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Scientist Must Pay to Read His Own Paper

Glyn Moody writes "Peter Murray Rust, a chemist at Cambridge University, was lost for words when he found Oxford University Press's website demanded $48 from him to access his own scientific paper, in which he holds copyright and which he released under a Creative Commons license. As he writes, the journal in question was "selling my intellectual property, without my permission, against the terms of the license (no commercial use)." In the light of this kind of copyright abuse and of the PRISM Coalition, a new FUD group set up by scientific publishers to discredit open access, isn't it time to say enough is enough, and demand free access to the research we pay for through our taxes?"

56 of 289 comments (clear)

  1. UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1) Just because it's released under CC, doesn't mean that people must give you a copy of it for free on demand. It just means that the author has permitted people to copy it without his explicit approval. He should still be able to get it from someone else who doesn't want to charge him. Now, if he released the paper on the condition that no one ever charge for it, he has a case against OUP (for violating the license), but he's not being "denied access to his own paper"; it's just that one of many authorized providers simply isn't providing it. (Am I being "denied access to Jane Austen" when website #2938093583 won't email her works to me for free?)

    2) If publishers are really contributing nothing to academic publishing, and just charge high prices and force you to sign away your rights (which I think is a fair characterization), here's a crazy idea: stop publishing through them! Set up your own journals and charge nothing or a token amount for access. If scientists are so bigoted they only deign to acknowledge work published in overpriced, unnecessary, exploitative publishers' journals, the problem is on the scientists' end.

    3) Yes, it would be nice if no publicly funded worker could ever hold any exclusive IP in their intellectual works. However, this would mean less intellectual work production by them. It's a tradeoff like any other.

    Oh, and

    4) Why did OUP ever accept it if it were labled as CC?

    1. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by eln · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now, if he released the paper on the condition that no one ever charge for it, he has a case against OUP (for violating the license), but he's not being "denied access to his own paper"


      The summary states that his license stipulates no commercial use. Charging anything for the paper beyond your own costs for providing it (a nominal bandwidth and storage fee, perhaps) is commercial use. On the face of it, OUP is violating the license.

      If publishers are really contributing nothing to academic publishing, and just charge high prices and force you to sign away your rights (which I think is a fair characterization), here's a crazy idea: stop publishing through them! Set up your own journals and charge nothing or a token amount for access


      That's a great theory, but then you get every scientist posting his research to his blog. In scientific circles, the idea of "peer-reviewed" research is very important. If you are not publishing in a well known and widely-read journal, you are not likely to get a whole lot of your peers to even read the research much less try to duplicate your results. Without duplication, scientific results are damn near useless.

      Yes, it would be nice if no publicly funded worker could ever hold any exclusive IP in their intellectual works. However, this would mean less intellectual work production by them. It's a tradeoff like any other.


      Most academic types do the research for its own sake, not necessarily to make money directly from it. These people tend to make money by writing books about their research, conducting lectures on it, and using it on their resumes to get nice tenured positions. It's usually the universities that make all the money selling it to private industry.

      Why did OUP ever accept it if it were labled as CC?


      I would be surprised if they even read the license at all.

    2. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by Virgil+Tibbs · · Score: 5, Informative

      if you read tfa you will see he is NOT complaining about access to it to read but them selling its redistribution rights despite the licence explicitly pointing out it is NON-commercial redistribution which is allowed....
      his issue isn't getting people to publish his article...
      his issue is someone selling his work, although the licence does not permit that.

      --
      www.tdobson.net #### Dare to Dream #### blog.tdobson.net
    3. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by kebes · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just because it's released under CC, doesn't mean that people must give you a copy of it for free on demand.
      True. Except in this case, the author is paying an open-access surcharge. In the blog post he says: "After all, the author has paid for this". The purpose of the surcharge is to help the journal cover distribution costs, thereby guaranteeing that everyone can read the article. If the journal accepts that publication fee, but then charges readers anyway, isn't that fraud?

      Now, if he released the paper on the condition that no one ever charge for it
      He did use such a condition. He used a creative commons license with a non-commercial clause, so it's illegal for the publisher to charge people for distribution. Again from his post, he says: "The journal is therefore SELLING MY INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY WITHOUT MY PERMISSION AGAINST THE TERMS OF THE LICENCE (NO COMMERCIAL USE)"

      If publishers are really contributing nothing ... stop publishing through them!
      The controversy here is precisely that he decided to publish in an open access journal. In fact, you can read about their open access policy here, which says: "From 1st January 2005, all articles published in NAR are freely available online immediately upon publication. This means that it is no longer necessary to hold a subscription in order to read current NAR content online."

      After paying his >$2000 publication charge, the journal turned around and tried to charge others for access. As he points out, this could have been an innocent mistake on their part. But, it's a violation of the agreement he had with them, and needs to be fixed.

      Set up your own journals and charge nothing or a token amount for access. If scientists are so bigoted they only deign to acknowledge work published in overpriced, unnecessary, exploitative publishers' journals, the problem is on the scientists' end.
      I don't know if the word "bigoted" is warranted, but I agree that we scientists need to push for open access. Which is what he did, by publishing in an open-access journal.
    4. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by kebes · · Score: 3, Informative

      it's a violation of the agreement he had with them, and needs to be fixed.
      Sorry to reply to my own comment... but...

      The article he couldn't access was this one: "MACiE (Mechanism, Annotation and Classification in Enzymes): novel tools for searching catalytic mechanisms" (doi 10.1093/nar/gkl774). I just tried accessing it from a non-subscription IP address, and I was able to load the PDF without issue. All the articles on the page seemed to load without asking for payment.

