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UN Says Tasers Are a Form of Torture
The use of Tasers "causes acute pain, constituting a form of torture," the UN's Committee Against Torture said. "In certain cases, they can even cause death, as has been shown by reliable studies and recent real-life events." Three men — all in their early 20s — died from after tasering in the United States this week, days after a Polish man died at Vancouver airport after being tasered by Canadian police. There have been 17 deaths in Canada following the use of Tasers since they were approved for use, and 275 deaths in the US. "According to Amnesty International, coroners have listed the Taser jolt as a contributing factor in more than 30 of those deaths."
It's lethal rounds or nothing, peacekeepers!
End of lesson. You may press the button.
...handguns are not a form of torture. Seriously, that's the choice in many situations - crazy meth'd-up homeless guy charges cop with knife...cop tases or cop shoots. Which do you prefer?
JTF: In your heart, you know we're right.
Originally, tasers as used in law enforcement were conceived as an alternative to lethal force--why shoot someone when you can use nonlethal weaponry?
Yet it has been proven over and over throughout history that whenever you give someone a nonlethal weapon, they're more likely to use them than a lethal weapon, even though its supposed to be a replacement for the lethal weapon.
And not surprisingly, this has happened with tasers, too; police are using them in absurd circumstances, even in some cases when the subject did nothing beyond verbal defiance, and worse, in cases where someone was "acting suspicious", such as in a recent case where an Egyptian man was tasered on a bus without any provocation--yet these were supposed to be used as replacements for guns, not as general-purpose weapons to put down anyone who looks suspicious!
That's a form of torture too and the kind of "non-lethal force" the police used to turn to. The only difference between beating someone with a baton and tasering them is that the officer using a taser doesn't have to be physically stronger than the victim (err, suspect), and suspects don't think they can fight back like they do against police using batons.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Good now maybe it will affect police department policy reguarding them. Remember back when tasers were first issued they were praised as being a non lethal way to stop a dangerous person. Instead of having to shoot a rake wielding drunk you could tase them instead. Now look at it's use today, if you even look at a cop wrong his hand travels towards it. So far removed from its initial purpose I hope this helps bring it back toward it's proper applications.
It seems that police use it as a extra form or untraceable corporal punishment. It's meant to be used as a next to lethal last resort but increasingly it's just replaced "couple punches to the face with a phone book in between". Stories vary but often after a person has put up a fight the police subdue him and then taser them. or use the taser to subdue him but then give a couple of extra shock to show whose boss etc... I find the people to gravitate to or are allowed to be policemen in my city aren't much different then the thugs that watch the exit at bars nor the bullies on the play ground. Anecdotally, a athletic friend of mine who had a black belt was turned down for enrollment into the police academy because he "lack life experience" while an acquaintance who spent a year as a bouncer at a strip club got accepted.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
It's not "a form of torture", Tasers are a way for law enforcement to avoid physical contact with an unruly subject without having to use deadly force. The use of this technology also encourages non-contact to subdue a subject whereas in the past up-front physical violence was needed.
Personally, I'd prefer talk/reasoning, then muscle, then the gun. No Tasers.
The takedown (and resulting death) in Vancouver is a good example of overuse of technology. 4 fit RCMP officers couldn't handle one guy?
And don't raise your voice around an undercover police officer.
And don't protest against anything.
And don't "act suspiciously" on a bus.
As long as you remain a complete sheep and don't do anything that might resemble, you know, being a free person, you'll be OK.
I find it very interesting that Taser International claims that the 150+ deaths that have occurred immediately after the person is shot with the Taser are not caused by the Taser. At the same time their website has pages (see below) of warnings about all the medical risks associated with being shot by a Taser (such as an increased risk of heart attack).
http://www.taser.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Controlled%20Documents/Warnings/LG-INST-CTZWARN-001%20REV%20E%20Citizen%20Warnings.pdf
As other posters have already commented, it is not the Taser itself that is the problem, it is the use of it. If these were being used only in cases where a firearm would normally be used it is one thing. In that situation a small risk of death by Taser is acceptable when compared to the near certainty after being shot multiple times. But that is not what we are seeing. People are dying in situations where without the Taser they would not be seriously harmed....and that is what I have a problem with.
I think the main problem is that tasers are not being used only as an alternative to a gun. If police were to think "I will only use the taser in the circumstance that otherwise I would be firing my gun," then your point is valid. However, it seems that in many situations, police are using tasers as a way to simply make their job of arresting someone easier.
The videotape of the guy in Vancouver shows pretty clearly that he was not in the process of attacking the police when they tased him. I seriously doubt that the police would have shot him had they arrived without a taser in that circumstance. Without a taser, they probably would have tried to slowly convey to him their intent to arrest him (he didn't speak English), and if unsuccessful they would have had to tackle him and struggle to restrain him. Both processes would be lengthy, difficult, and stressful for the police. Instead, it appears that they took an easy shortcut and just tased him so they could get the cuffs on him quickly. The man paid for this with his life. Without a taser, I submit he would likely be alive today.
So you're right: a taser used as a substitute for a gun (when the use of a gun is warranted) is fine. Using a taser when use of a gun is not warranted is the problem!
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
Thats all fine and dandy, IF you could actually live your life without breaking a law.
They WERE being pushed as an ALTERNATIVE to lethal force ("guns").
They WERE being pushed as "cop is in a dangerous situation, he can shoot or he can use a taser".
Now the tasers are the FIRST option. If the person is not IMMEDIATELY respectful and obedient, it's taser (defined: "torture") time!
I've always viewed the U.N as a corrupt orginization and an enemy of the US. I'm sure many agree.
Actually, the UN is pretty mild in what it does, mostly because the US set it up that way. If the UN actually were a democratic organization, the US and Europe would fare far worse. That's not "corruption", it's reality.
The best thing the US can do is listen to what the UN has to say, because sooner or later those impoverished and powerless people that make up the majority of the world's population are going to be not so impoverished and powerless anymore.
While I think that using tasers can be a better idea than guns or nightsticks, you've only got to watch youtube videos and TV shows like Cops to see how much American police abuse their use.
They seem far too quick to reach for the taser, and often use it as an immediate punishment for verbal non-compliance rather than to disable someone who is actually a physical threat.
So much for free speech.
They also regularly seem to shock the target continuously or multiple times sometimes rather than just administer enough to disable them.
I think the US cops could learn a lot by working with the UK cops who often don't even carry weapons. They know how to deal with the same problems the US cops deal with, but by talking and using their heads instead of escalating the violence by attacking first.
So, let me get this straight. Incurring a sudden electrical shock in the human body, a system that is a delicate balance of electric current, can harm the body. Got it.
Bearded Dragon
I don't care a whit for the temporal safety of police officers. They knew they were risking their lives when they signed up. What I do care about is citizens being free to go about their business without having to explain themselves or get searched because they look a little odd. The police will take things from your person without your consent, beat you, search your car, then lie on the report, just because they're paying child support to their two ex-wives and are angry at the world. That tape from the hood of the car? There's no reason it can't get lost. The judge will always rule in their cops' favour because they had a reasonable suspicion, and if you spend a few thousand dollars to go to appellate court, you MIGHT get some recourse. Hope you have a witness, and try not to ever jaywalk again.
My opinion is that there should be no protected class of people in whose presence your hands must be visible at all times, and whom it is a great offense to even touch. I take great exception to the idea that anyone should be allowed to stop me on the street at night and demand my wallet and weapons, as to let the peasants have weapons would create a threat to the social order. I have known cops to give law-abiding people a hard time because they had long hair, because they were skateboarding, because they were carrying a bag, and, yes, because they were black. Some of the cops who get away with this stuff are my personal friends. Many Americans have perfectly legitimate reasons to hate cops, and while my experiences have not led me to conclude that there should be no law enforcement, current police authority is overreaching. Those with power will always be insensitive to the humanity of those "below" them, but we shouldn't have this powerful, completely corrupt system backing them up.
It doesn't matter if it's on YouTube or LiveLeak or wherever. The citations that can be made for improper use of tasers are many. They've become an unfortunate and easy and deadly choice.
I understand that police officers are confronted with hell and tough choices, but they have to make the proper ones, and tasers ought to be a very last resort, not one that simply allows a cheap way out of a potentially hostile situation. I feel for peace officers, but tasers remove the peace from the officer at the increasing cost of lives that shouldn't have been taken under the circumstances. That poor Polish immigrant in Vancouver-- he didn't deserve to die. It granted judge-jury-executioner status to the mounties at Vancouver Airport. They are none of those. It's abhorrent.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
Is time worth a life? Can you wait a minute, potentially diffuse a situation, and save someone from dying?
Or is it: fuck it. Taser the sucker. I don't care if he/she croaks.
I know what kind of peace officer I'm willing to pay for: a little patience in the face of hostility. Tough to do. Might take a little patience and/or courage.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
a former deputy sheriff. Don't point a gun at something you don't mean to kill. In this case, a Taser is a GUN. The lack of regulation and procedures regarding their use is troubling. If the paperwork involved was half of what was needed after pulling a gun then the incidents of their use would go down.
I believe a Taser is a safer and effective weapon, but should be respected just as much as a firearm when its drawn.
In some places we're already there. The problem is, some cops honestly and truly want to help people, but they have a hard time because of the other cops. From the cops I know, they are already in the minority. The thing is, rules restricting cops from using tasers when no one is being threatened don't interfere with a normal cops duties at all and don't make their job any harder.
Have you ever asked yourself what it would take to make a Cop's job better?Better funding and better pay would be a start. Also, better rules so that the corrupt cops who just want to hurt people and control them are caught and fired so people begin to trust them again. Why would any cop who is honestly trying to help people object to being restricted from using a taser on a person who is no threat?
IIRC, 275 have died immediately following being shot with a Taser. In at least 30 cases the coroner has stated that the Tasering was the cause. The problem is that there is almost no way to absolutely prove the Taser was the cause. If a person has a heart weakness that has been with them their entire lives and has never caused problems yet kills them after being hit with the Taser, what is the cause?
A lot of cops don't know when it's appropriate to use either. If you want to be a LAW *ENFORCEMENT* Officer, you should be physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight (you know, like a boy scout!) The standards for police officers should be raised and their pay should be raised with it. The bad cops should be fired and there's a hell of a lot of them around the media lately.
I don't advocate the censure of Canada; but the issue seemed to have been Canada's treatment of natives and immigrants.... That such a motion 'nearly passed' says more about the decline of the status of Canada than about the UN.
As an immigrant to Canada I can definitely say that it is an extremely welcoming country in both its government and its people. Look at the outcry here that has resulted from the tasering incident in Vancouver. This was clearly not government instigated and it has shocked the Canadian public. To accuse Canada of human rights abuse because of this incident is simply insane.
It certainly does not show that Canada is in decline - it was simply a stunt by Iran to distract from its real human rights and nuclear issues! All it shows that the UN has a bureaucracy that allows stupid things to happen from time to time, like every other government in existence....but just because something can be abused does not mean that we'd be better off without it.
One of the people they came across was someone who had fallen asleep. When they woke him up and told him to leave the beach, he was a bit groggy, and slow to gather his stuff, get dressed and leave. ... so they tasered him.
Now, I don't think that a groggy (nearly) naked guy is the kind of situation where use of a baton would be considered reasonable force. I don't even think it would be considered reasonable to use a half-nelson on the guy. Hell, the only thing that they could do for him being too late on the beach was to give him a ticket.
| But he was tasered.
My only explanation is that they intended the tasering exactly as torture -- and an exemplary action to other beach users that you quickly comply with orders to get off the beach at the stroke of sunset or else!
Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
I think it's a psychological thing. There's no strong negative feedback to the person using the taser, there are no obvious marks being left on the victim, it is difficult for the victim to communicate just how painful the taser drive was to him, and the policemen consider the taser to be non-lethal. All that makes them highly likely to use tasers in situations where their use is entirely unnecessary.
Working as an EMT several years ago, I have personally had to restrain people suffering from hypoglycaemia -- a state very similar to what might be called "excited delirium". In one case, it took five men to hold down a homeless woman so that we could give her the live-saving glucose injection. Nevertheless, we managed to do so without hurting or even bruising her. For us her behaviour was easily explained by her blood-sugar levels, but I imagine a policeman without medical training would have taken her to be aggressive and might have thought it a good idea to taser her -- which certainly wouldn't have helped, given that she was already horribly agitated. The situations where I think Tasers are justified get fewer every day. I think it's about time we take this things out of our police officers' hands.
