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PubPat Kills Four Key Monsanto Patents

IP Ergo Sum writes "PubPat's request for reexamination resulted in the rejection of four key Monsanto patents. According to PubPat, those particular patents were being used to 'harass, intimidate, sue — and in many cases bankrupt — American farmers.'"

57 of 436 comments (clear)

  1. victory! by The+Clockwork+Troll · · Score: 5, Funny

    VICTORY IS (nutra)SWEET.

    --

    There are no karma whores, only moderation johns
    1. Re:victory! by jank1887 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      but only if you consume 50 times your body weight over a course of 2 weeks...

  2. Finally by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's about time - but attacking the patents one by one is not a real long term solution, changes to legislation is the only thing that can fix the problem of frivolous patents.

    --
    Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    1. Re:Finally by fermion · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Another way to look at patents is as a mechanism to facilitate the transfer of ideas to the public domain. Such a view is supported by the traditional requirement that a patent be detailed enough so someone versed in the appropriate techniques could reproduce the object being patented.

      Here are the two current options for an inventor. The first is to keep the process secret, and try to sell enough product before it is reversed engineered. Such an approach not only wastes a societies resources by shifted creative power from new problems to problems that have already been solved, but provides little predictability for business.

      The second option is the patent. Put the details of the product out in the public. Accept the protection of the government for 10 years. This gives a predictable interval in which to market the product. It also gives a predictable interval in which to improve the product so it can compete with any copies that might eventually be placed on the market. In exchange for such protection, other can use the ideas to develop new non-competing products immediately, and eventually develop copies of the product for wider consumption. This is a win/win for everyone as the inventor has time to exploit the product commercially, especially in today's mass produced market, and society is allowed to exploit the idea intellectually.

      Here is why I disagree with protecting the little guy, or anyone for that matter. First, it is difficult to define. A patent may be granted to a little guy, who may grow into a big guy or sell to a big guy. Is the patent to depend on this? Second, such reasoning lends itself to extend the period of patents, and even copyright for that matter. I would argue that given the reduction in production times, the patent and copyright time should be reduced, or altered based on production dates. For instance a drug might take 5-10 years to enter mass production, and therefore might need a longer patent, but one can imagine all sorts of other products that might only require a five year patent. Likewise, it is inconceivable that Disney has not already exploited the derivitive characters fully, and those characters should be put back in the public domain.

      By focusing on return on investment, rather than encouraging innovation in society, one gets into the situation where IP does in fact halt innovation, especially where a five year product cycle seems long.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  3. A great step, but only a small battle won.... by Bananatree3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Monopolies are at best bad for the market, and at worst bad for Humanity. In this case, Monsanto's monopolizing has caused a lot of grief for many traditional farmers who save the previous year's crop seeds. This kind of thing really makes me sick.

    1. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is that the frankenfood spreads pollen just like the normal plants, you can't filter pollen outdoors.

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    2. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by arth1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      True, and it's clearly the responsibility of those who DO sell and grow GM food to prevent it from spreading. If they can't do that, why then they should not be allowed to grow it.

      (Allowing sexually reproductive GM life in the first place seems to me to be a Very Bad Idea.)

    3. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by logicnazi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really? Why?

      Why isn't it the responsibility of the non-GM crops to prevent their pollen from fertilizing the GM farmers crops? If I breed a new strain of corn using traditional techniques is it my responsibility to make sure that doesn't fertilize anyone else's corn as well?

      Don't get me wrong I agree that GM crops should require more extensive testing before they are declared safe but the idea that they can never be declared safe is just absurd. Of course we can't ever know something won't hurt us but that doesn't stop us from making reasonable calculations about risk. Of course biotech companies shouldn't be allowed to shut down a farmer just because his crops happened to get pollinated by GM material (I have no idea if this really happens) but that's just saying that we should treat GM crops sanely.

      Any chance from the past is a risk whether it is faster computers (they might take over!!) or a new variety of crops. Dogmatically insisting that no type of GM crop could ever be safe enough to be worth the risk of letting it's pollen out into the wild is just silly.

      In other words what's wrong with just deciding about each GM crop on a case by case basis using the best available science at the time (including the certainty we have in that science)?

      --

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    4. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by kestasjk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      frankenfood Frankenfood? You mean food that doesn't need to be sprayed with (as much) pesticide because it's biologically resistant to insects?

      Genetic engineers notice an organism that does something that would be useful in another organism. If possible they isolate the protein(s) that create the useful effect. They then isolate the DNA that expresses that protein. They then insert that DNA into the other organism, and the protein is subsequently produced in the other organism.

