Boston Judge Denies RIAA Motion for Judgment

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "In a Boston case, Capitol v. Alaujan, the defendant is representing herself, without a lawyer. Nevertheless, the Judge denied the RIAA's motion for summary judgment, which the RIAA had based upon the defendant's alleged failure to respond to the RIAA's Request for Admissions. The Court's decision (pdf) held that the RIAA had served its requests for admission prematurely, prior to the conduct of any discovery conference. The Court also noted that the RIAA had upped the ante quite a bit, trying to get a judgment based on 41 song files, even though it had originally been asking for judgment based on 9 song files. This would have increased the size of the judgment from about $7,000 to about $31,000. The Judge scheduled a discovery conference for October 23rd, at 2:30 P.M. and ordered everybody to attend. Such conferences are open to the public."

Comments

What I found odd about the case

[Anonymous Coward]

is that the judge also ruled that Cory Doctorow has a stupid, stupid haircut.

Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Highlighting every abuse of judicial power as a good thing because it stymies the RIAA is just the geek version of invoking "the children" to justify similar abuses of the system.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[stratjakt]

No, judges do not enforce, police and prosecutors do the enforcing. But that would be criminal law, and this is civil.

The judges job is to interpret the law, as it is written, and based on past case histories.

I do agree with your sentiment though, too many judges are trying to go against precedent and legislate from the bench.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[Lockejaw]

And let's not forget the courts' all-important function of deciding whether a defendant is guilty. If all they did was interpret laws, every case would be essentially a summary judgment.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[E 99]

And another swing and miss. Juries, not judges, decide if defendants are guilty, and that is again criminal law, not civil law.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[timmarhy]

Wrong Wrong Wrong.

the judicial system's very purpose is to interperate the law, and to test it in court. You have ZERO understanding of how the legal systems works if you think all judges do is rubberstamp the law.

open your damn ears, haven't you ever heard of laws being thrown out on account of them failing to hold up in court on a consitutional challenge?

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[E 99]

The judges job is to interpret the law, as it is written, and based on past case histories.

I do agree with your sentiment though, too many judges are trying to go against precedent and legislate from the bench.

If a judge's job were to interpret the law "based on past case histories," he would be doing nothing but turning past judgments into legislation! And power being what it is, many are happy to do so.

A judge's job is to apply the law, as written, to the case. Insofar as it's possible within that mandate, judgments should be as consistent with prior rulings as possible.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[ari_j]

There were other swings and misses in both that comment and elsewhere in this thread. I haven't read any other comment threads attached to this story but I rest assured they are mostly as bad.

What law are judges presiding over the RIAA cases supposedly making? What precedents are they ignoring or going against? Can anyone articulate these things or are we just jumping on a "judicial activism is bad and every judge is a judicial activist" bandwagon lately?

As to summary judgment and interpreting the laws - these are orthogonal concepts. Summary judgment is simply the judge deciding that the case must come down a certain way according to the law, because there is no material fact in good-faith dispute. A material fact is one that actually matters to the case. For instance, if I have to prove that you sold me a car in order to win, it is immaterial whether the car was made in Japan.

The idea that judges "interpret" the laws is mostly a creature of high school civics classes. Judges apply the laws to disputes between parties. The judge may do some interpreting in the process, but that is neither the judge's whole job or is it solely the judge's job.

The criminal vs. civil issue will be dealt with in 30 other comments to this story. I'm not overly concerned about covering it here, as a result.

The judge vs. jury divide is worth discussing. Juries decide issues of fact. That's their only real job. When a judge denies a motion for summary judgment, he is essentially saying that there is enough of a factual dispute to send the case to a jury. It won't go to a jury immediately, of course, but it hasn't lost that possibility in the future. That's what happened here.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[anagama]

Nice summary. It is worth pointing out that judges can also perform the fact finding function juries do. This would happen when no party demands a jury. If however, one party demands a jury, then the facts will be decided by jury.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[ari_j]

That's also true. It depends a lot on your jurisdiction and the nature of your case. Cases at equity are not entitled to juries at all, for instance. Thanks for adding this clarification. :)

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, you've got it wrong too.

The prosecutor decides who's innocent or guilty, weighs in the strength of his case and offers them both a raping of severity according to strength of the case. The other option? A chance to double or nothing with a nice, big, horse cock.

Guess how many innocent people gamble a horse cock on a jury composed of joe 6 packs?

Let's put it this way: If an 80 year old busy body witness "couldn't remember" a yes or no question, and the investigating officer asked them to "try their best", the effort induced memory always seems to be what the cop wants to hear...

Better get your lube. Double or nothing is a sucker's bet.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[stox]

Yes, raping is the key function of a prosecutor these days.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Can anyone articulate these things or are we just jumping on a "judicial activism is bad and every judge is a judicial activist" bandwagon lately? You must be new here. This is slashdot. We moderate down anyone who doesn't agree with us and vice versa.

This is a troll, not flame bait or "flaimbait" or "flamebate" as most of you ignorant fools spell it, so get it right when you mod me down. OK? Thanks. Have a *nice* day everyone!

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[Opportunist]

Judges should not ENFORCE the law. That's the job of the police. Judges should not MAKE the law. That's the job of the government. Judges should INTERPRET the law.

That's how the system works. Government makes laws. They decide what is legal and illegal, what procedures are to be followed and how the other two powers are to behave in the context of the law. Under perfect circumstances, those laws are created with a balance in mind that aims at upholding the order and create a fair and balanced playing field for everyone.

Police (or the executive in general) enforces the law. They are granted rights and privileges above those of a normal person who they are to employ within the borders of legality to enforce the laws created by the government, to enforce order and to hunt down and arrest people who break the law.

The courts, finally, have a rather heavy load to bear. They are on one hand a safeguard for the other powers, especially the executive (so they don't overstep their rights), on the other hand it's on the court to make sure that procedures are followed and the orderly flow of the system is observed. And finally it's the court's position to decide in ambigious cases which side should be "winning". Guilty or not.

They're not making law. They are using the laws present to interpret them in such a way that the fairness and balance created through the legislative are observed and upheld.

At least that's the theory. That reality often doesn't match it is a given. But generally, those are the reasons those three parts exist. No single power should have all the power in its hands.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Judges should not ENFORCE the law. That's the job of the police. Judges should not MAKE the law. That's the job of the government. Judges should INTERPRET the law.

To be more specific, the legislative branch creates the laws, the executive branch approves the laws, and the judicial branch interprets the laws and decides issues on constitutionality of the laws.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[Binkleyz]

"interperate"

Do you mean interpret?

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[Lockejaw]

And let's not forget the courts' all-important function of deciding whether a defendant is guilty.

And another swing and miss. Juries, not judges, decide if defendants are guilty, and that is again criminal law, not civil law.

I said courts, not judges.

Re:Judges should ENFORCE the law, not MAKE it.

[billtouch]

A summary judgment is a judgment made without a defense being offered. In fact, it is asked for when there is no response to any filing. That doen't represent 'every case'. Usually cases are decided by both sides presenting evidence and either a jury or (if agreed upon by both parties) the judge rendering a verdict. Following the verdict, comes the judgement. Confusion in the process comes when the verdict is decided by a judge then the judgement comes from the same judge.

