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Thunderbird to Leave Mozilla Foundation

Posted by Zonk on from the fewer-fowl-feather-firefox's-flanks dept.

An anonymous reader writes "MozillaZine is reporting that Mozilla Thunderbird is to move to a 'new separate organizational setting' as the Mozilla Foundation focuses more and more on Mozilla Firefox. Citing a blog post by Chief Lizard Wrangler Mitchell Baker, MozillaZine outlines the three possibilities for Thunderbird that are being considered: 'one is to create a entirely new non-profit, which would offer maximum independence for Thunderbird but is organisationally complex. A second option is to create a new subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation for Thunderbird, which would keep the Mozilla Foundation involved but may mean that Thunderbird continues to be neglected in favour of Firefox. A final option is to recast Thunderbird as community project, similar to SeaMonkey, and set up a small independent services and consulting company to continue development. However, there are concerns over how the Thunderbird product, project and company would interact'. Lead Thunderbird developer Scott MacGregor favours the third option."

18 of 239 comments (clear)

  1. Poor thunderbird by Umbral+Blot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You have to wonder why thunderbird doesn't compete as well in the email marketspace as firefox does in the browser market space. I suspect its because thunderbird doesn't really offer anything more than its competitors and because it has few must-have extensions. But it could also be the prevalence of web mail. So what would make a killer email client?

    --

    Philosophy.
    1. Re:Poor thunderbird by Denis+Lemire · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm curious as to what you cite as competitors? Might be just different for my needs but Evolution has broken IMAP support last I used it. Outlook chokes the minute your mailbox begins to get large. Apple Mail is quirky and not cross platform.

      I guess that's the just of it, what other mail clients are there that are cross platform (Mac, Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, etc) and have IMAP support that isn't broken?

      Then again, 90% of the world probably couldn't care less if their mail app of choice wasn't cross platform... ie) the same people that run to Incredimail for the purdy colors.

    2. Re:Poor thunderbird by Vidar+Leathershod · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would much prefer that they develop a peer to peer syncing for address book and calendar. I'm tired of dealing with server-side stuff for a business with 3 employees, all on an internal network. Apple Mail should do this too. I keep hearing about CalDAV and the iCal standard, but have yet to see any products that fully support what should be a basic functionality.

      Calendar functionality should be an option during install, and however it needs to be done, compatibility with Mobile devices for synchronization should be implemented. Personally, I use a cell phone, and don't or even like PIMs, but I can't stand having to deal with Outlook just so someone can use a Blackberry.

      Finally, something needs to be done in terms of simple profile migration, and the import/export features need to be more robust. For example, if you want to switch someone to Thunderbird from Outlook Express, you have to activate a profile in Outlook Express. If Thunderbird can't find it in the default location, it doesn't let you choose a WAB file. That is pitiful. Same goes for importing Thunderbird stuff into Thunderbird. It shouldn't be that difficult to prompt for a file location and take it from there.

      --
      The brains of a chicken, coupled with the claws of two eagles, may well hatch the eggs of our destruction.
  2. Third option by snoyberg · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If the Mozilla Foundation isn't as interested in Thunderbird, why would a subsidiary of it (ala the 2nd option) or a brand-new entity (ala the 1st) bring a whole lot of enthusiasm? Let the users have it.

    --
    Thank God for evolution.
    1. Re:Third option by ekstrom · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Eudora's home page http://www.eudora.com/ says that the paid mode Eudora is no longer available, and that an open source version of Eudora is being developed by Mozilla. An article at http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=2 0078 says that the new Eudora will be based on the Thunderbird engine. This is apparently the Penelope project http://wiki.mozilla.org/Penelope , which claims not to be trying to supplant Thunderbird, but may be about to do so. Would an insider please clarify all this?

  3. just curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    just curious, since Google's deal with mozilla brought in a lot of cash, did Mozilla ever pipe any of that into Thunderbird? If they did then how is it helping to seperate Thunderbird like this?

  4. Eudora on TBird by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What does this mean for the Eudora on TBird project?

  5. I hope Thnderbird sticks around by jgarra23 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I use Thnderbird at home. Every day @ work using Outlook reminds me why I prefer Thunderbird.

    I do have some gripes when it comes to the way most extensions and plugins are handled for it though, much like other people are saying...

    I'd rather see it stay in the Mozilla foundation but if it must leave then I would prefer the third option as well. The second one really sucks...

  6. Don't Crap On Tbird by tarsi210 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I, for one, am not looking forward to the idea of having Tbird as a community project, unless it is headed by a small team of very focused individuals. A mass free-for-all will simply destroy it due to feature bloat and a multitude of ideas around what an email client should be.

    What should an email client do? How about -- email. Just email. Not email and newsgroups, not email and collaboration, not email and Facebook -- just plain old simple email. Sure, I'll concede to HTML email for you folks who can't stand to not have a little color in your lives and insist on spamming my box with your yellow backgrounds and pink text, but it's still email.

    Tbird is awesome and makes almost no waves because of a) marketing -- the browser wars are much more publicized, b) marketing -- Microsoft isn't really trying to take over the world with Outlook, because they know it sucks, and c) marketing -- There's not much word-of-mouth going on because email mostly works with just about any client and people put up with it, so there's not as much of a scramble for a "good" email client.

    I love the app. It works and works and works and doesn't break and doesn't screw up one of the most important things in my online life, electronic mail. I don't want to see it backburnered by the Foundation, either, but at the same time, I'm happier thinking that the Foundation has their finger on where it's going and so far, I trust that they're not going to make it suck. So I'd be preferable to leaving it their hands for that reason.

    --
    Blog,Twitter
    1. Re:Don't Crap On Tbird by Haeleth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What should an email client do? How about -- email. Just email. Not email and newsgroups
      No thanks. Newsgroups make up a significant part of my Thunderbird usage. Take them away, and I'd have to switch to something like Outlook Express - not a pleasant thought.

      Basically, you're making the mistake of reducing Thunderbird to what you see it as useful for. But Thunderbird isn't an "email client". It's an email/NNTP/RSS client. To make it into a pure email client would be to change its very nature, and at this stage that could only lose it users.
  7. What about Eudora? by richg74 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not too long ago, Qualcomm, the publisher of the Eudora E-mail client, announced that future Eudora versions would be based on Thunderbird. Back in the bad old days when I still had to use Windows, I used Eudora for E-mail -- it was streets ahead of MS Outhouse. Perhaps Mozilla can cook up a deal with Qualcomm.

  8. Oh my.... by Brad_sk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Already Thunderbird is not that great a product, especially when compared to Firefox. I don't know whats gonna happen now - Hope it will not become just another open source project with just handful of folks using it:(

  9. Another wake up call... by mmcguigan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If anyone is surprised by this move, they weren't paying attention.

    MoFo/MoCo are owned in a serious financial way by Google. Remember the Mozilla Suite was dumped in a similar, though worse, manner just a few years ago when Google poored money all over the cash strapped Mozilla that AOL left behind. Google wasn't interested in financing the suite. Google probably stipulates that their financing only go to Firefox development, where Google is front and center in the users face. Google isn't likely to help finance a mail client where they don't see any return on investment. Google wants you to use Gmail for the ads.

    The funds Mozilla had before the Google deal were likely diverted from the suite to Thunderbird and other applications. Mozilla has likely exhausted those funds now. Thunderbird developers should join the SeaMonkey community. Together the community and the projects might survive this.

    Future prediction of a friend: When the government cracks down on MoFo's shady tax history, MoFo will go under and Google will likely buy MoCo and spin it as if they saved Mozilla.

    http://www.scroogle.org/mozilla.html

  10. OpenGroupware + Thunderbird + Lightning + plugins by Pav · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The pieces are JUST starting to come together re: replacing MS Exchange... although, granted, it's still VERY alpha/beta it's quite an exciting development.

        OpenGroupware (nightly builds) support CalDAV, and Thunderbird /w Lightning talks to it. There are other Thunderbird plugins which use GroupDAV for shared address lists and free/busy information through the OpenGroupware server.

        This works today(!), though it's non-trivial to set up, and you have to be careful about versions. The combination to use is Lightning 0.3.1, the latest Thunderbird, OpenGroupware nightly, and the latest GroupDAV free/busy and shared address lists plugins. Unfortunately the latest Sunbird/Lightning (0.5) doesn't work right now, but bugs have been filed and the developers understand the problem... and a fix will happen in time.

        OK, it's less functional and robust compared to the dominant player... but it's cheaper.

  11. The Thunderbird Foundation? by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hope they make Thunderbird have features like Outlook has, but without the security flaws.

    The Calendar extension needs more work, and so does the Address book. I need to be able to get the Address book to export to Outlook CSVs so that I can import them into my Yahoo address book, or my Timex Datalink Watch or iPaq because the Thunderbird CSV files don't work with those applications.

    Having data syncing with the calendar and address book with mobile devices, PDAs, watches, etc would be a good thing as well.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  12. Has Mozilla forgotten their mission ? by neurocutie · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From the Mozilla.org website:

    The Mozilla Foundation was established in July 2003 as a California not-for-profit corporation dedicated to the public benefit.
    ...
    There are many different ways of advancing the principles of the Mozilla Manifesto. We welcome a broad range of activities, and anticipate the same creativity that Mozilla participants have shown in other areas of the project.
    It seems that in focussing on Firefox, Mozilla is forgeting the whole point of their existence. It is a dangerous path...

    - They are becoming beholden to Google and a single project (Firefox). We don't need another Opera (nothing wrong with Opera per se), or another browser created by yet another software company. OSS is supposed to be a *different* business model, with a *broader* vision, benefitting the public, not just Google proxies or lackies.

    -It would seem that they endanger their status as a 501c3 public charity/foundation, and thus their tax-exempt status. IIRC, a 501c3 cannot accept more than 10% of their funding from any one source. At the moment Mozilla is rapidly looking like they are doing coding for hire (Firefox for Google).

    - Pushing Thunderbird forward *within* Mozilla would at least maintain some sense that 1) they are promulgating a broader mission, 2) they are doing more than what Google asks them to.

    - If Google's funding is truly earmarked for Firefox (as suggested in this thread), Mozilla should end that right now, and stipulate to Google that at least some reasonable fraction of their "donation" (e.g. 30%) MUST be in the form of an "unrestricted grant", that could and will be use for other projects in the foundation, like Thunderbird.

    Mozilla is nuts for focusing on Firefox at the expense of Thunderbird. They are losing sight of their entire unique contribution to the community, and their larger mission.

    Email is an essential function of the Internet and modern computing. If Thunderbird isn't doing so well, Mozilla should be fixing the problem and addressing those issues head-on, rather than jettisoning and punting on it.

  13. PARENT IS A SEXIST WHINER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    check his post history -- he's got a vendetta going and an axe to grind with this woman; not to mention he's got a persecution complex going because his pet bugs aren't fixed, or if they are fixed, they aren't fixed and followed up with a huge "OH THANK YOU, OH GREAT USER, FOR HELPING US FIND AND FIX THIS BUG, XXOO"

    Guess what: this world isn't all about you, pussy. Get over it. You're probably the byproduct of a set of helicopter parents.

    Don't like firefox? Find it to be too buggy? Use something else. I'm sure Microsoft will fall all over themselves to fix your reported bugs and tell you what a great tester you are and dote about how insightful and detailed your bug reports are.

  14. Re:Deal with Google (GMail?) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'll bite. How about something as simple as offering tight synchronization with gmail contacts etc in Tbird? Maybe even a tie-in to the google calendar? That might encourage more gmail account setups by people who, on occasion at least, might use the gmail web interface. Surely that would be worth something to google...