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Microsoft to Simplify Downgrades From Vista to XP
castrox writes "Microsoft has noted that many corporate users want to run XP instead of Vista. They are now simplifying the downgrade process for top OEMs. Currently, all OEMs must call Microsoft whenever a downgrade is done. After the new procedure is put into place, OEMs may submit batches of keys to Microsoft online. According to the Microsoft blog on ZDNet, the 'downgrade software' will still need to be supplied by the end user. The deal is rather perplexing — it does not seem like you can convert the license since the only eligible versions for downgrading is Ultimate and Business. The company has more details available in a pdf document online."
...will probably be named:
Turbo Debuggerer
Solomon
"Twice half-assed makes an ass whole." --Solomon K. Chang
Because I'd bet that you'll still have the great benefit of paying the hugely inflated prices for Windows Vista (especially the ultimate version) rather than what the XP license used to cost.
Oh, the joys of working with Microsoft software.
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
This is a good start. Microsoft had to start somewhere in learning to be responsive to their customers.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
why don't corporations just install XP?
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Only Microsoft can make otherwise simple activities into tortorous affairs.
Why do the companies have to tell Microsoft everytime they "downgrade" a PC from Vista to XP? Does the company receive some sort of credit for being forced to buy an OS they don't want/need?
Why can't they just buy the PCs with XP already on them without having to uninstall Vista, then re-install XP, then beg for Microsoft's forgiveness, THEN apply all the hundreds of patches - each of which also requires a reboot, and then...
Is a huge reason we dread getting Vista here. Compatibility isn't too much of an issue, we have been doing preliminary testing and found a reasonable expectation with it to work with our software.
However, having to set up an activation server, have users log back in every 180 days... is just idiotic.
If we get audited, we get screwed anyway. So why make it so difficult?
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
For environmental reasons, Microsoft should continue development and support of Windows 2000 and XP. Older machines will keep running longer and so stay out of landfills, and they could eventually give these operating systems away free to benefit the penniless basement-dwellers of the world who keep typing "F1R5T P05T" at the start of every thread.
technical writing / development
I'd consider it an upgrade.
End transmission.
So if MS is letting businesses do this, can the average consumer call up and say "hey I'll mail you the original CD + key, send me back an XP disc + key"
I was under the impression that going from Vista to XP was an upgrade.
Athiesm is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Because as the new hardware arrives, drivers for XP will be scarce. This only matters on older corporate computers, not new ones.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
When will Microsoft be issuing an apology for Vista? "Yep, Vista is a turd. Our bad."
You can't use the word perplexing and simple to describe the same thing! A simple way to allow business PC buyers to downgrade is the OEM sells the computer with free dos (making sure the hardware is compatible with XP). There done! Microsoft does not need to get involve with the sale of the hardware. They can deal directly with the customer when it comes time to renew the licensing agreement.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
My friends tell me that what the summary reports is accurate:
This is true for home users. Your Vista license can not be used for XP, even if you simply upgraded. When you transfer your XP license to Vista, M$ won't give it back to you with their "Please let me use my OS" validation page. So, if you make the mistake of "upgrading" XP to Vista, you will have to buy XP again if you don't like Vista. Let's just say that people have not been happy with that and hope that M$ fixes it real soon.
Business users, I'm sure, get the usual double M$ tax. They pay the M$ tax when they buy the computer and they pay it again when they buy the OS and actual software, assurance plans and other nonsense.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I work for a university in the US -- this doesn't affect us one bit. No matter what the machines come with, we wipe the drive and drop our XP image to it (a lab/classroom image or a faculty image, depending on where the machine will end up).
.img file that is called by isolinux/syslinux from the UBCD4.0 custom disk I also created) to add the .DOS driver and PCI ID string so the NIC detection works properly.
