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Google Honors Veterans Day, Finally

theodp writes "It took nearly a decade, but Google has done a turnabout and is honoring Veterans Day with a special holiday design for its famous logo. Users who log onto Google's home page are greeted with three World War I-era helmets capping the letters 'o' and 'e' in Google's name. The decoration is a marked departure for the company, which has come under fire from veterans' groups for ignoring American holidays such as Veterans Day and Memorial Day since Google's inception in 1999."

89 of 693 comments (clear)

  1. KDawson by Romancer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There needs to be a moderation system for editors.

    --


    ) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
    ) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
    1. Re:KDawson by gnalle · · Score: 5, Informative

      They already have that. Just go to preferences->homepage and disable him. http://slashdot.org/users.pl?op=edithome

    2. Re:KDawson by genooma · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yea, but that does not remove him from the RSS feed.
      Of course, it would be simpler if I could filter articles in akregator the same way I do with kmail.

  2. Under Fire? by tehwebguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought that part of the point of Google's honorary logos was that the holidays had to be:

    1. Completely obscure and unheard of
    or
    2. A MAJOR (American) holiday

    I don't understand why anyone would actively attack them over not including this particular one..

    p.s. first?

    --
    -- lol pwned
    1. Re:Under Fire? by Lord+Artemis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, attacking a company for not making a pretty logo is...downright silly.

      --
      Air is just like fog, but it's not gray.
    2. Re:Under Fire? by StarvingSE · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree. Also, I think it's downright idiodic that people are berating google over a stupid logo on veteran's day, but as we speak there are 1000's of veterans suffering from injuries due to iraq, and not being taken care of like they are supposed to. There are veterans that have been put on the street because they were forced to deal with the costs of their medical care that they can't afford. Yet these people actually care about a friggin' google logo.

      Way to direct your energies to a worthy cause, idiots.

      --
      I got nothin'
  3. Rememberance Day? by Xiroth · · Score: 5, Informative

    Uh, November the 11th sort of is an internationally observed day - in most parts of the world it's called Armistice day or Rememberance day, though. Much as I hate to break up the nationalism party, the end of World War I did sort of affect more than just Americans.

    1. Re:Rememberance Day? by MageWyn · · Score: 5, Funny

      It affected Mexicans and Canadians?

    2. Re:Rememberance Day? by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 5, Informative

      All this glorification of destructive force is one of the greatest shams running


      Actually Armistice Day is the glorification of an end to a bit of needless destructive force being applied across most of Europe. Thanks for playing, though.
      --
      Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
      Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
    3. Re:Rememberance Day? by feepness · · Score: 5, Informative

      It affected Mexicans and Canadians? Oh, you might say it had a minor effect on Canada.
    4. Re:Rememberance Day? by foobsr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      November 11th is, in practice, a completely ignored day in Scandinavia and Germany.

      Quite true. In Germany, at least in the more southern parts, November 11 is (and was as long as I can think back) more famous as the 'Karneval' (carnival) season starts at exactly 11:11 (a.m.). BTW, a google-logo in honour of this 'important' date would fit to the 'no evil' image much better.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    5. Re:Rememberance Day? by sayfawa · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually Armistice Day is the glorification of an end to a bit of needless destructive force being applied across most of Europe.

      Sure, that's the way it's supposed to be. But look at today's politicians marking the occasion with somber speeches and how important it is to never forget those who have fallen and we must have peace amongst nations and blah, blah, blah. Then the very next day they're back to beating their war drums and sending more people off to die. It's bullshit hypocrisy.

      And it has turned into a glorification of war. It's stopped being a day of mourning and warning and is now just a day of honoring the soldiers. "Look how brave they were, just like today's soldiers who are even now going off to become men and saving us from the evil forces across the sea."

      --
      Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
    6. Re:Rememberance Day? by TheJasper · · Score: 2, Informative

      Most parts of the world? Harldy, at least when you look it up on wikipedia. Here in the netherlands its a Catholic Holiday. ok, it's a catholic holiday everywhere, but here we celebrate it...at least the protestants do (I'ts sort of a halloween type thing where children beg for candy). Mostly its just my cousins birthday but they don't even *mention* it on wikipedia.

      anyway, I imagine that when they were one google for the world it didn't make sense to highlight a relatively unimportant holiday. Now that there is one google per country it makes more sense. though Google in english is still the default site for most IT people I know.

      wikipedia:

              * Armistice Day in France and Belgium
              * St. Martin's Day in the Netherlands, Germany, Flanders and Austria
              * Veterans Day in the United States (called Armistice Day until 1952, when the name was changed, and the holiday was re-geared toward all military veterans)
              * Remembrance Day in the Commonwealth of Nations, including United Kingdom, Australia and Canada.
              * Twins Day (1987) in Taiwan: a festival for biological twins and other multiples. The eleventh day of the eleventh month (11-11) consists of the same numeral in pairs and symbolizes their characteristics.
              * Poland - Independence Day (1918)
              * Colombia - Independence of Cartagena, Colombia, from Spain (1811)
              * Lplsis Day (1919) in Latvia: the official date for commemoration of Latvian soldiers, who had died for the country's freedom.
              * Angola - Independence Day (1975)
              * Opening of carnival season in Germany ("Karneval"/"Fasching" on 11-11, at 11:11), the Netherlands, and other countries
              * South Korea - Pepero Day

      Feast day of:

              * Bartholomew of Grottaferrata in the Roman Catholic Church
              * Martin of Tours in the Roman Catholic Church
              * Saint Mina in the Roman Catholic Church

    7. Re:Rememberance Day? by sepluv · · Score: 2, Informative
      One can wear a white poppy to remember the dead without supporting any glorification of war, in particular, redemption, i.e., the stated belief of the British Legion that sending soldiers to fight is always good (regardless of the morality of the conflict) because those who die killing others go straight to (Christian) heaven. The white poppies were first made in 1933 by war widows (following attempts as early 1926 by them to get the British Legion to decouple remembrance from glorification and redemption).

      BTW, http://google.com/ doesn't have a special logo on it for me (in the UK) and I did override the automatic redirect to the UK page.

      --
      Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley
      [This post is in the public domain (copyright-free) unless otherwise stated]
    8. Re:Rememberance Day? by Mutant321 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a fairly big day in the UK. In New Zealand, it's still traditional to have a minute's silence at 11am, often done in schools. There are other days to remember, but this is a pretty big one. WWI, in some ways, was a bigger lesson for humanity than WWII. It showed us that with the technology we've developed, no one truly wins when two or more big powers square off against each other. Until then, declaring war against other large powers for no real other reason than to prove your own power was commonplace.

      We learnt a lot more lessons from WWII (about what happens when a major power is backed into a corner), and from the Cold War (the fact that there was never a direct war between the two major powers involved shows we *are* learning, albeit slowly). Days like Nov 11th are there to help us remember these lessons, so we don't make the same mistake twice. In a lot of countries, these lessons are "rolled up" into one day, e.g in New Zealand, Anzac Day (25th April) is used to recognise all major wars NZ has been involved in, even though it was originally a WWI rememberance day.

      The fact that it's almost 100 years ago since these lessons were first learnt is even *more* reason for us to try to work hard to remember them.

    9. Re:Rememberance Day? by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Informative

      It happened 90 years ago. I wish people would just get on with their lives we got more problems today with other wars which are killing people but we never spend the time to think about them.

      Ahem. World War I led to the end of the Ottoman Empire and the creation of the British Mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine,. The former became Iraq. With the later, the British cut backroom deals where they double-crossed the Arabs living in Palestine and promised the land to the Zionist movement. A bit relevant today, no?

      WWI created the conditions for the Russian Revolution and formation of the Soviet Union. The treatment of Germany at its end set the stage for WWII; the aftermath of WWII lead to the Cold War between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R., which led to U.S. support for Iraq and the Taliban...

      We are still in the aftershocks of World War One. Indeed, I would not be surprised if future historians just call the period from 1914 to, maybe, 2064 as "the World War Age" or something. (Assuming, and hoping, that there will be human historians far enough into the future to get perspective on it all.)

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
  4. Googley woogley woo by Joe+Jay+Bee · · Score: 5, Funny

    BREAKING NEWS! Google updates logo for public holiday. HOLY SHIT!

    Cos I was just thinking, we didn't have enough google (non)-stories on Slashdot...

  5. Good for Google, but... by flabbergast · · Score: 5, Insightful

    couldn't we have picked a better source for the info? Yes, Google acknowledges Remembrance Day in Canada (as pointed out in this blog/whatever), but that doesn't mean they have to acknowledge Veterans/Memorial Day. Am I glad they did it? Sure. Do I believe they have to? No. Does World Net Daily have to go off on how Google is supposedly left leaning? Umm...no. I got to this part, and threw up a little in my mouth and called it a day.
    "In addition, the company came under fire for an editorial decision giving preferential placement to large, elite media outlets such as CNN and the BBC over independent news sources, such as WND, even if they are more recent, pertinent and exhaustive in their coverage."

    Who bloody cares? And "elite" media outlets? WTF does that mean? Independent news sources? How is the BBC not an independent news source? And what does this have to do with acknowledging Veterans Day? I would have preferred they simply said "Those commie pinkos in Silicon Valley aren't red blooded Americans for supporting Veterans." What a bunch of crap.

  6. And since it's been slashdotted... by Romancer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's the text from a google search and finding another blog carrying the text:

    By Joe Kovacs
    © 2007 WorldNetDaily.com

    Google's commemoration of Veterans Day 2007, the first time it has honored the U.S. holiday
    It took nearly a decade, but Internet giant Google is finally honoring Veterans Day with a special holiday design for its famous logo.
    Users who log onto Google's home page today will see three World War I-era helmets capping the letters "o" and "e" in Google's name.
    The decoration is a marked departure for the company, which has come under fire from veterans' groups for ignoring American holidays such as Veterans Day and Memorial Day since Google's inception in 1999.

    The firm, known for its widely used search engine, regularly modifies its logo to commemorate holidays, historical events and figures.

    "Maybe all the pressure is paying off," said WND reader Donna Hunter of Philadelphia. "God bless all our soldiers!"
    When the Los Angeles Times asked the California-based firm about the issue earlier this year, spokeswoman Sunny Gettinger responded, "Google's special logos tend to be lighthearted and often scientific in nature. We do not believe we can convey the appropriate somber tone through this medium to mark holidays like Memorial Day."
    The Ledger newspaper of Lakeland, Fla., called that excuse "laughable."

    As WND reported last year, Google had no problem honoring the war dead of other countries, creating a special logo with poppies for Remembrance Day in Australia, Canada, Ireland and the United Kingdom. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52914

    And for the ninth year in a row this past spring, Google declined to mark Memorial Day - something the company has done for the Chinese New Year, Valentine's Day, Halloween and other observances. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55900

    Just last month Google acknowledged an accomplishment of the communist Soviet Union, which launched the Sputnik space satellite 50 years ago.
    With the surprise launch of Sputnik 1 in 1957, the Soviet Union leaped ahead in the race for space between the U.S. and the communist empire. Sputnik's success followed the failure of the first two Project Vanguard launch attempts by the U.S. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57982

    Google also has given special honors for astronomer Percival Lowell, artist Edvard Munch and Louis Braille, inventor of the writing system for the blind.

    Other days commemorated included National Teachers Day, Women's Day, Ray Charles' birthday, World Water Day and St. George's Day.

    Besides overlooking Memorial Day and Veterans Day until today, it also has ignored Christmas.

    Google has been criticized for its one-sided political contributions and content policies:

    Rejecting an ad for a book critical of Bill and Hillary Clinton while continuing to accept anti-Bush themes
    Rejecting ads critical of Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., while continuing to run attack ads against former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas.
    Allowing the communist Chinese government to have the search engine block "objectionable" search terms such as "democracy."
    In addition, the company came under fire for an editorial decision giving preferential placement to large, elite media outlets such as CNN and the BBC over independent news sources, such as WND, even if they are more recent, pertinent and exhaustive in their coverage.

    As WND reported, 98 percent of all political donations by Google employees went to support Democrats, and as a matter of fact, Al Gore is now a senior adviser to Google.

    Google CEO Eric Schmidt gave the maximum legal limit of donations to Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry and to primary candidate Howard Dean.
    Schmidt also contributed the maximum amount to Sen. Clinton.

    --


    ) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
    ) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
    1. Re:And since it's been slashdotted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1) Debate the message, not the messenger.
      2) Someone who advocates raping and murdering others because they don't like their pollitical opinions has no business calling someone else "insane" or "fascist". Hint: that would be you, Chuckles.

