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Bulletproof Tool For Golden Age Browsing?
An anonymous reader writes "I work in a retirement/assisted living home. Many of the residents had never used the Internet but really find it fascinating once they are given a little training. However, I've stopped introducing it to them because of the drain it puts on me. There are a million and one things that a computer novice can screw up, and I don't have time to solve all of them. These folks don't need any sophistication. and they need only the most basic options. Adjustable text size would be nice, but otherwise — no email, no word processing or editing, no printing — just Internet browsing. This may not seem like a big market, but it's getting bigger every day! Is there an absolutely fool-proof device that can provide this without requiring virus scanners and constant attention?"
Before I dive in, I have to say that I don't think you adequately explained the requirements here. In one part you seem concerned about configuration, in another you seem concerned about security & finally it seems to come down to being too sophisticated for the user.
... well, in some cases degenerated minds. I don't say that to be mean but ironically my four year old cousin and my 80 year old grandfather have some of the same needs when it comes to high tech gadgets.
:). Granted, this may violate your sophistication requirement (and destroy caching), it has the huge benefit of going "Oooops, time to simply reboot."
I'm not sure which one you value the most. But, assuming we need all three, I would suggest something like the OLPC as an everything. Yes, it's geared for children but I guess you're kind of dealing with
One step up from that would be to use a premade Live CD of Ubuntu or Dragonfly or some other easy live Linux OS. You show them how to reboot with it and then they can surf like that. The downside is they can't save anything to disk but the upside is they can't save anything to disk
You know, the last college I attended had labs where you had administrative privileges but they reverted to a system restore point nightly. As a result, there would be screwed up machines but only for a day or week at most.
But, if we assume you don't want to reboot with a live CD of the OLPC or Ubuntu, you could instead simply turn off cookies & turn off javascript. Why? Because javascript is the devil. I think it has some of the most flawed type casting (if I can call it that) out there today. It's not a "type safe" language. And the proliferation of JSON objects in Javascript is frightening. But once you eliminate cookies & javascript, you also eliminate a lot of functionality.
I would suggest giving them the flash plugin (pending system requirements) as it's not so bad anymore. That and they'll probably want to watch YouTube videos of their offspring. I think that is a fair trade being as the latest Flash plugin is fairly secure.
So, I would finally recommend you give them plain jane mozilla firefox with no javascript or cookies & the flash plugin. It probably wouldn't hurt to jack the security meter up to the top and just tell them that sites they can't access are bad sites anyways.
Once again, I could use more requirements before giving you a final assessment but the above two options sound like they would come pretty close to satisfying your (and their) needs. These were made under the assumptions that these people suffer from learning disabilities in their old age and, as a result, you cannot host training sessions whereby you show them safe & secure internet usage.
In the end, I predict that some of the users are going to find a way to make it hard for you and them. I suggest starting with the lightest steps and only progressing forward as necessary.
My work here is dung.
Man, you should know better than to ask a question like that on Slashdot. The Mac guys will say to use a Mac, and the Linux guys will say to use Linux. And then the Windows guys will complain about bias. Just watch =)
It's called a Nintendo Wii. Turn it on, browse awhile, zoom in, zoom out and turn it off.
F11 in Firefox goes to full screen mode. Lots less to mess up.
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
Just use machines with a decent amount of RAM,like a full gig, an optical drive, and one of the mini linux distros like damn small. No hard drive needed. About as simple to do as anything and un-hosable.
Check out the VMWare browser applicance... basically a disposable OS with browser in a vmware image. If it gets broken, just create another copy - no need to worry about the base system getting hammered with crap.
VMWare Player is free - have at it!
5468652047616D65
This seems like a no-brainer to me. You don't even need a window manager, although there are some minimalist ones that will do the trick for things like the preferences window, etc. Firefox has font-size adjustment, so that's not a problem, and you can theme gtk to be high contrast with large font sizes in the menu, etc.
