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Sony's Solid State 2.4 Pound Laptop Reviewed

An anonymous reader writes "Last week Sony finally launched its super slim, super sexy TZ series of laptops in the US. If you've been waiting to get your hands on one of these, check out this first review of the top drawer TZ12VN, complete with solid state hard disk. It's a lot of money, but it sure looks sweet!"

33 of 214 comments (clear)

  1. Flash Drives by Eightyford · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anyone know how long do these flash drives last?

    1. Re:Flash Drives by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Anywhere between 100,000 and 5,000,000 write cycles, depending on the quality of the flash media.

      This may or may not be a lot more than a conventional hard drive depending on abuse; in a perfect world, a conventional harddrive would last much longer, but in a laptop, with all the bouncing, the odds are closer to even.

      Either way, I wouldn't want to keep anything unique on a laptop.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:Flash Drives by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think it would be nice if you could just throw 2+ gigs of RAM in one of these things, and disable the swap space, so as not to tax your harddrive. This is probably one of the major culprits for writing lots of data the the hard drive. If you get rid of that, you'd probably greatly increase the life of the drive. Also, with 2 Gigs of RAM, most people would have absolutely no need for swap space.

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    3. Re:Flash Drives by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Funny

      Anyone know how long do these flash drives last? Not long underwater. Don't ask.
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    4. Re:Flash Drives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Basically every modern flash device has wear leveling. As I understand it, this means that putting swap on a separate partition will do absolutely nothing to protect your data if the flash drive gets so worn that it starts to wear out.

    5. Re:Flash Drives by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Other than IBM selling a 15.8 gig drive for around a grand, I've seen a few companies that I've never heard of before selling these, but that seems to be basically it.

      Solid state disks are memory products, so it's the memory vendors that will be selling them. That means that companies like Transcend and Super Talent are the brands you should be expecting to see.

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    6. Re:Flash Drives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep. They should just have a slot so you could stick in a 2GB micro-sd card as a sacrificial swap partition. Those things are getting so cheap that by the time you need a new one, it won't be that bad at all to buy another to slap in there.

    7. Re:Flash Drives by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Anywhere between 100,000 and 5,000,000 write cycles, depending on the quality of the flash media.

      This may or may not be a lot more than a conventional hard drive depending on abuse; in a perfect world, a conventional harddrive would last much longer, but in a laptop, with all the bouncing, the odds are closer to even. No, it is pretty much many, many years longer than a spinning disk of equivalent size. In summary, at the absolute worst case of continuous streaming writes at maximum throughput it will take roughly 25 years to fail.

      Another benefit that flash has over spinning disk is that almost all failure modes are at write time, so the hardware can detect the error and write to a spare flash cell without the user experiencing any problems. Error detection on rotating media is almost always at read-time, usually long after it is too late to recover from.

      See here for the gory details.

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    8. Re:Flash Drives by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Informative
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  2. but by thatskinnyguy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Will it run linux?

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  3. SSDs by Nimsoft · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's good we're finally starting to see SSDs starting to ship as an option in notebooks. Mechanical hard drives have served us well but I for one can't wait for the speed and reliability increases we're going to see in the future with Solid State.

    How much time do you spend each day waiting for your drive to stop churning? The hard drive is certainly the weakest link in my system when it comes to performance!

  4. Re:Since we're talking about Vaio's here, by Suspended_Reality · · Score: 3, Funny

    Flimsy state? Not phallic enough. Solid state? Rock on.

  5. £ or lb? by Eudial · · Score: 5, Funny

    Either this is a very cheap, or a very light laptop.

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  6. Just a little too spendy at the moment... by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 3, Informative

    Glancing through the description, I saw the prices quoted, and thought "heck....that's not too bad...".

    Then, I noticed that the thing in front of the numbers wasn't a dollar sign...it was a pound sign. :(

    (Just for reference, the current exchange rate is: 1.00 GBP = 2.05749 USD.)

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    1. Re:Just a little too spendy at the moment... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Informative

      (Just for reference, the current exchange rate is: 1.00 GBP = 2.05749 USD.)
      Hardware prices don't necessarily exchang along with the cash exchange rates.

      For example (using another Sony product) the PS3 released at GBP 425 for the same unit that cost USD 599 in the US. Exchange was more along the lines of 1.9 at the time, but even so, the US-purchased machine was far cheaper after currency conversion.