      Genetic engineering is just a way of putting useful proteins from one organism into another. Agriculture on a modern scale doesn't stand a chance without either genetic engineering or massive amounts of fertilizer and pesticide.

      Genetic engineering isn't "natural", but then again agriculture itself isn't "natural". If you consider genetic engineering a "frankenfood" what about the walking udders, walking fur coats, unnaturally sized fruits, bizarre inbred wolves, etc, etc. Just because that genetic engineering was done with artificial selection doesn't make it any less natural.

      If you want natural; starve, along with the billions of others that this planet couldn't naturally support. I have no idea what people have against genetic engineering. (Though I completely understand anti-Monsanto sentiment of course)
      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    5. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by jimicus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Monopolies are at best bad for the market

      The whole point of a patents system is limited monopolies to help the market. Without such a system, there's nothing stopping me from spending 10 years in a shed developing a revolutionary new vacuum cleaner, bringing it to market - and then you waltzing into a shop, buying one, copying it and selling it for half the price I do.

      The point of a capitalist society is that the "10 years in a shed" bit gets rewarded with a time-limited monopoly, so instead of simply putting up with the status quo and accepting that all vacuum cleaners suck (if you'll pardon the pun), I have an incentive to do something about it above and beyond "making my house 4% cleaner".

      Where monopolies do harm the market is where the system is abused. The obvious solution to that is a system which isn't terribly open to abuse. Many of today's patent laws were put together at a time when nobody imagined that a company might patent a genetically modified seed and then sue farmers for saving some from last years' crop for this year, or that a huge economy around software (which changes far faster than many other fields of innovation, and is thus not well served by 15-20 year monopolies) would develop.

    6. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The output of the GM crops are that much better. Thats why. When you spend X dollars to plant on the finite amounts of land you have control over and can plant the GM crops that not only increase yields by 30+ percent but cut cost on the X figures by needing less chemicals or pesticides the amount of monetary advantage they present is almost insane.

      The people who are using the regular crops are traditionalist or people who see a use/market for the crops. Most of the people I know who are against the GM crops and are actually farmers are in that position because of the contracts and not any perceived threats from the genetic managment of the seeds. They don't like the idea of having to pay extra for seeds if they have a bad year.

    7. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by ray-auch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I breed a new strain of corn using traditional techniques is it my responsibility to make sure that doesn't fertilize anyone else's corn as well?

      Not normally - but then you aren't suing those others for having corn fertilized by your corn are you ?

      If you use a water sprayer to irrigate your land, is it your responsibility to make sure the water doesn't go onto my land ? Probably not. However, if you spray onto my land and then sue me for using your water, I ought to be within my rights to tell you it _is_ your responsibility to keep your water on your land.

    8. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by Slayer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sorry dude, but Mosanto's crops don't work like that. Instead they made their crops resistant to a certain herbicide. Farmers who use their crops can use that herbicide (called roundup, also owned by Mosanto) without hurting their own crops.

      It has been proven scientifically that genes can spread across species (doesn't happen often but does), so who's going to be responsible if bad herbs become resistant and would have to be weeded out manually ? You think the world can't support its populace (which is definitely not true. Starving is not causes by drought or poor harvest, it's caused by war and corrupt politicians in the countries affected). But we definitely will have a problem if decades of herbicide research go to waste because one greedy irresponsible company releases random genes out into our environment.

      If Mosanto and their brethen cared about world hunger they wouldn't sue farmers for using grain that happened to have been fertilized with their GM pollen. At the moment it appears that GM is not bad by itself but it is unprofitable unless you employ highly questionable business tactics.

    9. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by CmdrGravy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can't think of any product which has Y and would really benefit from X but doesn't have it. In any case in that scenario the maker of product Y would license the patent for X so that they could use it in their product and the consumer would get what they want. This is why you can have MP3 players in one unit rather than companies selling the battery, the headphones, the decoder chip, the circuit boards all seperately.

      In a market without patents any new innovations or products would immediately be ripped off by the biggest company with the most money and manufacturing power and the original inventor would be screwed. Pretty soon people wouldn't share their inventions any more if they could actually keep the workings secret and if they couldn't they have trouble making any money from them so in the end no one would really bother.

    10. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by misanthrope101 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, if GM crops push out non-GM owned by you on your own land, you can sue the designers. If someone's non-GM crops push out your GM crops, you can sue the designer. That would be God, per the 90% of the population that believes in Him. Good luck with that. I hear the appeals process leaves a bit to be desired.

    11. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by calcapt · · Score: 5, Informative

      At the moment, I have to call total BS. What you're saying is non factual and irresponsbile alarmist talk.

