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RIAA Campaign Against Students Hits Stormier Seas
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "It's been astutely observed that the RIAA's "ex parte" campaign against "John Doe" college students seems to have run into much stormier waters than its campaign against regular folks. Discovery motions were thrown out by the judges in cases involving the University of New Mexico and the College of William and Mary, and motions to quash have been made by students at Boston University, Oklahoma State University, and the University of South Florida. The RIAA might find it particularly troubling that the students are coming in armed with substantial expert witness declarations attacking the entire underpinning of the RIAA's case, that the students are finding each other and banding together, and that the Chairman of Boston University's Computer Science Department went to bat — as an expert witness — for the BU students."
Can't beat that for practical life experience.
12:50 - press return.
Few people have the time that students do, or the drive, toward activism of many types. They're such a powerful demographic that presidential candidates solicit them. Attacking them aggressively is risky but if the RIAA wins this one, everyone else is going to be gravy.
technical writing / development
The RIAA has to grow up and realize that DRM free music is a great marketing tool!
"...In addition, Shutovsky is directed to provide the names and addresses of all people who have used his PC in the three years prior to his being sued. According to his response to the RIAA's requests, those who may have used the computer include his wife, an unspecified list of "short-term house guests," and eight other people who live in Russia, Ukraine, or the UK. The RIAA says that it would like to contact the Shutovsky's houseguests to see if it would be "reasonable" to take depositions..."
And so continues the witch-hunt for dear ol' 162.83.177.207.
I hope the new generation of musicians refuse to sign record labels with major companies. Considering how powerful a home studio can now be, it's a whole lot more feasible than it was 30 years ago..
The problem with the RIAA is that it has very questionable practices in regards to its sending subpeona's and when it sues people not that piracy is right.
The problem is that it believes itself to be a police force with powers to investigate and aprehend criminals. It does not.
However that does not mean that piracy is ok. It only means that evil corporations are evil. While you may argue that information wants to be free and copyrights are badly flawed that does not mean your piracy is not against the law. It's the practice of the RIAA that are unlawful not its intent.
It's been astutely observed that the RIAA's "ex parte" campaign against "John Doe" college students seems to have run into much stormier waters than its campaign against regular folks.
"I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant."
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
But I really hope that most peoples attitudes isn't "why would we buy music when we can pirate it" these days. If it is, maybe the RIAA should be suing people.
You seem to think only the little guy can commit a crime.
It is a crime for large companies to fix prices and kill competition. It is a crime to harass under-privileged children and the handicapped. It is a crime to take 1000s of dollars from common people who probably cannot afford it, who just may be downloading music because they can't pay the highway robbery prices charged for 5 cents of plastic and 9 bad songs. It is a crime to also harass artists (you seem to think all artists are actually happy with the record labels -- please read up on John Fogerty). It is a crime to force John Fogerty into court and him prove that he doesn't sound like himself in hopes of raping him for more millions than you've already raped him for (does the tune "Vance Can't Dance" ring a bell?). It is a crime to attempt to hinder innovation by forcing worthless and spent technology (CDs) just so you can keep a hold on your empire.
Do you honestly think it will stop with people downloading music? As more and more artists are able to create music outside of mainstream record labels, congress will be lobbied, somehow, to shut that down. The RIAA is a monster with money and they will use their huge reserves to continue to harass all sides, not just the evil people you seem to think represent the real villians attacking the harmless RIAA who, after all, care so much for the artists you mention....
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
And it's a fair bet that they actually understand how the Internet works, or at least have access to people who do, which ultimately is probably the thing that the MAFIAA should fear more than anything else.
And following that observation, it's never been clear to me whether the MAFIAA purposely hire clueless "experts" for deposition or whether they honestly don't understand the technology.
...lots of Universities also have a Law Faculty as well, and these are the guys who taught those lawyers.
Ahhh, but that's the whole point. Privacy is important, thus the RIAA must be defeated. Nobody wants to *steal* music, but everybody wants the *freedom* to steal music.