Why make life difficult on yourself?
show them lemonparty. They won't be interested any more. (then again, maybe they will).
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Get a Damn Small Linux CD.
Boot off CD, to RAM if possible, and enjoy the internet.
100% worry free computer usage.
If they want the computer to do more than just the internet, tell
them the instructions are available, on the internet. Have fun.
Try Opera on Linux. You get full resizing (of both text and images) with single buttons (plus and minus, no modifiers needed). With Linux you can put work into locking down everything else, so e.g. you can only have a single, full-screen version of Opera running.
Dlugar
Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
http://www.opera.com/support/mastering/kiosk/
Designed to be used at public terminals. Bonus points for installing it on Linux.
Software is the answer. http://pcwin.com/popular/Lock_xp_kiosk-1.htm Or the Microsoft way http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555463/en-us
- Gentoo Linux(minimum system means less things can be broken and less security updates required)
- ssh (for remote administration)
- xorg
- Firefox( I think there is a kiosk mode addon, and you'll have to install security updates every couple of weeks)
- dwm (remove the status bar and add rules to tag all firefox window the same)
and run it all as a user with only read/write permission to firefox's cache.
You can't disable javascript because so many websites stupidly depend on it.
I've seen some sites that don't display anything if javascript is disabled.
- Jesse McNelis
...and that is all I have to say about that.
http://jessta.id.au
Write a simple program that calls off to their favorite sites and prints them out. Then give them paper version of what they like.
Then they can pass it around, etc. Sort of like bookmark sharing.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
I know, gonna get ripped, but what the hell...
set up a pretty decent single computer (running linux of course) and hook several terminals to it. have them either boot up like LTSP or do a small install and get X remotely. they could log in and you can set up what apps they have access to. if they aren'[t computer literate, they won't know firefox on linux from firefox on XP. and it's a bit safer, I'd wager.
or, remoce (or just unplug) the hard drives and give them boto cd's like ubuntu. or just leve the cd's in the drive. you can make a custom ubuntu cd which has only basic browsing, plus can already be set up for proxies, etc.
either way, it's gonna be hard to mess up the system. that's my $0.02. more work up front, far less down the road.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
I believe someone already has done something like this with Linux, called "Cl33n Linux" http://cl33n.com/index.html It allows browsing and only uses Web Applications and Web Mail if the user wants to do some other type of work. Although it doesn't include Flash, you might be able to include that in a variation. Then install it in kiosks. Hope this helps you in your search. The only other options would be Internet Appliances, such as Compaq's old IA or WebTV.
I find it hard to believe that this guy needs to ask the question and never heard of Kiosks or Live CDs.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Aside from the large text size requirement, this sounds really similar to something that Jamie Zawinski (http://jwz.org) did for the DNA Lounge kiosks -- a set of diskless linux systems that all network boot from a central NFS server, and are easily resettable. (Sounds like quite a weekend to set up, though.)
Run Mac OSX. set it to the simple finder mode. There you can lock out all applicatons you don't want them to have. They cannot edit the icons in the dock so what they see is what they get (and they can't accidentally delete them either). And finally if ALL you really want is Browser, you can put it in kiosk mode and even have it boot that way. SO all it is is a browser, up and running when you snap on the machine.
Now if you are budget minded you could do the same with Linux. Use a Live CD, configure it to boot to a browser. Remove all the other icons and don't give them permission to the apps. One of the very easiest ones to configure this way is DSL linux which has the benefit of booting very very very fast from CD and running on old, memory starved hardware, and being parcimonous about screen realestate. However, for you i'd recomend DSL-N (not DSL) as that is more modern.
If you are not budget minded, it would be smarter to go with the mac. several reasons
1) lots of plugins will be easier to use. likepdf support in the browser itself, (flash quicktime silverlight....)
2) some folks there might want a real computer too. The liveCD linux boot will be constraining. Macs, have faster user switching so you can corral the people who need the simple finder but let other use it in advanced mode.
3) Eventually they may want to add a few more apps. maybe they want for example to have podcasts. google earth. Watch DVDs
4) you can keep a mac secure without going crazy. You can even firmware lock it to keep the wiseguys at bay.
5) it's easier to attach portable disks, second or external screens, cameras, etc... to the mac. No sys admin needed.
6) If you need support you can call apple and so can they if you are not around.
7) For desktops there are no cables and they are easy to adjust to viewing angles (like for a wheel chair)
8) easier to use applications, should they want them.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Oh and the other biggy on a mac is the meu bar is a the top of the screen and the ability to use a one button mouse. Both of those are a LOT better for your old folks. It has the handicapped access modes too (locking shift keys, high contrast views, zoomable)
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
As every poster has pointed out, you can rock-solid a computer with Kiosk modes, virtual machines, etc, etc. But if you're going to put a tool like the Internet into the hands of (shall we say) "unskilled" users, you have a responsibility to protect them from the baddies.
Before anyone gets on the computer for the first time, drill some basic saftey tips into them. Do not give out passwords. Do not give out personal data. Do not give out financial data. Not to anyone, no matter how legit it looks. For many, this is probably their first experience on the internet. You cannot take for granted that they have been ingrained with The Basics. They don't know about Phishing. They don't know people can make a website that looks exactly like their banks' website. They don't know about Nigeran princes. Their bases have only every belonged to them.
Print out some Golden Rules, and post them in the computer lab/common area/whatever. If the computers are going to be in the resident's apartments, make sure you print out something that can be stuck to the monitory.
Send them out to play, but not in traffic.
You can do some things behind the scenes as well. Route everything through a gateway you control. Make sure you have some good security on it. Go grab PeerGuardian's list, and maybe mvps.org's host file. Keep it up to date so that it blocks all the well known phishing sites. Concider blocking any outbound request for an IP address (rather than an URL). Run a mail server with a kickass spam filter, and give them all their own email boxes. (grandpaAbe@shadyacres.com). It also makes it easier to whitelist their friends&family email addresses to let legit attachments through.
Try running guided tours of the Internet. Don't just pluck them down and say "here you go". Show them good places to go, and how to get there. News sites. Wikipedia. National Geographic's site. Typing Tutor sites. Maybe some instructional courses: How to use Flickr to view and post family albums. How to edit a Wikipedia article about the hometown they grew up in (and know everything about... preserve the knowledge!)
Do this right, and not only will you have safe comptuers-- but you'll also have safe, happy, productive users.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
Subject says it.
If you are really, REALLY only interested in a browser, then Firefox on Linux takes the cake. VMWare-based solutions are overcomplicated and under-performing. Firefox on Linux has the following neat qualities:
1) Once configured with well supported hardware, it's nearly impossible to hork without the root password.
2) cron can automagically apply updates (via yum on RPM distros, apt on Debian derivatives) via cron.
3) Viruses are rare to non-existent. (See #1)
4) Usability is good - it's not hard to teach somebody how to use it.
5) Compatability is decent. (not all flash/shockwave/java thingies work without a bit of crabbing, but it's usually doable)
6) Works wonderfully with that old 1.5 Ghz P4 you got at the yard sale for $80.
7) Remote support is decent. You can ssh in, forward X11 to your local system, and see whatever they see.
But, if you want MORE than the basics (EG: a browser + Internet connection) and might want to give the users a full computer (TM) then I'd strongly recommend a Mac. They can be had used for fairly cheap, almost all will run OSX, and I've never seen a computer that I've had fewer problems with when my 6 kids bring over their 27 friends to my (forever messy) kid-friendly house.
