate how often they're just plain wrong. Given that, it's not hard to understand why parents assume their children are wrong if what their children say conflicts with their view of reality. Parents should probably try to be open to the idea that their children are right, but at the same time, learning to present a convincing argument (and when not to bother) is an important part of growing up.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
He has a level 31 Blood Elf hunter and to my amazement he is always getting into instances. He can't really read what is being said in party chat and he can't really communicate with them but he'll go an entire instance. I often wonder what the other people in the party must be thinking about him. I assume they think he doesn't speak English. If they check out hi character they have to be thinking WTF. He's got a cloth piece with spirit and healing and some odd leather pieces that don't belong on a hunter. Although, he is able to determine if something is leather or cloth now. He does lots of runs without a pet and at times without arrows so he has to use his sword, dagger, or whatever random weapon he happens to be using at the time. So, moral of the story is you just never know who you might be playing with online. It could be a 6 year old kid.
Oh, *many* people, heck I'd say *most* people, roleplay in WOW. You were perhaps hoping they'd be roleplaying in a way that would be in-character for their avatars - this is a very odd expectation for a group that didn't come to MMORPGs from other RPGs.
Nevertheless, people play with very distinct and consistant personalities that are often quite different from their "real life" personality. They're roleplaying an online persona, just not an "in-character" one. And, truthfully, if you just look at a game like WOW without bringing any background to it from other books and games, there's not much there to get in-character about.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I agree, but it's not limited just to kids. I'm in my mid-20s, and I'd always been a happy worker bee type. I was good at taking specific instructions and making good things out of them. From there I could even take initiative and extend it. However, give me something vague or anything involving much leadership, and I froze up. I'd be tentative, cautious to the point of paralysis, and generally ineffective worrying I'd mess something up and let people down. Somewhere along the line my fiancee dragged me into WoW (sounds backwards, but that's how it went. She still plays lots more than me). At first that initial trait worked great. A party leader would mark targets, and I'd tank my warrior's little heart out, and generally did well at it. Did that all the way to 70 even. Then one day I ended up partied with some guild newbies on a first run of an instance I'd run several times, and suddenly they expected me to lead. Latter problem popped up. I wiped the group on the very first pull even. I made it, though, without too much further trouble. A little later, I led another group successfully. And on from there. Now, even in real life, I've found I'm better able to handle leadership initiative without freezing and have been doing a pretty good job of it so far. I just needed somewhere risk-free to have a chance to loosen up rather than somewhere where failure really would be a significant setback.
There is too much information to give everything equal consideration. We apply a higher level filter to determine which sources of information we should spend our time on. The filter is not perfect, but without it you can not focus on anything specific. We miss some gems because of this, we think within a box, we value people who can think outside the box - but consider that if you are so far outside the box that you can't find the box you are no longer "clever" you are just "crazy".
While some of the meritocracy associated with text-only gaming disappears when you fire up TeamSpeak or Ventrilo or whatever, in my experience plenty remains. I've played TrueCombat:Elite for a good while now, and I would never want to go back to text-only. Gaming has now become for me a social experience - it's no longer just about relaxing for half an hour fragging some terrorists, it's now about fragging and actually talking to people who can quite honestly call friends. Yet these friends are respected because of who they are (and, to an extent, how well they play) not according to any social stereotype.
Age enters into it somewhat, admittedly. But we happily play alongside a 16 year old friend of ours (although the clans have an 18-years rule) and he is respected because he is friendly. At the same time, I've made friends with a mass of people who I would otherwise never have been able to - not in the way that I have. I now know a Scot from Dundee who's married with two children, I know tens of Germans, several of whom are twice my age or more. In real life, I, as an 18-year-old, would perhaps know and talk with a married 36 year old, I might even be friends with him. But I would never, I would say, have the kind of frank, uninhibited conversation that we all do - it's more like a bunch of blokes at a bar, and if you go to a bar you don't go with people twice your age, usually.
Without voice chat, I would perhaps "know" some of these people - I remember before I used to log on to TeamSpeak I would recognise a few of the regulars on the servers. But one can never hold a conversation of the same type purely through the in-game text chat feature. The conversations we have online range widely in topic - we see little glimpses of each other's home lives, mundane things like the Scot having to leave temporarily because one of his daughters is holding a tin of paint (a new variation on the "it's past the 13-year-old's bedtime) or discussions of Marmite which proceed from my becoming peckish. We discuss television, politics, language, photography, share jokes and behave altogether more like... blokes at a bar than gamers at their PCs.
im in ur
Which is the definition of prejudice.