When I build the image, any new models we receive have their drivers added to the image with this as part of our sysprep. We use Symantec Ghost Solution Suite 2.x (we use the DOS based DeployCenter to actually drop the image from our central imaging server to the workstations). I also have to modify the DeployCenter boot floppy (stored as an
I kinda went off topic there, however, the point is we have a MS Campus agreement for ~2000 seats (we are somewhere around 1600 to 1800, actually) for XP/Office2003/Vista/Office2007, so no matter what the computers we order come with, it's wiped and replaced with our own image (without even allowing the OEM drive to do its first boot).
The only people I see this affecting are businesses that use the machines as they come in, loading software on a one-by-one basis. It won't affect LARGE businesses (or those in the same situation as the university).
bork bork bork!
You *can* downgrade to XP. But you can only downgrade to *XP Professional*, and you must have purchased either Vista Ultimate or Vista Business in the first place. So if you buy Vista Home or Vista Home Premium, you are stuck with them. No downgrades for you.
That's what I've heard. Another option is to simply buy a retail copy of XP -$ouch$- but good luck getting all the drivers you need for a new laptop.
Oh the Joy of the M$ Treadmill.
Why do I like to use "$" in my messages? Because I like what special characters might be doing to troll scripts. /cd C:; /deltree/; $troll="shit_head"; echo $troll; echo "ha ha"
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
hurts again.
Actually, if you read the PDF, it says this:
It's the Vista Business and Vista Ultimate vesions. Get it right, Slashdot.
"Microsoft doesn't view the popularity of user requests to downgrade from Vista to XP as a ding against Vista," Ball emphasized.
When his guests vomit, he probably doesn't view it a ding against the meal he's served them.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Downgrade from Vista to XP? Naw, Upgrade to Ubuntu.
Free Software means never having to tell anyone what you want to run on your computers...
Dell will still sell and pre-load XP OEM while you can buy OEM cds from Ebuyer. Plus any large organisation worth their salt will have a multi seat agreement with Microsoft. It's not an issue for anybody if you actually think about what you're buying and what you are going to use on it.
People should be switching to Linux, not trying to decide which low quality MS OS they want to use. MS should use more time improving their software, instead of infecting it with DRM/activation/WGA garbage.
I knew Vista might be a bust when Bill Gates told John Stewart on the Daily Show that it would allow parents to more readily monitor their children's onlilne activities. If this was the best sales-point that the marketers at MS could come up with, it wasn't really offering much to the home user. Now it seems it isn't doing much for the pros either. Well, memory of Edsel has been fading, time for something more 21st Century. Phrank
Quoting oneself is not considered researcing a reliable source of information.
Quoting Joe U is even less reputable but that's not the point. Referencing yourself is labor saving. Thanks Joe!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I would call switching to XP from Vista an upgrade. But why stop there ... help them move all the way to Linux!
So, I've posted this a few times, whenever any of these Vista fumble stories comes out, whether there is actually any type of widespread verdict about the success of Vista (on any level, I know that few people are claiming it is a great technical accomplishment), but no one has really answered yet.
So are these stories about people preferring XP over Vista a substantial thing, or are they just scattered anecdotes? What is the overall picture?
Hopefully I didn't put any [] around my words.
I was bored and actually READ the licensing information (well, most of it) when I first booted my new Toshiba laptop that came with Vista Home Premium.
A section in that document specifically stated that THIS license may also be used to run a previous version of Windows, and I think it specifically stated Windows XP and Windows 2000.
I remember thinking "Well, that's nice to know," but so far have not run into any major Vista problems to worry about.
An Anonymous Astroturfer advises:
Go to the manufacturer's website, find your laptop, and download the drivers.
Which sounds good, but is wrong when the Laptop and all it's non free drivers are Vista only. The point of these abusive practices is to force people to buy Vista. XP and all the software you own are going to meet the same end as w2k, 98, 95, Win31 and so on and so forth back to DOS 1.0 - dumped and wasted.
I win either way. If people buy Vista, the curbs will fill up computers that are nicer than my newest machines. If they don't, M$ dies and me and everyone else wins.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
They will be grabbing copies of Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSuSe, or any of a myriad of operating systems superior to (and far cheaper than) Vista -or- XP.
So in other words, corporations can't downgrade... Home Basic and Home Premium? Because that's all that's left.
So what is perplexing? That MS doesn't expect businesses to use versions of Vista which cannot connect to an Active Directory, and are thus of no value to business customers?
Yes, because the person who continiously rants about the M$ this and the M$ that should always be considered reliable and reputable. You sound like a 4 year old having a tantrum.
Did Bill Gates beat you up when you were a kid or something?
An AC says:
Corperations that have a volume license and buy a dell witha license sticker on it are incredibly stupid. They are intentionally paying Microsoft twice on every laptop and PC they buy. The director of IT should be fired for such wasteful purchasing practices.
It's not stupid if you don't have a choice because the vendor won't sell without the M$ tax. Companies will sell discarded boxes to their employees at "cost" and the price is around $200. It includes no software, but that does not mean that $40 of that $200 cost was not originally M$ tax - a fee paid per each computer sold regardless of OS installed. Nor does it mean the Vendor did anything more than pull the computer out of inventory, complete with home use software and a license sticker on it. Each computer that big dumb companies buy have to be wiped and loaded with the corporate licensed software.
You are right about how wasteful this is, but it's not always the fault of the person making the purchases and it's never the fault of the poor person who gets to do all the actual work.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The Vista downgrade process is horrible beyond words and we've had cases where it would of have been cheaper to buy an oem XP than pay for our time.
What the current process is - and I have a "manager's manager" (a guy somewhere in North America) on tape with this - is that you install using any legit media and a legit xp cd key.
Then, when the PC fails activation (which it will, if you've used the same key a few times), you call in, do the song and dance with the crap voice recognition system, talk to an Indian and hopefully* get an activation key.
This method will no doubt cause us problems in the future with genuine advantage, etc, but there isn't a damn thing we can do about that.
*I say hopefully because Microsoft reps don't know what the hell they are talking about and different call centers will get you different answers / route you to the wrong people. We've had a call where 2 managers were yelling at each other in Indian in a very heated argument while we sat wondering "wtf". Getting a key normally takes about 2 hours although we've got them in as little as 5 minutes after we've passed through the pointless activation voice system. The process is generally quicker now, although we dread calling. Oh... and we've gotten completely conflicting information - although MS is not supposed to generate xp keys, I've had several keys generated for me (if you bully the female Filipino csrs, they generally do stuff they apparently shouldn't)
Of course, for customer satisfaction, we've written most of this off - it totals in the thousands of dollars at this point. We've been pleading with Microsoft (we have system builder status, but we usually act as resellers) to get us a better process, because this is a waste of our time, but nothing has happened. False promises, missed deadlines, et al. OEMs were supposed to have a policy in place months ago, but as far as I know, not a single large company (from Seanix to HP to Dell and Lenovo) has the capability for their phone technicians to generate an XP cd key to solve this problem.
We're especially hit hard because we mainly deal with small businesses - usually under 75 people (we're in a fairly small town, so those businesses have slowly grown to get that "big"). If our customers were bigger, they'd use volume license agreements. As it is, they don't and we can't exactly say "fuck it" and install a corp edition w/ a wga crack which is what I've heard some of the smaller companies around here are doing.
Furthermore, I worked for Vista support for a few weeks during the rollout (if anyone wants a shitty, low paying job, head up to Sutherland in Vernon, BC) nobody knew what they were doing and we got conflicting information during training. When we were sitting on the line during the downgrade process, none of the indian csrs knew what was going on.
From what I understand from my contacts there, nothing has changed.
I'm assuming that Microsoft can reach all their outsourced call centers and provide them with the correct information (they have a centralized call logging application).
The fact is that that they have had several months and they haven't. CSRs are still giving out bad info and managers still have no idea what the hell the process is.
I don't want to say that Microsoft is intentionally making the process difficult, but I can't see any other explanation except for mass incompetence.
I know for sure that we haven't heard the good news or the new process yet... Maybe people in Canuckistan have to wait a bit for the news to filter down...
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
Has hell frozen over ?
