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Consumers Starting To Realize Gadgets Can Be Fixed

An anonymous reader writes "Consumers seem to be paying more attention to the possibility of fixing gadgets instead of sending them to the landfill. It may be because 10gb in your iPod is more than enough for any normal person, it may be a deep, abiding love for the environment or it may just be the price. A New York Times article explores how new sites like FixYa and old standbys like Macintouch can aid the average user in restoring their 'slightly used' gear. Practically every gadget has their own website devoted to helping owners help each other deal with problems that arise. I personally like AVS Forum for my living room needs. From the article: 'Most other gadgets come with batteries that are easy to replace without custom tools. Replacement batteries for cellphones are often marked up by the devices' manufacturers, while third-party replacements are often available for 60 percent to 80 percent less. Companies offering replacement batteries for iPods often offer better batteries with higher capacities and longer lifetimes. Ipodjuice.com, for instance, sells a 1,200-milliamp-hour battery that will replace the 600-milliamp-hour battery that shipped with a fourth-generation iPod -- an improvement that lets the Web site claim that the repaired iPod will "last 100 percent longer."'"

57 of 270 comments (clear)

  1. Go PS2! by Joe+the+Lesser · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm fixed my PS2 several times when it's stopped reading discs thanks to online guides.

    Bought the thing used in 2003 for under 100 bucks and she's still holding together thanks to the great fix-it communities. (And I'm generally horrible at hardware)

    --
    "I only speak the truth"
    Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
    1. Re:Go PS2! by Mursk · · Score: 5, Funny
      Yep, the PS2 is a good example of something that is not too hard to open up and troubleshoot a little. Also comes in handy when/if you want to modify it to use Swap Magic (which I've done both with an older fat PS2 and a newer slim one) or, I suppose, install a mod chip (haven't done this since Swap Magic seemed easier/cheaper/less risky).

      One of the things keeping me from buying a PS3 is the fact that I feel like I'll be less comfortable taking a look under the hood. I'm a ME, not and EE, and I've learned that it's REALLY important to limit the dollar-amount of damage I can do when it comes to the more complex gadgets. I can never figure out how to get the magic smoke back in those little chips...

      --
      "This thing does science so hard, you say, 'I've never seen that much science.'" -Sam
  2. Welcome back! by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fixing stuff is nothing new. Until the 80s or so fixng everything was common. A lot of the problems are due to one of two things: people want an upgrade anyway, and something breaking is a good excuse; massive integration makes it harder, if not impossible, to service some devices.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
    1. Re:Welcome back! by Gonarat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Until the late '70s / early '80s, things were designed to be fixable. I remember going to the store with my Dad to get a cord for my Mom's clothes iron. The iron was designed so it could be opened up so that the old cord could be replaced. The power cord would fray from use over time and need to be replaced, but the iron itself was designed to last for years.

      Now the iron is designed to be disposable. There is no way to replace the cord even if the iron would last longer than the cord. Forget the waste -- it is more profitable to make you buy a whole new (cheap) iron instead of a cord. The extra waste in the landfill is not the corporation's problem.

      Rinse and repeat for most consumer products today -- most products are designed with to be replaces after x amount of time instead of lasting for years so that people with be forced to throw away the old and buy the new. I hope this will change, but I am not holding my breath.

      --
      Beware of Sleestak
    2. Re:Welcome back! by Bluesman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While I'm not positive this is the case, I'd bet it's more profitable to sell you a replacement cord that costs 10 cents to produce and sells for a couple of bucks than it is to sell you a $10 iron.

      But then you open yourself up to a barrage of lawsuits when people try to replace the cord on their iron without unplugging it first, replace it incorrectly, etc. Not to mention that it's not fashionable to be competent enough to be able to fix things, and a new iron is so cheap that it's hardly worth anyone's time to do so to save the six bucks, so people able to fix these are less inclined to do so, so that replacement cord taking up space on the shelves costs stores money.

      The good news is that you can find discarded stuff that you can easily fix without too much trouble if you're so inclined, and that landfill space is not in short supply. In the event that landfill space should become in short supply, you'd see disposal costs rise through the roof, and everyone would fix everything again.

      How cool is that?

      --
      If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
    3. Re:Welcome back! by MBCook · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yep. I opened up an old transistor radio a year or two ago. It came from Radio Shack in the late 70s or early 80s. I was floored to see, stuck to the inside of the back case, a full schematic of how the radio worked. That kind of thing (even if it only showed the ICs and not their functions) is basically unthinkable today.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    4. Re:Welcome back! by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Re-solder the connector on, put a bit of epoxy around it, and it'll hold much better. The board will come apart before the connector does :)

    5. Re:Welcome back! by GwaihirBW · · Score: 4, Interesting

      While planned obsolescence is more widespread than ever these days, it's nothing new - Companies have always realized the benefits of forcing buyers to come back on as frequent a schedule as the market will bear, and have pushed consumers down that road whenever possible.

      My father has a few pairs of socks that he got 40-ish years ago that he wears regularly - they're comfortable and haven't stretched or worn out at all . . . for fairly obvious reasons, the company that made them no longer exists. Or, for a more entertaining example, look to the 1952 movie The Man in the White Suit - guy invents perfect, invincible fabric and attempts to sell idea to clothing companies. Clothing companies see the writing on the wall and turn to desperate measures . . . so even way back in 1952 the concept of planned obsolescence was thought about enough to generate a movie.

      As technology moves forward, more and more items become commodities or at least lend themselves to planned obsolescence. Nowadays, modern manufacturing processes have brought the prices of most electronic gadgets down to the point where consumers will stand for being forced to replace regularly, and it's often more profitable to sell an upgrade cycle than it is to sell service/repair contracts (plus the sheeple really like being told how many wonderful new features they're getting when they replace broken version 12 with ever-so-(temporarily)-shiny version 13). Companies only have an incentive to serve their customers well enough to keep them coming back to spend - anything more is wasted and too much quality might shut off that revenue stream entirely!

      Also, I have to make the obligatory and oft-harped-upon point that open source software is one of the very few examples of a product that is immune to this unfortunate market force - software companies are strongly incented to steer their customers toward application designs that will require regular upgrades/patches, because a stable and perfected application can only be sold once. Some compnaies have figured out that if they do enough interface changing with every major upgrade, they can even tack on a new "training" revenue stream, a side benefit to the quest for lock-in . . . [/rant]

      --
      "There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order." - Ed Howdershelt
    6. Re:Welcome back! by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If it costs $50 more to make a device that will last forever, most companies are going to opt for the cheaper design, and plan around a specific lifetime for the device. Look at the iPod if you want an example.

      Your logic is flawed.

    7. Re:Welcome back! by flyingfsck · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but devices also did not last long. TV sets failed after 6 months to 2 years. Even cars were rusted out after only 3 years. A VW Beetle exhaust pipe lasted 9 months - not even a whole year! So if you wanted anything to last more than a year or two, then you had to repair it regularly. Since manufacturers figured out how to make consumer devices that last 10 years or more, repair became optional.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    8. Re:Welcome back! by akadruid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Disposal costs don't work like that. You cannot make it undesirable to send things to landfills by increasing the cost. We've got this problem already in the UK - landfill is becoming increasingly non viable as political pressure over locations rises. UK gov. have recently made it possible for local authorities to pilot so called 'pay as you throw' systems to penalize heavy users of landfill waste. Since the removal of domestic waste is a public good, you would be penalising their neighbours too. This makes me think about how householders will react to this.

      1. Recycle more - a bit maybe, but a big change seems unlikely. Recycling rates are already very high for the recyclable portion of the waste.
      2. Buy less - again, unlikely. Biggest outputters of waste are those with low incomes anyway, especially larger families. Discarded non-essentials aren't a big % of waste anyhow, most waste is food and non-recyclable packaging, or things like disposable nappies (which already slightly more expensive than reusable ones).
      3. Pay the extra tax - see 2.
      4. Dump the waste somewhere else - flytipping, contaminating recyclable waste, into neighbours bins (with or without their knowledge) or delivering it to local authority tip sites - all of which are more damaging than kerbside collection, and don't reduce landfill waste.

      --
      "Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything." (attrib. Joseph Stalin)
  3. There are a lot of greenies out there by blueZ3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    but let's face it, this is almost certainly the result of economics, rather than some magical new sensitivity for the environment.

    Call me when people start putting effort into recycling or repairing their $25 gizmo, instead of when they decide to shell out $100 for the repair of a $300 item.

    The title of this article should probably be something like "expensive gadgets not such a commodity item for middle class Americans, after all"

    --
    Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
    1. Re:There are a lot of greenies out there by thynk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I put effort into repairing a lot of items, regardless of the cost. What true geek ever throws something away?

      I usually try to fix it... either fix it or get frustrated and buy the upgrade I really wanted anyway and put the broken one in a box for "parts". Never know when a scrap of wire or micro switch might come in handy down the road. Or I let the kids play with it, never hurts to expand their minds - and I'd rather have them taking apart the broken PS2 controller than the working Xbox 360 :-)

      --

      Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
  4. Extension of upgrading computers? by R2.0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think this may have more to do with the abilityto upgrade computers. Due to the original IBM PC architecture, it was easy to make your computer run better - some simple screws, plug-in cards, simple electrical connections. Lots of folks who would never dream of opening up their VCR - still flashing 12:00 - have upgraded memory or a hard drive.

    Now those same folks who have cut their teeth on PC's look at broken electronic gadgetry and think:
    1) How hard can it be?
    2) If I screw it up, no big deal - it's a loss now as it is.

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
  5. it's all i got by User+956 · · Score: 5, Funny

    From the article: 'Most other gadgets come with batteries that are easy to replace without custom tools.

    When i'm working on a piece of electronic equipment and I see "custom tools", my brain responds with "hammer". But then, that might be part of the problem in the first place.

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
  6. My Experience by immcintosh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ah, the perfect thread to brag about an accomplishment about which I am (perhaps even unduly so) proud. You see, I have a Netgear combination ADSL modem/router, and after about 3 years of use it started to sporadically malfunction. The connection would drop, sometimes not coming back until the next day, only to quickly drop again. After a painful call to SBC (now ATT) tech support, I was able to determine that it was not a line problem. Being that the router wasn't exactly cheap (150ish?), I hated to buy a new one, so I went searching online...

    Interestingly, I eventually discovered that I had been the unwitting casualty of industrial espionage! Apparently, a capacitor company, wanting to do things on the cheap, had tried to steal the recipe that a rival company used to manufacture capacitors. Apparently, however, the rival company got wind of this and planted a FAKE recipe for the ne'erdowell to find. The eventual fallout was that a little while down the road, this company's faulty capacitors started malfunction en masse.

    Long story short, my modem used one such capacitor, and apparently a great many users were reporting similar problems. So, out come my trusty soldering iron and jeweler's screwdrivers, and the modem is quickly disassembled. Lo and behold, there is indeed a bulging capacitor. A quick trip to radio shack and a little painstaking soldering work later, I had a DSL modem working good as new. That was about two years ago, and I'm still using the same modem.

    I'm still pretty damn proud of myself :P (I could be described, when it comes to electronics, as at BEST a very inexperienced hobbyist)

    1. Re:My Experience by Anonymous+Crowhead · · Score: 2, Informative

      Fixing a bad cap is worth a merit badge on your nerd uniform.

    2. Re:My Experience by toadlife · · Score: 2, Informative

      Those damn budging capacitors screwed over millions of products, from modems like yours to a number of different motherboards shipped in PCs by large vendors like Gateway and Dell.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    3. Re:My Experience by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 4, Informative

      badcaps.net I've repaired about 20 motherboards with blown capacitors since reading that site. I cannot tell you how much money and time that has saved me. It's a hell of a lot easier (for me at least) to spend 20 minutes replacing 5 to 15 bad caps, then to put a new board in and trying to get windows working and praying that you don't have to reactivate the product over the phone.

      http://www.badcaps.net/forum/ has a lot of information.

