Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Crew Ends 100 Day Mars Simulation in Arctic

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the wtb-beer-burger-and-companionship dept.

Paul server guy writes "According to Wired Science the seven person F-XI LDM crew that has been stationed at the Mars Society's FMARS station has completed their unprecedented 100 day simulation. (Actually 101 days, because for 37 they lived on 'Mars time' adding 39 minutes to each day) According to the mission's remote science principal investigator Chris McKay, of NASA Ames. 'Their pioneering simulation of crew operations on Mars time is by far the best work on this topic ever done. It sets the standard for future Mars mission simulations.'"

37 of 147 comments (clear)

  1. OK... by cp.tar · · Score: 4, Funny

    So when do we send people to Mars?

    And do we send politicians first?

    --
    Ignore this signature. By order.
    1. Re:OK... by psychicsword · · Score: 3, Funny

      And do we send politicians first? Only if they don't have a spacesuit on.
    2. Re:OK... by RealGrouchy · · Score: 2, Funny

      So when do we send people to Mars?

      And do we send politicians first? Only of they know how to sanitize telephones.

      - RG>
      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    3. Re:OK... by tazbert · · Score: 5, Funny

      The politicians will be on the second ship, along with the telephone sanitizers, hairdressers, advertising account executives, and other 'essential' personel.

    4. Re:OK... by Rasputin · · Score: 3, Funny

      Homer: All that counts is that we're alive and rubbing elbows with the greats. [gasps] Ooh, there's Ross Perot, Dr. Laura, Spike Lee.

      Bart: Wait a minute, they're not so great.

      Homer: Okay but there's Dan Quayle, Courtney Love, [increasing panic], Tonya Harding, Al Sharpton, Ah! Tom Arnold! What the hell's going on?

      --
      "I once preached peaceful coexistence with Windows. You may laugh at my expense - I deserve it." Be's Jean-Louis Gass
    5. Re:OK... by GweeDo · · Score: 2, Funny

      hairdressers?

      I hate to see what your hair/personal hygiene is like? Are you Alan Cox?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Cox

      --
      Unstable Apps: Our Android Apps Don't Suck
    6. Re:OK... by Propaganda13 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Forget the destruct button, we booked them on Carmack's Armadillo.

  2. Well then by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 3, Funny

    Get your ass to mars.

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  3. Its not a simulation by Viol8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Its a bunch of space nerds wasting their time.

    Why?

    The gravity is wrong.
    The solar radiation is wrong.
    The atmospheric pressure is wrong.
    The soil chemistry is all wrong.

    So what have they proved other than they can sit in a phoney "space base" for 100 days and run around in mickey mouse home made space suits? Nothing.

    1. Re:Its not a simulation by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful


      Think of it more as a psychology experiment than a real space experiment. Maybe you won't be so testy then.

      Of course, if it were a real psychology experiment, they should have at least lived on Mars time the whole time, and not just for a third of it. Makes you wonder why they stopped using Mars time...

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    2. Re:Its not a simulation by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 3, Interesting
      So what have they proved other than they can sit in a phoney "space base" for 100 days and run around in mickey mouse home made space suits? Nothing.

      The true test would be a closed system here on Earth, with only energy input (from the sun or from a nuclear reactor). See if it can function for two years or whatever the required duration of a mission to Mars is without running out of air, water, or nutrient. It doesn't have to be absolutely sealed like Biosphere 2 -- it could exhaust, just not take in, and it doesn't have to be in the same state at the beginning as the end; resources can be depleted. But THAT's the kind of experiment that we should be running.

      -b.

    3. Re:Its not a simulation by ookabooka · · Score: 4, Insightful

      TFA said they used Mars time during the 24-hour sunlight, they simply covered their windows from 8am to 8pm. If they used Mars time continuously sunset/sunrise would slowly shift around and would probably really mess up their circadian rhythm.

