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The Roadmap to Leopard?
Alexandros Roussos writes with a link to the site MacScoop, which claims to have obtained a roadmap for the months leading up to Leopard's release. It's a straightforward article, stating how much access individuals outside the company will have access to the product prior to October. "Major build on early August - In a little more than a month, Apple's development team targets a feature-full build. The build that was provided to developers during the World Wide Developers Conference earlier this month is actually not totally feature frozen. Some minor features are currently being finished for the system. These features will arrive in the August build along with user-interface improvements, sources told MacScoop. If you expect major 'wow' features or interface changes, you will be disappointed. What we may expect is additional settings and [some] user interface polish[ing]. Among the most criticized parts of the new user interface [are] the new menu bar and Dock."
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The milestone that will follow the total feature-freeze is slated for September, as the target of Apple's internal development team is a totally feature-full and stable Final Candidate version of Mac OS X Leopard.
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In early to mid October, Leopard should reach the Golden Master status and Apple will be launching the DVD and packaging production.
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Finally, the release is scheduled for late October Is that a realistic time frame? Seems to be an awfully short to me, then again I've never been involved in projects on that kind of scale.
OK, I watched the WWDC07 demos of Leopard and I thought the new Dock and menu bar looked good. What's the beef? I've not read any "reviews" yet. No matter what happens - come October this MacPro will be running Leopard.
Is it just me, or is the "timeline" the article talks about not just something you could reasonably deduce, knowing where Leopard is at right now and when they plan to release it?
Didn't seem like there was any real new info here, but maybe it's just me.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
...seems to be the main complaint among the bits I've read. And after having used it now myself, I'd have to agree.
Personally, I like the new look of the dock. The menu bar, however, is something I really hope they make an option. For the same reason that I (and many others) don't want or use semi-transparent windows, I don't want a semi-transparent menu bar. It's like they threw readability and usability out the window, all in the name of looking "cool".
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Among the most criticized parts of the new user interface [are] the new menu bar and Dock.
So basically the entire Desktop change is criticized. That's basically ALL that changed in Desktop: the menu and the dock.
It's kinda funny as well since it's the first time I've seen Mac lift "look and feel" straight from a Windows release (Vista).
People have complained that the dock doesn't look as cool on the side. The reflection design is really an artistic element that only works well when the dock is on the bottom, and always showing. Fine for demos in a keynote, but most people who use their computer move the dock to the side, to make more screen real estate in the vertical dimension, where it's badly needed. I guess teh menu bar looks a little "flat" to some people. I like it myself. I don't want it to be flashy and distracting.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Well, not really. The unified look and feel is quite nice. It's much less of a distraction. The way emphasis of the window of current focus has improved a lot since Tiger, too.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
You should consider providing feedback to . It sounds like the behavior of the stacks could be improved with a little effort, rather than ditching the concept altogether.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
I think the transparent menu is unnecessary, and perhaps counterproductive, but not a huge deal. I'm curious about what is disliked about the dock though. Stacks seemed a nice feature, and other than that there really wasn't much to right home about. Oh actually I do have a complaint about the stack - smartly, the last item placed on the stack is the one visible in the dock, but when you go to fan them out, it become the farthest one away making it the hardest to click, even though it is the one you are most likely to open.
I'm also curious about how they are handling mounted volumes. I noticed that they were not on the desktop anymore (yea! I hate using the desktop for anything but wallpaper). It didn't look like they were available in the dock though either. Is the finder sidebar the only place you will be able to find them now? I'd love it if they were accessible via a special stack in the dock, with newly inserted ones showing up on the top. I use DragThing right now to do something similar.
While I'm drifting off subject, I've wondered how the shared volumes will work for large networks. Jobs mentioned that any computer will automatically be found (via netbios or zeroconf?) and will show up in the finder sidebar. What happens if you are on a company or dorm network - hundreds of computers in the sidebar? I'd hope not. Maybe after a certain number of computers, it is replaced with a "see entire network link" where you can browse and/or pick which computers should be in the sidebar.
"What we may expect is additional settings and [some] user interface polish[ing]. Among the most criticized parts of the new user interface [are] the new menu bar and Dock."
Okay, I was wondering what the "new menu bar and Dock" were referring to. Here's Apple's page on the subject. Damn, I was really hoping they were bringing back NextStep-like vertical menu bars a an option, but, nooooo, they're making the menubar transparent. Useless. One of the most key UI elements transparent? Why? For a few extra pixels of the desktop that you won't usually see behind windows anyway? What is this? Windows Vista? Thank goodness they are apparently leaving the window border transparency alone.
