YouTube For High-School Jocks

theodp writes "Used to be college scouts had to put in lots of miles to find a hick from French Lick. But thanks to the Internet, athletic recruiters no longer have to traipse out to actual games to find talent. The players are coming to them via links to video streamed from sports-info websites like Student-Athlete Showcase, iPlayers, and GetMyNameOut. The home-video-meets-NFL-Films highlight reels — which parents commission for a fee ranging from $300 to $5,000 — have become a standard component of college applications for jocks (as well as for aspiring actors, dancers, and musicians). One sales pitch: 'Are you willing to risk your child's potential scholarship with a homemade videotape? Remember, first impressions last forever!'"

Comments

Jock?

[Lurks]

I wonder if someone could clear it up for someone who isn't an American, what's a 'jock'?

Re:Jock?

[Anonymous Coward]

A jock is a subclass of high school athletes who generally bully nerds and geeks and tend to act fairly arrogant.

The characterization of athletes in this article shows the high school nerd mentality that everyone who is athletic must fall into the class of people who bully nerds. Most people outgrow this attitude as they get older and don't make such bigoted characterizations. Sadly, as this article shows, not everyone does.

Re:Jock?

[morari]

That's because jocks usually outgrow their status and evolve into gas station attendants, thus no becoming a problem no longer.

I think ones dislike for publicly sponsored athletics goes farther than wimps being bullied however. Schools waste a LOT of time and money on sports, diverting attention away from what little actual education they do (or could) offer. Furthermore, a lot of morons manage to make it through classes simply because they can run fast and will thus bring in the big bucks. School athletics show a dire sense of tax money and one of its ass backwards uses by the so-called education system.

Re:Jock?

[MrCrassic]

OR they evolve into multi-million dollar sports superstars who committ some of the dumbest and most irrational events, such as (publicly) releasing dog-fighting information, or badly covered-up rape scenarios, or (with the help of their coach) getting a cruise ship full of whores and prostitutes and having everyone know about it (Vikings)...

Of course, there are sports for the more intellectually inclined, like cycling, running, etc. Then again, being successful in those sports requires a good working knowledge of physics, sports medicine, etc. instead of "throw the ball into strike zone..." (even though that uses pretty high-level concepts).

Re:Jock?

[reddburn]

Right. It takes a "good working knowledge of physics" to pedal a bike up a hill. Almost as much as it does to run in circles. Just because "nerds" are involved in these events doesn't mean that they require a lot of thought - in fact, many of the nerds I know who do participate in them do so for an escape, for a chance to be alone with other thoughts.

Re:Jock?

[Jarik_Tentsu]

At my school 'jock' has always been the term given to guys who are obsessed with sports - live and die by them, with little much else in their lives. I don't think 'bullying nerds' was part of the criteria...o.O

Though, maybe my school is just weird...

~Jarik

Re:Jock?

[peterpi]

Maybe not their teacher, but certainly their boss. And it happens more than people here might like to admit. It's not unusual at all to get a superstar coder, but they're an unacceptable business liability because nobody can actually interact with them.

Re:Jock?

[_anomaly_]

Saying that the "sports for the more intellectually inclined, like cycling, running, etc." take more thought than team sports, including the major 3 (in the US, football, basketball, and baseball), just shows your ignorance on the subject.

Now, I never considered myself a jock, and even had some of the experiences with "jocks" that some here have noted that are considered stereotypical of that of a "nerd's" experience in high school. But I did play high school soccer (and grew up playing basketball and baseball as well). I've also participated in individual sports. I graduated salutatorian. I can't speak to the intellectual requirements of American football, but the team sports I've participated in require as much, if not more, thought than individual sports. You no longer have a strategy that's dependent upon what you do, but what 10 (as in soccer) others do. Anticipation, cooperation, and communication are requirements for success in team sports, all of which take a fairly high degree of thought during play. Teamwork was a very important thing that I had to learn to do well in order to succeed, and it has paid off later in life.

It's the ignorance, due to a lack of experience, that the stereotypes, among slashdotters and nerds alike, of the major team sports perpetuating the myth that these sports can be played just as well with a team of monkeys (no offense to monkeys).

That's short for "jockstrap"

[MichaelCrawford]

... an undergarment worn to keep one's testicles out of harm's way during sports play.

A jock is an athlete, and therefore the bane of every Slashdotter.

A jock is not an athlete

[HateBreeder]

A jock is not an athlete, see here for clarification.

Re:A jock is not an athlete

[phulegart]

Actually, by your link to the Urban Dictionary, a Jock is indeed an Athlete. However, it is just not a "Real Athlete" according to at least one of the definitions submitted by those who chose to put their two cents in. I find it strange that by submitting this link as proof of "A jock is not an athlete" you appear to believe that being physically involved with sports activities does not constitute athletic status. The Majority of the definitions I read at Urban Dictionary confirm that Jocks are indeed athletes, only athletes that are also bullies, bigots, or have anger management issues.

It is interesting to note that the majority of definitions there also appear to be written by people who would never consider themselves to be a "Jock". Now, I know that some of these would be the "Real Athletes" mentioned in that one definition, however I would not hesitate to guess that most of these people would be those people who grew up hating "Jocks" during their school years, for a number of reasons.

Re:A jock is not an athlete

[bigdavex]

A jock is not an athlete, see here for clarification.

I think that's pretty stupid.

There's a natural slide of words into meaning just good and bad. It's not very useful, because we already have those words.

Re:A jock is not an athlete

[broggyr]

I think it's safe to say that an Athlete is not always a jock.

Re:A jock is not an athlete

[WedgeTalon]

Well then maybe you should use a REAL dictionary:

Jock:
2. [n] a person trained to compete in sports

Athlete:
[n] a person trained to compete in sports

Re:A jock is not an athlete

[bigdavex]

Yeah, I'm OK with that. Jock is a subset of athletes.

Re:A jock is not an athlete

[loganrapp]

Jock:Athlete

Nerd:Slashdotter

good business models are few and far between

[root-a-begger]

Its good to see some original business models coming out. I have grown tired of so much reliance on ad models. Perhaps this Internet thing is here to stay.

nice idea

[rucs_hack]

I can see that this would be extremely handy in the US, given the sheer size of the country. Parents should take advantage of any method to get their kid noticed. I do wonder however whether some ripoff sites will start charging nieve parents large fees for poorly made or badly placed video's.

Re:nice idea

[advocate_one]

I do wonder however whether some ripoff sites will start charging nieve parents large fees for poorly made or badly placed video's.

you mean like the portfolio scammers who prey on young girls who want to be models?

Re:nice idea

[vertinox]

Parents should take advantage of any method to get their kid noticed.

I find this rather dubious with using videos solely rather than watching on site performance because as everyone knows, you can pretty much doctor even the worst performance and make it look good with the right sound bites and clips. Then those athletes who may even be better at the sport and who can't afford to make a good production video won't get as much attention.

Of course, one would suspect something if a set of parents spent $50 grand on hiring Pixar to make their son's youtube video.

Re:nice idea

[ben0207]

"Of course, one would suspect something if a set of parents spent $50 grand on hiring Pixar to make their son's youtube video."

Because it'd be about 3 seconds long, right? :P

Re:nice idea

[owlnation]

Any Sports team that based an evaluation purely on a video deserves everything it gets.

However, as a starting point it's an excellent way of whittling down candidates and seeing what's out there. This is a good idea as long as it doesn't become exploitative (um, which for modelling and acting such things very much already are). Yes, you can alter perception to a degree with CG, with visual effects, or even just good camera direction -- however, this is highly skilled and very few people on Earth can do it, most of them already do indeed work in the film industry.

Incidentally if you think Pixar would do a YouTube video for 50 grand... try 50 grand per second, and you'd be closer.

Re:nice idea

[nacturation]

Of course, one would suspect something if a set of parents spent $50 grand on hiring Pixar to make their son's youtube video. Madam, we're very impressed by your son's video. Not only does he have a high polygon count, but the vertex shading is incredible.

A jock is not JUST an athlete.

[Anonymous Coward]

A jock is a stereotype of an athlete, which has considerable basis in reality and is a particular feature of American sports and high school culture. Essentially a jock is an arrogant, anti-intellectual athlete. A central portion of the stereotype is persecution of the less socially and athletically skilled but smarter types who hang around on tech websites like this one.

Apparently, in Europe being interested in both sports and intellectual pursuits is socially acceptable. This is not the case in most high schools in America. Since sports are good at making their practitioner desirable to women, and the athletic types get away with persecuting their social inferiors, there is quite a bit of bad blood between academic and athletic types here in the states.

Hope this helps!

Re:A jock is not JUST an athlete.

[SCHecklerX]

I think the main distinction is team sports. Football, Basketball, Baseball. When I was in high school, those are where I saw the jocks as described in these definitions. Not even the wrestlers acted like that (and our school was big into wrestling, with several of our guys wrestling at the state and national level). Nor did the track, or cross country athletes (of which I was one, as well as being a 'band fag').

Of course not all football/baseball/basketball players were like that, but I didn't see that behavior at all in any other sport.

Fast forward to today. Those adults playing team sports still strike me as dumb jocks vs. those who are runners, triathletes, cyclists, endurance athletes.

Just my observations in the central pennsylvania area. I realize it's likely different elsewhere.

Re:A jock is not JUST an athlete.

[niteice]

My HS must have been the exception. The majority of the football players (who were also frequently basketball and baseball players) were actually fairly nice guys, quite a few were in honors/AP classes. I dunno if the coach(es) told them to be nice, or if they genuinely were that way, but they were quite affable people.

Re:A jock is not JUST an athlete.

[Blakey Rat]

Oh shut up. You're making us all look bad, especially by being modded up.

Yeah, you had a bad experience in the AV club in high school, get over it. Go to your local park and find an ad-hoc football game, talk to the guys, then tell me they're all arrogant anti-intellectuals. Hell, some of the smartest people I know, in the most cutting-edge tech companies, have basketball and soccer teams organized.

Stereotypes are bad, mmmkay?

Re:A jock is not JUST an athlete.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you're HS isn't the exception. The other description is a caricature along the lines of Revenge of the Nerds.

Re:A jock is not JUST an athlete.

[Chris Burke]

Oh come one, he said it was a stereotype, which if you're going to offer that fact up means you know that it doesn't apply to everyone. And he's absolutely right that it has a basis in reality, the reality of our high school culture. High schools are demented, dementing places where social strata are formed based on fashion, and higher strata are allowed (and to maintain status often required) to harass lower strata while the faculty look on and smile. This is, of course, a generalization, and doesn't apply to every school. But I should hope that if you can't see any truth to this description of high school and the social pressures it creates, then you are probably in the minority.

It shouldn't be surprising at all that outside of a High School most athletes tend to be much nicer, more humble, and more accepting of intellectualism if not intellectuals themselves. A park pick-up game isn't passed through the filter of high school athletics. Hell, some of the worst "jocks" I knew in high school became vastly better human beings the very second you interacted with them outside of that pressure-cooker of social dysfunction.

There is definitely such a thing as a "jock" and they are by and large a byproduct of high schools where while the nerds may use the term "jock" derisively, it is most often used as an aspiration.

The fact that being a "jock" is completely meaningless after high school is why things get so much better in that regard, just like every meaningless social issue in high school gets better after high school.

Re:A jock is not JUST an athlete.

[Chris Burke]

I was a high school wrestler, and I always thought the reason I got along so well with them was that wrestling was the misfit sport much like I was a social misfit in other ways. I never noticed a wrestler (even though many of them played football) harassing non-athletes, while this was common for other sports. I also thought this was because wrestling wasn't considered a big deal at all at our school, our wrestling program was mediocre at best (some individuals went to state, but our team was celebrating like we won the olympics when it broke .5 winning record). But maybe not, I really don't know.

bullshit

[Jerry Beasters]

What kind of bullshit is this: "have become a standard component of college applications for jocks?" I work in a school in a major metropolitan area with many great sports players. I guarantee you that if this was a "standard component" of college applications in any way I would have heard of it before. Why must you stretch the truth? No where near a majority of "jocks" have even heard of this.

Re:bullshit

[Kingrames]

That's because they think they can't admit that they know anything about computers or they'll look less like a jock.

Re:bullshit

[nacturation]

What kind of bullshit is this: "have become a standard component of college applications for jocks?"

I work in a school in a major metropolitan area with many great sports players. I guarantee you that if this was a "standard component" of college applications in any way I would have heard of it before.

Why must you stretch the truth? No where near a majority of "jocks" have even heard of this. It's called marketing. Build up social proof by demonstrating responses of many others, highlight others' past successes, and give testimonials from similar people. Promote the concept as being "standard" and people will not want to be left out.

Mod parent off topic

[speaker of the truth]

Its great to see someone so enthusiastic about producing art, but you didn't respond to the article at all ;) But still, good luck on your dreams!

I was discussion the entrance audition videos

[MichaelCrawford]

Maybe I didn't emphasize them enough, but I pointed out that using videos for music school entrance auditions has been done for quite some time.

But thank you for your kind words.

Lots of hostility...

[jdtch]

You know, I can't help but feel that there's a lot of anger in this post. I was picked on in high school too, but you know what? Having moved on, I no longer harbor anger or resentment towards people who may resemble, by their extracurricular activities, people who picked on me in high school. Above all, I don't resort to the kind of name-calling that reminds one of all too many calls of "NEEEEERRRRRRRRDDDDDDD".

Re:Lots of hostility...

[WormholeFiend]

Yea, but it still feels good to vent.

It's totally off-topic, but the other day, I was stopped at a redlight, when I was approached by HS football jocks begging for change with their helmets.

I told the one that walked up to my car door: "It's kinda funny, I never see nerds out on the street, begging for change..."

Re:Lots of hostility...

[schnikies79]

Do they cost you $30-50k/year?

Re:Lots of hostility...

[Blakey Rat]

"begging for change with their helmets?" It's called fund raising, you asshole. Fire fighters do that too, with their helmets... I suppose you make fun of them as well.

I told the one that walked up to my car door: "It's kinda funny, I never see nerds out on the street, begging for change..."

Yeah, god forbid you see a "nerd" collecting money for charities to help children who received severe burns in fires.

Holy crap, are you seriously that much of a jerk? Did you literally say that in front of him?

Re:Lots of hostility...

[WormholeFiend]

well then, they should not sollicit money from people they piss off.

Re:Lots of hostility...

[Grishnakh]

Of course you never nerds fund raising, they don't participate in any extra-curricular activities that require as much money as sports do (equipment, uniforms, game fees.)

If they think these things are so important, why don't they pay for them out of their own pocket instead of begging other people for money? Athletics aren't important for the advancement of society.

I'd love to just sit around and hack on obscure and unpopular open-source software projects all day instead of having a real job, but somehow I don't think many people would be willing to donate money to that cause so I can pay my mortgage and bills.

Re:I'm going to music school someday!

[antifoidulus]

Question(since this is user generated video content we are talking about), did you do better than the cats playing the piano?

Jocks = Nerds?

[stainlesssteelpat]

Admittedly Jocks obviously have to have some intellectual capacity, those NFL plays are very complex and all, but isn't it a wapping assumption that the cognitive capacity is there for internet usage? Hell, our Aussie Jocks struggle at tapping kegs, let alone keys...

Re:I'm going to music school someday!

[jonathan_the_ninja]

Out of curiosity, what is in the grade 9 repertoire? I've always wanted to know these sorts of things, but they're just not documented very well on the internet. :)

Not quite accurate

[schnikies79]

I worked for a pro sports team and have seen more hours of game film than most slashdotters have sci-fi. Coaches and recruiters look at film and if it looks good, they go and watch them play in person or have them come in for a practice. Film has been used for years in recruiting but it has never been and is not currently the sole decider. Any recruiter worth his salt will not never try and recruit someone based solely on film. Do you really think that don't know that people will pick out the best film or even have it doctored?

A little side rant. Whats with this idea that you couldn't have been an academic in high school while playing sports? A significant number of the 10% of my class played sports, usually more than one. Very few on the other end of the academic scale did anything extracurricular. No they didn't get in the top 10% by taking bullshit classes either as our harder (advanced and AP) classes were weighted 5.0 on 4.0 scale.

Re:Not quite accurate

[schnikies79]

Sorry the shit typos. I forgot to use preview.

Re:Not quite accurate

[schnikies79]

We had two AP classes when I was in HS, calculus and biology. Chemistry was added a year after I graduated. They are probably more now (I graduated in '98 and went to a very rural school) but those two classes were full of sports players.

As far as advanced non-ap classes, we had English, college vocab and physics.

Re:Not quite accurate

[Eli Gottlieb]

I think it just comes from the fact that most people can't find time to excel in both sports and academics.

Re:Not quite accurate

[reddburn]

Our starting pitcher, who eventually wound up playing AAA minor league baseball, took those courses. When his shoulder wore out, he ended up going back to college and wound up attending law school at Princeton. Say what you will about attorneys, to get into a school like that, one has to exhibit an extraordinary and rare combination of academic talents. It's quite normal for someone to have the kind of work ethic necessary to compete at a high level of athletics who can transfer that to coursework. It starts at home - if the parents can push the kid past the mentality forced on them by typical coaches, the kid will do well in just about everything.

I'm inclined to agree with those who characterize the bitter ranting about "jocks" is a case of PSND (Post Secondary Nerd Disorder), in which embittered former nerds fantasize about their former aggressors really living the lives that mommy used to say they would ("Junior, those kids will be gas station attendants, and you'll be a CEO!"). Of course, we all know that this isn't always the case: often the nerds end up working for the former "jocks," who found a way to make their charisma work well for them in the business world after earning that MBA that nerds so roundly criticize as "grad school for jocks."

Re:Not quite accurate

[schnikies79]

I just changed it after that because I realized, who gives a shit?

I'm a shit-jock? Yea I played sports in high school, so what?

Re:Not quite accurate

[chad.koehler]

An off topic question (because this happened to me)

With the classes weighted, how did they take into account actual credit hours into GPA?

As a freshman I took 7 classes instead of the suggested 6 (who really wanted to waste their time in study hall?), with three honors classes weighted at 5.0.

Some class mates that also had three honors classes only took 6 classes with a study hall.

Since study hall didn't have any associated credit/cost with it, the GPA came in favor of those who took less classes.

My GPA was ((4 * 4) + (5 * 3)) / 7 = 4.43
Others received ((4 * 3) + (5 * 3)) / 6 = 4.5

I brought this up to the school administration -- they made some changes the next semester, but the changes weren't applied retroactively. After that I never paid any more attention to GPA -- just having fun.

Michael Patrick Dumbell-Smith changed his name

[MichaelCrawford]

... for the stage. I was born Michael Crawford. I usually go by "Mike", but my stage name is "Michael David Crawford" - my full name - to try to disambiguate.

Unfortunately, he's had decades to build his fame, I'm just starting on mine, so it's going to be a long time before my PageRank can crush his.

I'm afraid I don't know yet

[MichaelCrawford]

It's going to be a long time, and a great many hours of practice and study, before I get to grade nine.

However, I have in mind to play the piano arrangement of Flight of the Bumblebee for one of my audition songs. I'd say that's at least grade nine material. (If you don't know the piece, it's extremely fast).

To gradually build my speed and dexterity, I play just scales for about an hour every day, and am gradually learning them all - there are twelve major scales, and thirty-six minor scales (natural, harmonic and melodic), one of each for the twelve tones in the western musical scale.

My buddy Stefan Youngs played for the London Irish

[MichaelCrawford]

... Rugby Club, at the same time as he was a marketing exec at IBM. As part of his work he had to learn to program in COBOL, FORTRAN, JCL and IBM 360 assembly code. So yeah, you're right.

Have you a link?

[MichaelCrawford]

I presume you're referring to a youtube video?

My cat's musical career didn't last very long - the one time she ever tried to walk on my piano keyboard, the sound scared her and she would never go on it again.

Re:Have you a link?

[ASBands]

He's most likely referring to this or one of the many things that show up on the "related videos" sidebar.

Other sites?

[fahrbot-bot]

...standard component of college applications for jocks (as well as for aspiring actors, dancers, and musicians...

Where's the site for aspiring p0rn stars?

Re:Lewis Scolnick says:

[superpulpsicle]

Jocks (can only) think about sports.

Two words...

[GarfBond]

Aleksey Vayner...

'nuff said.

Reminds me of...

[Yold]

Noell(siq) Devine. I saw him ripping it up in high school on YouTube, now he's playing for #3 WVU. I'm sure most slashdotters don't give a fuck about football, but his YouTube highlight tapes made him hyped-up, aggressively recruited, and somewhat famous.

Re:Reminds me of...

[Khakionion]

"I'm sure most slashdotters don't give a fuck about football..."

Well, not enough to point out WVU's current rank at the time of your post.

Hasn't Always Been That Way

[BlackGriffen]

Consider, for instance, Edwin Hubble: astronomer, lawyer, and quite the athlete. Highlights: "Usually he placed in Big Ten dual track meets, in both the shot put and the high jump. [...] At Oxford Hubble [...] competed in track and field events and swam on the water polo team. He later said he fought an exhibition boxing match against the French national champion, and did well enough that promoters wanted him to train to fight the world heavyweight champion." Also from photo credits: "The University of Chicago 1909 intercollegiate championship basketball team. Hubble is on the left."

I wonder if this is one of those things that changed with WWII? Perhaps the 60s? Or maybe Hubble was an exception, and the problem is older.

A way...

[MrKaos]

for nerds to bully Jocks.

It amazes me what can be done with internet technology.

Am I doing something wrong?

[cephus440]

Using my son's highlight footage for a class (VC&D) project and uploading it to YouTube?
LINK
Maybe I should be saving that for scouts....
Either way, the video is dark, but what do you think?