Sony to Add TV Tuner, DVR to PS3

pjhenley writes "Sony has announced that they will add digital TV and DVR capabilities to the PS3 in Europe. TV can also be watched on a PSP using 'remote play' over WiFi or via downloaded recordings. 'The new box will feature two 1080p tuners, which utilize the European Digital Video Broadcasting system (DVB-T) -- which should dash any US hopes for the time being. The system will allow you to store recorded broadcasts on your PS3 drive, and also transcode and transfer the saved files to your PSP.'"

Comments

Before anyone starts to complain

[MemoryDragon]

We europeans pay around 700-900 USD for the PS3

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[Rosyna]

We europeans pay around 700-900 USD for the PS3 Before you start complaining about the US price vs the European prices, always remember to remove the VAT from the European prices. Why can't Europeans bother to remember such a simple thing? List prices in the US do not include tax.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[Anonymous Coward]

i dont know about the US, but in europe the VAT isnt 50% (comparing the $599 and up to $900 prices). the $700 would be closer, since VAT here (holland) is 19%, which would be close to the 17% the $700 price represents

but as for US VATs, what are normal VAT rates? wikipedia suggest between 0-9.75%, typically 8.5%

which still ends up being less then half the VAT of what we pay here, so we still get screwed

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[Midnight Thunder]

We europeans pay around 700-900 USD for the PS3

Before you start complaining about the US price vs the European prices, always remember to remove the VAT from the European prices. Why can't Europeans bother to remember such a simple thing? List prices in the US do not include tax.

Fair enough, but taking the highest state sales tax and the price of PS3 we top out at $535 USD max. This is still much cheaper than what you get in Europe.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[iapetus]

Sales tax isn't applied until it gets to the consumer. VAT is applied at each exchange.

But can be claimed back by VAT registered companies, so it all works out the same in the end.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[Calinous]

VAT is a value ADDED tax - it is applied at each step, but only on the Added Value. If I buy hard drives for $100 a piece (including VAT), and sell them for $150 a piece, I pay VAT to the one from where I bought them (assume 19% VAT, I pay about $100 * 0.19/1.19 = $16), and the one who bought them from me pays $150 * 0.19/1.19 as VAT ($24). Now, the VAT I get ($24) is returned to the original seller ($16 of the $24), and the rest ($8) is the Value Added Tax I pay in the end to the state.

      Now, some times ago, before the VAT was applied, there was a Tax on Goods Distribution which was applied on every exchange - it was in the 3% range, but it added quickly from original manufacturer to the consumer.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[Mr_Silver]

Before you start complaining about the US price vs the European prices, always remember to remove the VAT from the European prices. Why can't Europeans bother to remember such a simple thing? List prices in the US do not include tax.

Fair point but Amazon is offering the PS3 60GB version for $499 in the USA and £399 in the UK.

Take 17.5% off £399 and you get roughly £340 which, according to xe.com, is $683.

You're looking at $680 vs $499 for exactly the same product - even without the VAT, we have every right to still complain.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[Skapare]

You should be paying Euros for the PS3, not USD.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[gravis777]

There is no VAT in the US, its Sales tax, and the reason it varies from area to area, from 0-9.75% is because its not a federal tax, but is set by the state, and in some cases the county or city will add to it. For example, large Native American areas will have 0% sales tax on items. In the area of Texas I live in, the sales tax is 8.25% (varies when I go from one city to the next, typically between 8-8.75%).

While at first, that may sound lower, the difference is that VAT is added into the sales price, Sales Tax is not. Therefore, while the unit is $699 in the store, you then add on top of that the 8.25% sales tax. This, in my area, brought the total of the PS3 to $756.67 Of course, the advertised price is $699. Very few places in the US add tax to their advertised prices, i think the exception is when advertising gasoline prices, and a few mom and pop stores.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[brendan0powers]

That and the fact that sales tax varies wildly from one place to the next. For example where i live in New Hampshire, there is no sales tax. People know the tax in their aria and buy accordingly.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[hansg]

And that's just weird to me as a European (if there is such a thing, I'm Swedish, never really think of myself as European).

