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Take Two Shelves Manhunt 2
If you've been following this story so far, it shouldn't come as a shock that Take-Two has shelved Manhunt 2 for the moment, while they decide what to do next. The company is considering its options, and still fully supports the game as a 'work of art'. "Take-Two Interactive Software has temporarily suspended plans to distribute Manhunt 2 for the Wii or PlayStation platforms while it reviews its options with regard to the recent decisions made by the British Board of Film Classification and Entertainment Software Rating Board ... We continue to stand behind this extraordinary game. We believe in freedom of creative expression, as well as responsible marketing, both of which are essential to our business of making great entertainment." Analysts have already started weighing in, with some seeing this as unfairly targeting the GTA-maker for previous 'sins'.
If take-two takes a loss on this game it could have a chilling effect on freedom of speech for years to come, and companies willingness to push the envelope.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
This whole thing is rather interesting. The Wii version is the one that really catches my interest because of what the controls "add" to the game. I was rather surprised at first when I saw what they were doing. While it fits well, it's rather visceral compared to just pushing a button so I wondered if they would have a tough time.
Nintendo banning an AO game doesn't surprise me. Sony banning it does surprise me some. But what all of this has really made me wonder is... does Microsoft have an anti-AO game policy? If Manhunt 2 was developed for the 360, would they be able to release it (problems with Target, Wal*Mart, etc selling it aside)?
The computer is really the only platform where this isn't a problem. If you look at the list of AO games, most of them are on the PC, even if you remove the "Virtual Jenna" type games. Since no-one can stop a game from being published on the PC (you can sell it mail order or download if you have to), this wouldn't be a problem.
Of course, Take-Two has put already had a target on their heads (unfairly). I can see the outrage over a game like this, seeing as how it makes GTA look tame. As adult as this is, I was really looking forward to reading the reviews of what the Wii controls added to it. There are previews out now, but previews are always positive so it's a bit hard to tell based on that. People called GTA a "murder simulator".. heh.
Porting consoles isn't easy. But maybe MS could agree to let them publish and get PR win with the mature crowd. But that would probably cause them problems with the family crowd they want.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
While I love Rockstar games as much as the next person, I don't see how they possibly thought they could get away with this game. It's almost as if they're are determined to go bust.
Hell no. Political Correctness(tm) was NEVER a slippery slop to censorship. Gosh. Those Chinese sure do suck for their Censorship(tm). We don't suck. We have REAL reasons!!!! I mean, Think About the Children(tm).
Un-frickin-believeable. For you purist-morons, yes, this was both governmental and economic censorship. My belief will always be that pornography is the line. That is to say, sexual contact and insinuated sexual contact when one or both sides' "stuff" is involved. And, it even has to be REAL for that. Not animated.
I am a parent. I am a parent to my kids and I take responsibility for what they see and experience. I have the power to control a heck of a lot of what they are exposed to and I exercise that power. Sucks for the parents who don't, but don't put that on me via government. I'll handle my own situation and you handle yours.
If stuff happens to be viewed or experienced by my kids out of my control "area", then we'll deal with it. But, my kids absolutely 100% won't be "damaged" because of it. Show me one person of us 6 billion who hasn't had a perfect go of it. I can only say that now after Paris Hilton got sent away, but before that, I was 99.999999% sure.
Moe
"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid." - Epictetus
Release it on the PC.
Deleted
The problem is that it's illegal for them to release it. Both Sony and Nintendo require that all gamees released on their platforms be approved by them (it's part of the contract a developer must sign to get a dev kit). In some countries it's even more illegal because selling an unrated game is prohibited.
All I really have to say is "Ha, Ha! That's what you get for developing for a proprietary platform".
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
If there was ever an argument for Mod Chips, this is it! Once I purchase a console it's mine, d@mn it! I should be able to play whatever games I purchase for it, and shouldn't need Sony's or Nintendo's blessing first. That's like buying a Mustang, and then finding that only Ford Brand Gasoline service station nozzles will fit the weird shape of my fuel filler tube.
I wonder if you could win an anti-trust suit over this? Imagine if your Dell PC would only run software resold through Dell stores. Where does it say on the outside of the PS3 box -- This unit only runs software licensed by Sony. Any other use of this equipment violates the Sony Playstation 3 License Agreement.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
You don't understand the "freedom of speech issue" about this game, because it falls on the dark side of YOUR morality line. What if someone saw your Quake or your Doom game in the same way that you presently see Manhunt 2? Would you still be so unconcerned with a decision to ban the Quake? Of course you would be outraged, and yet there would be someone else saying the ban is justified because Quake is a murder simulator.
Freedom of speech doesn't become an "issue" only when something you like is banned, it becomes an issue when the things you don't like are banned and precedence is made. When someone else is making the decision on what is appropriate and not appropriate for your viewing, you are living in a non-free society.
I'm not defending the game. It sounds gross to me, too, and I wouldn't even consider purchasing it. However, I defend people's RIGHT to purchase it. Whether this is a true censorship issue is questionable, because people purchasing PS or Wii know these systems will not play Adult Only content. It's just one more example why it's better to purchase only open standards.
