Slashdot Mirror


New Theory Explains Periodic Mass Extinctions

i_like_spam writes "The theory that the dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid impact, the K-T extinction, is well known and supported by fossil and geological evidence. Asteroid impact theory does not apply to the other fluctuations in biodiversity, however, which follow an approximate 62 million-year cycle. As reported in Science, a new theory seems to explain periodic mass extinctions. The new theory found that oscillations in the Sun relative to the plane of the Milky Way correlate with changes in biodiversity on Earth. The researchers suggest that an increase in the exposure of Earth to extragalactic cosmic rays causes mass extinctions. The original paper describing the findings is available online."

61 of 383 comments (clear)

  1. Huh. Better get to work! by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Only 7 million years from now, for all you long range planners. Better stock up on beans, bottled water and relocate your house 1 kilometer underground.

    It's a perfectly reasonable hypothesis, though it'll be a while before we can test it. It's always a little weird though, to think of extra-solar events as relevant on a "local" scale. I mean, in the same way that Earth is endangered by rogue meteorites and asteroids, the whole solar system is vulnerable to a rogue star or brown dwarf. Anyone ever read Jack McDevitt? He's obsessed with that sort of disaster (pun intended).

    Hard to get your mind around it...The odds are so long...

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    1. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 5, Funny
      So we have 7 million years to figure out space flight and/or a way to record the sum of our knowledge for future intelligences.

      We're hosed.

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    2. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not every species that lasts 7 million years. It's just as likely we won't be here at all, and this event will only bother the emerging rat civilization.

      I'd be surprised if we haven't shot our bolt one way or the other in the next ten thousand years, and that's a conservative estimate.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    3. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Dude... A house 1 kilometer underground, and you want to stock up BEANS??

    4. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Funny

      ... the emerging rat civilization

      Let me guess: the rats are the warriors, the hamsters are the scientists,
      and a bright orange guinea pig named Dr Zeus will be in charge.

    5. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by slashname3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Only if you leave it to the government to figure out space flight.

    6. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Gospodin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because what matters is the galactic plane, not the solar ecliptic. It's going to take a while (read: about as long as it'll take the Solar System) for the probe to get a decent reading.

      --
      ...following the principles of Heisenburger's Uncertain Cat...
    7. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Loke+the+Dog · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Which is kind of cool to think about... Imagine if rats have built a civilization about on par with our current civilization, but they are just a few years from this catastrophic event when they discover this pattern. And they are desperately searching the human ruins in hopes of finding some kind of technology to deal with this. It would make a good movie, I think.

    8. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Discordantus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The human race's problem right now is that we have all our eggs in one basket; namely, Earth. If something terrible were to happen to our planet, the entire human race could be wiped out, forever.

      It seems obvious to me that we need to spread out. In an age where a nation (or even a well-funded doomsday cult) could conceivably make the planet humanly uninhabitable through the use of nuclear weapons, the settlement of other worlds seems paramount. And it's only going to get easier to destroy the planet; as technology progresses and procedures get simplified, costs invariably come down for building any piece of technology.

      I seriously believe that the fate of the human race will depend on one question: can we get colonies on other planets before we destroy our own?

    9. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think we'll hit the crossroads in the next 500 years. Civilization will either keep advancing, or collapse. In the event of a collapse, it will be interesting to see what our distant proginy do to climb back up the hill. The Eden trilogy by Harry Harrison is interesting along those lines because it posits an advanced dinosaur based civilization based more on biotechnology than mechanical technology.

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    10. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by neophytepwner · · Score: 2, Informative

      Out of Thin Air by Peter Ward, READ IT.

    11. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Intron · · Score: 3, Funny

      A. Create separate colony around some other star
      B. Wait about 3 generations
      C. Get invaded by descendents of original colonists looking for better place to live.

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    12. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Jehosephat2k · · Score: 2, Funny
      The human race's problem right now is that we have all our eggs in one basket; namely, Earth. If something terrible were to happen to our planet, the entire human race could be wiped out, forever.

      "That's an awefully nice planet you have there, it would be a shame if something were to, say, 'happen' to it?"

    13. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by bl8n8r · · Score: 3, Funny

      If we leave it to the government, we won't have to wait 7 million years for mass extinction.