It's a bad sign when the OS isn't released yet and there's already a patch to remove this new "feature". Please, Apple, at least make it optional in Preferences.
Bullshit. In grid mode, the icons display with file names, and a right-click gets a menu, and one of the items is to open the folder in the Finder. Yeah, there are some rough spots that need fixing up, but because of the NDA I won't go into that. But I figured I'd stretch the NDA a little when I saw blatant misinformation about dock behavior, from someone whom I'm guessing doesn't actually have the beta but is just passing on misunderstood info.
- apache
- bash
- ksh
- openssl
- perl
- postfix
- python
- ruby
- sqlite
- ssh
- svn (?)
- zsh
- x11
etc...?What about multitouch? -- It's already incorporated into the iPhone interface,
and the iPhone is running Leopard
Yes, only one place, bottom right. Come on Apple, we could resize windows from any edge 20 fscking years ago! Heck, OS X doesn't even let you change the system fonts without the use of 3rd party tools.
I keep my Dock on the bottom as well. I wanted more screen real estate, so I bought a Samsung 22" widescreen. Problem solved. Oh and I love DVI.
You're right that by default the Stacks sort by and use the last added item icon, but you can change to different sort criteria and thus a different icon will be reflected in the stack.
e r
:(
It may be possible to manually change the stack icon but i haven't looked into it very much.
Another big complaint people had with Leopard is that a previously advertised feature of screen sharing within iChat appeared to have been moved to the new Finder instead. While the Finder does indeed support screen sharing i can state that iChat appears to have the feature there too. At least there is a screen sharing button in iChat and one of the capabilities iChat 4 reports is apple:iq:rd:server and apple:iq:rd:client.
For any XMPP devs that might read this post here's a list of all the capabilities reported when i did a service discovery on iChat:
iChat v3 capabilities
http://jabber.org/protocol/si
http://jabber.org/protocol/si/profile/file-transf
jabber:iq:version
http://jabber.org/protocol/bytestreams
apple:iq:vc:capable
apple:iq:vc:multivideo
http://jabber.org/protocol/sipub
http://jabber.org/protocol/xhtml-im
vcard-temp:x:update
apple:iq:vc:video
apple:iq:vc:available
apple:iq:vc:audio
Service Discovery (http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#info)
apple:profile:bundle-transfer
apple:iq:vc:multiaudio
iChat v4 additional capabilities
apple:iq:rd:client
apple:iq:vc:recauth
apple:iq:vc:ice
apple:iq:rd:server
apple:profile:efh-transfer
apple:iq:vc:auxvideo
http://www.apple.com/xmpp/message-attachments
apple:profile:transfer-extensions:rsrcfork
So it looks like iChat will get some new abilities. I think the ICE stuff will solve one of the major problems that Tiger users have complained about, NAT traversal for audio/video. I believe the efh stuff is encrypted file transfers but am not sure. Looks like there's no Jingle or true SIP support coming though.
> I'm also curious about how they are handling mounted volumes. I noticed
> that they were not on the desktop anymore (yea! I hate using the desktop
> for anything but wallpaper).
You can take HDs, CDs, iPods, servers, and mounted disc images off the desktop right now, if you're so inclined.
Go to Finder>Preferences, or use command-comma while Finder is the selected app. From there, just uncheck the top three ("Show these items on the Desktop") boxes in the "General" pane. Bamf... nothing on your desktop but what you purposely put there.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
You are mistaken.
I think that there is enough from the keynote alone to demonstrate that it doesn't operate entirely as you have stated. Beyond that I can't say (NDA). And, in any case, this is still in beta, so don't get tied down on minor points.
As TFA states, there are several releases planned - and I think that whilst I don't know the timescale for the releases any more than you, I'd be stunned if the Developer preview ships unchanged. That is a major point of a beta preview, right? Partly to update your software, but partly to field test the whole shebang on a group of people who aren't going to cry the house down if not every feature is perfect or stable.
It is a preview, for developers. It will undoubtedly change.
Michael
Michael
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
> Among the most criticized parts of the new user interface [are] the new menu bar and Dock."
The menu bar obviously needs a control of some kind in Preferences, that enables you to set the amount of the new effect, even to zero. There is already a third-party app that fixes this for the developer preview, they can make it a non-issue entirely with a single check box or slider.
The new Dock is awesome, though. It is not 3D eye candy, it actually is 3D. Instead of a strip of flypaper with 2D photos stuck on it, now you have a shelf with 3D objects sitting on it. Some objects are behind other objects. In a single position you can have a "stack" of documents where one is clearly in the front and many more behind, and you can leaf through them with a gesture. The Dock's look has not even changed, it just has an extra dimension.