      On a side not you are correct that it was more of a psychology experiment, though that wasn't the extent of their goals. They did things like try to figure out ways to minimize their water usage, etc. Basically anything they could simulate and figure out here on earth they did. Now when NASA says "Ok, how are we going to decrease water usage by 10%" they actually have a very well documented simulation to review through and see what works and what doesn't. Basically before this everything was open to conjecture, now we have tangible information to work with, though not 100% accurate to a real mars mission it is better than nothing.

      --
      If you are about to mod me down, keep in mind that this post was most likely sarcastic.
    4. Re:Its not a simulation by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're completely missing the point. It's not about whittling down a pile of celebrities or game show contestants, it's about making sure a group of intelligent people with a common goal of research can exist in the psychological environment they would need to on Mars. Once you've got that major factor nailed down as much as possible, then you can go to the trouble and expense of simulating the other physical variables.

      --
      Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
    5. Re:Its not a simulation by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Informative

      If I think of it as a psychology experiment, I'd get even more testy. Long duration isolation experiments are old hat. Then there is real world experience like crews wintering over in the Antarctic. (Or head over to the US Sub Vets national convention - you'll find guys who have done 100 days submerged by the gross lot.) You have the 'closed loop enviroment/isolation' studies done a decade back by NASA, and you have Biosphere II as an example of how not to do it.
       
      Then there are stunts like 'living on Mars time' - which has already been done (by the Spirit and Opportunity control teams). Why would you do that? Why would you want to force your mission clock 'out of sync' with the local solar clock, except as a stunt?
       
      The simple fact is, the Devon Island station is nothing more than a PR stunt. Driven by Robert Zubrin's ego it has been a multiyear exercise in re-inventing the wheel. TFA is correct when it says 'Their pioneering simulation of crew operations on Mars time is by far the best work on this topic ever done. It sets the standard for future Mars mission simulations.', but what it doesn't tell you is how abysmally *low* that standard is.

    6. Re:Its not a simulation by RockyPersaud · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The value of the experiment is the fact that these seven scientists and engineers DID NOT just sit in a chamber for 100+ days. They conducted real exploration of Devon Island and the Haughton impact crater, under constraints similar to what a crew would have to do on Mars. The gravity is wrong. But they weren't doing physiology experiment on the effect of gravity. The solar radiation is wrong. But they weren't doing solar radiation experiments. The atmospheric pressure is wrong. But they weren't doing atmospheric experiments. The soil chemistry is all wrong. But they weren't doing soil chemistry experiments. They were doing astrobiological, geological, operational, and psychological experiments, as this page lists 22 such experiments. http://www.fmars2007.org/arctic/science-projects.a sp So what has your indignation proved other than they can sit on your ass in front your computer and run mouth off on topics you know nothing about? Nothing.

    7. Re:Its not a simulation by da'+WINS+pimp · · Score: 3, Informative

      Er, sorry I hit send too quick... We stopped the Mars Time experiment when we were one day off of Earth time so that we would not be too far off when the simulation was over.

      --

      "I'm just here to regulate funkyness." - James Gandolfini, as Winston in The Mexican
    8. Re:Its not a simulation by veganboyjosh · · Score: 2, Funny

      From "To catch a predator: Mars edition", to air sometime in the next 15 years:

      Chris Hansen:Who are you here to see?
      Astronaut:Um...Stephanie?
      Chris Hansen:And how old is Stephanie?
      Astronaut:She told me she was 18.
      Chris Hansen:I've got the chat transcripts; wanna try again?
      Astronaut:Oh, you do. She said she was 12.
      Chris Hansen:And how far did you come to meet "Stephanie" this evening?
      Astronaut:Somewhere between 36 million and 250 million miles.
      Chris Hansen:...

  4. Still very far away by JakeD409 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It sets the standard for future Mars mission simulations." The fact that it says "for future Mars mission simulations" instead of just "for Mars missions" shows how far away we really are.

  5. And now that I've read TFA... by cp.tar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Melissa adds that the extra 39 minutes does make a difference, "[you] feel like [you're] getting more work done."

    Wasn't it that the optimal duration of a day for humans is somewhere around 25 or 26 hours?