      --
      boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
    14. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by aztektum · · Score: 2, Funny

      this event will only bother the emerging cat civilization. Fixed that for you.
      --
      :: aztek ::
      No sig for you!!
    15. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by fyngyrz · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Imagine if rats have built a civilization about on par with our current civilization

      "Writing of the Rat" by James Blish, first published in Galaxy magazine, July 1956. Republished in "A Dusk of Idols" by Severn House, May 1996, 0-7278-4967-0.

      First we arose, then the rats, then us again. Well worth reading even today, as is so for many of his works.

      --
      I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    16. Re:Huh. Better get to work! by Walkingshark · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Never been to a landfill, huh?

      --
      The world you experience is only a close approximation of reality.
  2. It burns... by unchiujar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Will my tinfoil hat protect me ?

    --
    Shakespeare poems - infinite monkeys with infinite time.Computer tech support - a few trained ones working from 9 to 5.
  3. Err.. by HitekHobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How about 'new hypothesis may explain...'

  4. Re:Does anyone make.... by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 4, Funny

    Im sure the Chinese do.

    --
  5. Nah this is not correct either. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Funny
    What? Sun? Galactic Plane? Intergalactic Rays? You guys are watching way too many reruns of Star Trek.

    Everyone knows the extinctions were perfectly explained using the Theory of Intelligent Smiting.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Nah this is not correct either. by Himring · · Score: 4, Funny

      lol! I love making fun of god. It's ok too, cuz god's gotta sense of hu

      [NO CARRIER]

      --
      "All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
    2. Re:Nah this is not correct either. by AJWM · · Score: 5, Informative

      You forgot to mention Christopher Columbus's theory that the earth is round... [...]when the rest of the so called "Intelligent" people of the world said it was flat.

      LOL! You still believe that nursery school myth?

      NO intelligent person in Columbus's time thought the world was flat -- as it clearly is not to anyone sufficiently observant. Columbus's problem is that he wanted to go to Asia via a western route, and everyone intelligent knew that with a circumference of about 25,000 miles, Eratosthenes having calculated it about 240 BC (as others had since). Hence they "knew" that with the sailing technology of the day, there was no way Columbus could make the voyage.

      They were right, too. Had the Americas not been in his way, his expedition would have perished before he got as far as the longitude of Hawaii.

      There is some evidence that Columbus may in fact have known that there was some land mass to the west considerably before Asia (the Vikings certainly did, and it is quite possible that fishermen who went as far as the Grand Banks were also aware). Whether from that he decided that Eratosthenes was wrong and the circumference was smaller (possibly influenced by Ptolemy's maps (from Geographica) which underestimated the circumference at about 18,000 miles), or whether he was just arguing that way to get backing for an expedition (with the secret purpose of discovering and exploiting just whatever land mass was there), we have no way of knowing.

      That mistake alone discredits the rest of your post as to make it not even worth reading.

      --
      -- Alastair
    3. Re:Nah this is not correct either. by AJWM · · Score: 4, Informative

      BTW, even though Columbus "discovered" the Americas, it was Juan Sebastian Elcano who proved the world was round by sailing westward (modulo a few detours) until he returned to Spain. Yeah, everyone says it was Magellan, but Magellan died on the expedition in the Philippines, it was Elcano who assumed command at that point and finished the circumnavigation (along with a dozen or so shipmates).

      --
      -- Alastair
  6. Figure 4 in the paper by Pausanias · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Check out Figure 4 at the end of the linked paper. It shows that the periods of highest diversity coincide with the periods where the cosmic ray flux is lowest. Really amazing correlation if you ask me.

  7. Re:Well, that would explain by eln · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article suggests that this does not explain the K-T event, which is already adequately explained by the asteroid impact theory. This theory explains the cyclical decreases in biodiversity that seem to happen about once every 62 million years. The K-T event is not part of this cyclical pattern.

  8. Not only is this not a new theory by clusterlizard · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    i took a bitchslapping for natalie portman
  9. Or Maybe... by MxTxL · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The researchers suggest that an increase in the exposure of Earth to extragalactic cosmic rays causes mass extinctions.

    Or maybe, the increased radiation merely causes some periods of increased mutations... extinctions follow as species are outcompeted for resources.

