Microsoft To Offer Xbox 1 Games For Download, Celebrates Live Anniversary

Joystiq is reporting that Microsoft's Xbox Live service will be offering some great party favors soon, as the company celebrates the service's second birthday. Starting at 12:01 a.m. EST on November 15th, and lasting for 48 hours, users will be able to download the most-excellent board game Carcassonne for free. They've also announced their intent to allow us to download original Xbox titles to the 360 console. "In its press release, Microsoft explicitly named Halo, Psychonauts, Crimson Skies and Fable as titles for the Xbox Originals initiative, but did not confirm exactly which games will serve as the jumpoff: 'This new service will launch with an array of blockbuster titles spanning the most popular genres from action-adventure to classic role-playing games.' Third-party reports claim the preliminary lineup will also include ... Indigo Prophecy ... Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath Of Cortex and Burnout 3."

Comments

Question

[Kingrames]

Does this include the games that don't work on the 360 from the disc?
That would be nice.

Re:Question

[twistedsymphony]

It potentially could but it probably wont.

By offering them for download they can tweak and recompile the games to run natively on the 360's architecture so it definitely opens the potential to offer games that don't run from the disc. However considering they went for the most popular titles first when deciding what to add for Backward Compatibility it will likely be the same set of games they offer for download.

In all likelihood the Xbox 1 games you download will run much better than those played from a disc. It will also be interesting to see if they add new features such as achievements and leaderboards.

Re:Question

[hidannik]

No. If it doesn't work in emulation, it doesn't work in emulation. Whether the original game data is read from a DVD-ROM or a hard drive makes no difference.

What could make a difference is if these games were being ported to the 360. My understanding is that they're not; rather, they're simply offering the same data just stored on the hard drive rather than on a DVD-ROM. I find the possibility that they would port the games unlikely, to say the least.

Hans

Re:Question

[rwven]

I'd REALLY like to see the oddworld games on 360, esp the most recent one. :-/

Re:Question

[zuvembi]

But will Barbie Horse Adventures be available to download?

Re:Question

[homer_ca]

In all likelyhood, the existing Xbox1 backward compatibility uses recompiled executables while reading graphics and game data off the original DVD. Look at the huge disk usage of the backward compatibility updates. Emulation shouldn't use so much space.

Re:Question

[77Punker]

Looks like it. I'm pretty sure Psychonauts doesn't work on 360 right now, and that's one of the titles that was announced. What I'd really like to see happen with this is to copy my existing Xbox games to my hard drive. I've got 105 free gigs for no reason at the moment!

Re:Question

[hidannik]

Munch's Oddysee is (mostly) compatible, Stranger's Wrath isn't. Munch's Oddysee can be had for as little as $5 USD, which is less than what Microsoft is charging for the downloadables.

So there's half your wish. Granted, the one that isn't compatible is the one you most wanted, but that could change in the next compatibility update.

Hans.

Re:Question

[hidannik]

Psychonauts was added to the compatibility list in the latest update. I know, I've played it on the 360.

Hans

Re:Question

[HTH NE1]

However considering they went for the most popular titles first when deciding what to add for Backward Compatibility Like Drake of the 99 Dragons? (OK, so maybe Drake was compatible only by consequence of making a more popular title compatible.)

IIRC, Psychonauts was not initially XBOX 360 compatible, first appearing on the December 12, 2006 list.

Re:Question

[twistedsymphony]

IIRC, Psychonauts was not initially XBOX 360 compatible, first appearing on the December 12, 2006 list.

That's true, it wasn't, though I think that's mainly because they went by sales figures to determine "popularity" and neglected the fact that while games like Psychonauts didn't have the enormous sales figures of some other games they had a large cult following that wanted to see BC available. It took them a while to realize it but I think MS has now understood that the popular games for BC aren't always the ones that sold well the first time around but the ones that held their fanbase years after the fact... like Psychonauts.

Re:Question

[donaldm]

I have the PS2 version of Psychonauts and it is a very unusual game. It IMHO is funny, has great graphics, challenging without being frustrating to play just to name a few traits so I can see why it got a large cult following. Unfortunately the game sort of slipped passed most people even though it got very good reviews.

The only problem I can see in downloading a game is "do you really own this game"? It is an interesting question to answer and equally applies to the PS3 the Wii and Xbox360 because I would be very surprised if you can back it up, so a hard disk failure (memory card in the case of the Wii) may mean the loss of games you have paid for. The loss of free demos is acceptable since you can download them again although this can be an annoyance. Personally when I buy something I consider I actually own it and in the case of console disks I am at liberty to trade or sell the product as long as I don't make copies and sell them. You cannot do this with software you pay for download although to be fair you do get it cheaper than if you brought the product on a disk.

Re:Question

[Fulg]

The only problem I can see in downloading a game is "do you really own this game"? [...] I would be very surprised if you can back it up, so a hard disk failure [...] may mean the loss of games you have paid for.

You don't have a 360, do you? :)

Unlike the Wii, Xbox Live (and PlayStation Store) purchases are associated to your account, not your console. This means you can re-download them if needed once you bought them. No need to fear a hardware failure.

The interesting question is, can you re-download the free-for-a-limited-time games? Since you didn't really pay for it, I don't know if that counts as a purchase (I suspect it does, but I have no evidence to back that up).

Re:Question

[twistedsymphony]

There are problems with the 360's system... don't get me wrong I own a 360 and I think it's an amazing console. Their method of content management is certainly better than the Wii's (I have no experience with the PS3 in that regard so I can't comment) but it's not perfect.

if your hardware goes belly up, you're absolutely right that the content is registered to your account and you can redownload it to new hardware free of charge... however since the content is locked to the original hardware on which it was purchased AND your Xbox Live account, when the original hardware is not available you need to be logged into Xbox Live to use the content and validate that you are in-fact that owner.

Let me propose a few scenarios of what might happen AFTER you replace the hardware:
1. Your ISP is having problems/your modem dies/whatever and you've got no internet connectivity.. sorry you can't use any of that content you purchased because the console can't validate that you own it by connecting to the Live servers... sorry.
2. You have a child/spouse/sibling/roommate with a separate account and rather than registering your credit card to their account to make online purchases you manage their spending by simply requiring that they ask you to make purchases through your account for them. Once you change the hardware the purchasing account needs to be signed in to use it. Meaning that the whole point of them not having free reign access to your credit card is lost, not to mention all of your profile stats could get trashed while it records you playing games that you really aren't, people think you're online when you're not, etc.

Then of course you still have the problem of not being able to sell the content or transfer ownership to a different account.

MS needs to implement 2 features IMO if they want to make their content management the best out there
1. Console content reset: basically a feature that with the purchasing console logged in to Xbox Live the user can choose to wipe all hardware based content ownership flags and alert the Xbox Live servers that the next time the content is downloaded it needs to lock to the new hardware. This would allow end users to easily re-download their content on new hardware, say if they were upgrading to an Elite or selling their old hardware, without the aforementioned problems. When MS receives a console requiring repair they can do the reset themselves ensuring that the content can easily be attached to the replacement hardware
2. A Trade System: basically you can trade MS points and Marketplace content with other XBL users. I imagine that both users setup a trade and put the content that they plan on giving into a virtual container on XBL once both users are happy and accept what the other user is offering the trade goes through. This would allow you to gift points or content to other accounts, or trade games for games, or trade games for points... MS probably will never do this since they want the money from game purchases, but if they did institute such a system it would go a long way to making their "points" feel like real money...

Re:Question

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes you can. The 360 determines if you "own" something not by if you paid for it before, but by if you've downloaded it. Anything you've downloaded before, even stuff you've deleted, has a check-mark by it's name in the listings, and will how up in your download history.

Re:Question

[donaldm]

Thanks for the reply. The reason I asked in the first place was my son was thinking of getting a second hand Xbox360 and it pays to be informed.

After the Wii

[BlowHole666]

Funny did't the Wii do this when it was originally released? Maybe Microsoft has found out that customers like the old games, and the new games. Will the games cost money? Can they be backed up to an eternal hard drive like the Wii (flash card)?

Re:After the Wii

[spyder913]

Yes, probably, definitely, doubtful.

Re:After the Wii

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny didn't the Xbox Live Arcade do this when it was originally released?

Re:After the Wii

[PixelScuba]

Sort of. Nintendo and the Wii found a way to charge us $5-$10 for games we purchased 15-20 years ago. I don't think the Wii network has Gamecube games available... which would be the most accurate comparison to what Live is doing here. Incidently, for the sake of honesty, it's actually CLOSER to what Sony has been doing with the Playstation Network and PS1/PS2 games.

Re:After the Wii

[Itninja]

Not really sure what an 'eternal hard drive' is, but the 360's hard drive is also eXternal and portable - though not as tiny and portable as the Wii flash card system. If I recall the Wii downloads aren't backup to the flash card, but moved there. But I am not certain of that....

Re:After the Wii

[Gravatron]

In Ninetndo's case, there is no backwards compatable way to play them, and many have been out of print for 15-20 years, making them difficult to find. On the ps3, so far all the playstation classic titles I can think of that are downloadable are ps1 titles, which at this point are abou a decade old themselves, and equally hard to find. What they need is to get more of the ps1 titles out that command those huge ebay prices, like Tobal, Klonoa, Einhander, etc. Also toss in some of the forgotten classics like threads of fate, Parasite eve, Fear Effect, R4, etc.

Main question I have on my mind for the xbox titles is since those were DVD games, won't size be an issue? Most xbox's only have 20 gigs of space, so thats what, 3-4 dvd games?

Re:After the Wii

[brkello]

Wow. I know there is a bit of Wii spin on this site...but now the Wii has eternal hard drives? That's pretty impressive.

Re:After the Wii

[Cheesey]

Can you backup Wii games to a memory card or hard drive? The T&C for the shop on my Wii says that games have to be saved in the built-in Flash memory, and are tied to that Wii. (Although I can redownload a game if I delete it.)

Re:After the Wii

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Nintendo and the Wii found a way to charge us $5-$10 for games we purchased 15-20 years ago."

That's odd. I've purchased games on the VC and never once have I been asked to show proof I've paid for it before. I think their proof-of-purchase system is busted!

Re:After the Wii

[Bert64]

But the Wii can also run gamecube games natively, without emulation...
All of the gamecube games should run on it, i don't know of any that don't.

Re:After the Wii

[LBt1st]

They can only be played from the internal memory. But yes, you can store games on SD Cards.

Re:After the Wii

[gravis777]

True, but the Wii does not have a built-in hard drive. I mean, there is a big difference between downloading an 8k NES rom to your 512 meg SD gard, and trying to download a 1 gig Gamecube game to your SD card. Nintendo could prbably get around this if they came up with some kind of streaming content download system, where you only download the part of the game you are in at the time (for example, with Zelda, the Windwaker, you would download the current dugeon you are in, along with textures and models of enemies).

Nah, I agree with Pixel, this is EXACTLY like what Sony is doing with the Playstation Network. OMG, Microsoft copied someone else's idea and tried to market it like its this new grand inovation they are giving people! Who would have thought that Microsoft would do such a thing!

Has potential

[superbus1929]

As awesome as this sounds, I still don't see anything that makes me want to run out and download anything. There's not one great title listed there, save maybe Burnout.

And how much are we talking for these games? Why download a game for $20 (sorry, 1600 MS Points) when I can run to Gamestop and pick it up for $8, maybe less?

Re:Has potential

[Harlockjds]

i read the price was going to be around 15$... personally i'd pay that rather than buy the old xbox disk so i have less clutter.

Most people liked Indigo Prophecy when it came out... and i know my wife will want the Crash game.

Re:Has potential

[EveryNickIsTaken]

Judging by your statements, you have clearly never played Psychonauts. Awesome Fkn Game. Here's hoping they eventually throw Chronicles of Riddick on there, as well.

Re:Has potential

[heatdeath]

Because you're lazy.

Never underestimate people's laziness. :)

Re:Has potential

[ciw42]

Agreed. I had the PC version, which I ordered directly from the US on release as I live in the UK and we had to wait six months or more for it. It's one of the few games that I found the time and enjoyed playing all the way through.

Re:Has potential

[Blakey Rat]

Fable was kind of a disappointment, but Psychonauts and Crimson Skies are both excellent games. I won't bother mentioning Halo, since I know, this being Slashdot, that everyone hates Halo. ;)

Re:Has potential

[dontthink]

I personally enjoyed Crimson Skies as well - I thought the controls were very solid, good environments, and (most importantly) was a lot of fun to play. I preferred it to both Psychonauts and Indigo Prophecy actually (though they are both great games also).

Re:Has potential

[Pojut]

You obviously never played Psychonauts. A pox on your house for overlooking one of the best made (but least recognized) games of all time.

Re:Has potential

[hibiki_r]

I'd rather buy the originals myself, if just for the wonders of Microsoft DRM. Did you know that, when your console RRODs, you will only be able to play your downloaded games when logged in to live? Nope, your wife/brother/roommate's account wont be able to play the game.