It's like when you're taking a group photo and you get too many people for one row you have to make a second row and then a third. The Dock has a way to do this now. We have more stuff than ever. Vastly improved.
I'm torn between (a) breaking my NDA, (b) refusing to post anonymously and (c) watching someone who has very little exposure to Leopard make comments.
I guess I'll stick with keeping my mouth shut
For those who block all AC comments, I've repeated the quoted here. Make of it what you will.
Michael
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
Does anyone have definitive information on what HD formats Leopard will support? Last I checked. rumors swirled around support for one or the other or none. I use a Mac Mini as media center and if Leopard does not support the HD formats (and someone does not come out with an affordable combo, or at least HDDVD. drive), it does not sound like a very appealing upgrade for that use.
. Unless I'm mistaken, stacks are HORRIBLE!!!
You are mistaken. Both views have a "Show In Finder" option, and the grid view most certainly does contain text. The screenshots on Apple's site, as well as the keynote demo both show this, which casts some doubt on everything else you've said.
Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
ICBW, but if memory serves people were saying similar things about the Dock when Mac OS X 10.0 was in development.
I'm pretty sure they're not saying that now.
Actually, someone (not me!) has posted this stuff online:
Example of Stacks (Needs Flash, so it won't work on an iPhone!)
I think this shows enough to contradict what you have said.
Check this out before apple no doubt removes it and sets the lawyers on the website.
Michael
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
It is not 3D eye candy, it actually is 3D.
Really?
In the videos it looked like a typical "two-and-a-half" dimension interface, where the third dimension is an effect applied to a two-dimensional interface, like the "3d" drop shadowed-windows in OS X, or the "3d" buttons that have become the norm for windowed GUIs over the past decade and a half: you would get the same functionality with a short vertical stack of objects in two dimensions.
This isn't intended to put it down, or anything... I don't think that full 3d makes a lot of sense here, actually, so I'm curious as to what you mean by "it actually is 3d".
(as an aside, what I want to see is the ability to run applets in the dock... it's one of the things I miss from the enhanced NeXT-style dock in Windowmaker/GNUstep)
Mortals did not write and build Leopard. It had been hidden away years ago by the Knights Templar.
It's late because the secret to its existence was discovered by his Steve on a trip to the Louvre and it took this much time to discover its true location.
is that you can't tell which applications are running and which are not. In the Tiger dock, running applications have a very visible black triangle under them. In the Leopard dock, there is a much more subtle shadowing effect that indicates running applications. It needs to be less subtle.
I would hope that the Aqua interface elements get a reworking before the final release. They look absolutely out of place in the new unified interface scheme. If they simply copied over the iPhone style Leopard would look a whole lot better. Take a look at them side by side and tell me which you prefer.
iPhone does run an os named 'OS X' but that doesn't mean it has anything in common with the Darwin-based OS X running on the Macs. Just because Microsoft calls several products 'Windows' doesn't mean they share much (if any) code.
Place nail here >+
I don't know how stacks are going to work. I suspect that I will not like them, in the same way I ddi not like dock. I still have issues with the dock, but have made it work for me. Any changes they make to the dock, might be to the better.
I am not sure what is happening with menus. What I do know is that the fix menu is not working well for large screens. I actually like the fact that I go into x-windows for my office applications. I don't want to go the random order and tiny icon route that MS seems to favor, as I live by the expectations that certain menu items will be in a certain spot, just like I live by the fact that the keys on my keyboard will be in a certain spot. In any case, menus can be improved.
Back to stacks, it this not the piles motif that has been floating around for years? Things kind of come and go with the Apple OS. If people use it, and it is reliable, it stays. If not, it goes. Sort of like the location option for various settings.
I am not in hurry for this version of Mac OS. I think it will mostly be of interest to those who have the new Intel macs and want to run MS Windows. I will likely acquire with my next Mac, and see if it is worth upgrading the other machines.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
There are conflicting rumors, with comments coming from Chicago Sun-Times columnist Andy Ihnatko suggesting iPhone does indeed run Leopard - pared down and ported to ARM - for shared code base and to take advantage of Core Animation. When a developer SDK is released it would make sense to have cross-compatibilty, and multitouch functionality as a Leopard module would make a complementary match.
... much more on the iPhone codebase here.
To the original point, whenceforth multitouch Apple hardware?
Those who block AC comments don't deserve to be informed.
Make Slashdot readable! See journal.
"What about multitouch? -- It's already incorporated into the iPhone interface, "
;) )
Actually you have (limited) Multitouch-capability already in OS X 10.4. The MacBooks' and MacBookPros' Trackpads will interpret actions you do with two fingers differently than actions you do with one finger. Examples:
click [one finger] = "left click"
click [two fingers] = "right click" ("control click" for you 1-button-mouse-maccies
drag [one finger] = nothing (unless trackpad-button is depressed, then it's "drag selected item")
drag [two fingers] = scroll horizontally or vertically, depending on direction of drag
The latter function (two-finger-scroll) is actually one of the nicest input-features i've ever encountered, right on par with the scroll-wheel (slightly better even, because it works horizontally too, without having to press any modifier key). I had heard about it and could not quite imagine how this would be good, but once I tried it I was hooked immediately.(*)
I, too, hope that Apple will expand the Multitouch-capabilities of their OS/Trackpads, but the basic functionality is already here.
(*) Yes, I know there were Trackpads before with dedicated strips for scrolling (or software, that would create a "scrolling-area" on your trackpad, but this works without having to think about where you put your fingers (and it works seamlessly in the x/y-directions).
sig? Oh, that sig...
The more small patterns you have in the image (or section of the image near the top), the worse the menu bar looks.
I have my Mac set to change the desktop once a day. At first, everything was great -- it was picking images with sky at the top -- essentially solid color. Then it brought up a zen rock garden, which is one of my favorite images.
On Leopard, it makes the menus unreadable. The dark/light pattern in the rocks makes it impossible to find letters in the menu. I've also found many pictures will make it difficult to read or identify menu extras on the right side of the screen.
They need to fix this ASAP. Oh, and the new Finder icons are horrible too. There's zero color contrast to identify the different folders.
Front and side, concept multitouch iMac mockup.
Perceptive Pixel demo by Jeff Han, TED talk, research homepage. Fingerworks, purchased by Apple, 2005.
You have the best sig ever.
Personally, I think Apple has finally lost it after several years of producing innovations that have changed much of the world. The fact that they are touting a transparent menubar as a major feature suggests their idea pool for MacOS X development is starting to collapse in the same way Copeland did in the mid 90's. They've become too focused on presentation and eye candy, rather than improving what goes on under the hood.
Of course, that isn't to say MacOS X hasn't been a mess in terms of the Human Interface Guidelines (on which the Mac OS was based) since the earliest public releases, but making the one visual concept that has remained consistent and immediately recognizeable in all versions of the Mac OS almost completely invisible has to be the single worst offense to date. The menubar was supposed to be a fixed (and always visible) reference point for the user to rely on while the rest of the desktop evironment continually changes during each session of use. It's the one part of the OS that keeps everything else organized and easily understood.
Aside from Leopard, we'll soon have the iPhone to contend with, which is sure to be a nightmare once the early adopters get past the hype and Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field and start to realize just how confining the device really is due to all the red tape that comes with it. It will probably sell as expected, but in the end, it may go down in history as on of the worst products in Apple's history, next to the Lisa, as a result of all the artificial limitations imposed upon it that kept it from being the killer product everyone really wanted it to be.
By the time this all plays out, Steve Jobs may get ousted for both 10.5 and the iPhone, much like Gil Amelio was due to Copeland and mac cloning.
8==8 Bones 8==8
I know quite a few old time NeXT users who keep the Dock on the side, even though NeXTSTEP had it on the right. This is because the left side position clusters the controls better. Less mouse travel between app launch on the left and menu selection on the top/left. I know a bunch of ordinary users (old school Mac users and Windows switchers) who try it in different places and wind up with it on the left, too.
It would be interesting to know what the statistics are for dock position.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
If you have folders within folders, how does it handle that? Do you wind up with yet another grid? I really like having my Documents folder in the dock, with a right-click I can get into all the subfolders by hovering and get to documents much more quickly than through a finder window.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
You are correct that this approach using a common code base for a mainstream OS and the "mobile version" is not true for Windows. Windows CE/PocketPC/Windows Mobil are radically different animals to the Windows 2000/XP/Vista operating systems that were contemporaneous with them. The early versions were actually forks from the Windows 95/98/ME code base.
This common code base between Macintosh and iPhone will prove to be a tremendous advantage to Apple as the OS X platform evolves. By contrast, Symbian has fractured into at least 3 different systems, Windows Mobile is a forked codebase from an old version of Windows, and there are at least several different Linux forks, each with a manufacturer custom middleware layer on top. It will be harder than people think for other cell phone manufacturers to catch up with, and keep up with, iPhone's OS X.