      So, in short, this was probably an innocent mistake and seems to be already fixed.
    5. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by Xiaran · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's a great theory, but then you get every scientist posting his research to his blog. In scientific circles, the idea of "peer-reviewed" research is very important

      Then why can not say a groups of universities get together and develop their own international web journal of all sciences(TM). Im thikning something like slashdot(only much more rigorous on access and content submission). You could have "moderators" who would be like experts in the field the paper is written for. Interested observers who have expertise in a related field etc. You could even have a system where people could be sponsored by other to be experts(Im thinking amateur astronomers who make many contributions to astronomy but may not have a related degree).

      Wasnt this kinda thing the reason for the invention of HTML in the first place?

    6. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by mbrod · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think Slashdot should actually do it.

      "scholar.slashdot.org"

      You could do a number of interesting things to entice the scholarly community to use the service.

    7. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by kebes · · Score: 4, Informative

      I need to correct myself (again). The article PDF is available for free download, but if you go to the article page and click on the "Request permission" link, you're brought to a new page where you can request permission to, for instance, print out copies for use in class. The form then tells you how much you have to pay them for those permissions.

      The issue, of course, is that this explicitly violates the creative commons (noncommercial) license that he published under (and which the journal evidently agreed to, in order to be able to post his paper at all). The journal is thus illegally charging others for permissions that are free.

      It still looks like a honest mistake. The structure of the website is such that a standard "permissions system" is being applied to a wide range of content for various journals. They seem to be mistakenly applying this system even to the open-access journals in the collection.

      Even though this is probably just an honest mistake, it needs to be fixed ASAP. They are presently breaking the law and very much going against the spirit of the agreement that he entered into with them when he published his paper.

    8. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by Chris_Keene · · Score: 2, Informative

      Where to start, first try http://pisdcoalition.org/
      as the 'alternative' site to prism (they forgot that wanting to share you knowledge is the work of communists).

      Background:
      Researchers at Universities do research.
      They are paid by the University, and they (well the University) may have received a grant to carry out the research (from nsf in the US or the research councils in the UK for example).

      Once they have done their research they write it up, normally in a paper (in the arts it can be a dance!).

      They send the paper to our journal. The journal's editorial board receive it and will the have it peer reviewed by other researchers in the same field to ensure it meets a level of quality and is suitable for the journal. This is the crucial part of the process. But the peer reviews do not get paid for this, and the VAST majority of editors do not get paid either.

      The publishers then sell the journal to the very Universities who supplied the articles for free and allowed their academics to peer review and edit for free (on university time normally).

      The publisher will normally demand they own the copyright.

      The price they sell journals to Universities have gone up far more than inflation year after year after year, which means unis cancel journal subs. Plus the contracts are complex with huge tie-ins and 'if you buy x you must by z' clauses.

      All publishers to is take the work of the academic (for free), get the editors and peers to review (for free) and then demand they own it, all for basically doing little more than formatting the document, proof reading and putting on a website (and, rarer now-a-days, in print). These are basic clerical jobs, not something which means they should own the copyright.

      As noted, Universities and academics often do not have access to their own work.

      There are changes afoot.

      The Open Access movement is taking off (either through freely available journals, or by making the articles available on University websites). The latter are referred to as Institutional Repositories (unsexy name!) and I happen to run one. The software they use is either http://www.dspace.org/ or http://www.eprints.org/ both are free and open source.

      Chris

      --
      You will forget this sig before you next see it
    9. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by Not+Invented+Here · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Then why can not say a groups of universities get together and develop their own international web journal of all sciences(TM). They've already started.

    10. Re:UbuntuDupe Untangling Squad by adrianmonk · · Score: 2, Informative

      2) If publishers are really contributing nothing to academic publishing, and just charge high prices and force you to sign away your rights (which I think is a fair characterization), here's a crazy idea: stop publishing through them! Set up your own journals and charge nothing or a token amount for access.

      This is a nice idea, but a researcher is unlikely to make this choice even if they want to promote open access. The reason is, a big factor in determining a researcher's career opportunities is the level of prestige of the journals that they can get their papers published in. A researcher's output is research, and the tangible and visible sign of that is publications, so it is the only reflection of their work that many people see. Prestige is so important that there is a formal system to denote the prestige of a journal: they are each assigned an Impact Factor. So, 99% of the time, a researcher will submit their paper to the most prestigious journal they think will accept it, and any other concern is secondary.

      There do exist open-access journals, but at present these tend to be towards the lower end of the prestige scale. Basically, journals that have a high impact factor do not have any need to offer open access and can easily get away with charging for access. Journals with a lower impact factor are interested in providing open access as a way to create interest in their journal. So although some journals have a motivation to provide open access, most researchers are motivated to publish in journals with high prestige, and as a consequence, they tend to prefer journals which as a side effect happen to not be open access.

  2. The document is free to read by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Funny

    The document is available to read as both text and pdf.
    I understand his worrying, but to me the biggest WTF is:

    He works for one Cambridge university, he published his document to its biggest rival (Oxford) and they expect US dollars for a totally English transaction.

    I say, off with their heads.

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
    1. Re:The document is free to read by Petrushka · · Score: 2, Informative

      Cambridge was founded by a bunch of criminals escaping from Oxford in the 7th century.

      Please get your facts right. As a Cambridge alumnus myself, I have some pride in my alma mater.

      13th century, not 7th.

  3. Can't he sue them by kalirion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Can't he sue them for copyright infringement?

  4. Re:Typical Cambridge whinger by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Well, why dont you try reading what the CC (no commercial benefit) means.

    What right does Oxford have to copy his work? If they did not work out a deal with him or his university, they, by default use the CC license.

    The CC license he chose has "No Commercial Use" clause. They used it for commercial use, thereby making void their usage of the CC for copyright.

    They are in violation of Rust's copyright. Hmm... if Rust can prove they did it in spite of CC (no com use), he probably can get treble damages...

    Treble damages = $48 * 3 * n

    Big number. Good.