Including the VAT in the list price makes more sense to me, at least for consumer goods.
Then I know what I have to pay. /Hans

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[gravis777]

Fair point, but I think you are forgetting something - you are comparing the prices based on if you are an American trying to buy a product in the UK, in which case the exchange rate would be against you. You are a UK citizen making a UK salary paying UK prices. I am willing to bet that when you figure in your income in GBP versus the same person with the same job in the US making USD, and then what you are paying for the PS3, it comes out to be about the same. You are not being screwed, the reason the exchange is like that is that the British pound is stronger than the US Dollar.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[Sj0]

To be fair, I have not heard many reports of people owning a PS3.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[meringuoid]

Fair point, but I think you are forgetting something - you are comparing the prices based on if you are an American trying to buy a product in the UK, in which case the exchange rate would be against you.

The exchange rate that ought to be of interest here is that against the yen, Sony being a Japanese firm. If the dollar is unusually strong against the yen at a time while the pound is weak, then we should expect Americans to get a good deal and Britons to get a poor one. But the contrary is true: at present the dollar is weak and the pound is very strong. If anything, the PS3 should be substantially cheaper in Britain.

The truth is that Sony will charge whatever the market will pay, and the market in Britain is well-known for its tolerance for blatant rip-offs.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[KDR_11k]

Actually it's not the same product, the PAL version comes with two games and an extra controller which were added instead of a price drop.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

[Zeussy]

That is why it is called Rip-Off Britain

What's this about!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

We're the US, the greatest country on Earth!

Why aren't we getting it first?

Re:What's this about!!!

[LWATCDR]

Simple. Because of CableCard not really being a standard.
Sony doesn't want to have another sales disappointment in the US. People will just get their DVR from there CATV if they want one that will just work however feature limited it may be. For those that want more features and are willing to do the work to get it working then TiVO will be the product of choice.
Too bad really. This combined with a PSP is pretty cool. You could watch TV anywhere in your home even out in your garden/backyard and tanscode it for your PSP.

I keep thinking that Microsoft is working with the cable companies to bring the same functionality to the 360/Zune.

Re:What's this about!!!

[Frenchy_2001]

We're the US, the greatest country on Earth!
Why aren't we getting it first?

I know you said that i jest, but there is a reason: Europe is much further along in its conversion to digital TV (including HDTV) and the tuner they use in a DVB-T, the european norm.
US use the ATSC norm for over the air digital broadcast and penetration is not nearly as good.

Although, on this one, your are getting f***ed quite deeply ;)

I gotta say

[Pojut]

I love the PS3 for all of it's capabilities (especially since I also have a PSP) I think it's a very well built, very well designed machine that has a lot of potential. It's non-gaming feature list is extensive and USEFUL.

So why do I still very much prefer my 360 over my PS3?

Games. The fucking games.

Come on Sony. We all know that it's a powerful beast of a machine, we know it can do a lot of cool shit...but how about investing in some more quality GAMES? My 360 gets FAR more playtime than my PS3...why?

BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO PLAY, SONY.

Re:I gotta say

[GeckoX]

Yes, but we're just coming into the first real release season for the PS3. Over the next year that will change. People conveniently forget just how long the 360 has already been out for, and that many xBox games were released on the 360 instead of the xbox. Sony has NEVER had a lot of games out in the first year for a new console. Those that know this know that waiting another 6 months to a year will result in likely a cheaper console purchase, and more game options...and in the meantime, thoroughly enjoying the last and best games to be released on the PS2. (End of console lifecycle games are traditionally the best on sony consoles)

Now, if there aren't lots of quality games to choose from by this time next year, there will be problems without a doubt.

Re:I gotta say

[Pojut]

See, that's just the thing though....look at what is coming to 360 or 360/PC in the next year (I'm including BioShock in that which, by the way, is one of the best games ever made)

Now look at what is coming to the PS3 in the next year.

I gotta say, just looking at what is on the schedule to be released in the next year, unless something unannounced comes out, it appears my 360 will continue to be putting in overtime while my PS3 takes vacations for months at a time...

Re:I gotta say

[*weasel]

Saying things might change in the future just doesn't matter. If it -does- turn around, it can be re-evaluated whenever that -actually- happens.

And odds are by the PS3 makes sense, it'll be cheaper to have bought a 360 or wii today and a PS3 then, rather than buy a PS3 today and twiddle your thumbs in the interim. Gamers like games. They don't gain anything by denying themselves games in some odd form of platform loyalty.

