Slashdot Mirror
Both Sides of the PS3 Price Cut Rumor
So here's the deal: Kotaku has a flier for an upcoming Circuit City deal on the PlayStation 3, putting the price at $499. There's some confusion about whether this is just a sale from Circuit City, or an actual price drop from Sony. Next Generation has Sony saying 'no', indicating that this isn't a sign of an across-the-board price cut. Meanwhile, GameDaily says 'yes', with sources in the retail industry indicating this is the price adjustment we've heard coming for a while now. "As it turns out, a merchandising manager (who wished to remain anonymous) at one of the world's biggest retailers has confirmed to GameDaily BIZ that the price drop is indeed retail-wide and it's scheduled to take place on July 12, although the first wave of ads to promote the PS3's new price won't kick in until Sunday, July 15. Many analysts have speculated that Sony would drop the price on the expensive console this year, and some even predicted that it could happen this summer. It's starting to look like they were right. We're sure to find out much more next week when Sony holds its press conference at E3." Luckily we won't have to wait long to see what's the real story here.
...zzz...Is it less than $200 yet? No?...zzz...
Still way more than I will pay for bare bones console.
Sadly, I could probably double the performance of my PC for that price.
I really might consider buying at that price, if only for the BluRay. Hell, I paid $1000 for my DVD player!!! I think I can pay $500 for a BluRay player and a console in one.
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Really? Want to buy another one? In fact, I think I can get you all the DVD players you want at that price...
I bought a Wii and a DS:Lite on a whim, but $500 is simply too much. I'll consider it when it is around $300.
This and the 5 free blu-ray discs promotion will be happening simultaneously. If they promote both aggressively, I can imagine sales jumping quite a bit.
Then again, Sony will probably just release an ad with a monkey in a diaper and not mention anything relevant at all.
Now Nintendo will only be beating them 5 to 1 instead of 6 to 1.
Well, it has never been successfully tested.
It's marked as "funny", but I find it true. I wait until near the end of the generation to buy my consoles. I have a good idea of what games are available by then and everything is priced where it should have been from the get-go. I did this with my Dreamcast and GameCube and couldn't have been happier.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
Figures, I just bought one a week ago. My sacrifice is for the good of the people.
//TODO: Insert catchy phrase
while I don't think it needs to be THAT cheap to be a success they already had a $500 price point that they ditched. IMO the extra 40GB of hard drive space (for a hard drive that you can swap out yourself with an off the shelf part) and built in WiFi wasn't really worth the extra $100 they were charging for the premium unit anyway.
If there was anyone with $500 in their pocket who wanted a PS3 they probably would have bought the 20GB model when it was still available, I'm pretty sure you can still find them lingering around stores today too.
If they want to be competitive they have to match the 360's price point... unfortunately I think if anything this price drop will cause Microsoft to follow suit, they've been hinting at a price drop for quite some time as well.
Collector's Edition
I sued to work electronics retail (best buy.. ughh), anyway- there is NO markup on game consoles, places like best buy and circuit city make their money by selling games, services, and accessories for the consoles. I highly doubt circuit city is willing to take a >$100 hit on each ps3.
It's hard to justify buying an Xbox 360 if Sony does cut their prices. There's so much more you get with the PS3 including HDMI, Blu-Ray drive for movies AND games, built in WiFi, free online forever, soon to be free MMO (Home), and HDMI. Looks like Microsoft may have to cut their own prices to compete.
I bought the Wii for $250, and I thought that was a pretty good price. For the PS3, if they got the 60 GB version down around $400, I'd probably seriously consider buying one. Anything higher than that just isn't going to happen though.
"unless you really care about Blu-Ray movies (which IMO are way overpriced)"
I think they're pretty much about a $2-5 premium over DVDs at the moment. Is it really that overpriced?
I'd save that bile for Windows Vista Ultimate Edition.
All they did is take the 60gig version and price at it at the discontinued 20gig version.
I beg slashdot can we stop with the rumour mongering, I've finally settled on getting a PS3 when its price drops to a decent level because I figure it will be a better long term investment I've come to terms with the fact I've decided on a console because "it will be a better long term investment". Can we please stop posting stupid rumours and getting my hopes up, honestly I don't see the PS3 price going down before GTAIV.
Now we can all play Genji for only $560! Amazing value.
The Wii comes with a Remote + the Nunchuck, unless something has changed since I purchased mine near launch. Wii Sports boxing game requires the Nunchuck.
END COMMUNICATION
I wonder how much of an impact this'll have on the price of 20GB models sitting around on eBay?
They're going to have to drop a certain amount below $500...and if I can get my hands on cell processors at $3-400 a pop, I'll be very happy indeed.
Seriously, I would take one if they gave it away for free... But I can't even think of one game I really want to play on it, and I am not planning to buy any bluray movies. I wouldn't even unbox it. I have a 360 and a Wii. It's too late to care about the PS3.
Hmm, I haven't had a console since the NES, but when I bought my Wii with Sports and Trauma Center, I basically got a Gamecube, and a limited NES, SNES, TG16 and I have my Wii now. A friend loaned me Prince of Persia, Metriod Prime, and two Zelda disks, and I got a whole lot of gaming for under $400. I'm big on budget gaming, but there is a whole lot of value in having a Nintendo right now. I'll probably continue to focus on Gamecube gaming for a while and add some VC games before I pick up new Wii games next year.
To get an Xbox 360 that is feature competitive (elite or not), you're going to be paying within $50 of the price of the current PS3. And even then, the Xbox 360 is far less cross-platform friendly, using nonstandard technology for its media streaming and peripherals. And you'll need to spend extra money for a HD-DVD box (if that's your thing). If you're considering buying a traditional game console, the PS3 is very competitive to the XBox 360 (especially so given the troubling reliability issues with the 360, I myself am on my third which refuses to play Gears of War!)