    --
  5. And by everphilski · · Score: 2, Insightful

    5) Unless he's careless about backups, he has a damn copy on his computer at home. He can read his paper for free.

    But the real meat-and-potatoes is point #2. You chose to submit it to said journal. Live with the consequences. (I don't condemn publishing in journals - but they aren't the only method of getting the word out, and after submitting your article to a journal it certainly does not curtail you from sharing results with others via other avenues)

    1. Re:And by mikael · · Score: 4, Informative

      I am sure that if he went in to see the library staff, they would be able to give him an Athens login account, and that would allow him to to read his article for free. These are free for any staff or student who is working at a UK university.

      This seems to be more of an issue of central services not being informed of which journals they should be subscribing to.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    2. Re:And by iocat · · Score: 5, Informative
      I think it's worth RTFA and the Oxford response in his comments section. Pasted below:

      Dear Dr Murray-Rust

      I would like to respond to your post entitled, 'OUP wants me to pay for my own Open Access article' (September 3rd 2007).

      It is not Oxford Journals' policy to charge any users for downloading and using Open Access articles for non-commercial purposes. As stated in the copyright line, all Oxford Open articles are published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.0/uk/ ) which permits unrestricted non-commercial use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited.

      Rightslink functionality should not be appearing on any of our OA articles, and we are in the process of removing it. For Nucleic Acids Research, the links are not displaying on tables of contents with immediate effect, and will be removed from all article pages as soon as possible. For the OA content in journals participating in Oxford Open, we will also remove any references to Rightslink. In addition to the existing copyright line and the embedded machine-readable licence, we will also display the Creative Commons logo to help make the licence terms clearer to users.

      For clarification, it has never been our policy to charge our own authors for the re-use of their material in the continuation of their own research and wider educational purposes, and this includes authors of articles published under a subscription model.

      Kind regards

      Kirsty Luff
      Senior Communications and Marketing Manager
      Oxford Journals

      So, maybe not quite as sinister as it appears.
      --

      Dude, I think I can see my house from here.

    3. Re:And by Scrameustache · · Score: 2, Funny

      not quite as sinister as it appears. Well, from your quote, this appears to be a sorting mistake on the website which is being corrected by the responsible party once it has been informed of their error.

      Now how are going to get a good flamewar going with this kind of rational attitude? The people want to pick a bad guy and to ridicule him, either the author who wants his rights respected or the publisher who wants to collect money for their output... if they're both in agreement over the error and they make it right, then we can't pick sides and argue endlessly! We might *gasp* have to go back to our own jobs!
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    4. Re:And by budgenator · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is not the point, the authors published under the CC-NC license, Oxford has no right to distribute the work commercially. By distributing a work that they has no right to distribute Oxford has stolen the work and not only should any of the ill-gotten gains made by Oxford be transfered to the Authors, they maybe entitled to other damages. Oxford maybe liable for criminal or civil damages; it's not a matter of being able to get the article for free, it's a matter that making anyone is illegal; of course IANAL, but if were one of the Authors I'd be calling one.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    5. Re:And by leuk_he · · Score: 3, Interesting

      from TFA

      But it is actually part of the systemic failure of the industry to promote Open Access.

      It all is a routine, until they are caught, in which case they say "oops". They better try this not on legal students who care.

      Cleary they did not go by CC license, which makes "This License and the rights granted hereunder will terminate automatically upon any breach by You of the terms of this License." Thus they will have to pay Peter murray for copyright, and fast! I bet they have a standard fee for unlimited online relicencing....

    6. Re:And by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By distributing a work that they has no right to distribute Oxford has stolen the work...

      No, Oxford has copyright-infringed the work. "Stealing" and "copyright infringment" still aren't the same thing, even though the "good guys" are on the opposite side than usual this time. We've gotta be consistent, you know -- it's only fair.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    7. Re:And by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The theft is the theft of the right to distribute...

      Right, except that "rights" (or rather in this case, permissions issued by the government) aren't physical objects and can't be stolen. Thus, misappropriation of distribution rights is instead called "copyright infringment."

      Besides, they are fundamentally different things, you know: in one case, the owner is physically deprived of a particular physical instance of a thing. In the other, the copyright holder (note: the word "owner" is inappropriate here) is not deprived of anything at all, but the perpetrator overcomes a prohibition. While "stealing" is empirically and unequivocably wrong -- since the thief gains exactly as much as the rightful owner loses it's a zero-sum game, and thus the owner should retain his claim to ownership -- the ethics of "copyright infringment" are up for debate. In a sense, the copyright holder loses nothing while the infringer gains: a net benefit and a boon for society. However, as a society we've chosen to discourage it on the theory that giving the copyright holder exclusive distribution privilages encourages the creation of new works (a dubious assumption given the excessive duration of copyright; this logic made much more sense when an artist couldn't expect to fund an entire estate on the residuals).

      Anyway, the point is that "theft" and "copyright infringment" are two very different things. This is a fact, and an issue of legal definition. Regardless of your opinion or moral position, it's not negotiable. Period. (Am I making myself clear?) To conflate them only indicates to me that you either don't understand the issue, or are trying to use inflammatory language to make an (entirely worthless) appeal to emotion instead of arguing rationally. Neither is helpful, so please quit using the wrong word!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  6. Re:I don't agree to pay for research through my ta by Alioth · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With that kind of attitude, we would still all be living in caves.

    Research into quantum physics would have seemed useless with no market value when it was started. However, 50 years later, without that research, there would have been no transistors. How big is the semiconductor market today? 50 years before it even existed, no capitalist could have forseen the use of the research. There is a very good case for researching things that may have no market value for decades.

  7. Story Overblown by nodrogluap · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can access the article from the OUP web site for free (CC-NL with attribution), and additionally it is available from PubMed Central at the NIH. I don't know how we got that popup asking him for money to use it in a classroom, but it is probably just a mistake. Of course, there's nothing stopping someone from asking you to pay for something that's free, if you're a sucker. Once again, the whole article is right there to read, with the CC license right at the top. BTW, OUP has both Open Access and non-open access journals, so I can see how a common document delivery system could get screwed up. Not that it should, but you could see how. Hopefully they will correct it, I've published Open Access and non-Open Access papers with OUP and they are pretty responsive on both the technical and editorial sides.

  8. Publish in PLOS by GAATTC · · Score: 2, Informative
    One way to completely avoid the issue of commercial scientific publishers is to publish in an open access journal such as one of the Public Library of Science http://www.plos.org/ journals.

    The open access model works as follows: "Open Access: Everything we publish is freely available online for you to read, download, copy, distribute, and use (with attribution) any way you wish." Pretty straight forward.

    As an author you pay a small amount to support the publication of the journal - often smaller than the cost for color pages at a commercial journal, and then your work is freely available. These are high quality journals and are one important part of the free future of scientific publishing. The more people who make this choice, the more pressure there will be on the traditional journals to open up their content if they want to survive.

  9. Full Text, only $48 dollars or 5 mod points by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 4, Interesting


    OUP wants me to pay for my own Open Access article

    I have been dismayed (previous post: "Open Access") at the lack of commitment to OA by mainstream (primarily toll-access (TA)) publishers and have described this as a "systemic failure" of the industry. Here is another unacceptable lack of clarity and commitment from an Open Access journal from a major publisher. I had been investigating OUP's site for another reason (PRISM: Open Letter to Oxford University Press) and since I had published with them thought I would have a look at papers I had written ("I" and "my" include co-authors). This is what I found (screenshot):

    The Image in the blog entry stating $48 cost

    The electronic article is accompanied by a sidebar with "request permissions". I followed this and the result is shown above. The journal wishes to charge me 48 USD to:

            * USE MY OWN ARTICLE
            * ON WHICH I HOLD COPYRIGHT
            * FOR NON-COMMERCIAL PURPOSES (TEACHING)

    The journal is therefore

            * SELLING MY INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
            * WITHOUT MY PERMISSION
            * AGAINST THE TERMS OF THE LICENCE (NO COMMERCIAL USE)

    I am lost for words... ... the only charitable conclusion I can draw is that the publisher ritually attaches the awful Rightslink page to every article automatically and that this is a genuine mistake. I have found such "genuine mistakes" with other publishers in their hybrid journals (i.e. where only some of the papers are OA, the majority being toll-access TA). But this is a fully OA journal - all papers are OA - I assume CC-NC. There is no excuse for including the Rightslink page on ANY OA paper, let alone every one on a journal.

    If this is - as I desperately hope - a genuine mistake then my criticism might seem harsh. But it is actually part of the systemic failure of the industry to promote Open Access. And I hope that OUP can and will clarify and rectify the position. If, however, it is deliberate and that the publisher actually intends to charge readers and users for Open Access articles I shall reserve comment.

    This is not a trivial point. The normal reader of a journal who wishes to re-use material has to navigate copyright constraints and restrictions on an all-too-frequent basis. Such a reader, especially if they were relatively unaware of Open Access could easily pay the journal for "permission to use an Open Access article for teaching". (Note that other charges are higher - to include my own article in a book I write would cost nearly 350 USD).

    It is all indicative of an industry that simply isn't trying hard enough.
    RECOMMENDATION:

    OPEN ACCESS ARTICLES ON PUBLISHERS' WEB PAGES SHOULD NEVER BE ACCOMPANIED BY RIGHTSLINK OR OTHER PERMISSION MATERIAL. INSTEAD THE PUBLISHER SHOULD PRO-ACTIVELY POINT OUT THE NATURE OF OA AND ENSURE THAT THE READER AND RE-USER IS FULLY AWARE OF THEIR RIGHTS.

    After all, the author has paid for this...

    This entry was posted on Monday, September 3rd, 2007 at 6:43 pm and is filed under open issues. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

    --
  10. The Document Is Free, What Is He On About? by _bug_ · · Score: 3, Informative

    The page on OUP's website that the Rust is on about is located here. As you can plainly see on the right-hand of the screen this document is available, FOR FREE, in PDF format. In fact, here's a direct link to said PDF on OUP's website.

    What Rust's complaint is about is the "Request Permissions" link under the "Services" menu on the left-side of the page. It apparently opens to a third party website which OUP, it appears, uses to calculate charges for different uses of papers published through OUP.

    My guess here is a bit of poor programming for the OUP website. The document is clearly CC and it's free to download, but the copyright.com website doesn't appear to know this, so it's providing pricing on publishing the article. Maybe OUP needs to look into this matter, but the fact remains that the paper is online, freely accessible through OUP to anyone, and clearly listed as being released under CC licensing.

    Rust is really making a lot of fuss over nothing.

  11. Re:Two Ideas by Bazman · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm guessing you've never seen an academic's desk before...

  12. Price quoted is for commerial use only! by maubp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Citation:
    Holliday et al. (2007) MACiE (Mechanism, Annotation and Classification in Enzymes): novel tools for searching catalytic mechanisms. Nucleic Acids Research, 35, Database issue D515-D520. DOI link

    He's right that clicking on the right and getting a quick quote for reproducing the entire article as part of a course pack (print and/or electric) is non zero... BUT, producing a course pack doesn't allways equate to non-commerial in my mind.

    It might part of university course, in which case Peter Murray-Rust seems justified in taking calling this non-commerial (and therefore free under the CC licence used).

    However, the course-pack could be part of a commercial training course for members of the pharma industry - in which case the end user would have to pay the copyright holders.