      There's little to no evidence whatsoever that GMO's are killing bees. Some scientists are worried about a link, but it's highly unlikely. Bt insect resistance doesn't even target bee species; it targets lepidoptera, diptera and coleoptera. In otherwords, butterflys/moths, flys, and beetles. What order are honey bees in? Hymenoptera.

      Furthermore, resistant plants target the larvae of susceptible insects; these bugs ingest the Bt protein, which is only toxic in basic insect midguts, and forms pores and destroys their gut. Do honey bee larvae grow on plants? No, I didn't think so. And while they do ingest pollen that worker bees bring back to hives, tests have shown that pollen with Bt is not toxic at all. [http://www.gmo-safety.eu/en/safety_science/68.doc u.html] These were done by giving adult bees and larvae Bt pollen at 100x normal concentrations.

      To sum it up, honey bees are fine after contact with Bt crops. Even larvae, which are Bt corn targets in susceptible species, were fine. Long story short, we're going to have to keep looking for a cause for CCD, and people need to stop screaming, "OMFGIT'SGMOS!" at the first sign of trouble. It's completely irresponsible, especially when there are more likely reasons for CCD, such as pathogens with extremely deleterious effects to colony health.

    12. Re:A great step, but only a small battle won.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Sorry dude, but Mosanto's crops don't work like that. Instead they made their crops resistant to a certain herbicide. Farmers who use their crops can use that herbicide (called roundup, also owned by Mosanto) without hurting their own crops."
      You are partially correct. Monsanto's crops "do work like that." They also have bt corn that protects against corn borers among other pests. Using bt corn, especially in corn on corn or 3rd year corn situations, allows you to get away with using no pesticides in some situations. These traits may also be "stacked". You can have RoundUp Ready corn that also has the bt gene. A note about RoundUp which you mentioned was owned by Monsanto. The corn is actually resistant to the chemical glysophate which is commercially available is hundreds of generic forms (Buccaneer Plus, Touchdown Total, etc...) and these are perfectly safe to spray on RoundUp ready corn or Roundup ready soybeans so you don't have to double pay Monsanto. The specific traits in the seed are also licensed to just about every major player in the seed market although a technology fee does go to Monsanto(in the US anyway).
      I live in Wisconsin and work at a feed mill/grain elevator and am licensed to apply pesticides to agricultural crops so this is a subject I understand. By the way Monsanto is a major pain in the backside to deal with even for legit businesses selling there products.

  4. Re:Naaaah by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yea, it's one step forward after the 2,401,323 steps we've taken back in the last few years!

    --
    I hate printers.
  5. Re:mirror request by sodul · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not a mirror but a short article on the case here.

  6. Patents on life are STUPID. by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Patenting / copyright / other methods to articifially control something being copied are STUPID when applied to an entity who's sole purpose is to make copies of itself.

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
  7. Patents in question by evanbd · · Score: 4, Informative

    5164316: DNA construct for enhancing the efficiency of transcription

    5196525: DNA construct for enhancing the efficiency of transcription

    5322938: DNA construct for enhancing the efficiency of transcription

    5352605: Chimeric genes for transforming plant cells using viral promoters

    Yes, the first three have the same title. I haven't read any of them yet. You can find the full text on the USPTO web site. Search by patent number here.

  8. Re:mirror request by eclectro · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is another article to tide you over until the tech details are available again. It seems that they are centered around the roundup ready seeds.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  9. The impact is much bigger in India... by jkrise · · Score: 4, Insightful

    70% of the Indian population is dependant on agriculture for their livelihood - it was closer to 80% a few decades ago. Monsanto has tied up with Indian companies, and it's business practices have driven several hundreds of farmers to debts and suicide. BT (Biologically Treated) cotton from Mahyco (if I remember right) has caused havoc in farmers' lives in several Indian states.

    Monsanto specialises in technologies that make farmers dependant on these firms every year for seeds and patented techniques. Not only should such patents be outlawed; it should be made a crime to work against nature and create genetic modifications that prevent seeds from germinating.

