Slashdot Mirror


Google Purges Thousands of Malware Sites

Stony Stevenson sends in word on the most massive "SEO poisoning" seen to date. The attack was directed at Google in particular and resulted in tens of thousands of Web pages hosting exploits showing up on the first page of Google searches for thousands of common terms (PDF). Sunbelt Software blogged about the attack on Monday after investigating it for months. By Wednesday Google had removed tens of thousands of malware-hosting pages from its index.

133 comments

  1. BBC News piece by MLCT · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7118452.stm

    The sites were targeting IE exploits.

    1. Re:BBC News piece by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative
      FTF Summary:

      Sunbelt Software blogged about the attack on Monday after investigating it for months. From Your BBC:

      "This was fairly epic," said Alex Eckelberry, head of Sunbelt Software - one of the firms that uncovered the attack.

      Mr Eckelberry said tens of thousands of domains, many based in China and only a couple of days old, were used in the vanguard of the attack.
      ...
      The booby-trapped websites were thought to be in operation for about 24 hours before Google began stripping them out of its search index. So which was it?
      Months of Google poisoning or just day(s)?
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:BBC News piece by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      The sites were targeting IE exploits.
      That means nothing. I hope you're not suggesting that it was somehow OK because they were targeting IE and not Firefox. I'm willing to go a long way with dislike of Microsoft, but when I see some sort of "If you use Windows you deserve what you get" argument, I start to think that someone has made a comment without thinking it through.

      Blaming the victim is ugly. I hope that's not what you are implying.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:BBC News piece by Brown · · Score: 1

      While I agree with the general point you were trying to make (that the victim shouldn't be blamed), I don't see any indications that the GP was in fact do so. He appears giving a purely factual statement about the software that is vulnerable to the attack, which I would have said is fairly basic information in a security/malware story. Arguably it's more surprising that the article summary didn't mention what was targeted...

      -Chris

    4. Re:BBC News piece by oliverthered · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I buy crap poor quality tools/cars/housing etc... I expect to injure myself, why should there be any difference with operating systems.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    5. Re:BBC News piece by Mike89 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They could've 'poisoned' Google for months (linked to domains that didn't exist yet), then set the domains up and waited a few days for Google to recrawl. Then again, I'd have thought pagerank would be age-based too. Those search requests are the kind that show up weird dodgy sites anyway (who searches any of those exact terms anyway?!)

    6. Re:BBC News piece by darthflo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most users of Windows and IE don't make a conscious decision to do so. It comes preloaded with a computer they buy, they don't question it. Blaming those users for using "poor quality software" (I, for one, find Windows XP a rather pleasant os to work with; IE on the other hand...) would be like blaming any driver for using "poor quality airbags" that came with his car or "poor quality doors" that came with his house after a break-in.
      Not everybody is interested in knowing details about every single one of his possessions. You, me and the rest of the /. crowd cares about computers, but a majority of people (wild guess) probably cares as much about their inner workings as I care about the inner workings of my dishwasher. It's a tool ideally fulfilling one or more given tasks (e.g. "get stock quotes" or "clean my dirty dishes") and is to be professionally serviced upon failure to do so. Installing a more secure browser like Opera may be just as good an idea as adding multi-stage UltraSplash 3D cleaning rotors but as long as I can put dirty dishes in and get 'em out clean I wouldn't know why I should care.

    7. Re:BBC News piece by Eivind · · Score: 2

      No sense in blaming victims, I agree.

      There's sometimes sense in telling people: "By doing X you can decrease the chance that you'll be a victim" though.

    8. Re:BBC News piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So which was it?
      Months of Google poisoning or just day(s)?


      They could have been registering more domains every day for months :O

      (If I roll a 20 on an int check, does my critical thought do double damage?)

    9. Re:BBC News piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So which was it?

      I'd go with the BBC on this one. Slashdot summaries are far from reliable anymore.

    10. Re:BBC News piece by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      I use Linux. Its like walking in to someone's house and it promptly collapses on top of me.
      The idiots who use Windows affect me indirectly which is really annoying since their computers are sending me spam and brute forcing my servers.

    11. Re:BBC News piece by Inda · · Score: 4, Funny

      I search for 'fetch doggy go go go go go microsoft vpn excel' all the time. The top result was my favourite site until this happened.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    12. Re:BBC News piece by Alexeck · · Score: 5, Informative

      So which was it? Months of Google poisoning or just day(s)? It wasn't "months". I think that confusion came from a subsequent blog post we made where we talked about having tracked _comment spam_ bots for months. This attack was only a matter of days. A number of the domains involved, for example, were registered on the 24th or 25th of November. Alex Eckelberry Sunbelt

    13. Re:BBC News piece by jrp2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      "The idiots who use Windows affect me indirectly which is really annoying since their computers are sending me spam and brute forcing my servers."

      The most common brute-force attack I see on my IPS are ssh brute-force attacks coming from *nix servers that have been compromised. From what I understand, those ssh brute force attacks are highly effective.

      I am no fan of Windows either, but I think that might be a stretch to blame Windows for the bulk of brute-force attacks.

      Spam, absolutely.

      --
      The only athletic sport I ever mastered was backgammon - Douglas William Jerrold
    14. Re:BBC News piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Arguably it's more surprising that the article summary didn't mention what was targeted..."

      How many time in the past has major news reported "a computer virus". It is almost always generic like that without mentioning brand names. The same is not true for other products. I guess ad revenue is a major influence, reports are clueless or Microsoft's influence reaches deep.