The original game works as long as the media works, wherever you want. Seems like a better deal to me.

Re:Has potential

[superbus1929]

Wrong. I love Psychonauts. But I also have a Gametap account and can play it whenever I want as it is. :)

Re:Has potential

[hidannik]

Deleting and re-downloading the game should fix that. Re-downloading is free. After my console RRODed, I did that, and it worked.

Also, it may be that that restriction has been fixed with the latest firmware update. Just a couple of weeks ago I transferred my 20G to a 120G. The transfer kit instructions say that transferred XLA games can only be played while online (just like the RROD issue). I disconnected my network cable after the transfer and had no trouble playing any of the transferred games - without having to re-download them.

Hans

Re:Has potential

[Anonymous Coward]

There's not one great title listed there, save maybe Burnout. -- superbus1929

Re:Has potential

[superbus1929]

Actually, I think Psychonauts is great, and I misspoke when I said only one "great" game. However, I can also play Psychonauts whenever I want on Gametap.

There are a few exclusive titles that should go on XBLA. Halo 1 and 2, definitely (even if they're more pricey). Ninja Gaiden/NG Black would be incredible. Panzer Dragoon Orta would likely send me into orgasm.

Re:Has potential

[Bert64]

When i wanted less clutter with my xbox games, i simply got the xbox chipped, installed a larger hd and put all the games i played on it. No clutter.
So your willing to wait several years after the games were released, and then pay more for the uncluttered version (which only offers you the same luxury pirated copies did a few years ago) than the original cluttered one costs? No wonder piracy rates are so high, the pirate versions really are better.

Re:Has potential

[Blakey Rat]

Did you know that, when your console RRODs, you will only be able to play your downloaded games when logged in to live? Nope, your wife/brother/roommate's account wont be able to play the game.

Their *account* won't, but you can have (almost 100% sure) multiple Live accounts on the same console. You can simply move your account to their console, re-download the games you've purchased, and play to your heart's content.

Re:Has potential

[LKM]

No great game? I thought the games selection was great! Halo, Psychonauts, Crimson Skies, Fable and Indigo Prophecy are all fan-favourites. I think they intentionally took games a few a-list titels as well as games that people might have missed last gen, but that have developed a cult following. Very well done, Microsoft.

Re:Has potential

[Raenex]

I personally enjoyed Crimson Skies as well - I thought the controls were very solid, good environments, and (most importantly) was a lot of fun to play. I agree about the environments, controls, and physics of the game. It was a pure joy to fly around in. Some of the missions, though, were extremely frustrating. I ended up quitting the game in the middle, on a very annoying cave mission that I just couldn't get out of without stalling.

If a game is going to have frustrating missions then it really needs to let you save the game at any point in the mission. I hate repeating the same old crap just to lose again at a critical juncture.

Carcassonne

[ShakaUVM]

Uh, Carcassonne is not a great board game. If you had a "hand" of available tiles to play, it would be a lot more fun, but when you have to draw and play a tile in the same round, and there's often only one possible play... then it's not really that great a game.

Re:Carcassonne

[mythosaz]

I'm forced to disagree. Carcassonne makes a GREAT 360 game. While you may like or dislike it for whatever reasons you may have, online play optimized by a computer scorekeeper and rule-manager is fantastic. No "mistakes" playing on a 360. You can't make an accident setting a follower on the wrong land, etc. It's good for a number of the reasons that UNO makes a good 360 game -- without the vastly higher luck factor in UNO.

I'm only upset that they're not giving something ELSE to those of us who bought Carcassonne already...

Re:Carcassonne

[Anonymous Coward]

lrn 2 strategize? kthxbai

Re:Carcassonne

[wcbarksdale]

Part of the skill of the game is planning for future tiles, e.g. setting up positions where your opponent has only bad plays if they draw certain tiles. The game would take around three or four times as long to play if you had several tiles to choose from each turn.

Re:Carcassonne

[MistrBlank]

Then you must be terrible at the game. There are so many features that have made it perfect since I started playing the actual version of the game (not the XBox360 version)

- It's one of few board games I've ever played that scaled well with number of people. The more people the more strategy there is to tile placement while a two-player game is still interesting.
- It is fast to start. There is no massive setup time. Drop the tiles into a pile, make sure they're all face down, shuffled up and start playing. It starts to get boring to go play a game that takes 30 minutes just to set up the board.
- It's a fast game. Over anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour.
- It's replayable, games will consistently be different.
- It's fast paced, player turns are done and over pretty quickly (unless you have someone that takes forever to realize the obvious play.
- There is ample room for "screwage", that is, when playing with some of your regular friends, games eventually deteriorate into being able to screw over the most people when in position not to win or if you just want to make someone else's game a living hell (such as that person winning too often).

I think the real problem is these games don't translate well to people playing video games. The whole point of a board game is the socialization factor which you eliminate almost completely playing online.

Re:Carcassonne

[grahamd0]

You're not that guy who told to me, "I won't farm if you don't farm.", are you? =)

Re:Carcassonne

[trdrstv]

I'm forced to disagree. Carcassonne makes a GREAT 360 game. While you may like or dislike it for whatever reasons you may have, online play optimized by a computer scorekeeper and rule-manager is fantastic. No "mistakes" playing on a 360. You can't make an accident setting a follower on the wrong land, etc. It's good for a number of the reasons that UNO makes a good 360 game -- without the vastly higher luck factor in UNO.

I'm only upset that they're not giving something ELSE to those of us who bought Carcassonne already...

I agree that the compter management streamlines everything wonderfully to make this my "preferred version" (I would like to add the Arc of the Covenant as a game option though) and I agree it would be nice to get a new expansion for it (preferably early before it's released for sale to guarantee you didn't already own it), They are at least giving us a larger online community to play against.

Re:Carcassonne

[iainl]

I'm a little bit miffed after spending 800 points on it, then the additional money on both expansions, yes. Although all of it has been worth every penny really; it's a brilliant game made even better by those extras.

But I thought I'd try out a Ranked Match for the very first time, last night - not a single opponent. So widening the pool of opposition sounds like a great idea.

Re:Carcassonne

[trdrstv]

Then you must be terrible at the game. There are so many features that have made it perfect since I started playing the actual version of the game (not the XBox360 version)

- It's one of few board games I've ever played that scaled well with number of people. The more people the more strategy there is to tile placement while a two-player game is still interesting.

- It is fast to start. There is no massive setup time. Drop the tiles into a pile, make sure they're all face down, shuffled up and start playing. It starts to get boring to go play a game that takes 30 minutes just to set up the board.

- It's a fast game. Over anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour.

- It's replayable, games will consistently be different.

- It's fast paced, player turns are done and over pretty quickly (unless you have someone that takes forever to realize the obvious play.

- There is ample room for "screwage", that is, when playing with some of your regular friends, games eventually deteriorate into being able to screw over the most people when in position not to win or if you just want to make someone else's game a living hell (such as that person winning too often).

I think the real problem is these games don't translate well to people playing video games. The whole point of a board game is the socialization factor which you eliminate almost completely playing online.

Do you realize all those benefits are present in the 360 game? There is also the benefit of the computer scoring everything which always took forever on the regular game. Also unlike Catan, there are no secret cards or tiles, so you can play 4 player locally and not miss the social aspect. I also like not having to constantly adjust the board since the land always expands in a weird way that never sits well on the table (and I can't use the floor as my cat would play with the peices).

Re:Carcassonne

[MistrBlank]

"Do you realize all those benefits are present in the 360 game? "

Certainly. My comments are in reference to the game as a game itself sucking as the parent indicated, not a comparison between physical and digital game.

And as for conversion to digital, not every board game is deserving of a video game. I know my friends and I loved to play Risk. We tried playing Risk online and in person via PS2, we could never get into it. It just isn't the same game, particularly because it pulls all the nuances of having the pieces out. I feel that many people feel the same people (just as I'm sure many people feel the video game is a boon).

Re:Carcassonne

[ShakaUVM]

Lol, apparently the message is that if you post that a board game that actually sucks, sucks, then you get modded down as a troll.

Take my advice people, and stay away from the game. I'm a board game geek and got this game and all the expansions, and returned it... only game in probably 10 years I've returned to the game store.

free carcassonne

[Anonymous Coward]

they should give me my xbox dollars back :_(

Correction:

[CaseM]

The summary is incorrect. This is XBox Live's 5th anniversary: Link

Re:Correction:

[Aladrin]

I think they meant XBL 360's second. All of the celebration centers around the 360, and not the original XBox, except that you can now buy some games that were originally for it.

Personally, while I think this is a great idea, I also think I can probably find the original discs at a local store cheaper. I'm tempted to go looking, just for the fun of it.

Re:Correction:

[CaseM]

It does seem like a great idea (the original XBox games). I honestly hope they're able to release their entire back catalog at some point.

I think...

[FataL187]

Microsoft should just offer them through the Wii Shop Channel. That way they can't be accused of stealing the idea. I just hope the red ring of death isn't contagious!! I wouldn't want my wii to get sick.

-FataL

Re:I think...

[Liquidrage]

You do realize MS has been selling older games on XBL for a long time right? I mean, you did know that before you wrote your stupid comment right? I'm sure it's not as if you're going to get into some arguement as to how selling a game for a console system one generation older is somehow novel yet selling them for a system 3 or 4 gens older is not.

Nintendo didn't invent selling older games via a download. Thanks.

Re:The Worst Console Library Ever? Ok...

[nuzak]

Speech recognition and text-to-speech software must be working really well these days. I applaud the way it gives the pre-literate access to online fora.

From the people who want you to pay to play online

[Ang31us]

I have bought almost every FPS that EPIC has put out since Unreal. Specifically, Unreal, Unreal 2, Unreal Tournament, and UT2004 (I did not like UT2003; lack of vehicles made the gameplay dated). All of those games had free Multiplayer, as it should be on the PC.

I picked up Gears of War for the PC last week only to find that it required me to PAY for a LIVE account to play it online after the first month and to download patches automagically. Is it just me, or does this stink like a dirty practice given past history on the PC and the upcoming Unreal 3 on the PC?

The bigger news in this

[nuzak]

This means they're pushing digital distribution of actual games. These aren't Microsoft titles, so they've actually gotten agreements with the publishers. Meaning there's really no necessary distinction between these titles and new ones. Finally, a chance to put a stake in the heart of GameStop and their skeezy incompetent chain of pawnshops. No, I would NOT like to preorder, bitch!

And is this why XBL fell over last night? I had to unplug the goddam network just to be able to sign in to my own profile.

Re:The bigger news in this

[tcolberg]

This is awesome, except I only have a 20GB HDD. MSFT needs to make it possible for consumers to get more than 1 or 2 of these games at a time. Sure they might do a permanent purchase system and allow swapping of purchased goods, like the Wii does. On the other hand, why don't they just come out with cheaper external storage that isn't crippled? I know the cost of 2.5'' drives are partially what's keeping the 120GB 360 HDD's cost so high, so why don't they come out with their own branded external 3.5'' USB2.0 drive?

Re:The bigger news in this

[nuzak]

I got the Elite, mostly because I wanted HDMI outputs, and it has a reasonably big drive, so I don't have the problem, but I definitely hear ya. The hardware hack to take the drive out is pretty trivial, but apparently the 360 will refuse to format it at a higher capacity no matter what you put in. Sony on the other hand, lets you throw any SATA drive in, and it'll use it all. Funny thing that, I like the PS3 more than the 360 in every respect ... except as a freakin game console.

Re:The bigger news in this

[rapett0]

I was wondering what happened. I was playing Texas Hold'Em last night and I was all in for 50K on one hand (a straight). Anyway, I noticed two others went all in, but while they were both clearly all in, there was maybe a 15 second pause. Then I saw one go from all in to fold. I was like ??!?!?!?

Then the other guy had something better (forget what) and won. But I was like wait, how he go from all in, to folding?

Re:The bigger news in this

[jollyreaper]

This means they're pushing digital distribution of actual games. These aren't Microsoft titles, so they've actually gotten agreements with the publishers. Meaning there's really no necessary distinction between these titles and new ones. Finally, a chance to put a stake in the heart of GameStop and their skeezy incompetent chain of pawnshops. No, I would NOT like to preorder, bitch! Two drawbacks: 1) you'll never be able to borrow your friend's game 2) you won't be able to resell it. Given that not everybody has fast internet service, we probably won't have to suffer the worst of this. We'll probably still see physical media alongside electronic distribution, the same way you can get a game off of Steam or in the physical store. While borrowing a friend's copy of a game is not theft in the normal people sense of the word, you can bet that the publishers would see it that way.

Personally, I still like the opportunity of finding good old games for a bargain price. I doubt that they'll drop a four year old game down to $10 or $15 on XBox Live the same way they would in the stores.

Re:The bigger news in this

[The-Bus]

The four year old games are $15 on Live. Considering some people have complained about finding older Xbox games in stores, this is not a bad idea. I don't mind downloading games for $5-$15. Even if I could resell them, I would only get a few dollars back. But unless I'm 100% sure I will keep a game forever, I am unlikely to spend $40-$60 on a game.

