Smartphone Shootout

An anonymous reader writes "InformationWeek's David DeJean makes the mistake of trying to compare the experience of Web surfing on a BlackBerry, Palm, and HTC smartphones to the experience on the iPhone. According to the DeJean, the three don't come close, but it's very interesting to read about the pros and cons of what can (and can't) be done with current mobile hardware and software."

Comments

how connected do we have to be?

[yagu]

I've posted around this topic before. While it might be an interesting technical and "can we do it" discussion, ultimately (IMO) the "smaller is better" and "everything in one device" approach seems doomed to fail.

I liken it to the early days of cell phones (albeit not tiny) where it was new, it was exciting, and vendors were rushing to flood the market, while consumers were rushing to get their new status gadget.

However, instead of making better and better phones, the trend is to cram more crap into the phones, to cram more threads into the cell compression streams (with increasingly horrible sound quality over the years), all to get the most out of the market before users realize it's just not that great an experience.

Even the revolutionary approach of the iPhone is rife with limitations. The battery life makes it almost prohibitive to venture off the "use it as a phone", i.e., if you want to use it for music and video, you'd better forget about a full day's worth of phone service -- the battery isn't going to let you do that.

Also, while the buttonless interface is cool, the screen is nice, it's still tiny compared to necessary space to really surf in a browser. Even with its cool expansion feature, it sucks.

Do people really need to be that connected? Probably not.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[danbert8]

I agree. What is the point of it being a phone? I'd rather have a tablet PC or an ultra small laptop if I was going to be doing web browsing. And not only have a real browser, but a real operating system. Not to mention no problems with memory limitations, a much larger screen, an actual keyboard, a mouse, and NO CONTRACT!
 
What I want from a phone is to make phone calls, and every once in awhile, check the time. But apparently, they don't make those phones in the US anymore. I can't even get a ringer that sounds like a phone on my cell.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do people really need to be that connected? Probably not.

I think the question you meant to ask is, "do I really need to be that connected." You probably answered correctly.

But what about the question you actually asked? Do people need to be that connected? Well I really need to be that connected and I chose my phone with that in mind. If a lot of other people agree with me, they'll make a similar choice. If no one felt they needed this, these platforms would die out, wouldn't they? But that's not really happening, is it?

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

Even the revolutionary approach of the iPhone is rife with limitations. The battery life makes it almost prohibitive to venture off the "use it as a phone", i.e., if you want to use it for music and video, you'd better forget about a full day's worth of phone service -- the battery isn't going to let you do that.

If you're using the features of your iPhone enough to run the battery down in less than 24 hours, you've got way too much time on your hands. Either that, or you're using the iPhone as your primary business phone. In which case it might be a good idea to get an extra cradle for the ole' desk.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Zelos]

There are hundreds of phones that basically just make phone calls. And there are plenty of phones that can do most of the fancy stuff, but are still small, simple and easy to use (like my Nokia 6300). If I want a new ringtone I just bluetooth the mp3/4 across. I can't believe that *all* those phones aren't available in the US.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[sholden]

http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-1100-Prepaid-Phone-Tra cfone/dp/B000BF4406
http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-1600-Phone-Unlocked/dp /B000IEBSXG

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[thedbp]

I'm willing to bet you've never used an iPhone day to day for any signifcant amount of time.

I've had mine for a few weeks now. I use it for movies, music, my primary camera, and it is also my primary Internet connection because I have moral objections to giving comcast money. It is, of course my only phone as well.

I've never even come close to draining the battery in a single day, even using it to browse for hours while listening to music, or streaming h264 video over wifi, using it as a phone, etc.

Your claims are based entrely on uninformed opinion, and NOT any sort of experience or fact.

Also, the browsing experience is perfectly fine. The ability to easily and autmatically zoom to content negates the claim of screen real estate. Everything can be as large or as small as you like.

In short, you are a well spoken troll, but a troll nonetheless.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[nine-times]

I have to disagree with you. The problem with the "all-in-one" model has traditionally been that you get a device that's a not-even-jack of all trades, master of nothing. There's a tremendous effort to cram everything possible into one device without any good design on how to have these features coexist. The result, in my assessment, has always been a device that isn't truly worth carrying around.

I've tried using devices from Palm, Blackberry, and Microsoft, and in each case I feel that same annoyance-- it does a lot of things, but does each of them too poorly. And they're big and clunky. Now, I have an iPhone, and it doesn't do everything, but what it does it does pretty well. Many have complained the that the touch screen interface would make it hard to type, but for the most part those complaints weren't made from experience. The touch screen, for the most part, has successfully navigated the interface problem of having all-in-one devices. Instead of trying to come up with one set of buttons that serves all the different functions, you make the buttons change depending on what you're doing.

You complain about the battery, but as an iPhone owner, I'll tell you that I regularly go a full day or two without charging it. That's not the best battery lifetime I've ever gotten, but it's acceptable. Admittedly, I mostly use the phone, PIM, and iPod functions. I don't really use it to watch video very often, and I only use the internet capabilities for the built-in e-mail client. Every once in a while, when I'm caught in a bind and need access to some particular bit of information, I'll use the web browser, and that's it.

As far as mobile web browsing goes, no, you don't really need 24/7 connectivity, and if you need to do very much, it's better to use a desktop client. However, now that I have a web browser in my pocket, I can tell you that I do find it more useful than I would have thought. I've been in situations where I couldn't find the location of something or I needed to find someone's phone number, and I was able to fetch that information on my iPhone web browser pretty easily. I would have otherwise been pretty lost, and had to wait until I found an internet connection to find the thing I was looking for, so the whole thing was really helpful.

And though I wouldn't advise using the iPhone on EDGE for heavy everyday surfing, it really will work in a pinch. You'll be able to load a real website, the website will render properly most of the time, and it isn't entirely frustrating to browse around a little. Using the web browser in short bursts won't drain your battery too terribly quickly. EDGE is slow and uses more battery than WiFi, but like I said, it'll do if you really need a web page or two right then.

So if all you're saying is that the iPhone isn't a good replacement for your laptop or desktop computer, I'll go along with that. But if you're saying it isn't useful to have your e-mail client, MP3 player, web browser, calendar, address book, Google maps, digital camera, and cell phone be all in one slim, easy to use device, then I think you're crazy. If you think the iPhone doesn't execute this decently well for most people's uses, then I think you're either biased or ignorant.

I guess you could also argue that we should all slow down, stop using our fancy gadgets and doodads, and just not be "connected" most of the time. Do most of us absolutely "need" a cellphone? I guess not. Human civilization went for a long time without any internet or telephones at all. But all things considered, I'd rather have a cell phone than a landline, and I'd rather have mobile e-mail than not. Ideally, in my mind, I wouldn't have to have a "phone" at all, but I could have a wireless IM/VOIP/e-mail device. However, you need ubiquitous wireless internet access in order to do that, and nobody is really providing that yet except cell phone companies. Cell phone companies won't sell a IM/VOIP/e-mail device unless it's also a phone.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[abes]

How useful such a device is to you definately depends on your lifestyle, where you live, and personal preferences. With that said, while I do not expect to do the same type of work on my iphone as my laptop, they both occupy two different needs of mine. Living in NYC requires me to look random things up when I'm walking around. The iPhone is perfect for this. Or random conversations where some rnd factoid was needed, it sre beats pulling out a laptop.

So, yeah not as good as a full-fledged computer for some things, but it's not supposed to be a replacement. That's one of the reasons I never understood all the complaints about the speed of edge. Sure, faster is better, but realistically the amount of web browsing you are going to do is more limited by the small size of it than anything. If you are doing a massive amount of web browsing, then do yourself a favor and get a real computer. If, on the other hand, you are waiting for someone who is late (everyone is around here), if's f'ing great.

Also, in my personal experience, the battery life is great. Which in part due to the lower speed edge chip.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[nine-times]

The iPhone *is* a real tablet computer running a real operating system. It is crippled a bit, yes, but some of us would like to have a couple key features without having to haul a laptop around.

Oh, yeah, and if you haul around that laptop and want mobile internet access, you're going to have to go through those cell phone companies and sign a contract.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

I just want to make certain I understand you correctly: you have moral objections to giving Comcast money, but you do not have moral objections to giving AT&T money? What is it that makes Comcast morally objectionable but does not also apply to AT&T?

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[HardCase]

I've got a Cingular 8525. I really want to like it, especially since it wasn't exactly cheap (although the iPhone makes it seem that way). But I just don't. It does a lot of things, but none of them well. It's a passable, but inconvenient phone. It's a passable but inconvenient palmtop computer. It's a passable, but inconvenient internet appliance.

In the end, the 8525 sits in my desk drawer and I use my old Razr instead. It's a crappy Internet phone, has no chance at doing the palmtop thing, but it's an excellent telephone. And I can put it in my pocket without looking like I've got a really uncomfortable tumor.

Part of me would still like an iPhone, though. Thank god it's the part of me that doesn't control my wallet.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[thedbp]

the way I've been treated by them as a customer in the past, duh.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[SpectreBlofeld]

I spent the last two weeks on vacation (travelling by air and rail) with my Blackberry 8830 as my only Internet connection. I was backpacking. No room for a laptop. Wouldn't have had a reliable place to connect, anyway, even if I had brought it. I gotta say, I was very impressed by what I was able to do with the BB's browser. It sort of felt like a blast from the past - how web browsing was in 1997. :) I was even able to download a telnet client over the air and connect to some BBSes (playing Legend of the Red Dragon while travelling by train). Cool stuff. Was able to follow Slashdot the entire time :) Your question should read, "how connected do we want to be?" I, for one, greatly appreciate having Wikipedia in my pocket.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[fermion]

This can be asked for all communication. Is the horse really necessary? Why can't notes wait to be walked to the next village. Is the telegraph really necessary? Does anyone really need real time stock quotes. Is a dedicated phone line between the home and office really necessary? Is there any news that can't wait for the morning, or a telegraph delivery, or a taxi ride. Is the cell phone necessary. Can't people make plans before they separate?

The only reason any of this technology is necessary is that we have gotten used to it. And it does cause problems. For one thing, no one has time to think, just look at how volatile the stock market has become. The cell phone has killed real social interaction, just like the telephone killed the family evening time. I am not saying any of this is bad, but that there have always been negative effects along with benifits.

The common thread to all this is efficiency and cost savings. For instance, with full web access on the go I no longer need to spend $50 on a Key map. It sucks for the mapmaker, but is good for me. I no longer need to spend $1 to get a telephone number when I can just look it up on the web. And with full data acess, I don't need to waste precious minutes on utility calls when I could be using those minutes to talk to my friends.

If all that matters in a phone is size and battery life and voice quality,then yes the phones are becoming less useful. But as the initial telephones showed, for which people paid a huge amount of money, the key thing for a communication device is overall reliability and the mode of communication, not sound quality. The telephone is better than the telegraph because one does not need an expensive telegraph operator and runners. The iPhone is better than most other phones because not only does it allow a full range of communication options, it requires no expensive back ends(IM is problematic as there is no standard protocol).

It this a good thing? I don't know. But I think one thing humans want, and are willing to give up many things for, is rapid efficient communication, even if we arguable never actually communicate.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[*weasel]

ultimately (IMO) the "smaller is better" and "everything in one device" approach seems doomed to fail. ...Do people really need to be that connected? Probably not.

Do you need to be that connected so you can browse the web? Maybe not. But sending and receiving communications in whatever format you want: be it email, voice, txt, pics, chat and/or videochat? That's the purpose of cell phones, taken to its logical conclusion in the digital age.

And if you're going to give people workable email and videochat, why not allow them to browse? People don't have to use it, but the capability has to exist in hardware so it's basically free to include.

As to your battery concerns, there's nothing stopping someone from releasing a smartphone that earmarks x% of battery capacity for phone use, and cuts off the garnish apps before the entire device is dead (e.g. gaming, music, video, wifi). They'd just have to put some basic smarts in the battery pack to rotate which cells are prevented from running down and add some basic power management to the OS. I'm actually surprised Apple (self-proclaimed kings of the 'it just works'-world) didn't cram something like that into the iPhone.

IMO, truly personal computers are going to redefine computing and being connected is an important part of that. Not only connected to the internet, mind you - but connected to everyone and everything around you. While random internet browsing might always suck, any number of peer-to-peer clients, web-based device interfaces and mososo apps could easily justify the otherwise superfluous browser.

Example: It isn't ideal to read slashdot on my n800 - but i do enjoy being able to upload to flickr, check on my router logs/configs and schedule torrents from wherever I happen to be sitting and without waiting for a machine to boot up.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Bastardchyld]

the way I've been treated by them as a customer in the past, duh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duh
Duh implies the obviousness of a certain statement... I fail to see how the AC, could have possibly known how you have been treated in the past by Comcast. So if you did not outline this in your original post, then it must not be obvious.

I personally have had Comcast as my internet connection for over 3 years (in 3 different locations). With all of this I have never had an issue with Comcast Customer Service... This is mostly because I am able to tell them exactly what I need them to do in order to fix my problem... If you leave it up to them to figure it out you will have wasted a large amount of time and be left with a bad taste in your mouth, however this is no different than any other customer service, unless of course you made a mistake beyond all stupidity (i.e. forgot to turn on the PC).

Comcast is an Internet Provider if you want a more customer service centric organization then try speakeasy.net, which has (or at least had pre-best buy) the most customer service team out of all the ISPs I know of...

Oh any by the way congrats on your iPhone, and not using Comcast and what not personally I could care less, but I think everyone should be allowed to spend their money however they want.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Dare nMc]

The iPhone *is* a real tablet computer running a real operating system.

well tablet computer, is an attempt at comparing it to a Personal computer? to me the iphone is more a cool web appliance/phone, not a Personal computer. except for promising hacks, you can't load a program onto the iPhone, correct? Being able to hack it, just brings it up to par with say a Tivo, IE it may become a appliance that can be hacked, but is a Tivo also a Personal Computer? Being able to do fancy stuff in a web-page doesn't qualify it as a true PC in my book.
To me being a PC means that it is intended for people to be able to load and run a native language program, not just be able to customize with text files.