    2. Re:And since it's been slashdotted... by jav1231 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      +1
      Too many people have picked their sides in this growing civil war and could care less about the truth because it might be reported on a conservative or liberal source. What's laughable is many then claim to be "moderate." "Oh I'm not a Democrat or Republican. I just want the truth!" Yeah right. This is getting out of hand. If I'm for lower taxes I have to choose Republican. If I'm for gay rights I have to be Democrat. Oh and if I'm gay and a Republican I risk being outed by gay Democrats. What is it that we want? Split the country? Looks like we could be headed that way.

    3. Re:And since it's been slashdotted... by Verteiron · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What is it that we want? Split the country? Looks like we could be headed that way.

      Step right up.

      --
      End of lesson. You may press the button.
    4. Re:And since it's been slashdotted... by SDF-7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Being shot in the head made that a little tricky, you know.

      (I know that was likely a joke -- but given the vast differences in political ability between Lincoln and Andrew Johnson, the South really should spit on the grave of Booth every chance they get. Reconstruction would have been VASTLY different if Lincoln had been around to rein in the Radical Republicans.)

    5. Re:And since it's been slashdotted... by operagost · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm sorry... was it Lincoln who fired on Fort Sumter, or rebel troops? Lincoln wasn't even in office yet, and the rebels were attacking Federal installations without even knowing or understanding what Lincoln's administration was going to do when it took office.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    6. Re:And since it's been slashdotted... by NaCh0 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      WND is a hate site.
      It's consistently full of lies, distortions and propaganda.


      By that standard so is Slashdot.

    7. Re:And since it's been slashdotted... by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Informative
      " It did piss a lot of people off, and yes, we are all suffering the consequences of his actions.

      And a hell of a lot more people are NOT suffering because of the consequence."

      I was alluding more to the loss of states rights to the greater Federal govt. powers....

      I'm guessing you're alluding to slavery, which while I'm grateful is overwith....that is not what Lincoln was out to reverse. If he could have kept the Union with slavery, he'd likely have done that. Slavery was horrible, but, don't kid yourself that it was the prime reason for the Civil war in the US.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  7. Subtlety in Web Design by compumike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While it's amazing that this story is newsworthy... it's worth taking a look at the bigger picture: people take notice at Google's logo changes because they've kept an uncluttered appearance. On most websites, you probably wouldn't even notice a small logo change!

    In general, the so-called Web2.0 revolution has brought about much more single-purpose tools, compared to the multi-tools of the past. This leads to deeper functional design and performance, instead of deep integration (which is only slowly coming along thanks to mashup-enabling technologies).

    The message is clear: web designers, get to the point! Don't distract your users. Make every word and every image count.

    --
    NerdKits: Educational microcontroller kits for the digital generation.

  8. Who cares... by Orthuberra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Do these same veterans groups attack Yahoo, MSN, and Altavista for not decorating their logos with militaria on Veteran's Day? This is a non-news post about a bunch of whiners if you ask me. Google's decoration can be purely voluntary and random for all I care. --As a USMC veteran to all the whiners, shut up.

    1. Re:Who cares... by Tuoqui · · Score: 2

      Well... If Yahoo, MSN, and Altavista DID change their logos for New Years, Christmas (and Kwanza and Hannucka), Easter, Valentines Day, 4th of July, Thanksgiving, etc... and didnt change it for Veteran's day then yeah they probably would.

      It's more about a bunch of minor holidays (I mean honestly who gives a fuck about valentine's day not like any slashdot reader has a girlfriend) not getting recognized and the day Veterans and the War dead are supposed to be honored not getting the respect it deserves.

      --
      09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
      +2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
  9. Reasonable by denoir · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Celebrating one specific country's past abilities of blowing up other countries may not be beneficial for a company that operates globally.

    1. Re:Reasonable by Pyrion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then they should title the image "Armistice Day" instead of "Veterans Day," just for that added pinch of spite (and for the sake of historical accuracy).

      --
      "There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell.
  10. World Nut Daily by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The summary:

    which has come under fire from veterans' groups for ignoring American holidays such as Veterans Day and Memorial Day since Google's inception in 1999."


    should read:

    which has come under fire from nut-job websites for rightly dropping their nut-job non-news site from the news index"


    World Nut Daily are a bunch of kooks, with a knife to grind. Getting listed in google news was a wet dream for them. Getting delisted ('cause they aint a news site), really pissed them off. They've had an anti-google axe to grind ever since.
    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
    1. Re:World Nut Daily by KevinIsOwn · · Score: 5, Funny

      Everything the article says is true. Google not only doesn't post Christmas logos, they hate Christmas, and they will use their new cellphone based Google OS to send signals into the air to turn Santa Clause into a mindless, liberal zombie. He will give presents of thongs and condoms to children, along with bootlegged copies of Brokeback mountain. Google will use liberal attack ad propaganda to turn us all into communists.

      Maybe you should read the "article" a little further. You'll find advertisements made with a nice big dose of crazy.

    2. Re:World Nut Daily by Khuffie · · Score: 3, Funny

      I like your version of Christmas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    3. Re:World Nut Daily by Slashboo · · Score: 2, Informative

      A lot of /.ers seemed to have a problem with WND, so I figured I would check the site out to see for myself whether they're the nutjobs they're cracked up to be. Hmm, "A free press for a free people", that doesn't sound too horrible. Then I clicked the link and was bombarded with ads such as "Jihadists reveal their global plans...to a JEW! Buy Schmoozing with Terrorists today!" and headlines like "Bible store owner riddled with bullets, Muslim suspected". I think I know who to side with on this one. Still, I would recomend checking it out yourself, it's good for a few laughs (or tears).

      --
      Reality is the original Rorschach.
  11. This story stinks by Oddster · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Click on their poll link at the end of their article, and this is what passes off:

    What are your thoughts on Google now that it designed a logo for veterans?
    • Fantastic! Google has had its head up its search engine for more than 7 years!
    • I'm glad to see the change of heart, and I'll use Google more often
    • I still have major gripes with Google, but at least this is a small step in the right direction
    • Looks like someone reminded people at Google they live in the U.S. and enjoy freedoms soldiers have shed blood fighting for
    • 1 lonely logo for veterans since 1999? Whoopidy-freakin-doo!
    • Google's logos are irrelevant
    • Google only did it to get WND off its back
    • Must have been the new guy who did the design. He's not hip to the anti-American company rules yet
    • Google is still evil, and must be shunned at all costs
    • Other
    And I RTFA'd too. No, these people don't have any sort of bias against the Googles. . . Put this WorldNetDaily.com on your list of propaganda websites that are too stupid to even try to appear objective.
    1. Re:This story stinks by RuBLed · · Score: 3, Funny

      at least they got other

  12. It wont do any good by truesaer · · Score: 5, Funny
    The "Google hates America!" claim was absurd as they have a special logo for Independence Day which is suitable flag themed. Some people just refuse to understand that the logo is changed only sometimes, and for a motley assortment of reason from serious (they have logos for memorial/veteran's day in Australia for example) to obscure (World Water Day). It isn't meant to recognize the top 20 most important events in history or something.