    --
    If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
  10. Second try by jeti · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sorry. Missed a paragraph when pasting. Here's the relevant text:

    The largest recorded judgment made thus far in favor of Monsanto as
    a result of a farmer lawsuit is $3,052,800.00. Total recorded judgments
    granted to Monsanto for lawsuits amount to $15,253,602.82. Farmers have
    paid a mean of $412,259.54 for cases with recorded judgments.
    Startling though these numbers are, they do not begin to tell the whole
    story. Many farmers have to pay additional court and attorney fees and are
    sometimes even forced to pay the costs Monsanto incurs while investigating
    them. Final monetary awards are not available for a majority of the 90 lawsuits
    CFS researched due to the confidential nature of many of the settlements.
    No farmer is safe from the long reach of Monsanto. Farmers have
    been sued after their field was contaminated by pollen or seed from someone
    else's genetically engineered crop; when genetically engineered seed from a
    previous year's crop has sprouted, or "volunteered," in fields planted with
    non-genetically engineered varieties the following year; and when they
    never signed Monsanto's technology agreement but still planted the patented
    crop seed. In all of these cases, because of the way patent law has been
    applied, farmers are technically liable. It does not appear to matter if the use
    was unwitting or a contract was never signed.

  11. Could farmers turn the tables? by beanless · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've read reports of farmers being sued by Monsanto because their crops get contaminated by GM strains via wind, animals, or farm equipment. Could the farmers sue Monsanto for polluting their crops' gene pool?

    1. Re:Could farmers turn the tables? by cliffski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      in theory maybe, but farmers tend not to have the kind of finances or legal muscle required to take on a corporate entity the size of monsanto.
      Really, it should be the governments job to keep an eye on situations like this, but when the political parties are allowed to take corporate donations, the whole system is b0rked before you start.

      --
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  12. Re:Naaaah by KillerCow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The little guy who grows the same crops as his grandfather had no problem to begin with.


    You're obviously not up-to-speed with Monsanto. What happens is that a neighboring field cross-pollinates, or some seeds blow off of a passing truck, and all of a sudden, your "grandfather's strain" has been contaminated with the patented Monsanto genes. Somehow, they test your field and they sue you. You can't argue with the DNA, so you are SOL and they shut you down, even though you never wanted their genes to start with.
  13. Re:mirror request by indy_Muad'Dib · · Score: 3, Informative

    years ago Monsanto actually got Fox News to kill a story about the adverse effects of BGH (Bovine Growth Hormone) in Humans.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axU9ngbTxKw

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&o i=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=monsanto+BGH+fox +news&spell=1

    http://www.foxbghsuit.com/

    the reporters got shit canned for it and Monsanto protected their bottom line.

    Milk is very bad for you with all this BGH in it.

    Causes Cancer.

  14. Re:Naaaah by donaldm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think you as the farmer growing normal crops could sue (IANL) for cross pollination but from what I can gather genetically modified plants should not cross pollinate. I do think that the "law" would require the farmer to prove he was innocent since it very easy for the producer of the genetic strain to prove that the farmer has their strain.

    On a side note, From what I can gather the patent on GM grain is from 1994 (I thought it went further back than that) so there is still 7 years to go, however there are many groups and even nations opposing GM grains and other GM products. Monsanto really comes across as a company that does not care about anything except being a monopoly that controls all the world's food supply. It has even gone so far as patenting pigs http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/monsa nto-pig-patent-111.

    --
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  15. short-sighted by misanthrope101 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If GM crops nudge out the conventional ones, eventually we'll be in a position where a company can starve millions of people to death at will. Legally. And since capitalism essentially equates morality with legality and profitability, who will really argue with them? People really, really need to watch The Corporation. I'm all about making a buck, but we really, really need re re-evaluate what we let corporations get away with. Do even the most materialistic among us really want a private corporation owning not only the food, but the capacity of the plants to reproduce?

    1. Re:short-sighted by NearlyHeadless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If GM crops nudge out the conventional ones, eventually we'll be in a position where a company can starve millions of people to death at will. Legally.


      That's just silly. There are lots of different kinds of seeds and lots of different kinds of crops. The patents in this case would all expire by 2011 even if they are eventually found valid.
  16. Monsanto is not your friend by cromano · · Score: 5, Informative

    For an interesting look at the Monsanto history, GM foods, gene patenting, risks and impact across North America, I recommend you watch the documentary "The Future of Food" (torrent).

    Description:

    THE FUTURE OF FOOD offers an in-depth investigation into the disturbing truth behind the unlabeled, patented, genetically engineered foods that have quietly filled U.S. grocery store shelves for the past decade.

    From the prairies of Saskatchewan, Canada to the fields of Oaxaca, Mexico, this film gives a voice to farmers whose lives and livelihoods have been negatively impacted by this new technology. The health implications, government policies and push towards globalization are all part of the reason why many people are alarmed by the introduction of genetically altered crops into our food supply.

    Shot on location in the U.S., Canada and Mexico, THE FUTURE OF FOOD examines the complex web of market and political forces that are changing what we eat as huge multinational corporations seek to control the world's food system. The film also explores alternatives to large-scale industrial agriculture, placing organic and sustainable agriculture as real solutions to the farm crisis today.