I guess you're innumerate since you can't tell that the US has double the rate per population as Canada at 275/300 million vs 17/35 million. The rest of your math is just as bad since you start comparing numbers that aren't the same (i.e. 30 US deaths where the coroner confirmed the taser vs. the 17 Canadian death count using criteria that more closely correlate the 275 US death count). Of course what really matters is how many police tasers are actually in use in each country.
The point is that the current Canadian death count is high enough that the policy for taser use is being reviewed for the RCMP and certain provincial police forces. Even in June, prior to the recent incident in the Vancouver airport, Paul Kennedy, the chair of the RCMP complaints committee had recommended changes to the way the RCMP use Tasers.
Generally, the RCMP are better educated and better trained than most US cops. So if the RCMP are misusing Tasers, I'd rather not think too hard about how your boys are abusing them down there.
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
The UN states that Tasering is a form of torture. Well and good. Does this mean that tasers cannot be used? I think not. Practically any weapon can be used as a form of torture, down to a billy-club. The problem is the people who wield the weapons, not the weapons themselves. This is the same issue encountered in gun-control. Some blame the guns and the gun-makers, but the problem is the humans wielding the guns. If guns didn't exist, if we lived in the Stone Age, it would be flint spears and wooden clubs. The problem is the sinful nature of Man, he will always find a way to inflict pain.
"one fool with a knife" (especially one who turns out to be on meth) may eventually be subdued by six officers. However, one of those police officers may not go home to their family that night (or, perhaps ever again). Knife wounds can be very lethal and can be inflicted in the initial stage of combat before the suspect is under control. Being a police officer is a job (and, not a great paying one at that). A police officer has no obligation to put themselves at substantial risk of dying just to make life more comfortable for a "fool with a knife". A police officer who stays "on the street" in a high crime area in the United States for 25 years can't take much risk on each encounter or the odds are that they will die "on the job" since they may encounter a situation where, without a tazer, they would need to engage in physical combat with "fools with knives" a few times each year (esp. as the bad guys figured out that the risk of being tazered or shot if they threatened officers with knives was minimal). Deciding to be a police officer should not be a "death sentence". We spend a lot of effort to protect workers in other hazardous jobs, police officers deserve the same.
As well, even if six officers attempt to subdue a suspect with a knife instead of tazering them, some percentage of those suspects will be injured or killed by accident also (ranging from broken bones, paralysis, or death by various means - esp. if the suspect has a medical weakness of some sort).
The notion that police can travel in "packs" of six in case it's necessary to detain a belligernet individual is absurd. Note that when someone is pulled over for a traffic stop and pulls out a knife, the officer in the car doesn't have time to call for backup - (s)he's got to deal with the knife now if the suspect is coming closer to them because backup is minutes away, the suspect is one or two seconds away at most. The notion that, for example, the California Highway Patrol can/should stop having one-person cars and instead have (perhaps?) minivans full of six officers is not cost effective and will result in a reduced ability to respond to situations such as a report of a drunk driver OR about six times the cost of labor.
It seems fairly rare that someone gets tazered when they are following an officer's instructions. Also, I suspect it's rare that being belligerent or threatening an officer actually makes one less likely to be arrested or detained. Hence, it's just stupid to be belligerent or threatening to an officer. There are obviously excesses here and there, but in the vast majority of the tazer cases I've heard of, the recipient worked pretty hard to get tazered.
Note that I'm not defending all uses of tazers (it's hard to imagine, for example, why a handcuffed suspect should be tazered) and policies, training, and disciplinary action should control the use of tazers a bit more than they are now.
Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading
Bright lights + white walls + a cell size of a small closet, where you cannot lie down, + night interrogations for 8 hours and after a few months strong people would sign confessions, which would be used to imprison their families and friends along with their own death warrants. That was widely practiced under Stalin.
Sleep deprivation is often more effective then pulling your fingernails because it breaks your will to fight.