    At any rate, I think it's safe to say that next year WND will be bitching about Memorial Day and Columbus Day. And if they got logos for those it would be Reagan's Birthday and the day they pardoned Oliver North. You can't win with these whiners. It's a freaking logo, this is the stupidest controversy in history.

  13. In Defense of Google by vga_init · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not going to defend Google from the position of a fan, but only to say how I would feel if I were in that same position.

    If I had to design logos for my company based on holiday themes, what do you think I would do when I came across Veteran's Day? I can't think of any appropriate way to symbolize veterans without displaying something explicitly national or military. The holiday doesn't really have any symbols other than American flags and stuff, and that's not too great for public relations as I'm showcasing a particular country's role in a major war. War means killing people. Lots of people. Lots of people whose dead relatives and ancestors (on the other side of the conflict) are now customers of mine.

    Personally, I'd want to sweep this one under the rug. Google couldn't do that because of all the bad press it was getting, so they finally drew some army helmets. Sure, it's military equipment, but at least helmets save lives and rarely (if ever) end them. Also, the green little helmet doesn't have to identify any single nation, even though it's an American holiday.

    1. Re:In Defense of Google by David+at+Eeyore · · Score: 3, Insightful

      November 11 is hardly a holiday! In many parts of the english-speaking world and Europe, Remembrance Day is a solemn occasion where wreaths are laid at war memorials and a minutes silence is observed by many people at work and elsewhere at 1100 hours. I believe that it is also called Armistice Day in some parts of the world.

      --
      "Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups" seen on someone's blog...
    2. Re:In Defense of Google by wwahammy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well if you really want to nitpick, technically Veterans Day is solely an American holiday as other countries celebrate Rememberance Day (which I think is more appropriate but crazy thing is no one asked me).

      The poppy isn't well known for Veterans Day in the US. In fact until I found it on wikipedia a few months ago, I had no idea that about the significance of the poppy and November 11. From Google's perspective it wouldn't make much sense to make a logo that would make no sense to one of their largest markets. Military helmets are more universal in this case

    3. Re:In Defense of Google by value_added · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't the poppy pretty damn iconic as far as Rememberence Day is concerned?

      As a Canadian, I'd say yes.

      But here in the US, I have yet to see a poppy in anyone's lapel, and haven't met anyone familiar with the In Flanders Fields poem or who otherwise knows much about Rememberance Day in general. The differences, at least to me, are rather disappointing. When I was a kid, everyone in school and out wore their poppies proudly, and listened with reverence whenever and wherever the poem was recited.

      Then, there's the issue of how other countries commemorate the events of either war. I highly doubt Russia (an ally which, IIRC, lost something like 20 million in the last war) commemorates anything with a poem written by a Frenchman about a flower growing in Belgium.

      Maybe folks from other countries can offer some insight.

    4. Re:In Defense of Google by MochaMan · · Score: 2, Informative

      a poem written by a Frenchman about a flower growing in Belgium. Agree with you on every point but one: In Flanders Fields was written by a Canadian.
  14. Why is it a holiday? by niceone · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why is it a holiday? Looking after the nation's pets and livestock is a necessary job, but hardly worth an anual holiday, let alone a Google logo.

    And what have WWI helmets got to do with it anyway?

  15. Call of duty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, here I was thinking it was commemorating the release of Call of Duty 4. Well, either way, it works for me.

  16. As a Veteran... by Brian+Lewis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am a recent United States Navy Disabled Veteran, I was very happy to see this little design.

    Most people think veterans day is just "another day", but to the people serving in the military, and fighting for your rights, it means a lot. Each and every time I see anything that honors veterans, it really makes my day.

    Shit, I cry during the National Anthem and the Pledge because, as a former military member, those words really do mean a lot more to me.

    1. Re:As a Veteran... by Brian+Lewis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I didn't have any limbs shot off. Nor did I EVER claim that you had to have an injury to respect the people who fight so you don't have to. I don't believe in the war with Iraq, however, I did what I believe was the right thing to do for my country.

      When the next draft comes around, how many of you will run to canada and claim you're a Consienance Objector (sp?). How many of you will encourage your children, if they're of age, to go fight for this country?

      Hell, how many of you have used our resources such as financial aid? It would be nice to give back by defending your nations freedoms. I STRONGLY believe in something the Germans currently do, where (and I may be wrong about the specifics) once you're like 18 you must do a couple years in either the military OR the civil service. Manditory. That would definitely build some national pride and respect.

      The point is without our veterans, we would all be speaking German right now. Veterans day is more than just WWI/II Iraq,Nam,Etc. It a rememberence of every war that we, as Americans, have fought so that our way of life - our freedoms (albeit a lot more limited now that GW is at the 'throne') - and our ability to prosper.

      In closing, let me recite to you all the Sailors Creed. Think about the meaning of each and every portion and honestly look inside yourself to see if they mean nothing to you, if you're an American:

      I am a United States Sailor.
      I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.
      I represent the fighting spirit of the Navy and those who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world.
      I proudly serve my country's Navy combat team with Honor, Courage and Commitment.
      I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all.

    2. Re:As a Veteran... by Kokuyo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When the next draft comes around, how many of you will run to canada and claim you're a Consienance Objector (sp?). How many of you will encourage your children, if they're of age, to go fight for this country? Well, I'm not an American but I believe this is somewhat universal:

      The effing day someone actually gives a fuck about my in my government is the day I might start considering serving for the country. As it stands now, everything I have comes from personal struggle or through our combined efforts to exploit others. There is nothing to be proud of of your country. Patriotism is a plague.
    3. Re:As a Veteran... by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I STRONGLY believe in something the Germans currently do, where (and I may be wrong about the specifics) once you're like 18 you must do a couple years in either the military OR the civil service. Manditory. That would definitely build some national pride and respect.

      Conscription==Slavery. I cannot see why people have a problem understanding this.

      Time and again arguments like "national pride", "respect"(WTF?), "useful skills" and of course "manhood"(LOL), are brought forward to justify forcing people to labor for the state against their will. I mean sure, if you want to serve in the military, then go right ahead. And if you feel it's done you and your country a lot of good, all the better. But your positive experience is not guaranteed to be universal.