    IMDB link. [imdb.com] ... and don't get me started on the "terminator gene".

    -Sin Maíz no hay País-

  17. Feudalism... by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 4, Informative

    I hate to be a jerk, but I have to question why the farmers just don't stick to their traditional crops (versus the GM versions) if Monsanto is so horrible. Not one is forcing them to buy GM seeds (they could have kept saving and resuing their old seeds forever, without having to buy anything from Monsanto). So either buying Monsanto seeds isn't a losing deal (i.e. the farmers still make more money than they would have otherwise) or the farmers have poor judgement. Am I missing something?

    It seems to me that a lot of them are pretty much suckered into it. They are made to think that this is the latest thing in modern agriculture and that it will benefit them with higher crop yields and thus higher profit margins. To people who are often already having trouble turning a profit this is hard to refuse. Not that is easy to get your hands on unmodified seed stock any more. To add insult to injury even if you inadvertently planted GM seeds you are also fucked. To quote TFA:

    American farmers are hard pushed to find high quality, conventional varieties of corn, soy and cottonseed. Anecdotal evidence supports this. Troy Roush, an Indiana soybean farmer says, "You can't even purchase them in this market. They are not available." Similar reports come from the corn and cotton farmers who say, "There are not too many seeds available that are not genetically altered in some way.".....

    .....Farmers are under pressure to confirm their identity as modern agriculturalists, particularly in developing countries. But replacing the traditional strategy of saving and replanting seeds from diverse varieties by a patented seed with all its restrictions threatens food security at household and global levels......

    .....A further example is seed dealers who sell seeds in plain brown bags so farmers sow them unknowingly. This happened to Farmer Thomason who was harassed into court by Monsanto and sued for over a million dollars. He had no choice but to file for bankruptcy despite never intending to plant Bt cotton.

    Here's another choice quote:

    Researchers at the University of Manitoba, Canada tested 33 samples of certified canola (oilseed rape) seed stock and 32 were contaminated with GM. The Union of Concerned Scientists tested traditional US seed stocks of corn, soy and canola and found 50% corn, 50% soy and 83% canola contaminated by GM.

    One hundred percent purity is no longer achievable, and even if non-contaminated seed could be purchased, some contamination can take place in the field either by transfer of seed by wind, animals or via farm equipment.

    Monsanto dominates the sale of seed stocks yet puts the onus of finding markets for crops on the farmer. Within their contract is the "Technology Use Guide" which gives directions on how to find grain handlers willing to accept crops not approved for use in the EU. While Monsanto acknowledges that pollen flow and seed movement are sufficient to contaminate neighbouring non-GM fields their implicit rule is that "the growers of the non-GM crops must assume responsibility and receive the benefit for ensuring that their crops meet specifications for purity.".....

    .....Outcomes of lawsuits brought by Monsanto against farmers are mostly kept under wraps. If farmers are tempted to breach confidentiality they can face fines greater than the settlements. But where judgments have been publicly recorded, sizeable payments benefit not only Monsanto, but also partner companies.

    Combined financial penalties have forced many farmers into bankruptcy and off their land. Agriculture is suffering losses all around because of the disappearance of foreign markets. The US Farm Bureau estimates that farmers lose over $300 million a year because European markets refuse GM corn. The US State Department says that as much as $4 billion could be lost in agricultural exports due to EU labelling and traceability requirements. Organic and conventional farmers

    --
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    -- Henning von Tresckow
  18. Re:Naaaah by erroneus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Until recently, that hasn't been successful. You really haven't been following this tragic, unreported story-line. See, their [Monsanto] lawyers are bigger than the farmers' lawyers and that's who has historically won. So on one hand, when they sue for their accidental contamination, they use various arguments such as "it can't be helped, it's nature and nature's function" or "these GM seeds had made your crops better and we counter-sue" or "no, you must have stolen it! and we counter-sue" and on and on.

  19. Re:Naaaah by xaxa · · Score: 5, Informative
    This article: http://www.i-sis.org.uk/MonsantovsFarmers.php suggests otherwise.
     

    Researchers at the University of Manitoba, Canada tested 33 samples of certified canola (oilseed rape) seed stock and 32 were contaminated with GM. The Union of Concerned Scientists tested traditional US seed stocks of corn, soy and canola and found 50% corn, 50% soy and 83% canola contaminated by GM.
    One hundred percent purity is no longer achievable, and even if non-contaminated seed could be purchased, some contamination can take place in the field either by transfer of seed by wind, animals or via farm equipment.