In comparison to the Wii, I advise you go for the Wii first unless you have a big PS2 game selection, in which case the PS3 will probably be a better value. The Wii and PS3 are both game systems, but the Wii is the interesting bargain product and the PS3 is the luxury product. This is not a representation of Wii dominance, it's a representation of supply/demand economics and how they interact with MSRPs. For many people, the Wii is a lever to get gaming into homes that aren't otherwise receptive to it. That's awesome, it's the tide that raises all the boats, and no one can deny the Wii is an interesting an innovative console. I like it, I waited overnight for mine, I endorse it.
But right now, the Wii isn't much more atttractive a platform than the PS3, if you get fair about the comparison. It's only got three really great titles (WiiPlay, Zelda and Paper Mario) and a release schedule that's nearly as lackluster as the PS3's. It's got a lot of development difficulty (instead of wrangling the cell, you're designing for a completely new and somewhat alien control system that requires a lot of realtime analysis of multiple data streams).
I totally understand waiting on buying a PS3. The platform only has a few really great titles right now (Motorstorm and recently the revised Ninja Gaiden Sigma), so it's entirely reasonable to wait. But to say that this $100 price drop doesn't make it competitive is just absurd and it's hater-aide. Don't buy into the anti-hype surrounding the platform.
Disclosure: I own all 3 consoles, a high def television. I am a supporter of Blu-ray as a recordable data standard. My Wii has stayed quiet since I beat Paper Mario, my Xbox 360 (2rd replacement) has just shown hardware defects and I'm told to send it in again. I do not work or take money from any video game company or Sony. I run both mac and linux boxes in my home, so an open media streaming capability is important to me.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
I agree, the Wii is a great value, and great fun. I can play all my favorites from the NES and SNES days. Playing is also a more fun experience, the controls are great... less buttons and more intuitive.
Currently I'm enjoying Resident Evil 4.
Good luck with that. A week after release they were all sold, and they never really shipped any more. I saw one at target once before Christmas.
>Upconverting (1080i) DVD player
Huh? My PS3 doesn't do this.
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
I would assume that with a price drop Sony would switch to the EE-less PS3 everywhere, meaning backwards compatiblity takes a hit.
I bought a 199 HD player a few weeks ago and will be returning it, I only rent as buying any media is a total waste of money, and the HD rental market just isn't there yet. Blockbuster online has released a grand total of 7 HD-DVD movies in all of 2007, all of 2007! Their bluray selection is a little better at about 8 2007 movies! lol. Netflix is about the same.
At the store they have about 40 of each format, most of them are very old. Both formats are releasing hundreds of movies per month, but for some reason the rental places just aren't buying and renting them, which doesn't make any sense for online rentals as they have a combined stock and should have every movie ever made in every format, but they aren't even close.
If you want HD movies, just DL them over xbox live, or use cable on demand. My guess is in 2008 the HD rental market should pick up after everyone has their new HD player, over 30% of US households now have an HDTV believe it or not, but right now the rental market is just outright worthless.
Xbox 360 upscales DVDs and video files/streams to 1080i just great. It is very unfortunate that it only support streaming from Windows based computers, but that's a side effect of it being made by Microsoft. They don't play nice with others, and it's a damn shame.
Backwards compatibility is a weird issue to talk about, PS3 certainly does well with the US and Japan release, but in Europe we're kinda screwed. The Xbox 360 also doesn't UPSCALE old games like the PS3 does, it renders the graphics at a higher resolution and even improves the draw distance and anti-aliasing in many games. The improvement is clear even on an SDTV set, but it's amazing to watch the difference on an HDTV. Of course the real draw is the next gen games, but I still love playing Fable and Jade Empire, so it's a really nice treat.
That said, I'm probably going to get a PS3 when it drops in price. To me Blu-ray is not a draw, so it doesn't justify the price in any way. I want the games, and if Sony delivers on their claims about multiple language tracks I'm completely sold. There's nothing I'd love more than to play FFXIII in glorious HD with japanese voice actors.
There's no question that the PS3 has a ton more potential for new games than the Xbox 360 has. Unfortunately potential means jack and shit if you don't have the games and the features, so lets just see if they can deliver.
With the exception of the Cell processor and a different selection of "fairly good online content", I already own something that does all of these things. And unless you're also using your PS3 to post on Slashdot, so do you.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
Unless you've been stalling a system update, it sure does. Run a DVD and have your tv show the output signal.
The PS3 is _slightly_ better than my TV's built in scaler for going from 480->1080, so I'm using it for now.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
Update your firmware to 1.80 or higher. PS3 didn't ship with upconverting working, but it was released in the update a few weeks ago.
Well, snarkily I note you left the online store content in there. But...
Most computers are busy doing other things, and make . If you've got a media PC already hooked up, great for you. Don't get a PS3. I am not trying to tell you that you should buy a PS3. I am just saying that a $500 price tag is a competitive one for the device feature set. Quite frankly, it's a better value than the XBox 360.
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
Update your system software. Upconverting DVDs got added in the latest system update.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
- Someone might want to do all those things specifically on their console
- As long as you're going as far as you have, you might as well say "I can play games on my PC, thus I don't need any console at all!"
You really are comparing apples and oranges here."16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
How about a great line of games and a platform that developers have shown a commitment to producing more for?
I have yet to see the "killer" game, the one that would make someone have to have a PS3. Lacking that, the fact that almost all games available for the PS3--plus way more--are also available on the Xbox 360 would make it a much better platform to buy. Remember, most people buy gaming platforms based not on nebulous potential and mere claims of superiority, and most people don't buy gaming platforms based on its ability to play movies, especially in a format that still has virutally no market penetration.
Most people (and yes, there are exceptions) buy gaming platforms based on having really great games at a pretty good price point. In fact, the last time I looked, the PS2 was still outselling the PS3. This could have shifted by now, but I don't think it has. To me, this indicates that people still don't value the marginal improvement of the PS3 over the PS2 to be worth the price difference. The marginal improvement of the PS3 over the Xbox 360 is debatable, but very minor at best, and the price difference is still significant.
My prediction? Yes, if they drop the price of the PS3 by $100, they will sell a few more units, but it will still be a distant third in the current generation console war. After screwing up the launch so badly and not giving people the features and games they expected for that premium price, it's too little, too late.
Maybe they'll learn their lessons in engineering and marketing the PS4. If anything good can come to Sony from the PS3 debacle and Ken Kutaragi's departure, maybe it's a healthy dose of much-needed humility. As the company is so painfully aware of now, Microsoft and Nintendo aren't stupid, and maybe now they'll start treating them as serious competitors they are. And maybe, just maybe, it will stop thinking so much about what Sony wants and start thinking about its customers want.
(But I kind of doubt it.)
It doesn't matter if the PS3 does 20 different things that the x360 doesn't, people just want to play games. For this job a x360 and/or a wii is a better value.
To get an Xbox 360 that is feature competitive (elite or not), you're going to be paying within $50 of the price of the current PS3.
True -- but that only matters if you actually WANT all of the features that the PS3 has. It's not a cogent comparison for those of us that don't care a whit about running Linux or downloading PSP content.
And you'll need to spend extra money for a [Xbox 360] HD-DVD box (if that's your thing).
And it it's not your thing, you don't have to pay for it! I can't argue that the PS3's integrated solution doesn't have its benefits, but the same is true of the Xbox's modular solution.
go for the Wii first unless you have a big PS2 game selection, in which case the PS3 will probably be a better value.
If you have a big PS2 game selection, you probably own a PS2 console already. And if you don't, you can buy one for 1/4 the price of a PS3. It's not a very persuasive selling point for the PS3.
You can probably find used ones, though. I managed to snag one for $250 including an add-on fan, game, and game guide because the guy had upgraded to a 60gb model and couldn't find -anyone- that would buy the old one off of him. From what I can tell it was hardly used, as it only have a half-dozen games saves for a total of 4 games. (Not that it's a great metric, with as few games as are out yet.)
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
You do realize that the stripped down version, practically doesn't exist? They made a few (very few), and put them out on the shelves at launch, JUST so that people would start quoting the $500 price point as the minimum... when they go to the store, though, they only see the $600 units, and most of the time, they just bite the bullet.
It was a decent business strategy. But no, the $500 PS3 was kind of a red hearring.
Is there a term for products like this? I'm sure there is... ya know, something that is put out in very small supply, just so that a company can claim it exists?
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
On this I disagree. The up-conversion makes PS2 games bearable on high definition displays. I couldn't finish Valkyrie Profile 2 because it felt like it was sawing my eyes. Once the PS3 started upscaling that, I could play it without distress. Since a lot of new games are coming out for the PS2 still, having a backwards-compatible PS3 means you can have 1 console handle a lot more work, and make it look better on a new TV.
I use my PS3 more than any other device in my house short of my laptop and phone. It's on all the time, doing things ranging from bittorrent downloading (in linux) to DVD playing (Xbar) to playing games (Super Startdust HD is the Geometry Wars analogue I've been waiting for for the PS3).
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
I believe the original posters point was that you get a lot for your money and may even be able to replace a number of other devices in your home. I happen to know a number of people who's home computers are not as powerful as a PS3 and so this is a really good upgrade route. When you break it down you get a video game console (the only way some of us play video games) worth at least $250 (pricing it with the Wii) an Upscaling DVD player (another $100) a Blu-Ray Player (easily another $500) and a decent performance network ready computer (another $600), all with an expected 10 years of continued support for the platform (priceless compared to it's competitors track records). So added up it looks like you get approximately $1500 worth of equipment for $500-$600, depending on price drop. True the value is only to those that do not already have all those things, but for some that is a really good value.
Yeah, it's called a modded Xbox.
Actually, the PS3's lacking the emotion engine are superior for backwards compatibility. Because it's software based, it's better now than the 1.0 version. The current version plays nearly all games, and it upscales.
If you are getting a PS3, priority one should be getting one without the emotion engine built in. Newer PS3s play PS2 games better than PS2s did.
You can't even begin to compare this to the XBOX's terrible backwards compatibility.
Gee, it's so hard to know who to believe here. Major retailers like Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, Sears who have even printed up fliers to perpetuate this fraud on poor Sony, or the unthinkable... that Sony is lying to us yet again.
Honestly, Sony, this is just next week. Whatever the minor statute of limitations on being arrogant lying sacks of crap is, it is definitely more than 7 days.
I took out the bits about the Sony online store, and just left in the item about "online content". Technically, that includes the wide world of BitTorrent, and I did concede a "different selection".
I'm actually rather ashamed to admit this, but my computer doesn't actually run make often enough to get in the way of my internet surfing or my enjoyment of Red vs. Blue. And if it did, my computer has a neat little feature. It's called "multitasking."
What is this "media PC"? Even a normal PC does every single thing on your list, and some of those things (web browsing, running Linux, wireless networking) are the sorts of things a PC inherently does. Oh, and my DVD player upconverts to whatever screen resolution I happen to be running at the time. It even downconverts, if I really want to run in 640 by 480.
Yeah, maybe if you don't have a computer already. Duplicating features that your existing devices already do much better does not make a "better value". That's like saying PS3 is a better value if it includes a refrigerated compartment for beer, even if it only holds two cans and requires that I switch out of playing my game to "eject can" mode in order to get one. That's an incredibly stupid argument when most people already own refrigerators.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
When I think about getting a game console, I'm only thinking about games.
I honestly don't care one flip about all the 'extra' stuff the PS3 can do, and I'd bet most everyone else is the same way. It can run linux? Ok. Then what? My Wii can edit images. I'll never use it.
Using your argument, they could've included a 3D holographic image generator that would project famous paintings on your wall for an extra $1000, and you shouldn't complain about the price because it's another thing it can do.
I honestly don't care. I can do without. Without games, 600 bucks is way overpriced. And even with games, 600 bucks is way overpriced. I bought my 360 for 200 bucks because I considered 400 way overpriced.
The PS3 is a bad deal right now, and I'm not sure it will recover past the point where it's actually worth it to have it AND my 360. And with no games I'm certainly not going to take that bet right now.
1970s: Arcades got cocky, and Atari is kicking their ass for losing sight of the consumer's demands.
1980s: Atari got cocky, and Nintendo is kicking their ass for losing sight of the consumer's demands.
1990s: Nintendo got cocky, and Sony is kicking their ass for losing sight of the consumer's demands.
2000s: Sony got cocky, and Microsoft is kicking their ass for losing sight of the consumer's demands.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Only if you use the VGA cable. There's no upscaling on the standard component connection. Not sure about the Elite's HDMI connection.
Not so. The Xbox 360 acts as a standard UPnP streaming media consumer. Any software that can stream music or videos to a UPnP media client can feed the 360. In Windows, that would be WMP11 or Windows Media Connect. On Mac, Connect360 works just fine. On Linux, you can use GeeXbox uShare. The 360 still mostly prefers Microsoft-specific formats (though it should do h.264 now), but as long as you have media in a format it wants it's not difficult to serve it up.
I'm not sure I'd say "a ton", though the BD format does have some potential over what the 360 can provide. Technically, the 360 and the PS3 are pretty much on par, with the PS3 being just slightly more powerful and the 360 being easier/nicer to work with. The 360's biggest asset is Xbox Live, and I just don't see Sony catching up any time soon (they killed themselves last generation when they refused to define a real online strategy and just gave up the market to Xbox Live). I could see a crazy future where full retail games are delivered via Xbox Live, stored on hard drives, and swapped around with the 360's removable hard drive.
It is not incredibly stupid.
If I could get a beer dispenser in my couch andn ot have to go to the fridge, that would be pretty cool.
Likewise, I don't want to sit where my computer is in the corner of some room by a desk. If you have a mediaPC, meaning any pc hooked to your TV in your living room in front of your nice fat leather couch, then you do not need a PS3 or xbox. I prefer to watch my movies on a nice TV while I lounge on my couch. I prefer to kill cops in San Andreas while chillin with my family in my living room (it's family values night!).
And I think the money is in the living room. Sony and Microsoft are being so cutthroat because they know that the living room is their future. Even if you do have a PC that does all the stuff the PS3 does, it doesn't play games as well, considering how many great games for PS2 can be had for 20 bucks. Even if it does play games decently, it's a hassle on any PC to install and set that crap up, the controls are too variable, and the PC costs more than 500$ if it's really competing at this level. Most folks would have to be an additional device to play media and games on the living room TV, and the PS3 is the bargain.
I have a mobile entertainment hub. And when I hook up my external 250 GB hard drive, speakers, and external screen, I have an even better entertainment hub.
For $600, I can get a computer that can run office suites, stand-alone IM, email, and calendar apps, my choice of browsers, IRC, alarm clocks, VLC, the IDE and compiler of my choosing, upscales DVDs to arbitrary resolution, will hook up to an HDTV (or any other display), stores and displays video and audio content, and can download said content over the internet, free or paid, legally or illegally, serves as a sync hub for my iPod and cell phone, downloads pictures from my digital camera, downloads and edits video from a DV camera, does my taxes, budgets my personal expenses, edits audio, runs Google Earth, multitasks between each and every one of these functions at the same time, and will run my choice of at least three operating systems, either in a multiboot or VM configuration. Will the PS3 do all of these out of the box?
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
TODO: Insert witty sig
Yeah, and someone might really want to do their taxes on the front panel of their refrigerator.
Except a great video card ends up costing more than most consoles, and a PC makes a less predictable platform, so there are good reasons for consoles. It works like this--consoles are better at playing video games, PC's are better at being PC's. Except the PS3, which makes a shitty PC, a decent game console if HD is the only differentiating feature for you, and a surprisingly good scientific computation node.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
I'm also not saying that your computer set up is not a good value (thought I can't see it as nearly the value the PS3 has), but that it is tailored for you, just as the PS3 is tailored for people who want the things it does (which is more inline with the usual console market).
By "eject can" I don't mean it would actually throw the can at you. You would still have to get up and walk to the PS3 to get the can. And then after two beers, you have to reload the PS3 from your fridge again.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
Damnit. My mod points are gone.
It's a shame, because god, that made me laugh.
If I get a PS3, I will do nothing with it but play PS1, PS2, and PS3 games on an ordinary analog NTSC television set. It's just crazy expensive for that, right now. I'll think about it once it drops below $300 or so.
My rule of thumb in the console war going on is the same as the one I apply to Vista: "Don't believe the hype." Don't listen to everyone telling you that the PS3 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and don't listen to everyone telling you it sucks monster balls. It's a good console, but not worthy of the positive OR negative hype people throw on it.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
synchronized(ps3)
{
while (ps3.price() > 200)
wait();
}
Girls are like internet domain names, the ones I like are already taken.
If only you want all of the supported items. It's like persuading for $100 all you can dial long distance, but I only make $10 worth of long distance call a month $500 a ps3 can kind of break up into HD-dvd player = $250 for a cheap Toshiba A1 + Wii $250 (which can browse for internet too, but who really want to do it anyway) However if u want gaming + HD, ps3 might not be a bad choice but since it has been loosing ground, it's game collection might not be as impressive as last round on ps2.
True. $250 isn't too much more than I've paid for "dead" consoles; from $99-$150. One would get the Wii Sports collection on top of it. So you're very right, Nintendo is the place to be as far as value goes. They've always had a good sense of quality anyway that Sony especially seems to lack in a lot of places.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
I wonder if this is being done to get rid of excess inventory. When it came out there was a flood of early adopters and people buying JUST for resale on ebay. Now that it's not the hit it was supposed to be, stores are flooded with excess inventory. Simple economics. Have too much of something sell it cheaper. Better to break even or gain a little than nothing, and it cost money to store items for a long period of time. Shelf spaces that doesnt move is dead space and cost a lot.
I use to do the same, wait a year till i could pick them up used for 1/2 the price. Problem now adays a lot of the fun game are for online MP. After the first 6months people stop playing. Might be nice to get Quake 4 for $2 but if noone is playing it, it's kinda pointless.
So, what's it like being a bigot?
Go play with your iPhone or something.
I'm getting a lot of use out of my Wii also. The wait for Super Metroid on VC is tough though. I'd settle for any Metroid!
(posting from the Wii)
It'll definitely get there, it'll just take a bit longer.
That's the kind of price I'm after too, except that because I'm in the UK I'll either have to import one from the US or wait even longer since for some incomprehensible reason prices are always higher here.
"So, what's it like being a bigot?"
Well, I can tell you it looks great. Of course I have a high end sound system too, so it sounds just as good. Overall, I'd have to say it's not bad.
And doesn't you calling me a bigot make you a bigot too? OOPS!
Keep posting AC, it's really as good as you'll ever get.
Ok, I must agree with "Planet Earth". I got it as an HD DVD and it is positively stunning. Really the perfect HD Demo DVD... I have a 360 with the HD DVD player, and VGA cables. Though it is not as impressive as 1080 native, the upconverting of DVD's was also really good.
I'm curious as to how the Planet Earth DVD's look on the PS3 when it (post 1.80 firmware) can upscale them. Have you compared the 2 Side-by-side (on the PS3 / Same TV) ?
Okay, a few, actually.
- The PS3 has a Blu-Ray player, which is going to win the format wars for the following reasons:
A:The major rental outlets all recently went with it. Buying is silly - but renting for $3-4(same price) is slick - hi-def and you can essentially toss your DVD player.
B:Larger capacity.
C:The only somewhat affordable burners for PCs that are available are Blu-Ray. I can buy Blu-Ray blank media at Best Buy and other outlets. Not so with HD-DVD.
D:Every major studio except for two have gone with Blu-Ray.
So the PS3 is a good deal right there. Basically you're getting a 360 but with the proper hi-def media drive, so the real cost of the PS3 is: $499 minus $199 for the drive(what the 360's HD-DVD add-on costs). $300 isn't too unreasonable. Remember - you have to compare apples to apples as it were - or at least try to get close.
- The cost of not being tied to Microsoft is also worth something, IMO. Microsoft has shown itself to be half-baked about quality control at all levels and doesn't really "Grok" gaming. Sony, otoh, comes closer to getting it. Being based in Japan, where many of the games are now developed, they just have a better, more varied catalog of titles. (quicker feedback and gaming is HUGE in Japan). Wii - Yeah, Nintendo wins here, hands down. They've always made the best consoles if your goal is to just have fun and relax.
(like the DS - sells *slightly* better than the PSP - okay, it's not even close)
I give this $50 for god karma and less expensive titles.
- The hardware and software is apparently more reliable. Kids in Japan will lynch the CEO of Sony if their new console "toy" blows up in a couple of months. And the OS for the PS3 appears to be harder to crash as well. I give reliability another $50.(basically no extended warranty required or shipping costs)
So what we have is:
$499-$199(drive)-$50(karma/better pricing on games)-$50(reliability/no extended warranty)=$199 compared to the 360. The only problem with the PS3 as I see it is that you are in effect buying the 360's HD-DVD drive at once. Sony could have made it a $200 add-on like the 360 and saved themselves a lot of angst I reckon.
I don't work for them either. I just like their server.
When you leave the dorm, maybe you'll get it. I don't want to call everyone over to my computer to watch a movie. I want to sit down on my nice couch in front of a large screen with decent speakers and enjoy a movie or game. Have you considered that game consoles are a luxury product, and maybe you're not in that target market?
Wait. That isn't the argument you've pressed in your post. Your argument is, "I already have a device that does that, therefore a PS3 is not worth it to anyone." Since when does the MSRP of an object vary based off what's in your house? Are you suggesting that you should get a discount on a car because you already own another? Should an ear of corn cost less because I have a tomato? Both are edible, after all...
I do have a computer already, yes. But I don't keep it next to the TV, and my computer may _stream_ media to my PS3, but it certainly isn't the thing doing the playing. And the PS3's graphics are competitive with the most expensive gaming PCs.
Maybe I'm just not living out of one room anymore, so I can't understand how you could compare a computer experience to a console experience. This is doubly true for laptops, which are what the overwhelming majority of people are buying these days (because of precipitous drops in price). Maybe what you're saying is, "I don't have a nice television, so why would I want a PS3?"
But besides that, your post is argumentative and you're demanding I justify a PS3 to you. I don't know you, I don't care to know you. All I can say is that, given a feature list like that, $500 is a very competitive market price. Heck, even the current $600 is competitive if you compare it to the cost of replicating that device with an Xbox 360 (I know, I know, you don't _have_ to do that). I do know that if you ran out and purchased a slew of inexpensive electronics products to replicate as much of the PS3 as you could, you'd surely spend more than $500-$600.
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I have a really hard time justifying the price of the latest consoles. They're kind of like Hummer vehicles: big, powerful, and they don't do anything a normal car can't do (except let everyone know you have a small dick).
The PS3 has awesome specs, but like the PS2 before it, it's going to take years before the developers learn to use its power to the fullest potential. What's worse, you can build a gaming PC for about the same price, that will play the latest games quite nicely, and won't (necessarily) bog you down with with cumbersome DRM or lock you in to a particular vendor for your software.
499$ for a console still feels far too expensive to me. I could buy one hell of a nice graphics card, or a huge LCD for my PC, and have just as much fun while getting extra use of the general-purpose nature of the computer.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I cannot imagine going back to standard definition television. I'd rather not watch TV. Now that I'm used to progressive signals, I swear I can feel the interlacing in my teeth when I watch older standard definition television.
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I was in the lucky position of buying the PS3 as I was building my home entertainment system. In this capacity, I saved a metric ass-ton of money. The PS3 was so crazily cheap compared to the morass of equipment to provide its functionality that it wasn't even a contest.
By this measure, the Wii is also a raw deal. Are you willing to go that route, or are you going to trust that Nintendo will suddenly flood the market with a lot more great games. Because their track record on non-handhelds hasn't been any good since like, the SNES. The backwards compatibility is not something that should be dismissed. A lot of really interesting games are still being released for the PS2 in addition to the fairly good (though very sparse) PS3 content.
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I know people like to argue that the market only wants divergent devices, and that convergent devices typically fail. The PS3 is a convergent device, and therefore people argue the "want the choice" to buy things seperately.
:) Integrated devices, when done well, can be powerfully compelling products.
I think the iPhone opening week pretty much slaughtered that argument.
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"I was in the lucky position of buying the PS3 as I was building my home entertainment system. In this capacity, I saved a metric ass-ton of money."
Well, I guess it just depends on how strapped for cash you are and what you ultimately want. Neither a 360 or PS3 would work for my media center needs. I built my own. More expensive than a PS3, but upgradable and with more functionality. And should an HD format ever win, it will become an HD-DVD/Blu Ray player overnight.
So for you, the PS3 was a good deal. For me, the PS3 is an uber crappy deal. I just want it to play games. The rest is crap I'll never use. (Does ANYBODY use the photo editor on the Wii?) It just depends on how you view the hardware. Are you viewing the PS3 as a game machine? Or are you viewing it as a media center that plays PS3 games? I view all next-gen systems as game machines only, and I consider 600 bucks for a game machine to be rediculous. (400 for a game machine is rediculous, too, btw. I got my 360 premium for 200 bucks.)
"By this measure, the Wii is also a raw deal. "
They're all gambles, but at 250, the Wii is the least expensive gamble of the bunch. At this stage, the PS3 has lost several exclusives, and the performance differences of a cross-platform game for the PS3 vs the 360 so far has been very slight. And if Blu Ray doesn't win the format war, you paid an extra 200 bucks for a disc reader that will only be taken advantage of by PS3 exclusives.
In a year, I may be singing a different tune. But right now, I'm still singing "PS3 is a bad idea right now."
PC gaming might be better on certain technical levels (since PC's get graphics technology quicker, and get deeper games like Civilization), but console gaming is a whole different banana, and enjoying that banana for what it is is a good reason to get a console. (Of course, I vividly remember the era where "computer game" and "video game" were totally separate concepts.) I said PS3 was decent because, frankly, it's just an HD-resolution, overpowered version of what we had since the 90's, with a crippled PC and a lame Second LIfe ripoff bolted on, and "damn good" is a judgment I prefer to reserve for revolutionary changes like the Wii.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
If I only wanted to play PS2 and PS3 games, the PS3 would be worth like $200-$300 to me. $350 if I was rich. The extra "entertainment hub" features you mention provide no value to me because I already have those features, so it's a fallacy to factor them into the value of the PS3 to me, or anyone else with a recently-made computer.
Right, if it runs Linux (which means I have to buy it from...well...some unnamed vendor that you assert "does exist", or install it myself, neither of which the typical user is going to do). Having tried Ubuntu, I'd pick it over Windows, but not much else. Keep in mind that I was working within your $600 computer budget--my actual computer costs more than $600, but it's a bit faster, has a built-in screen, supports dual displays, has FireWire.... Oh, yes, and like most people who would buy a PS3, I already have my computer, so saying I can use my PS3 as a computer if I try really hard still gives me no additional value.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
The $499 version of the PS3 has been discontinued from U.S. and Japanese retailers for at least three months now - apparently they weren't in as high demand as the $600 version. It would be very difficult to find a 20 GB PS3 now.
Do you go sit on your couch to browse websites? Or, alternatively, do you find a $500 game console more economical than a DVI cable you can hook your notebook to when you come home?
Most people already have PC's. Poorly replicating the existing features of existing PC's is thus not a very good way of adding value to a gaming console.
I wasn't aware we disagreed over the MSRP of the PlayStation 3. As I recall, it's around $500, which is hundreds more than the Wii or Xbox 360. Our disagreement is over whether or not it's worth that for consumers in the console market.
I'm saying that, if I already own a car, it makes no sense to buy a second car because "you can drive it places." If I already own a tomato, "you can eat it" is not a compelling reason to buy an ear of corn. And, more to the point, if I already own a computer and I'm going console shopping, I'm not going to buy a more expensive console because it poorly does the same things my computer already does. Neither are, according to the sales reports, the thousands of people every month who choose to buy Wiis and PS2's instead of PS3's.
I'm criticizing an argument that you made--if you don't wish your arguments to be criticized, it would behoove you not to make them in a public forum. My point remains the same--the "feature list" you give for the PlayStation 3 is already redundant with the other devices that most people already own--especially if they're in the market for "luxury products".
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
Although, with half the price and the ability to play games by waving the controller around, it's a slightly cheaper, much more enjoyable raw deal.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
...there are no complaints about paying an equivalent amount for a mobile phone...
Weird, the Circuit City I work at has so many in the back room that we actually use them for doorstops around the store and in the back..
WHO NEEDS SHIFT WHEN YOU HAVE CAPSLOCK/ DAMN1
Upscaling on the VGA cables do work great. Never understood why they didn't upscale VIA component, but The Elite does scale DVD over HDMI (Which is included) and does it to 1080p, not 1080i (As of the Fall 2006 update).
It takes a bit of a hit but the software BC is still excellent. It's not a case of supporting a handful of select titles (i.e. the 360's idea of BC) - it supports thousands of titles including most of the things people would actually want to play. There are some exceptions, but not many.
Yes and I bet it cost only $500 (or $600), sits under your TV and has a kickass games console built-in. Right?
There is no question that you could build a PC gaming rig that would kick any console's ass. It sure as hell would not cost you more than $600 to make or buy it though.
Then you should try reading your own posts over again before you hit "submit". You're missing some excellent examples.
You never made any assertions about the PS2. But you are arguing that the PS3 is a good value for the typical consumer, or at least for a large subset of consumers, and it's that argument I'm criticizing.
Certainly, but that's the PC market, not the console market. I doubt Terra Soft, or any other Linux installer, represents a significant proportion of the share of PS3 sales. Do you honestly believe otherwise?
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
The point is, I already have my computer. Most people already own computers, and it's been that way since the late 90's. The question, then, is what can this PS3 do that people's existing computers can't. Play PS3 and PS2 games? That's not worth $500 to most people.
And let's imagine that I wanted to buy a new computer. Would a PS3 fit the bill? Well, it runs a web browser, and I can download digital content. That's kind of nice, except very limited compared to what a real PC can do. Oh, I can load Linux on the PS3? That's nice, except now I have to reboot the thing every time I want to switch back to PS3 mode. And it takes up my TV set. And it's not particularly portable, unless I want to carry an HDTV around.
If you're marketing the PS3 to an imaginary person who has money to spend, owns an HDTV, but has no PC (or wants a new PC) and wants to buy a game console, I concede that person might buy it--if his computing needs were extremely simple. If Sony is going after that market, however, no wonder the PS3 is a sales disaster.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
IMO, all three next gen consoles fail at that right now. There is one game for the Wii (Super Paper Mario) I'm interested in that isn't already available for other consoles. There are maybe three Xbox 360 games, and no PS3 games. And since I could buy, at bare minimum, two consoles of the previous generation for the price of one next gen console (all three if we're talking about either the 360 or PS3), it's a non-starter. Backwards compatibility is a plus, to be sure, but I still think that, if all you're interested in is the games, you're better off getting a used GameCube for $50 than a used Wii (if you can even find one) for over $200. And that's even more true for the PS3/PS2 and 360/Xbox (especially the latter, with its limited and frequently imperfect backwards compatibility).
Yes, eventually the games libraries will grow. And, when they do, I'll feel qualified to evaluate each next gen console on its relative merits. But it strikes me as incredibly premature to evaluate any of the consoles on the merits of their games when none of them perform particularly well on that front at the moment.
Sean Daugherty "I have walked in Eternity -- and Eternity weeps."
I thought the question is what justifies the cost of the PS3. And the answer is all of the things listed justify the cost of the PS3.
Yes you can buy a PC that does most of those things but that's rather irrelevant. People want to know why the PS3 costs so much (though no more than a Mac Mini), and there's your answer. The comparison to a Mac Mini is quite interesting really. People don't bat an eyelid at the cost of a Mac, yet pan the price of a PS3 even though it costs the same and is a far more capable device.
No, what you described is perfectly legal. Trying to upsell -- no problem at all with that.
Bait and switch is when they say "50 inch TVs for $100!!!" and when you get to the store they say "Aw! Sold outta those, they went like hotcakes! But we DO have lots of 46 inch TVs for $99!"
Now you can make an argument that this is actually what they did with the 20GB PS3 -- but that argument won't hold much water when you take a look at this long list of 20 GB PS3s available right now on eBay, many of them brand new, from stores.
I have a really hard time believing that. It's a discontinued item that they never made very many of in the first place, so there shouldn't be that many in one store, and you store's inventory control manager shouldn't be letting you use multi-hundred dollar unopened items as doorstops.
Lastly, if you put them out on the floor instead of leaving them in the back room, you'd probably sell them... (If your story was really true)
Then again, maybe you can't find them anywhere because they were all shipped to your Circuit City.. And people are apt to do stupid things when they think they're funny/when they own the other type of console. Either way, remind me not to purchase things like that from Circuit City anymore... Seeing as there's a chance the hard drive has been whacked around for fun.
I suppose that all depends on how much you value that [admitedly limited] content. I know some people who would buy a BluRay player (even at current prices) for the Original Star Wars Trilogy in HD. Even if BluRay were to fail as a format, they would still be able to play those movies until their players die, so future support really isn't as big if an issue as they are completely vested with that Content and would feel they got their moneys worth.
Oh shit, I originally read your post as meaning any PS3, not just the 20GB one. Sorry, those are the 60GB ones that get used like that. And it doesn't matter because the ones out on the floor never sell.
WHO NEEDS SHIFT WHEN YOU HAVE CAPSLOCK/ DAMN1
In this thread you seem to be the only one arguing that the PS3 is not a good value, so I'm gonna take the majority opinion on this one and you can feel free to continue to change your arguments till you find one that sticks, but personally I'm done refuting your moronic arguments.
Nintendo got it right with the Wii. Good price and innovation.
That's also not the point I was making. There's a difference between "can buy" and "already own".
"Far more capable"...absurd.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
I have taken economics courses. Have you? Value doesn't exist in a vacuum, it only exists relative to the needs and desires of consumers. Value is the exact same thing as "what the consumer is willing to pay", and considering that extremely few consumers are willing to pay for the PS3, I think we can conclude that the PS3 is a poor value from that alone.
I did no such thing. I implied from the outset that typical consumers didn't buy from these vendors simply because they were minor players that no one's heard of before. I apologize if that was unclear, but I suspect you're deliberately misrepresenting my arguments--a rather dishonest way to discuss things, isn't it?
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
I think it would be wise for SCEA to drop the PS3 to $499.99..Because there is no telling what the Xbox360 has in store for E3-2007! 10-14..I just hope that we will see also a release date for Metal Gear Solid 4 Guns Of The Patriots Grand Theft Auto 4 and God Of War 3 Resident Evil 5 Heaven Rain, Castlevania next gen, The Much rumored Street Fighter 4,Zone Of Enders 3-DDR PS3,Tekken 6,Strangle Hold,Rock Band,Uncharted Drakes Fortune,Burnout Paradise,Heavenly Sword,Ratchet & Clank Next Gen,Harker, Sony needs the games they showed at last Years E3-2006 to come out! Damn it games please! And soon!..Also that much needed update to the PS3 hardware for us to be able to customize the Music in our games!..
* Plays fun games.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
Can someone explain "upscaling" to me? I thought it was a fundamental law of graphics that you could always make the resolution SMALLER without losing detail, but to make them bigger requires that lost information (or information that never existed in the first place) be recreated from existing data and caused all sorts of ugliness.
Are we now getting to the CSI point where we can take a blurry photograph and 'enhance' it to perfect clarity?
Why does BlueRay sound like 'Blurry'....
Sure.
First though, it's not a law that we can drop size without losing detail, at least digitally... it's actually fairly complex to scale an image down or up and make it look good at an arbitrary resolution. You end up making some fairly complex choices about source pixels. There is a similar situation with rotated images (particularly when the image is rotated so that its lines are not aligned with the screen grid).
Given that bit of info, it's also possible to imagine a situation where, through a series of math and heuristics and voodoo, you can make a scaled up image that looks fairly good. Instead of seeing jagged artifacts, we might see some soft blurring. The algorithm might scale high-contract regions differently from low contract regions (to make lines sharper). There are a ton of techniques. For an example of this, go to a local consumer electronics store and check out those "walls of high definition televisions" that all play the same thing. Find the one that's much bigger and displays in 1080p instead of 720p. You're seeing upscaling in action. You can often find demos of upconverting DVD players there, note how the image looks fairly good but has a softness and a lack of sharpness. Still, it's better than looking like trash as an unmodified signal would.
You can go on wikipedia to find the descriptions of the relevant math and algorithms.
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Youtube, Strongbad, Smoking Gun, CNET. Video podcasts of all sorts. Your answer is an emphatic Yes. There are tons of great entertainment sites out there, and I watch them on my TV. They look and sound great.
Why didn't I think of that!? I'll just require my damn entertainment center every afternoon while I'm at it. And surely I'll have an extra-long cable and a little tiny desk. I'll even get a nice orange sleeve around the cable so people don't trip over it and simultaneously ruin my laptop and my TV.
Get the sarcasm? The logistics of what you just proposed in a real home are so staggeringly preposterous, I wonder if you even considered it at all.
So you don't disagree on the MSRP, you just disagree on what they should charge for it?
So people buying hybrid cars are stupid. Their cars could already drive them places, and they had money to get them more gas. Why ever innovate, micronize, or converge products? I mean, what good is innovation? Just a waste of time. Let's not try new things in a saturated marketplace where differentiation takes place by degrees.
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Thanks. That's been driving me nuts for some time.
I swear DVD playback in the Wii is such a non-issue it makes me laugh when people complain or use it as an argument for why the Wii is bad. Let me ask a question... how few DVD players do you have that it makes it so important that the Wii can play DVDs? I asked this to a Microsoft rep at my local EB one day and he preceded to count the DVD players in his house. He had to use both hands and finally said to me "good point." An MS rep said "good point." I don't know about your household but in mine between two laptops and a desktop, a PS2, and the two stand-alone DVD players I could care less if I had another one or not.
Then in your case, waiting is good and wise. I bought my PS3 a couple of months after launch, so there were just 12 or so titles available. Of that 12, I was only interested in three games. Only Resistance was exclusive to the PS3. The other two are allegedly better on the 360, which I don't own. This doesn't bother me so much because I am a hardware junkie and a video nut, and I like integration. For me, the PS3 is a dream despite its annoyances. But I am still biding my time until GTAIV, Resident Evil, and hopefully Dead Rising comes.
I came into the Xbox strictly for gaming, and with 3 years of full steam Xbox marketing left in the life cycle. That was a smart move I think, cause it meant a lower price all across the board. I had a substantial software choice and I was able to save money on building my game library by taking advantage of online discounts, retail markdowns, and so-called "greatest hits" special editions. The only thing I gave up by not buying the Xbox at launch was bragging rights... but since I like girls, that wasn't a loss.
My sources tell me that tomorrow, (Monday July 9th, 2007) Sonny will announce an 80gig system (w/Motorstorm) for 599.99USD. They will reduce the price of the current 60gig system to 499.99USD.
I like the PS3, but I just can't afford to be an early adopter. I'll wait until it becomes popular (or not) on the backs of other people's dollars. The 360 may have hardware problems, but I haven't yet encountered any, and the games look great. What's more, there's a substantially larger selection of titles for the 360, and I can backup my games for a $60 initial investment (if I didn't have a DVD burner) and $2 each title instead of an $800 BD-Burner and $25 each (and no currently known method to boot backups).
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
First you were talking about Zelda for Wii, and I was sort of laughing cause I've got that on gamecube. Then you started talking about Ninja Gaiden-- seriously, which console generation are we talking about here??
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Metroid Prime and Prime 2 work, and of course, you can unlock the original NES Metroid if you have the GBA version and a link cable :-)
Again, completely irrelevant. People ask what justifies the cost of the PS3 and the answer is all the things in the list and more.
"Far more capable"...absurd.
It is far more capable. As a Linux box it can do pretty much anything the Mac Mini can do. As a PS3 it is a superior multimedia device and games console.
Some have already pointed out that that PS3 has wireless, but everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that the 360 does not (by default.) Same with HDMI.
So, to line up the hardware side by side, with the price drop, what you are getting for 500 American pesos is:
- Blu-ray built-in - add $200 for the Xbox HD-DVD player
- HDMI built-in - add at least $100 to the base system for the 360 1337 version
- Wireless built-in- add $100 for a $2.49 wireless dongle for the Xbox
- Free online gaming - add $NX for the 360. Let N = too much money, and X = the amount of months you want to pay that.
I am no Sony Fanboy, but the bang:buck ratio is enough to get me to pay what is probably still too much for a console.
Hooray for Breakfast Pants! Zelda for the Wii is still one of the only really good titles on the platform.
Go check out the new Ninja Gaiden Sigma on PS3 and you tell me. That game is pretty damn amazing how good a game is a few years after the original release. Reworked gameplay, new content, new characters, new secrets. WAY better graphics. Really great title, not just a holdover until Heavenly Sword.
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