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Oregon AG Seeks to Investigate RIAA Tactics
NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "Turning the tables on the RIAA's attempt to subpoena information from the University of Oregon, that state's Attorney General has now filed additional papers to conduct immediate discovery into the RIAA's 'data mining' techniques. These techniques include the use of unlicensed investigators, the turning over of subpoenaed information to collection agencies, and the obtaining of personal information from computers. The AG pointed out (pdf) that 'Because Plaintiffs routinely obtain ex parte discovery in their John Doe infringement suits ... their factual assertions supporting their good cause argument are never challenged by an adverse party and their investigative methods remain free of scrutiny. They often settle their cases quickly before defendants obtain legal representation and begin to conduct discovery.'"
Wow, hopefully this isn't shot down in the court system, and honestly if there's any common sense left in the courts (which there seems to be a slowly increasing amount of) it won't be. There have been far too many cases of snooping going unchecked, be it RIAA, NSA, FBI, etc.
Can't wait for updates to this one.
The original generic sig.
What does this mean, if I read it correctly is this really the state department responsible for prosecuting CRIMINAL cases who has launched ON THEIR OWN an investigation of RIAA methods?
Is Oregon some red state of the US? Is the prosecutor involved to old to care about his career?
I hate to get excited over nothing but this seems like a major setback for the RIAA and their underhanded tactics. A real criminal investigation? Neat.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
It's about time!
I don't want to count the chickens before they are hatched, but I think we are beginning to see a real change in the direction of this thing. Recall EMI wanting to stop funding the RIAA. There is real success happening here. Only good can come from this scrutiny. For far too long now they've been trolling the courts and beating up on the little guy. So I say Hooray for Oregon's Attorney-General.
(see comment about chickens before hatching)Although as I type this I recall the new restrictive copyright laws in Switzerland and Canada. This has tempered my optimism, but still I think things are finally changing.
I got a catholic block.
One can only hope that:
1. Other states copy this (not to mention the feds).
2. The RIAA gets some sense and backs down.
3. The public can enjoy their music without fear of being involved in a witch hunt.
I'm likely dreaming, but one can dream can't they?
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
A bill appointing the RIAA and its investigators as deputy federal marshals.
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Taken from the blog Recording Industry vs The People
I think they have enough ammunition here to put the RIAA on the defensive. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out, especially what counter-arguments the RIAA comes up with. This smells like the SCO all over again.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
Looking very similar to the SCO case now. The RIAA through data mining has come up with "evidence" and the AG for Oregon is asking something reasonable of the court: how did you get this information and what was it? Oh, and does the company you got this from even have an investigating license? It's sickening to see the RIAA try to get their way by their dumpster diving discovery requests.
They stalled on another case when they were asked to prove their methods. I believe the AG may have something there with investigator license which could turn into criminal charges for maybe both the RIAA and the company they hired to do their dirty work.
It would be nice if the it is found that the RIAA was involved in some serious legal wrong doing and it opened up the door to counter suits - especially by the folks who were bullied into settling.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
--the RIAA papers did not show that any infringing activity actually took place
The RIAA has consistently done(or not done?) this. Yet they still win in the courts. Can anyone explain to me how they have convinced judges that a). they have accrued damages against their constituent companies without hard data and b). what links do they provide at all to the courts? IP's? MAC addresses?
I got a catholic block.
Will this sort of news be generated, or allowed, in order to remove the thoughts of the public from impeaching the criminals in the whitehouse? Yeah, I know that sounds a bit tin hat-ish, but it would not be the first time that some news item was used to distract attention from the news we, the people, are not supposed to pay attention to. Like the magician does, lets you see the one hand while the other is doing the tricks. I'm all for this, and hope the AG gets supreme satisfaction in the court system with it, but I'm also watching to see what else is happening elsewhere. The **AA is big business, and big business is shacked up with big government. In this year of election antics, you have to always wonder what is really happening....
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
this is the kind of news i want to see after a long hard day's work ! - bullies getting whacked ! gives me the goosebumps. it doesnt feel like christmas, but it surely has a taste of it.
and i mean it !
Read radical news here
Yes. We in the US have the best justice money can buy. And the great thing is, since you're not bribing judges, it's not corrupt.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Excellent!!
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
I wonder if the member companies of the RIAA (Sony, BMG, etc.) could be held liable for RIAA's tactical abuse of the legal system?
I can't help but wonder if perhaps there's someone high up in the RIAA that maybe wants there to be some kind of copright reform and (being the sociopath that it takes to get that high in the organization) figures "Fuck it, might as well get as much as we can out of it while forcing the copyright reform." I mean they can't be intelligent and still use the tactics they're using. So there must be something else to it.
Is there any hope that they'll indict these folks with criminal charges? Especially for the "unlicensed investigators" bit?
Because I'd sure love to see MediaSentry/BayTSP get shafted like MediaDefender was. With any luck, the latter will go out of business given that they lost the better part of a million dollars over the email leak and they were already operating pretty far into the red.
Also, is there any chance of this opening them up to lawsuits from those who were "investigated"? In other words, might Oregon (or other) residents be able to file a class action even if they already settled with the RIAA?
I'd love to see more lawyers set their sights on the RIAA. When you declare war on your customers (and yes, even "pirates" buy stuff, unless they're boycotting them now), you're NOT going to win the war.
this is not an AG office investigation, its a discovery related to this pretrial motion.
This crap is entirely too complicated.
Let's grab our pitchforks!
These techniques include the use of unlicensed investigators, the turning over of subpoenaed information to collection agencies, and the obtaining of personal information from computers.
I've always wondered how these non-government agencies can get away with this kind of behavior without someone bringing them up on some kind of wiretapping/DMCA charge. Seems like the RIAA would be in violation of the CALEA to me, as well as the DMCA - since they must circumvent access control to gain the kinds of information they claim to have. (And yes, I do count bluffing universities that they have to hand over IP addresses as circumvention - it's Social Engineering, and it's as old as hacking itself).
They're not cops. Why do they have cop powers? I know for a fact if I do *any* of the crap they're doing, I'll go to jail.
Why not them?
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
are counterclaims possible? reversed judgments? all the extorted and strong armed soccer moms: do they have grounds for a class action lawsuit against the recording industry's attack dogs as the legal tide turns against them?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
An IP address and a timestamp does not identify a particular computer. It might, at most, point to a cable modem, dsl modem, wireless router, none of which store or share files.
Adding a screen snapshot of a list of files of unknown content doesn't improve in that identification.
An IP address and a timestamp and a screen shot of file names doesn't identify an individual.
None of the above shows that any copyrighted work was ever distributed illegally.
Finding copyrighted music files on a hard drive is no evidence of illegal downloading.
To recap, the RIAA has:
No way to identify an individual.
No way to identify a computer or tie it to an individual.
No proof, or ability to get proof, of illegal downloading.
No proof, or ability to get proof without having tapped internet connections of any distribution to anyone but their own investigators, who frankly don't count legally.
No case at all to justify their invasion of a user's privacy, and the extortion attempts to follow as they insist through their lying mouths, "We have already secured the information necessary to win against you in court!
The RIAA also has yet to prove in nearly all these cases that they are the current copyright holders of the very songs they seek to sue over, often presenting original copyright certificates in the names of companies that are no longer even in existence, and individual artists who have since died.
Yes, the courts need to put a direct and firm end to all this nonsense.
(Note to file sharers: Don't use your own personal, or nick, name as your KaZaA handle.)
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I actually tried to get something going a long time ago. The sheeple community has the power to shut these guys down but there's always this attitude of we've got to hide from the big bullies.
I remember when the deny lists like PeerGuardian got started. I --er, a friend of mine that is-- wrote to the guy, I think he called himself Method Man, anyway I said look you've got to think like a programmer and a lawyer here instead of just playing defense what you need to do is to create the documentation to go on the offense with a class action suit. It would have been ridiculously easy to incorporate into PeerGuardian but the guy wasn't interested and my friend wasn't going to start my own effort since the P2P forums are such ego trips He wasn't up for the effort despite the fact that such apps are just simple little scripts.
So this buddy of mine, he tried to offer the same idea at BluTack but again it was politely ignored because it didn't fit anybody's personal agenda. The concept is simple. Just as the RIAA, Media Defender, BayTSP etc is asserting their rights to data, you can do the same by simply informing them when they access your network with their known IPs that this is a private network and you, the administrator, have banned then from your network. That's it. Just create the documentation and upload it into an on-line database. You just need to document that this set of IPs is violating your network policy and that they have been warned of legal action if they persist. On the individual case this looks meaningless, but just think if several million users had done this four years ago there would already be a massive database showing ongoing abuse.
And can we be assured that those who abuse their authority will never again be able to acquire such a position of authority? We can tattoo their foreheads to make then easily identifiable and they can flip burgers for the rest of their lives.
What?
It couldn't happen to a more deserving group of bastards.
However, I'm not going to crack open the champagne unless some sort of criminal prosecution actually comes out of this.
When I saw that title I wondered what's this German incorporated company called "Oregon".
No, if you settled, you settled. You're done. The trial is irrelevant, and doesn't even have to begin (most didn't) for settlement to occur.
IANAL, BIPOOTV
President of U of O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_B._Frohnmayer used to be the AG in this state.
I'm sure he talks to the current AG once in awhile.
RIAA needs to learn to stop going after law schools.
Finally the offense against the RIAA is beginning to snowball. Boycotts are all very well, but this is better. No more avoiding them, waiting around to find out who the RIAA is going after next, and then springing to their defense. Been enough damage done by these rabid dogs, finally they're getting shot. Though, I'd feel better if some more mainstream states got in on the action-- Oregon has a reputation for being pretty far out sometimes. Still, it's a good start.
What's next on the offensive? A case against the MPAA for DVD region encoding, an illegal restraint of trade if ever there was one? Get DRM removed from HDMI, Blu-Ray and HD DVD? I seem to recall a consumer protection principle forbidding bundling-- the practice of forcing customers to buy and use extra "features" they don't want in order to get something they do. How about investigations and lawsuits against the RIAA for the trouble they've caused online radio? Death by a thousand cuts as the RIAA's thousands of victims, both customers who were bullied into settlement and musicians who were cheated by Hollywood accounting, come forward to demand recompense, rather like smokers did to the tobacco industry? And don't forget an assault upon the laws these goons managed to get passed. Scale copyright terms way back, that sort of thing.
Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"