Yes, Warhawk for the PS3 looks interesting. No, I will not pay $40 for it.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[morari]

Is it a dirty practice? Of course. You have all of these console kiddies to thank for it as well. Don't worry, soon you'll have to pay for simple patches too! Plenty of developers (even on the PC) are already starting to deliberately leave content out of games so as to immediately sell it separately after release. Yay capitalism!

Meh

[zegota]

Pretty much all of these games are available ~10-15 on eBay or at Gamestop, and there you get the case and the instruction booklet (and something tangible that can't be taken away). Is there any xbox game that's spectacularly rare or pricy?

Re:Meh

[Farakin]

Rare? Try finding the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 2. The Stop wants $30 used for it.

Re:Meh

[halcyon1234]

I haven't yet found a copy of Fatal Frame II for less than $40 (used) for the XBox.

Re:Meh

[Itchyeyes]

You'll have a hard time finding rare games like Psychonauts, Beyond Good & Evil, Panzer Dragoon Orta, and Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath for less than $15.

Re:Meh

[nuzak]

> Rare? Try finding the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 2. The Stop wants $30 used for it.

I think I may still have my PS2 copy of it. I'll GIVE it to you if you want. I don't want it taking up space on my shelf. Better than DA1, but still an outstandingly awful game.

Re:The Worst Console Library Ever? Ok...

[Pojut]

So tell me, how exactly does someone get paid to write inane prose that sounds like it came from a mute mole-rat with a drop of liquid 'cid in each eye?

Indigo Prophecy

[log0n]

Pretty cool! I'd heard very good things about this game (I'm an adventure gamer rather than a FPS or MMO type) so I went looking for it. Couldn't find it for Xbox/360 in any of the local shops so ebay'd an import version (it's called Fahrenheit in the UK). I've been playing this on PC and it's a damn good game in spite of not really enjoying playing on a PC. I'll definitely get the download version if it's priced appropriately.

Re:Indigo Prophecy

[grahamd0]

There's a version here in the US called "Fahrenheit" as well, I believe it's the unrated version.

Re:Indigo Prophecy

[Cooldrew]

Great game, but VERY different. I found it here in NY for PS2 for under $10 US. If anyone here likes different, almost arty games, check it out. Phenomenal story, great voice acting, and some sweet action sequences.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Farakin]

Really, what does it cost...$5 a month? I bet you spend that much on tissues at the end of every Cold Case episode.

Re:The Worst Console Library Ever? Ok...

[UbuntuDupe]

I applaud the way it gives the pre-literate access to online fora.

And the blind...

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[hidannik]

Well, there is XFire as an alternative. Also Hamachi, if you want to play on a virtual LAN with your buds.

That won't get you automatic updates and patches, but as long as they can be downloaded from Epic's website etc., that makes it no worse than 98% of the other games out there.

Hans

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Anonymous Coward]

I picked up Gears of War for the PC last week only to find that it required me to PAY for a LIVE account to play it online after the first month and to download patches automagically.

You don't need to necessarily pay for a Live account just to play games online with friends. You can always use Kai XLink which supports the games for at least Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2, Gamecube, and PSP. The convenience factor of the Live service far outweights the price though, but if you don't like the idea of spending $50/year on a Live subscription, then there are always alternatives.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Ang31us]

I want them to get those $5/month through in-game ads, not out of my pocket.

Why should I give Microsoft $60/year after I paid Epic $50 for the game? I don't see why I should pay them to match me up with other gamers when we had services like Kali and Kahn back in the days of analog modems to do this for us.

I don't have a problem with a flat fee being charged for something like this, especially if it is built-in to the price of the game ($60 would have been a fine purchase price as well).

The recurring charge is what I have an issue with and this is also the reason why I have not played any of the MMORPGs like Everquest or World of Warcraft.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Ang31us]

Thank you sooo much! I checked the XFire website and it says that it supports Gears of War. I'm gonna try it tonight!!! :-)

Dear Microsoft,

[loafula]

I have three words for you: NINJA GAIDEN BLACK. Please, oh please, heed them.

Re:Dear Microsoft,

[hidannik]

I have two for you: already compatible. Also, $25 USD from GameStop. The bonus NES games won't play, but they wouldn't in the XLA version either.

Hans

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Vorpix]

i guess what you are paying for is a unified friends list, achievements, cross game messaging, matchmaking, and honestly, pretty good uptime, from my experiences. i agree, free would be nicer, but i've been pretty happy with Xbox Live and I'm pretty sure I'll renew once my current subscription is up.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Applekid]

Yay capitalism! Of course, "Yay capitalism" also includes your right to, oh, I don't know, NOT buy those games?

Don't like it? Don't buy it. They'll either change their ways or go out of business while other companies continue to provide free support and online play.

Microsoft wins twice

[SparkleMotion88]

1) Microsoft squeezes more money out of older games that people would otherwise buy used.
(and most importantly)
2) Microsoft sells more $180 hard drives to people who need space for all their new downloaded games.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Bert64]

Never played gears of war so i can't comment specifically on that game...
I can understand MMORPG's charging a subscription for online play, but in that case they shouldnt charge for the game media (how it would suck to buy something then be told you need to pay more to actually play it)...
Any game where it's the game that provides the entertainment, and not the online world it connects to really shouldn't charge for online play, and should make it possible for people to run their own servers. Lan-play is still very much commonplace here too.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Bert64]

None of which I really want...
I already have far too many friends lists, I already have far too many messaging systems, and we've had matchmaking systems like xlink, gamespy etc for a long time... Why should i pay for a copy of something I already had?
Not only that, but why should I use a service that's far (in terms of latency) from me, when the people i want to play against are right next to me (same isp, not same location).
I want the ability to arbitrarily setup private servers in locations of my choice where we can play online games. I used to run my own quake servers, and I often fire up a casual server to play games with friends.

Game Boy Player

[tepples]

All of the gamecube games should run on it, i don't know of any that don't. Game Boy Player doesn't, because there's no place to plug in the GBA cart reader.

Re:Game Boy Player

[trdrstv]

All of the gamecube games should run on it, i don't know of any that don't.

Game Boy Player doesn't, because there's no place to plug in the GBA cart reader.

Would you consider the Gameboy player a game? I always considered it a peripheral. If you REALLY enjoy changing the background patterns or scaling options I suppose you could make it a game...

Re:Game Boy Player

[tepples]

Would you consider the Gameboy player a game? I always considered it a peripheral. That's beside my point, which is: Where is the equivalent peripheral for Wii?