    I always try to maximize my awake time; as Pitr would say, Sleep, she is for the weak.

    And now for one truly scary detail:

    "We've all become acutely aware of the importance of water conservation, minimizing our garbage output, and generally behaving in a way to minimize our environmental impact."

    Why is this scary? Well, consider this:

    The crew bakes bread, makes a batch of cheese or yogurt, waters the "crops" (spouts and lettuce they are growing), re-fuels the generator, washes a bit of laundry by hand and prepares home cooked meals to add some spice to the day and the meals.

    They're training Fremen!

    --
    Ignore this signature. By order.
  6. Finally they can get back to mom's basement by netsavior · · Score: 4, Funny

    It must have been hard living in a pre-fab environment never seeing the sun and wearing the same clothes for days. Now they can go back to their mom's basement where the conditions will be at least slightly different from a mars mission.

  7. It was a simulation by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Interesting
    A simultation is doing something as close as possible. NASA went through very similar things about going to the moon, and IIRC, it was done in Texas. Even now, every mission to the ISS, is done in water to simulate low gravity. However, if they really WANTED to simulate, they would change a few parameters.
    1. It should last 1-3 years. No way will the first mission to mars be 100 days. It will be several years.
    2. They should be working with biosphere 2 folks to do it again, as a closed experiment. For several years, the system WILL be closed and almost certainly self-reliant.
    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:It was a simulation by Billosaur · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that a preliminary Mars mission profile says that one possible mission is a short stay, 30 to 90 days. Now, you might ask why you'd go all that way and not stay longer, but realize that we'll be landing on a world we've never been to (not counting robotic probes) and while we are confident we understand the environment, we don't know how much conditions on Mars will differ from simulations. It will important for the first mission to be long enough to justify the expense while at the same time short enough that the astronauts can return and impart what they've learned to the colleagues, to allow for better mission planning, simulation, and training.

      The same thing occured with the Moon landings. Neil and Buzz were only on the surface a little over two hours, for the reason that the information they needed to gather in that time was more important than exploration of the Moon's surface and they wanted to ensure that there were sufficient resources available in case of trouble. The first landing on the Moon was a test to ensure that the training and procedures would allow a crew to get down and back up successfully. Mars will be a bigger risk, so landing and then leaving immediately would be expensive and counter-productive, but NASA managers won't want to stay any longer than necessary to minimize the potential risks.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
  8. Re:Oblg Reply by cp.tar · · Score: 4, Funny
    The Spice Must Flow.

    Here, fixed it for you.

    --
    Ignore this signature. By order.
  9. More theory than reality by Joseph1337 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The test probarly produced results known decades ago. The main problem - effects of long human exposure to microgravity are still barley known. It resembles some similiar tests that were conducted , that as it was revealed were fraudy and had little scientific results

    1. Re:More theory than reality by gardyloo · · Score: 2, Funny

      The main problem - effects of long human exposure to microgravity are still barley known. On the other hand, the effects of barley (along with hops) on me are well known, and I like 'em.
  10. Why 37 days? by RealProgrammer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    $ expr \( 37 \* 39 \) / 60
    24
    That's how long it took to lose a day. So when do they get that day back?

    Ha.
    --
    sigs, as if you care.
  11. Soil chemistry? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not like they are supposed to get scientific results back the same as on Mars - part of what they are doing though is living in the same islotation, and working outside in realistic suits just as they would be on mars. They are seeing what works with transportation and tools that can be operated when you have to maintain a reasonable level of isolation from the environment around you. Working the Arctic helps because you are approximating the cold temperatures on Mars.

    As for gravity, it's not like the moon. No it's not as much as Earth but it's still a very solid level of gravity that is comparable.