I guess if your going to call my Archos AV700 a tablet computer as well, their comparable in features, only lacking the phone bit.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[emaname]

I agree completely. The concept of 'all in one' introduces a whole new set of limitations when, if fact, it's an attempt to remove limitations. This design philosophy never fails to amuse me. I see it as another form of bloat-ware.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[DeepZenPill]

That's quite an inflammatory claim about the battery life. The battery life is actually one of the pleasantly surprising features of the phone. I use the ipod and browser regularly and typically go for more than 2 days before I need to recharge.

The sound quality of phone calls on the other hand...

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[prockcore]

Yeah I can make phone calls with my iPhone with no compromises on the phone experience

I'd say lack of voice dialing is a compromise on the phone experience.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[shelterpaw]

Though I don't own an iPhone, I have to agree with you. My girlfriend bought one to replace her SideKick. At first she used it now and then, but now she uses it all the time and the battery lasts a long while. She certainly doesn't charge it every day and it's now the primary way she communicates with Email. She's constantly browsing the web and watching TV shows and listening to music. I've never seen her use anything as much as her iPhone, but she still reads a ton of books.

In fact, she uses the iPhone so much that it's getting to the point where I could probably sneak out and she wouldn't know. Perhaps it's saying something about me. doh!

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[langelgjm]

Also, the browsing experience is perfectly fine. The ability to easily and autmatically zoom to content negates the claim of screen real estate. Everything can be as large or as small as you like.

I wonder if there is a similar sort of implementation for Pocket PC. I have a Fujitsu LOOX, which has a 640x480 4" screen, but using Pocket Internet Explorer (even with an add-on that allows for multiple browser windows) is still clunky and frustrating in general. A browser that could zoom in or out using the stylus instead of your fingers would be great.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Com2Kid]

The iPhone *is* a real tablet computer running a real operating system. It is crippled a bit, yes, but some of us would like to have a couple key features without having to haul a laptop around.

I would argue that Windows Mobile more fits that bill. My current phone has NetHack, a telnet client, a real keyboard, and can run any of three(+) web browsers.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[danbert8]

Any flip phones? I can't stand having the screen and buttons being vulnerable to whatever else is in my pocket.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Gadget_Guy]

Do people really need to be that connected? Probably not.

And do those same people really need to be contactable 24 hours a day? If not, then they do not even need a mobile phone in the first place.

Seriously, this is the same argument that people use against mobile/cell phones before they actually own one. But once they get used to having one (and to leaving it turned on all the time - yes Mum, I'm talking to you) then most people get dependant on the technology. I find now that I feel terribly isolated if I ever go out without my phone - especially if I am meeting friends somewhere and have no way of letting them know if I am running late.

I started using the internet on mobile phones years ago when I was into auction sites. I find that it puts you into a different mindset to be permanently connected to the net. It seems natural to always have access to the phonebook, or street map, or to look up a movie review while browsing in the DVD shop, or read the newspaper on the train, or grab the train timetable, or fill in a spare 5 minutes by checking out slashdot. Yes, it is all stuff that you can live without; at least, until you get used to having it.

There are ways around the screen resolution issues. I have a Nokia 9300 with a screen resolution of 640x200 which, when combined with Opera's Fit to Screen mode, does a really impressive job. However, if I find a site that still doesn't fit well - or is too slow to download - then I use Skweezer to reduce the amount of clutter in the HTML source code. Have a look at the original article when skweezed. Not quite as good as the print page version as linked by _PimpDaddy7_ below, but still a great improvement. There are some sites that I skweeze when browsing them on the desktop just to clean up the crap. I imagine even MySpace pages might look almost viewable using this site.

But you really should not get too hung up on the screen size issue. They are not intended to be desktop replacements. But if you need to make a last minute bid on eBay, then you can live with the slight inconvenience of having to scroll a bit more. It is more about connecting the internet with your life away from the computer, rather than reproducing the experience of sitting at your desk.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm willing to bet you've never used an iPhone day to day for any signifcant amount of time.

I've had mine for a few weeks now.

WOW.... you have had it for a while haven't you???

Let the wiz bang newness where off and let us know in a couple month what you think...... everyone love the smell of a new car...... it takes awhile for the little thinks that you which it did better or different to stop being irritating and become unacceptable.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[danbert8]

I fail to see how you've countered any of my claims. First of all, I hardly consider Safari a real browser, but that's an opinion.
 
Second, define "real OS". I'd like to think that a real OS allows you to install things, compile things, and edit files on the machine. From what I've heard, the iPhone is locked down, so it's not any more of an OS than an iPod is.
 
Real keyboard indicates physical keys, not pseudo keys on a touchscreen. If a responsive image counts as real, than I'm not a virgin. Oh, and fine, it doesn't require a mouse with a touch screen.
 
You also didn't address my memory comment, seeing as how more and more webpages require flash and java to display correctly. You didn't mention that whole vendor lock in thing either, since you can change wireless carriers, memory, programs, and even the battery in a tablet, as opposed to the iPhone, which locks you into everything Apple... But anyways, what were you saying again?

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[mattatwork]

If I want a new ringtone I just bluetooth the mp3/4 across. I can't believe that *all* those phones aren't available in the US. Ringtones are a big money maker for the cell companies and for the recording industry. My wife and I upgraded our phones with verizon and were shocked at how much it cost to download one simple ringtone (it was like 2 or 3 dollars!). I'd imagine with all the P2P sharing/piracy of music, the RIAA or someone else related to the recording industry has probably shut down the possibility of freely sharing music between your PC and your phone in the US....

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[xENoLocO]

I can't use my own ringtones on my TMobile Samsung T509... I have to pay $2.50 for a ringtone that I can't hear before I buy. It usually is some shitty part of the song, too. I can buy the same song on itunes for 99 cents.

Also, they look for any excuse they can find to make you connect to the net. Often times just doing it without asking, which of course costs me money. They also recently rearranged their content pages for downloading ringtones. I now have to click about 7 or 8 links before I can buy a ringtone. It used to be 3 or 4. But, Im' paying for bandwidth by the KB... so it makes more sense for them to juice me.

This situation is bullshit, but what can I do?

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[kisrael]

Probably my biggest problem w/ a Windows Mobile device (one of the ones w/ the slide out keyboard), besides the UI disgrace that is Outlook, was is tendency to dial up people on its own accord, due in part to *utterly* inadequate keyguarding, though I swear once it managed to call my mom despite sitting their, alone, on a shelf, face up, with nothing touching its screen.

I'm not sure how the other browsers are, but the default IE one sucked, at least compared to iPhone. (also, w/ Sprint I tended to avoid unlimited data, but I had to accept ATT's lowcost plan, and despite that as a constraint, it was actually freeing.)

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[mrchaotica]

This situation is bullshit, but what can I do?

What, are you kidding? Quit buying ringtones, stupid!

Consumer whores like you are what enable the industry to be as screwed up as it is!

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet, the iphone screen is the most resilient of any device out there. Yet, you don't talk about that.

Here is just some more food to keep you trolling.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[ncc74656]

This situation is bullshit, but what can I do?

Um...buy a better phone and service that doesn't lock you into that BS? My Treo 650 can use any MIDI file (or, with the free MiniTones, any MP3 file) as a ringtone. The two I'm using now were ripped from my MythTV box and put on an SD card, but downloading them wouldn't cost anything extra because my service plan includes unlimited data.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft Labs has a program called DeepFish or something like that under development. It's still in beta though.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

its not that we HAVE to be connected, but it is like getting used to broadband internet connection and then going back to 56k. I got the t-mobile MDA last year! and it still kicks the iPhone to the curb. I have 76k gprs and wifi on my phone, quake, nes emulator, google maps, full internet browser, windows media player that can even play divx files. there is tons of 3rd party programs already out for windows mobile that all work great. I can even type on my phone without looking at the screen cause I have a full keyboard and I guarantee I can type faster than an iphone user. my phone works excellent as a phone, 1 out of 100 websites won't load properly. I have flash on my phone I can watch youtube, I can even do a google search for a phone number click the number from the browser and it starts dialing. windows makes it so there is at least 2 ways to do everything, touch screen and buttons. I have dropped my phone plenty of time and since I have a flash card and not a hard drive, my phone fine. my phone has ben submergerd under water and still works! the wifi work perfectly but does suck the power out of my phone but no matter how much I use my phone it will still last a 2 days without a charge and recharges in 30 mins. I have plenty of mem cards wich work faster than hdd's. my phone is slightly thicker than an iPhone but its definantly worth it because of the full keyboard. there is an autocorrect typing feature that works great and an autocomplete that is works really well and LEARNS, the more you type a word the more often it will appear when you begin to type it. oh yeah I can remove my battery myself in 2 seconds, it came with 3 stylus's has outlook, word, powerpoint, excel, acrobat, and is perfect for college students specially pre-med's with all these notes and studyguides. I do all my homework on this device where ever I feel like it and has gone threw a lot of abuse without even a single scratch on the screen, o h did I mention I can edit photos, and yes even create websites from my phone with a nifty ftp client. I can download and upload files to almost every website. windows roxs your soxs off and u know it. most pocket pc programs work on my phone too. an iphone is like a nintendo wii, why buy that crap when you can get a deluxe xbox 360. there already is so many programs out for ppc that it puts an iphone to shame. iv had an nes emulator that works great( plus I got real buttons to use) and I can't even remember how long iv had it, like 4months, and iPhone just came out with one. just because apple makes it dosnt mean its worth buying. oh did I mention I got my phone for FREE. I let them borrow 250 in mail in rebates but iv already gotten those back.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[raju1kabir]

Did anyone else read that Nokia 9300 review that Gadget Guy linked to and have their brain start to hurt? It reads like it was originally written in Japanese, then sequentially babelfished to German, Spanish, Korean, and finally to 18th Century English (does Babelfish have such an option?). Bizarre.

How else would you get passages like these:

But the manufacturers decreased the motion and made it minimum in the device. That means that when typing you won't feel the pressure at all and your finger rests on the utmost confinement.

The process of getting accustomed takes not so long and then you'll never pay any attention to this trifle. Comparing the quality of the realization with Nokia 9210i I may surely say the manufacturers improved the ergonomics of the device and decreased its size.

The joystick is medium in comfort and can't be called comfortable, it rouses compound feelings. And if one gets used to the keypad with time the experience of the colleagues shows the joystick is not the same. A user either accepts it at once or refuses at all.

Your files may be also disposed here. The ideology is really the same as in a usual PC. Let's consider standard functions and their realization.

The reception quality is average for Nokia phones and rouses no cavils.

They are rousing my cavils, that's for sure.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[lupis42]

The problem with a tablet is that it's large, adds one to the number of devices you have to carry, and doesn't fit in a pocket. What I want is to have a phone that syncs email and calender with the service of my choice (corporate Exchange/Lotus, Gmail/Google calander, whatever) ideally can do Google Maps+GPS, and can be used to check Wikipedia and IMDB to settle arguments in bars/after movies. I want it to do all this more or less wherever I am, check for new email every 10 minutes or so, be reasonably fas and responsive, have buttons, and still be a good phone. A good camera (1.3+ Megapixels, w/ lens) doesn't hurt, neither does music/video playback, and docs/spreadsheets, but those are all extras. I would pay 500$ for a phone like that if it worked with my carrier (Sprint), and I would get an unlimited data plan to go with my voice plan, but as far as I can tell, there isn't a damn thing in that category. Think of it as an always online PDA that happens to be a phone. The Moto-Q is the only thing I've looked at that hasn't obviously failed on any of these counts, but I can't find a working one to try out, and Sprint tells me that getting it before December will have a 225$ premium, because I'm not a new customer. So basically, I'm SOL.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

xenoloco brought up perfectly valid points...'consumer whore'?

C'mon man...lighten up. How much shit do you own?

Treat others with the same respect you would on the street...or are you an asshole to everybody all the time?

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[brianosaurus]

Amen to that! It boggles my mind to think that ringtones are a multi-billion dollar "industry". Preying on ignorance should not be the core business model of a service provider. I wish I could make my phone service decisions based on the merits of the various options, rather than just trying to pick the one that screws me over in the least obtrusive ways.

If San Francisco gets municipal wifi (heck, even if they don't, there's probably already enough free & open access points where I spend most of my time), I might be tempted to switch off the cellular on my windows mobile phone and just use Skype over wifi for free.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Rexdude]

Any of the Nseries devices from Nokia can do the things you list, except for GPS which currently is only on the N95. Memory can be upgraded by mini/microSD cards, they support music(mp3/aac/wma/wav/midi as well as streaming realmedia), voice dialing, all have minimum 2mp cameras that can record 320x240 mp4 video(N93/95 support VGA or 640x480 res. video),sync contacts and calendar with Outlook/Notes (theres recently a new free 'Mail4Exchange' app available for download for Exchange email), pop3/imap email,MMS,bluetooth,infrared(on some of them) 3G/edge.Except for N70,N72 and N90, the rest use the S60 3rd edition OS, with its improved browser that can render full websites and supports RSS. The included free version of QuickOffice lets you view (but not edit) MS Office documents. One suggestion-always buy unlocked phones, and dont get stuck into one operator/usage plan.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[SuperKendall]

I fail to see how you've countered any of my claims. First of all, I hardly consider Safari a real browser, but that's an opinion.

I might have the opinion the sky is muave, but that doesn't make it so. You can't offer factually incorrect information and then say it's OK because it's your "opinion".

