Slashdot Mirror


Mutant Algae to Fuel Cars of Tomorrow?

Hugh Pickens writes "Algae has long been known as a promising source of biodiesel. It's worth noting, though, that algae also produces a small amount of hydrogen during photosynthesis. The MIT Technology Review reports that researchers have created a mutant algae that makes better use of sunlight to increase the amount of hydrogen that the algae produce. Anastasios Melis and his team at the University of California have manipulated the genes that control the amount of chlorophyll in the algae's chloroplasts. Although the process is still at least five years from being used for hydrogen generation, Melis estimates that if 50% of the algae's photosynthesis could be directed toward hydrogen production, an acre could produce 40 kilograms of hydrogen per day. At the price of $2.80 a kilogram, hydrogen could compete with gasoline, since a kilogram of hydrogen is equivalent in energy to a gallon of gasoline."

32 of 158 comments (clear)

  1. Feasible by chuckymonkey · · Score: 4, Informative

    If they can make this work I think it's great. The current U.S. consumption of oil is about 5.2 Million bb/d, and there is about 950 Million acres of farmland as of 2002. One barrel of crude equals about 42 gallons of gasoline according to this. So we can safely say that one acre is about a barrel of crude according TFA. I think that is very doable provided that it actually works. Much better solution than ethanol if you ask me, which has proven time and again that if we want to go with corn ethanol that there isn't enough farmland in the U.S. Now granted that 40kg is optimal so if we allow say 8 million acres for this I think we may even have a surplus of energy. That is the kind of idea I like to see.

    --
    "Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
    1. Re:Feasible by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ethanol is a corporate welfare scam. The government knows it, ADM and Gargil know it, the DOE knows it, and the politicians are hoping that you and I don't. Generating fuel from algae or bacteria would be so much better on so many levels than fermenting corn, I really hope it comes to fruition.

      Just imagine the effect on world politics if nobody cared who had control of the petroleum in the middle east, because it was selling for $4/bbl.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:Feasible by thanatos_x · · Score: 2, Informative

      The end result is the carbon is removed from the air. It's exactly like trees and other plants, albeit as a likely single celled organism the resulting structure it's stored in isn't usually as useful.

      Also I may be wrong, but I believe you'd still run into oxygen depletion in the ocean, though not directly from the algae. An algal bloom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algal_bloom increases the amount of bacteria present to 'eat' the algae. These bacteria use the oxygen dissolved in the water, and eventually most animals can't survive in it.

      As to the possible problem of breeding an algae which takes over things - this species seems to me like it'd be less likely to survive in the wild, and even if equally as likely, it is probable that in order to cultivate the algae in sufficient quantities, it would have to be fertilized, limiting it's excessive spread to the areas fertilized/naturally containing a large abundance of such nutrients.

      It likely would be difficult to harvest the byproduct of multiple millions of acres of algae on the ocean, but I don't see it being significantly easier farming it. Perhaps the easiest solution would be to flood an area near the ocean (or a continental shelf), but these tend to be areas valued by man and inhabited by diverse wildlife where man hasn't chased it away. Regardless you'd need large quantities of water and of land, and they tend to be somewhat exclusive of each other. The great plains aquifers are estimated to run dry as early as 2050, and these are the prime reason why farming the great plains is as productive as it is. I don't know, perhaps I'm missing an obvious solution?

      --
      I am not an expert. If I am misled in something, please correct me.
    3. Re:Feasible by DDLKermit007 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Don't count on this getting too far. Corn producers have their heels into politicians pretty good on the matter, and Hydrogen has this problem of being very hard to contain with a problem of brittling most metals used to contain it outside of titanium.

    4. Re:Feasible by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It produces nearly enough hydrogen per acre to make "backyard" hydrogen farms feasible.

      Instead of thinking entirely in terms of big honking swaths of farmland covered in algae, think of 5 or 6 vertical tanks in every backyard, producing ~4kg of hydrogen a day. That would cover automotive energy needs for the average person, probably with some left over.