    15. Re:BBC News piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're partially correct. Its also because of brand recognition & lack of education. If you need a car, sure you don't care about how the engine works but you do want to know about its safety rating, mileage (security , performance ?) if your kids will fit in the back ( peripheral/ram upgrades?) and the like. The reason is because the average person is educated by advertisements, tv shows and the like and so far its not "nerdy" to be into cars to care about what tires or car stereo your buddy uses. It is unfortunately nerdy to care about the internals of the computer that enables you to handle your bank account transactions, personal documents, family albums. Unless its "cool" to talk about them in mass-media or among non-computer savvy friends things wont change much.

    16. Re:BBC News piece by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      If I misuse or use inappropriately tools/cars/housing etc... I expect to injure myself...

      Fixed it for you. The actual brand of tools/cars/housing should be irrelevant. Are you saying there is no way you could injure yourself by using "quality" tools, even by using them incorrectly? If so that is preposterous.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    17. Re:BBC News piece by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      Most brute forces I see are just random guesses at default accounts.
      Its more expensive than a normal brute force so I assume its Windows boxes.

    18. Re:BBC News piece by lgw · · Score: 1

      Are you saying there is no way you could injure yourself by using "quality" tools, even by using them incorrectly? If so that is preposterous. Raise your expectations. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/436740/safesaw
      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    19. Re:BBC News piece by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      Would be like blaming any driver for using "poor quality airbags" that came with his car or "poor quality
      doors" that came with his house after a break-in.


      Exactly, if I'm going to live in an area with a Highish level of crime I'm sure as hell going to make sure that my house has high security doors and windows, the 'idiots' who didn't will obviously get broken into when I don't and yes they could have prevented it so it's partly their fault, just like the police telling you not to leave laptops in the boot of your car or anything on display because if you do your just 'asking' for trouble.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    20. Re:BBC News piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who cares if you are being spammed or brute-forced by Windows machines. You run Linux, so you are invulnerable to any sort of attack! Bring it on!

    21. Re:BBC News piece by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying that I can't injure myself using quality tools, I'm just saying that I expect to injure myself more using poor quality ones.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    22. Re:BBC News piece by morcego · · Score: 1

      From what I understand, those ssh brute force attacks are highly effective.


      Maybe because the administrators of so many servers are morons. They either set stupid passwords for root, or allow their users to pick easy passwords.

      Disabling plain-text auth is also a very good idea. Disabling direct root login via ssh, even better.
      --
      morcego
    23. Re:BBC News piece by Tarlus · · Score: 1

      The sites were targeting IE exploits. Well, if we're talking about exploits by the thousands, they'd have to be targeting IE.
      --
      /* No Comment */
    24. Re:BBC News piece by stacey7165 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you kidding? Blaming Windows for this? Microsoft may be an evil giant in your eyes, but what about blaming the people behind the attack? Computers as I know it still take code written by humans to do things both good and evil. This is the moral equivalent of blaming the manufacturer of a knife in a stabbing case.

      Operating systems are the least of your issues.

    25. Re:BBC News piece by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I have seen this before. Next time I want to make tiny cuts in hot dogs, I'll use one. But for the record, you would still be injured by one of these, just not as bad as with a regular saw...

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    26. Re:BBC News piece by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...would be like blaming any driver for using "poor quality airbags" that came with his car...
      That may be true for Windows XP airbags, but when you have Internet Explorer brakes, you're going to find out in a hurry just how poor the quality of your airbags is.
    27. Re:BBC News piece by Neanderthal+Ninny · · Score: 1

      Similar to "Kool-Aid" in Jonestown Guyana or Heaven's Gate in San Diego, CA?

    28. Re:BBC News piece by lgw · · Score: 1

      Have you seen the show where the inventer gets the courage to stick his hand in the blade? He gets a tiny nick, and needs a bandaid. Having seen what happens when someone sticks their hand in a normal table saw, I'd never let anyone I cared about use one.

      Anyway, the point is: you *can* make tools safe (especially the software kind), it's just a question of cost and ingenuity.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    29. Re:BBC News piece by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      True, but the fact that Microsoft has allowed these kinds of problems to persist for well over a decade does put some of the culpability on them. After all, they've been claiming every release of their software to be more secure. It's only recently that that's actually started being true.

      Does anyone remember the great "security audit" of all of Microsoft's software, when they (claimed to have) stopped all development for a month or more to address security problems. That was in 2000. Security in Windows actually got a lot worse before it started getting better around 2005 or so. Almost a decade later after their great security push they are still just starting to get it under control, mostly by releasing a new operating system that is more secure because of a whole bunch of new features, but mostly because it's so awful no one wants to use it. Now _that's_ computer security. Actually, it's a real problem because if Vista weren't a big steaming pile of hate for users, fewer people would be using the older problematic versions of Windows (i.e., anything in the Win9x line, Windows 2000 and pre-SP2 XP).

      There were a number of car wrecks because of Firestone tires a few years back. If people didn't heed the recall, and their car was damaged from a blowout of a defective tire, they could be at least partially blamed. But who is to blame if Firestone were still making bad tires 10 years later?

      Microsoft is most certainly to blame when their sieve-like security allows so many millions of Windows computers to compromised for nefarious means.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    30. Re:BBC News piece by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Well, the real questions are - How often do you use a table saw, and How much do these things cost? Sure for businesses where accidents can be costly I'm sure the accident reduction would be well worth the higher price. But really, I use my table saw a couple times a year at most, and while doing it my brain is absolutely screaming "BE CAREFUL! DO NOT CUT ANYTHING OFF!" the entire time...