If they are more expensive, it comes back rather quickly in "OMFG IT JUST FRICKKEN WORX!" savings. (but don't expect Windows Media support anytime soon)
And, in case you are curious, I'm a long-term Linux geek, my laptop runs Fedora Core 6, my servers are all CentOS 4.x and I love 'em. They are rock-solid and the servers deliver 99.95% uptime. (most of the last 0.05% is not because of software problems, either)
Linux is fabulous for servers, passable for a deskop, mostly due to lack of 3rd party support.. MacOS is the opposite - teh shiznit for desktop systems thanks to great OS and decent 3rd party support, but only passable for a server.
Windows is, at best, median at either - although it's a crappy solution to both desktop and server issues, the industry 3rd party support makes up for much of the rotting carcass that is the Win32 API.
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
Why bother with a LiveCD at all? If you have machine with a harddisk then give them a full fledged linux system fully installed, the majority of your limitations will go away and suddenly the idea of buying a Mac is less attractive.
Software Freedom Day!.
There is an easier way to do it with Linux than live CD. Much higher performance as well.
Start with a full install of Debian or Ubuntu or any other distribution that strictly complies to the fs standard and does not write into /usr. Build it with separate /,/var,usr and use tmpfs /tmp /var/tmp. Install all necessary plugins. Once you are happy with the result switch /usr to read-only mode. Do not give them a root password and provide sudo instructions for the visiting grandchildren if the golden age customer asks them to install something in addition.
This has been tested on a Golden Age customer (my mom) and this setup is the first machine she has had so far that does not require any maintenance. It just works regardless of powercuts, cats sleeping on the keyboard, etc. She had a windows before that and it got trojaned with a dialer hijacker which clocked her an insane phone bill. It also worked 10% of the time. During the rest it was suffering from various windowsy degenerative diseases. Prior to that she had a linux with a normal read-write install and she successfully managed to f*** it up by pressing the power button during fsck a couple of times.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
Microsoft Bob should do the trick.
with a 21 inch monitor (nice big text by default), OpenBSD, no X, just a terminal. What's not to like?
"These folks don't need any sophistication. and they need only the most basic options."
If I have seen further it is by stealing the Intellectual Property of giants.
Sometimes I help the elderly learn about computers. One thing that never fails to amaze them is Wikipedia.
Sifting the signal from the noise in a typical google search is just too complex for people that are computer novices as well as internet novices. But show them the Wikipedia plugin, where they can just search on whatever they're curious about and immediately get a single response that probably answers their question, and they'll immediately grasp just how cool the internet can be and they'll want to learn more.
I usually set windows to large or extra-large fonts, too. Just ask them which setting they find most comfortable while they are in front of the computer.
My first thought was to do a Linux livecd of some sort (or MacOS or BartPE or OpenBSD if you're not a Linux fan.) You *should* be able to do a pretty safe read-only-/usr environment instead, which will perform better and be a bit more reliable, and you can build yourself a reinstall-everything CD/DVD to fix things in case it's acting up - just try to find some way to preserve any user account settings. VMWare or User-Mode Linux or Xen can make it easy to build a heavy-duty sandbox environment to make it easier to keep the basic system safe if you want.
The important part of the user's interface to the operating system is that if they turn the power switch off and then on again, everything will work as if it were loading from scratch. Maybe they need to type in their name and a password, or maybe not.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I would suggest something like the OLPC as an everything. Yes, it's geared for children but I guess you're kind of dealing with ... well, in some cases degenerated minds.
'In some cases' is the key phrase here. In most homes there will be enough people who are perfectly capable of using a computer.
In short, my advice is to find the one of them with the most clue or potential for clue and make him/her the sys admin. Then let them do what they like.
I work in geriatric psychiatry and my group has been interviewing older people in institutions to understand in what way their needs are or are not being met. A common theme that arises among the cognitively intact (who are quite often smarter than most of us) is that they feel useless, they can see there are needs within their environment that are not met and they are not empwered to do anything about it. This upsets them greatly.