    It goes on to say that because of cross-contamination 'organic' crops often aren't organic any more.
  20. Re:Naaaah by MrMr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're probably both right: The EU treats unwanted GM-cross pollination as bio-terrorist rape, while the US considers anything that might reduce the profit of a paying supporter as an attempt to overthrow the best government money can buy.

  21. Re:Why Is There Such Opposition To Biological Pate by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why do I feel the need to feed the trolls?

    Because there's a chance that you're making a sincere argument? Yeah, probably...

    If Monsanto's GM patented genes were "containable" then I would say there's good argument for your side of this. But the problem lies and always has lied in it being uncontainable. Accidents of all sorts have happened and worse. One of Monsanto's tests is to kill a section of a farmer's field. If it doesn't die, then it contains their GM patented genes. (If the witch floats...) There is pollination as a problem... the GM patented gene plants give even if they don't receive. And seeds ALSO have a way of blowing in the wind in the cases where the seed IS the product like wheat.

    But ultimately, there are far too many innocent people being harmed by this one corporation. This one corporation, by itself, has managed to harm humanity in ways that are simply unprecedented. If you truly believe that the value of money is of higher importance than that of the future of humanity, you need to rethink your position on this since the odds are good that you are also human.

    Just as patents on medicines are used to deprive people unable to pay for it from life, these patents on food are used to deprive people unable to defend themselves growing their own crops.

    There's an entire planet out here that doesn't care about "the value of a stock" and the systems of nature do no ask permission from lawyers.

  22. Re:Naaaah by NearlyHeadless · · Score: 4, Informative

    Until recently, that hasn't been successful. You really haven't been following this tragic, unreported story-line. See, their [Monsanto] lawyers are bigger than the farmers' lawyers and that's who has historically won. So on one hand, when they sue for their accidental contamination, they use various arguments such as "it can't be helped, it's nature and nature's function" or "these GM seeds had made your crops better and we counter-sue" or "no, you must have stolen it! and we counter-sue" and on and on.
    As far as I am aware there has been one farmer who claimed that the seed ended up on his land accidentally. He claimed this even though 95 to 98 percent of his 1,000 acres of canola crop was made up of Roundup Ready plants! The trial judge found that "none of the suggested sources [proposed by Schmeiser] could reasonably explain the concentration or extent of Roundup Ready canola of a commercial quality" ultimately present in Schmeiser's crop ((2001), 202 F.T.R. 78, at para. 118). That is, he was lying.

    In all the cases that are cited in the PubPat press release [prnewswire.com] the acts are intentional. No one is claiming accidental contamination.

  23. Should he have burnt his crop? by MikePlacid · · Score: 5, Informative

    In the wikipedia article you cited, the sequence of events in Schmeiser case is as follows:

    1. Schmeiser field was contaminated by Roundup Ready gene.
    2. Schmeiser discovered this and decided to harvest, save seeds and plant them next year.
    3. He has not used Roundup at all, so his decision in 2 was not because he wanted a free benefit, but just because he did not want to burn contaminated crop.
    4. Appelate courts split 5:4. 5 for "use" means "any use", 4 for "use" means "for profit use".

    Should he have burnt his contaminated harvest? Why? He was not under contract with Monsanto.

  24. Re:Naaaah by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yea, it's one step forward after the 2,401,323 steps we've taken back in the last few years!
    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. -Lao Tzu
    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  25. Re:Naaaah by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In all the cases that are cited in the PubPat press release [prnewswire.com] [prnewswire.com] the acts are intentional.
    That's the problem with patenting plants. Intention is a difficult thing to prove absolutely when you're talking about pollination. As we all learned from Jurrasic Park, DNA is a hard thing to control.
    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  26. "American" farmers? by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It always bothers me when I see a patriotic rallying cry that points out the pain to "Americans". Are you saying it wouldn't be so bad/unethical if the companies were harming non-Americans?

    1. Re: "American" farmers? by evilviper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are you saying it wouldn't be so bad/unethical if the companies were harming non-Americans?

      US Patents only apply in the US, in other words, to AMERICANS. These US Patents have nothing to do with non-Americans, except perhaps very few immigrants, if you want to get pedantic.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  27. Not as silly as you'd think by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

    If GM crops nudge out the conventional ones, eventually we'll be in a position where a company can starve millions of people to death at will. Legally.
    That's just silly. There are lots of different kinds of seeds and lots of different kinds of crops. The patents in this case would all expire by 2011 even if they are eventually found valid.
    A Union of Concerned Scientists study found that of "non-GM" seed stock tested in the U.S., 50% of the corn, 50% of the soybeans, and 83% of the canola were already cross-contaminated with GM material. If Monsanto had their way, anyone using that cross-contaminated seed would have to be paying them for a license if the patent belonged them. When that number reaches 100%, it'd basically be pay Monsanto or you can't farm.

