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Excuse Me, Your Cut Scene is In My Game

Via GameSetWatch, an interesting critique of game cut scenes at the blog ItBurns. He compares and contrasts several games and their use of story, gameplay, and in-game movies (with video) to get across his point. "Splinter Cell takes a more simulative approach to many of the character interactions that occur in the game. In the next clip, Sam Fisher grabs his target, Sadono, from behind and places a gun at his temple. Using Sadono as a shield, Fisher backs towards the door and forces Sadono's head into the retinal scanner to open the lock. Fisher continues through the doorway towards the roof, interrogating Sadono as they walk to the waiting helicopter for extraction. At no time during this sequence does the player relinquish control."

142 comments

  1. As opposed to Xeno Saga... by twilightzero · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...which was more like an interactive movie with occasional times when you could play... ;)

    --

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    1. Re:As opposed to Xeno Saga... by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      There were playable sections? Even those tiny bits were straight forward, no options, move from point A to point B. It felt like another cutscene.

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    2. Re:As opposed to Xeno Saga... by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      Well what did you expect when the game is subtitled:
      "Xenosaga: Hey, you got your GAME in my CUTSCENE!"

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    3. Re:As opposed to Xeno Saga... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't mind that.

      I did mind Yasunori Mitsuda having forgotten how to compose a good tune. Seriously -- orchestra music? If I wanted to listen to background music that generic, I'd watch Star Wars.

    4. Re:As opposed to Xeno Saga... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can music be limited by the instrument that it's played on? Damn kids and your electronic toys.

  2. Rendering Power by UnderDark · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Cut scenes were originally used to fowward the plot in games because the computational power to render those scenes was not available in a real-time system. They were run in batches and the resulting movie was tied to a trigger in-game. It stands to reason that as computers became more powerful, the reliance on pre-rendered cut-scenes would diminish. For evidence, look at HL2: almost no cut-scenes at all.

    1. Re:Rendering Power by Altus · · Score: 2, Interesting


      I don't think this guy cares if they are movies or if they are rendered in the game engine (though movies are more jarring especially if they look better than the game play). I think this guys complaint is that you don't have control over the character.

      In the Splinter Cell example he likes the fact that the player always has control. I haven't played the game but I wonder. He describes the actions the character goes though and says that they player has control, but is this still basically on rails or could the player choose to do something completely different?

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    2. Re:Rendering Power by LameAssTheMity · · Score: 1

      I was rather shocked at the intro of Episode 2, where there actually WAS a cut-scene.

    3. Re:Rendering Power by twosmokes · · Score: 1

      HL2 certainly has cut-scenes. You might be able to run around the room you're stuck in, but you certainly have to just sit there and wait for the NPCs to quit talking at you before you can continue.

      Being able to crouch, jump, and run in circles while exposition happens isn't any more fun than just watching a pre-rendered movie. Not that I have a problem with either method.

    4. Re:Rendering Power by twosmokes · · Score: 1, Informative

      You're pretty much on rails. Really Splinter Cell is a terrible example of being able to control your character. It's been a long time since I played it (and only the first one), but from what I remember you have to just stand there and listen to dialog until you get a "Mission Accomplished" message. I think you can drag the guy around, but the level of interactivity stops there.

      On top of that, I believe right after that there's a.... cut-scene. The type where you watch a little movie.

    5. Re:Rendering Power by Gulthek · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Please, enlighten us to a game that isn't "basically on rails". Many games hide the rails very well, but all games are on them.

    6. Re:Rendering Power by rhombic · · Score: 1

      Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. There are a handful of short, in-game cutscenes where you lose control of your character. One or two places where you have the possibility of screwing up & having no choice but to re-load (Martin getting whacked near the end). Other than that, you can totally abandon the plot & just screw around until you get bored & quit.

      --
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    7. Re:Rendering Power by tilandal · · Score: 1

      Your not really on rails. You can at anytime release the guy, shoot the guy snap his neck, drag him anywhere you want. You can do pretty much anything. Most of those things will automatically fail your mission but that is very different. Splinter Cell is a linear game for the most part. There are things you must do to continue but that is a totally different compliant.

    8. Re:Rendering Power by Gulthek · · Score: 1

      Crimminy. This is valid for ANY game. The rails are still just as much there for any other game. I submit that Super Mario World has just as much freedom, you just get bored a lot faster.

      If, by freedom, you mean the ability to dive away from the plot into inanity then the ruler has got to be Ultima VII. You could not only completely abandon the quest, but take up and progress in many profitable jobs from blacksmithing, to carting goods and produce, to baking, to piracy.

    9. Re:Rendering Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your not really on rails. You can at anytime release the guy, shoot the guy snap his neck, drag him anywhere you want. You can do pretty much anything. Most of those things will automatically fail your mission but that is very different.

      How is this different from a cut-scene, other than the player being required to hold the "grab Sadono" button the whole time, and being unable to skip it? (and, of course, being forced to do the mission again if they release the button at any point during the lengthy dialog)
    10. Re:Rendering Power by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      Please, enlighten us to a game that isn't "basically on rails". Many games hide the rails very well, but all games are on them. "Frontier retains the same principal component of Elite--namely completely open-ended gameplay--and adds to this realistic physics and an accurately modelled galaxy. There is no plot within Frontier, nor are there pre-scripted missions. [..] As a consequence, Frontier cannot be completed or "won"--instead, players themselves decide what to aspire to and set out to achieve it."

      And that game is 14 years old.

      The Mercenary games, although they had objectives and some scripting, also allowed a large freedom of movement (and in the case of Mercenary III, at least six distinct ways to achieve your objective).
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    11. Re:Rendering Power by flitty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When cut scenes are integral to the story, even interactive cutscenes such as *SPOILER* the death of Andrew Ryan in Bioshock, How do you tell your story without your character "losing control". Either directly, or sitting in a room listening to deposition, you can't extend the story without losing control usually. Giving andrew ryan a gun to shoot at you so it becomes a kill/be killed scenario was disengenuous to the characters/story. I think that the cutscene where you kill Andrew Ryan, and the underlying theme of Bioshock (a man chooses, a slave obeys) addresses directly the limitations of video games and cutscenes. Without the cutscenes and storyline, you've got GTA: Rapture.

      --
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    12. Re:Rendering Power by Luyseyal · · Score: 1

      Just had to get in a "me too" comment for Ultima VII. Hot damn I loved that game.

      -l

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    13. Re:Rendering Power by happyemoticon · · Score: 1

      I suppose the key is how quickly you get bored, or, put differently, how enjoyable the game is in terms of its actual gameplay.

      In my opinion, the cutscenes and strict scripting (you must agree that while all games have constraints, some have more strict constraints than others) also serve the insidious purpose of disguising how bad, unfun or non-innovative the game is. They are a kind of crutch. You end up playing to advance the storyline, not for the sheer joy of playing. And I think this kind of story-heavy game-lite type of video game is bad for video games as a craft, because it focuses on churning out an endless series of thinly-veiled clones as opposed to games which will stand as classics.

    14. Re:Rendering Power by somersault · · Score: 1

      "Other than that, you can totally abandon the plot & just screw around until you get bored & quit."

      You can do that in pacman too, I don't think that's exactly what he meant by not being on rails.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    15. Re:Rendering Power by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      For evidence, look at HL2: almost no cut-scenes at all. And yet I still maintain that, in spite of the fact that this is hyped so much, it's a horrible thing. HL and HL2 have awful storytelling compared to other games because of their idiotic insistence of not using cut scenes. Cut scenes are the most immersive, dramatic way to tell a story, and it's for those damn good reasons that games still use them.
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    16. Re:Rendering Power by dishpig · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Please, enlighten us to a game that isn't "basically on rails". Many games hide the rails very well, but all games are on them.

      Well, I know it's not the genre you're thinking, but The Sims comes pretty close. You can take any path you like. Will a game be successful if your Sims pee on the floor and die in kitchen fires? That depends.

      The question is, how do you measure "success" in a game? By completing objectives or by engagement? If your answer is the first, yes, you are restricting the parameters of the game and it must be guided - it is necessary to push it down a fairly straight track (or at least a choice of several). If your primary goal is to be fully engaged in the game itself, then just having a good time playing can be enough, regardless of the scripted objectives completed.

    17. Re:Rendering Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point about "not being able to skip" is wrong in pretty much every interrogation in every Splinter Cell, you can quickly advance the dialog if you've already heard it. You also can't really accidentally release people, you hold them automatically until you knock them out or kill them (the A button VS right or left trigger, you don't do it by mistake). I've never accidentally failed while interrogating or coercing someone in any of the Splinter Cell games, and if you ever do it you'll probably be wise enough never to repeat it.

      Is virtually every mission in GTA a cut-scene? There are people talking, certainly, and you have very specific mission objectives that you usually can't stray from at all. That means it's filled with cut-scenes, right?

    18. Re:Rendering Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So.... standing there in the MIDDLE of the story is not immersive?

      They make a point of never taking you out of first person, there isn't even a gordon model for a 3rd ppov to see in the first part of hl2.

      You may need to re-think your logic

      Playing most other games, cutscenes make me feel like I'm watching a story rather than being in the story. They may look awesome, and cool, and be very meaning ful, but in the end I wish I was there.

    19. Re:Rendering Power by jdigriz · · Score: 1

      Dwarf Fortress, SimCity, Eve-Online. No rails in any of those (well, except for the railguns in Eve).

    20. Re:Rendering Power by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it was just re-capping Ep.1 for people who either hadn't played it (probably no one, but they're covering their bases) or, more likely, people who HAD played it, but had forgotten parts of it.

    21. Re:Rendering Power by Gideon+Fubar · · Score: 1

      I think i'm in love with your aesthetics.

      i'm wasn't sure that Eve counted in this competition, but then i remembered WoW..

      --
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    22. Re:Rendering Power by TexVex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't confuse "rails" with "constraints".

      In the Final Fantasy games, you have to complete each piece of the game in order before you can move on to the next. They are linear. The game is all about the story, and that fact is thrown in your face with every non-skippable ten-minute cutscene. This is what is meant by rails.

      But something like Crackdown is not on rails. You can go anywhere in the city you want. You can turn on your own faction, just to see how many hit squads it takes for them to kill you. You can kill the enemy bosses in whatever order you want. You can pick and choose what side-activities you want. Don't like driving? The game is winnable without it. Basically the game will be fun whether you take the structure it provides or instead just use it as a sandbox and entertain yourself with it.

      In a game-on-rails, you either "play" the game exactly how the designer intended it or you hit a solid wall and can't do anything else. You go forward, replaying when you fail, or you quit playing.

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    23. Re:Rendering Power by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Yes. That is not immersive, not from the perspective of storytelling. Sure, one could argue that it makes the game world feel more seamless (a different thing entirely), but it makes the story feel more distant and less relevant. Even Halo 3 (an excellent game otherwise) suffers from this problem to a small extent, in some parts where there's minor plot exposition through a scripted event that you watch in first person (I'm specifically thinking of the part where you're defending the Marine base on Earth, and the Sarge is talking to Cmdr Keyes on a viewscreen here). It just doesn't work as well as a cut scene.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    24. Re:Rendering Power by Enlightenment · · Score: 1

      We are talking about Half-Life, right? Are you sure you're not talking about some other HL? Half-Life 1, 2, and the episodes are all great pieces of storytelling.

    25. Re:Rendering Power by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Yes we are, and no they aren't. Although I haven't played Half-Life 2 episodes 1 and 2, so they might be, but I'm gonna take a wild guess that they're like the first two games.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    26. Re:Rendering Power by wishmechaos · · Score: 1

      First person storytelling isn't necessarily more inmersive than 3rd person. I mean, have you ever watched a movie in first person? It gets boring kinda quickly. There're only a handful of examples in movie history, because you can't really feel what your character feels... until then, it's easier to connect with your character by watching him/her.

    27. Re:Rendering Power by Kidbro · · Score: 2, Informative

      - Elder Scrolls (I only played III and IV, but they both qualify)
      - EVE Online
      - Elite
      - Sim City & clones

      I see you contesting someone else's claim that Oblivion isn't railed.. and I honestly do not understand what your criteria is, then. I fail to see how a game can get much more free than the Elder Scrolls games. They can become bigger, yes, but less railed? Doubtful.

    28. Re:Rendering Power by mlheur · · Score: 1

      GTA3, never finished the game, played easily 300 hours, too much fun flipping cars.

    29. Re:Rendering Power by Kingrames · · Score: 1

      I'm gonna say Portal even though it's linear, because there's a point at which you have to acknowledge that your definition of "on rails" doesn't cut it. I can think of no other game that offered as much freedom.

      Except for programming languages, perhaps, but you'll probably insist that those aren't games.

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    30. Re:Rendering Power by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      What about Animal Crossing. You can kind of do whatever you want. You never lose. There are no goals. There are certain things that happen when you do other things, but nothing is compulsory, and there is no end to the game. Contrast this with other open-ended games like Simcity, where you can build the city however you want, but get penalized if your city is badly planned, Eventually you will run out of money. In Animal Crossing, you can go fishing all day, every day for 3 months, and nothing bad will happen to your character. If you don't play for 6 months, there will be a bunch of weeds, and cockroaches under your furniture, but that can be cleaned up in about 1/2 an hour.

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    31. Re:Rendering Power by heinousjay · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm gonna have to just disagree with you. Cut scenes take me right out of the game, and most times annoy the hell out of me because they really aren't telling me anything I need to know to enjoy playing.

      And truth be told, the story is nearly always irrelevant, and typically about as cheesy as a daytime soap.

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    32. Re:Rendering Power by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      I really wish I had read this comment before I replied to your other comment. Now that you've exposed the fact that you don't even bother basing your opinion on experience, I can simply dismiss you.

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    33. Re:Rendering Power by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Yes, because having played Half-Life 1 and 2 counts as not basing my opinion on experience.</sarcasm>

      What universe do you live in, where playing the games doesn't count as experience?

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    34. Re:Rendering Power by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Martin getting whacked near the end? See, I *never* would have wanted to see that, say, presented in a nice cutscene while playing the game instead of hearing it from you. I know anyone who's anyone has already long since beaten the game, but loser that I am, I started playing not too long ago.

      I'm sure you didn't mean to do that maliciously, but... nice spoiler? :(

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    35. Re:Rendering Power by Flentil · · Score: 1

      The portal hazard course is short and always the same. The places you are allowed to use the portal gun are carefully limited. Portal, like all of Half-Life 1 & 2 is completely on rails.

    36. Re:Rendering Power by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      I see you contesting someone else's claim that Oblivion isn't railed.. and I honestly do not understand what your criteria is, then.

      I can only assume he's upset that the main quest exists... which is, frankly, just plain stupid.

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    37. Re:Rendering Power by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1

      I think we're still at a point in the evolution of games where, for the most part, you're picking between either rails or story. You don't get a lot of freedom unless you abandon the story.

      Even a game like, say, one of the GTA or Elder Scrolls series that lets you sandbox style do what you want generally lets you do so at the cost of the story not progressing at all while you do.

    38. Re:Rendering Power by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      It stands to reason that as computers became more powerful, the reliance on pre-rendered cut-scenes would diminish.
      I respectfully disagree. No matter how powerful computing becomes it will always be more economical (from a computer resources perspective) to have a cut scene, rather than live play. Obviously, this is because the console can cache and optimize data when there are no variables in the environment (read: player in control)... this goes to the very heart of why cut scenes always look better than normal gameplay.

      Will the gameplay of tomorrow look like the cut scenes today? Certainly, but the cutscenes of tomorrow will always be better than the normal gameplay.
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    39. Re:Rendering Power by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Cut scenes were originally used to fowward the plot in games because the computational power to render those scenes was not available in a real-time system.

      Maybe so, but...

      It stands to reason that as computers became more powerful, the reliance on pre-rendered cut-scenes would diminish. For evidence, look at HL2: almost no cut-scenes at all.

      Come on, you've played Half-Life 2, but not 1? It's, what, $9.95 on Steam, now?

      Half-Life 1 proved definitively that you could have a relatively deep plot not only without pre-rendered cutscenes, but almost entirely without pre-scripted sequences, too. Beginning and end battles, sure, but the plot does develop subtly between them, without having to interrupt the gameplay (much) to do it. Take the houndeyes in kennels...

      Yes, you were forced into a certain path. But I'd argue it takes a lot more finesse to leave the UI alone and force the player along that path by sheer circumstance, rather than just grabbing them by the face, slapping black bars across the scene, and saying "You! Player! You go here now."

      I'd almost argue that Half-Life was better at that than Half-Life 2 or its "episodes".

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    40. Re:Rendering Power by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Being able to crouch, jump, and run in circles while exposition happens isn't any more fun than just watching a pre-rendered movie.

      You apparently haven't found the little things they leave you to do -- for example, in HL2 "Red Letter Day", there is a mini version of the teleporter you're about to use on a desk somewhere. You could easily spend most of that time playing with setting various items on that teleporter and testing it out. Or climbing on boxes.

      I did appreciate one technique used for most of Portal, though -- a voice talks to you without interrupting you at all (mostly). By simply being fast enough, you can, in fact, skip large chunks of dialog (if you want to), though you're not likely that fast the first time through.

      I also appreciate it a LOT for the shorter sequences. Nothing more jarring than grabbing control from you for ten seconds, then giving it back -- or more frustrating the second time through, even if you can skip it.

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    41. Re:Rendering Power by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      What you're basically arguing for is movies.

      Yes, I like a good movie, and I won't say one is better than the other. I will say that I have seen brilliant storytelling done (HL being one example of this) in first person. However, you do need to pay attention.

      And I have also seen cut scenes that just made the rest of the game worth playing, more real and personal.

      I think what we're seeing here is a fundamentally different medium. Movies (cut scenes) and games are two completely different ways of telling stories, and I don't think you can really say one is better than the other -- only that you like one better than the other, or more importantly, that you like a particular game (or cutscene, or game+cutscenes) better than another.

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    42. Re:Rendering Power by grumbel · · Score: 1

      How about XCom:UFO? Sure, you still have to defeat the final boss at the end and your scientific discoveries also add a bit of linearity to it, but that aside its a mindbogglingly awesome piece of game and has no visible linearity enforcing borders. You simply have the earth and some alien invaders and its your job is to protect earth. There are no preset missions, since all missions you get are the result of your own action (i.e. shoot down alien ship -> send ground troop to investigate; you build a base, aliens attack the base, its your job to defend it, so you literally build the very level you play in).

      Other example would be EF2000, a flight simulator with a dynamic campaign. It is simply you against the Russians, there are no predefined events. It is a war simulation at work, you fly mission, you can plan missions and all that stuff. If you destroy a runway, it will take time to rebuild it, you can take over enemy runways and all that stuff. At any point in the game you can fly to wherever you want and do whatever you want.

      I think one of the big problems with todays games is that they are far to focused on trying to tell a 'story' and babysit the player through each event instead of creating an environment and just let it play out. I absolutely don't mind a *good* linear story, but most games really don't have anything good to tell and would be much better of to create a dynamic environment instead. And before somebody mentioned GTA, yeah, thats less linear than say a Half Life 2, but it still fails to create an environment. It is a sandbox that gets reset all the time, your actions almost never have consequences. One second you are chased down by military, the next second you are free again and back to zero stars.

      What games these days miss is that little bit of "Simcity" that brings you out of the main first person action and into a mode of strategic planing. When you tell the whole game from the protagonists perspective you are *very* limited in how large the environment can be and what consequences it can have. Which is why you have multiple modes in games like XCom, EF2000 or Syndicate. You don't just clean up the enemy in some first/third person shooting action, you also have the freedom to research weapons, plan your attacks and defenses, equip your team and all that stuff. Its a thing that can be found in quite a few old classics games, but almost never in current days blockbuster and that is quite sad as I would love to have the gameplay of a Gears of War or Full Spectrum Warrior combined with XComs strategic planing.

      Games these days are to much nicely painted corridors and to little worlds that want to be experienced.

    43. Re:Rendering Power by grumbel · · Score: 1

      ### So.... standing there in the MIDDLE of the story is not immersive?

      It is not immersive, at least for me, because it lacks context. Why am I there? What is my mission? etc. You never get a proper answer and you don't have any way to have an interactive conversation with any of the NPCs to figure it out either. You run from 'shoot this' to 'shoot that' and almost never does it feel like any of that has a purpose. You don't fight your way to attack the Citadel, you simply end there at some point by pure coincidence (You where stuck in a Teleporter for a week, hey, the rebels almost won in the meantime... how lucky) and you get your super-weapon that way to.

      And speaking about cutscenes in HL2, what I find especially annoying is that there is a *HUGE* cut between gameplay and cutscenes. Sure, it all happens in first person and the controls don't change, but the overall gameplay is totally different. Prescripted cutscene Alyx is clever and helpful, Mr. Nobody NPC, driven by AI and member of your squad is as stupid as a brick and requires a ton of babysitting. It feels totally different and it is often way to clear what part is 'shooting action' and which is '"interactive" cutscene'. That the game is completly linear of course destroys a lot of immersion as well, the game world is always a small corridor and never a place where you can freely navigate around.

    44. Re:Rendering Power by WNight · · Score: 1

      Well, in Oblivion, the main quest does suck for a lot of reasons. Not terminally, but in little console-friendly ways. The levelling in the whole game means that the Soldiers are in front of Kvatch from the time you're level 2 until the time you're level 20, still at a standstill, but with bigger monsters.

      And where do they get off having the main quest be one for the fate of the world, run, run, run, or go off and collect side quests for a while, do totally irrelevant things, then have the characters saying 'We need to hurry' just before you abandon them for another few months.

      They picked a plot suited for a game on rails, ran your on rails through the intro, and then give you total freedom to make the demon hordes wait simply by not choosing to fight yet.

      Maybe they should have picked slightly less apocalyptic things, or something that was central to the character so that it was obvious why it wasn't progressing when you weren't there.

      Oh, and where did those bandits get their glass armor? I was off raiding ancient elven ruins, they never leave their camps...

    45. Re:Rendering Power by Krakhan · · Score: 1

      Most turn based 4x strategy games (Master of Orion 1/2, Civilization, etc.) come to mind.

      You can basically do whatever you want during the game, with all kinds of options for starting, or even just screw around. The game can basically end when you decide to if you get far enough in the game. Of course, the fact that you can tweak and toggle settings in them giving all kinds of replayability.

    46. Re:Rendering Power by Negrin · · Score: 1

      There is one more reason the first-person cutscenes in HL2 have always felt wrong to me, and the longer they were the more apparent it became. I'm talking about the fact you--in the body of Morgan Freeman, supposedly everybody's hero---are basically a mute retard. How can we even speak about immersiveness when a bunch of NPCs talk to you, talk about you among themselves, talk about issues which crucially involve you, and all you do is... stare? Or, as a matter of fact, run around the room while they are addressing you specifically, so immersiveness would have you stand there in front of them and at least maintain eye contact. I see a strong clash between all the exposition Gordon Freeman gets as a fully developped hero and the fact that in reality he's just an empty shell for you, the player. The empty shell thing works well in games when your character is a nobody, just a nameless marine or whatnot. But it falls apart with someone like Freeman. For the record, I'm not saying I don't like HL or that the story sucks---far from it, actually. I love it, but I've simply always seen very specific issues with how they decided to present the plot. Solution? Hell if I know. Probably not regular cinematics. I guess if only you the possibility to actually interact--even to a small extent--with the NPCs, both during cutscenes and otherwise. And that also includes Gordon Freeman not being a damn mute.

    47. Re:Rendering Power by rhombic · · Score: 1

      Sorry, didn't mean to put in a spoiler for a three year old game ;). Not really a spoiler, he only gets whacked if you screw up, then you have to re-load. It's the only "success is not possible, please reload from a saved game" point in the game.

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      1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
    48. Re:Rendering Power by Gravatron · · Score: 1
      The Mute hero has been used before in two other critically acclaimed series: The Legend of Zelda, and hrono Trigger/Chross. It is hard to tell a story like that, but it can be and has been done successfully.

      With Gordon, the key principle is your Gordon freeman: everyman. Hes not an epic hero, or a warrior, or some chosen one, he's just an average joe lab worker who gets this fame built around him. I think Dr. Green even points out the oddity of this, during one of the late game rants in half-life 2.


      Now, some dialogue choices and multiple paths though the story could be interesting to see in half-life 3. I take it though, that valve wants gordon to gain fame/infamy though his actions, and not any words.

    49. Re:Rendering Power by Negrin · · Score: 1

      Yes, at some point during the writing of my post above I was going to mention Zelda but I must've forgotten before I got to the right point. In Zelda it doesn't bug me the least bit. It's part of the legend thing, I guess. What also helps, I'm sure, is that the dialog is written rather than spoken. To be honest, it might actually be the principal issue here.

      Now HL2 is a different thing for me, not because of who Gordon is in theory, but who he is in practice. I will admit that for some reason I have never played HL1---however, I do know who Gordon is in that game. However, by the time we get to HL2, he has all the fame and the whatnot (sure, I know it was all built around him), he becomes a more full-fledged character, he meets people he's met before, and so on, and so on. I realize perfectly well that he's supposed to be the everyman, but in my view he's become way too iconic for that, if you know what I mean. If we compare Half-Life and Legend of Zelda (which, taken out of context, must be a damn weird pair to compare...), Link is much more of a blank-slate character than Gordon Freeman, not least because each time he's technically a different person.

      Concluding, I know exactly what you mean and I understand how a mute hero functions, but in my view it's a model much more suited for (1) fantasy-fairy-taley stories than those somewhat grounded in realism, or at least beliveability, and (2) text-based dialog rather than spoken one. Both points illustrate why it works better in Zelda and Chrono Trigger than in Half-Life. In my opinion, natch.

    50. Re:Rendering Power by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      WOW, for all its quests, isn't on rails. It isn't really the same thing as a single player game, but whatever. You can do quests, fight with the other factions, slaughter pigs, go fishing, whatever. Hell, I like to go find the cool scenery built for my amusement and just look at it.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    51. Re:Rendering Power by halcyon1234 · · Score: 1

      Nei dies halfway through.

    52. Re:Rendering Power by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 1

      LucasArts' Thrillville: Off the Rails.

      --
      Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
    53. Re:Rendering Power by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Glad to hear it. It's only been out a year and a half though, and even less time than that for PS3 owners. No biggie though...

      I was really enthusiastic about the game when it first came out and played quite a bit, but was really disappointed when I discovered the auto-scaling in the game (which sort of ruins - for me at least - the whole point of making your character stronger and collecting better and more powerful loot). So, I put the game down for a while, and only recently started playing it again with a new character.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    54. Re:Rendering Power by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      There's some good mods around to fix that, do a bit of googling. After a while the levelling system becomes a bore as well tbqh.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
  3. I hate cut scenes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    At no time during this sequence does the player relinquish control.
    To me, that's the key. Meshing the storyline into the game play is the right way to do it, whereas forcing the player to suddenly stop playing and listen to some silly dialog is the wrong way. Getting it "right" isn't easy to do, of course. Some games put a variety of sources of information scattered throughout the game (like dropped items, computer terminals, whatever) that in theory you are supposed to read. In practice, these also distract from the game and frequently break the immersion.

    Another game that did it "properly" was Prince of Persia: Sands of Time... where a lot of the plot-advancing stuff occurred during gameplay (e.g. the main character musing aloud).

    The idea is that the player wants to play out the storyline of a cool movie. Not watch short clips from a movie that get in the way of controlling action scenes.
    1. Re:I hate cut scenes by ObiWanStevobi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I respectfully disagree. Several games that do not relinquish control, but restrict actions, during a "cut scene" are annoying. For instance Gears of War while you are on the radio. All it does is make you walk really slow. I found that slow walk terribly annoying for some reason. In Half Life, they stand in front of the doorway until they are done talking, also pretty annoying if you had already heard it or didn't care to hear it the first time. For me, I'd rather not have control instead of still being in control of a useless character.

      I don't know why, but I'm still in control, I'm still in an action mindset and I'm more likely to miss the parts of the story the game wanted to get to me.

    2. Re:I hate cut scenes by rkanodia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Metroid Prime 3 has a lot of 'plot updates/game hints' that take the form of someone contacting you on the radio. Unlike Metal Gear Solid or Resident Evil, however, this generally doesn't interrupt the flow of gameplay at all - you can be blasting Metroids left and right with your Plasma Cannon while General Whoever tells you about your new objective. While the game also contains its fair share of 'true' cutscenes, I found the radio communications to be a good way to keep things moving without constant interruptions in gameplay. Personally, I always found the radio in Metal Gear Solid to be heavily immersion-breaking; why would an enemy let me just stand there and talk to my intelligence agency for five minutes?

    3. Re:I hate cut scenes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure it's possible to get around the whole "guy blocking the door until you're done talking" thing, though. You could design the game so that it's context sensitive (where if the player runs up right next to the NPC-door-blocker, he'll just interrupt his canned speech and mutter something to the effect of "I'll just shut up and get out of your way now". Of course, then you run into the trouble of having a first time player accidentally trip the "interrupt" portion of the NPC behavior when he really wanted to hear the whole speech)

    4. Re:I hate cut scenes by Vacardo · · Score: 0

      However, there are some games (Portal comes to mind) where spoken dialog will be cut-short if you move through a level steadily enough.

      Unfortunately, designers can't predict the average gamer's pace - and we all have our own individual playing styles. If a game requires that I have to sit down and shut up for exposition's sake, I'll usually put up with it... otherwise, I might miss out on key plot/tactics ideas for an upcoming area. If I want wanton destruction with no storyline, I'll hit Team Fortress 2.

  4. Get off my lawn by ObiWanStevobi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Cut scenes are just like anything else in gaming, they might suck, they might be good. It's all a matter of taste. Take FF for example. Every FF game will have pretty much a feature length movie built into it. Now if you don't have the slightest care why you are fighting strange looking birds or large rocks, you probably hate the cutscenes. But if you want to have any idea what is going on in the strange plots, the cut scenes are a must.

    Plus most of us can't sit on the edge of our seats for hours on end. The cut scenes are good for a bit of relaxation and setting up the mindframe for your next objective. Now if the scenes don't drive a good story, and don't prepare you for what is going to happen next, yes, they do suck. But that isn't because it is a cutscene, it's because it's a shitty game.

    1. Re:Get off my lawn by Seakip18 · · Score: 1

      Plus most of us can't sit on the edge of our seats for hours on end. Not saying I haven't, but I usually don't enjoy sitting on the edge for hours at a time playing a game, flying through the experience. I look at cut scenes as a way of the game saying "Hey, you are finished with this part of the plot. Get up and go take a walk before coming back." Final Fantasy VII did that a good bit(Sector Plate falling, Aeris (DELETED SPOILER), Ancient Temple, and so forth)
      --
      import system.cool.Sig;
    2. Re:Get off my lawn by masticina · · Score: 1

      Yup in Final Fantasy they are a needed "evil". I mean yeah sometimes you would just desire you could rush through but ah, you would miss important information and of course the reason to hate of love a character. Ever since FF VII we got may cut scenes that are important! Sure you might feel cheated out of the game decides you have to go to jail but hey it is all in the name of the story. Without such fixed plot twists you probably wouldn't even know why you are fighting. And you wouldn't get the feelings needed to really dislike the bad guys and to care for your characters!

      --
      Codefile Defected to another Hexadimal Range refresh your CHAOSTACK.NLM file with a new copy
    3. Re:Get off my lawn by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      You neatly summed up why I hate Final Fantasy.

      I'll never understand how people can have such a good time watching a long movie with such a poor story. Especially when they say it's a game.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    4. Re:Get off my lawn by masticina · · Score: 1

      Hate it or love it, FF does it is supposed to do Entertain!

      --
      Codefile Defected to another Hexadimal Range refresh your CHAOSTACK.NLM file with a new copy
    5. Re:Get off my lawn by dintech · · Score: 1

      That's true. I'm entertained by other people's hate so I'm enjoying it without even playing it, huh?

    6. Re:Get off my lawn by masticina · · Score: 1

      Yeah well, it isn't fair to judge a game without playing it..or trying to play it! There are many games I dont like the vibe from, ya know you play 15 minutes..you read up on it and you think "Blah!". Still I don't judge them!

      --
      Codefile Defected to another Hexadimal Range refresh your CHAOSTACK.NLM file with a new copy
  5. Metal Gear by king-manic · · Score: 1

    Metal Gear uses in game rendering when ever possible. But it also uses film clips when pseudo stock film would advance the story is a better style then in game scenes. I think most games are moving away from pre-rendered cut scenes as they tend to break the illusion of your world a little. FFXII was alright as the cut scenes were noticeably better but in the same style .FFVII was terrible for breaking the illusion with frequent cutscenes in a style very different from the rest of the game.

    --
    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
    1. Re:Metal Gear by Osty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Metal Gear uses in game rendering when ever possible. But it also uses film clips when pseudo stock film would advance the story is a better style then in game scenes. I think most games are moving away from pre-rendered cut scenes as they tend to break the illusion of your world a little. FFXII was alright as the cut scenes were noticeably better but in the same style .FFVII was terrible for breaking the illusion with frequent cutscenes in a style very different from the rest of the game.

      All of which completely misses the point. A cutscene is a cutscene, whether it's rendered in-engine or pre-rendered video. You've removed the user's interaction. The article compared MGS to Splinter Cell in that MGS had a big, long cutscene prior to the Ocelot fight (doesn't matter that it was rendered in-engine) while Splinter Cell had the player actually executing the steps that would've been shown as a cutscene in MGS. Half-Life is another game that does this very well, where you're in Gordon's perspective from the very start to the very end, and you always have control to move around. The HL1 tram intro is a perfect example. Any other game would've shown the tram from different camera angles and used the scene as a non-interactive movie. Valve put you right in Gordon's shoes and you can move around within the tram, looking out whichever windows you choose (or not).

    2. Re:Metal Gear by rkanodia · · Score: 1

      'Sit in this box and listen to the story', as others in the thread have pointed out, isn't really interactive. I found the tram ride to be interminably boring.

    3. Re:Metal Gear by p0tat03 · · Score: 1

      HL1 isn't the pinnacle of storytelling either. Yes, you retained control of Gordon the whole time, but there's a difference between full freedom and "oh hey, you're stuck in this room until this scripted scene has played through, then this door will magically be unlocked". I like Splinter Cell's storytelling because at least I'm actively doing *something*, as opposed to watching something happen through a bulletproof window.

    4. Re:Metal Gear by JonathanBoyd · · Score: 1

      I found HL2 to be incredibly frustrating in quite a few places, with regard to advancing the plot. Standing about in a room for 10 minutes waiting for NPCs to do things is not fun. Plugging cables into sockets isn't any fun either. Too often the few things you can do the plot-advancement sections are simplistic and boring and elicit no great urge to repeat them, making the thought of playing through the section again rather less than appealing.

      GoW annoyed me as well, occasionally putting cut-scenes between checkpoints and big battles. You could skip them, but you had to wait for them to start, then mash buttons for a few seconds before it responded.

  6. I don't mind cutscenes by hansamurai · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not a very meaty article, and I don't really like how the writer says "my game". Yes, it is "your" game, but it was written, directed, and developed by someone else. The Metal Gear Solid series is directed by Hideo Kojima, who has a very large, convoluted, and highly entertaining story to tell. Kojima chooses to tell that story through non-pre-rendered cutscenes and radio conversations. Whether you like it or not, that's how he chose to tell "his" story and you undoubtedly know what you're getting into when you start a Metal Gear Solid game. There are many, many games out there that don't have cutscenes or choose to tell their story in alternative methods (see Okami which begins with 30 minutes of text reading).

    I honestly don't see a problem with cutscenes as long as they're still telling a story and not just wasting time or trying to show off their FMVs. Some genres and games work great with cutscenes, others don't.

  7. my only peeve by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is when a game is designed poorly in that there's no way to save within seconds of hitting a difficult stage of the story. For example, Independence War was an incredible game but the missions were very long with lots of scripting, lots of difficult points, and no way to save between stages. There was this one simply awful mission where you had to fly escort for some ship setting up observation satellites. Fifteen minutes or so elapsed from mission start to the beginning of the battle. Horrifying. The original Wing Commander Privateer was like that. The final mission to destroy that alien superweapon involved five minutes of dialog before the fight began.

    Regardless of the frustration factor concerning gameplay, this also cuts down on the drama of the moment. If you're forced to watch the same moment fifty times before you get through that spot of the game, the emotional impact is reduced.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:my only peeve by Vexor · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Exactly why and decent and respectable game will allow you to skip the cutscenes regardless if you've seen it once, twice, or two thousand times (better yet even 0 times). Some games like World of Conflict have excellent cutscenes that really give the characters a lot more personality and in turn give you more emotional attachment (hate or love). Which in turn provides a better gameplay experience. The game doesn't feature a lot of them but they're so well done I find myself wishing there were more of them.

      This whole article is a bit pointless because it's dependant on player preference as well as graphics/story/voice acting (if any).

      --
      ~Vexed and loving it!
    2. Re:my only peeve by holmedog · · Score: 1

      I've noticed this problem as well. Some games actually have an ability to skip the cutscenes (breath of fire 5 comes to mind). However, most RPGs that I have played do not.

    3. Re:my only peeve by Bieeanda · · Score: 1

      Regardless of the frustration factor concerning gameplay, this also cuts down on the drama of the moment. If you're forced to watch the same moment fifty times before you get through that spot of the game, the emotional impact is reduced.
      That's my biggest peeve with City of Heroes/Villains' occasional cutscene. When I go into a mission, the last thing that I really need to see is a narrator's view of some situation deep in the map, with characters that I'm going to pound the crap out of going on about their nefarious schemes.

      It gets worse (or better) if you're teamed with people who've discovered that, while your powers and movement keys are disabled, your speech macro keys aren't. There's nothing quite like watching Lord Recluse pat himself on the back, while a speech bubble in the background scrolls "OW MY BALLS!"

    4. Re:my only peeve by jandrese · · Score: 1

      I've sometimes wondered if the macros weren't left enabled on purpose to let players MST3K the cutscenes if they wanted to. The fact that they are unskippable is bad, but being an MMO the only way to skip a cutscene is to have everybody vote and agree to skip the cutscene, which is more work and probably something the devs have well down on the priority queue. Fortunately cutscenes are pretty rare in the game so it's not a huge problem (it's a bigger problem in Villains than Heroes).

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    5. Re:my only peeve by tepples · · Score: 1

      Is when a game is designed poorly in that there's no way to save within seconds of hitting a difficult stage of the story. Solution: Have the game automatically save every fifteen seconds. Then you can come back to the game after a break.
    6. Re:my only peeve by Bieeanda · · Score: 1

      Beyond not being skippable, which is a good thing the first time through a mission at least, my only issue is that the transition is usually rather jarring. One second, you're all "HULK SMASH!" and the next your UI's missing and you're "Fine. Hulk wait for station identification."

  8. What I hate is not the cut scenes themselves... by physicsboy500 · · Score: 1, Informative

    ... but instead, cut scenes that end with you being hurled back into the action without warning. I've known several games where I sit back and enjoy watching the plot develop or thicken during a cut scene only to find myself reloading a save point after being hurled into a gunbattle with little warning and no time to think.

    It's even more annoying when you,re REQUIRED to watch the cut scene again and again in order to get back into that action.

    --
    The original generic sig.
  9. i've seen this before... by PJ1216 · · Score: 1

    where the player pretty much is in control, but only in a way that pigeon holes them into one set of actions, such as only being able to move in one direction and all other controls are disabled or even forcing all controls to do the same thing. the only real control the user normally has is the equivalent of controlling the speed of the game. some games give a little bit more freedom, but their overall destination is usually the same, such as every door in a room is closed except for one, etc. personally i find it a matter of opinion which one is better. i figure it really depends on if you play for story, the interaction, or gameplay. sometimes i find it almost rewarding to see a beautifully rendered cut-scene (that until now has been unparalleled compared to actual gameplay). some games have cutscenes that are too long for all but the most die-hard story-lovers (xenosaga comes to mind). its hard to say one method is better than another. some get annoyed by the cut-scenes where you have to participate but you can't do anything go in one direction because its just viewed as pointless and some just think, "why couldn't they make this part a cut-scene?"

    1. Re:i've seen this before... by Cactus · · Score: 1

      But see the end of Shadow of the Colossus for a great way of using this phenomenon for creating a strong emotional bind between the player and the character... I won't spoil it, if you've played it you'll know what I'm talking about -- it's pure genius.

      --

      Guikachu: Resource editor for PalmOS developers

    2. Re:i've seen this before... by PJ1216 · · Score: 1

      i'm not sure what it is, but it very well may be pretty good. i do have to admit, sometimes ending interactive cut-scenes are pretty cool. anyone who played Final Fantasy VII can attest to that.

  10. Re:f1r5t p0st by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bravo, sir, bravo. But next time don't sell yourself short. It's better to go for the gold and fail than go for the bronze and succeed.

  11. what's new? by Dance_Dance_Karnov · · Score: 2, Insightful

    cut scenes can be good, or they can be bad. as with everything else under the sun, it is how they are done which matters.

    1. Re:what's new? by My+name+is+Bucket · · Score: 1

      Wow, thanks for contributing.

  12. Damned if you do... by Picass0 · · Score: 1

    Just try putting out a major title without spectacular cutscenes. Gamers and critics will rip it on that basis. Cutscenes not only help sell games, they create for the gamer the feeling that a game is an event.

    Without cutscenes, a game feels like an unfinished demo.

    1. Re:Damned if you do... by Rayonic · · Score: 1

      The Half-Life series never has cutscenes in the traditional sense of the word. Everything is shown through the eyes of the player.

    2. Re:Damned if you do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, Half-Life 2 is just a little technology preview with no story whatsoever.

    3. Re:Damned if you do... by Smordnys+s'regrepsA · · Score: 0

      Without cutscenes, a game feels like an unfinished demo.



      Like Shadow of the Colossus, for instance - which still felt like a (high quality) demo.


      The only reason I still play it is for the pretty cut scenes.
      --
      Just -1, Troll talking to another.
    4. Re:Damned if you do... by _xeno_ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Half-Life 2 most certainly had cutscenes. Half-Life 2: Episode 2 even has a cutscene in the most traditional sense: there's a section after the Antlion Nest where you lose control of everything, including the camera, while the Gman talks to you.

      Back to Half-Life 2, though: it also had cutscenes. Early in the game it mostly consisted of waiting around for someone to finish talking and finally open the door until you can move on. Not a cutscene in the traditional "you lose control of the game" cutscene but a cutscene in the "you can't progress until Alyx stops talking and opens the door" cutscene. Later in the game there were cutscenes were you had a limited view - you could look around and zoom in on things, but you had no real control until the event completed.

      I actually find Half-Life 2's style to be more annoying than the more traditional "interrupt the action" cutscene for two reasons. The first, huge, giant, annoying reason is that cutscenes in Half-Life 2 can't be skipped. Ever. You have to wait for the event to play out before you can move on. This isn't a big deal the first run through the game, but if you ever find yourself replaying a section, waiting for Alyx to finish talking to her dad and just deactivate the damned force field can get annoying.

      The second thing is that it turns the game from playing into a game of "run to whoever's talking so you can hear them." In response to this, most people just turn on the captioning and sit and watch while the NPCs run around poking things. Ultimately Half-Life 2's cutscenes become these events that you can hop up and down during, but no more a "real" part of the game than any other cutscene.

      If I can't do anything useful during the cutscene, there's no real point to give me control, other than to allow me to miss something because I'm not looking in the right direction. They might as well use an actual cutscene: at least then you don't have to worry about missing something.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    5. Re:Damned if you do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What idiot modded this up?

      A cut scene is, BY DEFINITION, something that CUTS away from the game, removing player control.

      Half-Life 2 never does that. Ever. Even the section with the G-Man that you're talking about never cuts away, he just starts talking over the surroundings. You maintain control throughout that section. Try actually playing the game and not just watching over someone's shoulder.

      The only thing that comes close to a cutscene in any Half-Life game is the little trailer they showed at the end of the episodes.

      Other than that, there are not cut scenes. You are NEVER cut away from the action, and you never lose control of Freeman.

      Try actually playing the game before commenting on it.

    6. Re:Damned if you do... by Peeteriz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did you read what the parent said?

      Being able to jump around still has no sense, if you can't do anything worthwile - the battle is ended, there is no gameplay happening, you can't go to the next goal, you have to wait until some NPC finishes the monologue. YES, you haven't "lost control", but it still is effectively the same, only worse - since in other games, when you don't want to hear the monologue (say, because it's your third replay through the game), then you can usually skip back to action, but in HL2 your only choice is to wait. Or run around aimlessly while waiting. Or shoot in the air while waiting. Does that ability improve anything? You might as well go to kitchen and fetch some coffee while waiting.

    7. Re:Damned if you do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, the moderators and commentors on this site are officially retarded. Just so you know.

      By definition, a cut scene is something that CUTS away from the game, REMOVING player control.

      Do you cut away from the game in Half-Life 2? No. It's not a cut scene. By definition.

      Secondly, you've completely missed the point of the events in Half-Life 2: pacing. You can't just skip ahead of the events because if you could you'd completely ruin the pacing of the game. The entire point is to allow the player a brief rest before throwing them into the action again.

      If you removed that break, you'd ruin the game and you'd burn out the player.

      Half-Life 2 is one of the very few games to do story right, and if you can't see that, you're a moron.

  13. cutscenes... by Zarxrax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hate long cut scenes that you can't skip. If you wanna put them in your game, fine. If you wanna force me to watch them, thats usually ok too, as long as they are fairly short.

    It completely sucks though, when you pop in a new game and want to jump right into the action, but it makes you watch a freaking 15 minute movie before the game starts. And then as soon as it starts, you might be unfortunate enough to lose or have to stop playing before you reach a save point, and then you have to watch the crap ALL OVER AGAIN.

  14. My game? by IdeaMan · · Score: 1

    I bought it: My Game. If I wanted direction I'd be watching a movie. Non-skippable cut-scenes are of the devil.

    --
    They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
    1. Re:My game? by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      Well, you're arguing something else. Non-skippable cutscenese are annoying, especially to players on their second, third, or hundredth time through a game. I would agree that all cutscenes should be skippable, and developers are getting a lot better about this over the last few years. However, I don't think that cutscenes themselves are the problem.

    2. Re:My game? by Chr0me · · Score: 1

      I bought it: My copy of his story told in the form of a Game. Fixed that for you.

      If I wanted direction I'd be watching a movie. If it didn't have direction or semblance of structure it really wouldn't be a game. More to the point if it didn't have those, people would whine and moan about a lack of story, plot, or (god-forbid) direction.
    3. Re:My game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I wanted direction I'd be watching a movie.
      I totally agree! And I always take care to unplug my speakers before starting up games. If I wanted music, I'd put on a CD.

      Oh, and violent video games are of the devil -- if I want blood and guts I'll go out and murder someone.
    4. Re:My game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your analogies are bad dude

  15. I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by Scrameustache · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The cut scenes are good for a bit of relaxation and setting up the mindframe for your next objective. Now if the scenes don't drive a good story, and don't prepare you for what is going to happen next, yes, they do suck. But that isn't because it is a cutscene, it's because it's a shitty game. I don't mind cut scenes. I mind cut scenese that you can't skip.
    Especially the 10 minutes-long ones they put right before an ultra-hard boss battle that you'll have to go through 6 times in a row before you figure out how to beat it. Those make my urge to kill rise, and rise, and rise...
    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

    1. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by Tim+C · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That sort of thing often sees me simply stop playing the game if it gets in the way too often.

      Hell, I remember the train ride at the start of Half Life. Cool as hell the first time. Cool in a "oh yeah" kind of way the second time.

      By the third time I played through the game, years later, I thought "Oh, I'd forgotten about this..." and went to make a cup of coffee while I waited for it to play out.

      While we're on the subject of stuff you can't skip, adverts at the beginning of a game (eg for NVidia, the publisher, Intel, etc) that you can't skip fuck me off something chronic too. Attention game publishing infidels - I am fully aware of you, the dev house, ATi, NVidia, Intel, and all the other people paying you to piss me off. Please stop pissing me off, or I'll stop buying your games.

    2. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      While we're on the subject of stuff you can't skip, adverts at the beginning of a game (eg for NVidia, the publisher, Intel, etc) that you can't skip fuck me off something chronic too. Attention game publishing infidels - I am fully aware of you, the dev house, ATi, NVidia, Intel, and all the other people paying you to piss me off. Please stop pissing me off, or I'll stop buying your games. Ah! Those are unskipable by decree of the console manufacturer! You can't get publishing rights if they can be skipped.
      At least that's how it was back when I had access to technical requirement checklists. No reason to believe that's gonna change anytime soon.
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    3. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by SnapperHead · · Score: 1

      I agree, I won't purchase games that don't allow me to skip them. I watch them first them, but after I don't care anymore ... I just want to play the game. I just won't purchase a game with low replay value.

      --
      until (succeed) try { again(); }
    4. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by MoriaOrc · · Score: 1

      Then please, explain why Battlefield 2142 (a PC exclusive last time I checked) does this. Or did, until I removed the movies from my hard drive.

      The fact is, even if it was originally mandated by console manufacturers, a lot of PC game publishers are starting to do this, too. Hopefully it's not too late to get them to cut it out...

    5. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by Thirdsin · · Score: 1
      Well you dont see those

      adverts at the beginning of a game (eg for NVidia, the publisher, Intel, etc) until you buy the game, install and run it do you!! Gotcha!
      I agree they are annoying, but it could be worse. Like, wouldnt it be annoying if they put ads in game while you play?! oh wait...
      --
      No words of wisedom here.
    6. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by jdjbuffalo · · Score: 1

      Actually, usually it's pretty easy to skip those if it bothers you. In most games they have simple pointers to the name of the movie sequence to play those logo and intro screens.

      All you have to do is go to the movies folder and rename them. Boom, you're at the main game screen after a few seconds.

      --
      We have four boxes with which to defend our freedom: the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.
    7. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by Scrameustache · · Score: 1

      Then please, explain why Battlefield 2142 (a PC exclusive last time I checked) does this. Microsoft got into the console biz, and they're using the same tech requirements for their other platform?
      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    8. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by MoriaOrc · · Score: 1

      Microsoft doesn't license PC applications, though (like they do with consoles). They can't stop you from creating and selling a program that runs on Windows. The closest thing they have is the "Games for Windows" marketing campaign / "certification." BF2142 isn't certified in this way, and they don't mandate un-skippable promos anyway (at least not in the publicly disclosed requirements, if you feel like wearing your tinfoil).

      I think it's more likely that hardware companies like nVidia, ATi, and Intel pay for those promos in bigger PC games. My point above was that it's just an annoying thing from the console that's creeping into bigger PC games because theres some extra cash to be made.

    9. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      until you buy the game, install and run it do you!! Gotcha!

      Well, you tend to also get them in the demo for the game, which may put me off buying the game. I don't have the cash to buy every game I like the look of, so even the littlest thing can be a deal breaker. It's not my loss...

      Like, wouldnt it be annoying if they put ads in game while you play?!

      Actually no, unless they were unskippable cut scenes. Posters and billboards, etc, as long as they're appropriate to the setting of the game, really don't bother me. Chances are I'm going to be too busy concentrating on not getting killed to really notice them anyway.

      Now of course, it would be nice if the game was cheaper because of them, but that's not enough to annoy me by itself.

    10. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      I think that is mandated by EA, as you can't skip the EA advert in the beginning of the Crysis demo. All the other ads like Nvidia, Intel etc are skippable, so the EA one has been made unskippable on purpose.

    11. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the time when you sign with a publisher, license an engine, etc. there's a requirement written in to the contract that you show their logo for a minimum amount of time at the beginning of the game. These logos aren't paid ads, you either put them in the game or the game doesn't get made.

      A Game Developing Infidel

    12. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by Tim+C · · Score: 1

      Ah! Those are unskipable by decree of the console manufacturer!
      I built my own PC, and I certainly didn't decree that the games I buy for it have unskippable ads in them...
    13. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by tbannist · · Score: 1

      I don't think anyone will offer a serious argument against that. Cut scenes can be amazing, but if you have to watch them over and over again, they become much less amazing.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    14. Re:I don't ask for much, just let me skip it! by huckamania · · Score: 1

      But you obviously didn't build your own OS and your own game.

      What a bunch of cry babies. A lot of us linux types would love to have games with unskippable ads and cut scenes. I'd pirate a 10 year old Wing Commander port if I thought it might actually run in X windows.

  16. That's a "track ride" by Animats · · Score: 1

    where the player pretty much is in control, but only in a way that pigeon holes them into one set of actions, such as only being able to move in one direction and all other controls are disabled or even forcing all controls to do the same thing.

    In the industry this is called a "track ride". As in an amusement park.

  17. Cutscenes? Well, I like them... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The article derides the common mechanism of losing player control during a cutscene. I suppose for some people, losing any time of actual gameplay is annoying. I happen to be the complete opposite. I tend to find most gameplay repetitive, and welcome a break in the form of a story, especially if told in a way that's interesting and engaging. To me, a game is so much more entertaining when I actually care about the characters / what's going on.

    Naturally, not every game is right for long, drawn out cutscenes. In general, people play shooters for an adrenaline rush, so taking someone out of that 'zone' for too long is probably not the best idea. In an RPG, the story often is considered to be a crucial element of the game, and so probably requires more elaborate exposition. Personally, in many games, I consider each cutscene a small reward for my progress, and look forward to each new story or character development. Some people complain about too much story - I tend to revel in it. 120 minutes of cutscenes in a game? Brilliant, looking forward to it. But don't tell me there's anything wrong with how *I* want to enjoy a game.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  18. Well used cutscenes... by Deathdonut · · Score: 1

    Think of any Blizzard game, but specifically Diablo II. They use cutscenes to accent their games and provide complex plots that might otherwise be lost in their simple gameplay. While this might seem like a shortcut, I always come away amazed at the power behind their work.

    Final Fantasy is brought up by many on both sides of the arguement, but no one plugs the game into their system and is surprised by the amount of cinema they find. It caters to their customer base.

    Personally, I can't stand the gameplay by Square, but to this day I will maintain that Final Fantasy VII is the best game I've ever watched.

    1. Re:Well used cutscenes... by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I distinctly recall buying FFVIII a long long time ago without having a clue what it was about, and being completely blown away by a lot of the movies and their quality.

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
  19. Wimp! by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 2, Funny

    It sounds like you don't have what it takes to be a big-boss-battler. Oh sure, everyone thinks they're cut out to be the most awesome badass freedom fighter. But when the going gets tough, they wimp out. You live in a fantasy world where it's all about the glory of battle. Forgotten, is the drudgery and hard work. Feared (by wimps!), is the mind-numbing repetition that Evil overlords so often uses to discourage Good's weakest and least disciplined so-called "warriors."

    I can just imagine your whiny voice: "But I've seen this movie seven times!" Let me tell you something: when grampa played his video games against the Nazis, he sometimes had to watch the same cut-scene two dozen times! And that was just one of the scenes!

    Those make my urge to kill rise, and rise, and rise...

    Urge to kill, sure. What about your urge to endure? What about your urge to make a sacrifice, to Do Whatever It Takes to finally defeat the ultra-hard Boss at the end of the level?

    Do you think others haven't failed before you? The Boss keeps a trophy from each one. So many answer the call. So few are worthy.

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  20. It depends by metroid+composite · · Score: 1

    Some scenes work very well as gameplay. Some scenes do not. I don't like generalizing with broad strokes like that. Take an example everyone should be familiar with by now--Hot Coffee. You can make a sex minigame, but in this case it's mostly moving the stick back and forth (if I remember correctly) which is lame and annoying and induces tendenitis. The scene would have had more of an emotional impact as a cutscene. I'm not saying you couldn't make a deep, interesting sex game, I'm saying that not everybody who has a sex scene in their game should do so. And that's just one example. In pure talking scenes where characters are making eye contact, it makes sense to take control of the camera and focus in on the character's face. This isn't really compatible with control.

  21. Animal Crossing by tepples · · Score: 1

    Please, enlighten us to a game that isn't "basically on rails". Animal Crossing: Population Growing (for Nintendo GameCube) and Animal Crossing: Wild World (for Nintendo DS). The first hour of the game has the player working a temp job for Tom Nook, but after that, everything is open-ended.
    1. Re:Animal Crossing by Bloomy · · Score: 1

      The Gamecube game is just "Animal Crossing." "Population: Growing!" is no more part of the game's name than "Welcome to" is.

  22. Are you in a hurry? by tepples · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Of course, then you run into the trouble of having a first time player accidentally trip the "interrupt" portion of the NPC behavior when he really wanted to hear the whole speech) If the player approaches the NPC too closely, have the NPC say "Are you in a hurry?" Then the NPC starts talking again unless the player presses the use key toward the door.
    1. Re:Are you in a hurry? by Bee1zebub · · Score: 1

      Or, since most shooters have an "punch" control, for NPCs whom you would expect to be uncooperative (enemy civilians, for example), it could allow you to knock them out with a single hit and keep going.

  23. Alt text by tepples · · Score: 1

    All you have to do is go to the movies folder and rename them. Boom, you're at the main game screen after a few seconds. Unless the game just puts up the movie's alternate text for five seconds for each unreadable movie.
  24. (Also probably full of Bioshock spoilers) by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 1



    I think that's a lot of the genius of Bioshock, really -- it takes a lot of the conventions that you just sort of accept as part of playing a video game and makes them integral to the story. Or, to look at it another way, it takes things you'll ignore or not think very hard about because it's a video game and you're used to them (e.g., the 'coincidence' of the plane crash, the vita chambers, the lack of choice in what to do next, the 'why can this lone stranger do what better trained/prepared assassins can't' factor, and so on) and makes them reasons you should have known something was going on.

  25. Half Life 2 took steps in the right direction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cut scenes play around you as you still walk around, choosing to view whatever you want to view. At times, you can basically walk right by them entirely if you are in a rush, but if you want to stop and savor the details, you can.

  26. Skip cutscenes. by MaWeiTao · · Score: 1

    Years ago I used to enjoy cut scenes. I always looked forward to them and felt cheated when a game which offered some sort of story didn't have them. However, in the intervening years my expectations have changed. I now find them a source of frustration when they cant be skipped and instead become an impediment to me playing the game.

    This seems to be especially problematic with Japanese games where the developer is intent on forcing the player to sit through the story. It's particularly frustrating when cutscenes are comprised of text dialog. One remarkably aggravating example was Okami. I recall seeing this game for the first game and become intensely aggravated at the opening cutscenes. A introduction that could have been told in 3 minutes was dragged out to perhaps 30. I was ready to shut off the console because the intro was even done. The annoying voices didn't help either. Although, I think it was otherwise a good game, but I doubt I'd have the patience to play it a big reason being those cutscenes.

    "I get it! You've crafted this wonderful, unique game world. Stop beating me over the head with it!"

    I think one of the few genres well suited to extensive story telling is the adventure. The story was an integral part of the gameplay. There was no need to interrupt the player because it was the player himself progressing the story. While I enjoy RPGs and have played some with great stories I don't think those are quite as conducive to storytelling because these games tend to be broken up into very distinct components and gameplay generally consists of very repetitive activities broken up by storytelling elements.

    I think this has become more of an issue in recent years because of the more realistic nature of current games. When a player is interacting with a somewhat realistic game world certain expectations are formed. When an NPC blocks a doorway for the sake of telling a story or a player's actions are restricted in some way it feels unnatural and becomes a source of frustration.

    Without a doubt it's possibly to tell a story effectively in any game, but it's very difficult. More often than not developers don't do it well. But the absolute worst thing a developer can do is to force the player to sit through cutscenes with no option at all to skip it.

  27. Ever play a Half-Life game? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    Half-Life 1, 2, and Episode 1 had probably five cutscenes between them.

    Wait, let me count...

    One in Half-Life, two in Half-Life 2, maybe two in Episode 1.

    Oh, sure, there are times you could classify as a cutscene, but you absolutely do have control of your player. It's still "on rails" in that it's a linear game, and that sometimes you really do have to wait a bit for the plot to develop, but you can always go play with the miniature teleporter while they're talking, or something similar.

    Haven't played Episode 2, yet, but only two in Portal.

    And I wouldn't really count the "cutscenes" as such, I'm only saying they technically are, as the player has absolutely zero control. But I'd argue that yes, you do have full control over Gordon Freeman (or <<Subject Name Here>> in Portal), they just don't have full control of themselves at the time. (If I was being glomped by Alyx Vance, I'm not sure I could move much, either.)

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  28. Re:f1r5t p0st by PFI_Optix · · Score: 1

    Excuse me, your f1r5t p0st is in my article discussion.

    --
    120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
  29. Story driven games, or not? by Targon · · Score: 1

    There is a huge split in the gaming community over this sort of issue. Many action gamers seem to think that storytelling in a game is a nuisance because their focus is in running around shooting at things. On the flip side, there are also gamers who WANT more story in their game, where they play through a story to see how the story plays out, with the gameplay elements being important, but secondary.

    This split is often seen in the action RPG games that are out there, where even the first time some people play the games, they click through the interactions, skipping story and character development while others prefer to read and listen to the character interactions. I agree that there are times when the interactions/cut scenes are a bit too long, but at the same time, there will ALWAYS be a split between the people who want/prefer a storyline driven game, and those who don't care and just want to play.

    The better developers understand this, so in some cases you see ways to skip past much of the NPC dialog. Neverwinter Nights 2 for example had some dialog options like, "Just skip it and I'll check the info in my journal".

    This split in what people like is also seen in regular movies, where some people are put to sleep by character development and just want to see the big special effects, while others enjoy the whole movie, including the character development between characters. One is not necessarily better than the other as it is a subjective thing. There does seem to be a relationship between the age of the person and their preference, but I don't have the resources to do the study.

    1. Re:Story driven games, or not? by grumbel · · Score: 1

      I don't think it is just a taste issue, but more an issue of games not being 'whole'. Stories are best told when gameplay, dialog and cutscenes work hand in hand, but in many games cutscenes and gameplay are very disconnected, sometimes so much that you could skip one or the other completly without even noticing it. Often your characters follow completly different rules in cutscenes then they follow in game (in cutscene one shot kills, in gameplay you need 20 and even then a health pack will revive everybody).

      My biggest issue with gaming these days is that there are only few games that are 'whole'. In most cases it feels like patchwork, you know that the gameplay isn't the way it is because its the best to tell the story, but because last years blockbuster did it the same. Far to often you know just to well what to expect, since you already played it last year, this years release just differs in details.

  30. Bioshock did it well by llevity · · Score: 1

    I really liked the way Bioshock did it. Very few cutscenes. However, a ton of story and backstory information was present. Most of it was carried out on your radio as you did relevent stuff in the game. There were also many audio diaries scattered through the levels. These gave backstory and filled in a lot of gaps about what you knew.

    The amusing thing was, I started off picking them up, and just half listening to them as I went on with the game. But the deeper I got, the more interesting the story because, and I found myself stopping and focusing just on what was being said. It probably would have annoyed me if it forced me to stop and listen, but given the choice, with an interesting enough story line, I did so of my own accord.

  31. Re:Cutscenes? Well, I like them... by mcvos · · Score: 1

    I tend to find most gameplay repetitive, and welcome a break in the form of a story,

    And there you've got the real problem: for many games, the "story" is a break from the actual game. I don't want story interspersed with my game, I want the story to be an integral part of the game. Cutscenes are not the way to do that. Cutscenes are a lame shortcut for developers who have no idea how to make the story part of the game itself.

    There are many games that tell excellent stories without resorting to cutscenes, and I'll always prefer those over the games that resort to lame shortcuts.

    In an RPG, the story often is considered to be a crucial element of the game, and so probably requires more elaborate exposition. Personally, in many games, I consider each cutscene a small reward for my progress, and look forward to each new story or character development.

    CRPGs are exactly the kind of game that shouldn't have to make do with cutscenes. In CRPGs, the story is vital to the game. It's what the game is about. If the game doesn't support the ability to tell a story, then your game is wrong. Clear an simple. Cutscenes aren't a reward for progress, progress should be its own reward. The story should be told by that progress itself.

    Some people complain about too much story - I tend to revel in it. 120 minutes of cutscenes in a game? Brilliant, looking forward to it. But don't tell me there's anything wrong with how *I* want to enjoy a game.

    I also revel it story, but I hate cutscenes. I don't want to watch a movie interspersed with bits of game, I want to play a game that's all about story, where the story is part of the game. A cutscene for the intro at the start of the game is okay, since it allows you to learn a bit more about the background of the setting before you start to play. Maybe the occasional cutscene for when you go to a completely different location by helicopter or something, but monologues (dialogues, preferably) should be supported by the game engine itself. Planescape:Torment, possibly the most story-driven CRPG ever, tells it story entirely through the game itself. Why can't other games do that?