You've probably got people in your home who were in techincal jobs before they retired, and are more than capable of looking after a couple of PCs. Give them some Linux CDs or Windows or whatever and a good book and let them figure it out. They've probably got nothing better to do.
They'll feel empowered, they'll teach their friends, and leave you alone. Don't patronise them, don't give them a crippled system.
Same here, my mother is using debian, firefox, google mail and openoffice allows her MS compatible document exchange for her charity work; the box is behind a firewall and the setup works flawlessly. People who claim linux isn't ready for this kind of setup are clueless, it is windows which cannot function properly in this setup; my mothers friends all operate spyware and virus infested zombie spam mail systems and I am glad I don't know enough about windows to help them out. Windows + office also costs a bundle.
Of those to whom much is given, much is required.
Easy, there is specialised Web kiosk software that is free and easy to get and use - http://webconverger.com/
If you are a serious windows user and you don't want to go the Linux or OSX route try XP Embedded (XPE). I have played with XP Embedded and it has a nice feature where you can lock the hard drive (or flash card). When a user boots all the temporary stuff is created in a RAMDrive. You can install standard software such as Firefox or some office software and then lock any further changes. People can keep their documents etc on a USB stick. When the PC is rebooted then it reverts back to the locked down version. There is even a hibernate once a resume many feature where the OS is loaded from a hibernate image which is extremely fast.
In an ideal word Linux would be the best bet but XPE has its benefits if you are from a windows background.
Same here with the sole difference of Yahoo Mail instead of Google Mail.
I will also add the following trick to this. You can safely test any improvements, configs, desktop settings, locks etc with a 5 year old prior to deployment. If it works and he does not break it, you can safely roll it out onto the unsuspecting golden age population.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
So, wait...you're suggesting that visiting strangers should have sudo instructions/access but not the main users of the machines? I can't imagine that applications would be installed so frequently as to be problematic for the OP to install, thereby maintaining security and avoiding apparently-random changes to the installation. Plus the consensus so far seems to be towards read-only privileges to /usr, would it not be even simpler to offer something along the lines of removable media, such as a USB stick, for saving to and simply allowing the default installation of applications? At the very worst, if the users are aware of Gmail, on attempting to save a dialogue could be configured to suggest that either a USB key is required or that the user simply email the document to themselves for online storage?
I am, regretfully, inexperienced with *nix but it should, I'd imagine, be possible? And this way maintains security/integrity of the machines.
Of course if the machines are regarded as the property of the people using them then they should certainly have more freedoms, whether that incurs more work for the sysadmin is, to my mind, irrelevant. People are never to old to learn and adapt and, some research suggests, continuing to learn reduces the likelihood of memory-loss, degenerative mental illnesses.
No.
The OAP has the possibility to elevate his privileges to install an applications and has the instructions on how to do it.
Based on experience the OAPs never ever uses that. He/She always coopts visiting grandchildren to do that. While you can create them an account as well it always ends up being done from the OAP account as well so no need to do that./
In the meantime he/she has 0 privileges on the machine and keeps on using it and it does not break.
By the way - these are simple practical observations on a number of Linux installs done by me or some of my friends for the parents. While they may seem weird, that is the way it turns out to be in real life.
Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
http://www.sigsegv.cx/
I disagree.
Used imaginatively, the computer can break down the physical isolation of the elderly and disabled. Help them to read, to write, to speak their mind freely. Don't deny them the benefits of e-mail, instant messaging and chat.
Don't deny them a printer. Encourage them to personalize their small - institutionalized -space with letters, photographs, graphics of every kind. Let them fill scrapbooks, albums.
There is so much out there that they would enjoy.
My grandmother loved the sentimental artwork of the Victorians, Coolidge's poker-playing dogs.
If they are lucky, there will be - one - Reading Radio station programmed to their needs and tastes. On the Internet, there may be dozens, hundreds.
Don't ignore the mental and physical challenge of online games and puzzles.