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Sony Develops Fluid-Filled Bags For Hard Disks

Posted by kdawson on from the putting-on-the-brakes dept.

MsManhattan writes "Sony has filed for a US patent on a liquid-filled airbag that cushions hard disks from heavy shocks in portable electronic devices. 'The liquid used could be water or silicon oil,' and 'the electronics would of course be in a liquid-tight case.' Sony expects to use the technology in mobile devices such as cameras, media players, smartphones, and laptops." The article mentions a clever approach Sony has come up with to handle shocks of varying intensity.

30 of 144 comments (clear)

  1. Solid state by BWJones · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I expect solid state storage to make redundant the need for liquid cushioning for hard drives and we won't be dealing with this cushioning problem for long. Already there have been a number of incidents where solid state memory is proving far more resistant to physical damage (shock and water immersion) than "rotational media" and with plummeting costs, consumers will have access to far more solid state media in the very near future anyway. Hey the people that are being really hard on their equipment are going with solid state storage, so why should not the rest of us for our iPods, laptops and iPhones?

    Besides, I just don't know about fluid filled electronics. I've played around with liquid cooling in the past and have never been able to come up with a reliable (read: long term=years) solution that does not leak. We run our systems 24/7 and I thought that perhaps Apple had come up with a decent solution for liquid cooling on their older G5 towers, but we currently have a dual G5 in the shop that had managed to pee all over itself. Needless to say, that is a system that is awaiting a part from IBM and is down, not doing anything productive. Apple had the right idea in dumping the IBM and their liquid cooling necessity and I think that for the time being, I'll avoid drives bathed in liquid as well... Especially given that the articles focus is for equipment that receives more physical impacts than a desktop machine.

    P.S.... Not sure why this was posted under YRO...

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    1. Re:Solid state by HockeyPuck · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I put a lot more "wear and tear" on my running shoes which have a gel in the sole. In the 15 years I've been running, I've never had gel leak.

    2. Re:Solid state by BWJones · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I put a lot more "wear and tear" on my running shoes which have a gel in the sole. In the 15 years I've been running, I've never had gel leak.

      Yeah, but that gel is in an absolutely sealed envelope. Nothing (wires) needs to get in or out, whereas with a hard drive, unless you are powering by induction and have a wireless (radio or optical) way of transmitting data, you need wires to penetrate the envelope. *That* is where failure occurs.

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    3. Re:Solid state by russ1337 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Panasonic have had a gel 'bag' protecting their hard-drives in their Toughbooks for some time. Surely they've suitably protected their IP.

      I even managed to find a picture of one on Ebay

      FTA: Why is it called an "air bag" if it is filled with liquid?

    4. Re:Solid state by Iron+Condor · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't know about fanfic, but I've gel-mounted HDDs since the middle nineties. This is entirely common in the aerospace industry. As a matter of fact, try running "hard disk gel mount" (without the quotes) through google one of these days for a long list of patents already granted for this idea.

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    5. Re:Solid state by cowscows · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think a system like the article is describing could also create some interesting challenges in regards to cooling as well. If you're basically wrapping hardware in a bag, then you need to create some way of getting the heat out. Perhaps the liquid filled bag itself could act as a sort of heat sink, but it seems like that would be quite a challenge to work out, finding the proper liquid/bag materials that absorb impacts properly and transmit heat well. Plus this system sounds like it involves the liquid moving around, which means that if the liquid plays an important part in dealing with the heat, you have to account for the amount of liquid in a particular place changing.

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    6. Re:Solid state by suv4x4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, but that gel is in an absolutely sealed envelope. Nothing (wires) needs to get in or out, whereas with a hard drive, unless you are powering by induction and have a wireless (radio or optical) way of transmitting data, you need wires to penetrate the envelope. *That* is where failure occurs.

      Well, what a stupid theory.

      I could take it further though. How did the liquid get into the envelope? It had to penetrate the envelope!

      Now spend few minutes thinking how you could shape a tightly sealed envelope with liquid around a disk, and leave a hole for cables without using ice-pick to puncture it. Come on, it's not hard.

