iPhone Signal Strength Problems In the UK

An anonymous reader writes "British iPhone users, who bought the Apple phones when they went on sale in England on Nov. 9, are reporting persistent problems with signal strength on O2, the UK's only iPhone service provider. The complaints started only 2 days later. InfoWeek blogger Alex Wolfe says there's a debate as to whether O2 or the iPhone is at fault; it appears to be the handset, which is unusual since US users haven't reported similar problems. Some 02 customers report that getting a replacement phone fixes things; others have had to do a software restore back to version 1.1.2 of the iPhone software."

Comments

Ok. So?

[427_ci_505]

A company (don't know which one) has made / is serving a product that has some problems. These problems should be fixed soon, if the company (companies) knows what's good for it (them). In the meantime, nothing too terrible has happened as a result. This is newsworthy why?

signal strength

[thrillseeker]

FWIW, my sister has an iPhone and tells me that the reception is noticeably worse than her previous phone (a Razor, I think).

Re:signal strength

[Osty]

FWIW, my sister has an iPhone and tells me that the reception is noticeably worse than her previous phone (a Razor, I think).

As long as we're going with anecdotal evidence, I switched from a Razor to an iPhone a couple weeks ago and haven't noticed any signal strength issues.

Re:signal strength

[desotoix]

I had a considerable drop in signal strength moving from a RAZR to the iPhone. The typical difference was 2 bars, which was awful at my house since I only got 2 bars there to begin with. The first thing they had me do was get a new SIM card from at&t, but that didn't really help. Later, when part of the touch screen stopped responding, I got a replacement phone from Apple and the new phone got a much stronger signal.

Re:signal strength

[tgd]

Same here. My T616 on ATT works poorly, but generally works in my house. My iPhone is unusuable in my house.

I don't think that should be a surprise -- every phone is a little different. iPhone is definitely on the "bad" end of the reception spectrum. Its bad enough that I debated most of the fourteen days I could return it if I actually wanted to return it. I looked long and hard at the Verizon Voyager but nothing else really compares with the iPhone.

I can pull the SIM out of the iPhone (which has no signal in this room) and pop it in the HTC Touch I have sitting here, and get at least one bar.

Re:signal strength

[tgd]

I'm not really sure why you're getting moderated insightful... what was your signal before? There's a huge range of levels that would still show up as full strength. You could easily get a 10db drop in the signal and still show full strength without knowing it.

Did you have spotty reception? Thats where you're going to notice a change is sensitivity.

Re:signal strength

[CastrTroy]

The iPhone is great as a music player, but sucks as a phone, why not just get an iPod touch, and get a phone that actually gets good reception. I don't get reception at my house sounds like a pretty bad situation. Unless that's how you like it. If you live way out in the country, I could see that being acceptable. But anybody living in the city or the suburbs should not have to deal with not getting a signal.

Re:signal strength

[HairyCanary]

I'm not really sure why you're getting moderated insightful...

Because he was pointing out that anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Re:signal strength

[jarich]

+1 (I have no mod points at the moment.)

My iPhone drops calls and has tons of static in areas my old junk phone did fine in... It's a great enough phone, I'm keeping it :) but it would be very nice to have better (read: decent) reception.

Re:signal strength

[OECD]

FWIW, my sister has an iPhone and tells me that the reception is noticeably worse than her previous phone (a Razor, I think).

FWIW, I moved from an old cheap Motorola on Verizon to an iPhone, and I've noticed that the speaker is worse on the iPhone. On the upside, the mic seems to be better, so I can't hear people as well as I used to, but they can hear me better. I'm wondering if the UK users aren't interpreting that as a signal-strength problem.

Re:signal strength

[novakyu]

Ah, but you see, as a people we rely far more on anecdotal evidences than you might think.

If we agree that anecdotal evidences are entirely worthless, what's Amazon, Newegg, Buy.com, etc, etc. doing putting up "Customer Reviews"? What about "Resellerratings"? Or even reports by Better Business Bureau, or Consumerist, or Consumer reports? Unless it's a designed-to-be-fair poll (which almost all online polls aren't) of statistically significant numbers (I usually go with 1000, because that gives nice 3% margin of error, assuming no other sources (such as sampling bias, wrong question wording, etc.) than random sampling error), it's little better than anecdotal evidences---a couple people lying, a company astroturfing will be enough to skew the results way over to the other side.

But, such quality results are hard to come by (I daresay even in clinical studies, let alone psychology survey, such quality is hard to obtain), so if you've ever listened to anyone you don't know personally (and somehow can trust his/her expertise), you have let an anecdotal evidence influence your judgment. Does that mean you are stupid? Well, not any more than me, the president (of U.S., of Canada, prime minister of U.K., anybody important, really), or the vast majority of rational population.

In fact, anyone dismissing an anecdotal evidence just because it's an anecdotal evidence (rather than, say, it can be shown to be false experimentally, or there is some logical fallacy) is simply repeating the folly of Descartes (of overt doubt). Except of course, unlike Descartes, he has absolutely no originality and a hindsight of several centuries, which should prevent all but utter fools from falling into such mistake.

Re:signal strength

[tlhIngan]

I'm not really sure why you're getting moderated insightful... what was your signal before? There's a huge range of levels that would still show up as full strength. You could easily get a 10db drop in the signal and still show full strength without knowing it.

Actually, my iPhone gets much better reception than my old phone (SE P900). I can often still get a tiny bit of signal in tunnels and the link, where none existed before (and it manages to still do EDGE/GPRS, slowly, while before, I'd lose all connectivity).

But yeah, you cannot go by the "bars" of signal. Carriers often make demands that "five bars means a signal of at least -100dbm" or something to that extent (I've seen such requirements... the number of bars drops quickly beyond that). Just FYI, most WiFi cards cannot pick up a signal that low (and definitely not a top speed).

Of course, though, the iPhone is Apple's design, so Apple's "bars" may be different than AT&T's "bars". I laughed when I saw the Cingular (now AT&T) ads that said "more bars in more places". The easy way to do that is to just say "5 bars is no longer -70dbm, it's -90dbm" in the carrier certification requirements.

Of course, the flip side is, my old phone could just be generally crappy in reception. I don't know, since I rarely compare it with other phones from the same carrier...

Re:signal strength

[dgatwood]

Anecdotally, my iPhone does not drop out in places where my other phone (Sony Ericsson T616) did with consistency. However, this is in the U.S. (850 MHz), so this isn't necessarily an indicator of how the 1800 MHz band will behave. That's what makes most of the iPhone's anecdotal evidence worthless---the fact that the majority is from a different country at a very different frequency. :-)

And on the flip side, someone with the very same model of Sony Ericsson phone reports the exact opposite elsewhere in this thread.

Dunno.

Re:signal strength

[Anonymous Coward]

Because he was pointing out that anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Oh, better tell all the doctors to throw out those "case report" thingies then.

Re:signal strength

[tsa]

Very good point. That way you can also get a phone with a provider you chose.

Re:signal strength

[dwater]

Actually, he simply presented opposing anecdotal evidence, which is equally as valuable.

Personall, I think both are interesting, and of greater than zero worth.

Re:signal strength

[Anonymous Coward]

That's possibly the stupidest thing I've ever read on Slashdot. You admit the iPhone gets shitty reception, and isn't even usable in your own house. Yet despite the fact that there are better phones available to you, you're still going with the iPhone?

So, basically, you don't even want a phone, you just want to look trendy?

Re:signal strength

[Anonymous Coward]

That's obviously normal: if your received signal strength is low, the cell-phone will try to adapt and will consequently output more power. So, if people at Apple designed a crap antenna, this is an immediate logical result.

Re:signal strength

[Anonymous Coward]

"anyone dismissing an anecdotal evidence just because it's an anecdotal evidence (rather than, say, it can be shown to be false experimentally, or there is some logical fallacy) is simply repeating the folly of Descartes (of overt doubt)."

Or of course, being a scientist. Slashdot being what it is, I'd go for this solution....

Re:signal strength

[Trinn]

Interestingly, according to the values from the field test app, this sort of thing used to be the case, somewhere around -90dBm or worse was 5 bars, and it dropped off fast after that. In a recent software update they pushed it up to around -70 which is your more common number, and makes the signal display so much more useful. I'm not sure if this was 1.1.1 or 1.1.2, I think 1.1.2.

Re:signal strength

[dredre123]

I agree completely (also, I missmoderated)

Re:signal strength

[LKM]

Using an iPhone in Switzerland. Switched from a P990i. No decrease in signal strength.

Re:signal strength

[scorp888]

I get signal with a P990i, a P800 a HTC Tytn, and a Nokia 6230i.

The signal on the Iphone goes from No signal to Full and back again regularly, none of the other phones exhibit this problem.

Re:signal strength

[svnt]

so if you've ever listened to anyone you don't know personally (and somehow can trust his/her expertise), you have let an anecdotal evidence influence your judgment

Stepping away from the strictly anecdotal argument, I think the biggest difference between Slashdot and your example is that it doesn't make financial sense for a company to pay someone to talk to groups of people at a bar. On the other hand, it can be very profitable to put "anecdotal" evidence where tens of thousands of people will run across it.

different freqs?

[taniwha]

GSM in the US runs on a different frequency than most of the rest of the world - could be the phone is optimised for the US freqs ... there may be other stuff - I know when I visit the US my phone's battery lasts about 1/3 as long as elsewhere - don't know whether the US environment is noisier and needs the phones to shout louder or it's just not as efficient at that freq

Re:different freqs?

[microcars]

or there are not enough towers in the US.
the further away from a cell tower you are, the more power is required.
Everyone in the US wants better signal strength but they don't want any more "unsightly" cell towers.
There are more cell towers per sq mile in the UK I bet. So you use less power.

last stat is totally made up...

Re:different freqs?

[Bert64]

The US is also much bigger, and therefore harder for cellphone operators to provide adequate coverage... One way of doing this is to boost the power.
The UK is much smaller, but quite hilly...
Cellphone coverage in the netherlands is very good because the country is small, densely populated and flat.

Re:different freqs?

[jargon82]

I suspect it's not just not wanting unsightly cell towers. Given that the UK pop density is 246 per square km and the US is 31 per square km,(accodring to wikipedia) it seems the folks in the US are just a tad bit more spread out...

Re:different freqs?

[djikster]

I live in the US, and my phone also works in Europe. I noticed absolutely no difference in battery life when traveling! I believe it may have to do with the region you went to...

Re:different freqs?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be amazed if your last stat was wrong though ;-)

Cities have buildings which get in the way, so they aren't always better.

Bad example: there's a cell tower on top of the computing building at my university in central London. Signal goes from zero to full every 30cm or something in the computer labs (6 stories below). If you get a call stay very still! (or run very quickly out of the labs, which is what most people do.) This might not be so much because of the building but because of the physics department above the computer labs...

Re:different freqs?

[xaxa]

A better comparison would be the density of cell towers in New York vs. London, for instance. I have no idea what it would be, but I get signal almost everywhere in London (if I have no signal, I'm almost certainly in a basement). Not with an iPhone, I have a Motorola, but anyway... what about other metropoli?

Re:different freqs?

[jargon82]

I've never had signal problems in NYC or the Philadelphia metro area, with the exception of certain large datacenters and as you said, basements. I don't have an iphone though, either, so I don't know how this would fare there.

Re:different freqs?

[taniwha]

I visit the US a lot (5 times this year) and the issue seems relatively consistant across a wide range of areas on the West Coast (largely the SF Bay Area and Seattle) - my phone lasts 2 days in the US, a week here in NZ - AT&T/Cingular coverage does seem spotty in places

Re:different freqs?

[arth1]

That's a "truth with modifications". If you subtract the areas in the US where there's no GSM coverage, i.e. most of the country, you get a GSM population density that's higher.

One difference is that in the US, the market is largely a profit-driven free-for-all, where the actors can choose to only put towers where it will be profitable to do so. That means the big cities, their suburbs, and the highways between them. In most of Europe, there's coverage requirements to get a license to operate (and consumers that historically have bought things based also on quality and not features-for-the-price alone).

Another difference is that in Europe there's not a near 100% lock-in for phones to a certain provider, like in the US. Most people in the US aren't even aware that phones don't have to be locked to a provider. Some have heard of unlocking of phone, but even of those, almost none know that you can get phones that weren't unlocked, but never locked in the first place.
In Europe, if a provider hasn't given a good enough service or coverage, you have historically been able to take your phone elsewhere and get a new plan for your existing phone. The lock-in of the iPhone to a single provider is going to be a lesson in how good the "old" system was, and make European users understand the terrible situation US users have, and why so few Americans have cell phones.

Re:different freqs?

[mikael]

There are quite a wide variety of GSM frequencies

Which network offers you the best quality of signal depends on where you are in each city, and what materials the building you are in is constructed from.

Mobile handsets can adjust the strength of signal they need to transmit, in order for the tower to receive a reliable signal. That might explain the difference in battery lifetime. Perhaps the cell towers are more spread apart. This would depend on population density.

Re:different freqs?

[jellomizer]

Yes that is an issue, Also why a lot of "This is done in Europe, but not in America" comes into play. A big Infrastructure change in Europe is a Monumental Infrastructure change in the US. Many Laws that work in Europe Do Not work in the United States the same way. While are cultures are similar, The United States and European Countries are actually quite different in a lot of major ways. Just like when you look at the Political Map of the United States Most of the Blue States are in states with higher density and the Red States are states with lower density. Which shows you that population density is a major factor in many aspects. City People need government to survive, because the government needs to manage the resources. Country People need the government to stay away because the government gets in their way because they are self reliant. City Water and Sewer vs. having a well and Sepic system, One you need tight controls to keep safe, The other you need less rules and controls to stay affordable.

Re:different freqs?

[Anonymous Coward]

but anyway... what about other metropoli?

Nobody knowi for sure, but it appeari that in many placi the signal tendi to show weaknii.

Re:different freqs?

[CastrTroy]

When did quality cease to be a feature?

Re:different freqs?

[CastrTroy]

You probably didn't stay in the cities, or did a lot of travelling. In Canada, between the cities, there's often no digital coverage, just old fashioned analog. This really eats up your battery power when travelling. I imagine the same is true in the US, where there are very large cities, with almost nothing in between.

Re:different freqs?

[Dunbal]

When did quality cease to be a feature?

      It certainly never was a feature in the software world. That was just "luck".

Re:different freqs?

[Movi]

Another thing that I would think is worthy of pointing out is that the European iPhones have a new version of the baseband radio. What most people concentrate is that this baseband doesn't have the bug that allowed people to unlock their iPhones. But I wonder if this one also differs in reception quality. Does anyone have any knowledge of any change in capabilities in the new baseband module?

Re:different freqs?

[Firehed]

Quite spotty. I've got a spot about a two-inch cube that gets three to four bars (of five) worth of signal in my house, where the rest of the house is one bar or no signal (likewise for most of outside, except for a small patch at the bottom of the driveway). A couple miles from my house, it's 4-5 bars consistently.

iPhone/AT&T just outside of Nashua, NH, for what it's worth. The situation was the same on Verizon where I last lived (Williston, VT - where, for the record, the iPhone works perfectly).

Re:different freqs?

[Moridineas]

That's a "truth with modifications". If you subtract the areas in the US where there's no GSM coverage, i.e. most of the country, you get a GSM population density that's higher. Wow wow, that sounds nuts to me? Where did you get the idea that in "most of the country" there's no GSM coverage? I'd love to see the statistics about that.. I don't suppose you have any? Here's the coverage map for ATT btw http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/. I guess it's possible that including Alaska covered vs uncovered could be CLOSE ... but I'm not sure. If you count any cell coverage, (CDMA, smaller companies, etc) you're dead wrong.

One difference is that in the US, the market is largely a profit-driven free-for-all, where the actors can choose to only put towers where it will be profitable to do so. That means the big cities, their suburbs, and the highways between them. In most of Europe, there's coverage requirements to get a license to operate (and consumers that historically have bought things based also on quality and not features-for-the-price alone). I'm suddenly forced to realize I've been blinded by the economic prosperity of the US my entire life! You're right, the European way IS best! I--and my fellow Americans--are living in filth and squalor, and even worse--we have subpar cellphone plans! I hope we can get arrogant attitudes along with our conversion to the European way ;-) I apologize for the poor attempt at humor, but your tone is so typical of anti-American arrogance--and of all things about cell phones! (it's always the cell phone conversations that brings it out the most)

Another difference is that in Europe there's not a near 100% lock-in for phones to a certain provider, like in the US. Most people in the US aren't even aware that phones don't have to be locked to a provider. Some have heard of unlocking of phone, but even of those, almost none know that you can get phones that weren't unlocked, but never locked in the first place. Probably true. At my local mall there's a LARGE kiosk that advertises and sells unlocked phones from around the world...so I'm not sure how true your supposition is overall.

In Europe, if a provider hasn't given a good enough service or coverage, you have historically been able to take your phone elsewhere and get a new plan for your existing phone. The lock-in of the iPhone to a single provider is going to be a lesson in how good the "old" system was, and make European users understand the terrible situation US users have, and why so few Americans have cell phones. I was able to cancel my AT&T contract ~5 years ago when I had no poor in my house. Can't comment on the practice more generally.

"So few American have cell phones" ... I gotta see your statistics on this, the only people I know that don't have phones are my 85-90 year old grandparents. Do you really believe this bull? Just what do Europeans believe about us?! most of the US doesn't have coverage and most people don't have cellphones? Gotta say, when you're so wrong about the basic facts upon which you make your slander, it really makes me take the rest of your post less seriously. 82% of Americans Own Cell Phones

Re:different freqs?

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone is a quadband phone, but if the iPhone uses only one antenna for 900MHz and 950MHz (or 1800MHz and 1900MHz respectively), the antenna can favor the American bands (950 and 1900) or the European bands (900 and 1800) or something in between. Either way, it's not going to get as good reception everywhere as a phone with an antenna which is precisely tuned to the bands of the country where it's going to be used. Battery time and reception quality both depend more strongly on obstacles and the average distance to the cell tower, so any anecdotal information that a particular phone gets longer standby here or there is useless. Nevertheless, the iPhone was probably developed primarily for the American market, so I'd guess that it's antenna is not as well tuned to European frequencies as antennas of phones which are built primarily for the European market.

Re:different freqs?

[eharvill]

visit the US a lot (5 times this year) and the issue seems relatively consistant across a wide range of areas on the West Coast (largely the SF Bay Area and Seattle) - my phone lasts 2 days in the US, a week here in NZ - AT&T/Cingular coverage does seem spotty in places I wonder if phones/devices charge differently on 110 vs 220?

If you are receiving poor coverage, the fact that the phone is constantly searching for a signal/reconnecting to the network will drain a battery pretty quickly as well. This happens to me a lot when I do work in a data center that has little to no coverage and my phone is constantly reconnecting to the network and kills my battery in less than a day.

Re:different freqs?

[dgatwood]

It is probably caused by some combination of these two things:

1. Transmit power for 1800/1900 (probably what is in use in NZ) is half the wattage allowed for the 850 band in the U.S. The 850 MHz allows for significantly greater tower spacing at a cost in cell phone life. You can't get away with that in the 1900 MHz band because the signal doesn't carry as well. AT&T uses 850 heavily, for obvious reasons, though in California, you will likely find many 850 MHz towers at much closer spacing and at reduced power to minimize the cell's overall coverage footprint to reduce the collisions inherent in high density environments with limited spectrum. You shouldn't see your cell shouting at anywhere near maximum output, though, so I sort of doubt this has that much to do with the difference, though I suppose it might be a factor.

2. GSM phones can use different encodings depending on signal strength, available bandwidth, the preference of the tower, and the intersection of modes supported by both your phone and the tower. It is much more likely that the phone is operating in one of the lower power modes in NZ. Half rate codec draws significantly less power than the other codecs, and EFR draws slightly more. IIRC, in California, AT&T's towers prefer FR if the phone supports it, because the call quality sounds better and they have enough tower density to handle it. In NZ, they may be using HR, which by itself can make a huge difference in talk time because the cell phone is essentially "talking" to the tower during only half as many time slots.