Re: Game Boy Player

[trdrstv]

Would you consider the Gameboy player a game? I always considered it a peripheral. That's beside my point, which is: Where is the equivalent peripheral for Wii?

Actually, that's not besides the point, it is the entire point. The Parent post stated:

"But the Wii can also run gamecube games natively, without emulation... All of the gamecube games should run on it, i don't know of any that don't."

Which is to say that all games should run on the Wii. Which is correct. I can't think of a single Gamecube game that will not run on the Wii (with a Gamecube controller and Memory card of course), but there are some peripherals that will not work, so they may not be as fully featured. There were only 3 peripherals that plugged into the bottom of the Gamecube (to my knowledge) and thus not compatible with the Wii; The Broadband adapter, Modem Adapter and The Gameboy player. The former 2 were replaced by the internal Wifi (or Lan adapter) for the Wii, and unfortunately they are not compatible with the handful of Gamecube games that depended on them.

You still CAN plan Phantasy Star "online" (just the offline content) and ultimately whether it could use the Wifi adapter to connect to the internet (it can't) is immaterial as the servers are down.

Currently there is no equivalent peripheral for Wii (which is a shame really), but we were discussing game compatibility not peripherals.

Re:Game Boy Player

[greedyturtle]

Windows CE...

That's not entirely a joke though, since Xbox can link up with your (windows-based) PC quite readily. They just don't have an actual hand held game device peripheral.

I don't think this is correct

[Itchyeyes]

"I picked up Gears of War for the PC last week only to find that it required me to PAY for a LIVE account to play it online"

This isn't correct. You can play online on the PC with GFW Live Silver (which is free). What you don't get with the free version are Microsoft's True Skill matchmaking services, cross platform play, and multiplayer achievements (details here). Still frustrating, but not the same thing.

Re:I don't think this is correct

[Ang31us]

Thanks for the info, Itchyeyes; I knew there was a silver membership to Live, but did not realize that it was free.

You're right, it is still frustrating, but I hope it works for me; will probably try it tonight.

FYI, the PC version of Gears of War does not support cross-platform play with the 360 version.

Because there's no Xboy

[tepples]

Microsoft should just offer them through the Wii Shop Channel. You do realize MS has been selling older games on XBL for a long time right? Right, but Microsoft doesn't make a handheld. (Pocket PC arguably does not count.) Microsoft does release games on Nintendo handhelds, such as such as Best of Entertainment Pack (GBC), Banjo-Pilot (GBA), and Diddy Kong Racing (DS). I'd imagine that Wii Shop Channel downloads (as opposed to Xbox Live downloads) might be WiiWare apps that act as a download server, allowing a DS to download and play the game.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[tepples]

Of course, "Yay capitalism" also includes your right to, oh, I don't know, NOT buy those games [that rely on real-world micropayments]?

Don't like it? Don't buy it. They'll either change their ways or go out of business

Or get outvoted when almost every publisher of proprietary video games uses these micropayments. What will you use then? Old Free games on a set-top Linux box?

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Blakey Rat]

You can play Gears online for free with a Xbox Live Silver account. It doesn't have all the features that a Gold account works, but your post is still wrong.

In any case, this is just nerd rage. If you don't want to pay for Xbox Live Gold, then don't pay for it. It's not some huge crime against humanity, or some huge debasement of your human rights, it's simply a game matching service with a yearly fee.

Of course, your nerd rage isn't even aimed in the right direction. If you have a real problem with it, take it up with Epic... Xbox Live doesn't have anything against a game using their own non-Live matching service. (Final Fantasy 11 does it, for example.)

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Applekid]

I still don't see what's forcing someone to go along with micropayments, really. If I like FPS games and this one doesn't allow online play without a fee, I'm not only not going to pay the fee, but likely not get the game, either. If every game Christmas '08 comes out requiring an online pay-to-play, then I won't be treating myself to any of them next year.

Like, people complain now that movies cost too much to go out and see. I haven't been to a movie in about a decade and don't see myself going to one anytime in the forseeable future. Obviously I've been outvoted on my complaints of cost and quality, but I make due.

If you really really hate buying extras for a game... don't?

I don't like it either, so, the day EVERY publisher gimps their games in the interest of collecting micropayments will be the day I hang my controllers for good.

The games that need Game Boy Player

[tepples]

Currently there is no equivalent peripheral for Wii (which is a shame really), but we were discussing game compatibility not peripherals. If you want to discuss it in terms of game compatibility, are any of the following games ported to Wii? Super Mario Land. Balloon Kid. Yoshi's Cookie. Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins. Kirby's Star Stacker. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (original or DX).

Re:The games that need Game Boy Player

[trdrstv]

If you want to discuss it in terms of game compatibility, are any of the following games ported to Wii? Super Mario Land. Balloon Kid. Yoshi's Cookie. Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins. Kirby's Star Stacker. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (original or DX).

Nope. And none of them were ported to Gamecube either.

Re:The games that need Game Boy Player

[tepples]

If you want to discuss it in terms of game compatibility, are any of the following games ported to Wii? Super Mario Land. Balloon Kid. Yoshi's Cookie. Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins. Kirby's Star Stacker. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening (original or DX). Nope. And none of them were ported to Gamecube either. But at least the GameCube can run them using the peripheral. Wii cannot. Nor can the DS without unlicensed expansion hardware.

I wish there were a way to do this with new games

[TheGeneration]

I wish there were a way to do this with new games. Right now I'm dealing with the stupidity of EBgames.com trying to get a game I preordered that was released yesterday...

I did pre-order on Super Mario Galaxy at EBGames.com at some point after I did the pre-order they attached a second item to my order, a cheap ass plastic "collectors coin" for the game that probably cost 1/100th of a cent to produce in China. Well, guess what, that coin is back ordered and as a result my game hasn't shipped. It's unbelievable.

I called their customer service and spent OVER two hours on hold waiting for somebody to pick up before I finally just hung up the phone. I can't believe they get away with this crap. Seriously.

I'm heading to Best Buy after work and I'm going to pick up a copy. It'd be nice if I could just download it directly from Nintendo.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Mr2001]

i guess what you are paying for is a unified friends list, achievements, cross game messaging, matchmaking, and honestly, pretty good uptime, from my experiences. Steam has a unified friends list, achievements, and cross game messaging for free. (Whether it has pretty good uptime is debatable.)

Matchmaking is nice, and if it were widely implemented it might be worth paying for, but as far as I can tell, it's only supported in two Xbox Live games: Halo 2 and Halo 3. Gears of War doesn't have it, Team Fortress 2 doesn't have it - they have the same old crappy "host a game" / "join a game" setup you can find on the PS2, where you're at the mercy of whoever wanted to play first for level choices and (more importantly) connection quality.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[morari]

I agree. Even more-so on films.