    4. Re:My Experience by immcintosh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think maybe you have been going to a bad Radio Shack? That store, more so than almost any other large chain I can think of, REALLY lives or dies on the employees. The one I went to, for example, had a guy who knew exactly what I was talking about and led me straight to the capacitor in question, then recommended a certain solder for the job. *shrug*

    5. Re:My Experience by bladesjester · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yours must be one of the rare ones like the one near where I am.

      Most of them don't seem to carry caps, breadboard, and the like anymore. I was amazed when I walked into this one. They have an entire aisle of it. In fact, it was the only place around here that I could find one of the Cold Heat soldering irons around here (which, for light work, are actually kind of nice).

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
  7. To a man who only has a hammer... by Nerdposeur · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...everything looks like a nail.

    1. Re:To a man who only has a hammer... by Tackhead · · Score: 2, Funny
      > ...everything looks like a nail.

      ...or a cheap alternative to therapy!

  8. iFixit.com by SLOviper · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.ifixit.com/ is a great resource for everthing Mac mobile. (iPods and lappys)

    --
    In theory, theory always works in practice. In practice, theory rarely works. <><
  9. Batteries by badasscat · · Score: 3, Funny

    Replacement batteries for cellphones are often marked up by the devices' manufacturers, while third-party replacements are often available for 60 percent to 80 percent less.

    Ummmm... You sure you want to recommend that?

  10. La la la la LALALALALA by Bluesman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    LA LA LA *fingers in the ears*

    Oh no this just isn't happening! Hardware is so cheap and replaceable now that we're all going to be paying for software that comes with its own FREE hardware in just a few years! Welcome to our brave new electronic commodity frontier!

    --
    If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
  11. Re:Good point by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Replace that single board, keeping the rest of the parts. If you have 9 failed ipods, 3 with bad batteries, 3 with dead hard drives, 3 with bad mainboards and can identify which parts work on each, you can repair 6 of the units. Only the dead mainboards are a real problem.

    --
    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  12. Mostly thanks to the Internet by kalpol · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Internet caused a real breakthrough in fixing stuff for me - before, I'd have to find someone who knew more than I did, or hit the library, or just figure it out myself. Now I can find parts for my old Mercedes and my Fiat, repair the lawn mower, put a new power supply in my old LaserJet, recap my Marantz amplifier, refoam my Bose woofers - repair all nice old stuff that probably would have been tossed out without the ability to easily search for repair hints and sources of parts.

    --
    12:50 - press return.
  13. 10gb iPod? by faloi · · Score: 2, Funny

    I didn't know we were measuring capacity based on the weight of the bits these days. Are more poignant songs heavier?

    --
    "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
  14. Basic philosophy there: by Moryath · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have seen so many otherwise workable items about to be thrown out because of a minor, easily fixed issue (sometimes even just needing some superglue!)

    I have a collection of about 6 DVD players, a few audio tape players, VCR's, etc that people have handed me when I said "it's probably an easy fix"; their response was "if you can get it working it's yours." Invariably the repair was simple, in the case of the DVD players just needed a lens cleaning (not one of those crappy sale unit lens cleaners, a real opening up and swabbing with some rubbing alcohol).

    Basic principles of home electronics:
    NOTHING is all that complicated. If it were that complicated, it would cost $20,000 or more. Even a DVD recorder sold 5 years ago for $1000 is still frighteningly similar to the one you got for $30 last week, and probably even easier to trace loose connections and items since it's not been subjected to 5 years of component consolidation and micro-sizing.

    VCR repair, DVD repair, most anything else is just a matter of having a few basic tools. Well, that and using the grey matter between your ears. You can tell if there's a broken belt, you can visually tell if a capacitor has blown, you can smell if something has shorted out and you can usually see the scorch. Sometimes it's repairable, sometimes you just learn more about the standard innards (and if you think Company #1's VCR or DVD player is that much different from Company #2's or Company #3's, you're delusional).

    You wouldn't believe how many times a "dead" PS2 can be revived just by cleaning the firking lens.

    And if you kill it... parent point #2 is dead-on correct. You have nothing to lose opening up something that's long out of warranty and broken; the worst that can happen is that it's still broken when you're done with it.

    Of course, when I've mentioned this to some of the people out there, they're terrified of the "warning, voltage" and "warranty void if removed" stickers plastered all over their stuff. We really need to teach people that they can do this stuff safely and without a lot of worry; I'm starting to be convinced most of these "warnings" are just there to scare people into not getting perfectly serviceable products repaired.

    1. Re:Basic philosophy there: by ACDChook · · Score: 5, Funny

      Reminds me of the time I got a free laser printer because a local business was closing. A friend of mine had worked there, and they gave it to him and said it didn't work. I found it sitting in the corner at his place a year or so later, and he hadn't touched it, so gave it to me to have a look at. When I plugged it in and turned it on, a red light came on.

      I put some paper in it, the red light went off, and it's worked fine ever since. :D

    2. Re:Basic philosophy there: by greed · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Heh. Reminds me of the second hard disk I ever owned; it was a 33 MB RLL drive with "NFG" in big black marker scrawled over the top case.

      It was $20 at the surplus store, and I thought, cool, motors and magnets and I can do something silly with the platters, that's easily $20 of fun.

      On a lark, I plugged it in to my Amiga 2000... and it spun up. So I crimped together the right signal cables for a second ST-506 drive and hooked up the lines. And the controller was able to get the heads to track zero... Hmmm.

      I _had_ to try and format it now, right? Well, I only had an MFM controller, so that's 20 megabytes, but that plus my 40 megger would be a big help.... It low-level formatted fine. Partitioned fine. Took a filesystem format fine....

      Not trusting it, I ran a disk analyzer on it for 3 days. No errors. Not even the ones in the bad block sticker on the cover.

      Maybe the drive wouldn't work on an RLL controller, or someone used the wrong RLL settings for the drive; but I used that "NFG" drive for 10 years as my main document storage disk. (I also did regular backups, but I do that even if the drive doesn't say NFG.)

      Not as much fun was when my mom's steam iron "broke", and my grandfather bought her a nice new one with auto-shutoff for Christmas one year. I took the old one, poured white vinegar in it and let it stand for 30 minutes. Been working fine ever since. I needed an iron for University, but not often enough to want to spend money on one. And my mom really was happier with the lighter model, and much less nervous about burning the house down with the automatic shutoff.

  15. Yawn... by rickb928 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ..seriously, I've been fixing my stuff and others' since I was 9. Cash registers, toasters, guns, cameras, sheesh, I dunno, it's probably the Yankee in me. I used to save stuff. never know when a power cord would come in handy. Or the strain relief from one. I bought a finished Heathkit color TV and solved the various adjustment and bad solder problems. Cheap TV. And my first three CD players, last two stereo systems, and my Minidisc recorder.

    My first 'real' job outside the Air Force was fixing office calculators, dictating machines, typewriters, mimeographs/duplicators, sorters, folders, you name it. I moved up the food chain a bit to IBM stuff like Selectrics, Mag Cards, Electronics, OS/6, and DisplayWriters. And those damned 6:5 things. I finally bought a turbo XT and learned to fix computers.

    Now I amaze my wife with little and big things I fix. All except for the digital camera she sat on. But I know which of the 3 little plastic fingers she broke, and if I had them, I could indeed fix it. lately, I've been on a jag fixing anything but iPods, especially those Toshiba Gigabeats. Damn, those are easy to fix.

    Yeah, I hate throwing something out just cause it's got a weak battery, or laptops with broken screen hinges, stuff that fails intermittantly just cause of a connection. With a decent selection of soldering irons, good epoxy, small screwdrivers, and patience, you can fix a lot. Sometimes, the hammer works best...

    We do need to be less of a throwaway society. But the way consumer electronics are made today, the economics of repair parts is terrible. I dread buying an HDTV, knowing that I probably won't be able to fix much in it. And it won't last 20+years, like that old Heathkit. But hey, the picture makes it all worthwhile, right?

    *sniff*

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  16. Taking things apart for fun by hack++slash · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ever since I was a kid I had a fascination with taking things apart just to see what's inside and made them tick (no, not animals!), but I learnt something that most people can't or don't think they can do - put it back together without breaking it or even end up fixing it.

    The upside is you can make your gadgets last longer through fixing them or enhance them beyond their original design, for example one of my 2 iRiver H140's is made up from 3 broken units I bought off eBay, it works perfectly and it cost me nothing (but the time to fix it) because I sold most of the leftover bits and another complete working unit back on eBay for what the broken units cost overall.

    There is a downside to being able to fix your own gadgets, all your bloody friends at some time or another ask "my xyz stopped working, can you fix it?"

    --
    To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
    1. Re:Taking things apart for fun by discord5 · · Score: 3, Funny

      just to see what's inside and made them tick (no, not animals!)

      Just so we're absolutely clear about this, animals in general don't tick. If they do you might want to go looking for your wristwatch. ;)

  17. Re:Ink Jet Cartridges by veganboyjosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I work in print production. We have some inkjets and some laser machines. All the printers we use (and I'm guessing lots of others) have at least one part which has a chip that's designed to stop working before the life of the part is used up. It drives us nuts here. My boss has taken to pulling the old chips off old broken parts, for use in other parts with "used up" chips.

    We've since been switching our inkjet machines to use ink resevoirs, which are these big tanks that sit outside the body of the printer, and can be refilled while the thing is printing. They're clear plastic (lexan, maybe?) so you can see how low they are.

    Planned obsolescence should be punishable by some sort of recursive punishment.

  18. Availability of parts by Rorschach1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yeah, they can be repaired... it's just not always practical.

    My girlfriend's expensive iPod speaker system got its volume stuck at full, and it fell to me to repair it. Actually, her remedy was just to pile pillows on top of it, but we don't really have enough pillows to get a decent volume control range, and it took up a lot of space.

    I didn't have too much trouble tracking down the faulty volume control IC, but it helped that I have a workshop with several thousand dollars of test and rework equipment. Honestly, it could have been done with a cheap voltmeter or logic probe and some patience.

    I knew exactly what chip to replace, but there are NO distributors of that part in North America. Minimum order from Taiwan was something like 10,000. No equivalents available, either. I managed to talk the company into sending a couple of engineering samples - 'free' parts that only cost me $70 in FedEx charges. (Ah, the things us geeks do for love.) Installing the part was again not a big deal, but only because I have a hot air rework station designed for the task.

    Component availability problems can be overcome, but the bigger problem is lack of information. Without at least a schematic it can be very tough to troubleshoot modern electronics, and good luck getting that sort of information out of a manufacturer.

    Still, I suppose it's worth pointing out that 3 of the last 4 cellphones used in my house have had their lives extended significantly through repair. 90% of the time the problems there are related to mechanical and interconnect parts - charging connectors, flex cables in hinges, speaker contacts, and so on, and it doesn't take a genius to spot and fix those problems. The last phone I fixed turned out to have a failed connection where some foam had worn out. The fix was to jam a piece of paper in its place.

    Forty years ago my dad had a TV and general electronics repair shop, and customers could bring in any random gadget and reasonably expect that there was a good chance he'd be able to fix it, or at least tell them what was wrong with it and why it wasn't worth fixing. Those days are long gone, at least in the realm of consumer electronics. Yeah, you can specialize in XBox repairs, or iPods, or some limited scope like that, and folks like me will make their best attempt at fixing devices for their friends and family, but doing general repairs commercially? Your success rate is going to be too low, and the chances of breaking things further is too great. And the situation is only going to get worse as integration increases. Just wait until all of our electronics are made in 3D fabricators, with each IC die and passive component buried in a solid block of material and no possibility of access to ANY discrete part.

    1. Re:Availability of parts by geekoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Couple of thing:
      When I repair something, and I need a part I go to the company that made it. Usually I get the part and some schematice for free or a nominal charge. Granted, the last time was 4 years ago.

      TV's.
      TV's are EASY to repair and get parts for. Expensive to pay for someone to fix for you. Nobody is going to pay 300 dollars to get a 300 dollar TV fixed.
      I used to work in TV repaird about 23 years ago, or so. People would come in, drop of the TV. we would determine the problem, tell the customer the price. The customer would ALWAYS ok it, even AFTER we told them they could buy a new one for the same price with more features. They almost never showed up or answered the phone when it was time to pay.
      Then we started getting money up front, and people would spaz. Eventual they just closed there doors and focused on repairing microwave dishes.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  19. Things are slightly more complicated... by Dzimas · · Score: 4, Interesting

    TFA should be entitled, "Today's younger generations are discovering that some stuff can be fixed... if it's the right stuff and I don't have a six figure income." My father was more than happy to pull out a screwdriver and tinker with the record player, and would sometimes spend days tinkering with gadgets to get them to function correctly. Of course, most of the stuff that he used was electromechanical, with components large enough to replace by hand.

    Dad often took the time to point out how things worked, because he honestly believed his understanding of "how things work" would be of immense value to me. Unfortunately, it wasn't. I was a child of the 8-bit microprocessor revolution; my childhood environment was filled with mysterious digital circuitry, and no manner of traditional tinkering could repair a blown Commodore 6581 SID chip. Things have gotten worse with time: The introduction of surface-mount components and multi-function chipsets means that there are genuinely few "user serviceable" parts inside consumer goods.

    Millions of PDAs, handheld computers, digital cameras, phones and mp3 players flooded the marketplace in the 1990s. It didn't make sense to try to fix them if they broke, because something 10x better was always just around the corner. Fast forward a decade, and the rate of development has slowed. My 3-year-old iPod is like an old friend, and it's technically "good enough" for everyday use. If the battery or screen needs replacing, it's worth it (from an economic and time standpoint).

    Unfortunately, lots of modern tech gear isn't designed to be fixed. It's designed to be cheap to produce. That translates to mp3 players with shoddy connectors that pop of the circuit board, or DVD playback mechanisms with poor quality plastic drive gears. Thist stuff can be fixed, but it's usually more trouble than its worth. As far as electronic repairs go, the easiest solution is often a board swap, because replacing SMD parts requires considerable skill and patience in addition to excellent troubleshooting skills. All is not lost, though -- things will change quickly if the economy continues to nosedive, for the simple reason that asian-made electronics will cost more to purchase and real incomes in the US will drop. Paradoxically, poverty breeds creativity and determination for geeks.

    1. Re:Things are slightly more complicated... by evilviper · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The introduction of surface-mount components and multi-function chipsets means that there are genuinely few "user serviceable" parts inside consumer goods.

      There are "few" indeed, which makes it simpler to find the problem, and repair it, since failures are very rarely due to a chip that burned out.

      Since the end of socket 7 motherboards, I haven't had one chipset fail on me. Now it's just a question of whether it's worth the effort to replace the bulging capacitor. The prices at Radioshack might make it futile, but saving cheap failed equipment for just a few years has given me better selection of parts, and nearly free. So for me, the answer is usually "yes" and I've repaired numerous failed motherboards, PSUs, etc.

      And what's the main cause of failure in most electronic devices? In my experience, it's very, very often just a weak solder connection that gave-up. 1 minute to look around for damaged joints, and another minute to fix it, and save $100... No more blowing on your Nintendo cartridges, or sacrificing a lamb before plugging in your controller from a 45 degree angle, and hoping it works. No more pushing hard on a marginal volume control knob, or putting just the right amount of pressure on a headphone jack, just spend 5 minutes and fix the damn things, instead of buying a new one.

      Unfortunately, lots of modern tech gear isn't designed to be fixed. It's designed to be cheap to produce.

      Equipment was almost never designed to be fixed. These days, it may be a hassle, but a great many things can still be fixed. Stuff just doesn't fail nearly as often, and it's reasonably cheap, so it's not entirely an economic necessity to fix it, and most people just don't ever try to learn how.

      That translates to mp3 players with shoddy connectors that pop of the circuit board, or DVD playback mechanisms with poor quality plastic drive gears.

      Connectors can be re-soldered. I've never seen plastic gears destroyed. But you should really look at buying stuff that ISN'T crap.

      In fact, the economics of computers has changed in interesting ways over the past few years. The "quality" components with nice long warranties are now (usually) just as cheap as the junk. When I need to replace some motherboard, I look at pricewatch and one of the cheapest 3 or so results is an MSI board. Looking for hard drives, often a Seagate is the cheapest, or very close to it. For optical drives, Samsung and Pioneer seem to always be the cheapest, yet they're the rock solid, much better than the rebranded Lite-On drives that most sell. It seems the industry is less of a free-for-all than it used-to be, and the handful of companies that can produce reliable equipment the cheapest are completely taking over.

      things will change quickly if the economy continues to nosedive, for the simple reason that asian-made electronics will cost more to purchase and real incomes in the US will drop.

      The US dollar is tightly coupled to the value of the Chinese Yuan. Until that changes, Chinese-made goods will stay exactly as relatively inexpensive, no matter how far the US economy nose-dives.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  20. Re:Ink Jet Cartridges by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Planned obsolescence should be punishable by some sort of recursive punishment."

    rm -f -r?

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  21. It's the economy, folks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The reason why people are suddenly more interested in the possibility of fixing their gadgets instead of throwing away old/broken items and buying new stuff is because the economy is tanking big-time right now.

    The high rising price of gasoline is one of the biggest key factors. Next is the rising basic cost of living. All around me I know people who now can barely afford to buy food plus pay the rent/mortgage plus pay their utilities after filling up their cars every week so they can drive to work. Buying new clothes or new gadgets? Ha, they wish they could, but just can't anymore. Luxury stuff like cable TV, and a landline plus cellphone went away for them a few months ago. Their $14.95/month basic DSL internet line will have to go by January, and they'll just do without internet, or go to the public library.

    Salaries / wages are not keeping up with inflation and increased cost of living either.

    The higher-paid technogeeks like me aren't hurting nearly as much, but some of the people I know can no longer make ends meet and it's starting to get ugly among the blue collar working stiffs out there.

    No wonder people are fixing stuff instead of buying new stuff lately.

    Duh.

    Go ahead and mod me down as flamebait. I'm angry as hell right now and need to vent.

    One of my blue collar buddies, who's brother just got blown up in Iraq last week, is having to charge his trip to Arlington Cemetery to attend the funeral on his almost maxed-out credit card (maxed out due to unexpected medical expenses for his kids, not because of bad spending habits), since the military offered him a "discounted" military/bereavement airline ticket at nearly $600 when he was able to find his own on Expedia for only $350. I offered to buy his ticket and hotel but he is too proud and refused to accept. Me and the rest of his friends will gang up on him when he returns and we'll fill his kitchen full of groceries for a couple months or something that he won't be able to refuse to help him out.

    1. Re:It's the economy, folks. by JimBobJoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The reason why people are suddenly more interested in the possibility of fixing their gadgets instead of throwing away old/broken items and buying new stuff is because the economy is tanking big-time right now.

      I don't agree with this. I think it's the internet--which has allowed people with little or no experience to find easy fix it solutions to a variety of problems--or find secondary vendors who can fix things cheaper than the manufacturer/replacement.

      As much as it's an iffy economy, consumer spending is still strong.

    2. Re:It's the economy, folks. by sydbarrett74 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the economy is tanking big-time right now Buying things largely on credit....an era of amazing new devices and technologies...globalisation....hyperproduction/hypoconsumption...corporate profits not trickling down to Joe Average...am I describing the Here and Now? Nope, I'm describing the Roaring Twenties. Dubya and his lackeys won't admit it, but the Great Depression can happen again. It's amazing how uncannily similar Dubya is to Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge, who stuck their heads in the sand and thought the Good Times(tm) would last...
      --
      'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
  22. Re:It's the economy, folks. -- Healthcare! by vranash · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'll give you a great example of what's bleeding non-corp types dry: Health Insurance.

    If you're keeping yourself insured and don't have a nice big company backing you, it's EXPENSIVE.
    As an example, I've got about 220 dollars per month in combined gas/insurance costs.

    Health insurance for that same period is 278 dollars/mo, and getting dropped end of this month.

    Combine that with minimum wage, and well you can see why I wouldn't be living on my own.
    Only other option is to sell out and pick a 'career' job, assuming you can find somewhere that'll hire you on full-time, and provide health care benefits (last job wouldn't either way, and given that it paid a buck and a half less than my prior job, it wasn't worth it!)

  23. It's the labor, stupid. by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Generally speaking, it takes more labor to build a device than it does to fix it. Therefore, one would think, it would be cheaper to fix than to replace a broken device. But when device-construction labor is done halfway across the globe by slave laborers, and device-repair work is done by locals who have to pay the same cost of living that the device's owner does, then that assumption breaks down.

    It's a distortion of the market brought on by capital being far more mobile than labor, that's all.

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
    1. Re:It's the labor, stupid. by Bluesman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not only slave labor, but automation. You can make thousands of copies of an item in the time it would take a human to diagnose and repair one.

      --
      If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
  24. Re:Good point by billdar · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Back at my old company, we used to re-mound BGA chips using a heat gun. Sure it'd warp the cheap FR4 boards a little, but it would work 80% of the time.

    The trick was to tin the pads on the PCB first, then apply a thin smear of flux. We had this cool pine-tar type flux, that if exposed to air would get a little sticky.

    The BGA chip (3-com network I believe) was oriented and "stuck" in position with the flux. The heat gun was applied to the under side of the board for ~45 seconds.

    Common problems associated to this technique were some balls ended up either "cold-soldered" or melting too much and shorting with its neighbor. Oh yeah, and replacing the resistors and such that fell off the backside while heating (damn full plane ground layer!). But the boards we worked on were dead to start with, so no big loss.

    Oh yeah, nobody else use this method. I don't want some jackass blaming me for starting a fire

    --
    I am billdar, and I approve this message.
  25. Cat Piss and Blown surface mount components by JohnAllison · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On Christmas day, my 3+ year old powerbook G4 met my mother-in-law's cat. Upon meeting, the cat evacuated on the keyboard. Flash forward 3 hours when I discovered that my powered laptop was dripping yellow. Powered electronics + ionic solution equal crusties everywhere. The backlight was out, but I could still see OS X on the LCD. I get back home and take the machine apart. With my trusty bottle of alcohol and cotton swabs, I start cleaning off the crusties. I could not save the inverter card but with a CFL placed behind the stripped LCD I found that the rest of the computer still functioned normally. While waiting for my card to arrive I had the wireless antenna drag across the main board while the laptop was powered. Flash, Pow, Smoke. Looked like a surface mount diode exploded. The diodes purpose? It was part of the battery charging circuitry. So I now had a laptop that could not charge, and requires a CFL placed behind the screen. For a week I toted this frankenstein machine to law school. Professors perplexed with a bare light bulb propped up in class. I figured out the part I blew by matching the writing that had survived the explosion with that of other diodes on the board. Then I searched google for those markers, and found the part for sale from Digikey. I ordered 5 parts for $0.50 + $8 shipping and handling. 5 because I knew I would probably lose one, burn one, and didn't want to be left with the perverbial 1 match in the matchbox scenario. Besides the main expense was shipping, not the $0.09 for the part. I did lose the first one. Once received, I soldered this tiny diode, received the backlight inverter board from Ebay, put it all together and finished the semester. I still can't believe that I fixed that thing. It was awesome.

  26. iPods by macemoneta · · Score: 2, Informative

    I just revived two 4th gen iPods with "dead" hard drives. It seems that the firmware in the iPods can't perform sector reallocation if a sector goes bad. The iTunes software won't re-init the drives in that case, and getting the drives into disk mode to diagnostics may not be possible.

    What I found is that if I connect the Firewire cable to an un-powered connector (6-pin unpowered, like a daisy chain, or via a 4 to 6 pin adapter), I can get the drive into disk mode. It must take a different path through the firmware in that case.

    Once in disk mode, I used dd_rescue (retry forever) on Linux to copy /dev/zero to the drive until full. After that, iTunes was able to re-init the drives. They've been working fine ever since (fully loaded). The first time I thought it was just a lucky coincidence. When the process worked a second time, it seemed downright odd.

    Why would Apple not have proper sectore reallocation software, especially in a mobile device? It's not like their customers would just buy another, or pay an (expensive) out of warranty repair. Oh, wait...

    --

    Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.

  27. That used to be standard stuff... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 3, Informative

    The owner's manual for most pieces of stereo equipment used to have a schematic diagram at the very least, and perhaps a detailed "theory of operation" description and parts list. Nowadays, you don't even get that level of detail in the factory SERVICE manual that you have to pay $40 to get!

    At least into the '80s, GE television sets used to have a condensed service manual (schematic and alignment instructions) stashed in a small compartment on the back of the set. Unfortunately, GE sets were some of the least reliable on the market at the time, so that service data was the least the factory could do to apologize for them. :)

    About the only products that still seem to include wiring diagrams nowadays are major appliances. Washers and dryers usually have a large diagram pasted inside the back cover.

    --
    Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
    1. Re:That used to be standard stuff... by rts008 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Firethorn, Genarat, Bluesman, MBCook, and you all raise valid points here.
      I think the big change has been the whole 'guarded proprietary/closed source gaurd so called 'Intellectual Property' mentality that started becoming prevalent in the so called Computer Age in the late 1980's.

      IMHO, IP is a vacuous and shady concept, but that's just me. As far as I'm concerned it is just another GenX marketdroid concept trying to be passed off as real goods. (yeah, I know...flame wars have been started for less, but that's how I feel)

      Your examples of washers and dryers are good ones- other than some proprietary boards and chipsets for the newer controllers, a washer is still a washer.

      Hell's Fire! Prior to the mid to later 1980's, quite a few automobiles came with a fairly detailed owner's manual and a basic toolkit.

      Up until the 1990's, I could readily get the parts (and references/schematics) for a product and repair it myself.
      Ranging from replacing drive belts on cheaper turntables and CD players to changing the ignition points in my distributor and setting the correct point-gap/dwell angle was trivial. (okay...the point-gap reference gives my age away somewhat, and is only good until the early 1970's, but HEY YOU KIDS! GET OFF OF MY LAWN!)

      With the Artificial Property (IP for you suckers out there) concept of 'virtual (as done on a computer) reality' being considered as a real, physical thing...the sky's the limit. No ground rules, no reality, nothing physical, nothing but ideas...and this is what we seem to be trying to establish as the new reality.

      It all reminds me of my Grandfather's definition of a mess: 'Trying to put ten gallons of shit in a five gallon bucket'....and we're bragging about trying it!....WTF?

      Yeah, call me a luddite, but in some ways (IP, current copyright laws[I'm looking at you Mickey Mouse and Sony Bono!], the current patent system, what society has been accustomed to, etc.) I'm glad to be 50, and will probably not live to see all of the CRAP that my children and especially my grandchildren will have to deal with.

      Yes, I'm sure that by kicking the bucket I will miss out on some cool stuff in the tech field, I don't regret missing out on the social aspects I see coming. It almost makes me think that the whole cyberpunk world of a corporate-run world.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk#Society_and_government

      And yes, I was amazed by the IBM Selectric (sp?) that only had one arm and a BALL! With all of the typable characters...on the BALL!...not separate mechanical levers attached to the individual keys on the machine!
      (Yes, I was that excited by this at that time! We were also playing blackjack and baseball(don't know if the baseball game was written in house, or was common at the time?!?!?!) on the NASA mainframes at Goddard Space Flight Center (NTTF Facilty) in Greenbelt, MD in the 1970's)

      I'm not a complete luddite however, I currently have a box here with a (okay-laugh dammit!) P4 Prescott/ Socket 478, 1GB PC2700 RAM, Audigy SC (PCI), ATI Radeon 9550-256MB AGP vid card[YAY ATI's newest fglrx drivers for Fiesty!!!], LiteOn 8x Dual Layer DVD R/RW, LiteOn 32x 12x 48x CD R/RW, 200GB Pri IDE drive (yes-it's a long story..I'm running this as my realworld primary drive!), 80GB and 100GB SATA1 drives as storage/backup drives.
      I am running Kubuntu 7.04(have been soley Kubuntu on this box since 6.04 Dapper LTS) with Compiz (could not do this until latest ATI/AMD fglrx drivers), 1280x1024@74 Hz and all 'eye candy' on, and (laugh again- but dammit, I REALLY liked TuxRacer when I was running Mandrake 7.? with a P3 800MGHz/ nVidia TNT2 64 vid card back in 1999-2001!)

      I sometimes miss my old WinXP era games like Battlefield 1942 and BF Vietnam, but I still have a box set up where we LAN, but at home....it's all Kubuntu for me- I can still play my Win95 and Win98 games with VirtualBox or DosBox(Xcom anyone?), so it's hard for me to personally get with the program of 'disposable goods' as mainstream.

      I do however have a few non-functionabl motherboards here I'd like to put back into sevice.....

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  28. Re:Good point by Firethorn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How much do you make an hour?

    Knowing what you're doing, how long would it take for you to diagnose a bad smt chip, dismount it without killing the board, then remount it? How much will the chip likely cost?

    Is it worth it in a appliance that cost $200 new, and is now three years old?

    Now, for that $2k bigscreen HDTV, it'd make more sense - but what if replacing the whole board is only $200?

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  29. Military, airline tickets. by Nick+Driver · · Score: 2, Informative

    The military doesn't obtain tickets for family members to attend funerals.

    I know that the US Air Force will assist with making arrangements for getting priority airline tickets, and will reimburse immediate next of kin (spouse, dependent children, or parents if not married, and not siblings either) travel expenses after the funeral, but the next-of-kin much purchase the tickets themselves up front. The original A/C never said the military (whatever branch, he didn't say) was buying his friend's ticket, only that they "offered", which sounds like they were just making bereavement flight arrangements only, which is consistent with what I learned when one of my friends who was in the USAF got killed in a plane crash several years ago, and the USAF issued a reimbursement voucher for his ex-wife and son's airline tickets to fly to Washington for the funeral.

  30. Children of the New Depression by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I was telling my sister and brother-in-law about how I was planning on doing a repair to my dad's fridge. They were almost outraged that I wasn't going to just replace it, kept cutting me off, wouldn't even let me speak "just buy a NEW one." Almost disgusted at me.

    I personally see it as almost immoral, given the current state of things, to throw out a huge appliance that barely gets used anyway and buy a new one because it needs a simple fix.

    The idea of repairing something almost offends them. I was staying at their house and their dishwasher quit, it was 2 years old but out of warranty. They were going to buy a new one and were bitching about it, I hired a guy to replace a faulty switch for $100 and my sister acted like it was a strange novelty. She had to hide the fact it had been repaired from her husband, he'd be pissed.

    I have the same attitude as my dad, the sort of environmentalism of the depression era - waste not, want not. Simple as that. I don't keep garbage, but unlike my sister and brother-in-law I don't buy a new PC every six months rather than just keeping it clean of malware, putting in a new HD, memory, etc.

    Part of that is because I have to live off of disability... but still, these people who are consumer droids buying a new cell phone for every kid in the household every six months... that's just fucked up.

    --
    This space available.
  31. Another "I'm Proud of Myself" Tale... by VAY · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I had a PowerBook, and four of the keys stopped working. I'm not a hardware kind of guy, but I figured that it must be the keyboard, right? Now, I'm in the UK, and you can't buy Apple parts here, so I sent off to the USA for a keyboard. I put it in, and for about a minute the keys work - and then they don't again. I'm kicking myself for my naivety in thinking I could fix it myself, and I'm £80 down.

    So I decide to take it to the professionals, and go to an Apple shop in Cheltenham (a franchise, not a /real/ Apple place, unfortunately). I have to wait nearly an hour after the advertised opening time for them to appear. I tell them that I replaced they keyboard already, that it looked like it was going to work and then stopped. I tell them that it's out of warranty, and yes I know that I'll have to give them £70 just to turn it on.

    Three days later I get a call from the engineer, who tells me it's out of warranty. Yes, I know, I say. By now I've noticed that the shop droid did not write down all that I told him about my attempted repair (hell, he didn't even get my name right), so I repeat this to the engineer (who was most snotty about my getting my own part myself).

    A week later I get a call saying that they swapped the keyboard out and it worked on a different machine, and that they put a new keyboard on my machine and it worked, and that they put my keyboard back on my machine and it worked. Thinking that this was unlikely but not impossible, I asked him to confirm that he had left it running for a minute. He said that he would leave it off to cool down and try again for me. Well, no I said, I think it needs to be left /on/ for a bit; perhaps the heat is affecting it. Sure says the guy, I'll leave it to cool and try again, no worries. Feeling that this conversation had gone as far as it could, I let it go. He phoned an our later to tell me that it still worked. With heavy heart that weekend, I went to pick it up. The guy in the shop did not show me it working, and when I went for coffee and tried to check it, there was no charge in the battery. So I get it home, turned it on, and after a minute... you see where I'm going with this, right?

    Well, the only good thing that came out of this was that he mentioned that he had not tried the 'topcase'. So I do a bit of investigation, and see that there is a ribbon cable from the keyboard to the topcase, and then another from the topcase to the logic board. If the logic board needs replacing, I may as well buy a new PowerBook (or whatever they are called now). But if it's the topcase, it is economically viable to fix it.

    So I have a few tight-lipped conversations with the 'Apple' shop and get my £70 quid back. I go onto eBay, and someone is selling a topcase for my model, which I get for £40. If it works, I have a fixed laptop; if not, I have diagnosed as much as I need for less than the 'professionals' were charging. And the news is all good - it works, and I have done what the pro's could not.

    Frankly, I don't know whether to feel self-satisfied or cross.

    And by the way, this story was brought to you by Western Computers, in Cheltenham and Bristol. Avoid.

    --
    What luck for rulers that men do not think. - Adolf Hitler
  32. Tv's too by scharkalvin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Years ago my wife's Panasonic 13" tv died. It started to 'smoke' and then went black.
    Normally not worth fixing, but she liked the set. So I opened it up and discovered a
    fried flyback transformer. Just so happened that a local parts outlet listed a replacement
    on their website in a cross reference to the orig. part number. And it was cheap. So
    I picked up a new part and installed it (simple unsolder/solder job on the main pc board).
    This didn't fix the set, but I then noticed a burnt out power resistor. Tracing the circuit
    it also showed me a suspect horizontal output transistor as well. So I went back to the
    jober and got a replacement power resistor and transistor for a few bucks more.
    I installed these parts and the tv came back to life. Next I had to re-adjust the crt
    setup pots and align the color convergence. These I did by eye (ok, I ALSO ordered a service
    manual for the set, which it being a major brand was available).
    Total out of pocket cost for parts and the manual was under $50. "My Hero" look in wife's eyes
    was priceless. We still have that tv today, and it still works fine.