Second, define "real OS". I'd like to think that a real OS allows you to install things, compile things, and edit files on the machine. From what I've heard, the iPhone is locked down, so it's not any more of an OS than an iPod is.

People are installing, compiling, and editing things on the iPhone today. The OS allows for that, even if the managemnet GUI does not yet. Next.

Real keyboard indicates physical keys, not pseudo keys on a touchscreen.

I can touch it, it responds. That is real.

You also didn't address my memory comment, seeing as how more and more webpages require flash and java to display correctly.

Really? It seemed to me the trend was CSS and DHTML. The one area Flash has taken off is in embedded video. So far I've not missed flash for anything.

since you can change wireless carriers, memory, programs, and even the battery in a tablet, as opposed to the iPhone, which locks you into everything Apple...

Again the OS allows for changes even if the management GUI does not - I can remove or add programs. As for changing carriers and memory - I don't care as long as it works. It does work.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[nine-times]

Your Archos device, as far as I know, isn't running general purpose (though modified) OS. Just because Apple hasn't opened the iPhone to 3rd party developers doesn't mean that there isn't a full SDK somewhere that allows you to make desktop-type applications for it.

It's a real computer, but just a closed platform. Those are different sorts of distinctions. I could make a closed platform desktop system and not allow people to write their own applications, but if it ran on a desktop chipset, had all the desktop hardware, and was running a real OS, it would still be a "real computer".

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[darrylo]

In fact, she uses the iPhone so much that it's getting to the point where I could probably sneak out and she wouldn't know. Perhaps it's saying something about me. doh!

No, you need to get an iPhone, too, so that the two of you can have meaningful, deep discussions via the iPhones. :-)

(No, no, I'm not serious. Really.)

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[mrchaotica]

How much shit do you own?

I own a reasonable amount of stuff, if that's what you mean. However, none of it was "shit" when I bought it.

Anyway, back to the point: nobody needs ringtones. My phone, for example, sounds -- gasp -- like a ringing phone when I get a call! If you don't like the phone company's business tactics, then don't support them. Deal with not having a ringtone, or get yourself a phone that you can load them on yourself. But don't reward the assholes for attempting to screw you! You're already bending over for the basic monthly plan; buying extra crap that you, by all rights, should be able to copy from your computer for free is equivalent to saying "thank you sir, may I have another?!"

And you know what? Like xENoLocO, I don't like paying for my phone to access the Internet. So, what I did is call up the phone company and told them to turn off the functionality. Now, even if I hit the little globe icon button on my phone by mistake, it tells me "connection unsuccessful" and doesn't charge me. Amazing!

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[ssstraub]

I'm replying to an obvious troll, but have you ever even used an iPhone?

Feature list comparisons do not always tell the whole story, ESPECIALLY when a software interface is involved. It doesn't matter if it includes the kitchen sink, if you can't figure out how to get to it easily, it's sluggish at best, or the phone resets 50% of the time you get there and the other 50% of the time your hacking the OS to forcibly close all apps to keep the memory from being full.

Oh, and the MDA loses the media player contest terribly compared to the iPhone's built-in iPod.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Achromatic1978]

I might have the opinion the sky is muave, but that doesn't make it so. You can't offer factually incorrect information and then say it's OK because it's your "opinion".

Really? It seemed to me the trend was CSS and DHTML. The one area Flash has taken off is in embedded video. So far I've not missed flash for anything.

Nice double standard you got going there.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[xENoLocO]

Wow... talk about running your mouth.

You're assuming I purchase ringtones frequently. In fact, you've gone beyond assumptions and preemptively called me stupid, and a "consumer whore". I'm now obligated to call you an assumption whore. Stop assuming things, stupid!

I've purchased 2 ring tones in the last year. Occasionally, when I'm bored, I'll browse the offerings but get disgusted by the prices. If I do want new ringtones, though, I have no option but to buy them at $2.50 a pop.

Next time, if you pause to consider what you're about to say, you should probably just shut your fucking mouth. That, or just be nice to strangers. I'd hate to see the kind of things that would happen to you if you talk to strangers like that in person.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

okay I've been trying to figure this one out for years now, but I give up, so please tell me: why would you need, or even want, to sync email to your phone?

I just don't get it...

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[antek9]

That's what made me choose the Blackberry 8800, too. Wikipedia, Google Maps and GPS. You can even write, adopt and install your own Java applications without any artificial barriers, and on the consumer's side, use any MP3 or MIDI file as a ringer for any / all / a group of callers.

Back to the browsing experience: I don't know what kind of data plan the iPhone is sold with, but it does make me nervous that the iPhone will act as a regular browser and will request the 'bling' version of any website. I mean, loading a slashdot article with some hundred comments will easily be in the MB range.

The Blackberry (among others, I'm sure) kind of protects you from maxing out your whole month's data budget in minutes by having a Blackberry server act as a proxy that strips down websites to bare information. Makes pages load a lot faster as well. That's what I would call smart surfing on a smart phone. The iPhone is to a Blackberry what AOL is to GMail, i figure. Still, it's your choice, and all due respect for a well designed blinkenlights phone goes to Apple.

Damn, that last line will probably get me modded troll again (which would imply me posting stuff that's in contrast to my real opinions, which is of course plain wrong, at least in all my posts so far).

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

Having trouble deciding if this question was for real or not

Starting with synching your contacts, and being able to use e-mail on the move (without a laptop/pda/whatever)...

I use a Nokia N95, desktop at home, laptop (and the phone) when travelling. I'd ALSO use a decent umpc, but haven't bought one yet (maybe 5-7" with a decent res) rather than the laptop also for travelling, maybe a short break - weekend away or whatever...

But then as a consultant I'm pretty much "in touch" 24/7... By that I don't mean *working* 24/7, but the need to be available (I have contacts both 8 hours ahead, and 8 hours behind me) is paramount to my business.

Hell, I even have IM (all in one - yahoo msn icq jabber google), push mail from exchange, pop mail from my other accounts, and the SIP phone running most of the time...

I guess the short answer to your question would be - not everyone works from a cubicle, or 9 to 5...

Next, I want a phone that'll handle 2 sims. Simultaneously.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[nbucking]

I agree totally. I use a Dell axim and a small Samsung flip phone. They both fit in the same pocket easily. And I don't have to worry the battery since my dell lasts for days just like my phone. Combined features beat the iphony and both are around 4 years old.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[lupis42]

The one's from that series that I've seen have looked really cool, but I can't get them to work with Sprint, and I haven't seen anything in the prices for plans from other carriers that makes me happy. Plus, my wife and I are on the same plan, so we would ideally need a carrier that could give us two rebated phones at sign up, and since half the people we call are on Sprint, the free mobile to mobile calling becomes an issue.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[Anonymous Coward]

hm, well, the question was real, but in all likelyhood damaged by exposure to synchronization software (ActiveSync and PC Suite, really)(and possibly a significant blood alcohol level), which are fine if you want to synchronize your Outlook inbox, the whole Outlook inbox, and nothing but the Outlook inbox. perhaps the question should have been if anyone has come a cross a bit more clever synchronization tool that will let you, say, filter stuff.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[ThePengwin]

I will only consider a phone if it meets these criteria:

• It is unlocked - or can be unlocked.
• It is not on a plan.
• it can access a file sent to it (be it mp3 wav amr jpg etc.)
• It has a cheap and simple way to connect it to a computer (bluetooth, IrDA, or data cable).

If it meets these then ill look at the phone :). I never buy a single ringtone from a service. In Australia all the ringtone services are extreemly pricey, and give you crap, espically Jamster.

ever since my first phone ive made my own ringtones, by buying or ripping an mp3, cutting it and converting it. When you get it sorted out its dirt cheap. Its also nice to know that your phone is the only phone in town that has Weebl's Badgers as the ringtone :).

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[lupis42]

Calendar: I don't mostly use this for work, but for personal stuff, weekend trips, gaming sessions and the like. Since the sort of plans that need to wind up on there rarely get made within spitting distance of a computer, having a calendar that can be accessed PDA style is the only way I'll ever get the use out of it that I want. Email: Again, I don't care much about work email, if I'm not at a computer there's not much work I can do, but for various personal reasons I frequently find a more data-centric, easily archived form of communication useful. If you've ever tried to sell something on Craigslist, you can appreciate what I mean here. Google Maps: This should be obvious. Office documents: I do shopping lists on the PC anyway. For that matter, when DMing at a not home location, it's nice to have my digital notes around, and not have to lug a laptop. Web: IMDB and Wikipedia to settle arguments in bars, online banking and Netflix so that things can be done when I think of them, instead of later when I've forgotten the details.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[T-Bone-T]

That last bit made me laugh. My girlfriend is getting two iPhones for Christmas. Guess who gets the one she isn't going to use? She decided that if she got an iPhone I would start dating her phone.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[T-Bone-T]

The iPhone plan includes unlimited data.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[mrchaotica]

You're assuming I purchase ringtones frequently.... I've purchased 2 ring tones in the last year.

No I'm not; twice is enough! (Once is reasonable, because you don't see the bandwidth charges until afterwards. The second time, though, you should have known better!)

In fact, you've gone beyond assumptions and preemptively called me stupid, and a "consumer whore".

Maybe it hurts, but nevertheless it continues to appear to be the truth.

If I do want new ringtones, though, I have no option but to buy them at $2.50 a pop.

False! You have three other options:

• Deal with not having the ringtone, even though you want it, because you realize it's a rip-off
• Get a different phone, one which can be connected to the computer and have ringtones loaded on it that way. (Or it may be that your carrier has crippled your phone; in that case, get a different carrier.)
• Hack your phone to un-cripple it (although from a "punish-the-assholes-responsible" perspective, switching carriers would be better).

Personally, I don't care about ringtones (as I prefer my phone to sound like a phone). But I do care about games. As such, I would like to get some for my RAZR (on Cingular). However, I refuse to do so on principle, because I ought to be able to download free ones to my computer and transfer them to my phone. Sooner or later I'll figure out how to accomplish that; meanwhile, I'll simply not play games on the phone. It's really Not. That. Hard!

Look, if you want to complain about the phone company being a rip-off, that's fine. In fact, I encourage it! If you want to buy ringtones and assorted other crap (e.g. 2kb "wallpapers" for $30, hyperbolically speaking), that's fine too (but I don't encourage it). However, if you try to do both -- that is, complain about how they're ripping you off while continuing to reward their behavior by buying their shit, then you are indeed a consumer whore, whether you like it or not!

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[cycoj]

What I want from a phone is to make phone calls, and every once in awhile, check the time. But apparently, they don't make those phones in the US anymore. I can't even get a ringer that sounds like a phone on my cell. That's one of the things that has been bothering me forever. They cramp more and more things into those bloody things. Crap I really don't need but that one useful feature they never managed. Why can't phones not sync their time to the network? The feature about my phone I use the most apart from txt and calls is looking what time it is. Now all phones I have owned were quite terrible with regards to accuracy, they'd usually go wrong by about 5 min over 1-2months. If they'd get the time from the network I would not have to worry if my time is actually correct.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[mrchaotica]

The iPhone *is* a real tablet computer

No, a tablet computer is something you write on with a stylus. Poking an on-screen keyboard with a finger doesn't count. A Thinkpad X60 Tablet is a tablet computer; an iPhone is not.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[cthulhu11]

I've been in situations where I couldn't find the location of something or I needed to find someone's phone number, and I was able to fetch that information on my iPhone web browser pretty easily In that sort of situation, I use Google SMS. I don't need an expensive phone or plan to use it, and I'm not constrained to Attingular's expensive and limited coverage.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[nine-times]

Who decided that you need a stylus to have it be a "tablet"? What kind of arbitrary distinction is that?

It seems to me that what distinguishes a tablet from other form factors is that it's only a screen, without any separate input device to speak of. Basically, if you make a laptop that doesn't fold over and make it so the screen is always exposed, it's a tablet PC.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[mrchaotica]

Who decided that you need a stylus to have it be a "tablet"?

The Sumerians and Hittites and Greeks and Romans and whatnot did, that's who!

A "tablet" has always been a device for writing. Writing is always done with a writing utensil, such as a pen, pencil, or stylus. Therefore, if it is a tablet, it uses a stylus.

Clay tablets used styluses. Wax tablets used styluses. Graphics (e.g. Wacom) tablets use styluses. Tablet PCs use styluses. Historically, every single thing that's ever been called a "tablet" (except for pills, apparently) has used a stylus! Being able to write on the thing -- not just poke at characters on an on-screen keyboard -- is the defining feature!

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[nine-times]

Oooooo, look at me, I can link to irrelevant Wikipedia articles!

So we have a definition for wax tablets, clay tablets, medicine tablets, and Scots tablets. Now what's relevant here? How about we actually link to the Wikipedia article on tablet PCs. That's what we're talking about, right? Ok, so here's what the Wikipedia has to say:

A Tablet PC is a notebook- or slate-shaped mobile computer. Its touchscreen or digitizing tablet technology allows the user to operate the computer with a stylus or digital pen, or a fingertip, instead of a keyboard or mouse.

The emphasis is mine, but the article talks in a couple places about touch screens and virtual keyboards. I don't know why you feel compelled to manufacture false distinctions, but there's nothing in the computer industry that says that tablet PCs necessarily have styluses. What do you call the form factor of a portable PC that doesn't have a keyboard or mouse, but operation is achieved through a touchscreen? You can make up your own terms, but everyone in the computer industry calls that a tablet.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[nine-times]

A "tablet" has always been a device for writing.

The most credit I can give you here is that this much is true. Tablets do imply a kind of "writing", and the fact that tablet PCs allow for text input is part of why they call them "tablets".

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[mrchaotica]

The emphasis is mine, but the article talks in a couple places about touch screens and virtual keyboards.

I don't disagree that some Tablet PCs have passive digitizers that can be used with fingers in addition to styluses. However, the stylus input is more important. I'm typing this on a Tablet PC right now; believe me, it would be nearly useless (or rather, only as useful as a "normal" laptop) if it only had a touchscreen.

Incidentally, the software stack is also rather important -- unfortunately, it's much more useful in Windows than Linux because Linux doesn't have any real handwriting recognition (and especially no Tablet Input Panel). I'm in the planning stages of fixing that, by the way...

Anyway, tell you what: if you can find a single device marketed as a "tablet" of any sort that doesn't have a stylus, I'll admit defeat.

Re:how connected do we have to be?

[nine-times]

Again, you're trying to draw distinctions that don't mean anything, so I'm not going to bother trying. Find me a PC motherboard being sold today that doesn't have USB suport on it. I doubt there are any. Does that mean it must have USB to be a PC motherboard? Find me a Palm device that doesn't have a stylus. I don't remember there being any, but does that mean it wouldn't be a Palm device if they made it to be entirely operated by your fingers?

The real question here isn't whether anyone is choosing to release tablet PCs without styluses, but rather is a tablet PC without a stylus still a tablet PC? The answer is unequivocally "yes".

Conclusion

[_PimpDaddy7_]

Print page:
http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArt icle.jhtml?articleID=201202372

Funny:
One thing that became obvious to me as I looked at these various Web interfaces is that data speed isn't as important as good software.

You think????

The good news, as you might expect, is the Apple iPhone. The genius of Apple is its ability, over and over again, to completely reinvent, from the ground up, the user interface for hardware, and to support it with brilliant software. Web browsing on the iPhone is a paradigm shift, a completely different experience -- just as the BlackBerry was, in its time, a paradigm shift.

The elements of the technology that makes the iPhone so different will find their way into other devices, just as the BlackBerry's thumbpad and push e-mail have become more or less standard on smartphones. Touchscreens and direct interaction with the Web page will become standards of their own sort because they've come along just in time as computing, both personal and business, moves to the Web.

I've stated this to many people who've asked me about the iPhone. Even if it FAILS, it's technology, features, etc. will be copied into many other phones.

Re:Conclusion

[Anonymous Coward]

Alternatively people will realise the features are already included in other phones like the Nokia and MS phones. I've already noticed a lot more comments on Slashdot that don't instantly revert to 'I just need a phone to make calls' whenever there's an article about a smartphone.

What I want to know is...

[bitfarmer]

...will they blend?

http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe &video=iphone

Re:What I want to know is...

[hcdejong]

type=unsafe

What? Sticking something into a blender is NC-17 now? Crazy Americans...

Re:What I want to know is...

[TheRaven64]

Videos from that site are divided into 'try it at home' (safe) and 'don't try it at home' (unsafe). Blending fruit to make a drink is safe. Blending a crowbar to make iron filings is not.

Re:What I want to know is...

[D4MO]

The real wtf is that the safety type is in the query string...

Hey kids try this, it's fun!

Re:What I want to know is...

[JonathanR]

You posted teh frickin' link, and you're still asking the question?

Nokia E70

[Frankie70]

What about the NokiaE70 (this
links to Maddox's comparison between E70 & IPhone.

Re:Nokia E70

[duranaki]

What? What is this strange Symbian and Series 60 you speak of? The most prolific smart phone in the world based on an OS designed from the ground up as a mobile connected OS? Never heard of it.

Re:Nokia E70

[weave]

I have a Nokia N95 -- I was wondering why they avoided any phones running the latest S60 series browser too.

Re:Nokia E70

[fan of lem]

I own this phone. It had to be reset once in a while (runs out of memory), but apart from that it works great. I chose it based on the ff.:

- need to write SMS using 1 hand (numeric keypad)
- fast typing when necessary (e-mail, posting on forums, writing notes, etc) via qwerty
- excellent resolution: 352x416 (or 416x352 depending on orientation) / 16M colors
- WIFI
- good built-in browser. I alternate between it and Opera.

Probably the best feature I found _after_ purchasing it is that it can sync with our company Exchange server (Inbox, Calendar and Contacts). With wifi at home, I can schedule daily syncs without any fuss. All my appointments and mail get downloaded to my phone 2x a day without the need for user intervention.

The E61 is also a good alternative, having a bigger screen size (although lower res than the E70).

Re:Nokia E70

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't get it. You are not talking good about Apple, and you didn't get a "Troll" or "Flamebait"?

I'm a little upset that /. has become a mainstream of publicity for Apple and anyone differing with the opinion that Apple can't be wrong is set to have the worst karma.

I even have an HTC phone, and I paid less than $50 for it. I don't think 10 times that price will cover the price of a touchscreen. Don't take me wrong (all those Apple fans), the iPhone is a really nice piece of hardware. What I don't conceive is that people sees it as the best thing out there and pay for it, when it's not.

Re:Nokia E70

[caluml]

Want to track yourself for the world to see?

Re:Nokia E70

[popo]

I have a Nokia E61 (Symbian60) running Opera (not Opera Mini, which blows except for the speed increase of the proxy servers) and I have to say IMHO it beats the pants off anything on Blackberry or Treo. The wifi+ smooth scrolling and fullscreen options makes for an amazing browsing experience -- and it does a great job re-rendering pages for the small screen.

I'd also like to point out that the year is 2007 and I just PURCHASED MY FIRST WEB BROWSER (Opera for the E61). I never in my life thought I'd actually pay for browser software, but it's a damn nice browser.

Re:Nokia E70

[dwater]

I have a Nokia N95 -- I was wondering why they avoided any phones running the latest S60 series browser too. He said in the article that this was because it is, in his opinion, impractical to browse the web without a full keyboard (virtual or otherwise). Of course, you can add a real keyboard (bt) to the N95, but that probably doesn't count.

Of course, there *are* S60 phones with full keyboards, but he seemed to think they're not available from carriers in the US....not sure if that's true or not. In a year or two, hopefully that'll not be true any more (with the help from Google, hopefully).

I hear the E90 is awesome, and has just started hitting the US too, so it'd be interesting to see how that compares.

Of course, the iPhone *is* really very nice (I get that impression anyway), but it's only a UI thing. Personally, I don't much like Apple's desktop ui, so I'm unsure of their phone one(have to wait to find out) - they make it look good, but it's totally inflexible. I might be tempted by a subsequent version, if they get the features in there and perhaps make it a bit smaller. If they open it up to 3rd party s/w (or it's easily hackable) then that might make the high price worthwhile.

Darn

[truthsearch]

When I read the title I was hoping to see a video of smartphones getting shot to pieces. Damn!

Ya nice benchmarks

[svendsen]

Isn't creating a benchmark (screen size) completely BS for this "test". Hmm my benchmark #5 is it must be made by Apple. Oh look the iPhone passes. No shit. Rigging an experiment usually gives you the answer you want.

The rest of it seemed very biased. Wonder if Apple was paying him. lol.

Disclaimer: I have only used one of the phones in this crap of a "review". It was the iPhone. After 45 mins I gave up because I could not type on the keyboard without making a lot of mistakes. And before I get flamed it does not mean the iPhone is bad it means for me it doesn't work.

Re:Ya nice benchmarks

[svendsen]

Man moderators are on crack today. Look did you read the article?

He starts off saying both virtual and normal QWERTY are bad. No examples, no proof, nothing. BUT yet then in another part states why the iPhone screen is so much better giving specific pixel info.

So how come he doesn't go into detail then about the pros and cons on the keyboard? Why spend so much detail in one section (display) but not really any details at all about the input?

His rules that he created are biased. You can;t use the devices then create the rules. He should have gone out and asked people what they expected, used that for the rules then compare. He made the rules when he already knew the answer. That has 0 value.

Why didn't he put other browsers on the smart phones that accept them and give feedback on those? If he was going to go on what is the default fine, but since he gave so much detail on the screen size why didnt he say things in the browser review about 3rd party options may solve the issues.

He does all the real details on the thing the iPhone is very strong on (display) and doesn;t put the same detail to his other rules. Something does not add up.

So please tell me how my post was a troll?

Re:Ya nice benchmarks

[Rycross]

You offended the cult of Apple by insinuating that the iPhone was anything less than perfect. Thats why you got marked troll.

Re:Ya nice benchmarks

[npsimons]

You offended the cult of Apple by insinuating that the iPhone was anything less than perfect. Thats why you got marked troll.

Slashdot, a site originally all about Linux and similarly geeky things, has been overrun with Apple fanboys, Microsoft apologists and all around assholes. There a few who are extremely insightful (most of them I have marked as friends), and you learn to try to ignore the Apple hype articles. What annoys me (besides the Apple hype) is that I have the Apple section turned off, yet I still see hype about the iPhone.

I've discussed this problem before, and I've been down-modded for pointing out the obvious and saying anything but nice things about Apple. I'm no longer surprised or amused. My best advice: avoid like the plague any article with the words "Apple", "iPhone", or "Mac OS" in them. Look elsewhere for intelligent discussion.

Re:Ya nice benchmarks

[Askmum]

Calling a screen resolution of 480 x 320 "one giant leap for handheld devices"? Oh please. My 10 year old HP 620 LX does 640 x 240. How in the sane world can 480 x 320 then be considered "one giant leap for handheld devices"? Is Apple really 10 years behind?

As everyone (except maybe for Apple fanboys) know, there are already a number of PDAs out there wich offer true VGA at 640 x 480. Double the size of the "giant leap" of 480 x 320.
This comparison is a piece of crud. Mod me down.

From personal experience...

[Shoeler]

I've got both a Blackberry 8700g and an iPhone - the former used for work e-mail and the latter for personal stuff. Before I got the iPhone, I loved my Blackberry. It was a big improvement over my RAZR at the time, and fairly fast due to the server-side processing of the websites I visited with it.

Then I got the iPhone and now I'm probably going to dump my Blackberry. Having and using the iPhone has soured my Blackberry experience. I'm now tired of seeing the HTML in e-mails instead of viewing the full e-mail. (For those of you without a Blackberry, it absolutely sucks at HTML mail - it displays all the code instead of stripping it out, FWIW, I use the client-side push instead of server-side push so that may be the problem) Having the iPhone and seeing e-mail as it was meant to be seen changed that.

Similarly the mostly-full version of Safari has changed my usage of the Blackberry's crippled browser.

As the article states, the iPhone is not without its problems. Safari crashes (I've never seen the Blackberry browser ever crash) semi-often, say once every 2-3 days in my usage, and its lack of Flash support is annoying. I haven't missed Java yet.

Data speed is it's albatross, but with the "real" web, I've personally been able to look beyond its mobile speed deficiency. When it's on a fast Wifi network, it REALLY shines and I'm still amazed by how well it does in rendering sites. Youtube has never looked better.

Re:From personal experience...

[Anonymous Coward]

For those of you without a Blackberry, it absolutely sucks at HTML mail - it displays all the code instead of stripping it out, FWIW, I use the client-side push instead of server-side push so that may be the problem)

Sounds like a problem on your client-side push setup. Whenever I see a message on or touched by a BlackBerry, it is completely stripped of all HTML. Same with Exchange Direct Push (unless you're running the latest software, which supports HTML email.)

Re:From personal experience...

[NDPTAL85]

Have you applied the iPhone 1.0.1 update yet? Its made Safari a LOT more stable for me. Takes about a week for it to crash for me now. When it starts getting crashy by the way just power down and then turn on the phone again.

Re:From personal experience...

[Shoeler]

Yup - and it crashed more often before for sure. I may even have over-stated the crashiness of it now.

Re:From personal experience...

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest you ask your IT department if they support the iPhone which uses IMAP. My company supports blackberry but doesn't support the iPhone, and we are a hip interactive advertising agency...

FIGHT

[hxnwix]

Oh no, this isn't even fair. *cringe* *WinCE*

Re:FIGHT

[Anonymous Coward]

at least microsoft allows third party development. infact, they encourage it. so much for all the whopping and hollering about lock in around here eh? where are all the apple fanbois when someone screams about vendor lock in around here?

Re:FIGHT

[hxnwix]

It seems that the microsoft fanbois are the only ones screaming about it, eh? Isn't that strange? Microsoft pointing out that Apple isn't open enough? Bwahahahahaha

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Browsing the internet on a phone is like taking a road trip on a moped.

Re:Why?

[adisakp]

Browsing the internet on a phone is like taking a road trip on a moped.

The iPhone is probably one of the first phone devices to actually have a usable web-browser. I played with it in the store for quite a bit and found that their rendering engine is capable of displaying full pages with correct layouy by drawing the webpage at a higher resolution internally and scales down with anti-aliasing. You can see pages as they were designed (for the most part) and very easily zoom in and out. It's better than any other phone or PDA for that matter.

What sucked in my test of the iPhone was the phone. The volume on the phone was too quiet to hear a call in the crowded Apple store even when I turned the loudness all the way up. Same for the speaker phone. I can hear conversations on my three year old samsung phone if I make a call on the Chicago El (our train system). Maybe the iPhone volume works better with the headphones but the volume for the built-in speakers (earphone and speakerphone) are way too low to use except in a quiet environment.

Re:Why?

[puck13]

Because full sized cars are larger, heavier, power hungry, often overkill for short trips, and won't fit in your pocket.

Biased

[DesertBlade]

I only use mobile browsing to look up addresses and checking the news. Using beyond411 on the blackberry makes searches fast and easy.

Even before the review starts it defends the iPhone with it's virtual keyboard and then how it's screen is in a class by itself.

Re:Biased

[darrylo]

True, true.

However, a big advantage of the iPhone is that you can do more. Want to know what movies are showing and where? Look it up. Want to know a store's hours? Look it up. Yada, etc. (Admittedly, the recent appearance of iPhone-optimized web pages do help a lot.)