    I am not against patents on an innovate breed of crop manufactured through genetic engineering per se. But the way Monsanto is pursuing farmers right now would be like if the RIAA demanded you pay for a copy of a CD whenever someone listening to a song simply drove by you in his car with his windows open. If Monsanto wants the benefit of patent-backed monopoly pricing on their product, then the onus should be on them to insure that people wishing to opt out of that monopoly have a clear means to do so.

  28. Alternative to Future of Food Doc: Harvest of Fear by calcapt · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/harvest/

    Harvest of Fear is a documentary on GMOs as well, produced by PBS. If anyone watches Future of Food, they should watch Harvest of Fear. This is primarily because I thought Future of Food (as another reply to this parent pointed out) seems to have been designed to scare the viewer shitless. Harvest of Fear, on the other hand, provides arguments and counter arguments for nearly every topic brought up, without the dramatics and theatrics featured in the Future of Food. You might find yourself agreeing with one viewpoint, and another take on that viewpoint will be brought up, and it gets you thinking.

    In any case, it's good to watch the 2 and compare/contrast the views.

  29. Re:Naaaah by yoder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "...while the US considers anything that might reduce the profit of a paying supporter as an attempt to overthrow the best government money can buy."

    Bingo!

    "All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field." ~Albert Einstein

    "Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where they is no river." ~Nikita Khrushchev

    "The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." ~P.J. O'Rourke

    --
    "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act!" -- George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair)
  30. Re:Naaaah by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Funny

    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. -Lao Tzu It then needs to be followed by a million more. - Me
    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  31. OT: Bee's are dieing due to Asian Parasite by mrand · · Score: 3, Informative

    >

    Read more at:

    http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid /43163/story.htm

    (yes, this is off topic for the overall article... but I felt it was important enough to post this rather than use my moderation points)

    --
    -- PGP keyID: 0x4C95994D
  32. FUD about GMOs by MaizeMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    >We evolved in the same biosphere as insects, so changes to a plant to prevent the insect from being able to eat them may also have effects on us

    Great, sounds logical. Until you learn that the CRY proteins expressed by bt crops crystalize into their toxic form only under highly basic conditions. Because we took different evolutionary paths for millions of years, our stomachs are highly acidic while insects stomachs are highly basic. On top of that you've been eating the CRY proteins on organic food for decades, as spraying with bacteria producing those proteins has long been considered an organic form on pest control.

    "GMOs are designed for one reason, to make money."

    Monsanto's GMOs are designed for one reason, to make money. Fixed that for you. ;) I've known a lot of scientists who've spent years and years developing crops with no commercial incentive (either crops that aren't grown in the industrialized world, or adding traits that are only of value to subsistance/small scale farmers). You can talk all you'd like about how starvation is a policy problem, but it's people who paint all genetic engineering with too broad a brush who're holding up the approval of crops like golden rice (4,000 children die of vitamin-A deficency every day) and virus resistant cassava. Its very easy to say there's no need for GMOs when you live in a country where most nutrition problems are caused by too much food rather than too little.

  33. Re:Naaaah by pjabardo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Let me just tell you about some problems in Brazil. There is a state, Parana that was trying to stay GM free. Federal justice said that a state can not rule on that and they had to open up to GM soy bean. Non GM grain has a higher value (europe doesn't buy GM grain). Taxes are paid when the grain arrives on the port. If you declare that you are producing GM grain, you will pay 2% taxes. If you don't declare that, the government will test your production for GM grain. If the government finds more than 1% of GM grain, your crop is considered GM and the taxes rise to 3% and you have to pay for the tests, which is quite expensive (I don't know how much). 1% GM limit is easily reached through cross-pollination. They still have to pay royalties to Monsanto.

    Since these costs are fairly high, many producers are choosing to declare their crops GM. Overall effects: basically, you can not choose to grow non GM crops.

  34. Re:Naaaah by zstlaw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Um I have heard of ONE case where Monsanto was unsuccessful and that farmer still lost 50 years of selective breeding work since he was ordered to destroy all his own seed crop. (http://commonground.ca/iss/0401150/percy_schmeise r.shtml) That means he was required to plant new seed which will probably be GM encumbered. Also his neighbors still grow Monsanto crop so he won't be able to save seeds then either. Essentially he has to now buy seed every year after 50 years of planting his own.

    He also spent years in court losing lots of time and money.

    Several people responded to you and your responders with no clue on this subject. Yes he was sued for have 90% contamination (numbers supplied by Monsanto testing) A round of testing by the University of Manitoba at the farmers request found that two of his fields had no contamination. Others had one percent, some had two percent and one had eight percent. In the ditch along the fields where we first noticed it, contamination was around 60 percent.

    The GM crop is designed to resist being poisoned by roundup. He didn't use roundup so there was no benefit to him having the seeds. To the ignoramus that spouted "he had like 90% of course he was buying seed", well the RCIA says that disk you own is worth 150,000 they must be right, huh? It isn't in their interest to lie in their favor in the court is it?

  35. Re:Naaaah by zstlaw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Gah, I just re-read the judgment and it does sound like the the original court judge found him as having deliberately planted Monsanto seed. (He had a field he tested for resistance (usign roundup to kill all non-resistant plants), 60 percent survived. He kept this seed seperate, but he later had the seed treated and reseeded. I believe the seed from this field was what was tested and found to have the high levels of contamination. So at least one of the other links under you was well informed. There was more to the case than I remembered.

  36. Re:Naaaah by gbulmash · · Score: 4, Funny

    A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. -Lao Tzu

    It then needs to be followed by a million more. - Me

    You cover 5.28 feet in a single step? If not, then it needs to be followed by three to four million more, depending on the length of your stride. If you shuffled, you could actually make it take ten million steps.

  37. Re:Naaaah by PetoskeyGuy · · Score: 4, Funny

    That's the problem with patenting plants. Intention is a difficult thing to prove absolutely when you're talking about pollination. As we all learned from Jurrasic Park, DNA is a hard thing to control.
    And more importantly use round knobs on doors when there is possibility of raptor attacks!
    http://xkcd.com/87/
    http://xkcd.com/135/
    http://www.pitt.edu/~jrf27/cs1515/poster/jrf27.pdf (PDF proof of longest time to live)
  38. Re:Naaaah by xENoLocO · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'd take 5 steps to my car. :)

    --
    "The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."
  39. Re:Why Is There Such Opposition To Biological Pate by erroneus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll try to make this as simple as possible:

    Healthcare shouldn't be an "industry." It is and should always be a service. It's not a product and it shouldn't be a product. Health shouldn't be treated as a commodity to be bought or sold and certainly not the exclusive domain of the wealthy or the privileged. Technology and development of technology ultimately belongs to all of humanity. It is a "favor" that any given governmental body rewards those who develop things that benefit the world a temporary monopoly, but it is exactly when that monopoly is abused or used as a weapon to stifle other business, the rights of individuals, or otherwise adversely affect the world or mankind, then that monopolist should be stopped in some way.

    Business that serves people in delivering things that people need for survival such as healthcare and food should be held outside of normal business in that their practices do not follow the normal supply and demand market paradigm. The demand doesn't vary based on supply or pricing. There will always be a need for healthy foods. There will always be a need for quality healthcare. And to allow profit-seeking business to adversely affect peoples lives so that they can "protect their property" (which is ultimately given to them "by the people") is not just an immoral act, but an act against the interests of humanity.

    As the food industry goes, (the original topic here?) should Monsanto and companies like them be allowed to freely pursue their aims, it would remove healthy organic foods from the market place replaced by "patented foods" which can only be grown and produced with their permission and sold by their rules. All the while, they are completely escaping the collateral harm they are causing. There are links being made, for example, between GM foods and the decline in the bee population. (Bees are an indispensable and irreplaceable part of farming and the world's ecosystems such that the extinction of bees would mean the extinction of man quite literally.) There have been many other problems identified with the use of "disease resistant" and other durable forms of GM foods as well, many of which lead directly to health problems. But as choice for healthy food diminishes, (and the cost for healthy food goes higher) the quality of life diminishes as well... they are presently not being held accountable.

    "fortunately, the bootleggers take care of that"? Are you kidding me? Profiteering and illegal acts are a "fortunate" byproduct of an already humanity-abusive system?! Are you thinking your own thoughts to conclusion?

    I have failed in being brief, but only because I see this as a critical issue.

  40. Re:Naaaah by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    WHO is going to sue the biggest agro conglomerate on the planet?
    WHO is going to shell out a minimum $5000 retainer to some lawyer just to get a consult?
    WHO is going to continue to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars at increments of $300 until the case is adjudicated in some lower court?
    WHO is going to continue to spend even more money if the first round doesn't go to the "little guy"?

    The family farmer is much like the garage inventor.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.