Re:different freqs?

[mcbridematt]

Transmit power for 1800/1900 (probably what is in use in NZ)

Actually, it would be 900MHz first. However, 1800MHz fill spectrum is probably utilitized in NZ a lot. In Australia theres plenty of 1800MHz on top of 900MHz due to capacity issues that hit operators a decade ago. AT&T would be using 1900MHz fill in I guess - they've got 5MHz UMTS chewing into that band, but they've had a lot more time to plan out a network. (Pardon my ignorance, I have no idea about US mobile spectrum allocations)

Re:different freqs?

[Alioth]

We are also having signal strength problems with a completely unrelated bit of kit (a Datalogic Jet handheld terminal). The GSM hardware is crap - and whether it works well or not depends on which provider's SIM it's using. It doesn't work worth a damn with either of the mobile providers we have here (Manx Telecom and Cable and Wireless), but it does work with an O2 card. I don't know what might be on a SIM card that would make a radio work worse or better. (We are about to tell the supplier 'not fit for purpose', in fact).

Re:different freqs?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm suddenly forced to realize I've been blinded by the economic prosperity of the US my entire life! You're right, the European way IS best! I--and my fellow Americans--are living in filth and squalor, and even worse--we have subpar cellphone plans! I hope we can get arrogant attitudes along with our conversion to the European way ;-) I apologize for the poor attempt at humor, but your tone is so typical of anti-American arrogance--and of all things about cell phones! (it's always the cell phone conversations that brings it out the most) Curious statement. The US Economy is a rather complex beast and I don't think it has much to do with 'the American way'. The US National Debt is 9 Trillion Dollars. The US Dollar conversion rate to Euro is edging on 1.5. The people in charge there also seem to largely be interested in diverting public interest in Wars instead of fixing internal problems and I have my doubts that no matter what president or senators are chosen, this isn't going to change due to momentum and corruption.

Probably true. At my local mall there's a LARGE kiosk that advertises and sells unlocked phones from around the world...so I'm not sure how true your supposition is overall. But how many people actually buy them when they can get a phone "free" with their contract. At least importing cellphones (Quad Band GSM probably?) from Europe would mean the prices would be exceptionally high with the plummeting dollar value.

Re:different freqs?

[JackRabbitSlims]

Wow wow, that sounds nuts to me? Where did you get the idea that in "most of the country" there's no GSM coverage? I'd love to see the statistics about that.. I don't suppose you have any? Here's the coverage map for ATT btw http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/. I guess it's possible that including Alaska covered vs uncovered could be CLOSE ... but I'm not sure. If you count any cell coverage, (CDMA, smaller companies, etc) you're dead wrong.

The OP was refering to GSM exclusively. Whether this is important for a regular user or is "cell coverage of any type" is different. OTOH don't be confused by the colors of the map of ATT you provide. Zoom in one step and you will see a better picture of poor and no coverage areas.

"So few American have cell phones" ... I gotta see your statistics on this, the only people I know that don't have phones are my 85-90 year old grandparents. Do you really believe this bull? Just what do Europeans believe about us?! most of the US doesn't have coverage and most people don't have cellphones? Gotta say, when you're so wrong about the basic facts upon which you make your slander, it really makes me take the rest of your post less seriously. 82% of Americans Own Cell

If you follow your link and get the source of the information from the CTIA http://files.ctia.org/pdf/CTIA_Survey_Mid_Year_2007.pdf you can read an interesting piece of evidence regarding this percentage:
"It has been conducted since January 1985, originally as a cellular only survey instrument, and now including PCS and ESMR providers. No break-out of results specific to PCS or ESMR is performed at this time."

I don't know right now, but the US has traditionally had a good installed base of these type of devices, which shouldn't account IMO for what we understand now for mobile phones.

Re:different freqs?

[xaxa]

A map of coverage in Europe from *1997* has about 50% GSM coverage. A current map has pretty much 100% coverage.

The CIA factbook says the USA has 233M subscribers (2006), 301M people = 77%
The EU has 466M (2005), 490M people = 95%
(OK, your link is newer. But look at the subscriber ratios in the boxes on the map for the UK, Germany, Sweden etc -- above 100%! My 85 year old grandparents do have mobile phones ;-)

Re:different freqs?

[arth1]

As others have noted, you read the map wrong if you just look at the colour, because a coloured pixel doesn't mean coverage in the entire area under the pixel, and once you zoom in, you'll see more and more uncovered area. In addition, your coverage map includes not only GSM, but all sorts of cell phone systems.

For a more honest map of AT&T's GSM coverage, see:
http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=us&net=b3

There too, the coloured pixels are deceiving and gives an impression of much higher coverage than what's actually the case. You have to zoom in to get a better impression of how bad geographical coverage really is.

If counting all GSM providers, coverage is much better, but still not even close to half the area, and nowhere near the coverage situation in Europe.
And to those who say that the population density is higher in Europe, that's only true for some European country. The Nordic countries, for example, has a much lower population density than the US, but still around 95% geographical coverage, and a similar number of teens and adults using at least one cell phone.

Re:different freqs?

[VCAGuy]

You're correct about UMTS 3G services cutting into existing PCS frequencies at 1900 MHz in the US. Carriers put UMTS/WCDMA traffic on 850/1900 MHz, which is why there aren't any 3G world phones...yet! Cingular/AT&T mostly uses 850 for UMTS/HSDPA since that frequency is less often used for voice service than 1900 MHz (not all GSM phones support 850 MHz here, so carriers still have a large number of 900/1800/1900 MHz devices).

Re:different freqs?

[S.Rowsby]

With microcells these days I'm surprised that you even lack signal in your basement. They hide them in the tops of phone boxes and stuff these days.

Re:different freqs?

[VP]

If you subtract the areas in the US where there's no GSM coverage, i.e. most of the country

I don't think this is accurate. Most of the US has GSM coverage - you can check the AT&T coverage map...

Re:different freqs?

[Anonymous Coward]

If your phone lets you switch manually between 1900MHz and 900/1800, then do it, rather than using the auto setting. Your phone will be listening as hard as it can for its home network on the 900/1800 bands while it is roaming.

Re:different freqs?

[downhole]

If you subtract the areas in the US where there's no GSM coverage, i.e. most of the country, you get a GSM population density that's higher.

Maybe you should tell my phone that "most of the country" has no GSM coverage. I use ATT/Cingular and I travel to rural locations frequently. I've had trouble getting a signal maybe one time in the last three years. This is with the stock antenna and no booster or other assistance.

Re:different freqs?

[Moridineas]

The OP was refering to GSM exclusively. Whether this is important for a regular user or is "cell coverage of any type" is different. OTOH don't be confused by the colors of the map of ATT you provide. Zoom in one step and you will see a better picture of poor and no coverage areas. Your theory is no more authoritative than my posting the link the graphic! I'm still waiting for numbers, which nobody has provided yet. I haven't been able to find any myself...so it's still open.

I also think you're misinterpreting the second link.

Re:different freqs?

[Moridineas]

If counting all GSM providers, coverage is much better, but still not even close to half the area, and nowhere near the coverage situation in Europe. Still waiting on numbers. Gifs can only tell us so much :) Besides which, the base statement about GSM is not applicable to the cell situation in the US since Verizon/Sprint have huge networks (disputably bigger than ATT).. Anyway, if you have any facts about this, I would love to see them. I haven't been able to find any.

And to those who say that the population density is higher in Europe, that's only true for some European country. The Nordic countries, for example, has a much lower population density than the US, but still around 95% geographical coverage, and a similar number of teens and adults using at least one cell phone. Wow, you're right, America SUCKS. I don't think anyone has brought up population density, other than you? Don't quite know what your bone is... Sweden/Norway have MARGINALLY lower population densities than the US, Denmark has far greater. ~shrug~ what does that tell us? Not a lot...

Re:different freqs?

[Moridineas]

I wonder if the average American is just greener, and doesn't want to worry about the EM pollution, as well as the vast amount of electricity lost to charging batteries and "wall wart" chargers left plugged in? ;-)

Re:different freqs?

[Cro Magnon]

I just recently got my iPhone, but I'll be putting it to the test this Christmas when my mom and I visit my aunt. In a small town. In Iowa. If it works there, it will probably work almost anywhere.

Re:different freqs?

[JackRabbitSlims]

The OP was refering to GSM exclusively. Whether this is important for a regular user or is "cell coverage of any type" is different. OTOH don't be confused by the colors of the map of ATT you provide. Zoom in one step and you will see a better picture of poor and no coverage areas. Your theory is no more authoritative than my posting the link the graphic! I'm still waiting for numbers, which nobody has provided yet. I haven't been able to find any myself...so it's still open. I am not exposing any theory of any type. You gave a link to a graphical image that I think it doesn't give any conclusive information as it is subject to interpretation. You can look for the numbers yourself and try to make a point instead of saying "look, this is the coverage of GSM in the US".

I also think you're misinterpreting the second link. Please elaborate in which ways.

Re:different freqs?

[Moridineas]

I am not exposing any theory of any type. You gave a link to a graphical image that I think it doesn't give any conclusive information as it is subject to interpretation. You can look for the numbers yourself and try to make a point instead of saying "look, this is the coverage of GSM in the US". I'm not sure what you're supposed to be exposing? My point is that the original poster said "most of the country doesn't have GSM coverage." At the minimum, most of the country would be just over 50%, yeah? Nobody has been able to back up that argument, or really tried--everything that's been posted has been "subject to interpretation." Furthermore, we're talking one network, and one network only--the whole thing is nuts! That's my point.

Please elaborate in which ways. Gladly! One, you seem think the numbers are invalid because of the possible inclusion of some ESMR and PCS devices, you assume they should not count as "cell phones," and you assume the number is large enough to distort the overall mobile picture in the US.

