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Our ATM Is Broken, Go To Jail
Actually, I do RTFA writes "This community recently discussed possible criminal prosecution for people who took advantage of faulty slot machine software. At the time, many here drew an analogy to a hypothetical ATM that dispensed too much money. Well, apparently, that too may result in criminal charges. Although they suspect that someone may have tampered with the ATM, they are considering charging anyone who got extra money from it." Here is an editorial musing on the morality of such unexpected windfalls.
This is yet more evidence of how materialistic our society has become. It is NOT a crime to not report the observation of a beating or death. Yet it is a crime to take advantage of a faulty slot machine? Something is F'd. Big business has too damned much influence over the laws of this country. They don't care if people die as long as they get their fucking loot back.
Table-ized A.I.
when that bank errors in your favor, your screwed but when the bank errors in their favor, your screwed?
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
Didn't your local friendly MMORPG teach you the consequences of exploiting bugs?
Seriously, just because you were not the one who hacked the thing, doesn't give you the right to exploit the flow. It's like stealing stuff from a shop because the window was broken by someone else.
Accidents do happen, and it should be the burden of the prosecution to prove the defendant knew of the exploit, and not vice versa, but if you see someone withdrawing 1 grand (max daily limit) from a machine that happens to give out $20s instead of $5s (especially if person never previously withdrew such large amounts), and of course the person conveniently "forgot" to check the amount he got, then you got a pretty good circumstantial case of malicious intent, and then the defendant better have some good justification for these actions.
So, there are some people who took advantage of an ATM defect (whether bug, intentional, or accidental programming error, error in loading cash, whatever.)
The bank knows who they are.
Why don't they just debit their accounts the correct amounts and forget about it?
The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
You wouldn't go to jail for some guy's programming error, you'd go to jail for not returning what wasn't yours. Why do we feel this compulsion to take advantage of somebody else's bad luck, when that other entity is a corporation? The bank doesn't deserve to 'eat it' just because they're a bank. And insurance is merely a way to average out the cost of disasters over time and people, it doesn't wave a magic wand and make the cost go away. When there is a claim, insurance premiums go up, by more than the claims. What were your parents teaching you when you grew up?
In other words, yes, you believe corporations are evil and that people should be allowed to take advantage of them. Your rationale behind this belief is, of course, dubious, since individuals can be assholes too:
"Oh, your car broke down? So effing what? I have to get home and watch Simpsons, so I won't stop for you."
"Oh, you have extra bills to pay? Sorry about your luck. I'm going to leave without telling you that I dented your car door."
"Oh, you say you need at least $11/hour to live? Tough crap. I'm going to shoplift from your little store anyway."
"Oh, you're already just skimming your bills? Tough crap. We want this big construction project in our state, and it's too expensive to be worth it, so we want our representative to push for the federal government to pay for it instead, spreading the cost out over everyone else."
The world is full of people taking advantage of each other. It's easy to point the finger at Big Business, but it pays to remember that Big Business is run by people. We get through life in a world full of assholes by having laws that protect us from those that take things too far. The law doesn't care whether or not you like someone. It cares that you're taking something that does not belong to you, and refusing to give it back.
Since ATMs are opaque and you cannot see the contents of the money bins until you have taken money out, you have to do the "crime" before you can know that the ATM is misconfigured. Thus you are already a criminal. That doesn't make sense. Crime has to have an element of intent. If your only intent was to withdraw money owned by you from your own account, clearly no wrongdoing was intended.
But going back for seconds, after having noticed the mistake... now you're talking criminal intent.
--
I don't want to rule the world... I just want to be in charge of mayonnaise.
Because the bank has more money than you do, and therefore it is more powerful and plays by different rules.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
So here is the issue. They can bankrupt me with no significant repercussion, and don't even have to make an effort to correct the mistake unless I beg them to do so, but I have to immediately report any mistakes they make. Now, if I could claim treble damages for any mistake the bank made, and double digit damage for any mistake that was not fixed 24 hour after a report, then perhaps I could agree to civil prosecution for taking advantage of a defective machine.
Breaking a machine, or in this case taking advantage as a broken machine is criminal activity. But unless I can prosecute the CEO of bank for criminal negligence when I have no money for week due to the firms mistake, then I don't see how the bank should charge me for criminal activity when their machines give me $400 instead of $100. At most, like they do when they screwed me over, I should asked to give the money back, and perhaps, if necessary,pay a small fine. Note, however, that the bank does not offer to pay me for my inconvenience.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Isn't that weird about our culture? We punish bad behaviour with a vengeance, but rarely do we reward good behaviour.
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
It would depend on the ATM machine, the location, and the amount I withdrew.
$20 at a convenience store in a good neighbourhood during the day, I'd certainly count the cash.
A large withdrawal at a bank-run ATM at midnight downtown, I would trust the bank rather then show the world just how much cash I have in my pocket.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
Breaking a machine, or in this case taking advantage as a broken machine is criminal activity. But unless I can prosecute the CEO of bank for criminal negligence when I have no money for week due to the firms mistake, then I don't see how the bank should charge me for criminal activity when their machines give me $400 instead of $100.
...
The first time is an accident and you should not go to jail. However, if you continue asking for $100 then you are knowingly comitting a crime and should go to jail. I expect that the people to be prosecuted are those who engaged in the latter.
They can bankrupt me with no significant repercussion
You can sue them. And if the CEO knowingly repeatedly "improperly credits a bad check" he can go to jail to. Things seem perfectly symetrical to me. Either compare one accident to one accident or repeated abuse to repeated abuse, not one accident to repeated abuse.
>How dare the evil corporations tell us what to do when they erroneously give us money that isn't ours!
Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your actions. If you gave me money but you didn't intend to then why should you be be able to force me to give it back?
They made the mistake, they should suck it up and eat it. It's called taking responsibility for your actions.
Oh sorry I forget, we are talking about corporations here. They were created specifically to shirk personal responsibility.
Never mind.
evil is as evil does