It's very likely that OS X has a great deal more in common with Mac OS X than you think. In fact, it's very likely to be built from the same source, managed in the very same respository (well, certain modules may have been forked during the secret R&D phase, but if it isn't already, it will be merged back in soon enough). I know that this is a little hard to believe, because there are too many examples to the contrary, which make it seem as if this must be "hard". However, it's really much more labor intensive to do this "wrong", e.g. to fork a code base then try to constantly back-port all the fixes and enhancements you get from the energy going into the main code branch.
If you want to better understand how this can work, examine two things. (1) The distinction between Mac OS X and Mac OS X Server is non existent. It's the only commercial operating system in the world where that's true. (One could argue that any version of FreeBSD or Linux can function equally well as a server and a client, but one could also argue that neither really functions all that well as a desktop/notebook client OS). (2) Consider the way that Cocoa applications are built for both PowerPC an
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Everybody has their undies in a bunch about the 10 things the Jobs showed in the recent keynote. Those things were carefully chosen by Jobs, likely with a great deal of input from other executives and managers at Apple, probably more such input than any keynote ever before. Why? Because Apple was trying to motivate the 5000 developers at WWDC to be more innovative with their use of some of the Mac OS X technologies. Apple focused that keynote on things like creative use of CoverFlow in several places, and other uses of CoreAnimation, to get developers to think more creatively.
Leopard has a bunch of interesting OS level features (some described here: Leopard and here: Leopard Server
Your complaints about the menu bar are valid, but can be easily solved by adding a user preference setting to the Dock for transparency level, and making the default be "very nearly opaque".
I think you're missing the point about the iPhone.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
I think this issue of the Finder flipping out is due partly to the finder and partly due to the automounter (autofs), both of which appear to have received a major overhaul in Leopard. Autofs has apparently been threaded. If the Finder is instrumented with NSOperation (I can find no publicly available documentation to that effect), then the combination of those efforts should be a "Finder" which appears to be much more responsive than on previous versions of Mac OS X.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
If there's no defaults write command, just make the top part of your background image a solid color, or use one of the thousands of utilities that will appear (and have already appeared) doing something like this.
Showing mounted volumes on the Desktop was always a Finder option. Maybe Steve simply had it turned off. I think early versions of OS X did not have this option, and Mac users complained, so Apple put it in.
If nothing is in the process of being automounted, the automounter has precisely nothing to do with any Finder hangs.
With the old single-threaded automounter, if a mount was in progress, the automounter would be incapable of responding to any other requests. As the old automounter was a user-mode NFS server, which handled /Network/Server, as well as directories such as /Network/Applications and /Network/Server, those paths referred to symbolic links in the file system implemented by that server, so any references to them turned into requests to the automounter - which, as noted, would hang, if the automounter was in the process of trying to mount a file system from an unresponsive server (which includes servers that aren't on your network because you've disconnected from the network on which they reside).
If, however, the automounter wasn't in the middle of a mount, it could respond to those requests. However, if the server in question was unresponsive, subsequent NFS requests would hang.
With autofs:
So switching to autofs and a multi-threaded automounter will help some hangs - but not all hangs.
Docklets existed in early versions of OS X. They were removed because (I guess) not a lot of people used them. It probably makes more sense to have a real application that updates its Dock icon regularly.
Translucency really, really sucks. It is distracting and makes it harder to read. Just look at Word for Mac or iTerm. The translucent effect just makes it harder on the eyes, while providing NO benefit. It should really be optional overall.
Now, MenuShade is a program that gives your menu a less-brighter shade. THAT is a good idea, because it prevents the menu from burning in your fancy LCD. Im using it all the time, and it is easier on the eyes, AND simple to read.
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
I don't believe the iPhone can honestly be called a 1.0 Product when it comes out. There have already been external changes. I'm sure there have been internal changes early in it's life as well. Then there's the software side, which we all should be able to to see that as evolving. I'll give you 1.0.x
Some of us are stuck with old IE6 at work and that seems to have problems with the AC postings.
And anyway, blocking AC postings by choice probably raises the average quality of the discussions.
If this were really happening, what would you think?
I just want them to make the OS work better on the Intel boxes. And please, can we get rid of the traffic light control buttons and have a plain old Windows-style thing with bigger, square buttons? You can put them on the left, right, or center, I don't care--just make them so a fellow working on a laptop doesn't feel like he's practicing microsurgery by just trying to click a window control.
Development is programmable; Discovery is not programmable. (Fuller)
Wouldn't there be anything, maybe a slider or something, that would allow you to change the transparency of the menu? That would be a simple and practical solution, especially since you're able to adjust the transparency of the doc in the same way.