Bill

Newsworthy

[Cassius Corodes]

Is everything that has something to do with the RIAA getting shot down newsworthy on slashdot these days?

Re:Newsworthy

[CriminalNerd]

No, everything that also indicates even a sliver of success is newsworthy of slashdot too. What else do you think we do when there's nothing new about Vista to insult? Bash Microsoft? Hah, we still need an anti-Vista article to be able to post our hate.

Re:Newsworthy

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's not, why the hell are you here wasting your time over it?

Re:Newsworthy

[someone1234]

Apparently the RIAA tried to cheat a poor man who couldn't even afford to hire a defense.
Why is this news?
Probably to warn other victims.

Re:Newsworthy

[jamstar7]

Is everything that has something to do with the RIAA getting shot down newsworthy on slashdot these days?

Think of it as comic relief in a humor-starved environment.

Re:Newsworthy

[sumdumass]

Why is this news?

I think it is better served a an example that even the poor are getting a fair shot when defending themselves from huge corporations with tons of money backing their case.

Not only do I see this as promising, I see it as a possible assault to the RIAA style tactics. Most people wouldn't have the money to pay the settlement or the full fine so why not fight it even if you have to learn how to in the process. Worst case scenario, you have lost some time which seems to be a commodity poor people could afford as easily as rich people. If you gave up, your still losing so sweat equity is the best way around. Especially if you have the truth on your side.

Anyways, If RIAA continues picking on people with dirty handed tactics and they keep standing up to them, The costs they cannot recover will mount and maybe even be owed to whoever they are going after. Then maybe they will stop the dirty handed tactics and some rational sense will prevail from the situation.

Re:Newsworthy

[Anonymous Coward]

Ran out of SCO stories(the latest one barely counts) http://yro.slashdot.org/search.pl?query=sco

RIAA aka mafiaa stories abound http://slashdot.org/search.pl?query=RIAA

Vista - If you like it you bought it. If you don't, you won't.

Re:Newsworthy

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

Why is this news? I think it is better served a an example that even the poor are getting a fair shot when defending themselves from huge corporations with tons of money backing their case. Not only do I see this as promising, I see it as a possible assault to the RIAA style tactics. Most people wouldn't have the money to pay the settlement or the full fine so why not fight it even if you have to learn how to in the process. Worst case scenario, you have lost some time which seems to be a commodity poor people could afford as easily as rich people. If you gave up, your still losing so sweat equity is the best way around. Especially if you have the truth on your side. Anyways, If RIAA continues picking on people with dirty handed tactics and they keep standing up to them, The costs they cannot recover will mount and maybe even be owed to whoever they are going after. Then maybe they will stop the dirty handed tactics and some rational sense will prevail from the situation. Think of it as a form of grassroots organizing over the internet. It drives the RIAA crazy knowing that defendants and defendants' lawyers all across the country are starting to have almost as much information as they do about what's going on in these cases. It's harder for them to lie about it.

Re:Newsworthy

[Anonymous Coward]

Think of it as a form of grassroots organizing over the internet. It drives the RIAA crazy knowing that defendants and defendants' lawyers all across the country are starting to have almost as much information as they do about what's going on in these cases. It's harder for them to lie about it.

Something we could use a lot more of, including the success stories. Grassroots movements like this, proven to work, could inspire more in other grassroots movements, movements to return power to the people for instance and perhaps achieve true world peace through communication and acceptance of differences and perhaps the eventual dissolving of major portions of those differences as the internet becomes the community.

This potential drives governments etc crazy, thus their desire to control and censor the internet. We love to hear when little people defeat the apparent odds of going against a powerful corporation or government because it gives us hope that we can too.

Re:Newsworthy

[KURAAKU Deibiddo]

Personally, even though I don't feel particularly at risk from an RIAA suit, I find it somewhat comforting to know what they're up to, and how the various suits that they've filed are faring. I continue to hope that our legal system decides not to give in to the RIAA's tactic of sue-first-and-ask-questions later, and that seems to be the case of late. I also appreciate what Ray Beckerman is doing, both with his blog and his submissions to Slashdot. Being informed is a good thing.

Ray: Thank you for your efforts in raising awareness of these issues, you're a credit to your profession. Keep at it!

Re:Newsworthy

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

Personally, even though I don't feel particularly at risk from an RIAA suit, I find it somewhat comforting to know what they're up to, and how the various suits that they've filed are faring. I continue to hope that our legal system decides not to give in to the RIAA's tactic of sue-first-and-ask-questions later, and that seems to be the case of late. I also appreciate what Ray Beckerman is doing, both with his blog and his submissions to Slashdot. Being informed is a good thing. Ray: Thank you for your efforts in raising awareness of these issues, you're a credit to your profession. Keep at it! Thank you very much, KURAAKU.

These bullies are trying to (a) distort copyright law, (b) monopolize digital music, and (c) abuse the judicial process. People need to know about it. And the more people that know about it, the more we can do to fight back.

By the way, p2pnet.net came out with an article on this Boston event which gives a little more information about Judge Gertner.

Yeah yeah yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

typical of Slashdot to cheer on a criminal getting away with theft because a judge doesn't understand the damage piracy causes and thinks it's just 'copyright infringement' so it isn't that bad. Fucking liberals, get a job and work for a living then maybe you'll have the money to buy the music you want to listen to and have less time to spend on the internet trying to justify why serious felonies like trafficking warez and child porn shouldn't be punished by jail time.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, I hope the RIAA hit her with everything they've got and the judge gets some sense slapped into him and throws the book at her. I hope this bitch rots in prison.

Re:Yeah yeah yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

I am utterly disgusted that you would think that I condone warez!

Re:Yeah yeah yeah

[Tuoqui]

I hope you rot in prison. I mean come on? 9 songs? 41 songs? What the hell is it? Have you paid the RIAA for whistling a tune while walking down the street? No? Oh well you should be locked away for copyright infringement.

Re:Yeah yeah yeah

[mrchaotica]

Have you paid the RIAA for whistling a tune while walking down the street? No? Oh well you should be locked away for copyright infringement.

Actually, people in that situation would be locked away for failing to pay off ASCAP, not the RIAA.

Re:Yeah yeah yeah

[digitig]

So you already know the person is guilty before the trial, do you? Do you know the defendant personally or do you just have astonishing psychic powers?

Re:Yeah yeah yeah

[thc69]

Actually, people in that situation would be locked away for failing to pay off ASCAP

People in either situation need an ASS CAP to cover their ass so they won't be raped.

Maybe we should ask Sean Connery to resume working on the Anal Bum Cover.

for future reference

[Anonymous Coward]

I sat naked on the bench in the health club locker room, staring at the tiles on the floor between my feet, but really looking at nothing. I was waiting for Jamal to decide to come up and talk to me. He was this muscular teenage nigger who frequented the club and had ruined my life in the last few weeks. I was ordered to sit naked on the bench without a towel or anything to cover my nakedness. I had to keep my legs spread and my cock and balls visible for the anyone In the locker room who wanted a look. I knew instantly that it had been a mistake to sign up at the inner city health club which was eighty percent black, but It was near my house and cheap which was even more important.