That whole 'fan' thing is just silly.
It used to be XBox fans defending claims that their console has a worse selection of games with lines like:
'but it's more powerful!'
'b-b-but A/V quality'
'its doing better than the PS2 did at the same point in its release!'
and
'just wait until A and B killer titles release'

And now it's almost perfectly reversed.
Proving once again that people who talk about platforms and potential rather than games are only useful as comic relief.

Re:I gotta say

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

"Unfortunately, with the exception of so few games I could count them on one hand, the 360 (for me anyway) is "winning" this generation hands down..."

The 360 has been out over a year longer than the Wii and yet the Wii has passed it in console sales. The first party games Nintendo is offering for the Wii (and the ones about to come out this holiday season) are their BIG games. Mario Kart, Metroid, Mario Galaxy.. Nintendo's going to start pulling away and it's not just because of their lower price or the games they're offering. It's because Sony dropped the ball and had that "They'll buy it even if has no games" attitude. And because both Sony and Microsoft had the "People want a media center first and a gaming console second" attitude. Nintendo had the "People want to play fun games and don't want to have to take out a loan to do so" attitude and they're winning.

The only big exclusive title the 360 can offer is Halo, which isn't even a very good shooter. The PS3 has a few exclusives but from what I've heard from even the big Sony fanboys is that they're only "OK"

Re:I gotta say

[kidgenius]

Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid, LittleBigPlanet, Killzone, Ratchet and Clank, and Haze. That's a variety of games, other than just shooters that are coming in the next year. Other than that, most of the stuff that is highly anticipated is coming out on BOTH systems (COD4, Burnout, Need for Speed), plus don't forget that Final Fantasy is huge for the Playstation.

Re:I gotta say

[DrXym]

I got my PS3 at the EU launch and I really haven't had problems finding things to do with it. PS3 retail games might have been slow coming but there are some decent titles to play and the drought is basically over. Aside from that it can play PS2 titles, PSN titles (Super Stardust HD is awesome), DVDs, Blu Ray, ripped movies etc. so I've used it for that as well as Linux. Most mornings my 2 year old kid wants to see a DVD so I've ripped a pile for him to pick from. I can see that if someone only used it for PS3 titles they're going to get bored but there is plenty of stuff to be doing otherwise to justify its existence.

Re:I gotta say

[bateleur]

Nintendo had the "People want to play fun games and don't want to have to take out a loan to do so" attitude and they're winning.

At least, they are if you're an investor.

From a gamer's perspective, I'm a bit puzzled by the way everyone seems to love console wars. Personally I dislike exclusives. If they're on a console I own that leaves some of my friends unable to share in my enjoyment of the game. If they're on a console I don't own that's just annoying.

The Wii's great for gaming in general, because it reminds people in the industry that actual gameplay matters. Unfortunately there are downsides too - by making what would once have been a custom peripheral into the standard controller, Nintendo ensure that most Wii games will never appear on other platforms. That's bad news for game studios, because it means less revenue per title. And anything that reduces the profitability of titles is ultimately bad for gamers too.

But there is one lesson I really, really hope the other manufacturers take away from the Wii's success: keep the costs down!

Re:I gotta say

[flitty]

If history repeats itself, the most powerful, and expensive system that was later out of the gate with only one or two strong exclusives will stay second on the charts throughout it's generation, even if the price does come down to match it's competition (remember the $200, then $150 price cuts of the ps2 and xbox?). Even if it gets more exclusives that are considered "better" games, they have to come early in the life of the console, or else they don't really matter.

The reason why the ps2 did so well was the wealth of titles, good or bad, that you could choose from, now, the wii is starting to take the casual gamer away from the ps2 (which most people who bought one were casual), and the 360 is picking up the slack with more games. the 360 has better exclusives at this point (mmm, wish i was home playing Bioshock right now), and the "holiday titles" of the ps3 are coming out with mediocre reviews at best. Sony is in trouble, and they know it, just go to sonydefenseforce.com if you want a laugh about how bad it is for them.

Re:I gotta say

[MBraynard]

There are two flaws with your evaluation. I can't believe you got modded 5.

First, you don't buy games based on the percentage of all games that are over 80, you buy games that are over 80 (assuming that means good). So 360 has the most games over 80 - 3 times as many as PS3.