      Also, while farming this stuff right in the ocean wouldn't make much sense, floating farms would be practical, and a good use of space.

      I'm a big fan of the idea of using the kind of space that we already waste for energy production (e.g the tops of every wal-mart in america covered in solar cells). Even a land efficient method like this one could benefit from using parts of land that we already use for another, non-conflicting, purpose.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    5. Re:Feasible by chuckymonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I like the way you think. Putting them in the backyard definately would solve most of the storage problem, and if I'm not mistaken (not sure about this breed) couldn't you feed the algae your housewaste including graywater?

      --
      "Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
    6. Re:Feasible by HangingChad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There's another bonus with oil producing algae, it can grow in brackish water and eat sewage.

      What algae lacks is a powerful lobby in Washington like the corporate farms and corn sweetener have. It would also threaten a large volume of the petroleum supply chain. Since so much of our foreign policy seems centered around protecting Saudi Arabia's cash flow (when we're not arming Israel), I can't imagine our government getting behind algae production.

      Not like energy independence should be a national strategic priority or anything.

      It would mean we'd need to put more diesel vehicles on the road but who says we have to have a single source model? With the hydrogen bonus from the algae oil, a little ethanol to keep the farm lobby happy, and oil producing algae we could certainly retire a few of those super tankers in the oil pipeline.

      With the right financial incentives and treating it like a strategic priority we could have large scale production online in five years. We could potentially be getting the majority of our transportation fuel from algae in ten years if we really committed to it. I don't mean a Bush commitment, I mean a Kennedy man-on-the-moon commitment.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    7. Re:Feasible by Xonstantine · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh, we functionally already have yeast that eat waste cellulose and excrete ethanol. The problem is, the cellulose has to be emersed in water, ethanol is a waste product that eventually poisons the yeast at a fairly low concentration, and you have to distill the solution to extract the alcohol...and distillation is energy intensive.

  2. Nice work, but... by jcr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At $2.8 per Kg, this would be one of the cheapest ways yet to extract hydrogen, but it still leaves the problem of containing it in a vehicle, the cost of building the fuel cell or engine you'd burn it in, and so on. The fact is that gasoline has an incredible energy density by volume, and in absolute terms, it's still very, very cheap.

    Something I find rather more promising is the work described in an earlier MIT review article, where bacteria are being modified to make gasoline directly. Just like petroleum-based gasoline, except that it's carbon-neutral, and sulphur-free. We're talking gasoline from anything that E. coli can ferment.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  3. Is it to much to ask by onyxruby · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is it to much to ask to get reference links with more credibility than wikipedia? I mean, come on, is it really that hard to find a credible source to reference? For pete's sake even wikipedia claims it should /not/ be sourced as a cite, only a starting point.

    1. Re:Is it to much to ask by onyxruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wikipedia is attempting to index what, the Internet? Wikipedia cites only popular persistant opinions of very narrow political persuasions. Pick a contorversial topic, it doesn't matter what it is, said writing is full of bias presented as fact often bordering or outright propoganda. I have a problem when people assume that popular persistent opinions somehow equal truth, accuracy or science. I'm not the one who cited something. Besides, since when has it ever been prudent to ask readers of a story to provide their own cites? I have done technical writing in one form or another for a decade now, providing a reliable cite is par for the course. Your not one of those that thinks people have a duty to update wikipedia are you?

  4. The requirements... by physicsphairy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If "a kilogram of hydrogen is equivalent in energy to a gallon of gasoline" then, estimating about 400 million gallons of gas per day used by the US, we will need 10 million acres of algae farm. That is with the assumption that they obtain their optimal output, and no additional energy is expended for processing, transport, etc.

    By contrast, an average nuclear power plant produces 1000 megawatts of energy. Also assuming optimum efficiency, we get (10^9 joules pers second * (60 * 60 *24) seconds per day / (237.1*10^3 joules to electrolyze 1 mole of hydrogen at 298K) * 1.01 grams/mole = 368,047 kilograms of hydrogen per day.

    So... 10 nuclear plants, or 10 million acres of algae farm?

    Let's not forget that your algae farm will stop photosynthesizing when it's cloudy out.

    1. Re:The requirements... by eniac42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hmm.. Or for 10 Gigawatts, you could use a solar plant about 10x10 miles in the Nevada desert. This sceme http://www.reuk.co.uk/Nevada-Solar-One.htm Delivers 64 Mw for 350 acres = 45 watts per sqr meter. 10 x10 miles = 260 000 000 m2, x 45 (watts) = 11.7 GigaWatt supply. Yup ok, day only - but you are charging car batteries, so you could work out a scheme that does that in the day. They reckon it costs around $0.07/Kwh.

      You are right on one thing though - probably better to just generate & use electricity directly than to mess about with Hydrogen, etc. Think of all the plastic/glass you would need to contain the algea and collect the gas..

      --
      "A nation that forgets its past is doomed to repeat it." - Churchill
    2. Re:The requirements... by grimJester · · Score: 2, Informative

      The US has around 940 million acres of farmland (source). A single percent of this would be enough to fuel all the cars in the country. It's not necessarily the most efficient option but certainly doable.

  5. Re:Give me figures. by Zouden · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Get a few of these mutants made, let em breed, and harness the work.

    A major reason why this won't ever be as economical as biodiesel production is that this requires mutant algae, as you said. This means the culture needs to be kept isolated from the outside world to keep it pure (the mutants have reduced fitness compared to wildtype algae).
    Biodiesel, on the other hand, is produced by wildtype algae that are capable of holding their own against competing organisms.
    If I had more time, I'd dig up photos of the respective bioreactor design. Hydrogen production requires sealed, sterile, glass containers, while biodiesel production simply requires an irrigated ditch.
    --
    "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
  6. Re:Give me figures. by RsG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do people keep saying this? It's like they don't actually understand why fossil fuels contribute to the greenhouse effect.

    Look, carbon that's locked away underground in the form of fossil fuels isn't part of the carbon cycle. It's been sequestered by geological processes for millions of years, removing it from the air. When we dig it up and burn it, we bring it back into circulation. The total amount of airborne carbon increases; the greenhouse effect gets stronger. This is, in a nutshell, anthropic global warming.

    Carbon that's already in the atmosphere can be trapped by photosynthesis. If the plant that trapped the carbon is then burned, or eaten, or even if it just dies and rots, the carbon returns to the air. This is the regular carbon cycle, with or without human intervention, and it doesn't alter the net balance of Co2. It's this process that we employ when we make biodiesel.

    Biodiesel doesn't contribute to global warming. At all. The "bio" part means the hydrocarbons were synthesized from plant matter; the carbon in those hydrocarbons came from airborne Co2. As long as you plant biofuel crops, process them, and burn them, the total amount of airborne Co2 will never increase. Every ounce of carbon added to the air is matched by an ounce of carbon removed from the air by the fuel plantation.

    --
    Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
  7. Re:H2 Panacea by The_Dougster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Once it's produced, how do you store it? I confess that I now (sort of) work for evil "big oil" but I do have some experience with the practicalities of storing and transporting hydrogen.

    Thats a pretty good question there! I'd recommend using Metastable Metallic Hydrogen personally, except there's a small issue that nobody has exactly figured out how to make the stuff yet.

    That being said, I always thought that good old Ammonia (NH4) had some nice potential for hydrogen storage. Its easily liquefied at room temperature. There are a couple issues with Ammonia though. First, it tends to be rather poisonous, such that breathing in a good lung full of the pure gas would probably be fatal. Secondly, its a bit difficult to get it to react in a controlled fashion. Thirdly, it tends to explode violently sometimes, kind of unpredictably I gather. There's no doubt that Ammonia is an energy dense substance; however, exploiting it for a consumer energy material is somewhat problematic.

    A safer alternative would be to saturate a carbon backbone with hydrogens, resulting in some kind of diesel or wax type fuel. That more or less puts us back where we started though, except now we have to expend extra energy to synthesize the stuff rather than just pumping it out of a hole. I suppose when the holes start going dry it might be an option...

    --
    Clickety Click ...
  8. My tech is better! by Chemisor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Let me introduce you to an advanced technology vehicle I've been researching for years. It runs on nothing but pure cellulose in form of grass and so is very environmentally friendly. I call it a "horse". It requires no fossil fuels and is surely the transportation of the future.

    1. Re:My tech is better! by dvice_null · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually horses are not that environment friendly, they produce pollution from both ends.

  9. If this actually turns out to be viable... by Tastecicles · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...then the governments of the developed world will find ways to:

    a. stifle it while there's still fossil fuels to be had (ie with prohibitive taxation)

    b. stifle the technology which utilises it (by classifying it for military use)

    c. bud off private concerns (or use existing military contractors) who then go on a patent grab for said technology, making an example of anyone who tried it (yes, you, Mr. Hobbyist!)

    d. license favoured concerns to (under)develop and (under)utilise the technology until such time as the oil becomes economically nonviable.

    As a side note, I already use photovoltaics and gel storage to power my custom bike (so, sue me, Shell!). While it doesn't go 0-60 at the speed of thought, it does carry me and my laptop at a nice pace (20-40 depending on conditions). No petrol consumption at all there, and I get about two hours off of a cold charge with the panel off.

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  10. transition by zogger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Corn was never meant to be the perpetual energy fuel feedstock. It is being done as a transition fuel feedstock while other technologies, like this algae for instance, or cellulosic ethanol from switchgrass, etc, develop. And it is because we are set up to produce corn (and soybeans) in mass quantities with no infrastructure changes right now today, this season, it's happening. Just like the vehicle changes, we are transitioning from straight gashogs to hybrids to eventually plug in hybrids and hydrogen fuel cells and straight electric drive, but that is still way down the road. This is the tech we have now, that's all, have to start someplace.

    1. Re:transition by SunTzuWarmaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No one ever seems to remember sugar cane and sugar beets, so I'll point it out. They are double the yield per acre (vastly more efficient but harder to grow) as compared to American corn.

      Well that's not entirely true, Brazil didn't forget. But then again, they don't have corn lobbyists.

    2. Re:transition by budgenator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I live in sugar beet country and I can assure you that we didn't forget, I'm also in corn country so that gets a lot of noise as well. The real answer will be more like
      1. grow the corn,
      2. grow the beets,
      3. press out the oils out of the corn for food use,
      4. reclaim the used food stuff oils aned animal fats for biodiesel,
      5 extract the sugars from the corn, feed the distiller's dried grain and roughage back to the cows (makes food and animal fat for step 4)
      6. add beet sugar to the corn sugar and make Butanol instead of inefficient Ethanol
      7. profit!

      I don't think there will ever be a one answer answer; the answer will be multi-use feed the waste of one almost economical process to the next almost economical process.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  11. Re:same question by taricha · · Score: 2

    In general, by genetically modifying something we make it less fit in a survival sense. Look at all the plants and animals we've domesticated for our use by hybridization. They hardly run rampant destroying their wild cousins. In fact they'd be dead without our help, because we've reduced their fitness by making them overproduce some aspect we are interested in. This algae is no different. The modification actually makes each cell absorb less light so it absorbs only what it can use allowing the sunlight to be spread over more cells. So this algae is less competitive than its wild "light-hogging" cousins.

  12. Wikipedia requires some basic understanding by Morgaine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Wikipedia, the concept that persistent opinions are accurate opinions

    Persistent opinions ARE accurate opinions in many fields (to the best of human knowledge), and in other fields they're not.

    The only strong "limitation" of Wikipedia's model is that it requires readers to understand which field falls into which category. If you wish to accuse Wikipedia of not being 100% useful to totally non-perceptive readers, then yes you're right, one would have to agree with you. It's only useful to totally non-perceptive readers when they happen to be reading pages of the first kind, not the second. But those who are perceptive know how much to trust both kinds of article.

    The types of fields in which persistent opinions are accurate opinions are those ruled by verifiable fact, the rule of mathematics and logic, and cooperative progress through explicit reasoning, not through debate. That includes mathematics and logic themselves, plus all the hard sciences and branches of engineering. It excludes almost everything else, even many fields that try to employ logical discourse (eg. about 95% of philosophy is excluded). And even harsher than this, it also excludes personal opinion within the included fields: for example, it excludes personal interpretations in climatology and claimed predictions for the future, while including the very scientific fact finding and analysis in that field of science.

    To those who understand the above, Wikipedia is an invaluable resource, because (apart from occasional human error and abuse, which are both rapidly corrected) the entries are all made cooperatively and all new progress builds upon past progress. Thus, the entries that persist represent the current peak of human understanding.

    This contrasts markedly with the other kind of fields, in which personal opinion, claimed experience, authoritative position, and vocal statements matter. Yes, you can't trust anything that you read in those fields on Wikipedia, but that's not Wikipedia's problem. You can't trust what you read about those field on any other forum or means of communication either.

    So, if you have a problem with trusting Wikipedia, it's either because you work in fields of the second kind (and hence you're part of the problem), or else because you fail to understand how human endeavour is split into those two very different categories and so you don't apply suitably varying degrees of trust.

    It's your problem, not ours on the science and engineering side. Wikipedia serves us well.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
    1. Re:Wikipedia requires some basic understanding by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, beliefs in the hard sciences are not ruled by verifiable fact, at least not when you get beyond the very basics.

      Um, the hard sciences *are* the very basics because they're directly verifiable.

      One cannot verify that all matter is made of tiny vibrating strings, ...

      Which is why string theory isn't science.

      ... or that the moon was formed from the collision of Earth with a smaller planet, ...

      If by "verify", you mean, "we can't go back in time to witness it", yes.

      ... or that human activity is the primary cause of global warming.

      And if by "verify", you mean, "simplify global climate into a simple, testable experiment", yes. You can merely verify most (if not all) of the factors that make up the theory.

      All scientists can do is develop more hypotheses, test them, and use those results to support, fine tune, or occasionally throw out their theories.

      Reasonably true.

      So the belief that persistent opinions are accurate ones is actually very dangerous to science.

      That's hardly the case. The problem is when hypotheses or conjectures are taken as accurate (instead of merely well-informed guesses) or when theories, after being disproven, are still viewed as accurate (even innaccurate ones (general relativity) can be useful when one recognizes and works around those innacuracies). Or, put another way, the very dangerous to science is when people think science always has an answer, instead of taking a more nuanced view of the situation (which is often, "I don't know").

      But anyways, you miss the main problem with the wikipedia. It is not that it is often inaccurate or that it pushes the idea that popularity means accuracy.

      Correction. It pushes the idea that eventually enough people will see problems and issue changes to correct those problems. The point of accuracy is supposed to come not from popularity but through proper citation (which itself is based squarely on verifiability, to the point that verifiability is more important than accuracy).

      Those are disturbing consequences of it, but not the main problem. The biggest problem is that it is a tertiary source. This means that like an encyclopedia article, it makes for a very bad citation. The purpose of tertiary sources is to serve as an easy way to look things up and get a quick overview, they do not replace real research.

      Perhaps you hadn't considered that that's what people view Wikipedia as? Consider that, instead of linking to a source directly, one can instead alter Wikipedia to include that source (assuming, of course, that the source is appropriate (ie, that it serves better than existing sources)) and link to the article so that you not only receive the source but also *other* sources as well. Of course, it might be wise to include Wikipedia *and* an appropriate source.

      In fact it is insulting to give a link to the wikipedia to explain whatever it is you are talking about (like the submitter of this story did) because the implication is that the readers are too stupid to do a wikipedia search.

      I somewhat agree. But, one of the main points of /. (and the web, in general) is to provide an easy means of linking things. Of course, one could aruge that such easy linking is something more suited for a web browser extension. Or, one could go to google news as a stream of news articles to filter through to find your own sources and avoid /. completely. In fact, googling something can be trivially easy at times, to the point that one could argue that citing anything is to mock one's audience. Clearly that's not true. So, while Wikipedia might not be the best source (directly), t

      --
      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
  13. True but needs a little refining by Flying+pig · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is absolutely true provided that oil is not needed to fuel the processing. Currently, for instance, ethanol production in the US requires a very significant input of oil. Therefore, while demand for energy is increasing, satisfying some of that demand with ethanol will only at best reduce the slope of the release curve.

    This ceases to be true when biofuels become totally self sufficient. This means that fertiliser plants, the plants that manufacture everything used in the biofuel production cycle, storage etc., are all being entirely fuelled by their own product.

    For this reason, for many years to come, biodiesel has to be the preferred route. This is because the huge installed base of plant can mostly run on it; you can do process heating with biodiesel as well as run generators, trucks and ships. You can, as it were, bootstrap the biodiesel economy, whereas you cannot bootstrap the ethanol or hydrogen economies. Steel plants and machine shops cannot run on either.

    Hydrogen is attractive to the vehicle industry not because it is efficient but because it requires replacement of the entire vehicle fleet and would provide a boost to the industry. Biodiesel allows the existing fleet to be replaced much more slowly, with the same emissions benefits.

    One of the simplest ways to reduce anthropogenic global warming is just to use less energy. One of the best ways to do that is to make consumer durables last longer, and make them out of readily recyclable materials. But that threatens the entire basis of the US-Chinese industrial complex, whereas hydrogen offers it greatly increased opportunities to expand.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
  14. Re:Give me figures. by norton_I · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Biodiesel production also requires (or at least prefers) carefully bred strains with high oil production. This also leads to somewhat reduced fitness. Probably not as big a deal as these hydrogen producers, but still an issue.

    What I can't seem to get anyone to explain is why we want a hydrogen economy anyway. Liquid fuel for vehicles seems like a much better plan. The only reason to go hydrogen is if you want to fuel vehicles with coal or nuclear plants, and even then, I think it is a better plan to convert they hydrogen to methane or methanol at the generation facility. Biodisel, on the other hand, seems nearly the optimal motor fuel.

    Transportation, storage, transfer, and use of hydrogen are all difficult. All of those problems are solvable, but it seems like unnecessary cost and complexity to me.

  15. Can you get enough sun light and CO2? by cyfer2000 · · Score: 2

    Can you get enough sun light and CO2 in your backyard?

    Assuming you have 10 square meters yard, the sun shine's energy input is 1000W per square meter, you get 10 hours of sun shine per day, then you have 100,000Wh energy input. Assume 10% photosynthesis energy convert efficiency (this assumption is too high, 1%-5% is better but for the ease of calculation, I will use 10%), you will get 10,000Wh energy into hydrogen, that's 36MJ.

    One kilogram of hydrogen has 143MJ of energy. Then to produce 1kg of hydrogen, you will need 40 sqare meters of yard, to produce 4 kg of hydrogen, you will need 160 square meters of yard, that's 1700 sqare feet. Remember we are assuming 1000W sun light input and 10% conversion here, both are too high.

    I don't think we need to calculate the CO2 input now.

    --
    There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
  16. Omits depth of shit considerations by Flying+pig · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The downside of the horse is that it is unsuited to high density urban environments. Not without reason is the horseman a symbol of the aristocracy. If New York or London had the same horse population as they currently have cars, nothing would move because of the height of the horse dung (and no technical solution to removing it without powered transport.) Even in 18th century England, there was a profitable occupation in large cities of "crossing-sweeper", i.e. somebody who cleaned the dung off a section across roads and charged pedestrians for the right to cross.

    That's without considering that the entire planet would be given over to growing grass. Unlike cars, horses consume a lot of fuel even when going nowhere. You have to be quite well off to be an Amish.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
  17. Re:Give me figures. by jstomel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    First you have to look at the carbon used to make the biofuels - some will be used for fertiliser, tractors, transport, etc. Biodiesel production is cheap, easy, spontaneous, and produces no harmful waste. If your starting source is lipids from algae (as GP was talking about) then you need no fertilizer or tractors. And to be honest, you're transporting fuel. Transport isn't carbon input, it just decreases the net yield a bit because you use some of the fuel to transport the rest.

    Also if you are using plant matter that currently is being left to rot back into to the soil, (as proposed) then you are burning carbon that would otherwise be sequestrated - and stripping the soil of natural nutrients - and so on. Plant matter that rots back into the soil releases it's carbon into the aptmosphere through the rotting process. It actually takes very special circumstances (peat bogs and whatnot) to sequester the carbon long term. And what was proposed was not using plant matter, but algae. Algae do not live in the soil and do not strip it of nutrients.

    You also need to use water resources which are increasingly scarce, and land which can be used for food - again world food demand is on the increase. Again, none of these things really apply to biodiesal from algae. Why does everyone trot out these arguments that apply only to corn and soy and act as if they apply broadly to all biofuels?

    From what I have seen of the maths so far, biofuels only capture a few percent of Solar power net, so there is simply not enough spare arable land in the world to make enough fuel - especially as countries like India and China ramp up demand for cars. There is still plenty of sunny unused desert for Solar, or offshore sites for Wind, not to mention Tidal, Wave, etc.. Just use the power in its original Photon->Electron form, and bypass Carbon & Hydrogen altogether.. Because the infrastructure for using biofuels is already in place. It would take almost 20-40 years to replace the vehicle fleet already in place with electric cars. We need a solution that we can start to apply today. Also, all the energy sources you mention (wind, tidal, wave, etc) are ultimately driven by solar power. For the most part they are less efficient converters of solar energy into human usable forms than biofuels. Current solar panels are expensive, fragile, toxic to manufacture (they release arsenic and heavy metals into ground water), and not much more efficient than biofuels. Algae for the most part take care of their own production and upkeep and are environmentally friendly.
  18. Chlamydomonas by primenerd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I work on Chlamydomonas (single celled eukaryotic algae) biochemistry.
    These little fellas are tough. Give them a few basic nutrients (phosphates, trace minerals) sunlight and air and they will grow like weeds. They can be autotrophic (using light) or heterotrophic if you give them a carbon source (like those found in sewage and agricultural waste). People have also had great success growing these by bubbling the exhaust from incinerators through liquid cultures (exhaust is rich in CO2 and NOx which Chlamy can use). Chlamy has been extensively studied (the genome of C. reinhardtii has been sequenced) and there is a huge library of mutants already available. I saw a presentation at an algae conference last year by people working on this. Holy grail is getting hydrogen while they are growing, then extract oil.
    Best of all, they are completely harmless (trust me, if they were in any way dangerous I would be dead by now).
    Algal biodiesel and butanol from agricultural waste are our best hope. Ethanol from food crops is basically a big give-away to agribusiness companies. While hydrogen is promising, biologically derived liquid hydrocarbons can take advantage of the extensive infrastructure that has been built for petroleum fuels.

    --
    AUGAUUUGCGCACAUAUCUCAGCGAAUGAAAGGGAUUAA