The harassment had started on my first visit. Dark skinned, muscular black boys bouncing around the locker room with their huge dicks and pendulous sacks of balls swinging, high fiving each other and laughing and rapping, and there I was, this moderately built white guy of thirty two.

I will never forget coming back from the shower and one chocolate skinned thug of about eighteen let out a "weeeeeeeow" kind of sound and then said very loudly to me, loudly enough for all his pals to hear, "White man, how the hell can you fuck wit such a small dick?" They all roared with laughter and I turned bright red. Before I left that first time, I med Jamal. He eased up to me while I was packing my gym bag. He is one good looking darkie, I will say that for him. He flashed me a big white toothed smile and said he hoped I wasn't thinking of quitting the club. He said he was friends with the manager and they had my address and shit, and it would be really unfortunate if I decided to quit. Then he laid one large basketball player sized hand on my shoulder and said that he would see me at the same time the next day.

Well, that's how it started. It got worse each time I went to the club. Jamal and the other niggers got me to get towels for them, had me scrub their backs in the shower, even made me pick their dirty stinking jock straps up off the floor. They sent their filthy jocks and socks home with me to wash for them.

Now let me state here once and for all, that I am in no way at all gay. I don't think I ever even had a gay thought. So all of this really repulsed me. They would brush up against me so their big fat black dicks rubbed my body. They would make constant jokes about me being a faggot.

So I had it out with Jamal. I told him I was a single parent with a thirteen year old daughter and in no way gay, and I wanted to quit the club. That mention of my daughter was the biggest mistake of my life. Jamal demanded to see a photo of her. Her name is Crissy. After that, all they talked about was "Crissy the Cunt" in the locker room.

"Some fourteen year old school boy probably shoving his dick in her right now while you is at da club." They would say things like that. Jamal would ask, "Do you suppose she had ever sucked black dick?" I told them she was totally innocent, and they should keep their foul mouths to themselves. They beat the shit out of me.

I didn't go to the club for a week. All the windows were broken on my car, and my newspaper was stolen, and somebody pissed all over our door. I received a package at work, and when I opened it, there was a pile of shit in a box. I was going nuts with anguish. I thought of going to the police, but I knew I would face even worse if I did. So I went back to the club. That was two months ago. A lot had happened in those two months.

Now I sat waiting for Jamal to speak with me. He walked up, stark naked. The first thing I saw were his huge brown feet next to me. I looked up at his long muscular legs. How could I miss the seven inch flaccid dick, thick as a flashlight and the ball sack that looked like it had oranges in it. It was fucking obscene. His stomach was hard and tight. His ass was one of those round tight nigger bubble butts. His chest well defined with large nipples. He had a killer smile, thick nigger lips, and dark flashing eyes that often looked

Re:for future reference

[Lifyre]

What the Fuck Mate? Get a Livejournal or something.

Re:for future reference

[Walpurgiss]

It's like the 3rd time I've seen this exact post here :/ Almost every topic ends up with one of these copy/pasted troll stories. Another irritating one is about some guy getting his intestines sucked out by a pool suction vent. Only slightly more annoying to skip past than the usual 'milfy bewbs' myspace link (due to length) but much, much, stupider.

Re:for future reference

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree. The "Get a Live Journal" troll (as we call him) is annoying.

it's open to the public

[circletimessquare]

some tips for the slashdot crowd:

welcome the outdoors! yes the bright thing up there is called the sun. no you can't turn it off. the other people you see around you you can't just point and click on to communicate with, nor should you strafe them

1. bathe. it is customary for members of the public to bathe, at least more than once a month
2. wear pants. underwear is ok for life in the basement, but the general public tends to wear pants
3. shave, if you are male. not a requirement, but a good idea if you don't have groomed facial hair. and if you are reading this and you aren't male... well, who are we kidding

Re:it's open to the public

[rtb61]

Shaving, I never did get why it is so necessary to look like a pre-pubescent child, perhaps the mass media 'in' crowd could explain that one too me, I would have thought it was indicative of some seriously disturbed shared sexual preferences, but then the hollywood and MTV crowd will sell anything.

Are you, or are you not, part of the Slashdot crowd (you read, you post, you are), as such I really don't see the need for you to share your obviously disturbed grooming and dress habits ;).

Re:it's open to the public

[E 99]

I'm with you. For an adult male to shave is essentially to dress in drag. Hey, men have done worse things through history as societal norms than removing their facial hair to look like women. But the way that masculinity is feared by most modern Western men and women alike is disturbing.

Re:it's open to the public

[adamclarke77]

2. wear pants. underwear is ok for life in the basement, but the general public tends to wear pants Translation required for us Brits please

Re:it's open to the public

[Anonymous Coward]

RMS, is that you?

Re:it's open to the public

[Anonymous Coward]

Wot's all this then? Wear trousers, y'bloody wanker. Knickers are okay for a life in the cellar, but the general public tends to wear trousers, gov'nah.

Re:it's open to the public

[loganrapp]

Men like women who like fast cars. So men like fast cars.

Apply to other areas of male life as you will.

Re:it's open to the public

[CmdrGravy]

They change into knickers in the cellar ? Kinky.

Re:it's open to the public

[Opportunist]

I shave regularely, what are you ... oh, you mean the face, right?

Re:it's open to the public

[Weezul]

Yes, it'd be nice if people showed up & expressed support, even the smelly kind. It might help her emotionally if nothing else.

Re:it's open to the public

[AkumaReloaded]

Being Santa Claus I generally consider shaving to be pointless for 2 reasons.

1. The kids love me with my fuzzy beard, without it I am nothing to them, nothing!!!
2. When I shave my beard it grows back within minutes, as depicted in the awesome succesful funny christmas film Santa Claus featured with Tim Alles as me.

However I do tend to shave my lower regions cause misses santa claus likes it that way.

Re:it's open to the public

[Kineticabstract]

Nah, men like fast cars, period. Men also like women who like men with fast cars, but if there were no women who liked men with fast cars, men would still like fast cars.

I concede that much of what we do centers around whether women like it, but not everything. I present as my proof the following word:

"Golf"

Re:it's open to the public

[elrous0]

Are you sayin' you're bloody football team is better than mine, you fuckin' tosser!?!?

Re:it's open to the public

[Anonymous Coward]

Football? You can't even touch the ball with your hands. Rugby forever!

Re:it's open to the public

[ultranova]

I concede that much of what we do centers around whether women like it, but not everything. I present as my proof the following word:

"Golf"

A game where the object is to deposit a white object into holes using thursts from a long stick 18 times in a row ?-)

yay boston

[ystar]

This only shows that the legal system takes notice when a Big Bad Association acts extra evil. Reporting on little wins here and there is fun, but what's needed is more serious legal action against the RIAA for extortionist practices in the first place. Sadly there doesn't seem to be enough of a reward to motivate anyone to do so yet.

Re:yay boston

[Anonymous Coward]

This only shows that the legal system takes notice when a Big Bad Association acts extra evil. Reporting on little wins here and there is fun, but what's needed is more serious legal action against the RIAA for extortionist practices in the first place. Sadly there doesn't seem to be enough of a reward to motivate anyone to do so yet.