As a more complicated evaluation, you should not necessarily include cross platform in evaluating 360/PS3 unless there is a substantial difference in the games. This is what is bringing the 360 down - the cross platforms average higher than 80 - so if you remove them, PS3 will have even less games over 80 and possibly a lower percentage over 80.

The crux of this is the number matters, not the percentage. There was a massive amount of shovelware for the PS1/PS2 - remember? But that didn't detract from GTA, etc.

The reasoning

[Anonymous Coward]

Being a half-assed blu-ray player is not enough to convince people to buy a PS3 so now they're trying to make it a half-assed Tivo too.

Re:The reasoning

[91degrees]

There aren't actually a lot of good PVRs available in Europe. A half-assed Tivo would probably make it one of the best.

Re:The reasoning

[Highroller]

It's an awesome Blu-ray player and looks amazing on a HD television. Do yourself a favor a check one out at the store before you pass judgement.

It will be crippled

[La Gris]

Be sure it will be crippled so channels not willing to let your record or transmit via network will be blocked for that.

I just ordered a DreamBox DM7025 (waiting for it in 2 to 3 weeks) with two DVB-S (satellite) tuners. This one run with VDR and Linux. It can't do HD video but, well there are so few or interrestings ones in here...
And the DreamBox is will not block anything. If I can view a channel, I can record and broadcast it to my LAN via standard protocols and codecs to use with VideoLan.

Blame it on comcast...

[cybrthng]

They dash any hopes of this happening :(

CableCard addons could have worked but comcast would have to certify the whole PS3 video recording "chain" and that would take so long the product would never reach the consumer in time for it to make a difference.

PS3 or not, i wish more devices could have DVR functionality. I want consumer cablecard in my MediaCenter/360 combination as well but that won't happen unless i re-buy my media center and bullocks to that! I also don't want Comcast flagging my content either.

OTA FTW

So what is the PS3 again?

[Yvan256]

We keep hearing Sony about how the PS3 is the best game system, but so far the only arguments we hear are that it's a Blu-Ray movie player, a Linux computer and now it's also a PVR. Mind you, if the american PS3 had a PVR to begin with, maybe it wouldn't seem too expensive.

Even as a non-Sony fanboy (I'm a Nintendo fanboy), I do wish Blu-Ray wins against HD-DVD, if only because this isn't a Sony-only attempt at pushing their own crap (Memory Stick, miniDisc, ATRAC, etc) but it's even better than HD-DVD in capacity (especially future potential capacity).

And next week...

[downix]

Sony just keeps addng feature after feature. What's next, a coffee brewer to allow you to keep playing without getting up for your caffine fix?

Re:And next week...

[superstick58]

I think they need to add the Sony CD so that high quality sound and video can be played on the console. Then they can add the PS32X to increase the processing power. Then they can announce that game development for both accessories will halt in about a year after the release and you will be stuck for decades with a monster created of multiple esoteric parts and expansions that completely hide the original machine.

I'm going to go play some games on my Sega Genesis/32X/CD. Ah the simple days when a console was a console.

US doesn't have real standard yet?

[amigabill]

While we've heard a lot about cablecards and cablecard2's and mcards, the Tivo-HD compatibility problems show that we in the USA don't have a good standard yet. It works in some places but not in others. Would Sony face the same problem? Are they just avoiding this fiasco until there's a better guarantee that their tuners will actually work for all buyers in America? How is it that Europe gets better defined standards to work with (GSM, DVB) to ensure compatibility while we in America are rolling the dice with cablecards without knowing if we have the switched video stuff or not that might prevent my cablecard device from working? Or that vastly reduces choice in what phones I can use on my cellphone network?

Re:US doesn't have real standard yet?

[Captain_Chaos]

How is it that Europe gets better defined standards to work with (GSM, DVB) to ensure compatibility while we in America are rolling the dice with cablecards without knowing if we have the switched video stuff or not that might prevent my cablecard device from working? Or that vastly reduces choice in what phones I can use on my cellphone network?

I'm actually really interested in whether anyone has some genuine insight into that, as I've often wondered the same thing myself. Why is it that the US, which is one country, apparently has so much more trouble to deploy some decent standards than Europe, which is a pretty loosely held together bunch of countries which couldn't be more different from each other?

Re:US doesn't have real standard yet?

[dan the person]

Why is it that the US, which is one country, apparently has so much more trouble to deploy some decent standards than Europe, which is a pretty loosely held together bunch of countries which couldn't be more different from each other?

Because the EU isn't afraid to regulate when the market fails its citizens?

it slices, it dices

[conspirator57]

it prepares food ten different ways! Don't forget, we just added the kitchen sink!

Seriously, though. I like having discrete devices because stuff breaks and I like to:
1. amortize the impact (cost, etc.) of a breakage by having less expensive components
2. get components that do fewer things, but do them better
3. have a DVD on while playing a game. PiP, you know.
and several other reasons i'm forgetting just now.

In the UK you'll need a TV license

[giafly]

Sony has announced that they will add digital TV and DVR capabilities to the PS3 in Europe

The law requires everyone, including students, to be covered by a licence if they use any device to receive television programmes as they're being shown on TV. This includes any TV set, DVD or video recorder, digital box, PC, laptop or mobile phone - TV Licensing

I expect Slashdotters to reply along the lines of "but I won't use my PS3 to watch TV so I don't need a license". Tell it to the judge, guys, when you get prosecuted.

Emacs!

[alph0ns3]

It seems like the PS3 is the new Emacs: It's a good all-around computer, the only thing missing is good games!

Re:Maybe Europe is different...

[Goth Biker Babe]

Here, in the UK, we have free terrestrial digital television [1]. I get about 30 channels of TV (DVB-T PAL resolution) and 40 of audio through my antenna. In a year or so analogue will be turned off so all new TVs come with digital receivers. There are also unencrypted free channels on satellite (DVB-S PAL and HD). I'm not sure how many right now but it must be nearing 100 odd [2]

So yes this isn't useful for premium services and pay per view where the broadcaster insists on a secure path but there is an awful lot of programming out there which is free and can be recorded.

[1] http://www.freeview.co.uk/home
[2] http://www.astra2d.com/freesat-epg.htm

Just wait...

[DesertBlade]

Until the release the price point. Sure it may be worth it at $700-$00 but is it worth it at $1500? And I wouldn't be surrised if there was a monthly fee to use the feature. That is where the money is at, reaccuring fees.

"sony" -- Webstr explains

[maztuhblastah]

sony - v.

1. To anger one's customer base in a flagrant manner. Ex: "2KGames really Sonyed us with that SecuROM stuff."

2. To desperately seek relevance in a market in which your success is dwindling. Ex: "Did you hear that Sony's going to add a TV Tuner and DVR to the PS3?"
 

Re:Company comparison

[GammaKitsune]

Try Nintendo. And don't hold your breath for an iGame. Even if it did come out, it would no doubt go the way of the N-Gage. Apple and gaming have never gotten along.

Re:almost worth the price

[Kjella]

Umm... you didn't think the dual-1080p tuners would magically grow out of your PS3 do you? It will be an add-on, knowing Sony an expensive one at that. Very impressive all the same though, but you gotta wonder how much 1080p programming you'll fit on the PS3 HDD. I'd sure want to hook up a 500GB external or so.

Re:The PS3 what's that?

[TheRaven64]

Inferior Bluray player? Just about every review of the PS3 movie playback has said it's the best BluRay player on the market When the PS2 came out, every review I read said that DVD playback was inferior to even cheap stand-alone players (cheap being a relative term at this point). I suspect that a lot of criticisms of the PS3's BD playback come from taking this single data point and extrapolating to the latest generation.

Re:Why 1080p?

[tmarklund]

I was under the impression that the receivers didn't handle 1080p, since no receiver has ever claimed it in the specs.
However, when I now look at one of the specs for one set-top box, it says "MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 HP@L4" which would mean it could support 1920x1080 in 30 fps at max 25 Mbps if I read Wikipedia correctly. But it would output it in 1080i probably.
So probably I was wrong then.

Re:The PS3 what's that?

[cplusplus]

Don't you get it? This is not so much about games anymore. Whoever wins this round will be the dominant force in media entertainment during the next round. HD-DVD/BluRay are probably the last generation of media for home rental. The world is moving toward on-demand and downloadable content. Microsoft and Sony want to be firmly entrenched in your living room when it really takes off. I, for one, love renting HD movies via Xbox Live.