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White House Lauds MN RIAA Win, Analysis of Victory

cnet-declan writes "The Bush administration's copyright czar says the RIAA's $222,000 recent jury verdict against a Minnesota woman shows copyright law is 'effective' and working as planned. C|Net's coverage has comments from Chris Israel, the U.S. Coordinator for International Intellectual Property Enforcement. Israel is formerly a senior Commerce Department official appointed by President Bush in July 2005 who previously worked for Time Warner's public policy arm (Warner Bros. Records is one of the plaintiffs in the RIAA case). The site also features an interview with Rep. Rick Boucher, no fan of the RIAA, on whether Congress will change the law, an analysis of why U.S. copyright law is broken, and four reasons why the RIAA won."

75 of 368 comments (clear)

  1. Par for the course by MrCopilot · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Yep sounds like this White House. Corporations 1 Billion, Consumers/Citizens Who?

    --
    OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
    1. Re:Par for the course by mastershake_phd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep sounds like this White House. Corporations 1 Billion, Consumers/Citizens Who?

      Since when do they comment on this stuff? I'm surprised they didn't comment on the Vonage loss against that bullshit patent. Or everytime a bullshit patent is enforced. On second thought maybe they try to stay neutral in Corporation vs Corporation matters.

    2. Re:Par for the course by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm the last person to defend the Bush regime, but bear in mind the phrase "copyright law is effective and working as planned" means "we see no need to tighten copyright law and create yet more insane crap, like the DMCA, to help copyright owners defend their copyrights."

      If the industry had lost the case, given that P2P copying of music without the copyright holder's authorization is rampant, you can bet the fact would have been used in the intense lobbying to impose still more draconian copyright laws and penalties. That lobbying is going on now, the government is being told that existing laws are inadequate and need to be tightened. The music industry's win is an ironic defeat for that lobby. If the music industry can defend its copyrights using the existing legal tools, then there is little reason to provide them with more.

      The biggest argument for more draconian copyright laws is rampant copyright infringement. Unfortunately, many in the tech community do not see that and think that laws get over-turned when people ignore them: with few exceptions, that attitude flies in the face of history. Those promoting copyright infringement are doing those who want to see a free exchange of information and genuinely fair use of, and improved access to, everything else no favors whatsoever.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    3. Re:Par for the course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      bear in mind the phrase "copyright law is effective and working as planned" means "we see no need to tighten copyright law and create yet more insane crap, like the DMCA, to help copyright owners defend their copyrights."
      That's the good half of the meaning. The bad half of the meaning is that it also means "we intended for courts to award damages of 100,000 times the cost of stolen goods, and for a single mom to be bankrupted for stealing 23 music tracks."

      Magna Carta, the first Constitution in the history of the common law on which our great Republic is built, stated that "every freeman shall be fined in proportion to his fault; and no fine shall be levied on him to his utter ruin." Sad to see that in Bush's America this apparently only applies to freemen, not single moms.
    4. Re:Par for the course by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Sad to see that in Bush's America this apparently only applies to freemen, not single moms"

      Whilst I agree that the magna carta is at the roots of modern democracy and the RIAA are a bunch of souless pricks, "freemen" was a restrictive term back then and did not include women, children or slaves.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    5. Re:Par for the course by yincrash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yet now all these people are considered free due to our own legal system, so your point seems moot.

    6. Re:Par for the course by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When the visibility is this high, and the corporation has bribed, eerrr lobbied, this hard its not surprising to see the government ( i wont say 'bush', this sort of nonsence is a government issue in general, not an administration issue ) comment on it.

      Sort of like the 'war on drugs', or 'war on big tobacco', ( and soon, 'big snack food' ) you can expect public comments.

      I say its time for us citizens to have a 'war on RIAA', and take no prisoners. Start with voting out anyone that in the least supports this. Show them we are displeased with their being purchased and no longer looking out for their constituents.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    7. Re:Par for the course by ZorinLynx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is anyone surprised?

      It's time to move on, people.

      Every last one of you better be at the f**king polls next year.

    8. Re:Par for the course by sexybomber · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "every freeman shall be fined in proportion to his fault; and no fine shall be levied on him to his utter ruin.


      The only "freemen" left in this country, the only people who can truly exercise freedom, are the CEOs. So yes, no fine shall be levied on our CEOs to their utter ruin. Can't have that. That would bring America to its knees. Look at all the shady, corrupt businessmen who proverbially get away with murder almost daily.

      But as for your typical American citizen, no, we're not free. We haven't been for some time now. So the punishments for ordinary citizens, the little cogs in the great machine, don't have to fit the crime. Sorry to burst your bubble, dude.
    9. Re:Par for the course by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When a crooked, bought government says that laws need no tightening it only means they are already tightened way beyond sanity.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:Par for the course by ZoneGray · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ya have to remember that many of the goodies to copyright holders were handed out by the previous Democrat administration. In better times, Republicans would take a more libertarian stance. Unfortunately, current Republicans have become reflexively "pro-business" instead of favoring free markets. However, if you expect any change when Hollywood's preferred party comes to power.... forget it.

      Now... if I were a stockholder listening to these media companies outline their strategy, my first question would be... "Okay, so you're going to stop piracy. That's fine. Now how are you going to sell product?"

      Somehow, it's as if the CEOs believe the lawyers' arguments that they'd actually sell $222,000 worth of product if they could stop this woman from pirating. How freaking dumb to you have to be to believe that?

      Fact is, they could totally eliminate online piracy, and they'd still be unable to make money selling CD's, and the old record companies show NO skill whatsoever at selling downloads. You can't create value by making your product harder to use. They can extract a little cash, but, to paraphrase Keynes... in the long run, the record companies are all dead.

    11. Re:Par for the course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >200,000 is not to ruin. Sorry. It's huge, but she can certainly pay it in a decade or two.

      I guess you make a lot more than the average American to have that view.

      Poverty level is generally accepted in the USA to be anything below $10,210. This is assumed to be the minimum required to survive without incurring further debt (students, as many might point out as making far less and surviving, are often incurring future debt in the USA). Obviously, no lender will lend to a woman in $200,000 debt.

      So, to pay the $200,000 in debt, plus statutory interest in MN (6% yearly), over one decade, she will need to make $271,735.90, to be repaid in yearly amounts of $27,173.59.

      The average wage in MN is $41,326 per year (2006 figure). Subtracting from this that she is a woman, and therefore earns a lower average wage (about 15% less, now only $35,127.10) and subtracting taxes (7.05% MN tax equalling $2,476.46, $4,220 base federal tax + $1,119.28 additional) leaving $27,311.36 remaining income. Subtracting the poverty line from this, this leaves $17,101.36 in disposable income.

      Assuming all disposable income is funneled to repaying her debt to society, on average, a woman in her situation will remain in absolute poverty for 21 years repaying the debt. She will repay a total sum of $357,019.11.

      So, in retrospect, you're right. It's only fair someone remain in conditions only marginally better than prison for about 1 year per song copied. Right? And you're also right, she will, on average, be able to repay it in two decades.

      Hopefully, though, she is also of average age for a Minnesotan (36). This will permit her, when she has repaid her debt (at age 57), to save for retirement (at age 65) for 8 years. This should mean she will die absolutely penniless and homeless, but able to not end up on any form of social assistance. Dying penniless is absolutely the right punishment for having "stolen" so much music.

      Of course, that's all assuming everything is average. Should she have children, she will need to go bankrupt, as at this point the poverty line increase is about $3,400 for each dependent, which, if she had an average amount of children (2) would cause the load to be unrepayable at statutory interest rates (calculate it yourself, if you like) as the payments would not cover interest on the loan itself. But, again, it's only fair FCS takes the children away from such an unfit mother that stole so much music. No woman deserves to have children if they pirate music. Ever.

    12. Re:Par for the course by nurb432 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wouldnt say NO ONE .. but i do agree the % is skewed towards the techies.

      I know several non techies that are terrified to download something ( if they even knew how they wouldnt ), completely due to RIAA marketing. Which will get one hell of a boost from this judgement.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    13. Re:Par for the course by penix1 · · Score: 2
      OK, I'll bite...Let's do this one at a time...

      Q1: Do you support the right of persons, groups, companies and corporations to own intellectual property?

      It depends on what you mean by the nebulous phrase "intellectual property". If by that you are asking if I believe that thoughts can be property, the answer is no. The only reason for the laws governing thoughts is to encourage the publication of those thoughts. I argue that our current crop of laws has the opposite effect especially when, more often than not, the one with the thought isn't the one who has control over that thought.

      Q2: If yes to Q1, do you then agree that these entities are entitled to determine the use and distribution of their property within existing commercial statutes?

      That was a no to your first question but given that the author isn't the one who has control over distribution in our current scheme, this one is moot. Distribution in our current scheme is in the hands of large corporate conglomerates that have a tight hold on the distribution channels. This gives them an unequal position at the bargaining table. Don't sign over all rights, don't get distributed. Those are the choices facing the authors. It gets worse with patents.

      Q3: Of what value would the commercial statutes be if they weren't backed by force of law?

      Not all value is measured by the almighty dollar.

      Q4: Should the laws be applied differently based on a person's socio-economic status?

      They already are. Those with the gold make the laws. To apply an old saying, we have the best politicians money can buy. And just who is looking out for the public domain in all this struggle to control thoughts?
      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    14. Re:Par for the course by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hit post too fast, i also wanted to include the RIAA ( and to a lesser extent, the BSA and its friends ) marketing has also scared common people away from truly free stuff. be it music or software.

      "if its free, its gotta be stealng" " if its free software, its no good and full of viruses" " how do they get paid, it must not be legal" etc.. Its really hard to explain to people at times who are programmed by the spin. The TV is a powerful device to sway the public.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    15. Re:Par for the course by Zeinfeld · · Score: 2, Interesting
      That's the good half of the meaning. The bad half of the meaning is that it also means "we intended for courts to award damages of 100,000 times the cost of stolen goods, and for a single mom to be bankrupted for stealing 23 music tracks."

      Well what do you expect from this President, compassion?

      This is the guy who used to enjoy a good execution in Texas and has made use of torture US state policy. He thinks that Enron shows only that accounting laws are too strict.

      Last week he vetoed an act to extend health care coverage to poor kids. And you think carrying water for the RIAA is the worst he is capable of? In Bush world the right to life begins at conception and ends at birth.

      If Bush got what he really wanted, single moms would be selected at random to be clubbed to death on prime time television for entertainment value. Bush is Michael Vick on (even more) steroids.

      And the establishment media would bleat on endlessly about how fine his character is.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    16. Re:Par for the course by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As to 'proportion to his fault', seems reasonable. Convicted of violating the distribution rights for 24 songs, a reasonable fine was applied for each individual conviction.

      Reasonable compared to what exactly?

      And moreover, when committing the same crime multiple times simultaneously, multiplying the fine by that amount is unusual and stupid except in particularly nasty cases. If you steal a pack of cigarettes vs stealing a carton are you punished 20x the amount for the carton?

      If there are 24 songs or 2400 songs its the same single crime, the punishment for the larger folder should perhaps be higher, but not 100x times higher.

      If I ever get charged by the RIAA for sharing X number songs that they identified I'm going to start by immediately announcing to the jury that I'm actually guilty of sharing 150,000 songs in my shared folder that I've shared for no personal gain because I did not and still do not beleive that my actions are or should be illegal. (Yes I have a 10,000 CD & LP collection, mostly out of print.) and then insist that if they convict me of copyright infringement that they must award reasonable damages of 9250 per track or around 1.4 billion dollars. Because that price has been established previously, and its both reasonable and fair, and proportional to the harm I've caused.

      Nevermind that its orders of magnitude more than the courts awarded vicitims of Agent Orange testing, or to victims of human trafficking, who were forced into prostitution, and raped. Clearly I have caused the greater harm, and should be charged proportionally more.

      In fact, what we should REALLY be doing is come forward as a group of 30,000,000 p2p users and admit guilt collectively through a single lawyer, and demand that we also be charged 9250 per track.

      Betcha that would make news, "p2p community self assesses its guilt at 27 trillion dollars and wants to know where to drop off cheque?"

      (based on an average of 100 songs per user X 30 million users X 9250 per track = 27 trillion dollars)

      Of course, shortly after that, rather than actually pay them, we'd just take the 27 trillion, buy controlling interest in the member companies of the RIAA, disband them, and put the music into the public domain. We'd have money left over to tackle the MPAA, buy out Microsoft, establish a moon base, field a larger better funded military than the USA, and buy Canada outright.

      Oh forget canada, we could just buy the united states outright, and get the military as part of the bundle. With enough left over to give everyone health care.

      Does that drive the point home about how unreasonable this sum of money is for this crime? Indeed, does that drive how absurd criminalizing this is? When the 'damages' that would arise out of convicting everyone who is engaged in it right now are worth some 40% of the total gross domestic product of the entire planet.

    17. Re:Par for the course by absoluteflatness · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The fact that the labels pursuing these suits currently offer "nice" settlements to people has no bearing on the fact that the underlying laws are unfair. The high damages for distribution seem to be designed for an pre-digital era where someone engaged in distribution would have to spend, and therefore have, a large amount of money.

      Now, anyone with a computer can be a large-scale distributor, but the same laws and damages apply.

  2. Liberty and justice by tsa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Liberty and justice for all corporations!

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Liberty and justice by rucs_hack · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If a law is deemed working properly when it can destroy someones life for the sake of a few MP3's, I would say that what we have here is fascism.

      Well, neoconservatism, which as far as I can tell is the same thing, only with better suits.

    2. Re:Liberty and justice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, neoconservatism, which as far as I can tell is the same thing, only with better suits.

      Fascism had waaaaay better uniforms and regalia.

    3. Re:Liberty and justice by h4rm0ny · · Score: 5, Insightful


      Here's a simple argument that her punishment was unjust - because it is being used as a stick to scare to the rest of society rather than an as an actual punishment, and is therefore out of proportion. How do we know that it is being used to scare society rather than as a fair punishment? Because millions of people do exactly the same as them and if everyone were prosecuted to such a degree, US civilisation would go bankrupt en masse. The penalty is inherently selective in targeting only example cases, because any consistent application of it would devastate the country. Punishments designed to scare people are not in proportion to the crime, because that is not their purpose. The interest is in creating the very greatest degree of punishment that is achievable.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    4. Re:Liberty and justice by marcello_dl · · Score: 4, Funny

      I completely agree. But I'd define this a mild "reign of terror".

      I am not liking it so I'm gonna fight it (as my ultimate rebellion is actually believing the propaganda called "democracy" and "justice" that some interest have fed us throughout the years).

      But how to fight? Shall I do exactly what they want us to avoid? Or avoid their products? Or avoid them but in the cases where they are extending copyright or patents on something they have no conceivable right on? (+70years, silly patents).

      On another perspective, NeoCons will have big explaining to do upstairs, if the God they're trying to justify themselves with is really there:

      - "You see, My Lord, I just wanted to..."
      - "Please, call me Allah."
      - "...Oopsie..."

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    5. Re:Liberty and justice by 15Bit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you have here is a fundamentally malfunctioning legal system. A punishment should fit the crime committed, not the collective crimes of everyone else who breaks the same law. Being punished to "serve as an example to others" is a concept which should have been left behind in the middle ages.

    6. Re:Liberty and justice by visualight · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's been more than 5 years since they got my money. No CD's, No DVD's, and I don't got to the movie theater anymore either. I almost caved for Spiderman3 but I didn't.

      I considered going in front of a movie theater with a sign but I figured if it was just me people would just think "look at that crazy guy..." as they were standing in line. If there's like 50 people it would be different.

      --
      Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
    7. Re:Liberty and justice by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Even those who think copyright law is paramount may have a sense of proportion. There's no reason to believe the woman acted with intent to harm, or achieved or attempted financial gain (beyond having posession of a lot of music she didn't pay for). She was fined far, far beyond any actual demonstrated damages.

      A just verdict would have been a fine of perhaps $2000, a requirement that all her internet activity be monitored for several years, and a warning that severe fines would be imposed upon discovery of similar misbehavior in the future. This is, after all, a first offense, and it was until this judgement a grey area in the law.

      The GPL analogy is not appropriate because GPL violations generally involve attempts at substancial financial gain for the violator.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    8. Re:Liberty and justice by CyberSnyder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is everything being prosecuted in civil trials rather than criminal court? Are they not breaking the law? Of course, the answer is easy. Burden of proof is much lower and corporations can keep top legal staff on their payroll where the average American cannot afford to hire a good lawyer or will be in the position of hiring a lawyer and winning in which case they lose $100k or more in legal fees. Or losing, paying $200k in damages *and* $100k in legal fees. The court system is just a tool that is stacked heavily in the favor of the corporations. "We the People" died sometime within the past generation or so. Fortunately, "We the People" can stop purchasing the CDs and MP3s and cut the corporations off at the knees. I think I'll stick with my current habit of purchasing used CDs and supporting local bands.

    9. Re:Liberty and justice by navyjeff · · Score: 2

      It's been more than 5 years since they got my money. No CD's, No DVD's, and I don't got to the movie theater anymore either. I almost caved for Spiderman3 but I didn't. You didn't miss anything. Spiderman 3 was rubbish, and I'm sorry I paid for me and my fiancee to see it.
  3. As the pendulum swings further... by speedfreak_5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...

    At this point, I kind of get a kick of seeing how the copyright system is thrown in favor of those who are responsible for most of the "content" (not worthy of the term "music" eh? :) that is put out there for your consumption. I can't wait for the pendulum to swing back hard. It's already showing some resistance (file sharing and what-not) to being in favor of one side heavily over the other with respect to the original idea of copyright. Some term extensions are fine with me. But the current system of life of the author + 70 years AND digital rights management is obscene and a kick to the crotch of the idea of copyright.

    --
    Why yes I am paranoid! Thanks for asking!
  4. Episode four by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Funny
    Emperor Bush: No pirate will dare oppose the RIAA now.

    Princess Hacka: The more you tighten your copyrights, the more songs will slip through the P2P nets.

    1. Re:Episode four by martin-boundary · · Score: 2, Funny

      Crap! I've been so traumatized by the recent episodes that the details of the original are already fuzzy!

  5. Please Give GWB A Blowjob So We Can Impeach! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I will be amazed if history does not label him the worst President we have ever had, along with the worst Presidential crew (cabinet and appointees) we have ever had.

    The guy and his friends, as a group, have been almost unbelievable. What is even worse, is that on the rebound, a lot of people might actually think that voting for Hillary is a good idea. (shudder)

    If you do not know who Ron Paul is, do yourself and others a favor and look him up. But if you really do not think honesty is important, go ahead and vote for any of the others.

    1. Re:Please Give GWB A Blowjob So We Can Impeach! by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's so great about Ron Paul? I mean unless you're a pro-lifer? One minute the guy tells us he things it's a state's right to allow or disallow abortion, and the next he says things like "In Congress, I have authored legislation that seeks to define life as beginning at conception, HR 1094." and "As an OB/GYN doctor, I've delivered over 4,000 babies. That experience has made me an unshakable foe of abortion." .. Which means it would be murder to perform abortion by his definition, and therefor outside of a state's right to regulate (they can only define the punishment for murder). And his stance does not seem to allow flexibility with regard to parents wishing to abort after tests for mental retardation, birth defects, etc. sorry, I really think it's a parents choice to bring a special needs child into this world, not a bureaucrat's choice (even if he was an OB/GYN).

      A vast majority of abortions are not done by loose women who get knocked up every few months, it's a choice that women choose carefully and rarely more than once. It's an extremely difficult decision that your average woman does not take lightly at all.

      Ron Paul is the best Republican on the field though, likely because he's not a sleezebag or neocon garbage. And I won't find myself voting for a Democrat until they have a massive change of heart and get back to their roots. (I never been registered as Democrat).

      If you do have interest in Ron Paul I urge you register as Republican so you may vote in the primaries. (you don't have much time left to re-register and switch from being independent, most of the primary elections are held January and February 2008, depending on state). I personally doubt Ron Paul will win the GOP primaries overall, but he might make a big impact in western states who lean far more towards Libertarianism.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    2. Re:Please Give GWB A Blowjob So We Can Impeach! by CristalShandaLear · · Score: 5, Funny

      The guy and his friends, as a group, have been almost unbelievable. What is even worse, is that on the rebound, a lot of people might actually think that voting for Hillary is a good idea. (shudder)

      My mother, unfortunately is one of those people. She simply cannot see how Hillary has changed from her days as first lady to the Cheney Lite drone she is today. There are many people who don't see this and it is indeed frightening.

      As for giving GWB a blowjob ....*sigh* I suppose I've given blowjobs for a lot less than the end of tyranny so I guess if you get him alone and hold him down, I'll take one for the geek world team, but damn, I expect a lifetime of free mp3's in return. I'd be an mp3 gazillionaire at MPAA rates.

    3. Re:Please Give GWB A Blowjob So We Can Impeach! by ErrorBase · · Score: 2, Funny

      As for giving GWB a blowjob ....*sigh* I suppose I've given blowjobs for a lot less than the end of tyranny so I guess if you get him alone and hold him down, I'll take one for the geek world team, but damn, I expect a lifetime of free mp3's in return. I'd be an mp3 gazillionaire at MPAA rates. Now there's a real patriot, put it on Youtube and I'll send you an URL. *ducks*
  6. the RIAA deserved to win, but, no surprise about W by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not surprised that she lost. She was uploading music, that she had downloaded. So, it started out not hers and then she gave it away. Copyright laws EXPLICITLY prevent that. OTH, had she bought the CD, or simply borrowed from friends, and the only offered it to friends, then I believe this would have been an interesting case.

    It will create more siphons, but hopefully, the press will point out that this case was NOT about downloading, but about uploading to strangers.

    As to the white house, I only hope that the more that laud this ruling, the more that it comes to haunt them.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  7. not the same by WindBourne · · Score: 2, Interesting
    when the radio played the song, it had payed for distributing them. That is the problem with you logic. The problem here, is that the girl did not pay to distribute them. Look, if I buy a CD and then share my music with a friend, and s?he rips it, then that is fair use. IOW, that person and myself have the RIGHT to do that. OTH, if I rip a CD and then offer it you, then I am selling something (for nothing, but still selling since I do not know you). I do not have that right. If I receive stolen property, and then offer it around, I am fencing. That is also illegal. That is what she was doing.

    Two things need to be attacked;
    1. The length of time of IP. That has become silly. In particular, America's pushing our version is the worst. Australia's was actually, pretty fair. Hopefully, more nations push back against US and push for something like Australia's was.
    2. DMCA WRT DVDs/Music. We bought the movie and/or music. It is our right to back it up and use it how we see fit. As long as we are not distributing it, then there should not be an issue.
    Though, Good luck. There is not much difference between a dem and pub, other than a pub runs monster deficits. They both love the current version of IP.
    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:not the same by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Look, if I buy a CD and then share my music with a friend, and she rips it, then that is fair use. IOW, that person and myself have the RIGHT to do that. No, that pretty clearly is not fair use. You are fine lending the CD to anyone you please, but their ripping it is not really defensible as fair use because it violates most of the tests for fair use set out in title 17.

      OTH, if I rip a CD and then offer it you, then I am selling something (for nothing, but still selling since I do not know you). Uh, no. That's not "selling" it is unauthorized distribution and whether or not you "know" the person you are distributing to has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    2. Re:not the same by Kjella · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Two things need to be attacked;
      The length of time of IP. That has become silly. In particular, America's pushing our version is the worst. Australia's was actually, pretty fair. Hopefully, more nations push back against US and push for something like Australia's was.
      DMCA WRT DVDs/Music. We bought the movie and/or music. It is our right to back it up and use it how we see fit. As long as we are not distributing it, then there should not be an issue.


      While I agree copyright is ocmpletely out of whack, do you think that'd restore balance to copyright? People today pirate the latest music, movies, tv and software. Yhat has extremely little to do with the length of copyright, do you think people would be happy if they could now watch the first season of Babylon 5, and in a few years could upgrade to Windows 95? That the 30 year olds can finally get the music they listened to in their early teens? That any of them would stop what they're doing and wait it out the next 14 years, even if we went all the way back to the copyright law of 1790? I think the general population would be as piss poor at keeping their end of a fair bargain as the RIAA/MPAA would be.

      The truth is that even though the DRM systems get broken quite often, they're effective against the "now now NOW!" generation. If a DRM system isn't broken for a few months, it's a boon to sales. Can't pirate Wii/xbox360/PS3 games (or requires some ugly hardware hack that might brick your system on the next update)? Of course that helps against piracy. The RIAA/MPAA so desperately want in on that, but only recently are they starting to see that it's just not possible. People want to take the music with them whereever and play on whatever devices they got, and the end-produce (i.e. the image and the sound) can always be captured, and everything else is gravy.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  8. They're absolutely correct. by jimicus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The purpose of copyright law is to grant a temporary monopoly on the rights to copy a piece of art - be it a painting, song, book or whatever. A bit like a patent provides a temporary monopoly on an invention.

    The fact that a lawsuit has been won by the copyright owner demonstrates that the law does exactly what it was intended to do - set out a series of punishments for those who would break the law and copy a piece of art which they have no right to do.

    I can see two bones of contention here, but they're more related to how the law is designed than whether or not it's working as intended:

    1. Is the law morally justifiable?
    2. Is the process of enforcing the law fair?

    Both are very reasonable questions. If they're something which is important to the general public, then they'll probably become issues at the next election. But right now, I'd imagine most politicians are more interested in the easy political points - things like crime, education, war in Iraq - than those which are generating a lot of noise on /.

    1. Re:They're absolutely correct. by pjt33 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      There's a third question:

      3. Does the law set proportionate punishment?

  9. Re:the RIAA deserved to win, but, no surprise abou by smallfries · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No it wasn't, and that is the problem a lot of people are having with this ruling. On this occasion I would recommend that you make an exception and RTFA. This case was not about uploading, the RIAA never proved that she uploading anything.

    Jury Instruction 15: The act of making available for download copyrighted material is in itself an act of copyright infringement with a fine of $750-$30000.

    Based on a screen-shot of kazaa showing some song names against her IP address they have fined her $220000. If you can't see why this is a travesty of justice then stop and think about it for a second. They have not shown that she violated copyright. Instead they have altered the law to say that "if it looks like you were going to violate copyright" then that is now a crime.

    Thank god I don't live in America, and the laws here are a little more sane.

    --
    Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  10. Teaching children by aeschenkarnos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just a question ... are Americans teaching their children that it is good to share, or that it is bad to share?

    1. Re:Teaching children by dwandy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      sharing is not consuming.
      sharing is communism.

      I think it's pretty clear what is being taught.

      --
      If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
  11. This is not about supporting the artist... by 3seas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...its about prolonging the inevitable death of the labels business.

    Remove the labels and replace them with a business model that understands the enormous cost savings of technology and the internet for production and distribution.

    It should be obvious, even from the court records.

    I very rarely buy music and when I do I try to buy directly from the artist, but this does not stop me from lisening to a great deal more music than I have purchased (not rented).

    I don't pirate but I have heard mixes others have done that remined me of plenty of songs and artists I liked years ago. But at about that time this RIAA crap started up and I figured I liked the artists and their works, not the contradictory business model of the labels as represented by the RIAA. So of course I dropped the idea of locating the music I heard on such mixes, that I might buy it.

    I mean since the Mix was illegal, I wasn't supposed to hear it and certainly in not hearing it I wouldn't be remined of ........ no sale.

    I don't Pirate nor do I support rabid dogs out to bite th hand that feeds them.

    The music industry labels has a history of questionable dealings such as Payola to get radio stations to play.... This sort of thing was determined to be illegal, unfair, etc... But the objective was that of getting coverage.

    Now that there is plenty of coverage.... they are complaining... Why? because they are not controlling it, its more open to public choice....

    Such controlling bias is not beneficial to but a few artists.

    So in the mean time I wake to music I don't pay for, drive to work and back with music I don't pay for and when I get an itch for irish music I tune into livelreland and I don't pay for that either.

    In fact I'd say on average over years, the music I listen to is better than 90% music I didn't pay for. And all without pirating. Most of which I wouldn't buy anyways, regardless of the fact that by the time the radio stations stop playing it, I'm sick and tired of it anyway and certainly won't have anything, and I certainly won't allow an illegal mix years later wrongly influence me to go out and buy....

    Why buy and why pirate when there is plenty free and legal.....

    If they shut down internet radio .. then I won't listen and won't know about artist I might just like enough to buy.

    Perhaps the Labels should just shut down all radio stations music playing..... That'll save them.

  12. The punishment does not fit the crime by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 5, Insightful

    RIAA wants to get $150,000 per infringement. If they nailed only 1/10th of the users on just the eMule network right now, each for a single infringement, they would net far more money than they normally make in a year. How can you seek damages so far removed from reality? RIAA wants us to believe that the $40 billion dollar music industry is the being victimized by eMule users to the tune of $600 billion worth of copyright infringement at any given moment.

    --
    +0 Meh
  13. He should check his kids pcs by musicmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This "copyright czar" Chris Israel should better check his kids' (if he has any) pcs and ipods. The majority of the families in the US are at risk for a similar verdict.

    But then of course his risk is quite diminished: the Bush administration has an effective system for preventing that their friends are prosecuted. The time that justice was blind is behind us.

    1. Re:He should check his kids pcs by Dunbal · · Score: 2, Funny

      the Bush administration has an effective system for preventing that their friends are prosecuted.

            Of course they do. The kids' iPod contents are a state secret.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  14. Re: Neocon God by cheros · · Score: 4, Interesting

    God, that was funny :-).

    Class.

    Now, if you really want to kick the industry in the chins it's very easy, but I don't have the time for it.

    (1) Register a site "BuynoCDsDay" and put SENSIBLE arguments on there why what the RIAA and the record industry in general is doing is wrong. Talk about the RIAA acting as a second police force, talk about the total absence of rational proof (i.e. lack of evidence) and talk also about alternatives (saying something is bad is easy, offering alternatives is evidence you've been thinking about it)

    (2) Plan a day somewhere around Xmas where normally their sales volume is quite high and ask people not to buy a single record that day. Nil, none whatsoever, and to tell their friends as well. Give good arguments (for instance, list the consequences of what happens when the RIAA is allowed to continue abusing the law) and maybe also identify that the RIAA is a primary reason of records being so expensive (here's a question for you - it costs millions to make a movie, yet I can buy a movie DVD for the same money as an album CD, why?). Try to go as wide as possible - get people to translate the site as well because the bigger you make this, the more it will hit.

    (3) Market the crap out of this site. Talk to The Register, Slashdot it (which means you'll need to keep to text and small image sizes), get it in Boing Boing, Ars Technica etc, the works. Make promos and stick them on YouTube. In other words, keep hitting it. Email the BBC about what you're doing. Get on the news, annoy your parents with it, come up with a good slogan and yell it everywhere - democracy is being able to say what you think (but without insulting people - ther'e such a thing as good manners).

    However, there is ONE thing you should not do. Do not promote illegal activity. Breaking copyright is wrong, whatever your reasons are you have no right to break the law. Just send a signal to the RIAA that the game is up - and this "win" of theirs (which will surely be challenged) will make all those others accused even fight harder (except the dead ones, of course).

    So there, instant revolution recipe. I'll go and take my tablets and lie down now :-)

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  15. Unconstitutional Fine. by Devir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok, this is years back in school. But I do believe there is an ammendment in our constitution stating that "Fines and penalties should be fair and affordable".

    Back then they saw the value of using a fine as a means of punishment. The thing is they also saw that you cant issue a fine of $220,000 against a person who makes $30,000 a year. It is unrealistic and unfair.

    Though for many politicians making these obscene laws, $220,000 fine to them is like $220 for us everyday people. Their problem is they cant see nor understand what life is like for the vast majority of people in this Earth.

    This country needs another Abe Lincoln. A poor man who worked his way up the political ladder. Too bad he'd be filtered out of the system before even starting.

    1. Re:Unconstitutional Fine. by enjo13 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You'd be looking for William Jefferson Clinton.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton

      Grew up quite modestly in Arkansas before breaking into higher education with earned scholarships.

      --
      Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
  16. Re:She should be pardoned by xelah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My country is no better , we also have draconian laws . May be someday , we all move to new planet , with our own happy laws :)


    They did that once. 'America', I think they called it.
  17. Re: Neocon God by muuh-gnu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > Breaking copyright is wrong,

    It isn't.

    > whatever your reasons are you have no right to break the law.

    If the law is unjust, it's not only wrong, but your obligation to break it. If the world worked by your logic, the civilisation would have never developed past the slavery, monarchies, colonialism, and so on, because every of those steps required breaking some kind of then effective, but unjust law. If you didnt ignore, fight and break unjust laws, you wouldnt even live in the US but would be a massively exploited british colony. If you happen to be black, you would still be prohibited from learning something and would have the lagal status of a "thing", could be sold, bought and auctioned, and if youre a woman, youd be prohibited from voting, studying, appearing on streets without a burqa and so on.

    FUCKING NOBODY who is not profiting from artificial, enforced scarcity, perceives either this judgement or the underlying copyright fascism as "just" or democratically approved, and without massive civil movements, there seems just to be no way to change the laws, because the persons in power simply "dont allow" the people to do it bacause they know that copyright, as we know it now, wouldnt survive a single night if people _really_ decided democratically about it.

  18. I haven't sucked on the RIAA or the MPAA's teats by crovira · · Score: 2, Informative

    for years.

    The suckage of the RIAA's client's 'product' is legendary and I see no need to support it in any way.

    Unfortunately, is still too expensive to make movies because there isn't an independent movie market place for the CREATION of movies, but its coming as production equipment, (like film cameras, lenses and editing software,) keep getting cheaper and better.

    It will become possible to finance the creation of movies, the distribution of movies over the internet through something like podcasting. You can pitch ideas on the 'net, see what sort of an audience would be interested (that gives you an upper limit on budget,) and go produce it.

    The same with movie houses trying to compete with 1080p and 41"+ screens.

    They are going to be in real trouble in a very few years.

    But back to the RIAA:

    There are lots of indie artists who's record companies get my money instead.

    The RIAA is one last gasp of any industry trying to hold back the tide.

    Like buggy whip makers, they are trying to force cars off of the roads. We all know where that led.

    I'm going to quite myself from next Monday's podcast, ("bad form" I know), but the RIAA only represents a very few clients:

    "* Arista
    * BMG
    * Capitol Records
    * Elektra
    * Fonovisa
    * Interscope
    * Lava
    * Loud
    * Maverick
    * MGM
    * Motown
    * Priority
    * Sony
    * UMG
    * Universal
    * Virgin
    * Warner)

    Personally, I think the RIAA's lawyers are tone-deaf, evil, profligate dwarves who have neither senses of shame or of proportion.

    I will never buy "any" of products from any firms they represent. (There are plenty of alternatives.)

    Kiss my ass, RIAA. Kiss my ass."

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  19. Re:RIAA and GNU have a lot in common by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The people who wrote the GPL were trying to simulate a world without copyrights by using copyrights in an unusual way. In a world without copyrights, there would be no need for such a simulation.

  20. Re: U.S. Justice by I_Voter · · Score: 3, Informative
    Justice and the U.S. Constitution.

    IMO: Few people that express political opinions about, justice, civil liberties, or even decisions by the U.S.Supreme Court, seem to be aware of our founding fathers original views. In simple terms the basic defense against government "tyranny" in our original constitutional concept was the jury.

    My Quick and Dirty Background

    In 1670, the traditional right of trial, by a jury of the defendant's peers, became much more powerful. The King's Chief Justice ruled that a jury could not be punished for bringing in a verdict that the Judge thought was unreasonable. This gave the jury the right to nullify the law in any specific trial! It's no accident that our U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights mention trial by jury six times. Our founding fathers understood the importance of the jury to protect the citizens from any state including a republic.

    Alexander Hamilton in Federalist Paper No. 83 -

    "The friends and adversaries of the plan of the [constitutional] convention, if they agree in nothing else, concur at least in the value they set upon the trial by jury; or if there is any difference between them it consists in this: the former regard it as a valuable safeguard to liberty; the latter represent it as the very palladium of free government."

    Thomas Jefferson's views were much stronger! -

    "I consider trial by jury the only anchor yet imagined by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of it's constitution." If you think that Jefferson overlooked the right to elect our representatives, you should consider a second quote of Jefferson, from a letter written in 1789, while serving. as ambassador to France: "Were I called upon to decide whether the people had best be omitted in the Legislative or Judiciary department, I would say that it is better to leave them out of the Legislative."

    One Historical Example: A Glorious Tradition of Free Speech

    In 1735, jury nullification decided the celebrated seditious libel trial of John Peter Zenger. His newspaper had openly criticized the royal governor of New York. The current law made it a crime to publish any statement (true or false) criticizing public officials, laws, or the government in general. The jury was only to decide if the material in question had been published; the judge was to decide if the material was in violation of the statute.

    Later "Judicial Refinements."

    A U.S. Supreme Court decision, (Sparf and Hansen v. U.S.) in 1895, declared (in legal principle) that jurors did not have the right of "jury nullification." It could be said that they were proclaiming the jurers in that seditious libel trial of John Peter Zenger to be criminals! The acceptance (in principle) of the immunity of a seated jury limited the full impact of the decision. However; in most states trial judges now tell jurors that their only job is to decide if the "facts" are sufficient to convict, and that if so, they "should" or "must" convict. Defense attorneys can face contempt of court charges if they urge jurors to acquit if they think the law is unconstitutional or unjust. However, in England "Rumpole of the Bailey" can use the following defense - "Yes my client did it! So what! Does any member of the jury really believe my client deserves to be punished?"

    This subject is explored more fully in the book, -

    JURY NULLIFICATION: The Evolution of a Doctrine , pub 1998, by Carolina Academic Press, Author: Clay S. Conrad.

    More recently - California has allowed judges to enter jury rooms, under certain special situations, to evaluate if the jury is reasoning properly! These actions have been examined (2001) by the California Supreme Court, and found acceptable based on the 1895 Supreme Court decision.

    The ability of the Judge to "judge" the reasoning processes of seated jurors, under admittedly rare situations, is only true in California.at the present tim

  21. Corporate VS Private copyright violation by crovira · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem is that she is a human being, who is probably going to pay for the rest of her life for the "copyright violation" of just making the stuff available, rather than a corporation, who could either afford it or just go out of business, while the corporate officers pocketed the money and go on to start up the next shady deal.

    I'm not recommending it, but it would illustrate her plight if she would commit "sepuku" in front of the RIAA offices for TV cameras, in exchange for her kid's safety, as this would illustrate the actual attitude of the RIAA (I like to think that the sight of a woman gutting her self like a fish all over their carpet might give some of them nightmares, but I don't really think it would.)

    Basically, she was a single individual going into a system designed for corporations to KILL each other.

    Now her life is ground meat. She'll spend her life paying for the mistakes on lost of peoples' parts.

    In old Imperial Japan, her head would have been separated from her body.

    Those ARE the stakes.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  22. Copyright czar? Really? by gumpish · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't suppose there's a Civil Liberties Czar by any chance...

    1. Re:Copyright czar? Really? by PixelScuba · · Score: 2, Interesting
  23. Re:RIAA and GNU have a lot in common by phantomlord · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In a world without copyright, free software has no protections. Evilcorp can take your code, extend it, release it closed source and give you the finger because you have no claim of ownership over it. If that's the world the FSF wants to live in, they can convert the license on all their stuff to the BSDL and enjoy it now.

    A world without copyright doesn't mean that everyone includes the source for their programs... It will also raise the cost of software dramatically. Autocad might cost $300k because a large architecture firms will buy one copy to install on all of their computers. Yeah, they could get it third party for free but then they wouldn't have any support to go with it. You can say the free software community will just develop a competitor, but again, that's going to rely on coders putting in a ton of effort to be feature comparable to Autocad and anyone can take that code, extend and close it because nothing protects it. Even with the protections of copyright, there still isn't a viable FOSS 3D CAD application which competes with Autocad that I'm aware of.

    --
    Don't leave your mind so open that your brain falls out. Don't close it so much that you cut off the blood.
  24. Let's start a fund to help this woman by ghostunit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In response to such outrageous abuses many propose "no-buying-cds" days and other utterly useless measures.

    But what would really hurt their pride and lessen their damage would be for the community to set a fund and help this person with her legal fees.

    This would really show that the people won't tolerate someone's life being ruined to set an "example" and instill fear in everyone else.

    (note: I'm not an American citizen, somebody please set it up instead)

  25. This is so wrong by sonam · · Score: 2

    This is wrong on so many levels. The RIAA once again shows they are not a reasonable or honorable organization. The only redeeming thing they could do is let her pay a much smaller penalty of say, $5k, and call it a day. Punishing a person with such a harsh penalty for such an insignificant crime is an abuse of our legal system.

    --
    Sonam Genphel
  26. Yeah... by Xenographic · · Score: 4, Informative

    As far as I can tell, they think it's working if you can win big money in the lawsuit lottery.

    As for me, I think I'll follow NYCL's advice from the previous story and send a little something to help her appeal this. NYCL said to make out checks to Chestnut & Cambronne PA, Esqs. with a note that they're for Jammie Thomas's case and to mail them to:

    Brian N. Toder, Esq.
    Chestnut & Cambronne, P.A.
    204 North Star Bank
    4661 Highway 61
    White Bear Lake, MN 55110

    And that their phone number is (651) 653-0990 if you need it for FedEx.

    1. Re:Yeah... by Merk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Assuming these are her lawyers, I wouldn't do this. Her lawyers were awful from what I saw. Rather than give them more money, I'd give her money to find some good ones.

  27. Scary by Urkki · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The $ amount is scary, but what is even more scary is the White House praising that a woman's life was destroyed, saying that this is how it was supposed to work, too. Mindboggling. Good thing I don't live there...

    Now, excuse me while I go and see what I can do to support local "EFF" organization, so that kind of crap won't ever go through here.

  28. Re:I haven't sucked on the RIAA or the MPAA's teat by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Give it a few years and movies are where songs are today.

    About 20 years ago, making and recording a song was expensive. You needed some studio, good (==expensive) equipment, some way to market and distribute it, in short, you needed the aid of a studio. Today, this all vanished. You can create great music "at home", with rather low cost, your average monthly income will buy you whatever you need.

    Let technology grow a little and we got the same with movies. We are already today at the point where great FX are no longer a matter of multi million dollar hardware but rather one of skill and a decent but affordable FX program. Video cams getting better and cheaper every month. Professional editing software also dropped from many thousands to a few hundred bucks. In no more than 10 years, the movie studios will face the same problem the music studios have today: They become obsolete for the ambitioned creator.

    They don't "feel" the pressure yet from both sides, only from the customer side where movies are now being shared like songs have been for over 10 years now. Only recently (i.e. about 5 years now) bandwidth has been large enough that it becomes an issue. Now they react. Now it's too late.

    We'll see more laws about this. In 100 years, we'll look at those laws with the same chuckle we now feel when we see laws for the protection of horse drawn cabs, about a man waving a red flag in front of a car or similar crap, lobbied in by a dying business.

    Unlike them, the **AAs have a choice, though. They can turn from the middleman that tries to hold artists and customers in a stranglehold to a valuable marketing and PR tool for the former. They have all the necessary tools, knowledge and people to push your songs into the charts and make it a seller. They are, if anything, great at creating a hype. If they can change to this model and become an "advertising agency", they can survive.

    If they instead try to cling to a dead business model, they will perish.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  29. Ignoring the large-scale "pirates" by Teancum · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of the problems that the current RIAA approach is that they are ignoring the large scale publishers by going after these petty criminals. And this Minnesota woman mentioned in the articles is just that. She is accused of opening up to some friends a couple of CDs worth of MP3s.

    I have seen some very large scale operations of blatant copyright violation in the past, including network sharing of copyrighted material. For crying out loud, I've had co-workers hand me nearly their entire CD collection compressed as MP3s on a couple of CDs.

    This is also completely missing the Chinese CD copy pirates that even have complete CD pressing facilities, print up scanned jacket inserts, and sell the CDs as the real thing when in fact that isn't the case at all. And don't tell me these CDs don't end up in the USA, as I know for a fact that they do. This kind of activity is blatant copyright violations and involves criminal activities where not only is the "criminal" making money off of the duplication of the content, but it also does real damage that can be measured in a genuine sense where some individuals are buying this content thinking it is the real thing, completely unaware that it was made through an illegal process and the artist gets absolutely nothing in return.

    I've also see websites... and they still do exists... that have hundreds or even thousands of CDs worth of data, and even hundreds of complete DVD movies available for download in blatant disregard for copyright laws. I know some of them have been shut down, but that just means they are avoiding to advertise on Google and other search engines, and you have to "go underground" to find these websites. If you search hard enough, you can still find them.

    What this woman did was the equivalent of a shoplifter taking some candy or other low-value merchandise from a store. Certainly it is illegal and perhaps needs to be prosecuted. But it doesn't need to become a national news story, nor draw the attention of multi-national corporations to fly their lawyers across the country in order to prosecute individuals who are for the most part clueless to begin with. Certainly the $300,000 fine+ court costs is way over the top.

    I would also like to ask this rather tough question to the RIAA: If any of this money is collected, will even a single penny of that money go into the hands of the artist you were representing?

    This is tragedy compounding the situation, as copyright law is really there to protect the content creator. These organizations like the RIAA do very little to help the plight of the ordinary musician, nor does a prosecution like this ultimately help out a journeyman musician. I'm not talking the grand masters that are at the peak of popular culture and earn their deservedly millions of dollars. They can usually negotiate reasonable recording contracts and keep most of their money. I'm talking the more ordinary folks who are getting screwed over by the RIAA, where a prosecution like this will result in that same Minnesota woman simply declaring bankruptcy to get out of the debt, and the RIAA will then claim what little was paid toward the fine as legal costs. The only people who "won" in this case was the RIAA lawyers themselves, and not their "clients" for whom they were supposedly representing.

    1. Re:Ignoring the large-scale "pirates" by wizkid · · Score: 2


      You hit the nail on the head with this comment. I was downloading an occasional tune to check out new music, and stopped. I found pandora and some other online streaming sites to help me discover new music. Now when I find someone I like, I can go find a used cd, or if they're an indy artist, I'll gladly buy there album outright. I won't support the RIAA companies though. They screw the artists, and then turn around and screw the customers. And to make sure they stay in power, they're doing everything they can to shut down the outlets they don't control, including sueing their customers for hundereds of thousands of bucks. The only way to shut them down is for us to no longer support them. I don't, but I still buy the music I want through used outlets, and by finding and listening to indy artists.

      --
      I take no responsibility for what I say. Even though I'm never wrong :)
  30. A law needs support to be executable by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's what it boils down to, and that's also what made the communist countries fall. The people did not support the system that held them down. You cannot, at least in a democracy (or something resembling it) create laws that the majority of people either don't care about or oppose.

    Imagine you know a murderer. Would you go to the police and tell on him? Most likely. Even if he's your friend. He killed a person! Most people would certainly support a law against murder. NOt because they're directly affected, but because murder simply is something that does not appeal to us. Maybe it's part of our culture, maybe even religion, maybe just the fear that you could be next, but generally you'll at the very least consider turning him in.

    Now imagine you know a filesharer. Would you even ponder going to the police? Most likely not, because at the very least you don't care about copyright laws, and if you do, you'll more likely support your friend against those laws.

    Most people either don't understand copyright laws, don't understand their purpose or simply don't know something like this even exists. "Virtual property" is a quite artificial concept and hard to grasp. It's not one of the things that make sense immediately, and even when you grasp the idea intellectually, it still doesn't "feel" wrong to copy content. You didn't really "steal" anything, it's still there. That someone didn't get money who should've gotten money, or whatever reason is usually given, is something that doesn't immediately affect us.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  31. Neoconservatism? by paranode · · Score: 2, Informative

    So you are seriously claiming that none of these laws existed before Bush's administration? I just think it's so funny when people get a hot-button issue and use it as a scapegoat for everything even when it has nothing to do with it. Many liberals have been in office and they have not changed copyright laws in your favor. Neocons are not the root cause of this issue.

  32. Re: Neocon God by quanticle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just imagine what would happen if everybody unsatisfied with the current laws started their own "revolution", bringing your country into chaos.

    I'd imagine that there'd be a lot fewer laws, as only the ones that everyone could agree to would be on the books. I'd also imagine that, eventually people would get sick of all the rebellion and would form a government that'd be agreeable to all.

    I'm from Hungary (sorry for my English), and here some far-right groups tried to make a "revolution" and a "real political transformation" last year - of course they failed pathetically.

    That's because they didn't have any popular support. Without that kind of support any protest (for right or wrong) will fail. The monks protesting in Burma were crushed too. Does that make their protest wrong?

    Nevertheless, it would be terrible if everybody broke the laws they found unjust.

    So the mass campaigns of civil disobedience that led to independence for India, civil rights for African Americans in the US, and the end of apartheid in South Africa were terrible?

    --
    We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
  33. Re:Copyright holders? by db32 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Hence the suite was "Capitol vs" not "RIAA vs". What is scaring the people is getting slapped with $220,000 fines. This complaint is like saying Unions can't represent workers because the Union doesn't have the individual workers rights assigned to them. And uhm...the musicians are nothing more than cattle producing milk for the farmer, they have no rights and need no representation. They signed over their rights to the recording studio, and the studios got together and formed the RIAA to collectively defend their "rights". You wanna fix the problem, don't go after the RIAA, don't go after the labels, don't even go tell people to stop buying. Tell the greed driven artists to quit signing away their rights to these scumbag organizations.

    This help the artist crap that keeps coming up blows my mind. They armed the studios, the studios attacked the people, and now the people want to defend the artists that armed the organization that is attacking them? Fuck the artists, if they want support they need to walk away.

    --
    The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  34. Corroboration by Xenographic · · Score: 2, Informative

    I don't remember where NYCL's comment was in the prior story, but here's some corroboration from his website, and here is the comment on his own blog where he points people to that information.

    I don't blame you for wanting proof; I think it's smart to double-check things like that.

  35. big money in the lawsuit lottery. by dpilot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Depends on who is winning the big money. Don't forget, this administration is really big on tort reform, limitations of damages, etc.

    The fundamental idea is that some defective product can kill you or disable you for life, and you'll get less than the record company will if you pirate a few of their songs.

    The administration has come out in favor of the "ownership society," remember. (By the by, "creators" are not necessarily "owners," either.)

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  36. unfair by blackraven14250 · · Score: 2

    Does the white house realize that a multibillion-dollar organization just won a $200k victory against a single person? Doesn't this seem straight up unfair at the core?