They still have the support of the media bosses and the in pocket politicticians. However as they continue to build evidence against themselves and finding it hard to win these lawsuits attempt to get passed more laws in their favor attempt to gain further leverage against their contracted perfomers, then you can expect things to shift some more as some state's Attorney General won't be able to resist the risks to his polictical career for a chance to make a name for himself and perhaps advance that career, also there is a strong chance that the artists will go public against the recording companies when they find out what additional leverage the recording industry has gotten or attempted to get on them. There may even be some presidential candidate that is hoping to catch a large enough misstep by the recording industry to force the matter and themself into the news. As long as the money and the media are on the side of the recording industry, don't expect much effort to go against them until things shift the other way in opinion as it did against the tobacco industry, which will be difficult since the media was against the tobacco industry to start with, not the case here.

Re:yay boston

[CodeBuster]

Sadly there doesn't seem to be enough of a reward to motivate anyone to do so yet.

NYCountryLawyer and his firm are gaining lots of good publicity and notoriety for mounting successful defenses of ordinary people against a widely reviled group of corporate big money plaintiffs and their trade organization. You cannot buy this type of good will and press publicity at any price. This David and Goliath (think Erin Brockovich) kind of thing is what lawyers, particularly smaller independent firms, live for because it increases their chances of landing newer and bigger clients who will ultimately bring the firm even more money. They can also, if they are savvy, parley that goodwill into a political career or a term in elected office.

Re:yay boston

[Anonymous Coward]

No - what's needed here is people not pirating, then entities like the RIAA don't exist.

When you tards get that through your thick skulls, then perhaps you'll understand.

Until then, I hope the RIAA keeps finding people, getting settlements from them, etc, etc.

Jombeewoof, get off the Internet.

[Anonymous Coward]

Boycott jombeewoof! He is an idiot and a cheap bastard. He needs to leave Slashdot forever.
Jombeewoof is a bastard who thinks the world owes him a living. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=267807&cid=202 07637 [slashdot.org] Jombeewoof tried to destroy an Internet Service Provider in Massachusetts by expecting large bandwidth without paying anything. Educated alone doesn't pay the bills. Jombeewoof is not worth your mod points and is a MySpace loser. Jombeewoof, give up, get off the Internet. The TrollGoons won't leave you alone.
[ Reply to This | Parent

Oh crap!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Judge scheduled a discovery conference for October 23rd, at 2:30 P.M. and ordered everybody to attend. I guess I'd better hurry up and book my flight!

But seriously...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_081507 /content/01125106.guest.html

My favorite part is when Rove says that the Democrats are still running against George Bush, even though he isn't going to be on the ballot. Lack of vision, indeed.

Re:But seriously...

[Anonymous Coward]

Off topic? Yet somehow a post telling the slashdot mouth-breathing basement-dwellers to bathe, shave, and not fear the sun is on topic? Good call, fags.

Re:But seriously...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not at all. The democrats are just trying to woo the majority of hillbillies who voted for Bush twice already and have no idea he's not actually running a third time.

Re:But seriously...

[Anonymous Coward]

Methinks if only hillbillies supported Bush, his war chest would not have been nearly as large as it was. Hillbillies generally don't make lots of money. Besides, you're kidding yourself if you think that anyone on the Democratic ticket wouldn't be just as disastrous for this country - or worse. Let's take a look at who the front-runners are:

Obama: A lightweight who speaks in broad, soothing platitudes. He's just a stuffed shirt, and Hillary will destroy him and win the nomination (a good thing for Republicans). He really screwed up when he talked about invading Pakistan before he even set foot in the Oval Office. Mitt Romney's "Dr. Strangelove" comment will come back to bite Obama later.

Hillary: The best possible scenario for Republicans - and the most likely one. She's the only Democratic top-tier candidate possessing any gravitas, but she also has the most skeletons in her closet. People still haven't forgotten Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate, Blowjobgate, Pardongate, or that her accountant buddy Vince Foster wound up in a cemetery with a bullet in his head after he was VERY late filing the presidential blind trust paperwork. She and her husband are masters at shedding what would be career-killers for anyone else (not to mention prison sentences) with a few carefully-scripted lines. Most people, with the exception of the residents of the state of New York, have caught on to the Clintons' verbal gymnastic skills, though. Only the media and New Yorkers want a leader that's actually smooth and well-practiced at lying to them.

Edwards: Just shut down his offices in Nevada. Almost no one takes him seriously. He talks alot about 2 Americas, but he also makes it very obvious which one he lives in. It's hard for anyone with a conscience to get behind an ambulance-chaser. He talks a good game about how health care costs are becoming untenable in America, but he doesn't acknowledge that as a lawyer he was part of the problem, and that the US still has the best health care available anywhere. People from Canada come here for operations that their socialized health care plans won't cover or won't approve of in a timely fashion. Edwards also comes across as a phony who can turn that winning smile on and off at will, and who makes his supporters wait outside in the heat for hours while he's late for an appearance because he'd rather be jogging. Well, he can just keep on joggin' past 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, 'cause it ain't gonna happen. Ever.

These hillbillies you deride can't be any dumber than Democratic voters, though. At least the Republicans make some pretense about not having contempt for their constituents. The Democrats make no such effort. I think it's so ironic that they call themselves "Progressives" (because the Democrat label is like poison nowadays), but they advocate so many regressive policies: preferential treatment based on skin color (or even sexual preference if they get their way), expansion of the welfare state without addressing looming budget shortfalls as baby-boomers begin to retire, gun control, etc. It's the Democrats who are trying to derail open government legislation so they can keep hiding their fatty pork that they tack onto every bill. It's the Democrats who cowered and backed down on their promise to end the war in Iraq. More broken promises from failed leaders. Don't you guys ever get tired of that?

shaving is for female interest

[circletimessquare]

women, in general, like men without facial hair. women wear lipstick and high heels for male interest, men shave for female interest

again, considering the forum, i am not surprised you don't know this

Re:shaving is for female interest

[andphi]

circletimessquare has it right, at least as far as female preference. Women prefer it (though my wife oscillates periodically on this subject), it apparently looks more professional, and the average adult male has enough angular bone structure in his face to make it readily apparent that he isn't 14.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[timmarhy]

Your an idiot. many women like the rough look of being 1/2 shaven. My facial hair grows very quickly and trying to stay clean shaven for more then a day isn't possible, so i leave it 1/2 grown most of the time and women love it.

So stop trying to be an ass and claim you speak for every woman on the planet.

I'd lay money that a quick survey of ./ would show the majority of males here are married with kids or long term parteners. take your misconceptions else where dickwad.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[rtb61]

Hmm, are they born this way, or is this sexual perversion just driven by mass media, it would seem rather illogical that men and women naturally evolved this way over hundreds of thousands of years, I mean why do you consider the natural appearance of men and women so disgusting, is there something you see in the mirror that so disturbs you in the mornings.

Considering the reply, I would not be surprised that you cant' tell the difference between you making a choice and somepne marking your choices for you, a victim of marketing, obey, buy, believe, obey, buy some more, obey, tell everyone else, buy some more, obey - So sad ;(.

Slashdot by definition and appearance would then seem to be the home of independent thought, perhaps you might feel more at home on the juvenile, lipstick, shaver and high heels forums ;).