The local library stocks subject matter that I find offensive, including material that project certain people as subhuman. I find this as offensive as child abuse dvds, but I do realize that unlike child abuse dvds no one was actually harmed in producing these movies. And I think that is the distinction we must make, this is why a movie depicting the rape of a child is not equivalent to a child porn video. As in the latter case an actual crime is being committed. Since these games do not require the recreation of actual scenes they deserve more leeway in their depictions, as no one is being harmed. The images projected in Manhunt 2 and other games are merely pictures, and not particularly realistic ones. There is no actual difference between Manhunt 2 where one slaughters oddly shaped representations of people and Space Invaders.
Woe be on to them, all who rise against poor people, shall perish in a the end. Buju Banton
If your British, let the goverment know, right here : http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/videogames/
England Prevails!
You can't use it period, at least so far. The DRM for this generation's consoles hasn't been effectively broken yet. It has been worked around from the piracy standpoint, but you still can't run unsigned code. Modchips don't help.
It's a shame that (almost) the entire console industry consists of closed systems (and this generation it looks increasingly complex to crack). I was hoping that this generation I'd be able to form part of the homebrew community, but it looks like it isn't going to happen anytime soon. Anyone willing to form an *open* team dedicated to opening up the Wii? I'm sure there are ways, but if either no one tries or those who do keep their findings to themselves, nothing gets done.
Actually it does have to do with politics, particularly with free speech. Manhunt 2 is being shelved because of an AO rating which some believe to be based more on politicals than actual content. So, in that sense, Politics is a more appropriate section than games. Just as if a studio were targetted with a controversial NC-17 rating and stopped distribution of the film as a result.
If I wanted to read about games, I wouldn't have set my preferences to hide all the stories.
Then don't read it. You are actually NOT udner any obligation to read every story that appears on your slashdot page. No, no, really, its true. You can choose to skip over a story.
You're constant misclassifications circumvent my preference.
You do realize that, based on your UID alone that there are 841,676 other users, right? And that most would find this to be an appropriate classification? In other words, slashdot as a whole is more important than your preferences.
You are a douche bag.
While that could well be true, based on the little interaction I've had with him, I'd doubt it.
I hope you die,
In hindsight, I bet you're thinking that this might be a bit harsh. If not, well, ironically enough, you are actually the target audience for Manhunt 2!
but barring that, I hope you stop foisting your obsession with video games on the clearly uninterested.
Based on the number of comments this and related stories have garnered, I'd have to say that the interested outweigh the uninterested.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
Here are the definitions of M and AO from the ESRB Ratings Guide:
"MATURE Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content and/or strong language."
"ADULTS ONLY Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity."
I find it hard to believe that this game could not be classified as an M rated game. Both games require you to be at least 17 years old (18 in the case of AO). I highly doubt this game has "graphic sexual content", so it all comes down to whether the violence is "intense violence", or "prolonged scenes of intense violence".
The rating system is really not very well thought out. There should be some kind of process to appeal the decision and have it re-reviewed by a different group.
Come on... IT'S A GAME! They need to lighten up. I probably wouldn't want my kids playing this game, but if it's rated M then that means that you have to be 17 to play it anyways. Hold the stores responsible for upholding that responsibility, just as movie theaters are responsible for upholding the movie ratings by not allowing minors in to see R rated movies.
And for all those articles that talk about the game not being for 'families'.... those people need to get a life. Nobody is trying to claim that 'Manhunt 2' is a 'family friendly' game. It's a game for adults, and it should be available for adults to purchase. I hate it when other people decide what is best for me.
What is everyone so upset about? Half of the comments on here are either anti-ESRB or anti-USA. Why?
Last I checked, the US hadn't banned the game. So there's no reason for that.
And the ESRB didn't ban it, either. The ESRB's website says a game gets an AO is it has "prolonged scenes of intense violence," and, from my understanding, if you "charge up" (presumably hold a button or something) for a kill, it will take longer to do (it will be more complex, or brutal). In other words, it will be PROLONGED.
If you have hostility for this game not being released, blame either Nintendo, Sony, or the countries that are banning it. The ESRB rated the game appropriately and were not directly involved in it not hitting shelves.
What if you are a video game distributor or a video game producer and you decide you don't want to be associated with this game? What if you are part of a ratings board and you decide the violence in the game warrants a high rating? Do any of these have the power to say and do the things they say and do? Should the ratings board give the game a lower rating just because of a silly claim that the game is fine art? Should game distributors be forced to sell games they don't want to sell? Should stores be forced to sell games they don't want to sell or games that will make customers exercise a free choice to shop elsewhere? Nothing in this instance has anything to do with censorship. It's all about organizations and companies making their own decisions in response to this game.
I love my sig.
Why do I have this weird feeling that, in the long rung, it will be released internationally? The extra publicity will make up for lack of UK sales (which will probably still be considerable via import). Maybe, they'll get around it in the UK with slightly different in game art (see Carmageddon or Fallout).
It's called showmanship. Foreign 'art' films have been benefiting from the mock outrage of the conservative British press in this way for years.
Michael Reed, freelance tech writer.
I'm surprised you people are so upset about Manhunt 2 being canned. Anyone remembers Thrill Kill? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrill_Kill ? Same old, same old... and I bet a lot of you people played it anyways. Anyone wants to bet when Manhunt 2 hits the internet, should it *really* not be published? You'll all be playing it by the end of this year, most likely.