      Bottom line, you are forcing people, often under pain of death, to do work they will not be fairly paid to do, if they are paid at all. If that is not slavery, I don't know what is.

      Even in wartime, it's not excusable. Why can't people accept the fact that if your army is too weak because not enough people joined, then it's basically a sign that not enough people in your country thought it was worth fighting for. I mean, aren't people entitled to say; "I don't consider this country to be worth fighting for". Isn't that a legitimate viewpoint?

      Geermany is one of the worst examples of modern conscription. A perennially peacetime nation that nonetheless forces, under duress, millions of people to do its bidding in one way or the other, under the banner defending the nation. What a joke. Maybe they should consider paying their volunteers more, instead of going for the cheaper option.

      If my country ever implements conscription, I'll leave it. I'll leave it because I'll know that I'll no longer be free there. I'll just be a feudal vassal or serf, who can be forced into work at any time. When that happens, my country won't be worth fighting for anymore.

      You think people remember the oppressed and chain ganged conscripts on veterans day? No. They're something people would like to forget. It's mostly the volunteer corps who are paraded and celebrated. The conscripts who survived were given a pittance and what was left of their stolen lives and were told to be on their way.
      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    4. Re:As a Veteran... by uberdilligaff · · Score: 2

      Thank you for serving, man. It's a tough job that's not appreciated by everybody -- witness some of these comments. But we all benefit from the sacrifices and awesome efforts of our military, and for that I am grateful.

      --
      Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain. --Friederich Schiller
    5. Re:As a Veteran... by petrus4 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Time and again arguments like "national pride", "respect"(WTF?), "useful skills" and of course "manhood"(LOL)

      The other thing of course about the manhood argument in Bush's context is its' degree of inconsistency.

      I heard about a soldier giving a speech at a high school in the US where he told some student to, "be a man." The immediate response that came to mind was, "what, you mean the way Bush and Cheney were when they dodged?"

      Nobody should IMHO be using WW2 as justification for feeling warm and fuzzy over anyone who is idiotic enough to go to Iraq. WW2 was a very different conflict, in a very different time. Sure, back then people were fighting for the continuation of the free world...but back then, such was actually *worth* potentially getting yourself killed for. Also, back then the human race itself was something worth preserving...these days, that's nowhere near as certain as it once was.

      Soldiers or vets are perfectly free in my own mind to deride me as a snot-nosed civilian who will die without ever having put my own head on the block; fine, guilty as charged. My point though is that there's *another* snot-nosed civilian currently sitting in the White House, who also has never put himself in the firing line, who even with that, orders you to go and get yourselves killed in a war that has zero relevance or benefit for you personally, and which exists in its' entirety to make said civilian and others like him a whole lot more wealthy...and you listen to him, go and do it, and then expect people to applaud this incredible gullibility if you happen to survive the experience.

      Something else I read once, and which I try and apply if there's ever a scenario where it's relevant, (even if the only real place where it happens is World of Warcraft) is that the only type of commander who's worth anything at all is one who never, ever orders anyone under him to do anything that he isn't willing to do himself.

      Next time you go to think of Bush as your Commander in Chief, stop and ask yourselves...Do you really think, given the opportunity, he'd willingly be there dodging bullets with you in Fallujah or Kirkuk?

    6. Re:As a Veteran... by NEW22 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You say that the military doesn't provide recruits with a list of assignments and wars they'll be engaging in so you can decide if you agree with the principles used to justify them. This is exactly what makes volunteering for the military such a dubious proposition, and seriously clouds the idea that such a sacrifice should automatically be considered a positive thing, or even respected.

      If recruiting requires one to sacrifice your moral decision making to a 3rd party, the amount of respect you deserve really depends upon the morality of your commander, in a sense. Do I have to respect a soldier who kills someone, while I oppose that killing and everything their objective stands for? Do I only have to respect him for being from my country, or because I should give him the benefit of the doubt that he means well? What about "serving a country" makes that anything more automatically deserving of respect?

      Respecting soldiers' sacrifice automatically amounts to support for what they did, even though there are instances where soldiers have been the iron fist behind atrocities and evil. Respecting the soldiers of your own nation while not having respect (or having less respect) for those of your nation's enemies basically amounts to the perpetuation of nationalism. Respect those who do good, regardless of their location or background. Respect for soldiers must be conditional based on what they have done, just like it is for any other person.

  17. Re:Okay that does it- I want Queens day to be hono by Brian+Lewis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Flame me all you want on this one, but I find the demands for acknowledging veterans day are both quite US centric and utterly unsensitive to the rest of the world.

    What if I would DEMAND that Google also include the Dutch "Queen's day" for the rest of the world to see? That wouldn't make sense at all. But at least it's not as insensitive as rubbing salt into the wounds of Iraqi or Afghan or Vietnamese or Japanese people who visit Google (and the list will keep growing for a while). I'm sure those people will be thrilled to know that the killers of their lost family are being honored on this special day. If you actually check, google is only putting this out on the US version of the site, ie www.google.com a quick look at www.google.co.uk will clearly show the helmets are not there.

    Try doing some research before making stupid demands to the search engine gods.
  18. Re:Okay that does it- I want Queens day to be hono by Etrias · · Score: 3, Funny

    I wonder how they would make a caricature of Freddie Mercury embedded in the Google logo?

  19. Give me one good reason by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Care to tell me why Google should feel "bad" about not celebrating (if you can call it celebrating) a holiday nobody outside the US cares about? Or rather, why should they be "forced" to consider some national holiday important?

    Halloween, ok. It's more or less international by now. Christmas? Ok, as long as it's done in a way that isn't Christo-centric and includes other religions' celebrations (you know it's actually Midwinter, right? It's not like the Pope invented that one). I can see Chinese new year, as it's celebrated by Chinese people all over the world and not just by people in the PRC. Even the Sputnik launch makes sense, less in a commemoration of the achivements of the Soviet Union as rather a stunning achivement in technology (personally, I don't give a rat's behind who does something great as long as someone does it).

    But memorial day (or whatever it is)? Hello? Ask anyone in Europe when that day is and you get a "What's Memorial day? Did they move our national holiday again?"

    So what's next? Will we get pressure from other special interest groups to celebrate "their" holiday on Google? A special Ramadan frontpage? And one for Martin Luther King day? Hey, I'm quite pissed there was none for our great national holiday! Rant! Whine! Tantrum! I want one!