Re:shaving is for female interest

[deftcoder]

"Your an idiot"

Haha, I love it.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Anonymous Coward]

Your an idiot.

Yet another classic "Timmarhy" post. He should really have his own section by now. I'm nearly convinced he really can't spell his own name.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Paradise Pete]

So stop trying to be an ass and claim you speak for every woman on the planet.

He said "generally."

Re:shaving is for female interest

[jamstar7]

women, in general, like men without facial hair. women wear lipstick and high heels for male interest, men shave for female interest

My fiance' LOVES my beard. It's long enough to be soft to tickle her in all the right spots.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[sumdumass]

It used to be common for a man to shave in order to continue to look young to attract a mate. After they got their mate, they signified it by growing a beard. Some Amish still practice this. It was sort of a off the market thing.

Of course some people cannot grow a decent beard and not everyone does this for other reasons like looks. Some people lacking facial feature like strong chins and stuff grow beards to hide their percieved imperfections. A lot of things (like jobs) require people to be clean shaved too. Anyone who needs to wear a SCBA needs to shave, most medical people need to shave, food service employees need to shave, runners and swimmers do it for the drag factor and so on. There are ways around some of the need to shave things I mentioned like hair nets and stuff. In todays age, I just think it is more of a personal preference then anything unless your in a profession that would need it.

I do believe the primary attraction comes from the youthful days where it is natural to find a mate who doesn't have a beard. Society has increased the natural age for mating for obvious reasons and all, but I think it is natural or genetics or something to be sexually attractive at young ages and learned attraction isn't easy to give up.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[timmarhy]

i understand the point of your post, are you trying to be a spelling nazi and pick on the "your" or that the nick "timmarhy" isn't an acurate enough representation of the timmy character from south park (since after all that's what the nick is a tribute to)

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Splab]

Also beards can scratch, I tried letting mine grow this summer and it drove me nuts.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[CodeBuster]

Agreed...getting out of a hot shower and then taking a fresh sharp razor to 3 day old stubble covered in soft foam is one of the simple pleasures in life.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[digitalchinky]

How long did you let it grow out for? It is definitely irritating for the first 6 weeks, not so bad after that. Did you use conditioner every day?

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Antique Geekmeister]

Lady, just because *you* have to shave at 10 AM to avoid 5 o'clock shadow, doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[digitig]

Also beards can scratch, I tried letting mine grow this summer and it drove me nuts. Also they can tickle, which I have found quite positive for the female interest.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[rtb61]

you kinda left out legs, armpits and crotches, hmm. Still as a supposedly intelligent species attempting to look like a sexually immature version of the species has to be psychologically questionable and in today's age, with regard to the threats to children in society, that attempt and the desirability of those features surely sets questionable moral precedence and provides very poor subconscious life lessons for children growing up in that environment.

Of course I'm slack and idle, I don't grow a beard so much as I couldn't be bothered paying for Mr Gillette and co's next mansion and to be blunt I am vain about not being vain.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't you start talking about my an idiot! YOUR an idiot. SO THERE!

Re:shaving is for female interest

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

It's almost as funny as people who think spelling/grammar makes a person smart.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Ash-Fox]

It's almost as funny as people who think spelling/grammar makes a person smart.

It does help indicate that a person is an intellectual.

In my opinion, people with bad spelling and grammar do not tend to be intellectuals.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Wite_Noiz]

unless your in a profession that would need it

Bluegrass band?

Re:shaving is for female interest

[deftcoder]

There is a correlation.

Rampant misspellings and grammatical inconsistencies usually imply a lack of education or attentiveness.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Anonymous Coward]

women, in general, like men without facial hair

Hmmm... considering that facial hair is a secondary sexual characteristic, one of the major things that make men look different than women, exactly how does that work? Wouldn't a woman who likes bald faces be like a man who likes flat-chested women?

And how in the hell would you know about what women want, son? The truth is, MEN in general like WOMEN without facial hair.

The difference between a man's shave and a woman's radical mastectomy is that titties don't grow back. After my divorce I went three years without getting laid. Then I grew a goatee. And got rid of my broken glasses. Now I get laid! Well, once in a while... You can too if you follow a few simple rules.

If you're a feminine man with little to no facial hair, then yes, shave it off. But the only women who like a lack of facial hair are lesbians. If your wife tells you to shave, tell her if you catch her in bed with another women you get the other woman, too.

As to the lipstick, it fakes sexual interest: a human's lips get increased blood flow when the human is aroused. And women wear high heels because they're crowd-following masochists. Height is decidedly unfeminine, so women want tall men. The taller their heels make them the taller a man they can attract.

Ok, do I have to turn in my nerd license now?

-mcgrew

Re:shaving is for female interest

[j00r0m4nc3r]

I shave as denial of my shameful ape ancestry.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Sancho]

A good straight razor will last you a lifetime and give you a better shave than those crappy Gilettes. And it's something you can pass on to your children.

As for your nature argument, it's bollucks. There are great biological reasons to choose a younger mate. Young men are more likely to be able to kill and protect the tribe than old men. Young women will produce healthier children, and will live longer to produce more children so that the species has a higher chance of survival.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[gharris]

And this thread is why I love slashdot. Where else can you start reading about RIAA lawsuits and end up with a full-on discussion about shaving? Good stuff.

--Glenn

Re:shaving is for female interest

[coolGuyZak]

Sociologist.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

It does help indicate that a person is an intellectual.

Agreed, but those who think that some typo makes you less intelligent, let's just say their "spelling/grammar" isn't so crash hot, if you know what I mean.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Anonymous Coward]

You shall not speak of slashdot's nemisis, dotslash, here.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[IdolizingStewie]

I fail to see where you know any more about what women want than he does. You're both male. I much prefer clean-shaven in general. Quite frankly, the vast majority of men either can't grow a decent beard or don't take care of it properly. Stubble is sexy, but it's unprofessional and certainly shouldn't appear in a courtroom. And as I recall, the purpose of high heels is to tighten the calf, accentuating the shape of the leg to attract men of all heights. PS. Fuck you very much for calling me a lesbian. My boyfriend would be quite surprised to hear it. I'm gonna guess the reason you didn't get laid for three years is actually the fact that you're a dick.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[IdolizingStewie]

God damn HTML formatting. There's supposed to be a paragraph break before the PS.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[rtb61]

Evolutionary speaking, bullocks boy, if that were true, then men would not grow beards, and women would not get hairy legs, evolution takes tens of thousands of years it does not happen overnight. You have even confused social with biological evolution.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[Sancho]

I haven't confused social with biological evolution. I've suggested that they're somewhat entwined.

Someone earlier in the thread asked why we would shave, making ourselves appear younger. I posit that we do so because on an unconscious level, we seek younger mates because evolutionarily, they were healthier and more capable. I don't suggest that this was the reason that someone initially took a razor to his face--rather, I suggest that it's the reason that this tradition has stuck around. People who shaved were more successful because of the unconscious attraction, and so shaving became the norm.

Now, I'm no scientist, nor anthropologist. I'm pretty much just throwing stuff out there for the sake of discussion. But I don't think that your statements are really appropriate to the post.

Re:shaving is for female interest

[cthulhu11]

women, in general, like men without facial hair. women wear lipstick and high heels
Clearly you don't live around Seattle.