    The bottom of the quick quote page even EXPLAINS this (cropped in his screen shot):

    If the item you are seeking permission to re-use is labeled OPEN ACCESS ARTICLE then please note that non-commercial reuse of it is according to the terms and conditions of the Creative Commons license. Permission only needs to be obtained for commercial use and can be done via Rightslink. If you have any queries about re-use of content published as part of the Oxford Open program, please contact journals.permissions@oxfordjournals.org.

    What's the big fuss about?

    1. Re:Price quoted is for commerial use only! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The fuss is that the author never licensed the website to distribute commercially under *any* terms, let alone for a fee. Only the copyright holder can authorize that, and unless the author has signed the copyright over to the website, negotions for commercial use need to occur with *him*.

  13. His license doesn't matter by everphilski · · Score: 3, Informative

    In order to get published, you have to sign off on Oxford Journal's License to Publish:

    here

    and I quote:

    "You agree that OUP may include the Article in an "open access" version of the Journal subject to payment of the relevant 'open access' fee or submission of a valid fee-waiver form."

    You have to sign this piece of paper to submit the article. Obviously, he (or a coauthor?) did, so from my read he gave them explicit permission to seek payment.

    1. Re:His license doesn't matter by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 4, Informative

      "You agree that OUP may include the Article in an "open access" version of the Journal subject to payment of the relevant 'open access' fee or submission of a valid fee-waiver form."
      This part is a bit confusing, but it refers to the author paying OUP to put it into an open access journal, not the reader paying to access this paper. The reader access is described on the right of that form:

      "Open access" versions are made freely available online immediately upon publication as part of a long-term archive without subscription barriers to access.
      --

      Stephan

  14. Re:I don't agree to pay for research through my ta by asadodetira · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "his research is mostly useless from a market perspective".

    That's why research is peer-reviewed y scientists and not marketers. If the market was to decide what's worthy of researching, only narrow areas of immediate commercial interest will be funded. Basic research such as math that's useful to do other research is not immediately useful market-wise, but necessary for overall progress of human knowledge.

  15. Not "Free Market" Nonsense Again by asphaltjesus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    let the market economy support what it needs and deny what it doesn't need?

    That's already the case in the pharmaceuticals industry. Supposedly independent academic research has long ago been purchased by drug manufacturers in exchange for the Dean showing a great bottom line.

    Has the cost of medicine in general gone down?

    Is there more access to the medical system?

    What about drugs that cure diseases in countries that can't afford to pay? Do they get the same amount of research as erectile disfunction and mood disorder research?

    Please abandon this kind of thinking. A market-like system creates as many problems as the one it replaces. Only it's more virulent, harms consumers a multitude of ways and benefits a very, very select few. As Microsoft and AT&T have proven, even regulation doesn't shut down a monopoly.

    --
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  16. Re:Two Ideas by JamesP · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm guessing you've never seen an academic's desk before...

    Yes, I have... And they didn't have much trouble finding stuff in it.

    --
    how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
  17. Cambridge produces the establishment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Look, Prof. Rust, I hate to break this to you, but you are representing one of the two universities which pretty much singlehandedly produce the lawyers, politicians and civil servants of this country. All productive work that you do goes ultimately toward bolstering the establishment. And the establishment likes the kind of crap exploitative behaviour displayed by publishers.

    If you don't like it - and I wish more scientists and mathematicians didn't - you would distance yourself from Oxbridge, and do what religious dissenters had to do prior to C20: set up their own Universities. Sound daft? Early C19 France's post-revolutionary applied bent brought work from Laplace, Legendre, Galois, Cauchy, et al. publishing in Liouville's Journal de Mathematiques - where the founder was also a prominent author; Germany supplied us with Gauss, Dirichlet, Jacobi, et al. publishing in Crelle's Journal, a lovechild of Crelle and Abel's relationship with the new abstract mathematics; where was Cambridge? Well, Woodhouse's attempts to advance on tutoring of Newton's fluxions by introducing Lagrange's algebra was a miserable failure, the most advanced mathematical textbook was a translation of Lacroix that preceded Cauchy's work at the Ecole in the 1820s, Frend was back to poking fun at the concept of negative numbers (400 years too late, buddy!) for the lack of physical association - and that was before he was thrown out for being OMG a unitarian. Despite De Morgan's "science of symbols" trying to drag Cambridge kicking and screaming to C19 Continental levels of progress (and, hell, the of abstract symbolism was well ranted about by Leibniz 100 years prior), he similarly received the boot for being an OMG heretic!

    The sad thing is that in the first half of C19, England was the backward exception; today, the spirit of revolutionising society by broadening participation in scientific advancement is absent from pretty much the whole of Europe. But I repeat myself. If the best academics, following Laplace, would poke their "spirit of the infinitesimal" into the power-lustful eyes of the contemporary Napoleons, sacrificing a little research time to strengthen the power of the productive as opposed to the administrative, we'd see some progress. (N.B. yes, US readers, I know, putting control in the hands of the workers is socialism and in the hands of the owners of the presses is capitalism blah blah. Whatever. The cold war's over, enough of the witch trials already.)

    And no, putting your faith in a profit-making entity like Google is not the answer, for the businessman giveth and the businessman taketh away; though I expect Google will court academics looking for a less oppressive way to manage the peer review and publishing process.

  18. Re:What Tax Dollars? by kebes · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your tax dollars do not pay for vetting of the paper. Vetting the paper by peers is what still makes this a valuable service.
    This argument comes up every time there is an open-access debate. So allow me to address it, again.

    The authors write the papers, and do not receive any pay from the journal for that. The journal editors then forward the paper to reviewers. The reviewers are volunteers, not paid by the journal. Then the editors forward the paper (if accepted) to a typesetter, and it is published.

    The authors and the reviewers are academics, who basically give their time to the journals. Their salaries come from government grants, from university funds (which come from tuition), and to some extent from corporate collaborations.