    Could we concentrate on holidays that at least a sizable portion of the planet cares about?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Give me one good reason by Zelos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's Armistice Day, as in the day the guns stopped firing, not Versailles day.

  20. Reality.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most world war 1 vetrans would slap the crap out of these people for whining.. They died to defend our right to freedom.

    And then they would slap the crap out of the rest of us for letting our country turn into the clusterfuck it is today.

    1. Re:Reality.... by belmolis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hunh? WWII was about defending freedom. WWI wasn't about much of anything.

  21. In Flanders Fields by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    In Flanders fields the poppies blow
    Between the crosses, row on row,
    That mark our place; and in the sky
    The larks, still bravely singing, fly
    Scarce heard amid the guns below.

    We are the Dead. Short days ago
    We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
    Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
    In Flanders fields.

    Take up our quarrel with the foe:
    To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high.
    If ye break faith with us who die
    We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
    In Flanders fields.

    1. Re:In Flanders Fields by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
      Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
      Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
      And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
      Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
      But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
      Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
      Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

      GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
      Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
      But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
      And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
      Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
      As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

      In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
      He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

      If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
      Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
      And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
      His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
      If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
      Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
      Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
      Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
      My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
      To children ardent for some desperate glory,
      The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
      Pro patria mori.

    2. Re:In Flanders Fields by zombie_striptease · · Score: 2, Informative

      For anyone curious, that's Dulce et Decorum Est, by Wilfred Owen, a British man who fought and died in WWI. Highly relevant. He also wrote the Anthem for Doomed Youth:

      What passing-bells for these who die as cattle?
                  Only the monstrous anger of the guns.
                  Only the stuttering rifles' rapid rattle
      Can patter out their hasty orisons.
      No mockeries now for them; no prayers nor bells,
      Nor any voice of mourning save the choirs,--
      The shrill, demented choirs of wailing shells;
      And bugles calling for them from sad shires.

      What candles may be held to speed them all?
                  Not in the hands of boys, but in their eyes
      Shall shine the holy glimmers of goodbyes.
                  The pallor of girls' brows shall be their pall;
      Their flowers the tenderness of patient minds,
      And each slow dusk a drawing-down of blinds.

  22. which veterans' organizations are pushing this? by belmolis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The article doesn't say which veterans' organizations have been putting pressure on Google, but I bet it was the American Legion, and if it was, and I were Google, I would refuse to put up a special logo for the sole purpose of spiting them. The American Legion is a nasty, greedy, warmongering organization. None of the vets in my family or circle of friends will have anything to do with them. Remembrance Day here in Canada (I'm a dual citizen and have lived in both countries) has a very different feeling from Veterans' Day in the US.

  23. Check WW1 history you dolt by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I am ashamed you are a countryman of mine. Iraq back then was part of the Ottoman empire, so didn't even exist back then. Japan was on the "allied" site. Vietnam was a french colony, so on the same side as the US (when the americans finally got involved).

    The 11th of november is remembered in the western nations that took part in WW1, this includes the US, canada, great britian, france and belgium at least. It is NOT a US day. It is also not a celebrations, it is a remembrance of those who died. Not a glorification of killing but a rememberance of the loss.

    It is similar to our 4th of may, we remember those who died, ALL who died, in conflict. This includes those on the other side. No we do not lay reefs at site of nazi war criminals, but the graves of german soldiers are tended too and they too are remembered.

    Frankly most soldiers from these past wars have learned to forgive but never forget, they can talk with their former enemies, why can't you get over it.

    As for google displaying a bit of pride in the US, it is a US site. Let the afghans and iraqies and anyone else with a beef against the US go on their own internet and use their own search engines.

    As a dutch person surely you must have noticed how everything turns orange around queens day? How should people from Suriname feel about that? Enslaved by dutch forces, to pay for the dutch empire, about this day?

    Start looking a little closer at home before you start blaming other countries.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  24. Armistice day by stzein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This holiday is actually the anniversary of the end of WWI. It is celebrated in several countries as armistice day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armistice_Day. The Google logo was quite appropriate for this. If the USA want to celebrate their veterans that day, fine, but that's no reason to forget the origin of the holiday. To us in Belgium it's a holiday about peace, not about war (or those who wage it).

  25. yeah, but remember what? by m2943 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Looks to me like people are remembering the wrong thing. On November 11, one should commemorate fallen soldiers. But one should also remember the political and social issues that caused millions to die in WWI and WWII in the first place, the international cooperation it took to win in those conflicts, and the dangers of right wing populism, nationalism, and militarism.

    It seems to me those lessons are getting lost, in particular among the right wing nuts that complain about Google not having a special logo for Veterans Day.

    1. Re:yeah, but remember what? by jonadab · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > Memorial Day is for fallen soldiers and Veterans Day is for all who served (living and dead).

      That's splitting hairs. Apart from maybe the immediate families of the soldiers concerned, people either remember and honor the people who fought in wars, or they don't.

      Then there's Labor Day. Virtually nobody even KNOWS anymore what that was originally supposed to be, but in practice it now serves exactly the same purpose as Memorial Day: a lot of people get a day off work and probably have a barbeque with their families or something. (Not that this isn't several orders of magnitude more worthwhile than New Years...)

      The thing about national holidays is that, politically, you can never reduce the number of them. It's relatively easy to add one, but pretty soon you have too many. One per month is clearly far too many, but there's no way to cut back without deeply offending someone, and sooner or later there's going to be another push to add one for something... You pretty much need a full-scale revolution every few hundred years just to reset the count, and that's just messed up.

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
  26. Two problems by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 4, Informative

    1) There's separate Google sites for non-American users, so recognizing Memorial Day doesn't have to offend anyone outside of the US.
    2) 11/11 isn't just an American Holiday. There were several nations involved in WWI. Most (on the winning side) recognize Armistice Day (last I checked), in some form or another. Hence the WWI style flak helmets on the logo, which are rather appropriate. In the US and most Commonwealth countries they have since extended the Holiday to honoring all Veterans, though...

    --
    Maxim: People cannot follow directions.
    Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
  27. Re:Patriots are Idiots. by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can be proud of your country's achivements. A country as a whole can pull off remarkable feats. I can well see a person from the USA being proud that their country pulled together to put a man on the moon. That's a national feat. And being proud of your country's achivements (as long as it doesn't so happen to be some inventor who just happens to live there) is quite acceptable in my books.

    What's utterly BS is being proud to be from a certain country. What's there to be proud of? That you were born there? Yeah, great feat. You're my hero. Question for 500: What did you do to make that country great?