EVERYbody?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Judge scheduled a discovery conference for October 23rd, at 2:30 P.M. and ordered everybody to attend.

Shit, I guess now I have to go clear up my schedule...

Re:EVERYbody?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

the Boston courthouse can only hold so many assholes at one time.
I hear it's already booked solid through the end of the year. I guess you guys are off the hook.

Re:EVERYbody?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

And based on the long discussion above about bathing and shaving, I will be sure to do that before showing up at court :)

Self-defense?

[lawpoop]

I've noticed that a number of these RIAA cases have some people who are choosing to defend themselves. More than I would have imagined. I don't know the specifics of each individual motivation, but I always felt that representing yourself was somehow risky. Perhaps it's lawyers seeking to defend their business by planting the meme that 'a lawyer who represents themself has a fool for a client' -- that you can't separate your emotions from the case well enough to adequately represent yourself? If a lawyer can't represent themself, what hope does a common person have? I can understand representing yourself in a small-claims case, but against a corporation with actual lawyers?

But if common people are representing themselves in cases against the presumably well-financed and well-lawyered RIAA, it gives me some amount of belief that the justice system is ultimately just, or basically fair, and that someone who can present their case in a basic and simple enough manner might actually win. I don't know, maybe I'm getting the wrong idea from these cases, but it gives me hope that if I'm ever summoned to court against a giant corporation, I might actually stand a chance instead of going broke even if I come out a winner.

Does anyone else sense that a surprising number of these cases are being won by people who are defending themself? Why would it be that people are choosing to do so ( are the RIAA cases that easy to knock down ), and is it more than typical for average cases?

Re:Self-defense?

[JustNiz]

Yes people will get screwed if they represent themselves. No the system isn't fair, especially in the USA where lawyers cost a fortune. Thats the reason why people defend themselves. They basically have no choice because they have no money.

Re:Self-defense?

[Paradise Pete]

I've noticed that a number of these RIAA cases have some people who are choosing to defend themselves. More than I would have imagined. I don't know the specifics of each individual motivation, but I always felt that representing yourself was somehow risky.

The trail has been blazed now, and mounting a defense is getting easier and easier thanks to NYCountryLawyer and others. I'd still want to hire a lawyer, but I think in this case not doing so is less risky than usual.

Re:Self-defense?

[Sycraft-fu]

It is risky, but they may feel it is worth it. Can't afford to pay the extortion money, can't afford a lawyer so go for broke. Also if the lose the judgement there is the possibility that the court will consider their financial means and set up a payment plan.

Also the RIAA isn't what I'd call "well lawyered". They may have a lot, but the guys in these cases seem like rookies. They do some DUMB shit. Maybe the first time in the courtroom for some of them. In that case, a smart respondent might not be at such a disadvantage, especially if the judge feels sympathy for them and helps them out a bit in legal matters.

Finally, the RIAA has really, really weak cases here. I know it's civil court and reasonable doubt isn't the standard, but even still. Their evidence is extremely shaky and their declarations full of holes. Still not a great idea to defend yourself, but you aren't up against solid evidence.

Re:Self-defense?

[mcrbids]

But if common people are representing themselves in cases against the presumably well-financed and well-lawyered RIAA, it gives me some amount of belief that the justice system is ultimately just, or basically fair, and that someone who can present their case in a basic and simple enough manner might actually win.

What's important to remember is that the legal system is a political system, not a technical one. When push comes to shove, all the laws, case decisions, and procedures of law boil down to establishing agreement between members of a political body. (EG: a state or jurisdiction)

When people represent themselves, a powerful force comes to play, depending on the judge - that of sympathy.

The judge knows that people who represent themselves are disadvantaged. They are often (usually?) poor or at least, of insufficient means for their current circumstances. They are usually rather ignorant of the nuances of law and established procedure. (which, maddeningly enough, is subtly different for each jurisdiction, even within the same state)

So, you'll typically get one of two reactions from your judge:

1) They either pay no attention to the "pro per" status of the party, typically with a bit of annoyance that "you didn't file form 10-W at least 10 days in advance of the hearing".

2) They bend over backwards to be "fair" as an act of sympathy.

In my experience, here in Butte County, CA USA, where the judges are elected, I've seen a much stronger tendency towards #2 than #1. And, from a position of power, why not feel like the "good guy" when it costs you nothing?

Re:Self-defense?

[Opportunist]

Maybe the idea was "He's defending themselves, so let the rookies take the helm, no need to waste our star lawyer on this one".

Re:Self-defense?

[ScrewMaster]

He's defending themselves, so let the rookies take the helm, no need to waste our star lawyer on this one

Interesting. I didn't know that multiple-personality disorder was an advantage in the courtroom.

Re:Self-defense?

[Opportunist]

"I call my 20 witnesses, who sits over there"

Re:Self-defense?

[NRISecretAgent]

As far as I know, the RIAA has always favored college students. Occasionally they go for someone a little different, like an 8 year old, but for the most part they are going after people who, whether they put the effort into it or not, are probably intelligent enough to put up a fight in law school. They might not be bar material but these tend to be relatively intelligent people, most of them with a high degree of computer literacy who are probably more than capable of finding the pertinent laws somewhere and reading up on them.

They are also at a very social stage of life and probably are rather skilled at public speaking, especially if they are going for some type of business degree. Not only that but they just finished their teenage stint in dating where they tend to spend a decent amount of time around the other's parents are most certainly capable of being respectable to judge.

And lastly... no money tends to motivate people not to lose more quite well =).

As for the rest of the population. The people most likely to download large quantities of music are the people who spend the most time in front of computer, and those people tend to be intelligent and knowledgeable in their own right... Though in some cases they could greatly benefit from the hygiene recommendations that started this thread =).

Re:Self-defense?

[TimeTraveler1884]

In my experience, here in Butte County, CA USA, where the judges are elected, I've seen a much stronger tendency towards #2 than #1. Not surprising, as in neighboring Pea County there is a much stronger tendency towards #1.

Re:Self-defense?

[grayshockley]

Part of the RIAA (nicknamed - by some - RIAA/RICO) is just the simple fact that RIAA/RICO is seen as a bully. RIAA/RICO comes across as the "Karl Rove Business Model" and most folks seem rather repulsed by them. RIAA's victims (notice the flip in who are the victims) seem to be single mothers and children. If you want to put a face on RIAA, Richard "Les" Cheney's seems to be quite fitting.Perhaps and per chance, someone might have a bit of fun digging into /exactly/ what RIAA has been doing and how have they done it. Think of the single mothers and the children; RIAA appears to do so. "It's for the children." RIAA appears to be dealing in a "Richard Nixon Instant Karma" situation. From RIAA's behavior model, it might not take much digging to uncover more dirt than RIAA's "look alike" Robert Murray, has brought out of his Tunnel of Death.

Re:Self-defense?

[BubbaJonBoy]

>> 2) They bend over backwards to be "fair" as an act of sympathy.
Whoa, whoa! We talking about the same animal here? After all a judge ain't nothing but a lawywer with political connections. Seems to me a judge bucking the RIAA lawyers in a bit like a family feud...