  10. Not Global Warming? by zero@mac.com · · Score: 2, Informative

    But NOVA Science Now told me it was global warming :(

  11. (5am posting, sorry) by ggvaidya · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... extragalactic cosmic rays causes mass extinctions ...

    Can we please oh please oh please call them death rays?
  12. Odds are by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2, Informative

    I believe it was 28-30 million light years, and then its axis for gamma rays would have to be pointing directly at where the earth would cross the relatively brief beam. IOW, you're more likely to get directly hit by a killer asteroid.

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  13. Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by benhocking · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's a perfectly reasonable hypothesis if one accepts the premise that mass extinctions have an approximately 62 million year period. From Wikipedia, the last 6 extinction events happened 65 million years ago, 200 million years ago, 251 million years ago, 360 million years ago, 444 million years ago, and 488 million years ago. The time between extinctions being 135 million years, 51 million years, 109 million years, 84 million years, and 44 million years. I'm having a hard time wrapping even an approximate 62 million year period into those.

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
    1. Re:Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sounds like someone needs to edit Wikipedia to make this hypothesis fit a little better...

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    2. Re:Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by fimbulvetr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It looks like it just got sensationalized from "Varied levels of cosmic radiation" to "Mass extinctions". What the paper does a better job describing is how such cycles would account for increased diversity in lifeforms. Consider, for instance, the cambrian explosion. Based on what we know about evolution, such an explosion is unprecedented and highly unlikely, despite the evidence. Perhaps increased Cosmic Rays caused a massive amount of mutations that forever changed the genetic data of organisms by making them more likely to survive.

    3. Re:Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by ajs · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a perfectly reasonable hypothesis if one accepts the premise that mass extinctions have an approximately 62 million year period. From Wikipedia, the last 6 extinction events happened 65 million years ago, 200 million years ago, 251 million years ago, 360 million years ago, 444 million years ago, and 488 million years ago. You're looking at the largest of the extinction events. This theory is attempting to explain a particular set of events which result in only an approx. 10% drop in biodiversity, and which are about 60ish million years apart.

      The KT event, for example, had a much larger impact on biodiversity but happened off-cycle, and is pretty clearly the result of a specific meteor strike that we already know about.

      Other events may have been volcanic or meteoric or the result of something we didn't know about.

      All extinction events being triggered by only one type of external condition was never very likely.
    4. Re:Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by retiredtwice · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are correct in that in order to get 62my ago, you have to fudge quite a bit. Also, there is increasing evidence that the Permian Extinction (250my ago) was caused by simultaneous (almost) volcanic events from "megavolcanos". Try reading Peter Wards "Rivers in Time" for a paleontologist's investigation into the mass extinctions. http://www.amazon.com/Rivers-Time-Peter-D-Ward/dp/ 0231118635 Sounds like someone needed to "publish or perish" for this article.

      --
      I get it now. If you disagree with the majority on /., you are a troll.
    5. Re:Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by ajs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      not only that but mass extinctions happened a lot earlier than that and with a far less predictable pattern. which leaves us to wonder why this cycle is this recent? why isn't there a cycle like this stretching back over a billion years? I haven't read the original paper, and the article is thin on details, so I'm not sure exactly how many events they considered... HOWEVER, I do not think you're correct about the conditions being static across spans of billions of years.

      Our sun (Sol) is a member of a cluster of stars that were birthed by a nebula of gas and dust around the same time. That cluster (like all stellar nurseries within a galactic disk) tended to break apart as time went on, due to the difference in orbital speeds around the center of the galaxy (regions of the nebula closer to the center move faster, and regions further out, slower). This nebula and the proximity of other stellar systems almost certainly provided some shielding from dangerous intergalactic muons, and the whole nebula would have started with a similar orbital eccentricity as Sol. So, over millions of years, as the nebula was pulled apart by galactic tides, our protection has thinned. The upsetting part (if you get upset about events that could affect us in tens of millions of years) is that it probably has more thinning to go, and our exposure to these extra-galactic particles is probably increasing each cycle.
    6. Re:Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by Burz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As ajs pointed out, the hypothesis is concerned with much smaller extinction events than the large ones you listed.

      However there is at least one supportable theory for several of the larger ones: Death by hydrogen sulfide eruptions. Briefly, global warming leads to ocean anoxia and the spread H2S-spewing bacteria; death of aerobic ocean life accelerates the bacteria growth in a positive feedback until H2S concentrations also begin to spew from the oceans and kill life on land.

