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A Google Blunder- the Sad Story of Urchin
Anenome writes "Google has a track record of buying startups and integrating them into its portfolio. But sometimes those acquisitions go terribly wrong, as Ars Technica argues has been the case with Google's 2005 purchase of web-analytics firm Urchin Software Corp. 'In the wake of Google's purchase of the company, inquiring customers (including Ars Technica) were told that support and updates would continue. Companies that had purchased support contracts were expecting version 6 any day, including Ars. What really happened is this: Google focused its attention on Google Analytics, put all updates to Urchin's other products on the back burner, and rolled out a skeleton support team. Everyone who forked over for upgrades via a support contract never got them, even though things weren't supposed to have changed. The support experience has been awful. Since the acquisition, we have had two major issues with Urchin, and neither issue was solved by Google's support team. In fact, with one issue, we were helped up until the point it got difficult, and then the help vanished. The support team literally just stopped responding.'"
So a company made promises regarding a product right before they sold. Are the people who made those promises to you still in charge of the product? Did they cash out and move on to another venture? I'm sorry for your loss, but you should put some effort into learning what really happened. You have posted exactly what I am posted, which is opinion. I don't feel this is news worthy.
It is googles' own greed. They purchased this company in competition with M$ but it is Googles fuck up not M$. So by your Bad Analogy if Mandravia goes under it is some how M$ fault? Not that fact that Mandrake got bought out and the parent company fucked up? I think you need to pull your head out of the sand (or your ass) and realize that not everything is Microsofts fault.
I smoked pot once. But I DID NOT inhale. Will you hire me?
... and in the meantime I can really recommend Sawmill which I finde quite loveable as a log processor.
Isn't this just what happens about 50% of the time with company buyouts in tech? It seems like either you're buying them because you want their technology for yourself, or you're trying to eliminate a competitor. (Very rarely some holding company may actually just want to own a piece of the action and make a profit from your hard work). In either case though, the purchasing company doesn't give a crap about the viability of the company they're buying. I wouldn't say this is just google, I'd say this is the way most tech companies with money to spend handle buyouts.
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
It looked to me that they signed a contract. Therefore, wouldn't it be breach of contract and be actionable in court?
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
What companies like Google don't realize is that it's the uncertainty that kills customers. Most of us won't really care if you're going to buy Urchin, move all the best pieces to Google Analytics, and then kill it off - just tell us what the fuck you are doing so we can plan accordingly. Dicking people around by pretending to support what you know will be a dead product is a good way to get people to hold grudges against you.
It makes one wonder how many of these companies eschewed open-source solutions, in favor of expensive "supported" software.
Hopefully enough of these examples will eventually reach the tipping point where PHBs will finally begin to wonder what exactly they're getting for their money.
{ - Generic Guy - }
Google purchased Urchin outright.
.tpl (report templates) look or present information? Good luck, there is exactly zero documentation about it. Hell, the "support" personel I worked with didn't even know those files existed, or what they did.
Google/Urchin provided support for a short while, and all was good. Then, Google/Urchin decided to outsource ALL support requests except major bugs. They "trained" authorized support personel from various companies, which are now listed under their resellers page. But, a good percentage of those people know jack about the inner working of Urchin. I feel sorry for them, honestly, because I doubt they were trained properly and there's very little solid documentation.
Urchin is EXTREMELY poorly documented. Want to know how to create your own report inside a profile? It's easy! Now, do you want to analyze some metric in a different way than Urchin does by default? Wow. Good luck. datamap.dm, I hardly knew thee. I still don't know it well, because there's very little documentation and zilch for examples about how the integral parts of the program work. Want to change how some
So yeah, Google is certainly at fault somewhat, but a lot of the issues people have could have been resolved even prior to the acquirement of Urchin! Documentation will save us, or in it's absence damn us.
Another topic is that Urchin currently has two outstanding LARGE vulnerabilities, as published by US CERT. Google/Urchin was notified back in June or July about these security holes. They claimed a fix was in the works. It's now OCTOBER and they're totally silent on the issue. My support requests (directed directly at google, not at one of their support contractors) go unanswered. There hasn't been an update to the program in years. Google/Urchin is COMPLETELY silent about the Urchin standalone product.
I'm extremely happy that this is getting some public attention, because it bugs the bejeezus out of serious Urchin users.
>> It would be an Anenome (sic) ...
A sea urchin is an Echinoderm, like starfish and sea cucumbers.
An anemone is a Cnidaria, like coral and jelly fish.
Imagine obligatory wiki links here.
jfs
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
Ok, I'll bite...
Price doesn't have to be the only basis for competition. You can compete on service, and quality of product as well. To make an analogy, look at the retail market. Walmart competes on price, and its pretty successful. Target, knowing that it can't beat Walmart on price, competes by having brighter stores, and higher quality goods. Recently, Target has had a higher growth rate than Walmart, indicating that atmosphere and quality are criteria used by consumers to evaluate stores.
Similarly, you don't have to compete on price with Microsoft, and if you do, you'll probably lose. The trick is to go for quality and service - something that Google has been going for, except in this case. That's why the continued disregard of existing Urchin customers was a blunder - it put a black mark against Google's reputation for good customer service.