Bottom line

[stox]

Since the defendant is Pro Se, the judge forbid the plaintiff from rolling over the defendant on a technicality, and sited another technicality to make sure. This sounds like a great judge, who believes in the spirit and not just the word of the law. I wish we had more like her.

Re:Bottom line

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you a lawyer? No? Then why try to sound like one?

Re:Bottom line

[stox]

No, but if I have my brain removed, I might qualify.

Re:Bottom line

[Threni]

> "Will the people in the cheaper seats clap your hands? All the rest of you, just rattle your jewelry." - John Lennon

"Will the people in the cheaper seats clap your hands? All the rest of us can just rattle our jewelry." - John "working class hero" Lennon

Fixed it.

RIAA is desperate for cash, and bad at math

[SpaceLifeForm]

Bumping up the amount in this case is not even
enough to pay the $68K they owe in an earlier case.

Going from 9 to 41 songs is just bad math.

No big.

[Animats]

This is no big deal. Plaintiff moved for summary judgment prematurely, and the motion was denied. The case is still alive, and the parties have to meet and confer on scheduling and discovery issues. The idea is to take care of any issues on which the parties are not in disagreement before the judge has to deal with them. See Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 16.

Signs of real justice?

[Anonymous Coward]

My word, this is a truly shocking trend.

Somebody defending pro se, and standing a chance? In a US court?

Respect, dear Judge - you are bringing back the meaning of Justice. May many follow your example, but I suspect that will only happen after the law applies to ALL again - with no exceptions at the top (I think it's 200+, and counting)..

Oscillates?

[cheros]

Any particular frequency? (sorry, couldn't resist :-).

Re:Oscillates?

[Teun]

Yep, it looks like it coincides with my pay check.

Re:Oscillates?

[andphi]

Once every six months, approximately.

When did NewYorkCountryLawer buy Slashdot?

[iluvcapra]

Every other day some pro se defendant in a RIAA case fills out a form, it gets a breathess writeup on the front page, and 500 posts within 4 hours.

Re:When did NewYorkCountryLawer buy Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

and 500 posts within 4 hours

Obviously then it is "news for nerds, stuff that matters" to them. Not going to go into details here or look up links to use, just suffice it to say that the RIAA's efforts in both courts and trying to get laws past to fight "music piracy" has a much greater far reaching effect on the internet and technology people then just whether or not the RIAA gets to grab money from "pirates" or not. Furthermore Ray and other lawyers have gained advice and assistance from these articles as well as Ray's legal blog, so in many ways each victory over the RIAA is a victory for many Slashdotters as they have chosen sides on this as well as participated in helping to achieve a portion of those victories as Ray has acknowledged here in the past. ATM, Ray and Slashdot together are about as close to a Groklaw for the RIAA fight as there is.

Now that I have fed the troll a bit, time for me to go feed myself something more bodily nutritious then words.

Re:When did NewYorkCountryLawer buy Slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Visit parent's homepage for some insight into their point of view.

Re:When did NewYorkCountryLawer buy Slashdot?

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

Obviously then it is "news for nerds, stuff that matters" to them. Not going to go into details here or look up links to use, just suffice it to say that the RIAA's efforts in both courts and trying to get laws past to fight "music piracy" has a much greater far reaching effect on the internet and technology people then just whether or not the RIAA gets to grab money from "pirates" or not. Furthermore Ray and other lawyers have gained advice and assistance from these articles as well as Ray's legal blog, so in many ways each victory over the RIAA is a victory for many Slashdotters as they have chosen sides on this as well as participated in helping to achieve a portion of those victories as Ray has acknowledged here in the past. ATM, Ray and Slashdot together are about as close to a Groklaw for the RIAA fight as there is. Thanks.

Point II of the Warner v. Cassin reply brief (at pages 9-10) briefly discusses the impact the RIAA's theories could have on the internet if they were to be accepted by the courts.

Re:When did NewYorkCountryLawer buy Slashdot?

[speaker of the truth]

Its always great to see pro se defendents actually doing good, so thanks for the article. It does help restore some faith in the legal system in a cynical society.

Re:When did NewYorkCountryLawer buy Slashdot?

[Barny]

Blah, bad AC, didn't notice that, got mod points and you would have gotten one if you made the post properly :P

Re:When did NewYorkCountryLawer buy Slashdot?

[NewYorkCountryLawyer]

Its always great to see pro se defendents actually doing good, so thanks for the article. It does help restore some faith in the legal system in a cynical society. Yes, speaker, it was gratifying to see, especially the Judge's realization that the RIAA was trying to pull a fast one by going for 41, rather than 9, songs.

We need to see more rulings like this, where the judge looks out for the interests of the mostly defenseless people that are being dragged into this nightmare.

When is class action lawsuit against RIAA coming ?

[unity100]

huh ? there has piled up enough cases to clearly indicate that they are exploiting justice for personal profit.

OUTCH

[crashelite]

i heard the RIAA was hurting for $$ but over 9 songs? damn i wonder what they would do about the 13k my friend has

Re:OUTCH

[Anonymous Coward]

only 13k eh... poor sod.

should get himself/herself one of these: http://mxchg.com/

Re:OUTCH

[Wiarumas]

...or the thousands of songs that EVERYBODY has. The only result of all these lawsuits is more pissed off customers. Its like a dying action movie moment... the hero (or villian in this case) is going down taking shots left and right, but is still managing to fire his gun in all directions as a last resort to take down as many enemies/customers as he possibly can.

Re:OUTCH

[crashelite]

not to mention innocent bystanders at the same time :)

2 words came to my mind when i read this..

[Anonymous Coward]

Denny Crane.

What about personal preference?

[Anonymous Coward]

I happen to enjoy being smooth shaven, I generally shave every other day. It's less irritating to my skin, and in the humidity of Seoul's summers a beard would drive me nuts (cue pirate joke!!). Plus I'm devillishly handsome, why would I want to cover that up with a beard?
Add to that the fact that eating certain foods in much more difficult with a beard and for me personally, it's a win-win situation to shave.

My independant thought is to shave, yours is to grow your beard. That wasn't so tough, was it?

This isn't the RIAA losing anything

[FreddDredd]

Let's get real - this looks more like the judge handing the defendent a size 15 cluebat to the effect that she needs to get some legal representation urgently. She either doesn't understand the legal niceties and the rules that she *must* play by, or chose to ignore them - and she just dodged a bullet. If the judge hadn't pulled her irons out of the fire this time by pointing to an apparent failure on the RIAA side to follow the rules as well, she'd already be toast.

Re:This isn't the RIAA losing anything

[SomeoneGotMyNick]

Let's get real - this looks more like the judge handing the defendent a size 15 cluebat to the effect that she needs to get some legal representation urgently. Yes, and she needs to hire a full time driver, too. Because she shouldn't be behind the wheel because someone may think she's always doing something illegal while doing her daily driving.

Maybe the judge is well aware of RIAA tactics and initiated the PUBLICLY PRESENTABLE discovery conference. It's one thing he can do to expose the RIAA to some degree without jeopardizing any impartiality.

Re:This isn't the RIAA losing anything

[Anonymous Coward]

And you're an idiot. The legal system was not set up to work the way you and a lot of people seem to think it does. Someone should be able to represent themselves instead of paying thousands of dollars for a lawyer.

