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D.C. Commuters to be Scanned With Infrared Cameras
owlgorithm writes "Washington, D.C. area commuters are going to be "scanned like groceries at the supermarket" in order to catch single-occupant vehicles who are illegally using carpool lanes. The article, from the Washington Post, says that infrared cameras capable of detecting human skin will be installed, rather than the visible-spectrum cameras in use today. So much for using dummies in the front seat."
A local municipal government agency, using technology to solve a problem, as part of its charge to the public?
O, the humanity!
If we get rid of dummies in the front seat, half of the cars on my way to work would be driverless.
is watching you...
Remember, the ultimate goal of these politicians is to have such a dizzying array of laws that they can arrest anyone at any time and always have a "legitimate" reason.
Cameras only help them.
Care about privacy? Read this!
1 - Have a machine vision backend analyze images coming back from cameras, picking out "guilty" cars along with their plates. Discard other data.
2 - Ensure that the code used for this vision system is open to public scrutiny.
3 - Catch the crooks, and the regular folk don't even get recorded to a hard drive at any point.
4 - ???
5 - You know the rest...
...that a few things will happen:
1. Burqa-wearing folk will have a field day.
2. Some ninny will don tin-foil to jack with the system. He/she will later collapse from heat.
or
3. Some enterprising yob will try to create a heated, moving dummy. This will culminate in a video shot on the news: "Flaming Car Of Doom in a HOV lane near you....film at 11!"
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Put a dog in the front seat. And shave him.
You can't take the sky from me...
Youngsters these days and their high-tech solutions. Yeesh.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
Hannibal Lecter: "Why do you think he removes their skins, Agent Starling?"
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on
No, no, no. You're going about this the wrong way. You've gotta put yourself in the freezer so it looks like nobody's driving. Then they can't give you a ticket, because according to the cameras, you don't exist.
I've used the HOV lane into DC with a child in an infant seat behind me. The camera isn't going to spot that.
Am I going to have to get sworn affidavits stating the child was with me? Should I take photos on my journey? Are HOV lanes 18+ now?
Actually, this is a serious problem.
HOV lanes are usually created in order to reduce traffic congestion problems, by encouraging people to car-pool, use public transit, cycle, or walk. The alternatives are less desirable: paying even more money to expand and maintain road networks with higher capacity, or to deal with health problems created by the dumping of combustion by products (particulate matter, nitrous oxides, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, etc.). The latter is a non-trivial problem.
This is not about cheating the system, though some may think of it as such. It is about using municipal resources efficiently and saving lives.
I understand that in certain places, carpool lanes have been abandoned because the number of drivers who use them is so low that they effectively take an entire lane away from the highways, and cause more congestion in the remaining lanes, thus worsening the problem. I really believe that it's entirely about the money, and the real asshats are the jackholes that came up with the idea of the carpool lane. Most tickets are written to generate revenue, not to improve safety or traffic flow. If someone can get away with "cheating" this system, then they become a sort of modern day Robin Hood in my book.
Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
Human beings have a rather unique IR signature that is very easily distinguishable from other heat sources.
Human beings also have a rather unique ability to find creative ways to beat challenges like that.
Random and weird software I've written.
HOV lanes are fairly pointless as is. It's clear that people are not significantly incentivized to use the carpool lanes. Moreover, conflicting schedules (particularly after work) and the impossibility of spontaneity provide heavy disincentives toward their use. They certainly don't cut down on pollution or fuel consumption as cars spend more time stuck in traffic in the adjacent lanes, or taking longer, more circuitous routes. They don't cut down on traffic, as more cars are forced to fit in fewer lanes. People who live in Arlington or Falls Church, especially, could have to go miles out of the way to get to work, despite having a major traffic artery in their back yards.
The money spent on policing, enforcement, and, in some cases, construction and maintenance of elaborate switching mechanisms to change the direction of traffic in center lanes, could be more efficiently spent toward carbon offsets, and opening the lanes themselves to normal traffic would better accomplish the goal of reducing congestion. Or make the Metro train free to ride; it's already heavily subsidized anyway, and everyone would benefit from increased use. (Of course, capacity would likely need to be increased as well, since they're heavily used already).
Regulating the routes of traffic in an effort to decrease traffic is an exercise in futility. It merely relocates the problem; it does nothing to alleviate it. Traffic is already self-regulating, especially as the distribution of information becomes increasingly streamlined. When one route slows down, people take alternate routes. If the distribution is inequitable, it's because of poor infrastructure design in relation to the population. The cure is redesign, not banishing the overwhelming majority of vehicles from the shortest route between Point A and Point B. It would be one thing if HOV was a stopgap while more effective measures were implemented, but as it stands, it's merely contributing to the problem it claims to resolve.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Yes, yes, I know, they don't really specify... ...but hopefully you realize the idea and spirit of HOV lanes is for carpool, multiple passenger commuter, busses, passenger vans, and similar applications, and not someone who happens to be toting a child in an infant seat. :-/
(How did the parent get modded "Insightful"?)
Are you saying, then, that a parent and child don't qualify for "two or more people" in the car? When did minors stop being people?
Good, inexpensive web hosting
I'm saying, then, that the idea and spirit of HOV lanes is for carpool, multiple passenger commuter, busses, passenger vans, and similar applications, and not someone who happens to be toting a child in an infant seat.
I hope this clears things up.
And to be serious, I don't know what the specific law is in Virginia, Maryland, or Washington, DC, for HOV/HOT lanes. But the idea, purpose, and principle is what I said above, not for someone to be able to get somewhere faster or more conveniently because they have a child with them.
Think about how you'd write the code for the machine. Your job is to count -- you have to find at least two distinct signatures. If you find more than one that is distinct, you ignore that car. If you find less than one, what do you do? Probably you consider this a detection error. A thermally reflective glass coating would work. I'd bet a heat pack hand warmer on the dashboard would do it too.
If it were me, I'd try a thermal hand warmer pack on the dashboard by the passenger seat; and maybe one each on a string in the back seat about where heads would be for back seat passengers.
Remember, glass is transparent in the visual spectrum, but can be opaque in the infrared. I know this from using Thermal Imaging Cameras in houses that are on fire. A big living room window can look just like a wall -- or even a mirror -- through the screen of a TIC depending on what outside temperature. You can see the shape of a person on the TIC when what you're looking at is a porcelain shower stall. Your own heat is being reflected back at you.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
http://www.ncdot.org/projects/hov/faqs.html#q2
Do children and infants count as passengers?
Yes. All states with HOV facilities count children and infants as passengers.
Why do children count as passengers in the HOV lane?
The main law governing HOV lane use is WAC 468-510-010. This law merely states "occupants." HOVs may therefore include passengers who are not licensed drivers. These can include senior citizens, people with disabilities, and children as well as other people who do not, or can not, obtain a drivers license for various reasons.
HOVs with non-licensed passengers do not always help to remove cars from traffic. However, one of the Department's considerations in determining HOV eligibility policy is the degree to which the policy will be enforceable by the State Patrol. It can already be challenging to accurately determine how many occupants are in a vehicle. It would be much more difficult, and more expensive, to additionally be required to determine occupant age or licensing status. Another consideration is that carpools are sometimes driven by parents or caretakers who transport groups of children to activities. This does keep additional vehicles off the road.
http://www.rtc.wa.gov/Studies/Archive/hov/faq.htm#Q12
Why are people with children allowed to use the HOV lane?
HOV policies everywhere have allowed children to be counted as occupants of a carpool to meet the necessary occupancy requirement. While children may not be of driving age, there are two major reasons that we allow people with children to use the HOV lane: school and day care responsibilities and the idea of educating our children regarding ridesharing. Often, it is difficult to drop kids off at day care, drive to a park-and-ride, catch the bus, and get to work on time. Allowing parents to bring their kids along with them in the carpool, or on the bus, gives them an opportunity to use the HOV lane. This also keeps enforcing the lane very simple: two or more people per car.
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
...be able to get somewhere faster or more conveniently because they have a child with them Less time on the road? Yes.Less time overall including the 20+ minutes of saying, "Let's go! Let's go! Don't hide your sister's shoes!"?????? Fat chance.
[waves paw] Bah!
--
dman123 forever!
Filtering out the -1s and 0s since 1999.
That's not how the law is written, it just says that you must have two or more people in the car. Now, if you want to change it to "two or more licensed drivers," that's another issue, and opens up a nasty can of worms about enforcement.
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Depends on the frequency of IR, glass is defenetly clear Near-IR, as I have tons of near-IR pictures I took through the windshield and side windows of cars.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
study that suggests hov lanes don't work.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
The same should apply to taxis with a single passenger. They should not be allowed to use the party lane unless there are more than one passenger.
I car-pool to work every day, and it pisses me off to no end when single occupant vehicles use the HOV lane, but then, I'm an asshole so I like to report them. The driver doesn't get cited, but he does get a nasty-gram through the mail courtesy of WSP.
A One that isn't cold, is scarcely a One at all.
>>habius corpus
I knew all that my latin in highschool would be useful for something. I just never dared to hope it would be something as important as correcting trivial errors on Slashdot!
Here goes:
Habius might a singular genitive of an irregular noun, or a masculine second family nominate noun, but either way, it isn't "habeas" which is a subjunctive 2nd person singular verb meaning "may you have" [the body].
That felt great. Hail Caesar!
Relax I just want some peanuts.
and you wonder why no one wants to carpool with you...
... through glass (which is almost totally reflective for the long wave ir cameras that i've used). i wonder if there's something special about the glass they use in vehicles...
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
Not a problem. I got over-enthusiastic. She overflowed. Now, at least, I have a pool in my car.
UTF-8: There and Back Again
The real question is, can it detect BODIES? DEAD BODIES???
**insert evil laugh here***
You like to report them because you're an asshole.
-jcr
I typically don't defend assholes, but the two sentences are grammatically equivalent. One is written Cause --> Effect; the other, Effect ^-- Cause. Another slipup like this might get you sent back to Grammar Nazi boot camp. Achtung!
khasim (12/9/06): In a blind taste test, more people preferred Coke over the Pepsi that I had previously pissed in.
If Mick Jagger and his ex drive in a HOV lane they'll get fined: I'm so hot and she's so cold - cold like a tooooomb stone...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Udall's Fourth Law: Any change or reform you make is going to have consequences you don't like.
Straight from the slashdot quotes, very convenient. Now the problem with techy solutions, and the reason slashdot geeks will always be skeptical of them, leading to other geeks making fun of the said skepticism as a sort of mature outlook on the matter - the problem is that technology always has loopholes:
You introduce a harmless little thing like an IR based camera solution and suddenly people buy thin, invisible, heated coating for their seats or windshields that will fool your nifty little cam for a little cost. Camera tech evolves to identify human heat signatures using pattern matching techniques on the images. Spoofing tech evolves to comply. Police begin searches of cars... do you see where this is going?
I live (and go to grad school) in DC; I honor the code, everybody I know does, and HOV lanes almost never get blocked because of violators, AFAIK. If they do, then maybe the troopers on the road, instead of being busy tossing salad, can keep an eye out for infractions and produce solid cases that nobody can contend. Humans are good for some things. Use them. Automating criminalization is not easy, and should be avoided when possible.
Speaking as a DC area commuter who takes I-95 in Virginia everyday, this is a great idea.
When traffic is heavy, any small distraction can turn into a back-up as the flow phase changes from movement to stoppage.
So on I-95, cops patrol the HOV lanes, and when they find a violator they turn on their lights and pull the miscreant over.
Meanwhile, the very action of turning on their lights and pulling the miscreant over slows down the traffic in the non-HOV lanes, leading to a back-up.
I'd much prefer that HOV violators are detected by camera and mailed tickets than stopped by a police car.
In DC/northern Virginia, and probably elsewhere, they're called "Slug Lines". Very employed people use them, and whole parking lots are set up near the interstate for people to park, and wait in line for another commuter to take them the rest of the way to DC via the HOV lane. Web sites are available to help arrange car pools if you don't like hopping in with just anyone. The biggest slug line downtown is probably at the Pentagon, but I think there are others. I don't know if Maryland has any.
This makes a whole lot more sense because it actually reduces the number of cars on the road. The HOV lanes are silly anyway, they need a Metro Bus system that doesn't scare away everyone but those with no choice. Or maybe better Metro (light rail) and VRE (commuter train) access. To get to a train station in northern Virginia, you usually have to drive fifteen minutes away from the interstate, through twisty two lane roads, four way stops, and even G^d d*mned subdivisions with 15MPH limits. Every day after work, people huddle near the train doors as it stops, and run to their cars to get out of the parking lot as fast as they can. Few have the luxury of being the first to wait in traffic on the main road or interstate while the rest curse the stupid road planning for what would otherwise be a perfect alternative to spending three hours driving thirty miles up the interstate.
They're just automating an inspection that could have been performed by cops on the ground. I know because I got a ticket for driving in the stupid carpool lane once. And you're already in public in a vehicle where you're, at most, shielded from plain view by a bit of glass. Which is to say you're not shielded from plain view.
So, unless law enforcement plans to use this technology to see something it's not already capable of seeing, e.g. using it to see through the walls of your home, I don't think this is a big deal.
So many suggested avoidance schemes, but haven't any of you actually thought that maybe you could just car pool instead? Easy solution and so much better for the environment. Plus you might actually get some stimulating conversation on the way rather than the inane radio DJ chatter ;-)
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
It's the people who won't obey traffick rules who are assholes, not the people who report them. I've been nearly killed numerous times by cretins who run the red light, go over the speed limit, take a shortcut through the left line in left turns, won't use the turn signal, drive through crossroads without any regard for other traffick, just have to pass the car in front of them despite there being incoming traffick, jump from line to line randomly, etc.
Fine them till they go banckrupt, then lock them away for life and throw away the key. Or at the very least take away their licenses and damn cars. The roads aren't a fucking playground, they're a public utility, and screwing up there gets people killed. The traffick rules should be enforced with the fervor appropriate to the risks breaking them causes; namely, they should be enforced as matters of life and death, since they are.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Doctor: ... misuse of the cadavers-
Dr. Nick: I get here faster when I drive in the car pool lane.
-- The doctor said I wouldn't get so many nose bleeds if I just kept my finger out of there!
Dog Body Heat = 1 standard human commuter unit.
And anyway, Falls Churchians and Arlingtonians have plenty of roads other than 66 to choose from. Hell, you can't even get onto 66 going Eastbound from half of Arlington, anyhow. more efficiently spent toward carbon offsets I've never understood this whole carbon offsets thing. Is there any actual legal framework with teeth in place to force emitters to purchase "carbon credits"?
Even if there was such a thing, I would be against it for this purpose. Why should we prefer to spend our "carbon emition" resources on ParkingLot-66 as opposed to actual production of useful goods? To me, that seems wasteful. Or make the Metro train free to ride; it's already heavily subsidized anyway, and everyone would benefit from increased use. DC Metro is already at capacity. You seem to be familiar with Northern VA, so you've probably heard the term "Orange Crush". The Blue line is at capacity as well.
There really isn't much more that Metro can do to increase capacity. They're already running many 8 car trains. What metro really needs to do, that they will never do, is add more tracks. Currently, if there is one "sick passenger" on one train in one direction, the entire metro system gets brought to its knees. This is because that line will have to single-track (trains going in both directions on one track), and the resulting slowdown gums up the other lines as well.
At any rate, I disagree with your assertion that HOV won't change behavior. I know plenty of people who HOV when they otherwise would not. Slug lines further support this position.
What I think may screw the whole thing up is these HOT lanes. I mean, really. People in NoVA have way more money than time. Why should I bother to pick up slugs if I can just pay $5 or whatever and not even have to slow down?
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock