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Patents Don't Pay

tarball_tinkerbell sends us to the NY Times for word on a book due out next year that claims that beginning in the late 1990s, on average patents cost companies more than they earned them. A big exception was pharmaceuticals, which accounted for 2/3 of the revenues attributable to patents. The authors of the book Do Patents Work? (synopsis and sample chapters), James Bessen and Michael J. Meurer of the Boston University School of Law, have crunched the numbers and say that, especially in the IT industry, patents no longer make economic sense. Their views are less radical than those of a pair of Washington University at St. Louis economists who argue that the patent system should be abolished outright.

19 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. Patent Business Model by UncleWilly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It doesn't surprise me that patents tend to be expensive & useless. The only place they are of any real use is in court. Any business model that has "time in court" from the get-go is probably not such a great model.

    1. Re:Patent Business Model by click2005 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Any business model that has "time in court" from the get-go is probably not such a great model.

      Except for a law firm.

      --
      I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
    2. Re:Patent Business Model by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Any business model that has "time in court" from the get-go is probably not such a great model.

      Except for a law firm. Most law firms are lousy business models too.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  2. Not really surprising by Iphtashu+Fitz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Especially in the world of computers it seems that so many of the patents are of questionable validity. A lot of software-related patents end up getting invalidated due to prior art when the patent holder tries to enforce it. Why do you think Microsoft isn't publicizing the list of patents that it claims linux infringes on? Tons of people will try to dig up prior art as soon as they know what patents MS claims are being infringed upon.

    1. Re:Not really surprising by Iphtashu+Fitz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a nice thought but I wouldn't expect to see any significant changes in a long time. Companies like Microsoft that have huge investments in proprietary software are going to use the threats of patents to try to combat the growth of linux and open source software in general. I'm sure they'll continue to do that for as long as they possibly can. Even companies like Amazon, with their dubious one-click patent, use them as weapons in going after the competition. Unless/until something significant happens that puts an end to the abuse of dubious software patents I have a feeling they'll be around for quite some time.

  3. This is also the Pirate Party's stance by CrystalFalcon · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Pirate Party also claims, with good justification (although a bit less of it in English), that patents should be abolished outright. Good to see some others chime in.

    1. Re:This is also the Pirate Party's stance by dex22 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Does this mean a non-profit can circumvent a patent simply by making and giving a drug away away?

    2. Re:This is also the Pirate Party's stance by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >>What about pharmaceuticals

      Since you work in the industry, you are probably a bit biased. But here's my $.02:

      Pharmaceuticals should be developed by government grants and the IP turned over to Public Domain. A list of the 20 worst ailments that *could* be treated with drugs should be created. Then, funding would go from the Federal Government to Universities willing to work on those problems.

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
  4. Its about raising the barrier of entry by jorghis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the big companies all file for a bunch of patents it raises the barrier of entry very high for would be competitors. They may not get any revenue from these patents but they save a lot from not having to deal with smaller companies taking their business.

    I mean the whole point of the patent is to give its inventor exclusive license to be free from competition, the author of this piece doesnt take that into account at all. Im not saying that this is good or bad for innovation, just that there is significant financial incentive that the writer fails to account for.

  5. Patents do pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the 1990's, for publicly traded companies only. Mainly due to litigation costs.

    For others patents did better:

    Mr. Bessen said that besides girding the pharmaceutical industry, the system did seem to work reasonably well for small companies and individual inventors.

    I know slashdot editors hate IP as much as they hate nuance, but the headline does not refect this guy's research.

  6. Re:If you can't tell the boundries, it ain't prope by ardor · · Score: 4, Informative

    This has been invented already.

    Its called "copyright".

    --
    This sig does not contain any SCO code.
  7. Won't help by Realistic_Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everyone thinks they are special. It's a fundamental human attribute.

    How else would you explain the people who play the lottery? Gamble at casinos? Think that out of all the millions of oppressed masses, _they_ are the ones who will live the American dream and become someone?