    7. Re:Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 2, Informative

      not only that but mass extinctions happened a lot earlier than that and with a far less predictable pattern. which leaves us to wonder why this cycle is this recent? why isn't there a cycle like this stretching back over a billion years?

      As far as the fossil record is concerned, the only things that existed beyond 550 million years ago are basically algae, bacteria, simple worms, etc. It wasn't until after that time that biodiversity really took off. It's entirely possible that this pattern goes back through the entire earth's history. However, there didn't exist complex enough life for us to gauge it's impact via the fossil record.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    8. Re:Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by Tatarize · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And why exactly do we have this very exactly dated impact in the Yucatan with little bits of it everywhere on Earth, tracing back to the right time period? What are we suppose to do with this massive amount of evidence right at the K-T switch if we are to suppose that it was just solar winds wiping out most life?

      It seems like a lot of evidence to have for something with nothing to do with it.

      --

      It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.
    9. Re:Perfectly reasonable hypothesis? by Xtravar · · Score: 2

      Our sun (Sol) is a member of a cluster of stars that were birthed by a nebula of gas and dust around the same time. That cluster (like all stellar nurseries within a galactic disk) tended to break apart as time went on, due to the difference in orbital speeds around the center of the galaxy. My god, this reads like some twisted fairy tale or the Bible.

      You see, Sol was different from all the other stars in his nursery. He was more advanced than his nebulous peers, and thus started orbiting sooner than all the others. One day, he came upon a rabbit in his journeys and he said, "Oh wise rabbit, why am I all alone in the galaxy?" The rabbit replied, "I will tell you, but only if you can provide me a carrot for I have been traveling very long and am very hungry." And Sol gave the rabbit a carrot. The hare said unto him, "Thank you, kind star. The answer you seek is right in front of you. You are not alone in the galaxy. While you have been too busy looking to the other stars, a small planet has formed around you, and it now contains life!" And Sol rejoiced. Amen.

      Sorry.
      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
  14. -1, Totally Irrelevant by athloi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Humanity's chances of avoiding self-destruction or regression to a simian mean within the next 7 million years approximate zero, or worse (Cantor sets).

  15. Well... by Chouonsoku · · Score: 5, Funny

    I for one welcome our new cosmic ray-based overlords! (I just felt like I hadn't seen that lately. :'( Mod me as you wish. But, be gentle.)

  16. to quote inidana jones: by conspirator57 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    you say: "A truth is a fact,"

    Indiana Jones says, "Archaeology is the search for fact... not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall."

    --
    "If still these truths be held to be
    Self evident."
    -Edna St. Vincent Millay
  17. You joke, but look at table 2 by benhocking · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Almost all of the diversity minima precede the cosmic ray maxima, and all of the declines (from diversity maxima) precede the cosmic ray maxima. I think you're on to something there... ;)

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  18. Why not? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Radiation doesn't kill things off that well. Look at Chernobyl or the Savannah river plant...Both shut down, both radioactive, both experiencing a resurgence of pretty healthy wildlife across the board.

    Lot of the things we assumed about radiation back in the day (e.g. mutants and Godzilla) have turned out to not really happen so much. DNA isn't as fragile as we assumed, and while the extra rads may kill you quicker (only live to 60 instead of 80), it's not quick enough to keep you from reproducing.

    We're not talking some kind of galactic nuke here...It's just a significant upswing in radiation. Hell, the fact that we've had these historically is maybe why the ecosystem tolerates increases in radiation so well.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    1. Re:Why not? by smellsofbikes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have some friends with PhD's in nuclear science who claim that radiation is beneficial. They go further: life started when there was a lot more radiation, so most of our genetic machinery is designed to work with far higher radiation than what we're seeing, which is to say we can stand a lot more radiation with little harm. They go further and claim that because there's less radiation now, we have more problems -- higher background radiation might act to suppress immune system malfunctions (sitting in radioactive hot springs does seem to reduce the symptoms of arthritis.) Life survival vs. number of cells should be inversely proportional as radiation level rises: if a bacterium has its DNA badly injured by a radiative event, it's less likely to survive than an animal with a million cells. (I've read in other places that every strand of DNA in every cell experiences tens of damage events requiring repair every day.) My friends the PhD's go so far as to claim that the reason that the seven counties in the US with the longest average lifespan are all on the Continental Divide in Colorado where the radiation levels are highest because of the elevation.
      (Sorry I can't find a better link for the Eight Americas dataset: you have to download an Excel spreadsheet to get the raw data.)