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
Errr, the version of Urchin he's referring to postprocesses Apache/IIS/Websphere/etc log files. You don't have to use cookies to track users (though it helps). ... so, disregarding cookies, why is Urchin evil?
I thought an Urchin was the old name for a Hedgehog, and that Sea Urchins are so named because they have lots of things sticking out of them, looking somewhat similar, if you sort of squint sideways with your head cocked to one side.
threadeds blog
I say go after the deep pockets of Google, demand a jury trial, profit! When they bought the company they also have to take on their customer support. I suspect that a jury would agree.
Come on, if Microsoft did this we'd be yelling loudly how bad they were.
Using openSUSE instead of Windows since 9th of October, 2007 and liking it.
This has been the MOU for Microsoft for years buy a company, speak the 'we support our users' talk, take the staff and code, drop the non-MS users and then tout how they are innovating and are the best thing there is.
Any of these ring a bell:
- Fox Software
- Bungie
- SubLogic
All of which made great programs that supported users of multiple platforms, MS bought them, said they were dedicated to enhacing the product across all platforms, made a half assed release or two and then dropped all other platforms due to 'lack of interest' (they claim it was customer lack of interest when it was more like Microsoft's). It's amazing MS Office for Mac has lasted as long as it has...
I am curious on what similarity, does Google limit the user by switching to Analytics- or what is missed by Analytics that isn't by Urchin?
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
So, in other words, I should clam up about what I don't fathom?
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
Is that choosing commercial or proprietary software based on the notion you get better support is a myth. I can't even tell you how many PHB's I know that are scared to do anything without a support contract. The moral of the story: Your people should be able to solve 99.9% of all software problems on their own and rely on support as little as possible. Most support contracts I've dealt with have been mostly useless and we've generally had to solve all the hard problems in house. I've pretty much lost faith in support contracts meaning anything other than "a company to sue when things go wrong". But suing a company doesn't bring back lost customers and it doesn't bring back a company that doesn't exist anymore. Blaming others is a great cop out, but I'd never base a business around the blame game.
If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
It makes one wonder how many of these companies eschewed open-source solutions, in favor of expensive "supported" software. Hopefully enough of these examples will eventually reach the tipping point where PHBs will finally begin to wonder what exactly they're getting for their money.
You don't understand why companies prefer commercial solutions.
If I buy services from a company and they fail to deliver, I have choices. Like suing them (example: breach of contract) and recovering damages. I can't do that if I install open-source software, unless I hire a firm to take care of the implementation, and *they* fuck up on what they promised they'd deliver.
Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't mean it's broken.
Please help metamoderate.
I think a lot of it has to do with going public. Instead of worrying about making a good product and turning a profit, they have to worry about INCREASING profit. It can never be good enough. They have to constantly make more and more money to keep the stockholders happy. Eventually, they have to screw the customer for the sake of the stockholder.
-aggles
$ echo "127.0.0.1 googleanalytics.com" >> /etc/hosts
/etc/hosts
.....
$ echo "127.0.0.1 www.googleanalytics.com" >>
Does the trick every time
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Anyone remember Dodgeball.com? Google bought 'em when they were hot, everyone expected great things, check out their founder's resignation letter.
Google is competitive, outside and inside. If a product doesn't have a strong voice, strong support, it'll get starved. There are lots of examples of this, where Google (or Yahoo or any other company) buys a smaller company and it's products just kinda evaporate.
Sometimes it is truly a mismatch in cultures. Other times the folks coming in get sucked into 'more interesting' projects and their original ones languish. Once in a while the goal of buying the company was to shut it down, or at least to deny it's benefits to a competitor.
Whatever the case whenever a buyout happens smart folks immediately put together transition plans, if only contingency ones.
In my career I've had CA buy and rape/pillage/burn (not always in that order!) any number of products we've depended upon. Yahoo! also has a record of ingesting, partially digesting, then eventually burping up a barely recognizable (and rarely for the better) version of the original service. Same for Amazon - anyone else recall Firefly, PlanetAll, A9 with street-views, etc.?
Urchin is just one more example of why committing to a product or service that isn't it's owner's primary interest is a risky gamble. Never assume the status quo; companies & priorities change and that's how inattentive customers get caught out.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Just don't try to mussel into the joke just for the halibut, fishing for +1 Funny, or you'll end up get "dock"ed karma.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
Additionally, if the software is popular and the original vendor provides poor support, someone else will step in with a better offer. A market economy is always better for the customer than a state granted monopoly.
[ BTW: I guess most people "make money" on free software not by support or sponsorship, by being paid in advance by the customer for the development. I know I do. ]
Walmart competes on price, and its pretty successful. Target, knowing that it can't beat Walmart on price, competes by having brighter stores, and higher quality goods
Yeah, I have heard that those rocks that Target sells are quite HiFi. However, I am not sure how "portable" they might be...
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
For those companies that use Urchin, note that there is a potential security vulnerability that I came across on a copmany's ordering page just a few days ago. The company, who shall remain nameless, has since taken my suggestion and closed the security hole, but I don't know how many more ordering screens use Urchin in the same way.
The problem is thus:
1. The ordering screen where you enter your VISA card number is loaded over https
2. The ordering screen includes the urchin.js script file, but this file is loaded over unsecured http
3. This means that urchin.js could be replaced in transit with another script which could steal your personal info by, for instance, changing the form you are submitting to point to another server.
In this case, the Firefox "lock" icon displays an error: "Warning: Contains unauthenticated content". Unfortunately, this is very easy to miss. I only spotted it because I use the Petname Toolbar, which prevents phishing and spoofing. The toolbar would not let me set a petname for this site, because the unsecured content could literally change anything on the page, so it wasn't safe. If you don't already have the Petname Toolbar installed, I highly recommend that you install it.
Urchin could close this hole if they allowed urchin.js to be loaded over https, but the file isn't available over a secured link. To anyone using urchin.js, make sure you don't include that file on your secured pages.
What's even more disheartening, is that this site was verified as "hacker safe" by ScanAlert; missing such an obvious hole really decreases my confidence in their testing methods.
Higher Logics: where programming meets science.
The same thing happened to dodgeball when they were bought. Google buys companies for the people, not the product.
Look, if you're gonna make fish puns, just quote the whole song and be done with it.
It was April the 41st, being a quadruple leap year
I was driving in downtown Atlantis
My Barracuda was in the shop, so I was in a rented Stingray, and it was overheating
So I pulled into a Shell station They said I'd blown a seal
I said, "Fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of it, okay pal?"
While they were doing that I walked over to a place called the oyster bar -- a real dive
But I knew the owner, he used to play for the Dolphins
I said, "Hi, Gil!!!"
You hafta yell, he's hard of herring
CHORUS:
Think I had a wet dream Cruisin' through the Gulf Stream Oooh-ooh-ooh-ooh Wet dream...
Gil was also down on his luck
Fact is, he was barely keeping his head below water
I gullied up to the sandbar He poured the usual
Rusty snail, hold the grunion, shaken, not stirred
With a peanut butter and jellyfish sandwich on the side -- heavy on the mako
I slipped him a fin -- on porpoise I was feeling good
I even dropped a sand dollar in the box for Jerry's Squids -- for the halibut
Well, the place was crowded We were packed in like sardines
They were all there to listen to the big band sounds of Tommy Dorsal -- what sole
Tommy was rockin' the place with a very popular tuna -- "Salmon Chanted Evening"
And the stage was surrounded by screaming groupers
Probably there to see the bass player
One of them was this cute little yellowtail
And she's giving ME the eye
So I figure, this is my chance for a little fun
You know -- a piece of Pisces
But she said things I just couldn't fathom
She was too deep, and seemed to be under a lot of pressure
Boy, could she drink
She drank like a... she drank A LOT...
I said, "What's your sign?" She said, "Aquarium" I said, "GREAT!!! Let's get tanked!"
I invited her up to my place for a little midnight bait
I said, "C'mon baby, it'll only take a few minnows"
She threw me that same old line
"Not tonight -- I got a haddock"
And she wasn't kiddin' either, 'cuz in came the biggest, meanest looking haddock I'd ever seen come down the pike
He was covered with mussels
He came over to me, he said, "Listen shrimp -- don't you come trolling around here"
What a crab This guy was steamed -- I could see the anchor in his eyes
I turned to him, I said, "Abalone -- You're just being shellfish"
Well, I knew it was going to be trouble, and so did Gil, 'cuz he was already on the phone to the cods
The haddock hits me with a sucker punch
I catch him with a left hook He eels over
It was a fluke, but there he was, lying on the deck, flat as a mackerel
Kelpless
I said, "Forget the cods, Gil, this guy's gonna need a sturgeon"
Well, the yellowtail was impressed with the way I landed her boyfriend
She came over to me, she said, "Hey big boy, you're really a game fish"
"What's your name?"
I said, "Marlin"
Well from then on, we had a whale of a time
I took her to dinner
I took her to dance
I bought her a bouquet of flounders
And then I went home with her
And what did I get for my trouble?
A case of the clams
Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 29.1).Your comment has too few characters per line (currently 30.1)
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Urchin.com had at one time extensive online docs, including a very good searchable knowledge base. IIRC most of these docs vanished shortly after the acquisition.
I too am happy this is getting some attention, as management needs to be reminded from time to time that no company is infallible. Even Google.
Ah, yes. The first rule of Slashdot: if that I happen to like is critized, move focus to MS.
You don't know what you don't know.
Whale my parent's concern for GP is nice, eel probably be fin.
Many webmasters host urchin.js locally to speed up page load times. Google does not recommend this practice, but they also do not forbid it. I don't particularly feel like trawling through urchin.js, but a quick skim doesn't seem to have that file submitting to google-analytics.com. It seems to go, instead, to analytics.corp.google.com.
At any rate, I think that you'll find that the google analytics hostname is www.google-analytics.com (with a hyphen). I also think that the NoScript firefox plugin will protect you well against googal-analytics as well as a host of other tracking mechanisms.
Cheers!
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
air /strip/, man, not air /ship/. You know, like lapdance at 30,000ft, not Hindinberg.