      I expect the US pricing for this laptop to be significantly under $4000 USD.

      I know, everyone jokes about the 1.0000 exchange rates for electronics (and beer, FWIW) -- but they don't necessarily mention the wage exchange rate. As a percentage of income, the pricing on electronics is similar in the US and the UK.
      --
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  7. Re:$4000? by Nimsoft · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sure, it's not exactly worth it yet unless you've got the money anyway or specifically require a small, lightweight machine with a Solid State drive, however this is still good news regardless.
    This is progress and it means the cheaper SSD notebooks are just around the corner once this technology becomes mainstream.

  8. Still need swap space at 2gb by Weaselmancer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Also, with 2 Gigs of RAM, most people would have absolutely no need for swap space.

    Not so sure about that. The article did mention it came pre-installed with Vista, FYI. And the reviewer said he uses Photoshop on it.

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    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
  9. light and cheap alternatives by lumierang · · Score: 2, Informative

    As for light and cheap laptop i have to point out the Asus EEEhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee. 2lb, 7inch LCD, 900 MHz Pentium M , 512 MB DDR2-400, 4 or 8 GB flash Solid state drive, Starting at $200, perfect for portable needs

  10. Re: wireless issues by andrewd18 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The two greatest resources I've found for finding Linux wireless card drivers are:

    http://linux-wless.passys.nl/
    http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/joomla/index.ph p?/component/option,com_openwiki/Itemid,33/id,list /

    Between those two, I've never had a problem finding drivers. Maybe you could point your friend in that direction.

  11. Answer me this by spun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a tech site. Techies are interested in new technology. New technology is sold, not given away. Is Slashdot simply not supposed to mention any new technology? What is the difference between a "Slashvertisement" and an interesting story about new technology?

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  12. Re:design . . . by Xybre · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I know, this is Slashdot and no one RTFA, but the article did state that Vaio had a lot of those features first, and Apple later copied them. Is this really a surprise?

    Additionally, the specs for this laptop, what with the solid state drive, the led backlighting, and the carbon fiber construction, Apple has nothing that compares, their machines are different, but they'd be at least as expensive if they used all these features, and I'm sure more.

    Keep in mind I'm typing this from an iMac and I have a boycott going for Sony. ;)

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  13. Swap is good by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Swap means that stuff that genuinely is NEVER used can be swapped out and forgotten about. That means more space for a disk cache or a write buffer, which, in turn, means fewer writes to the disk.

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  14. Re:Super Sexy?! by abigor · · Score: 4, Funny

    Give it a rest, fatso.

  15. Why are flash hard drives so expensive??? by MoxFulder · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Why are flash hard drives SO EXPENSIVE? It's $300 for a 16gb 2.5" IDE drive on Newegg!!!

    On the other hand, a 16gb CompactFlash card is only $140 . And the CompactFlash interface is electrically identical to IDE/PATA, so you can use a $5 mechanical adapter to connect a CompactFlash card to your notebook's hard drive bay.

    What am I missing here???
    • I can make my own 16gb solid-state IDE disk for only $150 (and 32gb CF cards are coming out in a few months).
    • Does the $300 Transcend solid-state disk include any additional caching features or other speed-up? (the web site doesn't say: http://www.transcendusa.com/Products/ModDetail.asp ?ModNo=164&SpNo=3&LangNo=0)
    • Are the 32gb disks anything more than just a little RAID0 chip with two 16gb CF cards attached?


    Inquiring minds want to know. Maybe I can start selling cheapo 16gb solid state drives on eBay for $180 and make a killing :)
    1. Re:Why are flash hard drives so expensive??? by MoxFulder · · Score: 4, Informative

      make sure your cf-ide adapter supports dma transfers. The CF-IDE adapter is simply a passive mechanical adapter... nothing more than a connector between the pins of the CF card and the pins of the IDE header.

      However, you bring up a good point: if the CF card doesn't support DMA, it will be quite slow. The one I linked to apparently doesn't support DMA :-( Anyone know what the prices are like for 16gb CF cards that do support UDMA mode 4? An 8gb CF card supporting DMA costs $110... and it is made by Transcend. It sounds like they may be the leading maker of CF cards that support DMA.

      Hopefully other manufacturers will catch up quick, since DMA capabilities don't depend on the raw NAND flash chips, only on the controller chip... so the cost to manufacture a CF card supporting DMA should barely increase.
    2. Re:Why are flash hard drives so expensive??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      many of the cf-ide adapters do not have 2 pins connected on either end (I forget which pins they are, but I had to solder them in on a cheap adapter to get our transcends to work effectively. we ended up buying addonics adapters http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_read er/ad44midecf.asp
      because they support dma.

    3. Re:Why are flash hard drives so expensive??? by danbert8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The flash disks have much higher transfer rates. That $140 CF card is only 40x. If you can live with slow transfer rates, go for it. You'll still get quicker access times than a hard drive. You win some, you lose some.

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    4. Re:Why are flash hard drives so expensive??? by llZENll · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The main difference are the write/read cycles the drives can take, SSDs have built in algorithms to evenly spread the writes out over the disk over time, which greatly increases the life of the disk, granted you could probably do this in software, but its another thing to deal with. Standard CF/SD memory can only take a few hundred thousand cycles, which as a system disk is gone in a very short time.

      So a CF/SD SSD would work and be cheaper, but would probably not last very long, and be slower.

  16. Re: wireless issues by MoxFulder · · Score: 2, Informative

    The two greatest resources I've found for finding Linux wireless card drivers are:

    http://linux-wless.passys.nl/ That site is awesome. Thanks for the link! I've been hoping for a searchable database of linux-friendly wireless cards for a while (even thought about making my own)!
  17. A Few Days or Essentially Forever by arrianus · · Score: 5, Informative

    Flash media will typically have about 100,000 read/write cycles before failing. It's sometimes advertised as millions, but practically, no one makes media that goes over 300k, and no one makes media that goes under maybe 10k. Used naively (e.g. CompactFlash in an IDE-to-CF adapter as your / partition), the time to failure is on the order of days. Log files, file access times, and bits like that get written over and over and over, with some files being touched every few seconds. You've got 86,400 seconds in a day, which is in the same ballpark as flash endurance. I've seen drives fail this way.

    Used properly, however, a SSD will last forever. Typically, the drive will include load spreading somewhere in the chain. The algorithms are a bit more clever than what I'm about to describe, but naively, if you've written the same location more than a few times, you move that data to a different location. This are often implemented in the drive's firmware, but may also be implemented in the file system (Linux comes with a few flash file systems that do this -- indeed, OLPC uses one of them). Used this way, the solid state drive will last for many decades of continuous use before failing, and will eventually fail for the same mechanisms as any other old IC. A 40GB drive, written at 100Mbps, will take about an hour to overwrite completely. With an endurance of 100,000 cycles, you get a bit over 10 years of continuous write at that speed before you run into endurance limits. With normal write frequencies, that means it'll last essentially forever.

    Data is stored as charge on a conductor surrounded by insulator, but the insulator isn't perfect, and eventually, electrons do drift on and off. As a result, data stored in flash has a lifetime on the order of 10 years if it doesn't get refreshed. Of course, refreshing it is trivial (read out data, write it back).

    Of course, with a Sony laptop, the major question isn't drive lifetime, but how long until the hinges or latches break. Sony laptops typically frequently have mechanical failures within a few months of purchase. Sony skims on quality quite a bit, these days, and is mostly running on reputation for quality acquired many years ago. That, combined with shooting for the lowest possible weight (and skimming on construction quality to save weight too) makes for pretty flimsy laptops.

  18. Competition for OLPC? by johnw · · Score: 3, Funny

    Even with the current very weak dollar, 2.4 pounds sounds like a lot less than 100 dollars.

  19. Windows is not compatible with CF hard drives by bflong · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is an issue I have recent and intimate knowledge of.
    XP will *NOT* install on a standard CF card. Even with a CF/IDE converter, Windows sees the CF card as a "Removable Device" and will not install to it. Windows also will only ever see one partition on a removable device. It's also broken when trying to format an existing partition during install, and it corrupts itself when trying to expand it's C: partition when installing from a sysprep'ed disk image. The only way I was able to get it installed was to create a sysprep image the exact size that the finished install will be and write it directly to the flash drive. It's kind of funny to double click on "My Computer" and see the C: drive show up as a removable device with a little removable type icon. This guys blog details the issues a bit more:

    http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/12/windows-xp-em bedded-gotchas.html

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    1. Re:Windows is not compatible with CF hard drives by visdog · · Score: 3, Informative