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    2. Re:Why not? by Thomas+Miconi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      life started when there was a lot more radiation,

      Life also started in water, that shields out the most harmful radiations. Life on land has to wait until the ozone layer was strong enough.

      if a bacterium has its DNA badly injured by a radiative event, it's less likely to survive than an animal with a million cells.

      The single bacterium is less likely to survive. The population of billions of bacteria isn't. Also bacteria are independent (to a point): they don't need to be nice to each other to survive, at least not to the degree multicell bodies do. If just one of your cell goes awry, your whole body goes to the dogs. We call that "cancer". Bacteria don't have it.

      My friends the PhD's go so far as to claim that the reason that the seven counties in the US with the longest average lifespan are all on the Continental Divide in Colorado where the radiation levels are highest because of the elevation. (Sorry I can't find a better link for the Eight Americas dataset: you have to download an Excel spreadsheet to get the raw data.)

      This link gives county-by-county life expectancy (near the end of the article). That's interesting data, but low pollution + semi-rural lifestyle + OK incomes + low crime = lots of alternative explanations.

  19. Not really by Cairnarvon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The extinction events are too abrupt to be explained this way, and the "approximate 62 million-year cycle" only looks like a cycle if you squint really hard.

  20. Related to something else by gr8_phk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I recall reading one guys work on galactic dynamics where he suggested that our solar system "orbits" or oscillates (planar) through one of the arms (dense areas - we're not a pinwheel) of the galaxy. He suggested that as we pass through the middle, we're more likely to be hit by other objects. This was his explanation for the extinctions. Now we see that someone has concluded such an oscillation is really happening, however they suggest the a different phase relationship. The guy I was talking about would have the extinctions happen at the time of lowest cosmic ray flux. I guess he got the oscillation part right and the cause of the extinctions wrong. Too bad I can remember where I read that...

  21. Some hasty objections by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 4, Informative

    OK, I've only read the summary (I have a lecture to give half an hour from now to prepare for) but I can see some objections:

    * My boss (David Penny, Massey University) argues that the mammals and birds were already outcompeting the dinosaurs at the end of the cretaceous, so the asteroid was at best a coup-de-grace for them.
    * The "periodic extinctions" idea has been around for decades, including the possible link to oscillations through the galactic plane.
    * Mass extinctions are sudden. The increase in extragalactic cosmic rays exposure would be slow, over millions of years.
    * The extragalactic cosmic ray exposure changes should be highly regular. The extinctions are irregular.

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
  22. Re:You'd have to pass through the heliopause first by CommunistHamster · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Pioneer and Voyager probes weren't designed to specifically leave the solar system though, their primary mission was to probe the planets. If we made a probe dedicated to getting really far out of the solar system really fast (with no stops in between Earth and deep space, or indeed at all) then it would get there much faster.

  23. Biodiversity by benhocking · · Score: 4, Informative

    Perhaps increased Cosmic Rays caused a massive amount of mutations that forever changed the genetic data of organisms by making them more likely to survive.
    Along those lines, I found this interesting figure in Wikipedia that also mentions the 62 million year cycle.
    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  24. NOT About Mass Extinctions! by markk · · Score: 5, Informative

    The title of the summary is totally wrong. This has nothing to do with mass extinctions. Its looking at fossil Species and Family counts vs time correlated with Solar motion. The 62 MY cycle barely touches the Mass extinction events.
    Better summary title - "Life's Diversity changes with Solar Galactic Orbit". Or something like that.

  25. Re:Well, that would explain by benerivo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yeh i'd agree with Bombula. Henrik Svensmark is the guy who is at the forefront of cosmic ray effects on our climate - but the whole theory gets flamed by the mainstream greenhouse gas theory as it threatens it's 100% claim on the explanation of climate change. The correlation between cosmic rays and past climate is almost perfect (see fig. 5)... http://www.sciencebits.com/ice-ages

  26. Re:Well, that would explain by inviolet · · Score: 4, Informative

    Fewer cosmic rays mean fewer clouds will be formed, and so there will be a warmer Earth. If the sun and the solar wind are not so active, then more cosmic rays can come in. That means more clouds [reflecting away more sunlight] and a cooler Earth.