    The salaries of the editors and typesetters are paid by the journal subscription charges. The subscriptions come primarily from academic libraries in universities or government research institutes. (Which are, again, funded by government grants and university funds.)

    So, a very large percent of the money flowing into the journal comes from public funds (taxes). Significantly, the peer reviewers are volunteers, with their actual salaries coming largely from public funds. In a very real sense, our tax dollars are indeed paying for vetting the paper. The "valuable service" of which you speak is not performed by the journal, but by the academics (who do not benefit in any way from the toll-access that the journals impose).
  19. so the real issue is by darth_linux · · Score: 2, Insightful

    does private ownership of intellectual property hinder scientific research? Should publicly funded science be required to release findings using creative commons (or other such) license? Does it bother us that a large chunk of DNA research IP is help by private parties?

    --
    Power to the Penguin!
  20. Diagnosis: Valium deficiency by DynaSoar · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nucleic Acids Research is an open journal, which charges the authors a publication fee. It's supposed to be free for reading by their own statement. Thus, this is not some special case of open access submission to a regular journal. The charges window is from OA's regular, pay-for-access journals. It's obviously a simple mistake by OA's web site. Write email to AO's admin for access at openaccess@oxfordjournals.org and let them know, then give them adequate time to fix it. Journals, even open access, even web-based, are not fast action organizations and OA is, in my experience, one of the slower ones.

    As for a claim of "my" article from one of a dozen or so authors (the complaint being about 6th or 8th among them) as well as the complaint about not being able to read it (you've got a copy, don't you?) instead of the more accurate "charge being applied to OUR open access article on THEIR open access journal web site", criminy, take a trank and some deep breaths. You're having a tantrum and it's making you spout extravagant and incorrect claims. It took me all of 5 minutes, including reading the blog posts, to find the contact point for OA's open access admin. Contact the right people and let them fix it.

    FWIW, NIH has been working to get any publication supported by NIH funding to be made available for free (at least to US sites, as having been supported by US tax money) via National Library of Medicine's PubMed (nee MEDLINE), no matter what journal it's in. NASA has had good luck making their stuff available through their own channels since they won't sign over copyright to journals because they're publicly supported, and NIH is following their example through their own distribution system. And that's working with copyright snatching pay-for journals. Open access journals are already open, and I haven't had this problem with non-OA open pubs, so it's obvious this is simply a bug in the OA system. It happens. They're not evil ogres out to steal "your" pub.

    It might go faster if the first author made the contact with OA, but I doubt it since I doubt they intended for this to happen.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  21. Re:I don't agree to pay for research through my ta by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the other dangers of state-funded research is that it gets politicized and distorted. Biotechnicians now have to deal with really weird and arbitrary rules about where their stem cells came from. And Yog-Sothoth help you, if you're in a government position and happen to notice a curious relationship between pollution and temperature: you better shut your mouth if you want to keep your job.

    And yet, to restore integrity to publicly funded research, you have to tell the electorate, "Fuck you, I don't care what platform you voted for, we're going to spend your money on something you don't like. You say we're killing babies, I say a microscopic blob isn't a person. Don't agree with me? Well guess what, I hold the power and you will settle up with me on April 15." It's either a science disaster or a civics disaster: whoever wins, we lose.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  22. So do what Don Knuth did and leave them. by conspirator57 · · Score: 4, Informative


    http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~hal/jalg.html

    Dr. Knuth has a stark and telling financial analysis for his journal in particular and its trend in relation to the marketplace in his letter to the Editorial board of the Elsevier journal of which he was a member. It led to the resignation of the entire editorial board and the formation of the ACM journal Transactions on Algorithms. It's a must read for the current discussion.

    BTW: I just started back at school for my master's and the required orientation seminars include a segment from the librarians. The librarians emphasize the importance of searching the more expensive, private journals they pay for (Springer, etc.) claiming that your academics will suffer if work has been published in a journal and you don't reference it. The librarian sounded like he was reading Springer's marketing material to us. It was disgusting. For the scientific community to break out of this media trap, we must reject this mentality, allow researchers to answer questions on research sources on ethical grounds, and ultimately make the decisions that Dr. Knuth and the JoA board made.

    --
    "If still these truths be held to be
    Self evident."
    -Edna St. Vincent Millay
    1. Re:So do what Don Knuth did and leave them. by everphilski · · Score: 5, Insightful

      claiming that your academics will suffer if work has been published in a journal and you don't reference it.

      Your journal submissions / Master's thesis will, regardless of whether you felt this was 'marketing material'. It is very important, if you are going to publish via any mainstream channel, and this includes masters thesis/doctoral dissertation, to consider the literature and cite, cite, cite. Failure to do so can lead to problems down the road, it is no joke.

      The benefit of this is that you gain a better understanding of the state of the knowlege of the scientific community and you can better define and carve out for yourself a problem to tackle as a grad student. Uniqueness is important.

    2. Re:So do what Don Knuth did and leave them. by megaditto · · Score: 2, Funny

      claiming that your academics will suffer if work has been published in a journal and you don't reference it.

      You are absolutely correct: if you are smart enough you don't need no stinking references. Or as my advisor used to point out, two weeks or research in the lab can save you two hours research in the library.
      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    3. Re:So do what Don Knuth did and leave them. by PDAllen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, it rather depends what you're doing as to whether you need references. I'm a mathematician, so from that POV...

      If your paper starts from the basics that everyone learns in undergrad lectures, builds up to a result and stops, then you probably don't really need to reference anything. Though chances are your paper will be much more readable and useful if you try to explain why your result is interesting, which means discussing other results a little, which means you reference them.

      If you use someone else's results along the way without acknowledging the fact, then you are being exceptionally rude, even if it's clear from context that you're not claiming the result as your own. If it's not clear (e.g. if you include a proof) then it will look like you're plagiarising. Since you're early on in your, career, let me try to help. If you want to continue in academia, you will need to convince someone to give you a job. If you write a paper which doesn't acknowledge results it uses, then you had better hope that not many people read it, or you will never get a job.

      If you use someone else's results and name them but don't give a reference, then you are being deliberately unhelpful to your readers. Some of them will want to check those results, you presumably know which papers those results were in (since you're using them) and it's not exactly hard to get journal issue and page numbers off citeseer when you know what you're looking for. When you don't, it can be a real pain. This won't kill any chance of a job, but it will make you unpopular.

      If you really do not like journals, then you can publish in the ArXiV (or similar). You can stick stuff on your website. You can reference the ArXiV. You can reference other people's websites (though that's risky: websites change). A few people do do these things (and many people stick stuff in the ArXiV or on a website as well as submitting to a journal). That said, at least in the UK your department gets funding by getting a good score in the research assessment exercise. To get a good RAE score you need your staff to be publishing 'good papers'. And the way that is measured is that each member of staff submits his best papers since the last RAE, which are given a score according to the quality of the journals they were published in. No-one actually reads the papers to see if they really are good or not, they go by if it's in Combinatorica then it's good (generally true), if it's in Discrete Math then it's not so good (usually true, but of course DM won't reject a really good paper that would get into Combinatorica), if it's just in the ArXiV then it barely counts (although e.g. Perelman put his proof of Poincare's conjecture straight into the ArXiV without submitting it to any journal - it does happen).

    4. Re:So do what Don Knuth did and leave them. by PDAllen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Two points. One, I said the UK funding body rates papers on the basis of which journal they're in. Professional mathematicians don't, generally: there are one or two journals around which don't actually peer-review properly, so you aren't likely to read them (anything there is very likely to be either very boring or wrong, and life is too short to spend time on that). Otherwise, you usually judge by the title and maybe abstract whether it's worth spending time having a look, then you read the introduction and maybe skim the rest. You don't generally spend too much time reading in detail until you need to. And of course you can find title and abstract for anything in a bunch of places.

      Two, if you know what you're looking for, and it was written any time this millennium, you have a pretty good chance of finding it by searching the web. Most people do put their stuff up. For an example, take the Journal of Combinatorial Theory B (another top-level journal, published by Elsevier). It has the usual Elsevier notice about submissions being published elsewhere. But if you look at the titles, then you still find a lot are on websites, usually on authors' homepages.

      There are two reasons to publish in a journal. One, funding bodies often use journals to rank academics (and departments funded by such bodies will have to do the same to some extent, because they need money). Two, more people will hear about your stuff if it's in a good journal. Not in fact a lot more, but some. Mostly people who want to know about your stuff will find out by checking your website (if they really like you), by listening to a conference talk (you probably give several in a year), by word of mouth or Google searches (if someone wants to work on the same topic as your paper they probably will find it), by skimming the arxiv submissions (if you put it there, a lot of people will check the recent titles about once a week, even if they don't open the articles most of the time) and failing that then after the standard publishing delay (12-30 months, depending) if it appears in a journal there's another chance to be seen by someone skimming the journal's latest issues. And you do want people to read your stuff (if it's good). Because when you apply for a job, you'll come with your best papers and talk about them. If the people in the department have never heard of you, you hope that there's someone in the department who's willing to spend a lot of time reading your papers and that person is interested in the area, or alternatively you produce a really brilliant presentation. Often everyone's busy interviewing six other candidates, teaching and doing their own research. If you show up and one of your interviewers has already read some of your papers, then you don't have to do a brilliant job of compressing three years of research into a twenty minute why-I-am-interesting presentation. A department will usually reject the unheard-of guy with a good presentation in favour of the guy with a decent presentation but where someone already in the department can stand up and say, I know this guy's work and it's good.

  23. Cost of rules and regulations by Technician · · Score: 3, Insightful

    " In the light of this kind of copyright abuse and of the PRISM Coalition, a new FUD group set up by scientific publishers to discredit open access, isn't it time to say enough is enough, and demand free access to the research we pay for through our taxes?"

    Research is one thing. Rules and regulations you have to follow has taken the same road to being expensive. I needed to do some rewireing and wanted to comply with the National Electrical Code. In the past the book was under $20. Now it is expensive far beyond any publishing costs.

    How would you feel if your town took published the standard your were required to follow to legally use the roads, but by the way, the standard drivers manual with the new revisions is now $150

    http://www.constructionbook.com/electrical-codes/? CMP=KNC-Google
    http://www.constructionbook.com/nec-code-2005/

    Cost of materials for the job $160
    Permit and inspection $192
    Cost of the book $159.95 for the 6th edition.

    This makes the latest Harry Potter hard bound edition look like a bargain compared to this spiral bound paperback. The price of the book is not in any way related to the publishing cost.

    By the way, I passed inspection on first try. I saved paying an electrician $1500.00. I skipped buying the book. I Googled the discussion on the changes proposed to the standard to learn of the changes that I needed to comply.

    It's important legally such as needing to know the legal distance you have to stay back from a responding fire truck. It would suck to have to pay $150 for a drivers manual. Why the heck is the NEC, a required standard selling for over $150?

    Can anybody justify the reasoning for the overpricing of this book by a full order of magnitude? The price of the regulations should not be 1/3 of the cost of a large rewire job.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
    1. Re:Cost of rules and regulations by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Try Here.

      When we're considered criminals anyways, why not act like them?

      And who're the real criminals: Those who download "copyrighted works", or those who charge for what we have already paid for?

      --
  24. Re:No surprise. by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What really begs the question is, where the hell does that money go, if not to the author of the article?

    Depends. Maintaining an editing, peer review, production and publication system does cost money, print or online. Aside from that, there's a distinction between journals put out by non-profit organizations (like the American Chemical Society) and for-profit publishers (like Elsevier).