"But I can call up XXX and just ask", some people will say. Sure, you can make a phone call. You can also do that while sitting at your computer. So, why don't you? :-)

Opera anyone?

[Rayonic]

I love how the article glosses over Opera. It's barely mentioned once, and certainly not looked at.

I guess the ability to run a third-party browser would be an "unfair comparison" to the iPhone.

Re:Opera anyone?

[A Friendly Troll]

I love how the article glosses over Opera. It's barely mentioned once, and certainly not looked at. Yeah, it's silly. Of course mobile browsing comes on top using - surprise! - the iPhone, when the other tested alternatives are absolutely horrible. Makes me wonder about the article's agenda, especially with the mention of "trouble installing a third-party browser"...

Opera Mini already has 0.24% of the entire browser "market share", according to some statistics. Now, that's impressive, especially when you convert that percentage to something more absolute. For example, there is one Opera Mini user for every 19 Safari users, or one for every 60 Firefox users.

But is it surprising? No. Opera Mini has become the mobile browser of choice for a lot of people. It was the first browser to make a real push on the mobile market and truly bring the web to mobile phones. And it shows - not only does Opera Mini often come preinstalled on a lot of phones (as does its more capable older sister, Opera Mobile), but you have people wanting to install it before anything else.

It's a work of wonder. I love it.

Re:Opera anyone?

[Arterion]

This was my objection to the article. PIE sucks a big one, but Opera is a damn good browser, and they only keep making it better. It might not be as "slick" as Safari, but it's still pretty slick, and definitely usable. But it's also a "desktop browser", too, and has all the features you'd expect from one.

Re:Opera anyone?

[the JoshMeister]

Opera Mini 3 is a pretty good browser. Opera Mini 4 beta looks quite nice, and makes a fairly decent attempt at copying the iPhone browser's zooming functionality*, but parts of it are painfully unstable, requiring the user to remove the battery to reset the device (this is based on my testing with both the Treo 650 and 680). I just got finished sending some feedback to the Opera team about some of my experiences with Opera Mini 4 beta:

While Opera Mini 4 beta is certainly the nicest looking free browser for the Treo, its instability makes it unbearably frustrating and practically impossible to use.

The browser frequently locks up the Treo on multiple sites, requiring the battery to be pulled. Trying to press Stop doesn't do anything, nor does waiting well over a minute for the browser to say something other than "Loading 0/x kB". This has happened numerous times when trying to access a number of different Web sites, including the following:

* When clicking on "My Opera" in the "Bookmarks..." section of the main window

* When clicking on "Yahoo!" in the "Bookmarks..." section of the main window

* When clicking on Tech Pulse Podcast (http://techpulsepodcast.blogspot.com) in the "History..." section of the main window

* When trying to click on the link to the iPhone ad in the middle of the front page of www.apple.com

Most of the time, entering an address manually (e.g. www.techpulsepodcast.com) does work.

*Yes, I think it's fair to say that the Opera team copied the iPhone interface, even though Opera Mini 4 beta was released before the iPhone. Apple demoed the iPhone browser interface in January, and I don't think it's any coincidence that the new version of Opera's smartphone browser just happened to be released shortly before the launch of the iPhone and just happened to steal the double-tap zoom feature from the iPhone demo. (Not to mention the fact that Opera released an iPhone bash commercial on their site along with the new beta.)

In fairness, it's still a beta, and I think Opera can ultimately create a really good competitor to the iPhone browser if they work harder on stamping out the painfully irritating bugs. I don't have any plans to buy an iPhone, and I think my Treo is great... but it sure would be nice to have a good Web browser on it.

I've talked a bit more about Opera Mini 4 beta vs. the iPhone on the Tech Pulse podcast.

Re:Opera anyone?

[juhaz]

That, and the lack of Symbian entirely, preferably tested with both Opera and the new Webkit based browser. I didn't exactly get the excuse either, why is it not in the "pony race"? E61i, E70 and E90 don't count, because ... ?

Unless, of course, they really aren't available in the US, but I'm not buying that...

Leader of the Pack

[Anonymous Coward]

"Even if it FAILS, it's technology, features, etc. will be copied into many other phones."

This is a very good point. Even though the above article was obviously written by an iPhone fanboi of the nth degree, you must admire Apple for creating such a media marketing blitz to drive technology. Tech companies want to emulate and then we only reap the benefits. I bought a Creative Zen instead of an iPhone, but I admire Apple for pushing the competition.

The cell phone offering is truly sad in North America. The same old phones with the same old features churned out with no real mashing of the technologies that we all want. How hard is it to truly create a phone with a camera, mp3 player, POP, and instant messenger? Not hard? Why then can you only usually find 1 out of the 30 phones through a cell provider have those *basic* features?

I don't like the iPhone. I've never liked the Apple interface. I'm not a big fan of touch screens. I don't find the need to browse via a cellphone, although eventually it might come in handy. I don't like the proprietary expensive monthly charge via AT&T. It's a moot point to even talk about iPhones as a Canadian anyway, Rogers - what a choice. With the price of an iPhone, you can buy a used laptop and wifi card with infinitely better performance, toss in skype for the hell of it.

But there's an upside .. I'm waiting for other companies which will make better hardware with better choices.. cheaper. I'll let the fanbois and hordes of non-thinking automatons that gobbled up the iPod have their equally as retarded iPhone. God bless innovation and competition.

Re:Leader of the Pack

[bjourne]

"Even if it FAILS, it's technology, features, etc. will be copied into many other phones." This is a very good point. Even though the above article was obviously written by an iPhone fanboi of the nth degree, you must admire Apple for creating such a media marketing blitz to drive technology. Tech companies want to emulate and then we only reap the benefits. I bought a Creative Zen instead of an iPhone, but I admire Apple for pushing the competition.

That is certainly the optimists view. What tech companies want is profit, and Apple certainly has generated quite a bit of that, so yes, other companies will definitely imitate Apple. But it is not technological innovation that is selling the iPhone, it is marketing. Apple spent hundreds of millions of dollars before the iPhone was launched trying to hype its phone and they are probably spending even more now when it is on the market.

That is the lession other mobile phone manufacturers will learn from Apple. Expect many more lame attempts to create "buzz" in the future. People, even technology enthusiasts, are sheep and it works. Paying Madonna, Brad Pitt or whatever the cool dudes are called these days millions to flash your phone is a much better investment than paying those millions to Q&A engineers. And that is what we're seeing with the iPhone. The software is of beta quality and updates are pushed through iTunes. Safari crashes frequently. Well I have a three year old Sony Ericsson K608i phone whose browser has never ever crashed and I have never had to install any stupid update.

Re:Leader of the Pack

[npsimons]

But it is not technological innovation that is selling the iPhone, it is marketing.

Thank you, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks it is all hype.

I've been saying this for a while: the iPhone is nothing new (short of a few slight UI improvements, if you want to view them that way). It's extremely overrated, and offers nothing over what other smartphones offer. It'll work as a web browser, PDA, phone (and now I hear you can load software on it), but it ain't the second coming, and frankly, most people don't see the need to spend $600 on hype when they may already have a perfectly workable smartphone. Apple fanboys: get over it. Apple products aren't perfect, they aren't "revolutionizing markets", and they aren't for everyone. If you believe any of that, you've drank the kool-aid, and I pity you for the sheep you are.

Re:Leader of the Pack

[rsborg]

The cell phone offering is truly sad in North America. The same old phones with the same old features churned out with no real mashing of the technologies that we all want. How hard is it to truly create a phone with a camera, mp3 player, POP, and instant messenger? Not hard? Why then can you only usually find 1 out of the 30 phones through a cell provider have those *basic* features?

Why are POP and a camera "basic" features? I never use my camera in my phone and in my last one (T610), I would inadvertently click the camera button during a call and it would crash the OS.

What you consider "basic" is "irrelevant" to others, and that's why you don't see them on all phones.

The part where I agree with you is that most phones that do offer some of these features either do them so poorly or make the UI/OS so unworkable that the features becomes drawbacks to the product (Motorola, I'm looking at you).

btw, while we're listing our "fav features"... here's mine (that most phones still don't get right):

• Clear crisp voice calls
• A good SMS client
• A good call history with no artificial limits on the storage (that reports incoming unlisted numbers as "unlisted" or "unknown", but with a call timestamp (yes some phones still fail this test)
• A good contact manager that allows me to enter at least the street address of the person calling in addition to a number
• A good synchronization system
• Bluetooth for earpieces and car integration

Notice I said nothing about cameras, mp3s or POP access. I prefer to use devices that do those functions well, and I would much rather have my phone do what IT does well (ie, some PDA features are a natural convergence). Do I expect all phones to have my features... NO!

Re:Leader of the Pack

[darrylo]

Apple fanboys: get over it. Apple products aren't perfect, they aren't "revolutionizing markets", and they aren't for everyone.

No argument there.

However, you're misunderstanding the target audience. You seem to think that the iPhone is targeted at people like you, who have or are interested in smartphones. The iPhone appears to be targeted at the cash-flush, "mass-market consumers", and not at tech geeks. There's a whole lot more money to be made by selling to mass-market consumers, and these people don't really care if the technology has been around before. Apple's produced an easy-to-use device, and, for what it does, it does it fairly well, and that's a big selling point with mass-market consumers.

Also, if Apple sells enough, many developers and websites will be optimizing for the iPhone, and not necessarily for smartphones. (Yes, web devs should be optimizing for both, but that doesn't always happen -- note the recent appearance of iPhone-optimized websites.)

Sheep? Maybe, maybe not. But Apple's laughing all the way to the bank.

Oh, and I'll just mention that any iPhone-wannabees will also have to compete with the iTunes store. Lots of mass-market consumers like to have an easy-to-use, "one-stop-shopping" experience, and any wannabe will have to face that hurdle. Now, I'm not saying that there won't be any competition to the iPhone. It's just that they'll have a difficult time grabbing a big share of the "iPhone marketplace".

"But I don't care about iTunes", some people will say. OK. Fine. good. Apple's probably not trying to sell you an iPhone, although they'd love it if you bought one. It's not about you -- it's about all of the many other mass-market consumers with $$$. Note that brains are irrelevant, here.

Opera mini

[edxwelch]

More interesting would be how it compares to Opera mini. It's quite an amazing program considering that it's written in java. It can handle nearly everything apart from flash. Also the opera server drastically reduces the amount of data sent saving you money - I don't think the iPhone does that.

Re:Opera mini

[Zelos]

IIRC, the iPhone is only available on plans with unlimited data, so data cost isn't an issue. Opera Mini is a great piece of software, it's generally a better browsing experience on EDGE/GPRS than a lot of high-end 3G smartphones.

Re:Opera mini

[edxwelch]

That's a good point.
Opera is one of the reasons why I think it's better to have third party applications on the phone. The blackberry browser isn't that good because it's written by Blackberry, who have no experience in writing browsers, while Opera do nothing else but develop browsers. Likewise Safari is good becuase it is based on Konqueror

iPhone vs N800

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, the iPhone is easily the best browser on a phone. But has anyone compared the browsing experience with a Nokia N800? I realize they're not direct competitors since the Nokia is not a phone, but I don't call much an my cell phone and I usually have Wifi access anyway. So I'm looking for a comparison of the internet-only functionality between these two. The N800 might edge out the iPhone here thanks to its higher resolution display, but it doesn't have the nifty zooming and panning functions. Has anyone here used both of these?

Six pages of commentary?

[lottameez]

My attention span doesn't last th

What about the nokia n800?

[espergreen]

Not strictly a phone, but the nokia n800 has the best portable web I have experienced. 800x480 resolution combined with Opera works great for everything, including AJAX applications such as gmail.

Re:What about the nokia n800?

[Paul Carver]

I just bought a Nokia 770, the previous generation of the n800 but with a much more reasonable price. It works ok on many sites, but struggles with Slashdot's commenting system. Collapsed comments don't open up when you click them. Any iPhone owners want to comment on how the iPhone handles a slashdot comments page with a couple hundred comments?

The Nokia 770's sceen resolution blows the iPhone away, but the screen is physically much smaller than I had thought it would be. It's actually almost identical in size to the screen on the Palm TX although much higher resolution.

Re:What about the nokia n800?

[thedbp]

about 90% of my slashdot browsing is now on my iPhone. Works like a charm every time.

Re:What about the nokia n800?

[theManInTheYellowHat]

I am very interested in OpenMoko and the Nokia Maemo Garage. Both the Nokia Internet Tablet and the OpenMoko are Arm based and perhaps the leap from one to the other would not be so great.

If the openmoko could run the apps that have been ported to Maemo it would be awesome.

I use my 770 for GPS primarily, but it is a pretty decent gizmo for quite a few different apps.

Re:What about the nokia n800?

[hairykrishna]

I bought one myself last week. You can't argue with ~£70 (~$140). It has the nicest screen i've seen on any portable, bar none. Works fine with slashdot for me... do you have the latest update for the OS?

Re:What about the nokia n800?

[internic]

I don't own one, but I was trying one out in the Apple store (out of curiousity only, it's too rich for my blood) and tried looking at Slashdot. As far as I could tell, it seemed to work just fine. I looked at some of the comments and then started to add a comment of my own. I struggled a bit with the typing interface, but most reports seem to indicated that with time it's a decent interface.

Re:What about the nokia n800?

[Nexcis]

What bluetooth gps adapter do you use?

Re:What about the nokia n800?

[electricalen]

Any iPhone owners want to comment on how the iPhone handles a slashdot comments page with a couple hundred comments?

I am away from home a lot and got the iPhone in part to keep up with Slashdot, CNN, etc. It's great if you keep in mind that it's not supposed to replace a laptop or desktop for browsing. The browsing experience in my opinion is far better than other smartphones I have used.

To answer your question about large Slashdot pages, it has some strange behavior when loading any large page. It brings up the page quickly, but then takes an unusually long time to finish loading the page, even on WI-FI. It does let you scroll and zoom while it's loading, but it's terrible. Sometimes it ignores your finger scrolling, and other times it thinks you clicked when you clearly scrolled. You sometimes have to try scrolling 2 or 3 times for it to respond. Double tapping is also not a good idea while it's loading, it mistakes it for a click a lot. If you wait for the page to finish, it works great.

I'm not an iPhone apologist, even though I own one, I know it's flaws and work around them. Before I bought one, I had no ties to Apple and didn't care about the company, only the phone usability. I can say that after spending some time at a Nokia store trying out the N95, N800, working with my Friends' Treo 755p and Blackberry (recent one), I was amazed at the iPhone when I went to the Apple store. I'm just giving my opinion, but I suggest people try one out with an open mind and see it for yourself.

I was disappointed to see that this article appears to be biased to the iPhone. From the very beginning of the article, it doesn't put all the phones on an equal level and just compare them. It puts the iPhone on a pedestal and hypes it up. I would like to see a good unbiased article that really compares the usability, clarity, features, and efficiency of browsing the web on the different phones.

Re:What about the nokia n800?

[voisine]

works flawlessly. Didn't even need to zoom, perfectly ledgible in landscape.

Posted from my iPhone.

Re:What about the nokia n800?

[denttford]

FWIW, i use a iblue 757 pro with the n800. Since the developer of maemomapper owns an iblue, it is very functional with the Nokias. Integrated solar power (or usb charging) makes it pretty handy. It also doubles as a 50,000 waypoint logger. It handles NYC pretty well, though sometimes I think my sirf 3 usb does better. NYC, however, is possibly the worst place in the world to use a gps receiver , so you will most likely have fine reception.

The "smart" phome choice would be this:

[MancunianMaskMan]

mobile phone £15 (that's ~30US$). I's prefer it without the colour screen though, for £10/20$

It's a phone, not a BMW

[schwit1]

The phones are starting to be over-engineered like BMW with its POS iDrive. If you need to surf, get a fracken laptop. The more crap they try to shoehorn into the PHONE the more they compromise telephony ease of use.

Re:It's a phone, not a BMW

[tiffany98121]

It's a CAR, not a JUKEBOX. The more crap they shoehorn into the CAR the more they compromise driving ease of use.

But Does It Run Linux?

[Doc Ruby]

The Palm smartphones were well on their way to getting Linux running all their HW, even before they started running a version of Windows. Is it done yet?

I haven't heard about Blackberry/Linux. And though I'd guess there's no iPhone/Linux yet, it seems inevitable.

Is there somewhere to look that shows which of these top smartphone HW platforms are most fully exploited by running Linux on them, so we can do whatever we want with our phones?

My thought EXACTLY

[scuba_steve_1]

Opera Mini 3 and beta 4 are very impressive browsers...and beta 4 shares many of the same features of Safari, including page zoom.

A HUGE advantage of PalmOS-based and Windows-based phones is that you can actually add software to them. Thus, such a comparison is meaningless. Don't like Blazer? Replace it with Opera. What are you doing on the iPhone? Sure Safari is great...but let's talk about the datebook application that takes half a dozen clicks to set the time of an appt (rather than me just clicking on the time band on a PalmOS unit)...or being forced to delete email messages one at a time (unlike a PalmOS unit...on which I frequently hit "select all" and then "delete" if I have read all the message already on my desktop). Even those advantages to palmOS are against the DEFAULT applications...and both applications can be replaced with countless other commercial, shareware, and freeware alternatives. Extrapolate to all of the other applications installed.

Yes, the Palm Blazer web browser is insanely lame...and most users will not replace it. I am not making excuses for Palm. They should have replaced this application with something more powerful years ago...and Apple is innovating...and I welcome our new overlords...if only to motivate the other slackers, but let's be fair. These love letters to the iPhone masking themselves as fair and unbiased reviews are getting tiring.

Here's my distilled version of the article...made objective...at least for the PalmOS:

- The iPhone browser rocks...and it is a good thing because you are locked into it. Oh yeah, connection speed is horrible unless you are using wifi. Not exactly a browser issue, but hard to ignore.

- Palm blazer is okay, but has problems with many sites and takes awhile to render pages.

- You can replace Blazer with Opera, but you'll have to find a JVM first, install it, and then twiddle settings forever to make it stable. Why the heck does Palm make Java apps second class citizens? Oh yeah, that is a business decision. Nevermind. Like most Palm users, I can't wait until "universe" gets out of beta...and, unlike the iPhone, I'll actually be able to install it.

Man, if Apple would just open up the iPhone and obviate the need for folks to reverse engineer every application, I would just shut my pie hole. The availability of one terminal application isn't cutting it for me. Guess I'll see what the future holds...and hopefully it's going to be a 3G future.

Re:My thought EXACTLY

[Paul Carver]

You make a good point, but my experience with Opera on Palm TX is that it just doesn't work. I tried everything. Followed lots of howtos on the Internet. Tweaked lots of settings. It does nothing but crash.

I can think of no company that is as utterly disappointing as Palm. I suppose there's probably some behind the scenes story of how someone pillaged the company in the manner of the 80's corporate raiders who bought companies for the purpose of stripping them down and selling the parts. I can think of no other explanation for how any company that had as brilliant a product as the Palm Personal/Professional, could so completely bungle every single step of the way.

Re:My thought EXACTLY

[dwater]

> A HUGE advantage of PalmOS-based and Windows-based phones is that you can actually add software to them. ...not forgetting Symbian OSes, including the most populous one, S60. "Open to new features" is it's tag line, but I suppose iPhone is too, though only when Apple feels like it (how long will that last, I wonder).

Seriously!

[TBone]

Damn, wish I had mod points.... Seriously, I don't "browse" the web on my phone. I look up sports scores, sometimes Google search for some particulr piece of information, and watch MLB.com's play-by when I'm not at home ot listen to the game on the radio. It's....a phone. With internet access. It's not a browser.

Re:Seriously!

[Flipao]

I have an HTC, with Opera loaded on it, I can browse pretty much everything out there on it... sure, it's not a desktop experience, but it's kind of nice being able to check /. on the train/bus/car whatever. Not to mention the fact that HSDPA is as close to desktop broadband as it gets (~2MB/s, 100ms pings). As nice as the iPhone looks, I'd rather have 3rd party software.

Palm comes in dead last

[ufpdom]

I think after the MR (Maintenance Release) by palm for both Sprint and Verizon the Treo 700P(alm) platformat comes in last. I say this because after this update not only does it fix little bugs but causes even bigger ones. The #1 issue now is the fact that the MR has destablizied the data connection. I personally received my replacement phone from Verizon on Friday with the MR already installed. The phone was solid for two days and now I cant even connect. Not intermittenly connect which is typical of the "Error 3000" we get after the update. But Zero connectivity at all. People are scrambling to get a phone with an older revision on them (1.06 Verizon, 1.08 Sprint). As one person puts it, having no data is a show stopper for me. Its insane as whats happened to palm. So Im curious who other Palm Treo 700p users on here that can confirm this. Heres a rant of mine that I posted last night because I've been sitting without zero data connectivity for two days now. http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=1 326400&postcount=94 So if this device cant connect to the internet its obvious that it can't even compete. I think Palm has the best viewing on a portable device since I have my work blackberry to compare it to. But what good is it if the phone cant even connect to the internet. Its not verizon's fault on this (totally). Its Palm's fault for not doing enough TESTING before this. I call the Treo 700p SPrint MR to the stand which literally bricked phones left and right. We rest our case your honor.

and it is also my primary Internet connection

[oliverthered]

sure your not the one trolling?

Screen size is the problem for me

[Anonymous Coward]

For me, I don't think any handheld device will ever be suitable for browsing the web, put simply hand-held device screens are always going to be too small, one of the biggest annoyances I have with handheld devices when browsing the web is the fact you have to scroll the screen at all and the only way to really solve this is to use unreadably small fonts, or increase screen size and of course, if you increase screen size it no longer remains a handheld. Even PDA screens are too small for web browsing for my liking.

I don't doubt the iPhones UI is intuitive and clever but I think for this reason internet on mobile phones is largely doomed to be unable to get wide adoption by the average person simply because you make users scroll a whole lot (you can't design around this well, you either have short sentences and long paragraphs requiring vertical scrolling or long sentences requiring horizontal scrolling and short paragraphs) or alternatively, you find a new way to display or even perhaps dictate the web, something I don't see any easy solution to.

Direction of Connection

[SuperKendall]

How connected do we have to be? I would say, not very as I hate other things in the outside world arbitrarily connecting to ME.

However - the thing I find useful about devices like the iPhone is being able to arbitrarily connect to the outside world at a time of my choosing. I love to be able to review maps, or do quick lookups, or glance at email (again when I want - I have even disabled automatic updates of email as I don't like the hourly chime that I have new mail). That is what connectivity was supposed to be all about, a tool to augment our abilities - not a source of arbitrary bother.

However, instead of making better and better phones, the trend is to cram more crap into the phones

A trend which the iPhone breaks by giving you functions that are completely separate, and can have interfaces that make sense thanks to an all virtual UI. What we all hate about convergence is usually how poor either presentation or input is for any one of the myriad functions, which a virtual interface nicely sidesteps. Even the keyboard corrects problems with interface, when you are entering a number in a phone field for a contact the number keyboard is primary, and when entering a URL space is replaced by "/" and ".com" since you're probably going to need those more.

Even the revolutionary approach of the iPhone is rife with limitations. The battery life makes it almost prohibitive to venture off the "use it as a phone", i.e., if you want to use it for music and video, you'd better forget about a full day's worth of phone service -- the battery isn't going to let you do that.

Actually that's plain wrong. Music uses almost no power at all, and even video can go for quite some time - you can easily watch a few hours of video and have power enough left for the rest of the day as a phone. If here you are really thinking "plane flight" (for who really watches hours of video in a normal day on a small device?) then you can use one of the myriad iPad external battyer packs that keep the iPhone topped off while you watch video or listen to music.

Also, while the buttonless interface is cool, the screen is nice, it's still tiny compared to necessary space to really surf in a browser. Even with its cool expansion feature, it sucks.

What you got wrong here is that you do not realize now much better a tiny screen can be if you increase the resolution. A full web page is readable sideways (I can read any text on the Slashdot homepage without zooming in with teh phone sideways, and can read all the article and story text with it upright). Also with teh ease of navigating around a page and quickly zooming it's just about as easy as reading a full screen - I have found myself simply browsing on the iPhone a lot without bothering to go get my laptop, when I just want to browse for a while.

1280x1024 on a 15" monitor?

[smurfsurf]

Most webpages are designed to be shown in 1280x1024? And these fit on a 15" monitor?

Yeah right. What wonderland is he living in?

Re:1280x1024 on a 15" monitor?

[Maserati]

Laptop screens run at about that resolution these days. A MacBook Pro (15.4") runs at 1440x900, A ThinkPad T-series with 15.4" display runs at 1680x1050.

Had to download a PDF to get the detailed specs from Lenovo's website.

Re:1280x1024 on a 15" monitor?

[drew]

I used to run 1600x1200 on a 15" MAG, so it's definitely possible, although I must have been far more tolerant of low refresh rates back then. I've also had a Dell Inspiron with a 1600x1200 15-point-something screen. It was actually very surprising to me that I couldn't find a full 1600x1200 LCD smaller than 20" when I started looking to replace my aging CRT at home.

Mobile communications and PDAs

[mritunjai]

Looking at comments about PDAs and their functionality (or the lack of it), I'd like to share my experience too.

I'm a software engineer and need to be connected most of the times. Recently, I was in a situation where I had to be in hospital for around a month to attend to my father, and let me tell you, the laptops don't really last much without a power outlet and Wifi isn't ubiquitous. Its anoter thing in normal life to drive to starbucks and check news and mail while sipping coffee, and its another thing to attend to client calls and mails while sitting at place you don't want yourself and your family to be in! The irony is, it is these places that you'd need the connectivity the most! You can drive to another coffee shop, if the connectivity sucks, you can't go around shifting to other hospitals for the same reasons!

I have a Sony Ericsson W800i NON-smartphone. The phone only supports basic GPRS (think 48kbps, yep thats bits), and I'm glad that I'd found the combination that served me well for all my business needs and enabled me to attend the family at the same time.

1. Get Gmail mobile app: Its a Java MIDP application, and it just bulldozes all email clients out there. Nothing like to be able to access all your mails even if you have low speed connecivity.

2. Get Opera Mini: This (Java MIDP) application lets you use even secured sites. Can't tell you how many times it saved my ass. Being able to watch Youtube in free time is one thing, being able to access online banking site when you most need it is another!

3. Inbuilt IMAP/POP email client with SSL: You want instant email, its there. The client doesn't suck that much and it gets the job (notifying you of mail) done pretty well. You can use it to have always on access to your corporate account.

In short, Java on mobiles absolutely rocks and serves pretty well. iPhone has that one down for me (and the reason I'd stay away from it). Get the basic "life-saver" apps first and setup well, and *only* then look for frills like flash, 3G (basic GPRS is ubiquitous, never found a place where it doesn't work!) and touch screens.

Oh, and choose your phone well. If your phone has tendency to lock-up thrice a day, or your browser crashes randomly, you might find it very disappointing on the rainy day!

- Akhilesh

Re:Mobile communications and PDAs

[SuperKendall]

But all the things you mentioned - the iPhone does already. Mail.app hooks easily to GMail or you can just use the web interface, and it supports SSL for bank use.

I am a big fan of Java and third party apps as well, but the iPhone includes enough functionality I do not need them.

Oh, and choose your phone well. If your phone has tendency to lock-up thrice a day, or your browser crashes randomly, you might find it very disappointing on the rainy day!