      I think you can make tools "safer", but no matter how "safe" some idiot will find a way to misuse it and injure themselves. Just remember the Douglas Adams quote -
      "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."

      P.S. I wonder how many hot dogs were cut before the owner had the nerve to use his own hand
      P.P.S. I wonder how many shot of whiskey were drank before the owner had the nerve to use his own hand

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    31. Re:BBC News piece by AnonymousCactus · · Score: 1

      Then again, I'd have thought pagerank would be age-based too.
      Pagerank includes age, but being new is often a bonus because new can be more relevant - think news, new content, etc.
    32. Re:BBC News piece by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      If you need a car, sure you don't care about how the engine works
      Isn't there some penalty for using an automotive metaphor for computing?
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    33. Re:BBC News piece by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      The irony here is that the web servers were expoited to push out the malicious code. Lots of unix webservers out there.

    34. Re:BBC News piece by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Maybe because the administrators of so many servers are morons. They either set stupid passwords for root....

      Disabling direct root login via ssh, even better. I should point out that the SSH worm I've seen just sets up a spam zombie without even trying to gain root access.

      or allow their users to pick easy passwords. I got bit, because I created a temporary account I had only planned to use for about an hour or so before deleting. I used the username "temp" with the password "temp123". Then I forgot to delete the account when I was done. Two weeks later my ISP forwarded me a complaint.

      So yeah, don't do that... but the worm also tries a lot of other common usernames, and if you have a lot of users, some of them are likely to be valid. I have no idea what passwords it tries, but if it wasn't successful pretty often, we wouldn't have this problem.

      Disabling plain-text auth is also a very good idea. Did you mean disabling password authentication? Sure, public key authentication is great, if you only have a few hosts you'll be logging in from, but if you have a lot of users or a lot of client machines, that's probably not the way to go. I suppose there are other options, but I must confess I've never used them and have no idea what the security implications would be. Does that make me a moron?
      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  2. Sounds Good To Me by usul294 · · Score: 2

    Sounds good, I'm glad someone is actively trying to make the internet a safer place for people in general, as well as cleaning up search pages for people who can spot malware sites from the search engine. This is also good for Google, thanks to their fantastic business model: "the more people who use the internet on a regular basis, the more money we make".

    1. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Andrew+Nagy · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm probably too late on this discussion, but I thought something needed to be said. I work in online marketing (no, that doesn't mean I am a spammer) and I think this speaks volumes about what Google is hard-pressed to admit. The system can still be gamed. And it seems to me that no matter what Google does to improve their algorithm, the system will still be vulnerable to gaming.

      In part, I think this has to do with the oddness that is their ranking strategy. They want to find the most relevant sites for any given query. So they study online behavior and adjust their algorithm to reflect that behavior. At the same time, they publish "guidelines" on how webmasters should design their sites and link out/in. It seems like they're trying to influence how websites behave online and then say that they're picking up on the organic trends. But in the end, they generate the trends. And then they tell everyone how to do it. Because of this, the system will always be vulnerable.

      Until, that is, PigeonRank(TM) is launched.

      --
      Yes, you can dance to Radiohead.
    2. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Hatta · · Score: 1

      This just makes me wonder where the news item was when Google indexed all these sites in the first place.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Sounds Good To Me by noldrin · · Score: 1

      Seeing as Google has been warn of poisoning before and refuses action, or that Google was long warned about proxy hacking and refused action, I'm not about to pat them on their back for not actually fixing their stuff and instead just trying trying to clean up the major incidents after a couple of days. If Microsoft acted like that, people would go into hysterics, let alone patting them on the back. And this comes from someone who loves Google and hates Microsoft.

    4. Re:Sounds Good To Me by mikew03 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If this is the best spammers can do against Google I think we should be more impressed than concerned. Apparently most of these sites were up only a few days before being removed. And although they did manage to get on page 1 did anyone else notice how bad the site summaries looked? You'ld have to be a total idiot to click on any of those results even if they were page one.

    5. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Andrew+Nagy · · Score: 1

      Well that's what scares me. If a bunch of morons can game the system for a few days with horrible meta info, what could some serious SEO-ers do? What have they already done? Can I really trust most of Google's results?

      I tend to browse Google results with McAfee SiteAdvisor installed as a plugin. I don't particularly like McAfee, but I do like being able to see reputations of sites before I click on them. Of course, if McAfee hasn't tested the site yet, I accept the risk.

      --
      Yes, you can dance to Radiohead.
    6. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Sounds good, I'm glad someone is actively trying to make the internet a safer place for people in general...

      This is actually another scary example of Google being more and more evil. Think, if the US government had the DNS servers point that domain to a "This is a known malware" site, slashdot would be up in arms. But when a private corporation removes it from their index that's a good thing?

      I believe in net neutrality, and I believe in search engine neutrality as well. That is, just as AT&T should not be able to throttle traffic from those sites, Google should not be able to remove them from their results (for being malware sites).

      It's a tricky line to walk, but Google is powerful, and when powerful people start removing options/information "for my protection" I get nervous. While nothing forces me to use Google, they have (or maybe had?) the best algorithim. So, if Google slowly destroys their search algorithim for monetary/political reasons, we lose the best option available.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    7. Re:Sounds Good To Me by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      How often does this happen? Do you routinely see Phishing sites in the first 5 pages when googling? If not I would say google is doing their job admirably. Not to mention that although this went on for a few days (as in sites were continued to be added for a period of days) that the sites were out of the rankings within 24 hours. That's impressive, for such a large scale attack on Googles ranking system they only managed to get into the top page for less than 24 hours. I remember some of the old search engines were so gamed that you couldn't find a decent search result in the first 10 pages. With an attack of this size, with the amount of domains used, and the coordination of it all (it probably took a number of people working full time to register the domains, set them up and get the metadata/site in place and get the google-bot to hit them and the best they got was a top page (not number one listing) rank for 24 hours. Not only that but the with the summary that showed up and the domain listed I bet hardly any of them got clicked as it was obvious they were just plain garbage. In fact it was probably so obvious human tips probably came in immediately (as opposed to routine bot scans).

      I'm amazed it went that quickly, frankly it would have taken any other site/search engine a month to fix and google had it fixed in 24 hours is a testament to how good they really are.

    8. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Reaperducer · · Score: 1

      Seeing as Google has been warn of poisoning before and refuses action
      How do you know Google "refuses" to do anything about it? Because you don't see something doesn't mean work isn't being done behind the scenes. Do you work at Google and know first-hand that it intentionally isn't working on the problem? If not, then STFU and go peddle your Microsoft apologies elsewhere.
      --
      -- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
    9. Re:Sounds Good To Me by noldrin · · Score: 1

      I know because the problem has been given to them over a year ago and still exists. Perhaps you should go learn something before you flame. Then perhaps your posts might mean something.

    10. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Reaperducer · · Score: 1

      Just because it exists doesn't mean it isn't being worked on. I'm still waiting for your proof that Google "refuses" to do anything about it.

      And as for flames, you're the one throwing around baseless accusations. Get some proof, or get off.

      --
      -- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
    11. Re:Sounds Good To Me by noldrin · · Score: 1
      So if Google doesn't comment on a problem, then it's completely absolved of all responsibility because perhaps somewhere somebody might be working to fix it? I was hoping that you might go out and learn on your own the history of Google ignoring problems. So here is an overview. Google bombing started in 2000 or before. This is the core of what makes attacks like we saw this week work. Google's response to this problem had been consistently that it wasn't their problem.

      "We don't condone the practice of Google bombing, or any other action that seeks to affect the integrity of our search results, but we're also reluctant to alter our results by hand in order to prevent such items from showing up. Pranks like this may be distracting to some, but they don't affect the overall quality of our search service, whose objectivity, as always, remains the core of our mission." -- Marissa Mayer, Director of Consumer Web Products for Google, Sept 2005.

      It wasn't till January of this year that they started taking steps to fix it, 8 years after the problem started. http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2007/01/quick-word-about-googlebombs.html Yet as we saw this week, people are still getting hit with malware sites.

      302 Jacking was another problem that Google was warned of for around 2 years, and it wasn't fixed (well sort of fixed, still somewhat exists) till Google themselves got hit: http://blog.searchenginewatch.com/blog/050526-084634

      Now we have Google Proxy Hacking. They were warned of this in June 2006, still hasn't been fixed, and they have made no indications of doing so. http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/google-proxy-hacking

      So yes, let's just sit back and trust that they are putting some of their vast resources into fixing a problem, but exactly what have they done to earn this sort of good faith?

    12. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Reaperducer · · Score: 1

      I see nothing in there from Google stating that they "refuse" to fix the problem. It's nice that you posted a bunch of blog links to other problems, but none of them back up your original flame.

      --
      -- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
    13. Re:Sounds Good To Me by noldrin · · Score: 1

      If you say so, that is your opinion, but you have given nothing to back it up.

    14. Re:Sounds Good To Me by Reaperducer · · Score: 1

      I have made no assertions. I have nothing to back up. I'm still waiting for you to back up your claim. Do you "refuse" to back them up because you can't because they're untrue?

      --
      -- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
  3. Re:Some, but not all.... by Albanach · · Score: 3, Informative

    Google can still screw you over
    That's another goatse link for those of you still sleepy at this time of the morning...
  4. all your base by Kranfer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yay! No more Malware, I always hated gettng horrible search results that hosted these things. I am glad that Google said to them, "All your base are belong to us" or maybe, "Resistance is Futile" is more along the lines I am looking for. When will their crawlers automatically disqualify ALL sites that contain malware though? That would be nifty.

    --
    -- Josh
    "Whoopie! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but that's a long one for me!" - Pete Conrad
    1. Re:all your base by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When will their crawlers automatically disqualify ALL sites that contain malware though? That would be nifty.

      I don't think it would be possible. I linked to a turing test program I wrote called "art.exe" from my Artificial Insanity page that I hosted on another site I owned (which I since have let lapse). The only way a crawler would know that this program was benign was because it isn't listed in any of the antivirus lists of viral signatures.

      What would be nice is if Google would have its crawlers automatically check pages as they crawled. If there were any known malwars the page would be blacklsted. But there's no way I can think of to flag malware that hasn't been identified as such by humans.

      -mcgrew

      PS:)downside would be that you couldn't find microsoft.com (Foghorn Leghorn says...)
      PPS: I've been mulling over rewriting the Artificial Insanity program in javascript. But I'm having a hard time finding the time.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    2. Re:all your base by Nossie · · Score: 1

      So google decides that one of its competitors is malware and purges all existence of them...

      I'm thinking an independent body would be better deciding what is and what is not malware.

    3. Re:all your base by Mathinker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > When will their crawlers automatically disqualify ALL sites that contain malware though?

      Not possible; even disregarding the problem that other posters have raised, that the automatic recognition of novel malware is more or less impossible, most of the black hats setting up these sites have started to get really sophisticated and the servers can return different web pages based on IP addresses, and often never serve up exploits more than once to any given IP address.

      Like everything in the security game, it's cat-and-mouse.

    4. Re:all your base by darthflo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nothing (except antitrust law, maybe) stops Google from "forgetting to include" live.com in it's indexes now and this situation is quite unlikely to change in the near future. The only two reasons I think of as relevant to leave competitors in are the outrage from both the internet community and the "forgotten" competitor (perhaps culminating in lawsuits for anti-competitive behaviour, IANAL) and the desire for the own index to be perceived as fair and complete.

      An independent body deciding about the malness of any ware is, if a certain responsiveness could be guaranteed, a creepy idea. Forming such a commitee would very surely be a huge leap in the direction of an often-mentioned TCPA (Palladium, NGSCB, Donkey poop)-secured blacklist society. A small aristocraty of people in this decision commitee would become the target of a trillion-dollar industry and be able to decide exactly what piece of software is ran by anybody. On the other hand, allowing anybody to participate in these votes would guarantee this operation not to be effective because of the huge delay this would cause. The same goes for adding legal ways to fight a decision by this body - having one would cause the system to become as slow as many legal systems throughout the world are today, not having one would be a surefire way to cause dissatisfaction with lots and lots of developers (both natural and legal persons).
      Also, don't forget to take into account the current legal trouble e.g. encryption software is going through. I'm certain an independent body would decide similar to lawmakers throughout the world. Essentially, you could probably forget about running Linux (Open Source? That could run anything, including highly illegal tools like decss without any way to stop it), any cd/dvd copying software (It's fun to break the D-M-C-A (sung to the tune of YMCA)), nmap (Remember germany banning "Hacker tools"?) or anything else.

      Sorry for painting such a dystopian future, but letting any (independent, governmental or profit-oriented) body whatsoever decide what software's good and what's bad just isn't what you, me or most anybody else wants.

    5. Re:all your base by toleraen · · Score: 1

      Well, google does provide the blacklisted phishing sites for Firefox, but no one seems to be complaining...

    6. Re:all your base by Nossie · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I do agree... and maybe an independent body would just become corrupt like the rest of them BUT.

      In googles interest, they are a search engine and not a publisher and for that reason are not subject to the indexes of child porn and other illegal activity. Once google start going down the road of blocking spam and other malicious sites it could be suggested they lose the right of being an automatic aggregation engine.

      All the The pirate bay does is index pointer links, all google does is index pointer links -- one of them has a safe harbour in the US and the other does not. How long before Google itself loses its 'safe harbour' ?

    7. Re:all your base by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The onus lies with the browser not the search engine. I would love a Firefox plugin that removes patentstorm, freepatentsonline, encyclopedia britanica, elsevier and all those other for-pay parasites that clutter up the first three pages of any scientific search I do. In fact, if I don't find one soon I'm going to write and release it myself.

    8. Re:all your base by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The onus lies with the browser not the search engine.

      What would the browser know about your search results? It's just a page
      being returned via HTTP.

      Most search engines offer a means of excluding domains; for example,
      this will search for ``entropy'' excluding English-language Wikipedia
      pages:

      www.alltheweb.com/search?advanced=1&cat=web&q=entropy&dexcl=en.wikipedia.org

    9. Re:all your base by halcyon1234 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Easy enough. Google has access to a massive amount of IP addresses and computer resources. All they need to do is set up a whole bunch of virtual machines that have no protection on them at all. Those virtual machines can start visiting indexed pages (using a rotating set of IP addresses so the target website doesn't know they're being "tested"). If a machine gets infected, it will be very easy to spot. Something will have installed on that machine. A rootkit or a adware install is fairly obvious, even to a machine. If a VM changes, and the "infection" is machine identifiable, then that site should be dropped. If the machine gets installed on, but can't identify, that site should be flagged. At that point, a human Google engineer loads a VM, visits the site, and takes a human-look at what happened. If it's A Bad Thing, they drop the site and add the signature of the install to their Kill On Site list. Then the VM gets reset, and continues on.

    10. Re:all your base by Andrew+Nagy · · Score: 1

      Google results for the query "Search Engine"

      You'll fine search.live.com on the second page. Below Google (who's also on the second page).

      --
      Yes, you can dance to Radiohead.
    11. Re: All your base by F4_W_weasel · · Score: 1

      I for now welcome your Malware killers overlords... all in all, by doing so they are actually doing their jobs sparing processing time and hard-drive workload with phony data. yeah it maigh be not much, but when you put this in multi-million-access scale. It benefits both Google and its users.

    12. Re:all your base by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      A rootkit or adware would be obvious, but what of trojans? A trojan has to be explicitly installed by a user; there would be no way for the bot to tell if the suspected trojan was doing what it was advertised to do or not, even if it did something egregious. I mean, make a batch file with the single DOS command "deltree /y C:\*.*" named "NakedLady.jpg.BAT an you have a simple trojan that will delete every file and directory on a user's machine, provided the user leaves Microsoft's stupid default "hide extension" and wants to view a photo of a naked lady. How would a bot catch this? "Deltree" is a useful command, and batch files are also useful.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    13. Re:all your base by halcyon1234 · · Score: 1

      I don't think Google really can protect against Trojans. There isn't a security system advanced enough to fix a chair-to-keyboard interface error. But they can detect flybys and sites that intend to exploit the user with some sort of auto-run code, or buffer overflow, or something that no legitimate site would do to a user (without warning or proof of concept).

    14. Re:all your base by CmSpuD · · Score: 1

      I take it you've read today's XKCD then? ;D http://xkcd.com/

  5. They've also changed their PageRank for many sites by garcia · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Recently (end of October) Google reordered some of their sites and dropped the PageRank on many (mine included) there was a blog post about it here. My PageRank suffered immensely dropping from an overall high of 6/10 to the now 3/10. The most noticeable difference for me was that for the next two weeks (and the first time ever) I was no longer the #1 hit for: Bill Roehl, "Bill Roehl", or any variation thereof. Not only that but the first result from Google wasn't even for my root page, it was for some post I had underneath. I found that to be very odd.

    Now, while I was digging through the Google results to find out why this could have possibly happened (prior to reading the blog post linked above) I found tons of SEO spam sites that my site had been linked from. I had never seen that many junk results returned before and was surprised they were getting through. I was seriously concerned that they had something to do w/my ranking drop.

    At least Google is getting back on track dumping those bastards. While most people probably don't change their default settings to see anything more than the first 10 results, I am constantly looking through the first 100 on various searches and have seen more and more of that. I was wondering if some of the claims of Google's drop from #1 would imminent if something didn't change.

  6. I for one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...welcome any move towards private pwnership of IE users.

  7. Malware -- hosting pages! by sm62704 · · Score: 1

    Google had removed tens of thousands of malware - hosting pages from its index.

    Wierd, usually it's tha pages that are hosting malware, rather than the other way around. OW! Stop hitting me!

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  8. Re:Some, but not all.... by rvw · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Google can still screw you over
    That's another goatse link for those of you still sleepy at this time of the morning... And you are awake now?
  9. The keywords .. by ninjeratu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    .. do not look like random words from a generator. They look targetted too with all the references to Microsoft software, Cisco, VPN. But then .. "train a dog to fetch" and "go go go go go go go go go go go"? Anyone have any ideas as to why and how they made that list?

    --
    /* Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana */
    1. Re:The keywords .. by Skrynesaver · · Score: 1

      They seem to be targeting Accountants and DBAs who work from home today and will go back inside the corporate firewall tomorrow. Oh and dog trainers for some reason

      --
      "Linux is for noobs"-The new MS fud strategy
    2. Re:The keywords .. by gzerphey · · Score: 2, Funny

      I remember hearing something about the Windows random number generator...

      --
      I don't have a microwave. I do, however, have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
  10. And what's SEO? by allcar · · Score: 3, Informative

    For those of you, like me, who did not immediately recognise this TLA, it stands for Search Engine Optimization.

    1. Re:And what's SEO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For those of you who didn't recognize the language the parent post is written in, it's English and also that thing that you're sitting on is a chair.

    2. Re:And what's SEO? by jahknow · · Score: 1

      Oh, I see what you did there.

      --
      ^^
    3. Re:And what's SEO? by fbjon · · Score: 1

      I was thinking Short Earth Orbit, like SpaceShipOne.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  11. Censoring by Fredtalk · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sounds like net censorship to me! What if I wanted to visit those malware sites?

    1. Re:Censoring by giorgiofr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Type in the URL and off you go. Or am I missing something? It's not like they rooted the boxes and took them down.

      --
      Global warming is a cube.
    2. Re:Censoring by Deanalator · · Score: 1

      Getting removed from the google index is almost as bad :-)

    3. Re:Censoring by palegray.net · · Score: 1

      Maybe try Google.ru? Perhaps they haven't, ahem... filtered their directory content as comprehensively (cue the obligatory Soviet Russia jokes)...

    4. Re:Censoring by anwyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one.

    5. Re:Censoring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like net censorship to me! What if I wanted to visit those malware sites?

      They are probably still available via archive.org and Google's cache :)

    6. Re:Censoring by The+Good+Reverend · · Score: 1

      All you missed was the humor.

    7. Re:Censoring by JK_the_Slacker · · Score: 1

      No, but I did. You'd think link whores would keep up with the latest IIS patches. Sheesh.

      --
      I'm waiting for a "-1 somepeoplejustshouldn'tgetmodprivileges" meta-moderation.
  12. GOATSE I'M FEELING LUCKY REDIRECT by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For the startings to a cure, see here:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=373765&cid=21513421

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  13. Re:PD fucking F !!!???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are marketing towards the pointy haired crowd?

  14. A hidden gem by dotancohen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The pdf contains a list of 2161 popular Google search terms. This is an SEO wet dream. Thanks!

    --
    It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    1. Re:A hidden gem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And when every site is "search engine optimized," it'll go back to being a level playing field.

    2. Re:A hidden gem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't they just be using this?

  15. No no no you got the meme wrong by sm62704 · · Score: 1

    I, for one, welcome our new IE pwned overlords!

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  16. Thousands of terms? by peipas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is it just me or do the first five pages of "common terms" in the PDF contain the term Excel, and then the next four pages contain the term vpn? It seems to me there were two common terms in these first nine pages with random words tacked on.

    1. Re:Thousands of terms? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you're right. So, really, all you had to do was search for "excel" and "vpn" and pretty much get these malware sites.

  17. Second to last one by bchapp · · Score: 1

    "if u a dog go fetch"

    1. Re:Second to last one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, really popular search terms such as

      "yo goggy go fetch dude"

      But how could they miss

      "fetch VPN cisco with exel jobs dudely"

  18. Google guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Google employees are quick to jump on Slashdot stories and get their spin and mods in. The "Go Google!" posts are coming in quick. The fact is that the first page of Google results has as much spam today as an AOL inbox back in 1995. The results have turned to junk.

  19. Re:Some, but not all.... by toleraen · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wide awake.

  20. Bad news for... by Tastecicles · · Score: 2, Funny

    tech support. Now what're we supposed to do over the holiday season? Boxshift?

    --
    Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  21. Little difference by Armakuni · · Score: 2, Funny

    From the summary: tens of thousands of Web pages hosting exploits showing up on the first page of Google searches for thousands of common terms

    So, how do you tell the difference between this and any normal Google results page?

    --
    That's not Picasso, that's Kandinsky!
  22. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by Billosaur · · Score: 1

    At least Google is getting back on track dumping those bastards. While most people probably don't change their default settings to see anything more than the first 10 results, I am constantly looking through the first 100 on various searches and have seen more and more of that. I was wondering if some of the claims of Google's drop from #1 would imminent if something didn't change.

    Well, they may be getting back at them, but...

    Ironically, Google itself refused to confirm or deny that it had cleansed its index of the more than 40,000 malware hosting sites, or even that they had existed. "Google takes the security of our users very seriously, especially when it comes to malware," a company spokeswoman said today in an e-mail. "In our search results, we try to warn users of potentially dangerous sites when we know of them. Sites that clearly exploit browser security holes to install software, such as malware, spyware, viruses, adware and Trojan horses, are in violation of the Google quality guidelines and may be removed from Google's index."

    What is Google afraid of? That their stock price will plunge if everyone finds out they were manipulated by malware sites?

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
  23. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was no longer the #1 hit for: Bill Roehl, "Bill Roehl", or any variation thereof. Perhaps there is simply someone else who is better at being Bill Roehl than you. Don't fret, though. You can always go back to Bill Roehl School and brush up with some post-graduate Bill Roehl stuff.

    Personally, I'm comfortable with the fact that I'm only the second-best me out there. Let that other fella have his glory, because I'm never going back to the Rob Vincent Academy. I'm not going into it here, but those bastards Rob, Rob, and Rob know why.
  24. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by garcia · · Score: 1

    It had nothing to do with that. The two sites that outranked mine were pointing back to me. That's why it made no sense.

  25. Yahoo and LiveSearch, too... by Foolicious · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...if my eyes and brain RTFA correctly. I recognize Google is the big(gest) player, but it's not like the purveyors of fine malware focused exclusively on Google and Google alone. It's in TFA if you're willing to take a look-see.

    --
    Please don't use "umm" or "err" or "erm".
  26. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by foobsr · · Score: 1

    dropped the PageRank on many (mine included)

    They also removed your /. ''homepage'', as they did with mine (for whatever reason).

    search

    CC.

    --
    TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
  27. Humm. Who did Gates pay off this time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No doubt that something like this has money behind it. And while Yahoo will profit from it, they have ethics. OTH, Gates has proven that he has none and anything goes. I wonder if this originated in some bastard SCO operation.

  28. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your website hurts my eyes...

  29. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by garcia · · Score: 1

    I never noticed that in my results before.

  30. Not everything is better with the brand you know. by twitter · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Hmmm, it's been about seven years since my browser looked like this. What does that blog say about it?

    Clicking on these links will expose the user to exploits which will infect a vulnerable system (in other words, a system that is not fully up-to-date with the latest patches).

    Those are all Microsoft Windows problems but neither of those words shows up anywhere in the articles. Instead, Google and the user are blamed. Nice.

    The less Windoze there is, the better off everyone is. Malware links are an annoyance to everyone and they directly threaten Google's business model. Google is taking care of their search listings, not making the internet safe for crappy software. We would all be better off without the crappy software that powers criminal botnets powerful enough to manipulate Google but the internet will never be a safe place for Windows.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  31. Stalinism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    What about the rights of those spammers? They're living in an impoverished third world country (Russia) and are just trying for a better life. They're no different than the home shopping network or eBay.

    And you won't tolerate them. You deny them their civil rights. You deny them their FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

    This is outright Stalinism. It's not their fault fat, stupid, bored, lonely Americans will buy products geared toward the intelligence of a labrador. They're just trying to feed their families... to be part of the AMERICAN DREAM.

    You Stalinists and your purges, your nights of the long knives, you're endangering the freedom of all of us. If you purge spammers from Google, the terrorists win.

  32. Re:Some, but not all.... by detex · · Score: 1

    well, that will throw the compliance ladys for a trip.

    sweet

    --
    I should move to F@%*$&% Canada.
  33. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by foobsr · · Score: 1

    They seem to consider the link from there as 'spam' as they seem to have removed all those who link to a page, even a fellow who links to debian. Twenty years down the road they consider which words are appropriate and which are to be avoided (of course based on an objective a sophisticated semantic weighting scheme(tm)) to get indexed.

    CC.

    --
    TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
  34. "Site Advisor" - any make it past it ? by pg--az · · Score: 1

    For many months I have been using "Site Advisor", still free from McAfee. It works perfectly with FireFox. I searched for "Advisor" and did not find mention of it in these articles, but I would be surprised if any of these sites earned that nice green dot which I find so reassuring, am I wrong to be so reassured ?

  35. My one wish for Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Let me create a blacklist of domains that are never shown on search results.

    This would then include the sites: *.cn
    which would include:

    bucket.rabbitexothermicsoup.cn
    flight.othersittingport.cn
    aggressive.xeroxmaneshop.cn

    Also the top 40 search result domains for 'geforce 8800gt review' or any other product, the content of which is typically:

    Reviews for Geforce 8800GT: (0)
    Click here to write your review for Geforce 8800GT

    1. Re:My one wish for Google by LameAssTheMity · · Score: 1
  36. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by markswims2 · · Score: 1

    have no fear, you'll soon be back and better than ever! Bill Roehl is now being searched more than ever thanks to slashdotters.

  37. Re:Not everything is better with the brand you kno by dedazo · · Score: 1

    Hmmm, it's been about seven years since my browser looked like this

    If your browser looked like that then I'm pretty sure PEBKC, because mine sure as hell never did.

    --
    Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
  38. So basically don't visit any sites from .cn by bogie · · Score: 1

    That's my advice as part of the solution to cut down on malware. Of course there are millions of .com malware sites, but you can't just cut out .com. On the other hand with rare exception, most people can without penalty stay away from .cn sites.

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
  39. I'm tagging this article 'Windows' by Burz · · Score: 1

    Still waiting for the day when Slashdot stops posting articles about exploits that have no mention of the OS in the summary...

  40. Don't CLick by Bryansix · · Score: 1

    This guys has been posting Goatse for days. Can we get a ban here?

  41. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by garcia · · Score: 1

    Actually, I've already regained the top spot within a few weeks of that PageRank drop. My post was just talking about the general weirdness that was occurring around that time.

    There have only been 12 Google Searches for [B|b]ill [R|r]oehl today though. Not nearly enough to stroke my ego ;)

  42. Re:Not everything is better with the brand you kno by RudeIota · · Score: 1
    + Mod parent insightful...

    I think noticing that Google gets the burden of squashing spyware sites that exploit Internet Explorer without ANY mention of MS or IE is a unique perspective.

    --
    Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
  43. Google still hasn't fixed their open redirector by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative

    After reading this, I immediately checked to see if Google had fixed their open redirector. No, they haven't, and there are six exploits of it listed in PhishTank. Google needs to turn that off. If they absolutely insist on having an open redirector, it needs its own subdomain, which is what Yahoo does. Then the subdomain can be blacklisted without collateral damage.

    Phishing via exploits of major sites is a big problem, but involves a small number of major sites. 168 major sites today. The usual exploits are:

    • Phishing site web servers on DSL lines. Some ISPs are good at kicking these off, and some aren't as good. "bellsouth.net" has more entries in PhishTank than any other domain.
    • "Open redirectors", URLs that can be exploited to redirect to another site, like the Google URL above.
    • Web hosting services, especially free ones, sometimes find themselves hosting phishing sites.
    • "Web 2.0" sites which allow uploading of user content but don't check it for exploits. Photobucket is used by some phishers, who upload hostile ".swf" files.
    • Break-ins on legitimate sites, where, typically, some obscure page is hosting hostile content. When an ".edu" site shows up in our list, that's usually what happened.

    Out of 1.6 million domains in DMOZ, and over 10,000 phishes in PhishTank, only 168 domains are in both. So the number of sites that need to be fixed is small. In fact, some of those sites are already fixed, but the entries haven't been removed from PhishTank yet. (Hint: if you kill a hostile page on your domain, make it a 404 error; that gets the page out of PhishTank's "active and online" list automatically. Don't just change the content or redirect it somewhere else, or it stays in the tank until somebody rechecks it manually, which can take weeks.)

    For every site in the list, there's some competitor in the same business who isn't on the list. "Everybody has this problem" isn't a valid excuse any more. This is a useful point to make with management if you find your own company on the list.

    This list of 168 exploited sites is updated automatically every three hours. There's also a list of sites recently removed from PhishTank. "n-insanity.com", "tropmet.res.in", "wsjob.com" were dropped from the list today; they no longer have active, online entries in PhishTank. "gentlesource.com", "t35.com" (an eBay phish), "tilapia.com" (another eBay phish), and "uic.edu" (already fixed) were added; they just appeared in PhishTank. If you have any responsibility for a site on the list, please take steps to fix the problem. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

  44. Meanwhile, in other news ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... thousands of malware sites abandon Google and take their business to MSN Search.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  45. Thousands of common terms by avirrey · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'm just too damn logical, but if someone types in "microsoft" and "free" in the same search query, I'm sure as hell expecting them to get malware in their results....

    --
    X's and O's for all my foes.

  46. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by FuzzyDaddy · · Score: 1

    My older daughter is the only person that comes up when I google her "Firstname Lastname". I wonder if that means she'll hate me for giving her a weird name, or thank me because the URL is still available.

    --
    It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.
  47. Swik by bigtangringo · · Score: 1

    Can they get rid of Swik.net while they're at it? I loathe that damn site.

    --
    Yes, I am a smart ass; it's better than the alternative.
  48. Re:Not everything is better with the brand you kno by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1
    (G)P isn't insightful. He's just on his usual Anti-"M$" vitriolic rantings again.

    It's not Google's burden to quell IE (or Firefox, Opera, etc) exploits.

    No-one said it is.

    It is however Google's burden to quash spyware sites that exploit loopholes and weaknesses in Google's ranking and indexing algorithms that allow such malware to effortlessly make it to the front page of search results for any thousand of subjects.

  49. Re:They've also changed their PageRank for many si by rkanodia · · Score: 1

    I encounter many namespace collisions, unless I go full out and include my middle name. On the other hand, since I married a Jewish girl, coming up with distinct identifiers for my future children will be easy and not even require some stupid 'take a common name and spell it wrong' kind of thing. I mean, how many Jacob Kanodias can there be in the world?