The problem is that one does not always know that here will be "micro transactions" to be made in the future. Say they begin charging a fee for bug fixes after release. You just bought a broken game and have no real recourse. I sure as heck wouldn't pay for a patch in any circumstance, but that would still leave me with a broken game and my money in the developers' pockets. I mean, geeze, I can't even find it in myself to justify paying a subscription fee for an MMO, and I certainly feel sorry for people that pay $20 for a new "Stuff Pack" every three months (between $30 expansion packs) to make their experience with The Sims 2 full.

And not to be disrespectful, but it annoys me to no ends when people shout about "speaking with their wallets". It allows one to maintain personal dignity, but doesn't change anything. We don't live in anything resembling a truly free market and if we did, the general public tends to be a mass of poorly informed consumers that make all of their decisions based off of obviously biased commercials. :P

hachie-machie!

[jollyreaper]

Jaws voice: We're gonna need a bigger drive!

That's cool and all but I think it's criminal that the default drive is 20gb and the 120 goes for $179. Last I priced drives, I could get 500gb for $99. I'm sure it's become even more ridiculous since then. Let's not even talk about the movie download service. Very, very cool, but with the size of the drives, impractical. Microsoft should just bite the bullet on that one and subsidize bigger drives. Hell, they should get TB-size drives and offer a trade-in program for people stuck with the smaller ones. They'll make their money back on this, especially since people are lazy and Xbox Live is easier to use than bittorrent. Yeah, yeah, I know those of us here don't find it difficult but I'm talking about the public at large, the people who are making iTunes such a success. The ridiculously small drives are strangling their potential here.

Buyer Beware

[dank zappingly]

Software emulation? YUCK. It's a little much to pay for imperfect versions of the games. Buy Psychonauts anyway if you haven't played it. Tim Schafer has yet to make a bad game. Here are the glitches as reported by Kotaku:

Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge: There is some minor flickering at the top of the screen that happens very rarely. The "Press A to Continue" message is missing when the host player leaves a multiplayer game. Additional content within the game (such as demos & trailers) are not supported and selecting those options may result in crashing the game (requiring a restart of the console)

Fable: There are some random bursts of audio static and some minor texture issues and a short hang up when removing tattoos. Additional content within the game (such as demos & trailers) are not supported and selecting those options may result in crashing the game (requiring a restart of the console)

Fuzion Frenzy: There are some minor frame rate issues. Additional content within the game (such as demos & trailers) are not supported and selecting those options may result in crashing the game (requiring a restart of the console)

Halo: There are some very mild frame rate drops.

Psychonauts: HDMI 720p is not supported for PAL users. Running the game in 720p over HDMI will result in the game locking up for PAL users. If you are using HDMI output, set the resolution to 1080i or 1080p (anything but 720p)

True true

[Anonymous Coward]

But you still have to register a Live account, something that found to be a real PITA. Ever since UT games have gotten worse and worse in that sense.

I outright gave up getting Halo 2 working with Live (I got Vista an everything). 'Can not connect' was the message. Sigh. But it was able to connect enough to download updates. shrugs.

Re:I wish there were a way to do this with new gam

[RogueyWon]

Right now, the only people moving this way are Sony. You'll note that Warhawk was available as a download purchase, as well as being sold in stores. Don't expect to ever see this feature for the Wii, though. The lack of a proper hard-drive means that you'll never see new commercial-quality games as downloads.

My 360 HD is too small :-(

[LKM]

Damn. And I just bought the 20-gig 360. Where am I going to store these games? The 20-gig 360 + 120 gig HD costs as much as the 120-gig 360. Why is that stupid HD so expensive?

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[bateleur]

There's also the fact that the games market does not feature pure competition. For example, if I am trying to choose between two games and I like the gameplay of Game A better but it requires a subscription fee for online play which Game B doesn't then I can't win. I'm still free to buy or not buy each product. However, in order to protest against the online play subscription I then have to buy Game B (or nothing) instead. This sends a misleading signal to the market. Ideally what I want is to be able to buy a version of Game A for a higher fixed cost but no monthly fee, but such a product is not offered by anyone.

Re:I wish there were a way to do this with new gam

[HalAtWork]

I did get the coin. But you know what? I was pissed that they had to turn away gamers that did not reserve their copy while I had to collect such a coin, a coin in a box the size of a DVD case. You know, they could have easily shipped a ton of more copies of the game instead of shipping these trinkets. No, I didn't mind getting one, but I did mind seeing a lot of people disappointed for no reason. I know if I didn't pre-order the game I would have been with them. That's pretty crap.

P.S. Holy crap is Mario Galaxy a good game.

Re:I wish there were a way to do this with new gam

[Anonymous Coward]

You know the Wii has a slot for SD cards, right? You could easily put a bunch of games on one.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Ang31us]

Nerd rage...I had never heard of it before, but I LOVE IT! ;-) Consider it stolen ;-)

I do think my "nerd rage" is pointed in the right direction -- right at Microsoft. They built the Live service using a subscription model to gain a recurring revenue stream from gamers. The services provided through a Live Gold subscription are available for free from other vendors, as pointed out earlier in this discussion thread.

In general, I assume that Microsoft is using its desktop OS monopoly as leverage with game developers to adopt its Live service. I also see Halo 2 (a DirectX 9 game) being Vista-only as an attempt to propagate their desktop OS monopoly into the next generation of desktop OSes. In the specific case of Gears of War, I think that because it is originally an XBox 360 game, they simply ported the Live support instead of implementing game server functionality and an in-game browser -- since laziness is one of the virtues of being a programmer, I do not aim my rage at EPIC or the company they partnered with to port GOW to the PC.

I honestly have no idea how community mods for Gears of War will work on the PC through the Live service...but maybe I'll find out when I try Live Silver tonight on my PC.

I have no intention of redeeming the free month of Gold service that MS included in the GOW game box. They're like a crack dealer, giving away the first dose so you will keep paying for it the rest of your life. As far as I am concerned, every dollar that goes to Microsoft is a dollar used to try to kill Linux and the larger open-source movement.

Re:I wish there were a way to do this with new gam

[TheGeneration]

I went to Best Buy last night and picked up a copy. They seemed to have a ton of them. The only thing holding up my pre-order was that stupid coin. I know some people like collecting this sort of thing, but not me. Whenever I get these "collectibles" I look at my apartment and think "where is this going to go?" and unless there is a spot specifically for it I decide that it would best go into the garbage. Since these coins were produced in China for 1/100th of a penny each I'm sure they are only made of the finest materials (gold? Silver? or maybe plastic with lead paint.)

