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The History of Civilization

Posted by Zonk on from the canon-with-cannons dept.

You may recall back in March, when a group of smart folks got together to form a game canon. They essentially nominated the ten most important games, ever. Gamasutra has begun a series of articles which will explore the storied history of each of these titles, and they've started with Sim Meier's Civilization series. Benj Edwards' history of Civilization begins with a rundown on the series itself, and wraps with a lengthy Sid Meier interview. Required reading, essentially. "Meier [is] comfortable with a legacy inextricably tied to Civilization: 'I think that if that's what's on my epitaph, "Did Civilization," that would be fine.' In musing about the fate of his beloved series, Meier finds himself satisfied with what the future might hold for the franchise: 'There's probably somebody getting ready for their first day of college that's probably going to be a part of Civilization in ten to fifteen years from now. I think it'll be around for quite a while.'"

25 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. The History of Civilization by GrayCalx · · Score: 5, Funny

    I believe Douglas Adams said it best...

    "In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move."

    1. Re:The History of Civilization by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2, Informative

      The ver excellent Civilization strategy guide "Civilization, or Rome on 640K per day" or something to that effect, had a section on modding the game.

      One of the mods was editing the text that was part of the opening cinematic, and the example the guy used was, in part that very sequence, as well as the digital watches bit.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  2. Just one question Mr Meier... by HexRei · · Score: 4, Funny

    All I want to know is how the damn Zulu spearman could possibly defeat ALL my tanks. HOW!?!?!?

    1. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by EveryNickIsTaken · · Score: 2, Funny

      Any Italians here that can answer that question?

    2. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by uberjoe · · Score: 5, Funny

      All I want to know is how the damn Zulu spearman could possibly defeat ALL my tanks. HOW!?!?!?

      That's easy, hundreds of them getting squashed gum up the treads immobilizing the tank. From there hundreds more take turns sticking their spears down the barrel of the turret causing the tank crew to expend all their ammo unclogging the main gun. Then its only a small matter of blocking the air vents of the tank with zebra skins and elephant dung and waiting for the crew to asphyxiate.

      --

      The days of the digital watch are numbered.

    3. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by jollyreaper · · Score: 4, Funny

      All I want to know is how the damn Zulu spearman could possibly defeat ALL my tanks. HOW!?!?!? That's easy, hundreds of them getting squashed gum up the treads immobilizing the tank. From there hundreds more take turns sticking their spears down the barrel of the turret causing the tank crew to expend all their ammo unclogging the main gun. Then its only a small matter of blocking the air vents of the tank with zebra skins and elephant dung and waiting for the crew to asphyxiate. Ok, Mr. Smart Guy, now explain how the spearman shot down my stealth bomber.
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    4. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by east+coast · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ok, Mr. Smart Guy, now explain how the spearman shot down my stealth bomber.

      Two words: Cheerleader pyramid.

      --
      Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
    5. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by Belacgod · · Score: 4, Funny

      Seen Black Hawk Down? What I want to know is how that phalanx sank my battleship.

    6. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by uberjoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ok, Mr. Smart Guy, now explain how the spearman shot down my stealth bomber.

      OK here goes. It's not a matter of the spearman actually shooting down the stealth bomber. Rather the stealth bomber 'rolls a 1' to put it in RPG context. He fumbles. Catastrophic engine failure, the bomb fail to explode, or they explode in while still in the bay, etc. The spearman doesn't take down the plane, the plane just utterly fails.

      Sorry, I can't have a cute/funny explanation all the time. I tried to come up with one but I'm tired.

      --

      The days of the digital watch are numbered.

    7. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by SEE · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why is fixing this such an issue in all of these historical RTS or strategy games? It's an inherently difficult problem to scale things so near-tech-level rivals have approximately correct interactions while zeroing the chance against far-tech-level opponents. You need lots of special-case rules to handle interactions; numerical "unit strength" values and formulas don't work. Call it the "Hot Lead" problem, because it was bedeviling Steve Jackson long before any of these computer games came along.
    8. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by myowntrueself · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's an inherently difficult problem to scale things so near-tech-level rivals have approximately correct interactions while zeroing the chance against far-tech-level opponents.

      World of Warcraft has an extremely effective way of dealing with a similar problem.

      If you are significantly lower level than an opponent there is no way at all that any number of you will do any damage at all to an opponent. When the level difference is in the tens its pretty well impossible to harm them.

      In the case of the spearmen though, there may be a reasonable argument;

      Those 'phalanx' units that survived until the 20th century do not represent spear-wielding bronze-age warriors somehow mystically frozen in time or some kind of 'ceremonial unit' whose methods and equipment have been preserved in the name of tradition.

      It may be presumed that their personnel and gear have been upgraded in the intervening centuries. It might be more of a SWAT team (for want of a better analogy right this minute) by the time it goes up against the missile cruiser. And, yes, I'd give a SWAT team *some* chance of taking out a missile cruiser.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    9. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by drsquare · · Score: 2, Informative

      But Civ 1 has more modern units like riflemen and mechanised infantry. Phalanxes aren't upgraded, they stay exactly as they are.

    10. Re:Just one question Mr Meier... by a_ghostwheel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For those of us who old enough to remember Galaxy e-mail based game (and other variants like VGA Planets and Galaxy Plus): when ship had offence 4 times opponent defense it meant automatic kill (and when defender had defense 4 times greater than opponent offense attack did absolutely nothing). And this was long before even Civ 1.

      I am not sure why such logic was not included into Civ. Personally, I am going with "catastrophic failure" explanation given by somebody above.

  3. Damn you, Sid! by Fyz · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's probably someone just starting out in college who will be there for the next ten to fifteen years because of Civilization!

  4. Shouldn't smart people know what a "canon" is? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You may recall back in March, when a group of smart folks got together to form a game canon. They essentially nominated the ten most important games, ever.


    Shouldn't smart people know what a "canon" is? (Or is "smart folks" a knock on their intelligence to begin with?)

    http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&safe=off &defl=en&q=define:canon&sa=X&oi=glossary_definitio n&ct=title

    (In other words, 10 specific games cannot be a "canon", unless you are saying that these games are a "bible" and all other games are heresy. 10 specific game design principles, however...)
    1. Re:Shouldn't smart people know what a "canon" is? by disassembled · · Score: 2, Informative

      The term "canon" is used in literature to describe a generally-accepted set of "great" literary works, and it makes perfect sense to extend this concept to games.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_canon

      Perhaps next time you'll educate yourself (or at least read your own link) before denigrating others!

  5. The real Sid Meier? by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 4, Funny

    Or did they interview the robotic dopelganger, Sim Meier? Not Sid Meier, but an incredible simulation.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  6. Ultimate Civilization by Yold · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can't wait until you can build and empire over 2000 years, and then walk through the streets ala GTA3. Maybe steals some cars and hit some pedestrians too, it would probably be straight if you didn' build the courthouse improvement.

    1. Re:Ultimate Civilization by spun · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You know, I've given some thought to a game like that. You know the 'great people' of Civ IV? What if, to gain the benefits of a great person, you had to play that person and complete a short RPG style quest in the civilization you've created? Like the 'Rush Hour' expansion to Sim City 4, where you can gain cash, popularity, and other benefits from completing driving missions.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:Ultimate Civilization by HoboCop · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I really like this sort of idea, but taken a bit further out. A game like civ, that creates content, for another game, like WOW or another MMORPG/RPG/ or even FPS. With the right kind of infrastructure and reporting / management tools. It's a neverending cycle of content and players that can evolve together. I think some games are drifting towards this, but I don't think anyone has seen the really big picture yet. Couple this with some good competition, prizes, and a serious rendering engine, and you have a reality-based TV show on top of it. It's all technically possible today, there just needs to be a visionary to put it all together in a way that pleases the masses, and caters to different groups of people with different wants. You get something for the hardcore gamer, something for the creative (and/or technical) gamer, and something for the casuals too.

    3. Re:Ultimate Civilization by roystgnr · · Score: 5, Funny

      What if, to gain the benefits of a great person, you had to play that person and complete a short RPG style quest in the civilization you've created?

      Yes, that would certainly fix my number one complaint about Civilization: it's not time-consuming enough.

  7. Ghandi the warmonger? by myowntrueself · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What I'd like to ask Sid is why was the AI behind the Indians so agressively warlike when their 'face' was Mahatma Ghandi?

    It always seemed strange to see that kind old man on your screen and to know that you had a huge long protracted war ahead of you.

    --
    In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  8. Just The History of Civilization I by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2, Informative

    They only make slanting references to Civ II onward. No mention of the fact that Civ spawned an entire user community, a complete user created manual on the early internet describing all the intricacies of the game and "cheats" (utilizing bugs) that could stretch the game score far beyond what was envisioned.

    Then there's the entire segment of history regarding CivNet, the user community generated effort driven by the fact there would be no Civ II originally. Or the fact that CivNet's efforts were wrapped into Civ II. There's a whole set of firsts buried in that time period that probably deserve mention. Civ was the first computer game I'm aware of that spawned such a large and intense interest in it that a user community spawned up around it that also culminated in new code being written.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  9. I always wanted to see more nonmilitary victories by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My computer isn't up to the task of playing Civ4 but I see from the strategy guides that more attention was given to peaceful expansion and influence. The problem I always run into with these 4x games is that you have to claim a lot of territory early but it's tough to strike the balance between research, industry, and army. I'd always end up buttoned up in my cities/solar systems/castles until I had an economy together, constantly fearing attack by strong enemy forces, then by the time my fleet/army is ready to kick ass, the enemies have collapsed. Anyone else remember Master of Orion with the massive fleets of 32,000 weak-ass ships constantly attacking your planets and fleeing before the mass of defense missiles?

    So, for people who have played a lot of IV, how are the non-military victories? Are they better than just building spaceships?

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  10. Re:I always wanted to see more nonmilitary victori by EMeta · · Score: 3, Interesting
    In Civ IV, you can win via Space, Diplomatically, or Culturally. Space is by far the easiest (and the easiest for the computer if you let them). The cultural victory is hard, but doable. The corruption rates are scaled very well in that a few cities can easily have the same or better technology learning rate as a similar Civ with lots of cities. If you keep ahead of the Tech curve & get most of the cultural wonders, you can win with 3 uber cities. The opponents are rather aggressive on higher levels, but culture enhances your defense, and computer opponents lose their aggression if you keep giving them techs & money (Which you can get by selling techs to others). You might need the right leader to pull it off on any significantly hard difficulty (I'm thinking Industrious + Philosophical would be best).

    You can also take other cities via culture, and much more reliably than in III. So yeah, get a new graphics card & play. It's worth it.