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Motorists Sue Over 'Hot' Fuel
i_like_spam writes "Motorists in 13 states have filed lawsuits against big oil companies and gas retailers alleging unfair pricing practices related to fuel-pumping temperatures. From an industry standard developed in the 1920's, the price for a gallon of gasoline is based on the density of the fuel at a temperature of 60 degress F. A gallon of gas at higher temperatures is less dense, and therefore contains less energy. The lawsuits claim additional costs of 3 to 9 cents per gallon without temperature adjustments. The fuel industry claims that the costs of installing temerature-adjustment sensors on every pump would be prohibitively high. These sensors are already installed in Canada, however, where the colder temperatures favor consumers."
A couple of interesting tidbits from the testimony: In some states, compensating for the temperature of refined petroleum products being sold has taken place at the wholesale level -- but not at the retail gas pump (diesel included) or for deliveries of home heating fuel. Some states prohibit temperature compensation at retail and some states prohibit temperature compensation anywhere in the petroleum distribution chain. Most states require temperature compensation for certain products, such as for liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) sales, or propane for home heating, but not necessarily for other products. A review of the application of temperature compensation to petroleum volume data showing average fuel storage tank temperatures in the U.S. and possible effect on petroleum measurement. The data on storage tank temperatures, collected by a manufacturer of tank monitoring equipment, over a two year period indicated that the average temperature of product in below ground tanks across the U.S. was 64.7 degrees Fahrenheit.
This site give the coefficient of thermal expaansion for gasoline: http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~vawter/PhysicsNet/Topics/Th ermal/ThermExpan.html. For a
20 C increase in temperature I get about a 2% increase in volume or a 6 cent difference for $3/gal gas. So the article seems about right. s -selling-solar.html
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Most states and even some cities have a 'department of weights and measures' that have a pretty good legal authority to conduct all sorts of testing in regards to the measurement of things sold. I looked up the local ordinances on mine, and they had some fairly nasty teeth to them.
These are exactly the people who you want to get involved to investigate this kind of thing.
Not to be picky or anything, but the tanks often aren't 10+ feet under ground. Not at the retailer, anyway.
I know this because it was once part of my job to manually measure the levels of these tanks. The dip-stick was at most 6 feet long at the sites I worked.
In my experience the tank can be as little as 2 feet below the often hot concrete surface.
The LA times had an article on this two months ago. The most interesting part of the article may be where the refer to a California study that found the average underground monthly average tank temp ranged from 64 to 83 degrees F. At 83 degrees F, that's about a 1.2% volumetric change from 60 degrees.
Is 1% worth a law suit? Depends on your perspective I guess . . .
err no it wouldn't, the offical price is per gallon at 60f. the pumps need a sensor to read the current temp and adjust the charge at the pump.
this what they are kicking about, because they are ripping people off quite a lot in hot area's, and they don't want the gravy train to end.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
... And I say with with vehement disgust in lieu of stronger words. I like stronger words, but those to whom they'd refer have their heads someplace where they couldn't hear them clearly, so I'll save them.
) . The expansion of the small portion of gas above the riser will be negative for more people than not, more of the time than not. It'll be a contraction.
When I was crawling in and out of underground fuel tanks in a space suit (not really, but we called it that; the air supply was via a hose, not an air tank) I picked up more than a couple pertinent details. And after reading this article I went and looked up a couple more.
The underground temperature at the depth most tanks must reside is between 54 and 58 F depending on location (and varying 1 to 2 F over a year), not 64.7. That figured was arrived at by a company that sells the same kind of equipment this article talks about. They have a vested interest in the data. Not stated is when the measurement is taken -- just after a 5,000 gal. tanker dumps its load into a 20,000 gal tank?
Tanks need to be more than just under the surface. They need to have enough ground covering them so they don't float up out of the ground through bouyancy. Many are tied down by steel straps to a concrete cradle for this reason, but the depth underground is a fail-safe and still adhered to. They also have to be well underground anywhere a vehicle has to drive over them, or a concrete apron will cover them, so the weight above will be spread out and not collapse the tank. Thus, they're almost invariably below the level where variations will be more than a degree or two.
The average annual temperature temperature where I am, Dallas-Fort Worth, is 64.5 F. The expansion of gasoline from 60 to 64.5 is ~0.3% (0.00069 per degree F; diesel is less, 0.00050 per). The amount of gas above the ground in a piping and pump system is the only part of a fill up that'll be affected by air temperature, and then only if it sits long enough to equalize. The volume involved is from 0.5 to 1.5 gallons depending on distance from riser and style of pump+hose. The rest of what's pumped will come right from underground and will be at or less than 60 F.
If this passes, the average US driver will lose the benefit they're already getting due to the average temperature being less than 60 F. The average temperature from 1900 to 2000 is less than 60 over almost all the US (according to plots from data at NOAA's Earth Systems Research Lab http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/USclimate/USclimdivs.html
They'll also pay even more because they'll foot the bill for these devices and their installation; the big oil producers will just plow these costs into the price, and it'll never be noticed, because they can raise the price 10 times that amount, then drop it 9 of that 10, and people will think the price is so close to what it started at that they won't think about it twice.
I had more than a passing familiarity with the issue. Besides going into tanks to inspect them, I also did the annual volumetric testing of gas pumps. I had to apply the correction factor. Where I was, the upper peninsula of Michigan, the average air temperature was very much less than 60. It was 32 F when I moved there in 1976. However, we applied the correction, or rather tried to, based on measuring the temperature of the fuel in the testing can. There was a thermometer built into the glass tube on the side of the can's neck where we also measured the gas level in 0.1 in^3 increments (one part on over 10,000 for the 5 gallon testing can). The temperature was never, as far as I can recall, ever outside the 50s F range.
I'd like to hear from someone up in the Great White as to exactly why they have those temperature sensing devices installed. Whose idea was it, the gas companies' or the peoples'? The article(s; I've looked at several elsewhere) seems to imply the former, but I can't find anything explicit on it.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Spoken like somebody who has never been in a basement.
The planet is a pretty good heat sink, and insulator.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
The Australian CSIRO studied this problem about 10 years ago, at a cost of around $3million AU.
:)
.. so the commercial dealings between retailers and oil companies already take this into account.
.. but really, there is a lot of good science and logic and economics in the way of that sort of law being introduced here. Anyway - Here is to hoping that they defy logic and introduce such a law in Oz !!
(The paper with the results can be found here
http://www.aip.com.au/issues/temperature.htm
"On the basis of the CSIRO study, Federal and State Consumer Affairs Ministers decided in 1996 that the costs, both capital and ongoing, of temperature correction outweighed any potential benefits.
The extra costs involved in temperature correction would put additional upward pressure on petrol prices.
All the oil companies have in place procedures for addressing claims of fuel losses by service station operators."
However, this was based on adding temp compensation equipment to the price of each fuel bowser, which at the time cost around $2000 US to add to each fuel bowser. (A fuel bowser typically costs around $10000-20000 each), and based on the price of petrol in 1996 terms.
Given the dramatic increases in the cost of fuel, AND the newer (cheaper) technology available in fuel metering -- we might see this whole situation be reviewed in Australia, especially if this lawsuit grows legs and takes off in the US.
As it stands, petrol stations and fuel deliveries in Oz are already heavily regulated to take temperature into account whenever fuel is loaded from a road tanker into a petrol station tank
Disclaimer: My major customer is an Australian linux-loving company that makes fuel bowsers and all the electro-techno stuff that connects to them. IF a new law was introduced here that suddenly demanded Temp Compensation inside each fuel bowser, then we would all become insanely rich overnight, at the expense of the average joe consumer who would pay WAY MORE at the pump
I think that Alaska and Hawaii have regulations in place that require temp compensation metering devices in fuel bowsers though.
Hey people... we're talking THE OIL COMPANIES... YES?!!!
I mean this isn't brain surgery... these are the same folks that just this year charged U.S. Citizens record gasoline prices nation wide, even though global pressure was actually down, price per barrel was down, and surplus stocks of gasoline were heading for a high (i.e. Their not even bothering to make excuses any more... they're just gonna charge us whatever they bloody well feel like... screw supply and demand and if you don't like it their good buddy the President will try to ramrod another bill through DC giving them another 20 or 30 billion more of your tax dollars for an encore!)
It's like getting pissed off at your rude neighbor because his dog uses your yard as a toilet. You have two choices. You can fume in impotent rage, obsessed by your neighbors lack of consideration and responsibility... or you can call animal control, and quietly laugh to yourself as your neighbor has to put a sizey chunk of change down to cover Spot's neutering, immunization, and getting sprung from animal sing sing. Your choice, your problem or theirs. Notice which one makes a difference.
Oil companies are a business. Make it really expensive for them to be cheesey, politico buying, scum sucking, dirty rotten, cheating pigs, and they'll stop. No profit. As long as we in this country worship at the altar of the almighty dollar, and sell our government to the highest bidder, expect no different. Again, your choice... always has been, always will be.
Like is said... not brain surgery.I can tell you we received the "correction" and it went both ways. We'd break about even spring/fall (very little correction)with summer/winter( making a little more in summer vs. winter) giving us an small overall gain. For the whole year it was on the order of about $.005 US/gallon. Our market would have have adjusted retail prices to compensate had we not received the correction. When one makes 5 cents per gallon 1/2 cent can be the difference between staying in business or not. This is a non issue.
Steve
If he really thinks we're the Devil, then let's send him to Hell.
And at a high volume filling ststion (where fuel is delivered at least once daily), those insulated tanks will do a good job of keeping the fuel at the temperature THAT IT WAS DELIVERED AT, rather than the more or less constant 60 degree underground temperature.
That fuel was most likely stored in an ABOVE GROUND tank at the depot, then driven to the station in an uninsulated tanker truck. It could be quite a bit warmer than 60F by the time it gets into the storage tank at the filling station.
Exactly why would they require insulated underground storage tanks for gasoline, anyway? Unless the "insulation" is just a byproduct of double-wall construction to prevent leaks, it would seem that the stations are TRYING to keep the fuel warm for some reason, no?
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Homeowner here. I regularly load garden supplies into my Mazda Protege or my wife's Pontiac Vibe. I also haul 12' pieces of lumber and furniture in these vehicles. They're a lot more capable than most people think. There have been two occasions in the past two years where I needed to haul something that wouldn't fit in either of them, so I rented a truck. Seems to make a lot more sense than owning a truck just for those couple times where it's actually useful and paying hundreds of dollars more for gas.
My dad owns a 14' sailboat that he tows with a VW Passat Wagon with a 1.8L turbocharged engine.
A long time ago there were these things called station wagons and minivans. They were capable of doing all these things and still managed to get over 25mpg. Really, the only reason you don't see more of them is the stigma of parenthood. They're not seen as "hip." Most people who own SUVs could get by with one of these vehicles because the only real difference is that in most cases they lack four wheel drive. In fact, I remember my wife watching an old Lucille Ball movie where she and Desi were towing a huge Airstream trailer behind their convertible!
They might think they know their needs, but if they sat down and looked at what they used their vehicles for they would probably find they could downsize without losing any functional capability.
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
Everyone keeps mentioning how the underground tanks insulate the fuel well... Why do they bother with temperature correction in Canada then? Because it is in big Oil's favour.
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