    The societies often use journal publication as a moneymaker to support other efforts, which are often philanthropic. ACS, for instance, does a lot to support chemistry education K-12 and other efforts as well. I believe many of them also give discounts to academic institutions. On the other hand, the for-profit publishers are in the business of making money, and charge what the market will bear. For that reason, many researchers prefer to use society-based publishers.

  25. Re:I don't agree to pay for research through my ta by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While I agree with your general points, I think there is a valid role for the government in providing services that cannot (or that we don't want) be limited to only those who have paid for them. In economics terms, those goods for while the 'free-rider problem' is hard to solve.

    I think GPS falls into this category. Putting the GPS constellation up was very expensive. Putting it up there, and also building in some capability that made the signal only useful to those who had paid a subscription fee, would have been harder still. (And with a subscription service, I doubt it ever would have become popular enough to pay for itself. I own three GPS units, but I doubt I'd own any if they required a subscription service.) So rather than having no GPS system at all, or a crippled one, you accept that it's something that's useful to society in general and pay for it out of taxes, and allow everyone to use it.

    Obviously this is a dangerous game -- it's easy for corrupt politicians to expand the scope of government if not kept in check constantly -- but there are lots of situations where it's the most efficient and effective solution to a problem, to use public funding.

    The current scientific journal system is beyond corrupt, and needs to die. However, privatizing all scientific research would be a disaster. First, although you would think that corporations (not having any pesky biological lifespan) would take the long view and invest in basic research, for the most part, they don't. The market favors next-quarter gains, not decades- or centuries-long strategy.

    Second, it wouldn't be very healthy to have the majority of our scientific knowledge locked up by corporations who have no interest in it except insofar as it can be monetized or used to gain a competitive advantage. (Hard to put together unified theories when IBM knows half of what's known in a field, Microsoft knows the other half, and they don't speak to each other.) We suffer as a whole, if new discoveries aren't made public. The current academic system (where the currency is basically prestige, rather than cash) encourages dissemination of new discoveries. A more market-driven one would not.

    The market economy is a great thing, but there are some areas in which the outcomes it produces may be non-optimal from the point of view of people actually living in the market. Solving the free-rider problem, either when it's not possible to charge for a good, or you don't want to charge for a good, is one of the legitimate functions of a democratic government.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  26. Mistake of using the CC license by OrangeTide · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Because there cannot be significant damages for violating the license of free material, your chance of actually extracting any sort of retribution is minimal.

    What you should do from now on is dual license the material. CC for not-for-profit duplication, and explicitly state a royalty system for commercial use. Charge $1 for every copy sold. When a company violates your terms you can sue for real damages. And in most jurisdictions it works as multiplier so you can sue for far more than they have actually failed to pay.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  27. foia? by deadstatue · · Score: 2, Interesting

    could this catergory fall under the foia?research paid by taxes. people have the right to know

  28. Academics are like pop celebrities by AHumbleOpinion · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The librarian sounded like he was reading Springer's marketing material to us.

    No, the librarian was passing along the sad truth, not corporate spin. The corporation did not create this situation, they merely leverage it to make a profit, as with any other trend. As noted, the academics have created and brought this upon themselves. Academics are sometimes like pop celebrities, they want to see their name in the *right* places, the fashionable high status places.

    As you begin your study and research be prepared to take part in the big academic pissing contest. Your research will most likely be *directed* by advisors away from your pure interests and spun in a more marketable and fashionable direction. Welcome to the herd. :-)

  29. The Public Library of Science by Corson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Scientific publishing has been a big business for some time. If scientists only wanted to publish their work then they would submit their papers to the Public Library of Science (PLOS) or to other free (of charge) publishing services. But they want fame, to advance their careers, and publishing in journals such as Cell, Science, or Nature is expensive; and access to scientific papers in those same journals is also expensive. But since scientists don't pay for those privileges out of their own pockets*, price doesn't seem to matter to them -- at least not as much as "fame".
    ____
    *next time you donate to, say, a cancer research charity, remember that some of the money spent on "research" is actually spent on publishing articles in expensive journals

  30. SImilar thing happened to me. by dskoll · · Score: 3, Informative
    I wrote this article for Linux Journal, and discovered it was for sale on the ACM Web Site.

    I phoned the ACM and got it sorted out. As you see now on their site, it's freely-available. The ACM was reasonable and reacted quickly. That isn't always the case.

  31. Re:I don't agree to pay for research through my ta by UserGoogol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because the whole fucking point of science is that it studies the pointless stuff too. If science was funded merely by the free market, science funding would be skewed towards researching practical stuff, which would leave abstract theoretical stuff that doesn't produce practical results for hundreds of years forced to beg for money, and that would force science to become hopelessly myopic. Science is not merely the servant of the economy, doing the grunt work of pure research so that people can go invent and create great things, science is an end in itself.

    Furthermore, "stealing from people" to fund science is more justified than "stealing from people" to fund police. Providing a police service only benefits some people; criminals for instance are harmed by police, (or, for that matter, by people defending themselves independently) and that's not nice. Science, to contrast, benefits everyone, whether they directly partake of science or not.

    Perhaps government funding allows science to be a bit less efficient by allowing them to get money even if they don't get results. BUT IF SO, THAT IS A GOOD THING. Science is by design inefficient. You look at some data, you create a hypothesis, and then you test it over and over again until you find out that it's false. Even the most obvious theories might end up being wrong, and thus they should be tested. This is insanely inefficient, but fuck efficiency. Science is the most important thing in the universe.

    Also, the free market can only give us what we want, since it's based on voluntary transactions between people. It is fairly often the case that as science advances, we find out that something we didn't really think we wanted is, in fact, fucking awesome. In order for life to get better, we need the government to "steal people's money" and invest in crapshoots.

    --
    "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor