Spore to Ship 'When It's Done' And Not Before

Citing the sheer potential of the title, EA executives John Riccitiello and Frank Gibeau stated in a conference call yesterday that Spore will not ship until it is finished. Next Generation reports: "'It's one of those breakthrough products that might come across the industry every three, five, seven years ... We could not be more bullish for the potential of the franchise as we are right now,' said Riccitiello. He said that he still expects the game to ship in the 'March, April, May' 2008 timeframe. However, Riccitiello said, 'We will make the choice of shipping a better game than an on-time game given the high potential for this franchise.'"

Comments

Translation:

[spun]

"Spore will ship when it is actually fun to play, instead of feeling like a session of tweaking a very complicated spreadsheet."

Re:Translation:

[the dark hero]

"Spore will ship when it is actually fun to play, instead of feeling like a session of tweaking a very complicated spreadsheet." Then, why is Eve Online successful?

Re:Translation:

[WilliamSChips]

Because EVE's target demographic is the people who like tweaking spreadsheets in such a way that it fucks people over.

Re:Translation:

[ben0207]

My accountant?

Re:Translation:

[Maserati]

I run into a lot of people in EVE who play... aggressively let's call it... on the market. The obvious example is the obvious and powerful T2 cartels that monopolized the best equipment and kept prices high. The best ships, the best cloaking fields, the best weapons, all under the control of a small group. Some items were simply available only to those in the cartel and their friends. That's been broken up by the new Invention system, but they still control a lot of the T2 production facilities.

Besides getting a monopoly on something scarce on the universe scale, local monopolies can be had. An easy way to make money is to spot a valuable item being sold below market price, but it yourself and re-sell it. When you're successful, you are literally taking money out of someone's pocket. I make a fair piece of change by exploiting gaps in the market. I found a region where the local NPCs weren't producing the cheaper classes of industrial ship. I bought and researched some blueprints and started turning surplus minerals into ships that I then sold for well over the cost of the materials. I usually buy out the inventory of anyone undercutting my prices.

Lotsa ways to mess with people without using weapons. The market is pvp too.

Coming soon

[Nf1nk]

Coming soon the Duke Nukem forever and Spore Double Pack

It's official, then...

[sykopomp]

Spore does, in fact, have the exact same official release date as Duke Nukem Forever... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_nukem_forever (check the release date)

Balancing act

[PieSquared]

Well, the delays for Spore are starting to get frustrating. On the other hand, after all these delays it better be a pretty freaking good game... which it won't be if they rush it to put an end to the delays.

Obviously no game is ever perfect, so it is up to the developers to decide the proper balance between time spent improving the game and delays before release.

That said, nobody wants another "Duke Nukem Forever." If you spend too much time on the whole "revolutionizing videogames" someone will take the lessons presented at all these talks Wright does and actually *finish* a game that heavily utilizes procedural generation or whatever before Spore comes out, and it won't be revolutionary anymore.

Re:Balancing act

[acvh]

nobody wants another "Duke Nukem Forever."

hell, I must have missed the first one. how was it?

Here are a few

[Moraelin]

I wonder where I've heard this here "We'll ship it when it's finished" rhetoric before?

For example, from Epic, Blizzard, and a few others who are now the big names of the industry for it. It turns out that, surprise, more people buy a game which is finished and polished than something shoved out the door to meet an arbitrary deadline. Much as a couple of publishers still hope that if they believe the opposite really, really hard, it will somehow become reality.

Re:Here are a few

[EggyToast]

Exactly. People like games that are on time. What they hate about games that are pushed back is that arbitrary deadline in the first place. If your game is probably NOT going to be ready in a year's time, DON'T say it is!

But yeah, the only thing worse than a moving deadline are patches and bugs. And last 1/3 of a game that's just tacked on and unfinished.

Re:Here are a few

[Blakey Rat]

Raven Software makes pretty good games, and they always seem to come out exactly on time.

I think the problem is that most of the game industry is terrible at project management. They set unrealistic timelines, or far too many features, or both. And then when it's obvious they can't complete the game in time, they wait until the very last minute to say anything about it.

For instance, look at how Valve screwed ATI with ATI's Half-Life 2 giveaway. By the time HL2 actually came out, the Radeon 9600 you bought to get it for free was nearly obsolete! To make matters worse, the only reason Valve announced the delay at all is that their source code leaked. If that hadn't happened, who knows how long it would have taken them to admit their schedule was off.

Re:Here are a few

[Scotland Tom]

I'm not sure where you get "year 7." Spore was only publicly announced at E3 2005. Counting the amount of time Will Wright has spent privately developing the idea before that is ridiculous. I'm sure there are many other developers that have been going through a similar multi-year pre-production process on games that we know nothing about.

So, let's quit exaggerating things and call it at the 2 years and 3 months that it's actually been.

CTRL+F

[rbarreira]

First thing I did after clicking "Read more..." was CTRL+F, "duke". I knew there would be results!

Why not do the Apple thing?

[n2art2]

Not everyone likes it, but it is good for Apple. Just keep it under wraps. Let a few trickle leaks out that don't really tell you anything other then. . . a name (maybe) and that it will be way cool!

This works 2 fold. When it ships it catches all the competition and customers by storm, and if it doesn't ship, at least all the leaks created company hype.

Hypocrisy

[religious freak]

Everyone is always bitching about how many patches and bugs are in games, and now we've got someone who actually wants to build a great game and the SAME people are bitching.

Um... hypocrisy anyone?

Re:Hypocrisy

[jandrese]

No, Slashdotters just want it now, bug free, cheap, and feature rich. What's so wrong with that?

Re:Hypocrisy

[shish]

Everyone is always... Protip: the vast majority of generalisations are horribly flawed.

the SAME people are bitching Can you provide a list of usernames? I would think it far more likely that person A is bitching about one thing, and person B is bitching about another -- just because persons A and B visit the same website does not make them hypocrites for saying different things...

Re:Hypocrisy

[shotgunsaint]

Well, I don't know how long this Anonymous Coward guy's been on here, but his account is so old he doesn't have a user ID number, and he bitches about EVERYTHING!

Franchise?

[The Orange Mage]

That's right. It's in the article. They refer to Spore as a franchise.

So what, Spore 2010, with updated rosters and some tiny new feature? Repeat formula next year?

Re:Franchise?

[0rionx]

As you may know, EA has already confirmed that a DS version of Spore is already in the works, and they've hinted that they have plans to release the game on other consoles down the road, so technically Spore can already be considered a franchise. Furthermore, Will Wright's game have an excellent track record when it comes to longevity and replayability. SimCity came out in 1989 and remains a successful franchise property to this day. While the core concept of the gameplay has always been the same, I would hardly say it's stagnated over the years. With each iteration they've observed what works and what doesn't, redesigned and rewritten the engine, and expanded the scope of the gameplay possibilities while remaining true to the core idea.

Furthermore, I don't think there's much danger of Spore falling to The Sims-style Release-of-the-Month Syndrome. The whole concept behind the system is that there's no need for the developer to continue to add new content resources; the players will do that on their own. With any game that has a development cycle as long as Spore and that breaks so much new ground, to ensure a good return on the substantial upfront investment requires branching out into as many markets as possible. Furthermore, once the core development work has been finished, it only makes financial sense to continue to leverage that property to develop new markets and maintain profitability.

The fact that Will Wright has demonstrated that his games will have broad appeal and continue to sell for years is exactly what has given Maxis the kind of financial leverage necessary to be able to make this kind of undertaking a reality. Most developers can't even dream of pushing the envelope like this. For most companies the risk would be far too high. For the time being let's keep our fingers crossed and hope that Spore does indeed push the boundaries of the gaming experience and evolve (pun unintentional) into a successful franchise property that will continue to develop this fascinating gameplay concept for years to come. Even if it does stagnate, it'll still be better money spent than most of the other games out there that are still rehashing the same tired gameplay over and over.

Will Wright to give Spore Demo Next Week

[dannyastro]

For those of you who just can't wait, Will Wright will be giving a Spore demo at his Stupid Fun Club studio in Berkeley on Friday, August 10th as part of a benefit party for Bill Pullman's new play. The tickets are expensive ($250), but all proceeds go to benefit the Magic Theatre. Besides Will and Bill, Apollo 9 astronaut Rusty Schweickart and Bill Nye the Science Guy are also expected to attend. The invitation says that Will will demo Spore at the party! For more info: http://www.magictheatre.org/season0708/sfcparty.sh tml

You bet!

[ObjetDart]

You bet your ass it's a franchise!

After the success of The Sims, you can be sure EA/Maxis is looking for every new game they release to be the start of another long and extremely lucrative series of expansion packs. I worked at Maxis a few years ago, and The Sims expansion packs were hands down the biggest profit generators across the entire company (and possibly across all of EA). I have no doubt at all they are planning for another endless expansion pack bonanza with Spore.

Things like this always make me worried

[Sycraft-fu]

I mean in general I support the idea of releasing a game when it is actually complete and not at some arbitrary deadline. I am not at all a fan of getting a game that is effectively beta and having to wait for a few patches to even make it playable (like, say Ultima 9). On the other hand, this is often a sign that "when it is done" may be "never". While development is certainly something that has unexpected delays and so on, when there is no ability to provide a timetable, that's worrying. It can be indicative that there's no clear idea of what is going on or a lack of direction or a staff that lacks the ability to do what is asked of them. I mean you'd great rather nervous if you were having a house built and you asked the foreman when it'd be done and they said "When it's finished, I can't give you a timetable." You'd be worried, and rightfully so. While he can't tell you the precise day it'll be done, you should at least be able to get a ballpark figure.

So I really hope it rules, and I hope this just means it'll be given the time it needs, but I worry this is signs that it may never actually happen.

Spore is dead

[MobyDisk]

Most games must be done start to finish within 2 years. If you write a game and it takes 5 years, then the game is usually obsolete by the time it comes out. The longer the development cycle, the more difficult it is to target the hardware that will be available when you ship the game. And as the code base grows in complexity it becomes harder to maintain, test, fix bugs, etc. I think too many people say "Will Wright knows what he is doing!" and conclude everything will work out. But history shows that when a game is ambitious, overhyped, and delayed multiple times -- that the odds are not good.

I really hope Spore works out. But I think they may have become subject to high expectations and scope creep.

Re:Spore is dead

[fullmetal55]

Most games yes, however now we're hitting a wall technologically. There's a point where current graphics, are good enough. look at half-life 2. it's still going strong, look at the sims. these are games that are older than 2 years and are still selling very well. Writing an ambitious game like this will take more than 2 years to work out all the bugs. there is a ton of gameplay in it. And they not only have to write all this gameplay mechanics, but playtest, re-work, fix bugs, make it fun. for most games a 2 year dev cycle is ample time for that. mostly because they're already on tried and true game mechanics. FPS, RTS, RPG, MMORPG... all tried and true principles, each with their own challenges and ability to customize to make your game unique. throw in a game like spore, and you have a game that spans genres, spans gameplay styles, developing that game, will take time. and I actually think that right now is the best time to do it. yes the hardware it was targetting may be the previous years, and you have a better system when it's released, that really doesn't hurt sales any, in fact it allows people who have a slower box run it fine. it expands your audience. take Doom 3 it had really steep requirements, not many people had the box to run it well, and there were many complaints. some people even going as far as to say they should have delayed until the hw was available. You say history shows that when a game is ambitious overhyped and delayed multiple times the odds aren't good, I think delays are actually sometimes good for the game. as long as the people working on it care about producing a good game. They'll take the extra time to make the game great. this has been shown in history too... Everyone throws in Duke forever... I really don't think spore can even be considered in the same class... as for the release date of "when it's done", Doom3 had that, half-life2 had that, tons of games have had that be the release date from the dev team. Marketing drones are the ones who kill games, they're the ones who kill the games that have been delayed multiple times. after all it's the marketing drones who announce the release dates. and set the deadlines. sometimes deadlines simply can't be met. is that the developer's fault? maybe, but most likely the deadlines were too strict and too soon. especially since I know how hard game devs work.

From The Man himself:

[El_Smack]

A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever. - Shigeru Miyamoto

Re:Hmmm

[sdaemon]

Valve/Vivendi delayed on Half-Life 2, citing this same reason as well as the alleged hacking and source-code-stealing incident (did that ever get prosecuted?).

Frankly, I'm glad they waited. When Half-Life 2 arrived...it was *perfect*.

Like a good video game junkie, I lost about 48h of my life in one fell swoop to that game, playing it through 3 times in quick succession. I do not consider those to be wasted hours.

More companies should release products that are "finished".

Re:Despite what they say

[WilliamSChips]

"Generation" has a different meaning in the video game culture.

Re:War & Trade

[DaftShadow]

I'd like to get back into Eve-O again when I find the time. In no other game have I truly learned the power of leadership on such a visceral level. Even working with just 2 other guys requires someone to step up and take their leadership skills to a whole other level. Ten & higher puts you in a whole other league of understanding. 50+ it gets even wilder. Training and processes, reconnaissance, pre-combat calculations and planning, combat orders, Feints and parries, laying traps, avoiding traps, tricking your enemies, delegating responsibility, taking responsibility... it's wild fun.

Anyone who plays eve-o and has stayed in Empire thus far, get your jump clones up to date, hop into a non-implanted one, trick out a cheap rifter or a stabber and go start shooting at people in 0.0. Start teaming up with people, and take recon positions whenever possible. Then try leading small ops. Within a month you'll be having so much fun that the 'spreadsheet life' of Empire will make you feel like a fool for ever enjoying it ;)

- DaftShadow

Re:Most small studios die

[Blakey Rat]

PC gamers are an interesting group. They're willing to spend a lot on their hobby and don't seem to expect a lot of quality in return. I can't explain why they put up with it.

Amen.

A friend recently hassled me into picking up Battlefield: 2142 for my PC, and I've never had a worse gaming experience:

- The user registration was a pain in the butt, since almost every nickname imaginable is already taken and it doesn't give suggestions for unused ones. (It also doesn't accept some for random stupid reasons; I couldn't use "18 Rabbit" because you can't start a nickname with a numeral. Of course it doesn't TELL you you can't use a numeral, you have to get the retards at EA customer service to say it.)

- Trying to get my nickname changed through EA's customer service site is like pulling teeth. I had to make 7 requests, saying the same thing over and over, before an agent that knew what the hell he was doing actually replied with something helpful. It's still not resolved, because it's impossible to pick a new unused nickname without creating a new account using their retarded account system.

- It won't run on my widescreen monitor, instead just setting it to 1024x768 like a moron. When you put in a customer service ticket for this, they reply that the game was not tested on widescreen monitors. WTF?! The game came out in 2006, when widescreen monitors have never been more popular.

- You have to give it admin access and "allow" it on the firewall, because it also wasn't tested on Windows Vista, thus opening up security holes in your system as you're running an internet capable app with no protections whatsoever against malware.

- Even when you do that, PunkBuster will still randomly kick you from games, because apparently PunkBuster *also* wasn't tested in Vista. (How long has Vista been in public betas? All of 2006, for sure. Why the hell hasn't anybody tested in it?!)

- The buddy list in the game works maybe half the time. Maybe. It's hard to say because occasionally it'll work with one person I know, and show the rest as offline (even when they aren't, and even when I'm playing on the same server they're on.) Or, even worse, it won't show them as online OR offline, they just don't show up at all.

- Trying to outfit your character is extremely annoying, as the outfit tab will randomly change to the "pick a team" tab... even when you're in the middle of a drag-and-drop operation!

- Oh, and to cap things off, there's no auto-updater: You have to actually go to the website to find updates, and manually install them. Tribes had an auto-updater over a decade ago, what the hell is so hard about it?

- (Not specifically about this game, but all PC games): Why do I need a serial number AND the CD in the drive to play? Why can't I just have the disk in the drive like on Xbox, or Playstation 3, or Wii, or any other gaming system? Hell, games for consoles are more expensive, if anything they should have more copy protection.

It really, really made me miss Xbox Live. I really hope Microsoft's Games for Windows initiative catches on to save us from this stupidity.