Which is, again, why the iPhone is so nice - because instead of the phone locking up, at times an app (like the browser) might crash but you simply start using it again. Almost no time is lost since the device itself is still up.

Re:Mobile communications and PDAs

[prockcore]

Mail.app hooks easily to GMail or you can just use the web interface, and it supports SSL for bank use.

GMails pop interface is useless. It ignores your filters, and for some reason it pops sent mail as new incoming mail.

The web interface can't interface with your phone. Like having the option of calling someone who just sent you an email.

That's why people use the gmail java app.. it's gmail designed specifically for phones.

Re:Mobile communications and PDAs

[SuperKendall]

The web interface can't interface with your phone. Like having the option of calling someone who just sent you an email.

If they are a contact with a phone number, the iPhone can dial them directly from the contact page (or any page that displays the phone number). It recognizes phone numbers and allwso you to click to dial (confirming you really want to place a call first, of course)

That's why people use the gmail java app.. it's gmail designed specifically for phones.

The web browser is also specifically designed for the phone. The need for a lot of separate specifically designed apps can be replaced by a few really well thought out ones. This is exactly why complaints of lack of third party software at the outset are so misguided.

Re:Mobile communications and PDAs

[pclminion]

Recently, I was in a situation where I had to be in hospital for around a month to attend to my father, and let me tell you, the laptops don't really last much without a power outlet and Wifi isn't ubiquitous. Its anoter thing in normal life to drive to starbucks and check news and mail while sipping coffee, and its another thing to attend to client calls and mails while sitting at place you don't want yourself and your family to be in!

Then DON'T. Don't take the calls. Don't make the emails. Can't you put your damn job on hold long enough to properly attend to an ailing family member?

Having a laptop around to help alleviate the boredom and stress is one thing. Shooting off work emails and tappity-tapping away for clients while a family member lies ill or dying? Totally sick. Just my opinion though.

Re:Mobile communications and PDAs

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you need to correct you reading comprehension. He was in the hospital for a month. ONE MONTH. No, most of us cannot put aside our professional lives for a month straight. And he DID make the proper sacrifice by staying in the hospital for the whole damned MONTH in order to make sure he was there whenever needed.

We're not talking about hanging out for a couple days or even a week, which is something that most of us can handle without too much effort. Taking off a full 30 days from work to stay by someone's bedside Just In Case Something Bad Happens That Day isn't an excuse to just sit around vegging by someone's bedside. Does he absolutely have to wokr? No, but neither does he have to sit by the bedside doing nothing else.

You might as well yell at people in the emergency ward for daring to read a magazine or a book while they're waiting for status on a loved one. How dare they occupy their mind while they wait!

Re:Mobile communications and PDAs

[pclminion]

You might as well yell at people in the emergency ward for daring to read a magazine or a book while they're waiting for status on a loved one. How dare they occupy their mind while they wait!

I didn't say you shouldn't do things to occupy yourself. But proceeding about business as usual seems rather cold. And I wasn't "yelling" at anybody.

Not sure how fare this comparison is...

[skintigh2]

They ravage the Treo for it's craptacular "Blazer" browser, and they should. It is useless and worthless, it hides menus (forcing me to email my login and pw to my brother so he could enable POP on gmail for me so I could use the POP client on my phone) and wont let me press buttons like "submit" or "reply" in myspace.

But once you install JVM and Opera, everything changes.

Sure, I can't really expect them to hack each phone before reviewing it, and I guess I should blame Palm for not including a real browser, but this wouldn't be /. if I didn't complain.

And as for the guy complaining about all-in-one devices: try traveling some time and then tell me you want 5 separate devices (plus chargers and sync cables and cradles) instead of one. I just got back from Vegas where AT&T decided my Treo 680 did not have a voice or text plan, yet my web access kept working, so I for one was quite happy to have a web device. I also enjoyed taking pictures of some guy in a ghostbusters outfit with my phone without bringing my large SLR with me.

Re:Not sure how fare this comparison is...

[svallarian]

But once you install JVM and Opera, everything changes.

What do you mean? After I installed Opera, all I get is a bunch of halfway rendered, mostly unusable pages.

Slashdot works fine, but don't try to login to ebay or any other javascript heavy site. Not to mention the browser is slow as molasses. You know it's struggling when
crap blazer runs faster.

Nokia e61i

[JosefAssad]

I'm not sure why the Nokia e61i was left out. I've never been a big cell phone freak; I moved up to an e61i after some twelve years of el cheapo nokias. QWERTY, excellent battery life, briliant screen (even in direct sunlight), wifi, superb call quality, superb speakerphone, the web browsing is a dream (has this handy zoom out feature, and when you scroll for a long time it zooms out also; totally usable). Dammit, it even has a 2 mp camera, blackberry software (though I don't use bb) and... here's the cracker, PYTHON! Doesn't get much more smart phone than that.

Re:Nokia e61i

[simong]

Seconded, it's the best phone I've had, and I've been through assorted smartphones and PDA/phone combinations in the last few years. The built in browser is fine, Opera is better. There's a strong developer community around Symbian S60 and within Nokia with such apps as streaming radio and podcasts. On a good data tariff it makes a pretty good 3G modem too.

Not a phone

[SuperKendall]

I realize they're not direct competitors since the Nokia is not a phone

You just said it all right there. Being a Phone and a PDA is key to what makes the iPhone appealing, the whole class of devices like the N800 are a niche that just cannot be as large as smartphones because it means you have to have at least two devices on you.

Also, for me, the N800 is just way to large a thing to carry around all the time. Devices like that have never appealed to me because in the end I'd rather have a laptop.

Re:Not a phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Bigger point here when comparing something like N800 to iPhone is that Nokia has a totally different approach in this game. The idea of the N800 is that you use it as an internet device, to surf web pages, etc; that's the point, that's why it's large enough and has enough features and capabilities to actually do those things well. You don't use it as a cell phone, because quite frankly, getting a full resolution full featured web experience on a device small enough to carry around as a cell phone all the time just doesn't work. iPhone is nice and all, but the point still stands: if you want to connect and surf real web pages without having to scroll like a maniac and actually do the things that we're all accustomed to doing on desktop machines, it just doesn't work, the form factor is too small, the screen resolution is too low, and quite frankly unless sites are built specifically with it in mind it just doesn't work. If I'm going to check information on a web page, I want to be able to actually see the web page just as if I was seeing it on my desktop machine... otherwise what's the point?
The Nokia approach to this is have a good old fashioned regular tiny cell phone to use as your phone, talk on, do some mp3s, anything that a device that size can do. When you want to do something more web/interactive then you grab your N800 (or heck even the 770, come on, 100 bucks for the same features and AMAZING screen resolution with only slightly lower CPU) and bluetooth it up to your handy dandy pocket cell. And of course, because it's all Open Source, there's no limitations: ssh, Opera AND Mozilla, a plethora of various other utilities and apps that expand every day... all that you can actually use without having to squint for beg Apple to one day produce... oh, and Flash... did I mention Flash?...
So no, the two are not directly comparable because they follow different paradigms: Apple is going for thier "Spend a large amount of money to get proprietary Apple that will do everything (that we let you)", while Nokia is going for "Cell phones as small, compact phones (surprise surprise), and additional devices such as the N800 to provide you with additional features in a form that makes sense for those applications".

PPI

[SuperKendall]

...One of the biggest annoyances I have with handheld devices when browsing the web is the fact you have to scroll the screen at all and the only way to really solve this is to use unreadably small fonts, or increase screen size and of course, if you increase screen size it no longer remains a handheld.

There is another way to solve this, by increasing pixel density so a small screen present readable text even at very small sizes. I can read the article and summary text on Slashdot easily without zooming in. Yes you have to scroll down, but then you do in a real browser too and scrolling by touch is so quick it does not feel like the burden it does in a normal browser.

Pocket Space

[brunes69]

Because real people like me who don't wear jackets don't want to have to have TWO things on their belt. One is bad enough.

Re:Pocket Space

[peterhoeg]

Interesting you should mention it and we are now side-tracking, but where I come from (Denmark) it is generally considered fashion faux pas to carry your gizmos around in a small belt pouch whereas where I'm currently residing (Tanzania) it's a fashion statement and a way to show you're really hip. With all due respect to Tanzanians they also find digital watches really neat but Douglas Adams has already covered that topic extensively and there is thus no reason to go down that route.

Re:Pocket Space

[brunes69]

Well if you don't have a jacket then I simply don't know where else you can expect someone to put things aside from on their belt. You can't carry a cell phone, I don't care how thin, in your front pants pocket because thats where you carry your change and keys and it'll get scratched to hell. Similarly in your back pocket you can't sit down.

Unless you are a woman who carries a purse that's pretty much your only options currently, unless you have some kind of arm strap thing.

Re:Pocket Space

[jubei]

Put your change and your keys in one pocket and your cell phone in the other.

MS and Apple Collaboration

[Bastardchyld]

Have you applied the iPhone 1.0.1 update yet? Its made Safari a LOT more stable for me. Takes about a week for it to crash for me now. When it starts getting crashy by the way just power down and then turn on the phone again. So you are saying that you get all the benefits of a BSOD without the need for that silly blue screen or the Windows OS? That is totally awesome... Wow there goes Steve Jobs innovating again...

Besides everyone should have to reboot their telephone once a week.

Re:MS and Apple Collaboration

[MushMouth]

When Safari crashed it would simply close, the rest of the phone worked fine. Rebooting (Power+Home) the device did fix this. My guess is that there was some other leaking memory. Since the update, I haven't had one Safari crash.

Symbian S60?

[Anonymous Coward]

Although they mention Symbian, they act like no one has ever owned one of these things. Its really not THAT bad. Give it a shot. The main thing I like about S60 devices is that they have different form factors of running the same OS. Want a candy bar without qwerty? Done. Want a blackberry looking device so you don't feel left out? Done. Options, options, options.

There are plenty of apps floating around to do what you want as well.

The one thing I *hate* about the iPhone...

[sootman]

... is the way that, if you look at a plain-vanilla HTML page--one without a single table or div anywhere, like this ebook of The Invisible Man--it INSISTS on showing you a shrunken version that you've got to zoom in and scroll around to read, or turn the iPhone sideways. Why, when faced with such a page, can't it just present you a 100% view at 320px wide? Looking at plain pages like that (and yes, there are plenty, especially ones that I use for work--I've put lots of documentation online in the plainest possible format for the widest possible compatability) is one thing that works better on my Axim. That, and the fact that when you're doing lots and lots of reading, it is nice to just press a hardware button and scroll down exactly one page, rather than doing a finger-flick scroll.

Hmm... maybe Apple will release Boot Camp for the iPhone and let us dual-boot with Windows Mobile? :-) If not, it would be a cool hack to use the volume up/down buttons as page up/page down if no audio is playing.

Re:The one thing I *hate* about the iPhone...

[tmarthal]

... is the way that, if you look at a plain-vanilla HTML page it INSISTS on showing you a shrunken version that you've got to zoom in and scroll around to read

So you hate that it follows standards? Unless the viewport is specifically stated, then it doesn't know how to render the page. When it starts to assume things about the page and how to render it, is when non-compliant issues start to arise.

A simple <meta name="viewport" content="width=320" /> in the html header will fix that issue. It needs to be done on the server side though, so sites that could care less about it (like that one you linked) are sure to not display correctly.

Re:The one thing I *hate* about the iPhone...

[sootman]

This has nothing to do with following standards.

Unless the viewport is specifically stated, then it doesn't know how to render the page. When it starts to assume things about the page and how to render it, is when non-compliant issues start to arise.

Huh??? All it needs to do is render the page as if it were being displayed in a 320px-wide window--which, in fact, it is. What's non-standard about that? Any browser on any PDA will do exactly that. Do we use 'viewport' to specify that text should wrap naturally on 640, 800, 1024, 1280, 1400, 1600, 1680, 1920, and 2560 pixel screens?

All I want is the exact same default behavior that the iPhone already uses when you're looking at an unstyled site in landscape mode.

Sprint PPC-6700

[RockClimbingFool]

The Sprint PPC-6700 has been a godsend for me.

It has an extremely active community that has constantly back ported new windows mobile features into customized roms to flash your phone with. Goto the HTC Apache forum at ppc-geeks, http://www.ppcgeeks.com/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=6eba 1082d61ffec1693259b6d3560f0c

Load up windows live search and get localized search results for restaurants, stores, anything. Add in a Blue-Tooth GPS receiver and get search results by distance from your present location.

The other great thing about this phone is free tethering. While that may be slightly outside of you agreement with sprint, they have been turning a blind eye to it for a very long time. Add in the fact Sprint has the cheapest and highest speed data plans out there and you never need to goto a coffee shop for internet access, for either your phone or your laptop.

Third party applications on the PPC platform have surpassed palm.

With the help of community efforts, the ability to not only load third party software, but create customized roms to squeeze out every bit of performance, the PPC-6700 is still one of the best pda phones out there. And its over 2 years old now.

Re:Sprint PPC-6700

[AragornSonOfArathorn]

I managed to snag one of these a few weeks ago when Sprint dropped the price to $100 after rebate. Only one store in my area had any left, and I got the last one. :) My Treo 650 was starting to show its age, so got the PPC-6700. So far, quite happy. It doesn't feel as solid as the Treo, but the keyboard is much more usable. I discovered the community and installed a custom ROM and everything works great. One of these days, I'll get a bluetooth GPS receiver.

I'm no Microsoft fan, but PocketPC/Windows Mobile is okay, and Live Search is great. I've had several Handheld/Pocket PCs in the past, and I guess they've got most of the kinks worked out.