In my personal experience lawyers might know more of the specific rules and such but they're not law magicians. Most are pretty stupid actually.

Re:This isn't the RIAA losing anything

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah... I've met a few lawyers myself. They can be really dense sometimes.

someone should go and take pictures

[flyneye]

Someone should go and take pictures of the RIAA people.
That way we could find out more about them.
Maybe make note of some of their personal habits.
Pick up any papers they discard.
Follow them to the parking garage and make note of make,model and tag number.
Fein interest and start a conversation to see what personal info they give up.
Then share it with Slashdot so we can get to know them on a too personal level.
That way we can call or go over some sleepless night and let the RIAA share the publics lack of privacy.Or get sex.Or valuables.Or......

HEEELLLLLLLOOOOOOO!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

GET A LAWYER NOW!!!

not cultural at all, it's completely biological

[circletimessquare]

it's called secondary sexual characteristics. it's a way for mother nature to announce that this person is ready for sex and procreation. women grow breasts, men grow beards. later, the beard grows white, the breasts sag. before puberty, there are no breasts, and there is no beard. this is the way homo sapiens has evolved to tell the other sex that we, as sexually mature pieces of fruit or not are either: not ripe/ too young, ripe/ ready for action, over ripe/ past our prime

these are of course biological communication devices, not overt forms of human-to-human communication. as such, they bypass all of the higher faculties of the brain and communicate at a very primitive level, beyond the person's conscious control. so if one were to consciously manipulate biological sexual cues, they would be manipulating their communication with the opposite sex in a way the opposite sex has no conscious defense against. it's a power play

women wear lipstick and rouge because women (well both men and women) flush in the lips and cheeks when they are sexually aroused. it is a way to manipulate men's interest artificially

likewise, a sexually mature male is threatening to females, because it implies her social interaction with him will be of a sexual agenda, which she doesn't necessarily want. women are more fickle about when they want sex, as they have a more complex reproductive cycle than men, and have more to consider in terms of the implications of sexual activity (ie, having children)

therefore, by shaving your beard, you as a male communicate to a woman's primitive mind that you are nonthreatening sexually. she lets her guard down, and lets you get closer. this is of course a primitive, subconscious manipulation, not an overt verbal one. it's subtle, but it helps, because a woman's first reaction to you upon seeing a beard is automatic sexual aversion if she is sexually uninterested, which with women is usually automatic and most of the time because of her more complex preconditions than men when it comes to sex. unless she is reproductively attached to you, then she might actually prefer a beard, as you are signally your sexual potency to her, which if you are her mate, and she felt comfortable as to her current resources and potential to have children, she would probably desire a beard on you instead

shaving your beard is sort of like a visual castration, neutering and infantilizing yourself in the eyes of women. but that actually works as a psychosexual and social manipulation, because it allows you to get closer to women without them feeling threatened. and since it is only a trick, you are not actually sexually immature, and you buy yourself some time for the woman to get to know you, then you have a leg up on the male competition if the competition doesn't shave

Re:not cultural at all, it's completely biological

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy crap, that explains so much! I always wondered why most girls say I look better clean shaven/5-oclock shadow while my GF strongly prefers me with a few days growth.

Re:not cultural at all, it's completely biological

[rtb61]

Oh Crap. In the 1920 Mr Gillette wanted to get really really rich selling razors, and initiated a marketing campaign to achieve that goal. To imply that human evolution has been driven by what has occurred in the last century is stupid, behaviour driven by mass marketing and obeying the marketing fed to you since birth either directly or indirectly via your parents or peers who are just parroting the marketing B$ they have been fed, points to the gullibility and stupidity of the human race. Fortunately that does not seem to be a barrier to the continued survival of the species, but then again we are only short haired, crested, rock throwing monkeys.

Shaving is for WARRIORS

[dpbsmith]

It has nothing to do directly with sex appeal.

Warriors shave their beard and cut their hair short so that, in hand-to-hand combat, it is hard for opponents to grab their hair.

(Of course, many chicks go for warriors... or the warrior "look.")

Nothing you can't spell will ever work-Will Rogers

[Binkleyz]

"i understand the point of your post, are you trying to be a spelling nazi and pick on the "your" or that the nick "timmarhy" isn't an acurate enough representation of the timmy character from south park (since after all that's what the nick is a tribute to)"

Wow.. So on top of it all, your attempt at a rebuttal also lacks proper capitalization, misspells "accurate", and exhibits an almost complete lack of punctuation marks (making it a really long "run-on" sentence). That, plus the original spelling thing, would tend to indicate a complete disregard for grammar and spelling norms. That doesn't mean that you are stupid, but it does indicate a lack of "attention to detail".

Is it possible that you're trying to make a point with all of this?

you're wrong

[circletimessquare]

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=270997&cid=202 48025

Open to the public?

[PMBjornerud]

I'll reply to you, Ray, since you're working in this field.

These kinds of conferences are open to the public so if you're in or around Boston on that date, there's nothing to stop you showing up at what's guaranteed to be an extremely interesting hearing. October 23 at 2:30 pm?

How many people does usually show up at these hearings? How many people do you need to make the judge and lawyers raise an eyebrow? How many to get on the news?

Seems like plenty of time to get the word out and make people come. Maybe make a few posts around, add it to your calendar and ask slashdot if they have time to come and watch when it draws closer? (Or nobody will remember by the time October arrives)

There are a lot of people reading slashdot, and a lot of people that can get the word out to others. Maybe not as many of the take-to-the-streets-and-demonstrate-types, but I really think that online communities ought to get more involved outside of the net. Every single person attending to show some support for the defendant would be helping.

I live in Europe, so Boston souonds a bit far. But if anything was happening close to here, I'd take some time off and join in to support a good case.

Bah!

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid fucks! When are they going to die? For Christ' sake someone please stick a fork in the RIAA and kill those evil bastards once and for all!

Chewbacca defense

[GuNgA-DiN]

I recommend that she get Jonnie Cochran and bust out the "Chewbacca defense" on their ass:

"But, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, [approaches and softens] does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

people have been shaving

[circletimessquare]

since 3000 BC at least, and in all cultures

your ignorance is deafening

Re:people have been shaving

[rtb61]

On Deaf and dumb one. Actually look at history and prevalent cultures. Actually look at the 18th century outside of the rich and greedy un-noble nobility. Here is why did the un-noble pursued the pre-pubusecent look, veneral deasease, and an absence of morals (want to be sure thaey don't have venereal disease, then take them young). You watchy TV old stuff, only see rich not poor, the majority driver evolution, as for breeding, all pursue the strongest, those that actually have matured, that's why the pubescent hair growth so you can actually tell, fool, moron idiot.

Men shave for female interest?

[phorm]

Not where I'm from. A short bit of facial hair is actually quite nice at concealing small blemishes, adjusting age, or in general filling out ones face or appearing more rugged.

My girlfriend actually likes the way I look with some facial hair, though more of the under-the-nose variety as opposed to the full-face beard. I prefer shaving because beards, and goatees etc, just tend to be itchy, sweaty, and harder to maintain properly. At the moment I'm holding on to some of the fuzz, but we have an agreement that I can shave it in a month or two, which saves me the itchiness and saves her getting facial scratches from coarse face-fur.