    What you don't understand about the Mars people is that the end goal is a private mission to Mars - why wait around for the government? And, they have a reasonable plan for doing so with current technology.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  12. Why all the disappointment? by Natros · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can't believe how many people seem to think this was a pointless waste of time. Sure, it's a very limited simulation, but it's a very good proof-of-concept study, and hopefully provided additional data on the psychological stresses that would be placed on a team of astronauts trying to establish an extraterrestrial base. By all means, they should incorporate more variables (true self-sufficiency, extended duration, etc) in future studies, but let's applaud an effort to study the human factors involved in space exploration.

    --
    Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?
  13. Not much point if you can't get there -- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    No one knows how to land anything big enough on Mars anyway

  14. One way mars mission? by eniac42 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sadly, its going to be a long long time before it happens for real. Zubrins "Mars Direct" plan http://www.cbqc.net/mars/docs/md_reno.txt is the best one using current tech - but it has so many possible ways it can fail that it will not be picked up by todays ultra risk-adverse space admins. The biggest mistake NASA ever made was to ditch the Saturn 5 and 1b systems that took Apollo to the moon - the Skylabs sent up with the later Apollos already did most of the usedful research being being replicated by the overpriced ISS, and they had designs in the pipeline for long term moon-bases, all using Sat5 boosters. Ironically, ditching Apollo never saved the money Nixon thought it would, and yet set manned exploration back 50 years (2019 is about "return to moon" time). Zubrins "Direct to Mars" plan uses two Sat 5 sized launchers for a 3 year round trip Mars mission.

    Because of the logistical problems of a manned mars round trip, someone actually preposed we should find volenteers for a one way trip!! Seriously, just find devoted (and perhaps older) individuals who would risk going to stay - maybe with the promise of a return vessel being sent a few years down the line (A.K.A. 2001).

    Any volenteers?

    --
    "A nation that forgets its past is doomed to repeat it." - Churchill
  15. 1903 version of Slashdot... by TED+Vinson · · Score: 5, Funny
    Bunch of Slashdotters scoffing at the Wright Brothers' so-called 'manned flight' experiments.

    "Their [sic] waisting [sic] there [sic] time!"

    "Amusing, but you'll never be able to get across the Atlantic using wings. Airships are the future!"

    "We should be putting this effort into improving the proven technology of steam locomotives."

    "Imagine a Beowulf Cluster of those!"

    "I for one welcome welcome our new internal combustion powered, heavier than air overlords!"

  16. obligatory... by whopub · · Score: 2, Funny

    The fact that it says "for future Mars mission simulations" instead of just "for Mars missions" shows how far away we really are. True. Especially if you consider they simulated the moon landings so thoroughly and then ended up not going there...

    *ducks for cover*
  17. I wonder which crew member got voted out first. by timias1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder which one is the: Bitch, Naive Girl-Next-Door, Surfer Dude, Homosexual, Playa, Joe Schmoe, Drama Queen

  18. 1000 days - Mars Ocean Odyssey by slashmojo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is a couple currently on a somewhat related venture.. they plan to spend 1000 days at sea in a yacht, completely self sufficient and never touching dry land for the duration.

    So far they are on day 121 and have had some 'fun' already - a collision with a freighter for example caused some significant damage which had to be repaired at sea.

    The idea obviously is to (kind of) simulate a very long space journey where the crew have only themselves and what they can carry to depend on.

    There are a few notable differences though such as the lack of fish to catch in space. ;)

    You can follow their journey here..

    http://1000days.net/home/

    Looks like a great adventure anyway.. wish I could take 1000 days off work!

  19. Why on Earth... by eno2001 · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...would they choose to simulate Mars in someone's attic. Most simulations of this kind are much better performed in the basement of one's parent's house.

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  20. Re:Averting disaster by lysdexia · · Score: 2, Funny

    She can stay in my habitat.

  21. Problem Solved by mooterSkooter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "But while the Apollo lunar lander weighed approximately 10 metric tons, a human mission to Mars will require three to six times that mass, given the restraints of staying on the planet for a year. Landing a payload that heavy on Mars is currently impossible, using our existing capabilities" Well, I see a simple solution; Build a spacecraft that splits into several separate parts (of approximately "10 metric tons") before entry! Problem solved.