One thing you might be confused about is that for instance you may have heard of Sprint PCS? Not so anymore!

As I said, I think you're misinterpreting all of the above, but i any case, I went to wikipedia, added up the top 5 cell providers and came up with ~220 million reported subscribers. There are TONS of local cell companies in the US--particularly in those rural areas where some people think there's no coverage (I'm not sure if there are small providers in Europe or if it is more dominated by the big corporations?)--and it doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me that 20-30 million people could subscribe to such companies. In any case, all that shows is that the numbers in the article are, at worst, pretty darn close.

Re:different freqs?

[tehcyder]

don't know whether the US environment is noisier and needs the phones to shout louder

No, it's when you have two tin cans on a piece of string that it helps to shout louder.

No problems here...

[Richard_at_work]

I've had an iPhone since they were launched here in the UK and I cannot honestly say I have experienced any signal problems and if anything I get better voice quality on the iPhone than my previous phone (w810i).

I'm not exactly in a major metropolitan area either, out here in a commuter town in the South West, but my signal strength hasn't really been a problem - I'm always able to make calls or connect via GPRS or EDGE, so I'm pretty much happy at the moment. I've travelled a bit as well in the past 2 weeks and I've yet to experience signal loss, even out in the country side.

Re:No problems here...

[porneL]

The "connect via GPRS or EDGE" is a problem for me. I'm not bothered very much that it doesn't have 3G (I've installed ziproxy + privoxy which cut down traffic), but not even having EDGE sucks (slow gets even slower!? and YouTube won't even try opening movies).

It's Apple

[paranode]

So they just can't resist throwing it out there so the haters can bash it and the fanboys can defend it. ;)

Re:It's Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah.. and if Microsoft launched a mobile phone in the UK that had execptional bad reception compared to other phones (rtfa or see next thread), Slashdot wouldn't botter to mention it at all, noooo...

This "why report problems with Apple when we know there always are problem with new products and they will surely fix it", that we have seen in force on many stories now, is a quite fascinating response.

Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple that?

[siyavash]

Could we please do away with iPhone this and Apple that?... I'm kind'a tired of it. We got it, it's the hype... but damn, what's next... "IPHONE GETS SCRATCHED"... why is iPhone so important? Tons of other tech products have tons of problems. Can we please have some REAL News?

One small detail

[franksands]

[...]others have had to do a software restore back to version 1.1.2 of the iPhone software. 1.1.2 is the current version of the software. It seems to me that apparently the problem is with british jailbreaken phones, which wouldn't be either Apple's or O2's fault.

Re:One small detail

[Anonymous Coward]

In the UK the person who bought the phone has the "right" to use any network on their phone.

Re:One small detail

[jacksonj04]

Not if you've got an iPhone. The terms of use stated on the outside of the box, the EULA you agree to when you activate it, and usually by whoever sold you the thing in the first place state quite clearly the phone is for use exclusively on the O2 network. You agreed to it.

Re:One small detail

[Achromatic1978]

Except for one trivial detail - statutory rights cannot be usurped by contract or EULA. Oops.

Re:One small detail

[jacksonj04]

Which of my statutory rights says I have the right to use a mobile phone on any network? Genuine question - I'm not aware of anything which states that, only that it's historically been the way things are done in the UK.

Re:Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple tha

[Anonymous Coward]

You could a: go outside for a bit or b: disable apple related stories. if theres something really important thats apple related then you'll find out from elsewhere.

Clarification of the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

British iPhone users, who bought the Apple phones when they went on sale in England on Nov. 9, are reporting persistent problems with signal strength on O2, the UK's only iPhone service provider

Just so people aren't confused, the iPhone is on sale in the whole of the UK, not just England. Also, it's not just people in Britain that are experiencing the problem, but people in all parts of the UK.

For any Americans reading this that don't know what I'm talking about, let me put this in Slashdot terms:

UK != Britain != England.

Cunts.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[G Fab]

nothing in the summary indicated that England = the UK.

This was like saying "Chevies from Michigan suck. Canadians are complaining about the North American automaker's reliability."

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Compholio]

For any Americans reading this that don't know what I'm talking about, let me put this in Slashdot terms:

I really shouldn't dignify this with a response but:

US != North America != America

We can be pedantic too.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[$RANDOMLUSER]

nothing in the summary indicated that England = the UK.

Nice job. Now you've assigned England == the UK.

"=" is an assignment; "==" is pronounced "is equal to". Say it! Say it and mean it!

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

nothing in the summary indicated that England = the UK.

Perhaps not, but it still didn't make much sense. It was like saying, "American iPhone users, who bought the Apple iPhones when they went on sale in Michigan ..."

Why single out Michigan?

Re:Clarification of the summary

[leenks]

Surely this depends on the language you are using. There are languages that use = as "is equal to".

Re:Clarification of the summary

[$RANDOMLUSER]

Aye, but we're using "!=" as "is not equal to", which is a C/C++/Java/C# idiom. The languages that use "=" as both assignment and the equality test generally use "<>" as the "is not equal to" operator.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Kreigaffe]

This is why I, for one, call your entire country by the blanket-term "those rotten-toothed limey bastards across the pond"

No worries about making any mistakes there!

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Whilst we avidly refer to you as septics.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Dunbal]

it's not just people in Britain that are experiencing the problem, but people in all parts of the UK.

      OK I'll buy the England != UK bit, but Britain, ie "Great Britain" includes Scotland and Wales. That's why it's "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Attila the Bun]

US != North America != America

OK, but what should we call you? Unitedstatesians?

Even GWB would balk at that. Living in France, I might feel like suggesting something to do with monkeys, but that would be rude. I like America very much, except for the airports.

With the dollar so low at the moment, does anybody know if US iPhones can be used on European networks?

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

"Yanks". :-)

(American visitors are sometimes confused by the fact that USAians from both sides of the relevant civil war line are referred to as "Yanks" in britain and Ireland. It's loosely related to "yankee", obviously, but used indiscriminately).

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Eli Gottlieb]

Actually, the other guy had it right. "=" is the equality operator while ":=" performs assignment.

Idiot C monkeys.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[G Fab]

1+1=2, knucklehead.

We're not alluding to C or fortran or whatever easy ass script language you might have learned in high school. Ww're alluding to math and symbolic logic. The fact that your computer languages are unable to parse between two meanings of = that are basic is just a root problem with machines, not a limitation of the symbols that are easy for people to use in language.

Would you really have us reconsider everything we say so that they can be uniquely expressed to a computer? I have to say "else" if I already said "then"? I can't say this, that, or that?

Realize that computer symbols are based on concepts that have existed for centuries. Great concepts that the computer languages should be do their best to equal. Ordering me to simplify these concepts because your programming language is very primitive and cannot determine the different "=" based on context is ordering me to be primitive myself. And as hard as I could try, I would never lower myself quite that far.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[UbuntuDupe]

Oh, ha ha ha. It's all fun and games until you think about all the Scottish, Welsh, and North Irish people who have to re-register all their national documents now that they live in different countries.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Kreigaffe]

yes.. but unfortunately your derogatory slang is convoluted and unclear. possibly a result of mad cow disease. moooooRAWR

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

OK I'll buy the England != UK bit, but Britain, ie "Great Britain" includes Scotland and Wales. That's why it's "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".

Exactly; Britain doesn't include Northern Ireland, so it isn't the same thing as the UK. You kind of managed to disprove your own point while you were making it.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Richard W.M. Jones]

"=" is an assignment; "==" is pronounced "is equal to"

... In a certain rather poorly designed programming language where it causes problems for beginners and experts alike. Other languages use more sensible notation.

Rich.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Like OCaml, which uses = for binding and structural equality, == for physical equality, := for assignment to references, and - for assignment to mutable record fields -- so much more intuitive than C! :P

Re:Clarification of the summary

[bertybassett]

Yep - US iPhones work fine (after unlocking). I can confirm everything is fine and dandy on Virgin (UK), O2-Prepay (UK) and Orange-FR (france).....signal strength is fine too - even in rural France, around the Limoges area.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Archon-X]

poor sepos. they love to cling to their tired insults [austray-leans! Y'all are convicts, har, har!, british, want a cup of tea, hoo, hoo]
you know, I was on an air france flight last week flying back to paris, when a petite donnybrook broke out between a yank and a frog.

It was priceless: all the yank could do was look angry and confused and repeat: what's your problem?! ad nauseum, as he was promptly and lucidly dressed down verbably by the french gentleman, much to the amusement of the passengers.

OT? Absolutely. Mod me down!

Re:Clarification of the summary

[One Childish N00b]

Great concepts that the computer languages should be do their best to equal.
Do be do be do...

1st rule of the internet: If you're going to call someone out for using a primitive language, make sure you're up to scratch with your own ;).

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

Explain to me how you, a human so much smarter than a machine would evaluate
c = a = b

Is this a is assigned b which is then assigned to c? Or is it c is assigned whether or not a is equal to b? C'mon - you're a smart human who doesn't have the limitations of machines.

I'm sure you could come up with a set of rules that completely eliminates all corner cases and ensure that only 1 meaning is possible, but that'll probably eliminate a lot of the expressive power of the language.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Anonymous Coward]

There are no reason for the flaws of the C language and its derivatives to infiltrate the English language.
The English language is screwed up enough as it is.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[Richard W.M. Jones]

Just to clarify the parent posting ...

You use = for binding and equality. This is like 99% of uses in well-written functional code.

I've been a professional OCaml programmer for > 3 years and I don't recall ever having used == (pointer equality). You might use it in certain lowlevel code.

:= and <- indicate that you're using mutable fields, which you should only do when you really need C-like performance. If you forget and use = instead by accident, you'll get a compile-time error. Unlike in C where if you confuse = and == you'll get at most a warning before your code stomps (or doesn't stomp) on some important variable.

Rich.

Re:Clarification of the summary

[G Fab]

Well, I supposed I could've been nicer, but remember that I was replying to a shrieking commenter, so I think I was pretty fair.

And of course computer programs are primitive. 1+1=10 to computers. They have to go through abstractions in order to distinguish beyond "on" and "off." It's not an insult to call them primitive, it's just the way machines are, even though they are far more advanced than they were in the past, etc etc. I can look at context, experience doubt when my "code" is producing unusual results or incoherent, etc. Thus, I can read without each character and variable being absolutely unique.

So I don't think I'm a troll. You have to look at the comment above for context! Aren't you guys listening to anything I'm saying? :(

Re:Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple tha

[xaxa]

I'd not noticed before, but the "Slashdot" logo at the top of the page says "Sometimes you have to go outside" for mobile stories (so I think that means this isn't an Apple story).

Problem with "smartphones"

[webmaster404]

The problem with these "smartphones" is that even though they look like a computer, have the same software of a computer and act like a computer, they are nothing but walled gardens at most (those running Linux aside) then you take Apple who releases "updates" to stop people from freeing their iPhones. Take all these together, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Re:Problem with "smartphones"

[Anonymous Coward]

why linux aside? methinks you're a common fanboi.

Re:Problem with "smartphones"

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone isn't a smartphone unless you jailbreak it. Almost all of the smartphones in current use run SymbianOS, which is emphatically *not* a walled garden; it's as open as any other commercial OS, and anyone can develop software for it.

Re:Problem with "smartphones"

[Anonymous Coward]

Because several linux phones are open enough that anyone can write programs for them, e.g. OpenMoko phones (which you can buy developer models of now) and Nokia Maemo phones (Look, I don't name these things...).

Re:Problem with "smartphones"

[Eli Gottlieb]

The Garden of Eden was a walled garden.

Re:Problem with "smartphones"

[webmaster404]

But commercial OSes generally are walled gardens because many parts of it are not well documented and you generally can't get the source code to look it over.

Re:Sounds like

[irn_bru]

It'll be the fog... probably.

Re:Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple tha

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you read every story on slashdot, regardless of content? I skip anything that doesn't interest me. It never occurred to me that that might be an innovate strategy unknown to other readers.

Is this really a frontpage story?

[Anonymous Coward]

If it only effects a couple of people, it is not a story.

You would need at least 03 customers before this should make a headline.

Re:Is this really a frontpage story?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, in binary, it would be 10. And that would be many people.

Ifon.... Yesterday's News

[Digital Components]

I'll take a BT/PSP fon over the iFon any day of the week, and twice on Sunday, TYVW.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6683231.stm

And while we're on the subject of Wi-Fi fones, if anybody's paying attention, T-Mobile can catch the iTards with their pants down:

http://www.theonlyphoneyouneed.com/

Put that together with the PSP/2 and they'll eat Steve Job's lunch.

Have A Great Day, bitches.

iPhone gets scratched!

[mkiwi]

I have just received word that an iPhone has been scratched. In depth coverage with Commander Taco to follow...

Honestly, I haven't seen this kind of slashdot fervor since OMG PONIES!!! That was definitely a new low.

Re:Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple tha

[Anonymous Coward]

Only someone who hasn't seen the Itchy and Scratchy movie would say that. Lets get him!

Re:Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

Wayay man, fog on the Tyne. Alreet.

Re:Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple tha

[abigor]

You can block Apple stories in your preferences. Or you can ignore them. These are but two of the many bold strategies for avoiding stories you don't like.

England != UK

[jackster1]

" went on sale in England on Nov. 9" Just FYI, the UK isn't just England, it's got Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in it too. Hence 'United Kingdom'.

Re:England != UK

[Anonymous Coward]

"went on sale in England on Nov. 9" Just FYI, the UK isn't just England, it's got Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in it too.

Yeah, but we've got people working on this problem.

It's not a bug, it's a feature!

[Erikderzweite]

OK, listen up guys.
What are you discussing now is actually the designer feature thoughtfully provided by Steve Jobbs himself.
Imagine, just imagine - you're listening to the iTunes music on your iPhone. Do you want to be distracted in such a wonderful moment? No!
*Especially* not by a phone call!

Re:Ok. So?

[bigstrat2003]

If Jobs had not made so many proclamations about the ability of the iPhone to walk in water, then maybe people wouldn't be picking on the reception issues, which all new products might seem to suffer as they enter new markets. QFT. To be fair, the Apple fanboys were also proclaiming this even louder than Jobs. I was so glad when the iPhone launched, because we could stop hearing about how it was going to revolutionize the whole phone landscape. This story is only newsworthy because of how much ridiculous amounts of hype the damn phone got.

Re:Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple tha

[Anonymous Coward]

Verizon is already planning commercials to take advantage of this.

"Can you hear me now? Bloody hell!"
*puts away iPhone, pulls out 1985-looking monster*
"Can you hear me now? Ace!"
*drinks cup of tea*

Psst... typo

[Anonymous Coward]

02 --> O2, or vice versa. I'm too lazy to look up the correct version.

iphone is meh from a UK perspective.

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, most people have "smartphones" (obnoxious term) that already outclass the iPhone in most areas (and no, not having buttons is not better if your life revolves around texting...). The iphone looks good in the american mobile phone market, but the american mobile phone market is a travesty.

The iphone, while being exceptionally heavily marketed, has already been deemed uncool in the 18-30 age group. Seems to be mainly older people who buy it, more susceptible to the advertising that it's "hip".

Re:iphone is meh from a UK perspective.

[Stevecrox]

Being in the 18-30 age group (21) I saw it as a giant flashy waste of money and worried people would buy it and help show the operators that we would pay for the phone and a overpriced contract.

My little sister (18) exact words on the matter were "why would anyone buy an iPhone cause its rubbish and you get all the stuff it does in an iPod anyway" my other little sister (16) hated it because it lacked a keyboard and was really expensive.

Then we have my ex work mates (all aged between 16-20) universally hated it the girls hated the lack of camera, the guys have hated it mainly because it can't do picture messaging (no dodgey photos from the missus.) The main opinion was it was "a giant waste of money". Its not that "we" see it as uncool but when you compare it to any phone on the market feature wise (ignoring the browser) it has less than a £27 Nokia phone I picked up in o2 on pay as you go tariff and the fact you would get all the cool extra features in the new iPod.

So correction not "uncool" but "giant waste of money" and no I wasn't on a crusade to stop people buying this its actually come up in normal conversation last time I went out with my ex work mates one of the girls started talking about how she was going to get a new iPod nano but would never get a iPhone because how expensive it was.

Re:iphone is meh from a UK perspective.

[Anonymous Coward]

giant flashy waste of money Yes, that is to say: uncool. Of course "coolness" varies from peer group to peer group, and if you're from a lower-working-class/welfare background "flashy waste of money" and cool might be closer (think chav gold chains), but conspicuous consumption like some nouveau riche american "gangsta rappa" is generally deeply uncool in the huge (and at-least-1-mobile-phone-per-person) middle class of britain. In short, having an iphone will mean you look like a twat with more money than sense. And that's not generally uncool in britain.

Re:iphone is meh from a UK perspective.

[Stevecrox]

I agree with your logic but these same people have said the N95 was far to expsensive and yet when someone (not me) bought one they definitly loved it. My PSP has been described as far too expsensive to ever buy by many people but picked up a disturbing amount of interest from people whenever I dug it out to play in Student Union. No I wasn't posing but generally waiting for a uni mate to arrive. Most sports cars are seen as incredibly cool things but recently a work friend was looking for a new car despite being able to afford a decent sports car he got something more practical instead. Apple Macs are seen as cool and yet most people would never buy one because there so expensive.

"Coolness" doesn't really factor in common sense I have little doubt that if I owned a iPhone and showed it to my mates they'd see it as "cool" and probably steal it off me to play with.

I think the iPhone's in the same vein as the nokia n95 and Apple Mac's far to expensive for 90% of people to ever buy since you can get most of what it does in a much cheaper phone/laptop but still cool. Unlike burberry, gold chains, big gold rings, Speedfight 2 scooters and anything else Chav.

BTW this whole post was brought to you from a person who hates the iPhone, iBooks, iPods. I just think its a testiment to the control Apple has over the media and people that it isn't seen as "uncool" just too expensive and not worth the money.

Re:iphone is meh from a UK perspective.

[stewbacca]

The iphone, while being exceptionally heavily marketed, has already been deemed uncool in the 18-30 age group.

Oh REALLY now? I wish you'd come tell the 18-30 age group to quit asking to mess with my iPhone then. I *guess* I'm older, at 37??? but I didn't buy the phone for hype or advertising. I bought the phone because it is the best phone I tried. The phone features are the best, from voice mail to the address book, of any phone I've tried. All the other stuff (email, maps, a really good web browser) are just bonus. The phone is a crappy text-message phone, but then again, texting has been deemed uncool in the 37-50 age group.

Re:iphone is meh from a UK perspective.

[ArAgost]

So correction not "uncool" but "giant waste of money" and no I wasn't on a crusade to stop people buying this its actually come up in normal conversation last time I went out with my ex work mates one of the girls started talking about how she was going to get a new iPod nano but would never get a iPhone because how expensive it was. Here, take these, you need them more than I do: ,,,,,-...::;;

Re:iphone is meh from a UK perspective.

[Anonymous Coward]

So correction not "uncool" but "giant waste of money" and no I wasn't on a crusade to stop people buying this its actually come up in normal conversation last time I went out with my ex work mates one of the girls started talking about how she was going to get a new iPod nano but would never get a iPhone because how expensive it was.

Here, take these, you need them more than I do: ,,,,,-...::;;

A pedant writes: you forgot to give him "of".

Re:iphone is meh from a UK perspective.

[seanyboy]

The phone's definitely expensive in the UK. £1000.00 over the lifetime of the contract. That's a lot of money.
However, I bought one, and I love it. It's definitely better than the N95 which I also owned and used for a couple of months. The N95 is a buggy P.O.S. in my opinion. I don't know why people like it.
Texting is fast on the iPhone, but it's not really geared for one handed texting like more conventional phones.
Browsing and email is awesome. I run my life by email and this phone smacks the N95 in this category.
Pretty much everyone I know (including those in the 18-35 "cool" category) love the phone. They wouldn't buy it because it's just too expensive.

That's another data point for you. Doesn't say anything really.

Related to unlocking?

[Durzel]

"thers have had to do a software restore back to version 1.1.2 of the iPhone software" is a telling statement, UK iPhones come with 1.1.2 out of the box - no one would need to do a software restore BACK to this version unless they had unlocked it (which currently requires downgrading the software to 1.1.1).

Isn't it possible that if UK users are applying patches/firmwares intended for US iPhones (since that's where it would appear the jailbreaks/unlocks originate) then there may well be a difference in GSM configurations?

Also how many of these users bought their phones from the US? Does anyone know for certain whether or not there are NO hardware/software differences between US and UK iPhones?

Re:Sounds like

[Dunbal]

bloody geordies

110 million out of 300 million is not "so few"

[The MAZZTer]

so few Americans have cell phones.

More than 1/3 is not "so few".

(Here's how I figured out the 1/3 bit from "110 million".)

Re:110 million out of 300 million is not "so few"

[gutnor]

Your numbers are 7 years old, a long long time ago in the mobile world. Now I think that it is closer to 60% - 220 million mobiles

However, in market penetration term, it is pathetic compared to europe. A lot of European countries have above or close to 100% market penetration ( i.e. more than 1 mobile per inhabitant )

See the numbers here: http://www.cellular-news.com/story/21065.php

That said, even with a shitty market penetration, the US is one the biggest market for mobile phone in the world with China ( 400 millions subscribers )

Re:110 million out of 300 million is not "so few"

[heinousjay]

I wouldn't exactly call it pathetic. So some people have decided they don't need cell phones... that's a perfectly reasonable personal choice, not a target for insults.

Re:110 million out of 300 million is not "so few"

[Anonymous Coward]

Good grief. He wasn't calling people without cell phones pathetic. He said it was pathetic market penetration compared to Europe. Get over it.

Re:Sounds like

[CrossChris]

Nope - O2 have good coverage throughout Britain. The iPhone has poor receive sensitivity and low transmit power compared to other models. It's an overpriced piece of junk.

Is that the UK is more 3g then EDGE and the iphone

[Joe The Dragon]

Is that the UK is more 3g then eage and the iphone is EDGE only?

Re:Sounds like

[Stevecrox]

I have a O2 phone (XDA Mini S in fact) I have had pretty good coverage everywhere (not yet found an area where I couldn't get a signal) and my phones reception quality isn't that great when compared to most phones (my Orange m500 using a O2 sim card had a much stronger signal in the same areas.) In the UK the big phone operators Orange, Vodaphone and O2 have around 98/99% coverage of the UK for 2.5G phone and 3G coverage is increasing rapidly (I believe its over 70% coverage.)

The issue isn't the operator.

Shut up already.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I know you think the iPhone is an over-hyped piece of garbage. I don't. I'm quite happy with how absolutely customizable it is (unintentionally, of course) and I'm thrilled it has a giant screen instead of ugly tiny plastic buttons. I haven't had problems with it and yes, I'm sad that Apple has to be so protective of the OS and such also but that doesn't mean that the device doesn't have merits.

And honestly, calling other devices as usable as it is a little ridiculous. Though I'm in complete agreement that it's not as revolutionary as Steve would like it to be.

Changing supplier

[BovineSpirit]

In Britain there's laws covering how long the suppliers have to change a number. If you move to a new supplier and it takes more than a week for them to transfer your old phone number to your new SIM there's some big fines waiting for them. Makes changing supplier a lot less hassle. I would imagine there's similar laws across Europe, not sure about the US...

Re:Changing supplier

[jamar0303]

America really needs regulations like this. No free incoming, crap phone lineup, contracts... I can import a nice phone, but it doesn't help with the crap service plans.

Re:Changing supplier

[heinousjay]

Yeah, we really need to bring our legislators to bear on getting better deals on cell phones so we can brag equally to our European antagonizers. That should definitely be a political priority. Nothing is more important than having cheap cell phone service.

Re:Ok. So?

[Ngarrang]

Heh. I post a message that doesn't put Apple down and it gets moderated down. Typical Slashdot. If it doesn't denigrate Microsoft or Apple, it must be modded down! Well, karma was meant to be burned, not saved.

Feh!

That says more about Sony Ericsson

[_merlin]

Just about any phone will get you better call quality than a Sony Ericsson. They're atrocious! The best call quality you can get is from the NECs, but they have poor battery life. I'd be shocked if the iPhone didn't sound better than a Sony Ericsson.

MODERATORS!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

die

Different Handsets.

[drolli]

> it appears to be the handset, which is unusual since US users haven't reported similar problems. Some 02 customers report that
> getting a replacement phone fixes things; others have had to do a software restore back to version 1.1.2 of the iPhone software."

It is not strange. I personally assume that the UK phones use GSM and the US phones do not, so they transmit over two completely different schemes. It is sad that this point was missed by the author of the article. Althoug I am not an expert, i remember that GSM is more sensitive to certain Problems.

Re:Different Handsets.

[MrPerfekt]

You are also wrong. All iPhones are GSM with EDGE for data transfer (2.75G). They're quad-band phones which allow them to operate on the varying frequencies from region to region. The 'schemes' are identical, only the frequencies vary.

The next iPhone (which will probably be released 1Q 2008) will likely be 3G, which is to say GSM with UMTS or HSDPA for data transfer. And again, will support enough frequencies to allow them to have one phone sold around the world. This reduces cost by having a unified, simple product line.

I know everyone is just trying to be helpful but if you don't know what the heck you're talking about, avoid spouting purportedly factual information.

Re:Different Handsets.

[drolli]

> You are also wrong. All iPhones are GSM with EDGE for data transfer (2.75G). They're quad-band phones which allow them to operate on > the varying frequencies from region to region. The 'schemes' are identical, only the frequencies vary. I did not know that a US-wide GSM coverage exists. Can i rely my GSM phone in the US (not an iphone)?

Re:Different Handsets.

[Jesus_666]

Depends on which GSM bands your phone supports. In the USA you generally want GSM 850 and GSM 1900.

Re:GSM is the problem

[MrPerfekt]

You're a tool. 3G refers to the UMTS/HSDPA (and losely EDGE though it's considered only 2.75G) part of the signal used for data transfer. The part of the signal used for voice is always plain standard GSM. A GSM phone from 10 years ago is just as usable today for voice. The only part that has been evolving is the data services.

What's really wrong

[Aqua OS X]

Actually, UK iPhone users have noted that their iPhones seem to be missing .5G.

Downgrading to 1.1.2 doesn't solve anything

[pm]

The iPhone has two processors each has it's own firmware. The iPhone software is at 1.1.2 - it controls the functions of the screens, programs, the touchscreen, etc. The iPhone baseband is either 3.9, or 4.6 - it controls the radio, WiFi, bluetooth, etc. The two processors talk back and forth using highspeed Hayes modem AT commands. :)

Downgrading the main 1.1.2 firmware only changes the software - so you can reenable the .TIFF exploit should you want to. But to do anything to radio reception, you would need to change the baseband firmware. Currently no one knows how to downgrade the baseband software.

There's details in this thread:
http://www.hackint0sh.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16571

In a nutshell, anyone downgrading their software to 1.1.2 or 1.1.1 or lower and who says they experiencing better cell phone reception is working under the placebo effect, because the firmware they are downgrading doesn't affect the radio at all. And no one knows how to downgrade the baseband firmware - or if they do, the technique isn't being publicized.

As far as reception, on T-Mobile in the US, my reception has generally been good. There's a bit of a funky "bug" that I've seen that if the reception is low or "no service" and you move into an area with service, it takes the phone a while to recognize this. So if you are in an underground tunnel and have no reception, then when you leave the tunnel it can take minutes for the iPhone to notice it has service again. This may be a "feature" since they are trying to save power or something, but it can be annoying to wait 3 minutes or more for the iPhone to decide it has service. There's also a rare odd effect that the phone will think it has all 5 bars, but will, in fact, have no service at all. Any time I have either of these issues, they correct themselves with time - or I can just power down the phone.

Re:Downgrading to 1.1.2 doesn't solve anything

[toddestan]

In a nutshell, anyone downgrading their software to 1.1.2 or 1.1.1 or lower and who says they experiencing better cell phone reception is working under the placebo effect, because the firmware they are downgrading doesn't affect the radio at all. And no one knows how to downgrade the baseband firmware - or if they do, the technique isn't being publicized.

Well, it depends on how they are judging their signal strength. If they are going off of what their phone tells them rather than actual performance when using it, it's concievable that the signal strentgth indicator has been tweaked somehow in the iPhone 1.1.2 software.

Re:Downgrading to 1.1.2 doesn't solve anything

[Manfesto]

You can also toggle Airplane mode instead of powering down to get your iPhone to reconnect to AT&T. It works for me when I leave an area with no service and my iPhone doesn't realize it.

Re:Downgrading to 1.1.2 doesn't solve anything

[pm]

Good advice - thanks. Yeah, that's working for me too and it solves the problem. Thank you!

It's the antenna, not the software

[integra_antennas]

While metal is shiny and slick, when it is too close to an antenna, the bandwidth decreases. So the antenna designer has a choice of which frequencies to focus their design effort. Since their initial target market was the USA, they probably targeted GSM850 (AT&T's GSM network). From the antenna photos, the GSM 1800/1900 part of the antenna is the part closest to the battery/metal covers, which further degrades performance in this band. One of the earlier replies said their iPhone worked fine in the country-side of the UK. This is most likely due to the GSM850/900 part of the antenna being furthest away from the battery/metal covers.

iPhone disassembled:
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone/Communications-Board/105/8/Page-7/Communications-Board

One can see a small little cable going from the RF Module to the antenna. In almost 99% of the GSM phones on the market today, the antenna is right next to the RF Module. This is to minimize the RF losses between the RFIC and the antenna. By using a cable, significant losses are introduced into the system by both the cable and the miss-match at both ends of the cable. The antenna is also at the bottom of the phone and is more likely to be covered by the user's hand (further decreasing sensitivity); though there are quite a few phone on the market with antennas at the bottom--it is how they get around the SAR limits which are specified as the peak radiation a user receives next to their ear (the mouth area is not measured in the FCC/EU tests.

So, while from an anecdotal perspective, it appears the iPhone has random sensitivity issues; from an antenna engineer's perspective however, it is no surprise why the iPhone has lower performance than most phones (but would still have similar performance to other phones with poor antenna designs--of which there are several for different reasons than cable losses).

If you are interested in reading more technical reports about antenna performance in mobile phones, go to the following website:

http://antennas.astri.org/antennas_mirror

PDF Password = astriantennas

Re:It's the antenna, not the software

[jia10]

This is most interesting. Are you planning on doing a full report on the iPhone antenna sometime soon?

Re:It's the antenna, not the software

[integra_antennas]

In February 2008, we will do a report on the iPhone. Have to wait for funding from the government first.

Text messaging is great

[EmotionToilet]

Actually I think the text messaging on the iPhone is great. Way better than any other phone I've tried, and I spent like 4 hours in a Sprint and AT&T store playing with different phones, plus playing with my friends phones. I find that typing isn't a problem at all, and is actually easier because of the way it auto-completes words. Also, I don't have to press the same button four times to get the "s" letter. A lot of different people have agreed that the iPhone keyboard thing is more of a non-issue. I do wish I could send pics and videos, and I'd like to be able to send a text to multiple people. I also wish it had smiley faces. I think all of these things will be addressed in the future through updates, which most other phones can't be updated in this way.

"I'm a serious texter" complainers suck balls

[thekm]

Seriously, most people have "smartphones" (obnoxious term) that already outclass the iPhone in most areas (and no, not having buttons is not better if your life revolves around texting...)

I've heard this from every idiot that's only used the phone for two minutes, and has their head buried so far up their own asshole that they really want to remain cooler in the gadget-space than someone who already has the coolest mobile gadget in the market today without exception.

The fact is, you need to get just a little used to the self-learning text auto-correction and just type. You'll get faster and more accurate, and the text engine will learn your more personal jargon-ish words including people's names and whatever else. It's easy to see the iPhone as far superior for texting by anyone who's used it for some time because the fact that you dont need to apply as much pressure as an actual button means that you can move even faster. Text entry on the iPhone for someone who's been using it for a while is simply divine, and although I'm not a heavy text user, I've beaten every text entry speed challenge made by friends and whoevers that think that they're texting gods and "need to stay with their blackberry because they're too uber".


Those people that come up with crap excuses as to why their old gear is still the best really do shit me to tears... but I really do appreciate that the iPhone text messaging complaints help me identify these people quicker than usual, just another iPhone feature: "wannabe tech-snob more-holy-than-thou head-up-ass finder"... now if only this feature was integrated with Google Maps, then I could stay well away from these fuckers!

Re:"I'm a serious texter" complainers suck balls

[Wheely]

I have to agree with you on this one. The texting on the iphone is by far the best of any phone i have used. It is also the only phone i have owned that i felt happy about writing emails on.

I live in Norway and use an unlocked US iphone on a local provider No problems with reception here.

Pisses me off that the thing is so tied in with all the apple crap though.

Re:"I'm a serious texter" complainers suck balls

[mjwx]

I know I really shouldnt but...

I've heard this from every idiot that's only used the phone for two minutes, and has their head buried so far up their own asshole that they really want to remain cooler in the gadget-space than someone who already has the coolest mobile gadget in the market today without exception.

I've heard that from every frothing at the mouth apple fanboy who cant handle that his precious iProduct may not be the greatest thing the world has ever seen. I have used the iphone, Many tried to sell it to me in Thailand (you can get them there, as well as Chinese copies) they wanted almost AU$1200 for them, I tried out three for about 20 minutes and found them a right royal pain in the ass to use, Window Mobile had a more intuitive and user friendly interface and given how bad Windows Mobile's interface is that is saying a lot. I find all on screen keyboards difficultly to use and the reported lack of Exchange functionality and picture messaging make it well and truly worse than my 2yr old Nokia that I paid AU$250 for (which can sync with OL and picture message).

Now I know two people who want the iphone, one is not very smart with money (the kind that is always asking me for money at the end of the month) one is 28 and still lives with his parents so the bank will give him an AU$50,000 loan to buy a sports car. Both of these people can be classed as having more money than sense. I really can see the iPhone becoming the next big thing in the Mid-Life Crisis market.

Re:"I'm a serious texter" complainers suck balls

[ssstraub]

I tried out three for about 20 minutes and found them a right royal pain in the ass to use, Window Mobile had a more intuitive and user friendly interface and given how bad Windows Mobile's interface is that is saying a lot.

This is nearly impossible for me to believe. The interface has been the bane of WinMo devices right from the start! You can complain about iPhone's lacking features and have credibility about it, but to say it's less user friendly than Windows Mobile is downright ludicrous. Give an iPhone and any WinMo phone to someone that's never used either, and they'll have figured out 90% of the iPhone's features in 10 minutes and probably still be trying to open a text message on the WinMo phone.

I find all on screen keyboards difficultly to use and the reported lack of Exchange functionality and picture messaging make it well and truly worse than my 2yr old Nokia that I paid AU$250 for (which can sync with OL and picture message).

Exchange != Outlook. The iPhone syncs with Outlook just fine. Exchange is for businesses, not home users (the target market for Apple).

Re:"I'm a serious texter" complainers suck balls

[thekm]

ok, you're exactly the tosser I'm talking about. The tell-tale sign is: "I tried out three for about 20 minutes" which was exactly my frigging point because half of that would have just been playing with cover-flow or google maps, and the fact that you called windows mobile "more intuitive"... which is just frigging absurd! The iPhone doesn't come with a manual, because it really is intuitive enough there's a high chance that anyone with half a brain can figure it all out. Which is something which could never happen with a Microsoft product.

It's obvious you have no idea, and spurting the very same head-up-ass bullshit I was talking about. I have no other apple product, the iPhone is simply the best at what it does (portable communications and media playing)... second best is so far behind it's spooky.

Re:"I'm a serious texter" complainers suck balls

[mjwx]

And you are exactly the kind of frothing at the mouth lunatic who just cant handle that the iphone might not cure cancer.

ok, you're exactly the tosser I'm talking about.

Pretty quick to resort to insults, try some facts instead next time.

The tell-tale sign is: "I tried out three for about 20 minutes"

I work with high end devices on a daily basis including Windows Servers, Linux Servers and Apple workstations, if I need more than 20 minutes to find all the core functions of a device the average person has no chance (BTW, I did find all the core functions of the iphone, I said it was annoying not difficult).

and the fact that you called windows mobile "more intuitive"... which is just frigging absurd!

Strawman, now you are putting words in my mouth, I didnt say that windows mobile was more intuitive, I said the iphone was less intuitive than windows mobile, the touch screen interface is going to give a lot of people issues especially considering the mobile nature of the device, the touch screen gave me enough trouble standing still.

The iPhone doesn't come with a manual, because it really is intuitive enough there's a high chance that anyone with half a brain can figure it all out. Which is something which could never happen with a Microsoft product.

Clearly you don't use Windows products, they aren't any more difficult than Apple. Second I didnt say the iphone was difficult to understand I said it was difficult to use. the interface in particular the touch screen was prone to error due to users pressing the wrong button, a stylus has always been more prone to error than a button doubly so whilst moving(granted I have a similar gripe with the Windows Mobile phones I support).

Re:"I'm a serious texter" complainers suck balls

[mjwx]

This is nearly impossible for me to believe. The interface has been the bane of WinMo devices right from the start! You can complain about iPhone's lacking features and have credibility about it, but to say it's less user friendly than Windows Mobile is downright ludicrous.

I never said the WinMo interface was good, I said the iphone managed to evade even those low standards. The main lack of user friendlyness comes from, 1. lack of informative text it takes someone a lot longer to proceess an Icon than it does to read text. 2. a touch screen on a mobile device, hitting the wrong button is anoying (Granted I have this grip with all mobile touch screen devices but the complete reliance on the touch screen makes it worse). Personally I hate having to support the WinMo users in my company, but I am glad I don't have to support blackberry or iphone users as well, WinMo is bad enough I don't need any more problems.

Give an iPhone and any WinMo phone to someone that's never used either, and they'll have figured out 90% of the iPhone's features in 10 minutes and probably still be trying to open a text message on the WinMo phone.

Thats a matter of perspective, I know plenty of people who have been dumbfounded by Mac OS X's interface, both newbs and hardened windows users alike. Contraversly a life long mac user is just a dumbfounded by a Windows interface*. I think if someone needs more than 10 minutes to open a text message on either system its time to take the phone away from them in case they hurt themselves. * In my experience a Windows user seems to handle Ubuntu's interface better than a Mac user.

Re:"I'm a serious texter" complainers suck balls

[thekm]

Just when I think know absolutely nothing about what makes an interface intuitive, you go ahead and show that you know even less... thanks for your CV too... apparently you're a network tech, and out of the many network tech's that I've known, some of them really are the worst tossers of all when it comes to head-up-ass attitudes of various gadgetry.

The iPhone is the most advanced and intuitive interface of a hand held on the market today. It just works for people in a way that no other device has. Network techs argue about Vi being better than emacs, and try to say that Windows is just as easy as Apple... this shows you really know nothing about interfaces. My Kubuntu work machine is better to use than windows, MacOSX is *far* easier to use than windows. I have to tolerate windows on other machines, but that's all I do.

I'm no fanboy, but if I had to be, I'd rather be one for a product that actually delivers... but I wish you luck with your Windows future and all your "high end devices" (that made me laugh out loud, a quality joke indeed... you really are a toff, well done).

US Phone worked fine

[michaeltw]

I was in the UK from 11/17 - 11/21 with my US AT&T iPhone - it roamed almost exclusively to O2 and worked great, I never had a problem - this was mainly in London.

Re:GSM is the problem

[nxtw]

The part of the signal used for voice is always plain standard GSM.

That could be true for some networks, but not the GSM/UMTS network I use. I set my phone to use only 3G service; consequently, all voice calls go over the UMTS network. Even without forcing the phone to use 3G, the majority of my calls went over 3G. By default, UMTS/HSDPA service is preferred and GSM/EDGE is used when UMTS is unavailable.

A GSM phone from 10 years ago is just as usable today for voice.

And this is going to be the case on any network that expands GSM and UMTS coverage alongside each other (well, if you discount advances in radios, new frequency allocations, and new codecs.) However, there's nothing preventing an operator from expanding coverage with 3G only.

I can't speak for the Australia market, but it's not unheard of for carriers to transition from one technology to another incompatible one over the course of a few years - the US's largest carrier being one example, with most of its customers using technologies other than GSM ten years ago.

Re:Is that the UK is more 3g then EDGE and the iph

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that is that maybe the iPhone only and not EDGE is or eage is or 3g is, right?

Unlocked iPhone on Orange (UK)

[blockage]

Gets a pretty strong signal in most places. I can compare side by side with a Razor (v.1), SE k610i, Nokia 6300 and an HTC Trinity (Orange branded). The iPhone actually gets a better signal than any of them (the Razor and k610i are by far the worst). My house is in a bit of an Orange black spot and there are parts of the house only the iPhone gets a signal. The iPhone is running 1.1.1 (AnySim 1.1) which I upgraded from 1.0.2.

Re:Unlocked iPhone on Orange (UK)

[integra_antennas]

Comparing signal bars on various models of mobile phones is not a good test of field strength. In order to compare sensitivity in a scientific manner, need to rip apart the phones and measure their various RF parameters like antenna efficiency RF power levels, TIS, and TRP. Various phone-makers have been caught "cheating" with their signal bars as to show better reception than their rivals--so this is not a reliable comparison method. There is also a problem with multi-path, so phone reception will vary according to how you hold the phone, whether you use a BT headset, if there is a lorry passing down your street between the cell phone tower and your handset, the weather, rain, etc..... Most of the phones you named (Nokia 6300, HTC, Razor) are well known for having poor antenna performance due to both the metal covers and the chrome plated material nearby the antenna (acts like a resistor and absorbs radiated power). A better comparison would be with a 5-7 year old phone with a much better antenna (like Nokia 3210).

Re:Sounds like

[consultant]

I have an iPhone running on Orange as the service provider and I get great signal, most 5 bars wherever I go, not exactly scientific, but O2 has a reputation of being worse overall coverage of the UK than most of the other large players, another great reason that Apple needs to offer an operator non-exclusive iPhone. Same as in the USA, there are outlying areas of the country that some cell providers simply don't provide good service to, where perhaps smaller companies or different operators do. In the world of cellphones, one size cannot fit all.

Re:Ok. So?

[arivanov]

Whatever...

The O2 home page says it all:

http://www.o2.co.uk/

It no longer features an iPhone on half a page. There is a Sony there instead. Nuff said.

Re:Sounds like

[FrostedWheat]

I have a O2 phone (XDA Mini S in fact)

You have my deepest sympathy. :-(

Re:Sounds like

[Stevecrox]

Two years ago I would have completly agreed with you, Orange's reception in the south west was unmatched (so everyone in the south west I knew owned a Orange phone) but in the last two years reception has been decreasing in the area. An example two years ago I bought a Orange M500 I had a signal strength of 5 bars in my old house. I gave the phone to my dad who is still with Orange and all of the Orange phones he's tried (Motorolla V3i, Sony Erricson w800i, M500) are no longer able to get any signal in the same house. Orange is probably the one company thats going backwards here where as O2's coverage is now excellent (T-Mobiles used to suck but is quite good these days.) That original house is in Plymouth I'm now living in Sherborne just outside Yeovil my O2 phones gets a decent signal everywhere (except one area) my mates with Orange phones tend to lose all signals within houses have the same blackspot I do.

The again I am quite bitter with orange ever since they refused to continue on my contract told me I would have to pay twice the price for less minutes/texts and be a racoon or something and wouldn't match O2's deal (only the tip of the ice berg of the bad service they gave me over two years.)

Re:Sounds like

[digitig]

I abandoned O2 for Vodafone because the O2 coverage was terrible where I live (a suburb of London); no signal at ground level, I was able to get a weak signal by the window in one bedroom. Coverage isn't so great.

But aren't we on a different frequency here in ths UK? It would be quite easy for the UK experience not to be the same as the US experience.

Re:Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple tha

[Lisandro]

By the time you're blocking half the stuff that appears on /. lately, the site is simply not worth the visit anymore. Sometimes i feel the people running this site simply don't care.

Re:Sounds like

[JoeSavage]

Poor receive sensitivity? Maybe. Phones only have to do better than -104dB to pass FTA testing, per 3GPP TS 45.005 . But the best performing phones can achieve up to -111dB for low bands and maybe 1dB worse for high bands.

Low transmit power? Not likely. 3GPP specs in link above (see section 4.1.1) dictate that handsets must be within 2dB of target output power under normal conditions (room temp, nominal battery voltage) and 2.5dB under all conditions. All handsets are calibrated on the manufacturing line to meet output power targets, and manufacturers typically calibrate each power level to [target - 0.5dB].

Vodafone

[celardore]

I've had nothing but problems with Vodafone, basically they promised me a £160 credit (which I have in writing) but it never materialised. They deny ever having agreed to the credit. I stopped using the SIM and I canceled the direct debit. They're threatening to take me to court. Bring it on, I've got all the proof I need. If they've got any sense they will drop the case as I have advised them to do.

Re:Vodafone

[digitig]

Maybe, but that doesn't affect coverage does it? Unless you get your revenge launching RPGs at their masts.

Grow up

[Anonymous Coward]

And of course you haven't fallen victim to the hype either, have you? (answer: you have, because you're reacting negatively against it.) It's highly unlikely you'd be posting on slashdot about say.. the new Nokia's limitation: crap screen, poor UI, poor usability.. hey but its got 3G and the iphone currently doesn't, so the latter must be 'teh worzt thing evah', right? Grow up.

Realise you're just as much a victim of hype as those who you claim were 'suckered' by the advertising.

(oh and when the SDK somes out, that'll be the end of the MMS gripes- once that and the 3G 'problem' have been addressed, what are you going to say then?)

Re:Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

The iPhone is quad band GSM, which means it uses two frequencies common to the US and the two common to Europe. If it were tri-band GSM, it might make sense that it would have better reception in the US or EU, but it appears that frequencies don't explain why there would be differences. In almost every market, different providers offer different levels of service, so the best provider in one city might not be the best in another.

In the hyper reactionary coverage of the iPhone, it's easy to write off complaints that don't offer some substantiation. If it had problems receiving a signal, I'm sure CNET would have jumped all over it in the US over the last few months. They've been desperately trying to overturn anything from Apple for years, and have no problem inventing problems with products.

EDGE upgrade?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in the UK on O2. I've a phone that (a) supports EDGE and (b) is almost exclusively used for data rather than phone calls.

A couple of points:

1) It seems that O2 are still in the process of upgrading their network to support EDGE. What tends to happen while this is done is that GPRS data support goes away (you can still make actual phone calls though), then EDGE comes on, then goes away again (several times).

Some parts of the country seem to have settled down, some are being actively upgraded, and some yet to start. I was Burton on Trent earlier today and teh mast(s) covering the South of the town were being done at around 3pm.

If someone's just been to a shop and bought a new phone, they're going to notice stuff like this going on and quite probably be annoyed by it. It doesn't mean that there is or isn't any inherant problem with o2 or the iPhone - it's just "stuff that happens". Voda went through a series of network upgrades earlier this year that annoyed a few people too.

2) Different phones (even similar generations from the same manufacturer) vary greatly in their ability to deal with low-signal situations. For example, if I drive across the Peak district (mildly hilly bit in the middle of England) with a Blackberry 7130, it'll lose coverage at various points. With a Blackberry 8700, it won't. These two phones are pretty similar and run similar software - the main difference is that the 7130 is slightly smaller, and I suspect that it's given the designers less room for manoeuvre over the aerial arrangement.

It's because Jobs is too far away

[SteeldrivingJon]

The Reality Distortion Field is too weak in the UK because Jobs is too far away.

The Jobs in your Mind

[LKM]

Jobs did not claim a single thing about the iPhone that it does not do. Which is a stark contrast to most other tech companies.

Also, walking in water does not seem too hard to me to begin with.

Re:Ok. So?

[LKM]

You post flamebait and it gets modded down. Seems to me the system works.

What else than flamebait would you call your post? Let's see:

"If Jobs had not made so many proclamations about the ability of the iPhone to walk in water"

Show me one single claim Jobs made about the iPhone's abilities that is false.

iPhone US vs. UK

[Penx]

I have an unlocked US iPhone on O2 and my house mate and one of my colleagues have a locked UK iPhone on O2. I definitely get better reception and EDGE coverage than both of them. No idea why, but hints that it's the hardware or possibly firmware. I'm on Firmware 1.0.2

Re:Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple tha

[Pope]

I didn't realize that your were FORCED against your will to read any Apple/iPhone stories. Terrible. Contact Amnesty International or something.

Re:Could we do away with iPhone this and Apple tha

[tehcyder]

You can block Apple stories in your preferences. Or you can ignore them. These are but two of the many bold strategies for avoiding stories you don't like.

Then you'd only be left with about one story a day.

Different frequencies

[etinin]

Erm, the standard frequencies in Europe are actually different from that in the US (which adopts mainly 850).

Re:Different frequencies

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this happen everywhere, or in remote areas?

Re:Different frequencies

[Anonymous Coward]

I have heard it only happens in the remotest of areas.

Re:Sounds like

[Anonymous Coward]

I have used all the major UK networks and have found consistently that O2 is the least reliable and worst coverage of all. Vodafone tops the charts in my opinion followed by Orange and T-Mobile. Although O2 has a good coverage area there sems to be poor quality in the network itself which results in dropped calls and such like.