    It makes life more interesting; without that drive there would be little innovation, little hard work and drive, few no obsessively hard workers spending three years of nights in a garage writing software, no interest in going for American Idol... ok, scratch that last one.

    In the same way companies, which are only an aggregation of people, will think that they can be the one out of a million who will benefit from patents. Even if you can empirically and theoretically show that they are being taken up the arse by a banana. Human nature. Infuriating, isn't it?

    --
    Beep beep.
    1. Re:Won't help by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How else would you explain the people who play the lottery? Gamble at casinos? Think that out of all the millions of oppressed masses, _they_ are the ones who will live the American dream and become someone?

      Um, except... people DO win the lottery, some people do win at a casino and then have the brains to get up and leave, and people who don't have everything they wish they could have aren't "oppressed." People DO live the dream. Not everyone does or is equipped to.

      Human nature. Infuriating, isn't it?

      Why look at it that way? I'd rather just sit back and be impressed by the people who DO invent a new process or widget that hugely benefits us all when they put it to work, or marvel at the less creative people who none the less have the discipline to just work their asses off and build something of value to improve their circumstances and leave as a legacy to their kids. That plenty of less insightful or lazy people take a sloppy stab at that sort of thing and don't get anywhere with it MAY be like gambling badly in a casino, but it's mostly just less intelligent or worldly people behaving according to their nature and experience (and idle hopes). But human nature, if you can define such a thing at all, has also provided us with refridgeration, anti-biotics, incomprehensibly cool integrated technology widgets that would be considered magic not many decades ago, and so on. It's not infuriating, it's amazing. And if someone thinks they're on to something, and end up patenting something that they don't have the wherewithal to turn into a viable part of their business... well, too bad. Some airlines fly with a lot of empty seats, lots of expensive theatrical productions play to empty theatres, and plenty of great chefs have no-one to cook for because the restaurant's on the wrong side of the street during rush hour.

      --
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    2. Re:Won't help by jez9999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And if someone thinks they're on to something, and end up patenting something that they don't have the wherewithal to turn into a viable part of their business... well, too bad. Some airlines fly with a lot of empty seats, lots of expensive theatrical productions play to empty theatres, and plenty of great chefs have no-one to cook for because the restaurant's on the wrong side of the street during rush hour.

      Erm, yeah, but the difference is that those businesses aren't prohibiting competitors (and their customers) from benefitting from their incompetence; businesses who sit on patents are.

  8. Wright brothers are another good example by A+nonymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    They first flew under barely controllable circumstances Dec 17, 1903, but then spent several years trying to keep it secret, or at least not publicize it, while they made it practical. They used wing warping which physically bent the wings to control roll, and in order to get around this patented idea, Curtis, in 1908 I think, invented ailerons, hinged sections of wing which have been in use ever since. The Wrights spent the next ten years in court over the matter, and it wasn't settled until the US government forced a settlement when it joined WW I. The Wrights never did much at all after the first few years except sue the competition in court. Everyone else made advances in the technology, but not the Wrights, and they later had to merge just to keep the name in business.

    A real lesson in the relative merits of innovation to stay at the front of the pack instead of dying in court battles.

  9. Contributing factor by cdrguru · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Today, a patent can certainly be useless.

    Let's say you invent some new physical item, obtain a patent and line up licensing with a manufacturer to produce the product. In the first six months you manage to line up significant interest in large retailers for this product and the money starts flowing in.

    Two months later you discover your retailers are deserting you and are buying an identical product made in China. Your revenue ceases because nobody wants your overpriced product when they can buy the cheap knockoff made in China. Unless there are substantial reasons to purchase your original (which there probably aren't), nobody is interested.

    You are now looking at your investors that put up the money to get the product manufactured and advertised. They would like the big returns you were promising them and looked like they were going to get. Instead, you are bankrupt and have no friends (they were all investors).

    50 years ago US Customs would have blocked the import of a patent-violating product. I don't know when they stopped, but today it is common to find products made in foreign countries that violate US patents and other licensing agreements. Where do you think all those cheap DVD players come from when it is $5 per player for the license? Any player under $100 retail is unlicensed and the Customs folks know it.

    Rule 1: If it is a physical product that can be duplicated, it will be.
    Rule 2: International trade is a race to the bottom with the lowest cost winning, always.
    Rule 3: Patents and copyrights are only as good as the enforcement behind them.

    Today, enforcement is a joke. You can sue someone in the US for violating a patent, but if they are violating it from outside the US (say, from China) you can't sue them. China would laugh - they don't enforce US laws. Customs will not block imports. Do you believe you can sue Wal-Mart for selling the product? You can't prevent people from getting cheap stuff - it is almost the 11th item on the Bill of Rights these days.

    What this means is that patents are only good as tokens to impress potential buyers of a company with.

    So how do you keep something from being duplicated? Have some encrypted software required to operate the device. The R&D effort to duplicate the development would make copying the product too expensive. Sure, they can copy the hardware but without copying the software they have a useless piece of junk. Maybe you can license the software to them, but doing so would be suicide - it turns your company from a hardware vendor into a software supplier.

  10. Patents were never supposed to make money by kasperd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The purpose of patents were to improve inovation and make the results available to society. Before patents were introduced, people would try to protect their inventions by keeping the details as secret as possible. Patents are supposed to get them to reveal the details by getting a timelimited monopoly in return. Then others can keep inovating by building on top and eventually the inventions will become free for everybody to use. And anybody who sticked with the old habbit of keeping the details secret rather than patenting it would run the risk of somebody else being granted a patent on the intention.

    That is how it was supposed to work in the theory.

    In reality we see abuse such as companies patenting things they didn't really invent, companies patenting trivialities, and patents that don't include all the details which were the purpose of patents in the first place. If software patents weren't bad enough in itself, it is made even worse by them not containing the full source of a working implementation. If patent applications were really being treated within the original spirit of patents, any software patent application not comming with the full source would be rejected. And of course once the patent is granted, the source is published available for anybody to use as long as they have a licensee for the patent. Once the patent expires, the source can be used essentially the same way you can use BSD licensed source.

    Somebody seems to have forgotten why patents were introduced. And some companies seems to want to not only keep, but also extent patents (and copyright as well) because they want to make money from it. If making money is the only reason for keeping those kinds of protections in place, they should be abandoned. But for gods sake, don't make the big mistake of abandoning them only for economical reasons. Rather think the system over again and adjust it to serve its original purpose, even if that means companies will make less money on average.

    --

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  11. Re:Patents Be Gone! by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Patents weren't supposed to be about ideas. They were supposed to be about implementations, specific ways of making ideas work in the real world. The Founders were pretty clear about that. The problems came in (as so many do) when we stopped listening to them.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  12. Re:An argument for doing away with drug patents by jorghis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have always wondered where people get this idea that drug companies dont do research, they just take something from universities, slap a patent on it and sell it. Yes, some of this stuff is based on things that had some basic work done in universities, but guess who funds that research! Yup, evil old big pharma! These university departments get huge sums of money from those nasty drug companies.

    Pfizer spent 8 billion dollars on research and development last year.
    Merck spent 5 billion.
    Novartis spent 5 billion.
    And so on, all the big pharma companies have R&D budgets of that size.

    So my question then, is if you honestly believe that this R&D isnt producing anything meaningful, where on earth is this money going? You think they are just flushing money down a rathole since according to you they have never actually produced anything meaningful? Really, I want to know, do you seriously believe that all these billions in R&D are just wasted? Do you think that for the past century they have continued blowing all this money, never seen any results from it, and noone ever stopped to say "oh hey where are all those billions going?"

    Drug companies may try to game the system some with patents, but its not like they are just sitting there not producing anything of value. There may be some validity to the complaints people have about big pharma, but you lose credibility when you claim that they dont produce anything of value.