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
That's the thing. Universities have lawyers too... they're called the FACULTY. There's tons of them, and given that they probably taught the RIAA lawyers, they're pretty dangerous.
They're also academic in their understanding of the law, which means that given the shaky ground RIAA lawsuits are standing on, they are unlikely to win.
The whole copyright debate needs to move to a more fundamental level, theres never going to be any workable way for RIAA to keep their old model.
The fact theyre allowed to ruin peoples lives over some songs is crazy, it goes against common sense and will never be accepted no matter what laws they buy.
Ill gladly support musicians via concerts or even taxes, theres no way Im supporting all the evil crap around them tho.
But I really hope that most peoples attitudes isn't "why would we buy music when we can pirate it" these days. If it is, maybe the RIAA should be suing people. You seem to think only the little guy can commit a crime. It is a crime for large companies to fix prices and kill competition. Agreed - so do something about that crime. Two wrongs don't make a right/etc. It is a crime to harass under-privileged children and the handicapped. Depends what you're harassing them for. If you mean by suing them... well, are they copying music they don't own? If so, it isn't harassing. It is a crime to take 1000s of dollars from common people who probably cannot afford it, who just may be downloading music because they can't pay the highway robbery prices charged for 5 cents of plastic and 9 bad songs. This is absolutely NOT a crime. If they can't afford it, they can't afford it. People can't afford cars, software, etc, should they then be allowed to just take those? RIAA music is not an essential life necessity. It is a crime to also harass artists (you seem to think all artists are actually happy with the record labels -- please read up on John Fogerty). It is a crime to force John Fogerty into court and him prove that he doesn't sound like himself in hopes of raping him for more millions than you've already raped him for (does the tune "Vance Can't Dance" ring a bell?). I in no way think that the RIAA is perfect, or that it does things the right way. I made no statement to that effect. But again, this has nothing to do with whether or not you should be pirating music. It is a crime to attempt to hinder innovation by forcing worthless and spent technology (CDs) just so you can keep a hold on your empire. Well, I disagree that the CD is worthless or spent. I see no better hard media out there? Digital downloads are nice, but they don't replace the CD. Regardless, that is not in any way a crime. It's their choice to release their music that way - they have the right to do that. Do you honestly think it will stop with people downloading music? Absolutely not. But what's the choice? For the RIAA to simply LET people download music for free? Like I said, I don't support the RIAA - but they are between a rock and a hard place. What's your method for stopping pirating? As more and more artists are able to create music outside of mainstream record labels, congress will be lobbied, somehow, to shut that down. The RIAA is a monster with money and they will use their huge reserves to continue to harass all sides, not just the evil people you seem to think represent the real villians attacking the harmless RIAA who, after all, care so much for the artists you mention.... I never mentioned an artist. And yet again, I never claimed to like the RIAA or their methods - but again, it is their (distribution) rights.
-Daniel
Dammit, forgot to put in the breaks.
But I really hope that most peoples attitudes isn't "why would we buy music when we can pirate it" these days. If it is, maybe the RIAA should be suing people.
You seem to think only the little guy can commit a crime. It is a crime for large companies to fix prices and kill competition.
Agreed - so do something about that crime. Two wrongs don't make a right/etc.
It is a crime to harass under-privileged children and the handicapped.
Depends what you're harassing them for. If you mean by suing them... well, are they copying music they don't own? If so, it isn't harassing.
It is a crime to take 1000s of dollars from common people who probably cannot afford it, who just may be downloading music because they can't pay the highway robbery prices charged for 5 cents of plastic and 9 bad songs.
This is absolutely NOT a crime. If they can't afford it, they can't afford it. People can't afford cars, software, etc, should they then be allowed to just take those? RIAA music is not a life necessity.
It is a crime to also harass artists (you seem to think all artists are actually happy with the record labels -- please read up on John Fogerty). It is a crime to force John Fogerty into court and him prove that he doesn't sound like himself in hopes of raping him for more millions than you've already raped him for (does the tune "Vance Can't Dance" ring a bell?).
I in no way think that the RIAA is perfect, or that it does things the right way. I made no statement to that effect. But again, this has nothing to do with whether or not you should be pirating music.
It is a crime to attempt to hinder innovation by forcing worthless and spent technology (CDs) just so you can keep a hold on your empire.
Well, I disagree that the CD is worthless or spent. I see no better hard media out there? Digital downloads are nice, but they don't replace the CD. Regardless, that is not in any way a crime. It's their choice to release their music that way - they have the right to do that.
Do you honestly think it will stop with people downloading music?
Absolutely not. But what's the choice? For the RIAA to simply LET people download music for free? Like I said, I don't support the RIAA - but they are between a rock and a hard place. What's your method for stopping pirating?
As more and more artists are able to create music outside of mainstream record labels, congress will be lobbied, somehow, to shut that down. The RIAA is a monster with money and they will use their huge reserves to continue to harass all sides, not just the evil people you seem to think represent the real villians attacking the harmless RIAA who, after all, care so much for the artists you mention....
I never mentioned an artist. And yet again, I never claimed to like the RIAA or their methods - but again, it is their (distribution) rights.
-Daniel
Aside from CS students and a few geek-types, most people know very little about how teh Intarwebs work.
All they know is that they can create documents in Microsoft Word, presentations with Microsft Powerpoint, spreadsheets with Microsoft Excel and party invitations with Microsoft Publisher, send and receive email with Microsoft Outlook Express, chat with Microsoft Messenger, download stuff with Microsoft Internet Explorer and play music and videos with Microsoft's Windows Media Player. (Games are played on Microsft's XBox...)
Very few of them know anything beyond the basic concepts and the right key combos and mouse clicks.
Most of them are usually wrong about the concepts they think they have grasped.
How many long-term computer users have you heard, people who consider themselves to be "tech-savvy", saying variations of things like "Everything on the internet is free"?
Just because most young westerners know how to use a computer doesn't mean they kno how it works, and their ideas about the internet are almost always incorrect.
Just because most of them think something doesn't make it so.
A judge doesn't care that most 19-year-old students want to download stuff free of charge. If somebody owns the rights to that stuff and wish to be paid for it, a judge will rightly support them.
You want to know who isn't running Firefox 2.x? They spell it "definately" and "rediculous".
But luckily, they have entire universities full of professors (including those in computers and law) to help them out and keep them from losing touch with reality. No, college students couldn't beat the RIAA on their own. But college students plus college faculty? That's a different ballgame.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
It's not university resources that is the cause of this backlash. When the RIAA was prosecuting citizens, these are busy people with little time and tight budgets and generally isolated from other people being pursued by the RIAA.
Students... now... these are groups of young people with common interests and copious amounts of free time, who are looking for worthy causes to fight that can define their generation, and have much less to lose as they don't have mortgages, families, and savings. Except for lawyers, you couldn't target a worse group of people. Trying to come down harder on them will make them come together more and strengthen their resolve to stamp out this persecution, a perceived abuse of their civil and human rights.
Good. It's time the RIAA got it's ass kicked and it's especially humbling that it's students doing it - probably the worst offenders on the RIAA hitlist.
Free Software games list and commentary
You certainly sound like a paid troll. You'd have to be a well-paid troll to make such completely uninformed remarks in this venue.
... forever. From my perspective, our entire nation has been greatly wronged by the manipulations of Congress and copyright law made at the behest of the entertainment industry. Consequently, any losses they may sustain via illegal copying and downloading still have a long way to go before they can even begin to redress our grievances. At some point they (and their Congressional accomplices) must to be called to account. Treason is not too strong a word for what they've done.
... that's just so far out there I have no idea how to respond. Perhaps someone else here can properly bitchslap you over that one. If I'm going to subject myself to commentary such as yours I will need another beer.
The industry was well-paid long before Napster came along, is still well-paid (way past the point of obscenity) and will continue to be well-paid for the foreseeable future. Cash flow, as such, is not the problem here so far as the music studios are concerned, in spite of their tired old "{this or that technology} will destroy the industry!" mantra. God, I am so sick of these self-serving bastards and their extreme view of their own importance to society.
They're irritated that they've lost some control of distribution, and are upset because sales growth isn't what it once was. The music business is still strong: there are many factors that have influenced their overall profitability, of which downloading is only one, and by no means the most significant. Depending upon which study you believe, their current financial condition may very well have been bolstered by illegal downloading. Way to go team!
Furthermore, your presumption that artists aren't making any money due to people downloading songs from P2P is a. wrong and b. forgetful of the simple fact that they've never been paid properly. The studios have been ripping off their artists since, well
As for the Feds monitoring every connection in the United States
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
I love how you try to pull the retarded slippery slope allegation by claiming that downloading MP3s or tv shows will lead to loss of anonymity. Yeah, because the people who are pulling for the end of anonymity are doing it because of MP3s. Countries like China simply do not want any of it's citizens downloading ricky martin songs without paying for them. That must be really it.
You want to whine and try to sell the idea that the monopolization and capitalization of culture and education is in everyone's best interest? Please do so. Yet, at least try to argue with some facts and rational reasoning instead of trying to pull totally groundless "big bad wolf" and "slippery slope" scare tactics.
Slashdot, fix your code or at least hire someone who is competent at it to do it for you.
Which is why they still have souls. And ideals.
Burn the Land and Boil the Seas, you can't take the sky from me...
The problem is that people get riled up so to speak over the wrong, "injustice".
The injustice here isn't RIAA or lawsuits. The problem is that media consolidation has lead to a point where the amount of control is vested in a vanishingly small number of people.
If there were dozens of record labels they would never be able to agree on a common font let alone to all band together to sue customers.
It is unlikely that a large group could co-ordinate their interests enough to buy off a dog catcher let alone congress.
But once you condense this down to a group of a half dozen or less and put all that money, which in our society is equal to power, into their hands well then they can figure out how to do things
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up involuntarily targeting lawyers too.
1. I'd imagine that any university would at least have a legal department, or a contract with some lawyer firm, or whatever. They may not be of the caliber of IBM, whose lawyers have been said to be like the Nazgul or darken the skies, but they have or can afford someone who knows whether a "bend over and give us your money and a self-incriminating confession" letter actually has any legal basis or not.
Basically it's not just that students are connected, it's that it only takes one university to feel targeted as an organization, to be a lot more organized in fighting back. When you target isolated persons or even some (incompetently-led) tiny companies, you can bully them around or pull a "stand and deliver" and scare them into actually giving you their money. When you target someone with lawyers, they'll ask those first.
2. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the universities actually had law one of the majors. So they'd have a lot of people whose whole job there is to learn about that kind of stuff, and, worse yet, some whose job is to teach it.
And the former can go ask the latter. I mean, it's not like Jane Grandma who'll be like "omg, where will I find a good lawyer, and can I possibly afford one?" If you have someone teaching you law courses, it just begs to go ask him about law.
3. Student connections run wider than just that campus. Even if you target a pure technical university, some of those students will be the son/daughter of a lawyer (Bill Gates was the son of a wealthy lawyer, for example), some will be dating a cute law student because those universities have more women, etc.
Basically, individual John Doe lawsuits/law-threats can be carefully targeted against people who statistically should be more likely to be defenseless. If your list of IPs includes one for the head of a famous law firm, you'd have to be a dolt to send him a pseudo-legal nastygram. But when you take a shotgun approach among such a big group as a university, you may well end up targeting the son of that same lawyer.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Apparently, because of shows like Law & Order, you might feel that only trial lawyers are worth a damn. Though, I would argue it's usually the other way around.
Atlas Shrugged : Thematic Story