P.S. man it really is a fun fun game. I just finished he first 5 galaxies last night. FUN! So far this is probably my favorite Mario game.

RE:I wish there were a way to do this with new gam

[trdrstv]

Right now, the only people moving this way are Sony. You'll note that Warhawk was available as a download purchase, as well as being sold in stores. Don't expect to ever see this feature for the Wii, though. The lack of a proper hard-drive means that you'll never see new commercial-quality games as downloads.

Yes, but I think Warhawk symbolizes how dumb corporations are in trying to pursue a new revenue model. The Downloaded version of the game (for $40 mind you) does not support local multiplayer, since in Sony's infinite wisdom "they did not pay for the right to play that game", It doesn't matter if they are sub accounts under the master that did buy them, they still can't play. So either you can pay $60 for a version with a bluetooth headset (and local multiplayer, and resellability, or the ability to loan it to friends), or a $40 version without the headset, or a $40 version that is locked to both the PS3 and the user?

The Wii could support USB hard drives, or SDHC cards (which are pin compatible with SD cards and offer sizes over 2 gig) with a firmware update so it is completely possible. Remember, it wasn't too long ago that (nearly all) Gamecube games shipped in 1.5 gig mini DVD's. Originally this was reguarded mearly as "wishful thinking" by the fan base, but with Final Fantasy Christal Chronicles was announced as a WiiWare title , something along these lines seems imminent.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Blakey Rat]

Nerd rage...I had never heard of it before, but I LOVE IT! ;-) Consider it stolen ;-)

Adam Carolla used this phrase pretty often to describe the nerds who get upset and rant, foamy-mouthed, because some bit part was cut out of the LoTR movies, or something equally stupid and pointless. As a recent example, Variety recently received a dose of nerd rage after accidentally writing that Spock's mom was vulcan and not human. No normal person gives half a crap.

They built the Live service using a subscription model to gain a recurring revenue stream from gamers. The services provided through a Live Gold subscription are available for free from other vendors, as pointed out earlier in this discussion thread.

Not all in the same place. There is a lot of advantage to the fact that all the services offered are integrated together, which is something you don't normally see on PC games. Wouldn't it be great if you could start up Battlefield: 2142 and see a notice that your buddies are all playing WOW? Right now that service doesn't exist for games other than Xbox Live (and in a more limited form on Steam.)

Besides, I think the fee does a lot of discourage griefers from trying to abuse the system. When you know it's at least $50 to re-establish an account, you're not going to try cheats as often.

In general, I assume that Microsoft is using its desktop OS monopoly as leverage with game developers to adopt its Live service.

Ok.

I also see Halo 2 (a DirectX 9 game) being Vista-only as an attempt to propagate their desktop OS monopoly into the next generation of desktop OSes.

Ok.

In the specific case of Gears of War, I think that because it is originally an XBox 360 game, they simply ported the Live support instead of implementing game server functionality and an in-game browser -- since laziness is one of the virtues of being a programmer, I do not aim my rage at EPIC or the company they partnered with to port GOW to the PC.

So it's ok that Epic did it the "wrong way" because the "wrong way" is lazier than doing it the right way? If that's really how you feel, ok, but it seems dumb to me.

I honestly have no idea how community mods for Gears of War will work on the PC through the Live service...but maybe I'll find out when I try Live Silver tonight on my PC.

I can't help you here. I only play Xbox 360 games, except WOW. (One of the few PC games that works without being hugely buggy, or installing shit all over my system, or opening up security holes, or disabling virtual CD software, or any other shit that PC games all do and PC gamers seem to tolerate for some reason.)

As far as I am concerned, every dollar that goes to Microsoft is a dollar used to try to kill Linux and the larger open-source movement.

I guess you save on wallpaper when your entire world is so black and white.

But seriously, if you're foaming at the mouth with anger at this whole thing, why'd you even buy Gears of War? I think EA produces crappy products (see: Battlefield: 2142 as mentioned above) and participates in monopolistic practices (like gaining exclusive sports licenses), so I do this insane, crazy thing: I don't buy EA games. AMAZING!

You're never going to change the world by buying from Microsoft while telling Microsoft they should change their business practices-- you bought the game! Demonstrably their business practices work just fine.

Re:I wish there were a way to do this with new gam

[HalAtWork]

Hmm well the people that turned away gamers were Gamestop... maybe they just don`t care about launch game sales (enough to order copies for everyone) and just care about getting the reserve fee from gamers to collect interest over time.

So far I'm up to the junk yard galaxy and I'm loving every second! I'm glad this is one of those Mario games where you just want to play the first level over and over because it's so much fun. I also can't believe the different things you can do to access different areas and secrets. I've been reading reviews that say that Mario Galaxy is not really innovative in the gameplay area, and are they ever wrong... I'm very happy about the graphics too!

Re:I wish there were a way to do this with new gam

[TheGeneration]

Well the game is basically the same as Super Mario Sunshine's bonus maps, which were the funnest part of that game. This game is just an entire game of those bonus maps.

Re:From the people who want you to pay to play onl

[Ang31us]

Thanks for your very thoughtful post.

I agree that using Microsoft's Live service is the wrong way to do multiplayer gaming on the PC and I do excuse EPIC and the partner who ported the game, because it was originally implemented to use Xbox Live on the 360. If I were a game developer making games for the 360, I would definitely use XBL because the 360 is a closed platform and XBL is where multiplayer gaming is at on that system. Given that GOW on the PC is a port of the 360 game, EPIC gets a free pass from me on the PC port using Live.

On the other hand, if EPIC used Live for Unreal 3 on the PC, I would direct my "nerd rage" at them because Unreal is a PC (open platform) game and has no business being on Live.

I bought Gears of War to support EPIC, not Microsoft. My cousin got a 360 for his birthday, I played it on his system, and really had to resist the urge to buy a 360 of my own just for GOW. When I found out that it was being released for the PC, I decided to wait for its release and buy it. It's not like I was buying Microsoft's Flight Simulator or Age of Empires, right? Then again, now that I look at the Wikipedia article, Microsoft Game Studios is the publisher, so they're probably getting a healthy chunk of my $$$...bah! You're right -- my urge to own and play this great game caused me to miss that when I was making my purchasing decision.

I try to stay away from EA as well, but my brother loves to play Madden on the Wii. He bought me Madden 2007 for Christmas last year and Madden 2008 for my birthday this year so that we could play against each-other online for free on the Wii as it should be ;-) .