    Nobody who's proud to be from $country managed to claim those 500 so far.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  28. World Net Daily is a right wing site by simong · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's just make sure that everyone gets that before this goes too far. It's also the work of one man, so let's not go pretending that it's an authority on anything.

  29. Re:Fuck Veterans Day by petrus4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Fuck all of you smash capitalism and imperialist war with international socialist revolution.

    Ummm...I'm fairly sure one of the things Veteran's Day would mark is the winning of the Cold War. ;-)

    Seriously guys...this sort of extreme Marxist ranting and foaming at the mouth is really getting old. Are any of you truly naive and idiotic enough to believe that we'd be any better off in a Marxist scenario?

  30. As the son of a world war II veteran by voss · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I kind of resent the implication that veterans day is a political holiday. I oppose
    the war in iraq, I do not read WND but Veterans day is important.

    The reason it was changed from armistice day to veterans day in the US was to honor the
    veterans of world war II and Korea.

    Maybe we could put aside the crass partisan catcalling for a day and remember that.

  31. From a Veteran by OSXCPA · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I could not care less about Vetereans day - and I'm an American USMC veteran (six years active duty, combat, got all the fruit salad to wear, thanks...). A Federal Day off (in the US) is worth nothing to me. I would be happy if the civilian leadership (that's you, voters) would bother to learn from history and maybe learn about the world outside the US borders, so there might be fewer Vets in need of remembrance or memorial and more walking around pulling air and enjoying the good life we seem to take for granted and by right.

    Why should Google placing a helmet or other cartoon on their home page mean anything, and why should I care?

    Sorry, it is *that* day. /Rant

  32. Re:Nazi == National Socialist German Workers Party by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Socialism and National Socialism are completely opposite ideologies. Calling yourself a "socialist" in Hitler's Germany got you a one way ticket to prison - if you were lucky. National Socialism is an ideology based upon racial superiority. Socialism is an ideology based upon working cooperatively rather than in competition.

    Here are some other helpful things to know:

    1. Christian Scientists are not scientists
    2. Neo-liberals are not liberals
    3. Parapsychologists are not psychologists
    4. Shampoo is not poo

    The last of these is particularly important, especially if you're the kind of person who believes that socialism and national socialism resemble one another in some way. You will not "save money" by using your own poo to wash your hair.

    I hope this helps,

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  33. Re:About the tags for this article by spidey3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It is exactly this sort of tirade which causes us to lose respect for members of the military.

  34. Re:Nazi == National Socialist German Workers Party by untree · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That is what National Socialism means today, because it is associated with the racist views that the Nazi party came to be known for.

    While white supremacy may have been a key social issue for some "voters," the party also had ideas about how to run the other aspects of society. The other views of the party were that the government should control the economy so so that everyone (well everyone who was white non-Jewish) gets their fair share. This is socialism.

  35. Re:Nazi == National Socialist German Workers Party by baldass_newbie · · Score: 4, Informative

    National Socialism "considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the interests of the state."
    How does this differ from Liberalism/Socialism? Or Hillary Clinton's famous "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."

    As far as I can tell, the one difference between Nazi's and Communists were their stances on private property - Nazi's believed in Private Property insofar as it did what the state directed it to do. VW didn't come up with the Volkswagon themselves.
    'Racial Superiority' was part of the Nazi's idealogical arsenal, however it was not and is not the chief defining characteristic any more than anti-Zionism is Communism's.

    And Socialism has precious little to do with 'working cooperatively' and everything to do with wealth redistribution. I guess it depends on which side of the equation you're on, eh?

    --
    The opposite of progress is congress
  36. The face of "progressivism" by Loundry · · Score: 2, Informative

    Use of the work "fuck"?

    Those people are fucking insane.

    Check!

    Abuse of the word "fascist"?

    Idiotic, fascist keyboard warriors.

    Check!

    Expressions of violence and murder?

    I hope they all die painfully.

    Check!

    Excessive guilt-by-association with a bonus condoning of rape?

    And honestly... anybody who links them should get raped by a spool of razor wire.

    Check!

    This is what "progressives" have become. All of you. I cast you out. You are not me. You are not anti-racist. You are not humanist. You are evil.

    It's fucking awful.

    I agree with you. We merely disagree on the "it".

    --
    I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    1. Re:The face of "progressivism" by HairyNevus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I bet if I were to take the worst bad apple of whatever group you belonged to I could make a huge generalization that made you all look bad. Oh well, at least you were being totally on topic.

      --
      You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
  37. Severe lack of nuance by Loundry · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Socialism and National Socialism are completely opposite ideologies.

    That is entirely black-and-white thinking to say that socialism and the Nazi idology are "completely opposite" ideologies. Only a Nazi or a Communist would say such a thing, since both of then were fighting each other for who would be the totalitarian slave-lord of Europe. Do you think "slavery" is too harsh a term to describe the Communists? Read the Gulag Archipeligo and get informed as to who performed the work in the GULAG (what was a "zek"?) and how they were ... ahem ... acquired.

    In truth, both the Nazi ideology and the Communist ideology are anti-individual and thus evil ideologies which deserve to be utterly destroyed. I demand nothing less than complete and unconditional surrender from both of them.

    If you hate individualism, then you'll probably see my last comment as somewhat extreme. In that case, you would be a prime candidate for Nazi/Communist proselytizing.

    --
    I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    1. Re:Severe lack of nuance by localman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pro individualism, but I also recognize that pure individualism doesn't work. It's all about finding the sweet spot between being and individual and being a member of a group -- because that is what each of us is. If you can't see that then you're victim to the same black-and-white thinking you are calling out.

      In other words: show me a country with zero public services and I'll show you a place you don't want to live.

      Cheers.

  38. Re:Remembrance Day? by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Thanks I was going to mention it was an International holiday. I am afraid that history education in most countries is pretty lacking. On the eleventh hour, eleventh day of the eleventh month of 1918 WWI ended. It was a bloody war that took millions of lives. I think it is a day well worth remembering.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  39. It's *still* the face of "progressivism" by Loundry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Excessive guilt-by-association with a bonus condoning of "evil"?

    First, I'm not slamming him for being associated with "progressives". I'm saying that "progressivism" itself is evil.

    Second, you mis-used the world "condone". It means "to overlook". And I am certainly NOT doing that.

    honestly, you're just as bad as that which you purport to 'cast out'.

    First, I notice that you are castigating me for criticizing the "progressive" instead of objecting to what the parent wrote. Shall I assume that you approve of all of the "progressive" things which were written?