:)
Details in a _PDF_? From microsoft.com ??
Cool
I propose that Slashdot add a category for 'downgrade'. They have one for 'upgrade' so why not 'downgrade'?
Maybe the ability to downgrade to XP is the killer app that will drive people to the top tier Enterprise and Ultimate Versions of Vista?
Please tell me that edus's aren't double taxed. When you get a new computer with an unused Vista on it, the price of that computer *did not* include a Vista license, right? Otherwise you are paying twice, once for the site license, and then every time you buy a new computer, which is totally undeserved profit. /IF that's true, what i wrote above, i can see why you have "no problems". Very nice of M$ to accommodate. //If it's not, thanks for making that clear for the crowd - it'd be about honorable.
CS majors know the time/space tradeoff, but they never get taught the 3rd, crucial, tradeoff of the set: comprehension!
This funny thing happened to me the other day: one of my custumers had bought her new PC in the US, as she came back here, she realised she doesn't speak english good enough, and wanted to use an spanish tranlation (she used Windows Vista Home Basic). So, I called MS support: you cannot change your Vista english license for a new one in spanish, you need to upgrade to Windows Vista Ultimate (which has international support). Since in my country, upgrading for the "full" Ultimate version is more expensive than just buying a new Hombe Basic license, and since by installing a new Home Basic spanish version would destroy all of her settings, she instead installed her own copy of Win XP. I can't tell if it's a legal copy thought, or maybe an OEM version. Anyways, kiss my ass M$, you deserve to be peed upon.
You are obviously a Mac user. Only Apple charges for point release updates, as your yearly "Apple Tax" can attest to. Unlike Windows users who can get the free service pack and laugh at you Apple users the way to the bank.
Is that Canada since the Harper government was elected?
Q: Is the huge demand for XP at the same price as Vista an indication that there is something wrong with your new product?
A: No, we just have to show the OEMs and system builders that it's value-adding features that're scaring the end-users away.
Er, what, now?
The important thing is that you keep sending Microsoft money. Why don't corporations currently running XP just send money to Microsoft and skip all this paperwork?
--------------
My friend$ tell me that what the $ummary report$ i$ accurate:
Thi$ i$ true for home u$er$. Your Vi$ta licen$e can not be u$ed for XP, even if you $imply upgraded. When you tran$fer your XP licen$e to Vi$ta, MS won't give it back to you with their "Plea$e let me u$e my O$" validation page. $o, if you make the mi$take of "upgrading" XP to Vi$ta, you will have to buy XP again if you don't like Vi$ta. Let'$ ju$t $ay that people have not been happy with that and hope that MS fixe$ it real $oon.
Bu$ine$$ u$er$, I'm $ure, get the u$ual double MS tax. They pay the MS tax when they buy the computer and they pay it again when they buy the O$ and actual $oftware, a$$urance plan$ and other non$en$e.
How about this? When you buy a PC with either Vista Home version, call the manufacturer and say you cannot accept the terms of the EULA and want to return Vista for a refund. Use the refund to buy XP home.
That would work great, except you will have to spend $100 to get XP, which won't have drivers for your shiny new laptop. With M$, your options are, deal with a buggy Vista install or use preinstalled 7 year old software or don't buy a new computer.
The only way to know for sure if your hardware is going to work though Bill Gates' sabotage, is to find a GNU/Linux vendor or try it out yourself. Bring a live CD to a local computer store and boot it. If it works, buy the laptop. If not, keep looking.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Congratulations. May I recommend you call it something like "software insurance"?
Help stamp out iliturcy.
There's only one Lappy that came with Vista. Luckily I had a spare XP license to go with it (yeah we run a very small business :P).
For a certain company it would be sour grades. :p
Carbon based humanoid in training.
Someone who knows way too much about current big dumb company Windoze licensing says:
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Even if you pirate it, you do them a nice favor. The more people grow up strongly accustomed to their operating system, the more paying customers they have when these people found businesses later and deploy Windows because that's all they know.
Want to hear the voice of GOD? cat