I'll second the tethering comment. The PPC-6700 is one of the last EVDO phones that you can use to get around having to pay for Sprint's "phone as modem" plan add-on. All the high-speed-data phones made since have 2 ESNs, one for phone, one for data, and it switches over to the data ESN when in tethered mode and if you don't have that modem plan, it won't work. The 6700 only has one ESN and Sprint can't tell if you're surfing on the phone or tethering. Works great for my laptop and Nokia N800 :)

Re:Sprint PPC-6700

[Danzigism]

Absolutely.. I personally use the XV-6700 with Verizon.. It's the same phone as I'm sure you're aware of.. But man I love it and it also is a godsend for me as well.. I use it on a daily basis to sync up with my Exchange Server at work to get my appointments for the day, to keep synced up with my contacts and emails too.. it's crucial to be able to sync to the exchange server because my appointments are changing all the time during the day.. and the new Google Maps for PPC? HELL YES! So nice to have that ability as well.. I installed a great little media player too called TCPMP which plays practically any type of Media including DiVX.. Highly recommend for those PPC users looking for a good media player.. I enjoy watching old episodes of Six Feet Under on my PPC while driving to work hehe.. a damn great phone, with WiFi capabilities, twice as many features as the iPhone, and nearly 1/2 the price..

Sidekick?

[loftling]

Once again, the sidekick is ignored. Why? Because the ads feature Paris Hilton? The sidekick kicks ass- the web browser is great, IM, email...

Re:Sidekick?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seconded. Its very basic, but it generally does not screw up. The quickness of switching between apps is unbelievable. It also has a pile of shortcuts for power users that make it blazing fast.

Thanks for testing out the crappy ones

[Com2Kid]

Heaven forbid anyone ever compare Apple's $500 wonder to a like-priced device from another manufacturer. Why does everyone coo over the cruddy screen, when I can get 640x480 and 800x480 screens on other smart phones?

T-Mobile Ameo, 640x480 screen and real 3G broadband speeds.

Or wait awhile and pick up a phone in the I-Mate Ultra line. They all look sexy, and they all have a screen that blows the iPhone out of the water. And of course they all support real 3G speeds as well.

Or heck, just never get lost again.

All those prices by the way? Unlocked phones. If you are going to sign up for a contract, why pay $500 for a phone, when you can get a high quality (albeit not top of the line) Windows Mobile phone for under $100.

Hell, don't like Windows Mobile? Go with Symbian. They have some high-res devices that are a lot cheaper than $500.

For $500 you could almost BUILD your own cell phone and get something far more capable then what Apple is dishing out. Does anybody know of an after market supplier of GSM or CDMA chips? :-D

More interesting is what they DIDN'T compare

[Tyr_7BE]

Load up a page on a Blackberry, it comes up in 15 seconds. Load that same page up on an iPhone, and you're waiting a good 2 minutes. Yes you get the web as it's presented on a Desktop, but in order to do that you have to download the entire web page. This is a serious problem when all I want to do is take a quick look at a webpage for updates, or get some information that I need right then and there.

use of the browser

[kisrael]

So I have one of these. One of the strongest uses I've had of its browser was this weekend, helping a buddy out w/ house refurbishing out in the sticks, actually his parents house. No wifi there, but I could touch base with the online world at night... yes I could have lived without it, but it was nice to have.

Some one help out parent?

[John Jamieson]

Right now you are (Score:0, troll) because you seem to have not noticed that you CANNOT find any fault with Steve or an Apple product without being modded to "karma hell". There are a fair number of mod points sitting out there just to trash uninformed posters like yourself.

Soon we will have run all those pesky freeBSD, windows and GNU/Linux fans out of here and we can rename the site MacDot! Yeeha

Shootout?

[thewils]

Hold on, you can shoot with these things? Or is that for the US market only?

a bunch of crap...

[ItsLenny]

I've got a Treo 650 (not even the newest treo.. pre windows)

In the conclusion they say "Web browsing on the iPhone is a paradigm shift, a completely different experience" ...
The reasons they give:

-Full REAL web page loading
-Touch Screen interactivity with web page content

both things that are fully functional on my phone which came out like 3 years ago (November 2004).

let me also add that internet connection speed is not really ready for full web pages on cellphones (or atleast my network isn't). However the genius' at google still recognize my phone as a phone instead of a computer (unlike any other site I've visited) and have a feature that chops up web pages into multiple pages of a quickly loadable size.

Wtf???

[prxp]

From TFA:

"The iPhone browser interface is a success not because it's intuitive, but because the interface is discoverable at a level almost below conscious thought." WTF???? Last time I've checked "discoverable at a level almost below conscious thought" is the very definition of intuitive.

Yet another 'shootout' without Nokia/SE..

[Rexdude]

Call me when the iPhone can do the following-

• allow you to use any song from your collection as a ringtone.
• allow you to share content-be it tones, music, pictures or video-over wifi/bluetooth with other devices/smartphone users.
• Let you simply use that entire 8 GB storage as a portable drive and copy whatever stuff u want onto it.(can it?)
• allow you to use any operator you like without having to be shackled to AT&T
• allow you to use any 3rd party application WITHOUT having to hack the firmware or do anything out of the ordinary.

Nokia and Sony-Ericsson devices let you do all that. It's just the simple philosophy at the heart of each one. Nokia/SE believe in letting the user be in complete control over their mobile phone, and to personalize it the way they want. You want to use it as a business phone? It can sync with Outlook/Notes. Music? Photography?Video? All these are supported, with no restrictions. 3rd party apps? The manufacturers realize that they cannot possibly cover every possible usage scenario, or think of everything a user might want. Hence an SDK for companies to create new apps and games. For example,check out miniGPS, which simulates GPS by detecting where you are within the GSM network and alerting you with reminders, or switching profiles (imagine phone automatically going to silent mode when you reach your office and reverting when you leave it). How about a bluetooth presentation director, so you can control a powerpoint presentation with your phone? It can be done.
Or, check out Advanced Call Manager, that provides sophisticated control over who can contact you and when, and what recorded message to play for them. Or take Agile Messenger, that lets you chat on AIM,Yahoo,MSN,Google,ICQ and Jabber. There are several such companies offering hundreds of applications for smartphones and there's no limit to what you can find for your phone. Oh, and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to use these applications, many average joes use them!
I agree that not everyone might want all these applications. But doesn't the same argument hold for your PC as well? You can customize a PC any way you want in terms of hardware, operating system, or other software. It's upto you- what you want and how much you're willing to pay for it.
It's about CHOICE. Putting choice in the hand of the consumer, based on the assumption that the consumer knows best what they want out of their phone. As opposed to something that's pretty to look at but strictly locked down, based on what Steve Jobs thinks you should be allowed to use, besides extorting money every step of the way.
Since this was about browsers-Check out the S60 browser as well as the response to the Reality Distortion Field regarding the iPhone's browser!! Finally, as an aside, what's up with depending on the operator to provide handsets? No wonder you get armtwisted into paying for ringtones and phones with crippled features. Or do you also buy your cars from the highway department? Nokia sells over the counter handsets, so all you need is a GSM SIM card. At least you'll get a fully featured phone that doesn't have features disabled!

They're not called a "Crackberry" for nothing....

[HeavyDevelopment]

Yes there are people that need, or at want, to be connected all the time. Whether its for business or pleasure, there are some people that have the need to be communicating or consuming information in some shape or form all the time. If it wasn't a cellular device it would be something else. And, yes, for some people it is an addiction. But hey, there are worse things to be addicted to

While your post is technically about the limitations of cellular devices, it really smacks of moral judgment. You may not think that people need to be connected, but that doesn't mean that I or anyone else shares that opinion. It's free for you to have that opinion, as it it for me to have mine. And the best way for you to voice that opinion is to NOT buy an iPhone.

For me personally, I purchased an iPhone about a week after the initial release and some of the hype died down. It is--BY FAR--the best gadget that I've owned (and I've owned a few). It is also the best 1st version of technology that I've purchased. The UI is brilliant. I have never had a device so well interconnected. As some have said, other phones can do similar things, but its a PIA to make it happen and none of the applications play nice together.

As for the web browser on the iPhone, I don't use it too surf the web, but I have used it in a pinch to look up information such as "what movie was that actor in" or "how many home runs does he have"....in other words for all the times that I had wished that I had access to the web. For the most part, it works great for this purpose. The battery is good for about a day of "normal" multi-tasking (email, ipod, maps, etc). But considering how thin and compact it is that's pretty amazing.

All I can say is that, for me personally, I could never go back to a regular cellphone. It would be like trading an iPod in for a Walkman.

Have you used an Ameo???

[SuperKendall]

Holy mackerel, you're not comparing a device that is 3.8 x 5.25 x .5 INCHES to the iPhone, are you?

I got a chance to use one those suckers in a focus group. Yes the resolution is high, but it's larger than a paperback! If I am going to have something that large, why not just carry a small laptop with a 3G card? The form factor made no sense, and the way the whole UMPC idea has died on the vine means not many other people see the sense in it either.

Also, the one I used was terribly choppy in terms of responsiveness. Possibly the most frustrating "computer" I have ever used.

Hype?

[SuperKendall]

I think it's pretty funny that you call providing simple video of the iPhone simply doing what it does, hype. For that's what almost all the marketing was, from the commercials to the lengthy introductory video they posted that shows most of the iPhone applications in operation, along with some technical content that showed a little of how Multitouch worked.

Is hype totally based in fact hype? Or is it simply information presented?

What sold the iPhone at launch was not hype but TRUST. Because people enjoyed the iPod previously, they TRUSTED that the information in the videos was accurate - which it was.

Depends on page and connection...

[SuperKendall]

On WiFi, I get that page in five seconds. And there are many pages I can start using within 30 seconds, even on EDGE... It's really only higher bandwidth stuff that is much of a problem on EDGE.

As the article says, I'd rather have a better browser with a somewhat slower connection, but the ability to do WiFi means a lot of the time I don't even have that limitation.

Can we please stop calling these "Smart phones?"

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate the term. So the phone has more features than some other phones. It's not a wizard's staff, people, it's a piece of technology.

My computer is capable of doing lots of cool things too. Yet I do not call it a "Smart typewriter."

Double the fun

[SuperKendall]

Nice double standard you got going there.

It's only a double standard if the two things are different.

How has my observation that the use of CSS and DHMTL been growing faster than flash inaccurate? By any measure this is correct. You cannot seriously say that more sites today use Flash than CSS, or that more new sites coming online use Flash than CSS.

I can't help if I actually get my facts straight, which you appear to have failed at a second time.

Re:Double the fun

[Namarrgon]

I can't help if I actually get my facts straight

What, like the "I can touch the keyboard" line? You need to try harder.

Re:Double the fun

[untaken_name]

You derieded a guy for posting his opinion about Safari, but then offer "I've not missed Flash" as a reason to dismiss the concern that the iPhone can't handle Flash. Does the fact that you have not personally missed Flash mean that the iPhone is not lacking Flash support? No. You are trying to use your opinion as evidence that a feature isn't critical. Yet you flamed someone for using his opinion as evidence in the same post. Then you offer an impossible task: listing all the sites on the web and those that come online and whether they use only Flash or only CSS... Here are some problems with that: How do you know how many sites use Flash vs CSS? How do you know when a new site appears on the Web? How would you quantify Flash-only sites vs CSS-only vs sites that use both? Would you use a ranking system? How would it be technically possible to fulfill your request? It's pretty easy to ask an unanswerable question and then say, "Well, you didn't answer my question so I win." However, it isn't logical, and it makes you look foolish.

Re:Double the fun

[Achromatic1978]

How has my observation that the use of CSS and DHMTL been growing faster than flash inaccurate?

Who said I said that? I didn't say that.

The one area Flash has taken off is in embedded video.

This = your opinion. Not fact. Not even remotely.

I can't help if I actually get my facts straight, which you appear to have failed at a second time.

You couldn't even get your facts straight on this point. "Second time"? Show me my first time. That was the first comment I made to you.

The three don't come close

[Junky191]

Yeah there no way Palm, HTC, or the Apple Phone come anywhere close to Blackberry. Funny how I've still yet to meet a BB owner who has bought an Apple Phone.

Exchange?

Iphone vs N95

[papasui]

I had a chance to compare my iPhone against the N95 with a Swede from MySQL AB today. We both agreed the Iphone was vastly superior in web browsing. In fact he was ready to dump his N95 for the iphone except he still lives in Sweden.

They picked the wrong HTC Product

[Ritz_Just_Ritz]

If the point of this article was to compare smartphones that offer similar functionality to the iPhone, the more obvious HTC product would have been the "Touch". It's got a fantastic interface, Windows Mobile 6 Professional, a user replaceable battery, multimedia features and light weight. And you're not stuck with ATT/Cingular as a service provider.

http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_htctouch.htm

Best,

Driving while browsing!

[MacDork]

Well I really need to be that connected and I chose my phone with that in mind. If a lot of other people agree with me, they'll make a similar choice. If no one felt they needed this, these platforms would die out, wouldn't they? But that's not really happening, is it?

Yeah, but it was bad enough when you were behind the prick talking on his phone while driving, now web browsing?! There may be some dying out involved after all!

Of course, I'm kidding, but think about trying to answer the iPhone behind the wheel when it has no physical buttons... You're going to have to look. Worse, try making an important call. Oh go ahead and try to flick/scroll your address book one handed while focusing on the list rather than the road... Are iPhone users really going to give up phone usage in the car? And if I or someone I love gets hit and dies by one of them, is Apple liable for releasing such an obviously dangerous phone?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Sorry Gramps...

[Neuticle]

Maddox covered this recently:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ip hone

Seems pretty persuasive...

Couldn't find the article, just an iPhone ad.

[El-Wrongo]

Doesn't matter tough, I am getting myself the openmoko Neo1973 as soon as it hits the shelf.

I got a grand plan to install emacs on it.