    Second, how do you judge me "just as bad" as that which I cast out? Namely, where did I espouse the things for which I judged him evil?

    if lumping everyone you disagree with under some stupid insulting banner is bad in the parent post, it's just as bad when you do it too.

    I am not "lumping everyone I disagree with" under a stupid insulting banner. I am objecting to:

    1. The overuse of profanity
    2. The abuse of the word "fascist"
    3. Expressing violence and wishing for murder
    4. Excessive guilt-by-associating
    5. Condoning of rape -- I take it back. He wasn't merely "condoning". He was actively wishing that someone be violently raped.

    All of those were expressed in the parent post, and I see all of those and much more in most "progressive" writing today. I think that "progressivism" stands for all five of those things, and thus "progressivism" is evil. If you disagree, then please explain where I've gone wrong, you who saw no reason to object to what the parent poster wrote.

    --
    I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
    1. Re:It's *still* the face of "progressivism" by Rakarra · · Score: 2, Insightful
      First, I'm not slamming him for being associated with "progressives". I'm saying that "progressivism" itself is evil.

      Well by that token Fred Phelps and his "God Hates Fags" protesters are the face of the conservative movement. Casting the most radical of any faction as the norm is an easy way to dismiss any political movement.

    2. Re:It's *still* the face of "progressivism" by ArcherB · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Well by that token Fred Phelps and his "God Hates Fags" protesters are the face of the conservative movement. Casting the most radical of any faction as the norm is an easy way to dismiss any political movement.

      Actually, Fred Phelps is a Democrat. Just as the Log Cabin Republicans. (actually, there are many others I could have chosen, but I thought the LCR would be most fitting)

      Here, I'll even correct your first sentence for you:

      Well by that token Fred Phelps and his "God Hates Fags" protesters are the face of the Democrat movement. I guess my only point here is to point out that conservatives, Christians, and just about everyone else with a brain has tossed out Phelps' cult as a representative of their organization. Something I have NOT seen progressives do with the likes of Rosie O'Donnell, Markos Molitas, Keith Olbermann, Code Pink, ANSWER, or Sandy Berger. Hell, these progressives have even gone so far as to embrace the likes of Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez!

      Those of us on the right will unlump these guys from the progressive movement as soon as we see some progressives criticize them.
      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    3. Re:It's *still* the face of "progressivism" by cduffy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here's another option for you:

      I ignore assholes on the Internet. Someone goes off about rape and razor wire and such? They go onto my mental blacklist. To condemn them would be to acknowledge them -- and that's more than they're worth. Social ostracism works better than open condemnation sometimes, because the latter allows those who flaunt social conditioning to decide the topic of discussion; further, this policy means that these most offensive of trolls are denied the response they crave.

      So -- you have "progressives" tagged with any number of negative correlations. That doesn't tell me, in your mind, what defensible or positive positions you also have associated -- so I can't debate them. It's obvious that rape and murder are unacceptable -- so obvious that there's no point in jumping into the conversation to say as much; individuals who would argue to the contrary are inherently unreasonable, and there's no point in talking to unreasonable people. If you want to talk about socialized healthcare, or intellectual property law, or states rights, or taxation... well, those are all good topics, and I'm happy to discuss them. But to discuss "progressivism" with someone whose view of what that represents is so tainted with baggage unassociated with the philosophy and agenda would be simply a waste of time.

      I enjoy talking religion with an individual who knows the subject and the arguments -- who is willing to discuss the anthropic principal and offer considered rebuttals. I enjoy talking politics or intellectual property law or computers with someone who has something interesting to say and is willing to challenge my beliefs in the saying of it. Those who mark themselves "nutter", on the other hand, are not worth my time and attention. Do I thus overlook their behavior? I consider my behavior to be snubbing it -- and them.

  40. Re:Progressive Elitism by jdgeorge · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What we have here is a pissing contest between people who are deeply impressed with how "smart" they are. Can you do math quickly? Probably. Do you have an extraordinary memory? Almost certainly. Are you great a puzzles? Indubitably.....

    So, when these two geniuses disagree, the argument is "I'm pretty sure I'm much, MUCH smarter than you are", followed by "I'm pretty sure you're not".

    That is pathetic.

    That is also a great demonstration that someone who is extraordinarily "smart" isn't necessarily wise or admirable.

  41. You can filter any editors from the front page by Optic7 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Through changing your preferences here.

  42. Re:Nazi == National Socialist German Workers Party by mantito · · Score: 2, Informative

    The other views of the party were that the government should control the economy so so that everyone (well everyone who was white non-Jewish) gets their fair share. This is socialism. It wasnt their view:

    Hitler had always been hostile to socialist ideas, especially those that involved racial or sexual equality. However, socialism was a popular political philosophy in Germany after the First World War. This was reflected in the growth in the German Social Democrat Party (SDP), the largest political party in Germany.

    Hitler, therefore redefined socialism by placing the word 'National' before it. He claimed he was only in favour of equality for those who had "German blood". Jews and other "aliens" would lose their rights of citizenship, and immigration of non-Germans should be brought to an end.

    In February 1920, the NSDAP published its first programme which became known as the "Twenty-Five Points". [..] To appeal to the working class and socialists, the programme included several measures that would redistribute income and war profits, profit-sharing in large industries, nationalization of trusts, increases in old-age pensions and free education.

    [..]

    In an attempt to obtain financial contributions from industrialists, Hitler wrote a pamphlet in 1927 entitled The Road to Resurgence. Only a small number of these pamphlets were printed and they were only meant for the eyes of the top industrialists in Germany. The reason that the pamphlet was kept secret was that it contained information that would have upset Hitler's working-class supporters. In the pamphlet Hitler implied that the anti-capitalist measures included in the original twenty-five points of the NSDAP programme would not be implemented if he gained power.
    Hitler began to argue that "capitalists had worked their way to the top through their capacity, and on the basis of this selection they have the right to lead." Hitler claimed that national socialism meant all people doing their best for society and posed no threat to the wealth of the rich.

    Also please read
    http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/10/31/hitler-socialism.htm
    http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm
  43. Re:Progressive Elitism by operagost · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We don't need to defend our economic policies because they're not disastrous. Compare Clinton to both Bushes and even Reagan, whose economic mismanagement had the good fortune to occur just after the country stopped being boycotted by OPEC.
    I only wish we could always be "mismanaged" the way Reagan's administration mismanaged; we went from double-digit unemployment and inflation to single digits and gas prices dropped to records lows. Carter told us to keep our chins up and put on a sweater if we couldn't afford heat.
    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.