    7. Re:Solid state by BWJones · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, what a stupid theory.

      You don't have to resort to being an ass here...

      I could take it further though. How did the liquid get into the envelope? It had to penetrate the envelope!

      But then you can seal it with no need for "ports" to be maintained which as any engineer who deals with these sorts of problems will tell you, *are* failure points. Thus the whole industry of gaskets, seals etc...etc...etc... My point is that unless the benefits greatly outweigh the costs/hassle of dealing with liquids in electronic environments, I'll choose to have my electronics in good 'ol air, thanks very much. And with solid state.... why should we bother?

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    8. Re:Solid state by nwbvt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was just thinking that (I actually still have one of those), but according to TFA, there is a lot more to it than the /. summary (as usual).

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    9. Re:Solid state by hack++slash · · Score: 2, Informative

      The main reason gel filled cushions have been invented is the cost per gigabyte of solid state memory is astronomical compared to harddrives.

      Unscientific quick example, 160Gb 2.5" IDE harddrive = £70, 16Gb 2.5" IDE flash memory harddrive = £280. 10x the space for 1/4 the price.

      I know the price of flash memory storage is falling, but in comparison the price of harddrive storage is plummeting.

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    10. Re:Solid state by Myself · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yup, had one of those in my CF-25 six or seven years ago. I read TFA and don't see anything novel or non-obvious about Sony's claims. Le sigh.

    11. Re:Solid state by nwbvt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "In the case with hard drives, the hard drives are not floating in water themselves, they are surrounded by a sealed packet of liquid."

      No, they actually are in the liquid themselves (well, technically they have a waterproof shell, but that is in the liquid solution). This is a patent for a system in which the hard drive is suspended in liquid (and no, its not simply filling a baggie with water and dropping the device in it, its a bit more complicated that that). Yes, the /. summary did not exactly make that clear, but if you think about it, simply using a liquid filled cushion wouldn't be even remotely patentable (there is plenty of prior art out there for that).

      --
      Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
  2. Liquid-filled airbag? by TeknoHog · · Score: 5, Funny

    Now that's logical!

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    1. Re:Liquid-filled airbag? by Dogtanian · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now that's logical! That's what I thought; but perhaps the air they use is going to be very, *very* cold.
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    2. Re:Liquid-filled airbag? by Stonent1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      God beat them to it, our brains are suspended in liquid.

  3. Flash memory? by PsEvo · · Score: 2

    "Sony expects to use the technology in mobile devices such as cameras, media players, smartphones, and laptops." Camera's have HDD's? O.o Surely a cushion of water wouldn't protect something like a cell phone hitting the concrete.

    --
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    1. Re:Flash memory? by OldeTimeGeek · · Score: 2, Informative
      Camera's have HDD's?

      If the camera is carrying one of the several models of microdrives, they do. I've always stuck with CF because of write times and storage density, but I know a couple of photographers who like 'em.

      Surely a cushion of water wouldn't protect something like a cell phone hitting the concrete

      I would assume that the liquid would be considerably more viscous than plain water.

    2. Re:Flash memory? by CaptainPatent · · Score: 4, Informative

      Camera's have HDD's? most of the time no, but almost every patent application attempts to patent the broadest possible terms so in this case if anyone ever (in the next 20 years) decides to incorporate a hdd and wants to add a shock absorber, they have to go through Sony. That is ignoring the fact that this is not patentable, but it's the intent.

      Surely a cushion of water wouldn't protect something like a cell phone hitting the concrete You may be surprised at the amount of cushioning something like this could provide. If the normal deceleration of the hard drive without an insert occurs in 5ms (let's say metal to concrete.) With something like the insert, I would expect the full deceleration to occur over times like a quarter to even a half a second. Just in doing so you have reduced the amount of force induced on the drive by a factor of 50-100.
      To demonstrate this in the real world, My last cellphone survived a fall of 70 feet onto a rock bed just because it hit on part of the plastic case that wasn't connected to the motherboard. If it would have hit on the bottom metal connector, it would have had very little or no chance. If instead there were a thin .5 inch layer of gel or liquid in a bag on the ground, I doubt it would have even received the chip that it did.
      --
      Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
  4. OO? by youthoftoday · · Score: 4, Funny

    But will it hold linux?

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    -1 not first post
  5. My girlfriend's cell phone by incog8723 · · Score: 4, Funny

    When I throw her cell phone against the pavement, I expect it to break.

    Sigh.

    1. Re:My girlfriend's cell phone by andrewd18 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Breaking her phone is weak, not to mention lame.
      Woah, both weak AND lame! I bet he's just reeling from THAT verbal assault.
    2. Re:My girlfriend's cell phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe you just throw like a girl.

  6. Kiff by prestonmichaelh · · Score: 5, Funny

    Actually, I don't have bones. I am supported by a system of fluid-filled bladders...

  7. Also An Anti-Piracy Measure by CheeseburgerBrown · · Score: 4, Funny

    Rumours are surfacing that Sony has also been employing similar fluid sacs to absorb the blow of piracy. These fluid sacs are called "people" and, by inserting them into a judicial system, they can be induced release quantities of money.

    --
    These stories are free but worth money.
  8. There is already stuff like this out there. by lhaeh · · Score: 3, Interesting
    My 10 year old Panasonic Toughbook had a gel casing for the hard drive. I like that solution better since there is no potential for leaks. Even if the fluid was nonconductive you would still have to replace it.

    I hate to think what airlines would think of all this evil liquid being allowed on board as well.

  9. So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Who cares. Remember the Sony DRM? They are evil. Sony sucks and Nintendo is way better. I bet this fluid filled bag has DRM, too. I for one would prefer not to have Sony DRM on my computer, so I will not be purchasing this product. DRM. Hopefully Nintendo will come up with an even more innovative product soon, like using rubber to protect the hard drive.

  10. I was thinking... by Azuma+Hazuki · · Score: 5, Funny

    Since this is Sony, are they going to call these "Douche Bags?"

    Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all night.

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  11. Caramilk Secret by camperdave · · Score: 2, Funny

    Maybe they got the liquid into the envelope the same way that they get the soft flowing caramel inside the chocolaty pockets of the Caramilk bar.

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  12. Re:why... by bcmm · · Score: 2, Informative

    Cause it mentioned Sony ;)

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  13. Because it's about patents by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because it's about patents, and some people have an allergy to that word as a matter of principle. You know, everyone should invest billions in research (considering that IIRC for medicine it costs over 100 million just to get it tested and approved, and for other high tech stuff research costs are even ridiculously higher) and then let everyone undercut their prices (it's easier to price your stuff cheaper when you don't any research costs to recoup.) People should just be proud to go bankrupt to further technology, obviously.

    Also, patents have this nice advantage for FUD and clueless crusading: if you don't actually read it, and conveniently skip (or don't understand) around the parts that are new, everything can be made to sound like a rehash of something that already exists. Sealed hard drive _in_ liquid bag? Well, just ignore the "hard drive in liquid" part and it just sounds like a sealed gel bag. New ceramics insulation for a capacitor? Ignore the new material and manufacturing technology, and it's just a capacitor. New antibiotic? Ignore the "new" part, and the research which went into finding it, and it's just an antibiotic, those things existed for ages. Why the heck are people allowed to patent those?

    (For bonus points, for medicine also add (A) the standard conspiracy theories that the Russians/Chinese/Tibetan-monks/etc discovered some wonder drug that heals everything, regardless of being gram-positive bacteria, gram-negative bacteria, virus, fungus, physical damage, allergy or mutation of one's own cells, and the evil pharma companies hide that so they can sell such new antibiotics, and (B) how they're evil if they try to recoup those research costs instead of giving the medicine for free to poor kids in Africa, and to everyone else who needs it, for that matter.)

    At any rate, here's why it's about "your rights": because some people think they have a sacred right to make a living out of someone else's research. They shouldn't ever have to research anything or have a single original thought in their whole life. They should just wait until someone comes up with a new idea, then make a living copying it. If some law prevents them from doing that, it's obviously a violation of their very human rights.

    I'm a bit at a loss as to the "Online" part, but I guess it's because there was no "your rights offline" category.

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