    That's odd. The post-9/11 research into the effects of jet contrails suggested that they have two faint effects: mild warming and mild day/night temperature moderation. But the above quote seems to contradict that.

    I am now even more suspicious of the conclusions of the contrail research, coming (as it did) in the middle of the global warming craze. Right now you can't even publish the simple observation that plants will grow usefully faster on a warmer Earth; no, you have to spin it as "OMG poison ivy will get worse!".

    I'm ready to go nuclear/solar/wind, and drive an electric car, because I've always hated the power that petronomics gives to the backwards nations... but come on guys, can we at least give both sides a fair hearing?

    --
    FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
  27. What about table 2 in their paper? by benhocking · · Score: 2, Informative

    Cycle:Min Diversity:Max Diversity
    1:59 My:74 My
    2:115 My:121 My
    3:177 My:184 My
    4:250 My:273 My
    5:298 My:308 My
    6:372 My:400 My
    7:441 My:454 My
    8:497 My:501 My

    My calculations:
    MinAgeDiff:MaxAgeDiff
    56 My:47 My
    62 My:63 My
    73 My:89 My
    48 My:35 Mr
    74 My:92 My
    69 My:54 My
    56 My:47 My
    Personally, I'm not impressed by the 62 My period conclusion based on the data they provide. Just how approximate are we talking here?

    --
    Ben Hocking
    Need a professional organizer?
  28. Eulogies by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Funny

    I, for one, would like to commemorate a few periodic mass extinctions:

    Dear AU, what has become of you? You may not be extinct, but I can never find you.
    Humble Promethium. Your existence was "predicted" long after your demise.
    Oh 271 Seaborgium, how did you decay? Let me count the ways. Alpha decay. Spontaneous fission.
    272 Roentgenium, we hardly knew you. Half extinct at the tender age of 1.5ms. You're the one we'll truly miss.

  29. Needs money more than time. by alienmole · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Given the benefit of current technology, including technology developed for the US space program, catching up with the US government is more a question of funding than time. With insufficient funding, it could take much longer than 50 years to catch up; if somehow enough money became available, it could be done much more quickly.

    In any case, commercial applications for interstellar probes seem unlikely, so you might never get that wakeup call.

  30. New paper, old theory by syousef · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm sure I've seen this before, possibly found out about it on /.

    Here's an article from March 2005
    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/ 03/10/MNGFIBN6PO1.DTL

    It's only one of many theories. The wikipedia page that points to the article above discusses them all
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_extinction

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  31. Re:Pioneer and voyager needed planets for assist. by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Informative

    Technically, it is correct that a probe launched to exit the solar system as fast as possible could do it faster, using certain definations of 'the solar system'. Not because it would go faster, it would go slower, but because to exit the solar system it is much faster to go north or south instead of following the plane of the planets. (But this doesn't help any if you want to exit the heliosphere, which is distorted like a comet tail. The fastest way out is in the direction of the movement of the sun.)

    However, this would be utterly pointless, because we don't want to get outside the solar system to measure...we'd have nothing to compare it to. We'd want to send the probe close to the top (or bottom?) of the galaxy. Getting to the 'top' of the galaxy would require, what, a thousand years of travel at light speed? So we need all the speed we can.

    I forget how the solar system plane lines up with the galactic plane, but we could trivially use Jupiter for a speed boost and, at the same time, sling the probe in whatever direction we need. My first assumption is that this would be straight in the direction the sun is going, but actually that's not correct...the sun is mainly orbiting in a circle with tiny up and down movements, thus it's taking 61 million years complete a cycle, whereas it's only three thousand lightyears. And, no, we're not just going really really slow.

    Going straight out, with current technology, could easily let us beat the solar system out of the galaxy there and see what's going on. Even with 10% of light speed we could get there in a few thousand years. (Well, pretending we actually had probes that would operate for that long.)

    People tend not to realize how flat the galaxy is, at least out here. Remember the Monty Python song. 'It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand lightyears thick, but out by us it's just three thousand lightyears wide.' And we're apparently nearing the edge once again.

    --
    If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?