Google Pages to be Replaced by JotSpot

fyc writes "According to a presentation by Scott Johnson, ex-JotSpot executive and recent Google employee, the JotSpot wiki service acquired late last year by Google is to replace Google's own Pages service. The new service will be called as Google Sites and will launch next year. From the presentation: 'Based on JotSpot collaboration tools, Sites will allow business to set up intranets, project management tracking, customer extranets, and any number of custom sites based on multi-user collaboration.'"

Comments

good

[Instine]

Wierd (for me) that I was wondering when a Gwiki would be coming. I'm guessing this'll be free too? My question is, when do we get to host script and flash etc on Google's domain?

Re:good

[larry bagina]

you can (ab)use google code hosting to serve up any type of file.

Are people still falling for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Put all your valuable business information on our servers. Go ahead, do it. What could go wrong?

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[sqrt(2)]

I hope we're not at the point where merely having a dissenting opinion about the Google constitutes a troll post. There's a need, now more than ever for that opposition voice to be heard. Google is snatching up projects all the time, it's easy to see that their goal is complete control of the business of information management. When it's possible for a company to use Google for everything it's going to be too late to raise privacy and security concerns. Which is why we need to be having that discussion NOW. Google offers these services for free, largely, and if business begins switching over in large numbers to a Google centric data management system YOUR data and YOUR private info will end up in Google's hands just by you doing business with those companies. Now, currently I trust Google more than Microsoft to protect that, they've done nothing yet to shake that trust and they do offer some very valuable services for zero cost, but I do not want them to ever have a monopoly--in any area.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[Instine]

It's a valid concern (at least for it to be discussed more), but whats the solution? Apart from simply avoiding the net app model? If you want to use the benefits of SaaS, how would you/anyone suggest these concerns are reduced/nulled? Not at all suggesting more can't be done. Just asking what people think should be done to avoid SaaS continually raising the priacy argument...

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[jellomizer]

Often a lot less then what could go wrong if you managed it at the business. Echonomies of scale, For a small business especially one not focused on IT. There data storage of important files are on some laptop which could die any second now. For most small IT Companies they have a server perhaps with some sort of raid, and know they should backup daily but usually get it once a month... Even for Mid sized companies managing all the data and keeping it safe is a lot of work and is expensive. It is expensive for google too but that is what they do and do rather well... So chances are that if you lost your data to googe and it was stolen is a lot less then if you try to manage it yourself, while having other jobs to do.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Regardless of whether you decide to go with Google or not, I think it's important that you carefully research your options. Just because maintaining data and keeping it safe is expensive doesn't mean that you should just go with a well-recognized business simply because it's free. Find out if it matches your needs, analyze the pros and cons and go with what works for you.

I personally believe that in this day and age that IT costs should be factored into the cost of running your business automatically, especially if using the internet or sending email is part of your company's daily operation. Investing money into a professional set-up will not work better in the long run, but you can prepare yourself for any potential pitfalls that may appear. Trusting in Google at this early stage in the game doesn't seem the like a good way to go since none of know where Google is headed. How they decide to operate their business could put your business at risk as well.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

For those worried about an evil google:
1) When shopping online, open accounts with fake info, but use real card info.
2) For the cards, buy and use the Simon Visa Gift Cards, or the like. You can put whatever info on them you want, and you can buy them with cash. They are untraceable.

After the above, google can track each account, but they can't correlated anything so it's pretty harmless. It only gets nasty if they get access to your bank account data, but then the games over already as far as I'm concerned.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[Professor_UNIX]

it's easy to see that their goal is complete control of the business of information management.

But... but that seems kind of evil to me. They said they're not evil.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[moosesocks]

If google wants to be taken seriously in the enterprise market (due to the obvious privacy implications you mention), they need to start offering network appliances that allow users to privately host their own google service locally without requiring a direct connection to Google.

Of course, that all said, I don't particularly feel that Google's applications are well-suited to the enterprise to begin with. Microsoft's got that market pretty well cornered, and the level of integration provided by Exchange is simply unmatched. Along the same lines, although I find GMail and GCal both to be fantastic, they're both missing that sort of "snappiness" that you'd get from a desktop application.

Google's services are attractive to anyone who can't afford their own server (and the staff to run it). Anyone else should probably look elsewhere (and hopefully, we'll start seeing some good OSS packages that can rival Exchange)

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[coolGuyZak]

The same could be said for any outsourcing--you'd like to know were they'll be 5 years down the line. Likewise, the same could be said for any business decision--you should weigh the opportunity costs of any business transaction. Your post casts a light into a dark corner, but it doesn't illuminate much.

While I understand your POV concerning IT, there's tons to focus on when managing a company: product development, customer service, sales & marketing, etc. Funneling a ton of money into your information systems isn't worth the cost unless your core competency is IT or heavily dependent upon it (e.g., software development). This is only accentuated when you can obtain useful, high-availability services from an incredibly competent staff for a fraction of the expense of other shops.

Obviously this decision should be made on a case-by-case basis. Google's not going anywhere in the near future, and they rarely diminish their service capabilities. Thus, in the general case, I feel that it's better to focus on how well their services integrate into your information infrastructure rather than where the service will be in 5 years.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not so much about an infrastructure in 5 years as much as it is a privacy concern in 5 years. I still think that relying on Google at this point only to find out 5 years (or less) from now that Google takes massive liberties with your private information is a risky gamble.

I agree that it's a terrible idea to dump massive amounts of money into IT, but at least just go with an affordable choice that you have control of. That's probably my biggest concern. Google looks great now. I've tried out their features and I actually like them quite a bit. However, what happens when you try to move away from them at some point in the future and find that you can't actually remove anything permanently. Would you be willing to leave your business in the hands of a company that could very well permanently archive all of your business-related information?

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[bigpicture]

"What could go wrong?" From my experience not a lot more than currently goes wrong with loss of data on walled enterprise systems. Google gives more storage for free, than what I presently have for my e-mail on an enterprise system. At least with Google you might be able to reach the Statute of Limitations storage requirements. I believe Google might have a few extra servers for hardware and data back-up.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[Andrew Miller]

Good point. Scott addressed this in his presentation and during the Q&A. He compared Google's cloud computing capabilities to a bank. People no longer hoard money under their mattresses because we have come to trust banks. We deposit our money and know that it will be safe until we need it again, and that nobody else will be able to access it. Google wants to achieve this level of trust with its users, and he frequently reiterated that they are secure and constantly hardening their systems even more. I know what you're going to say...banks get robbed all the time and/or the deposits are insured by the FDIC. We'll have to see how Google weathers the first storm when somebody (internal or external) finds a way around the controls and does some damage to PII (personally identifiable info) or actual stored data. I don't think they can afford to take that kind of hit right now.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[owlnation]

it's easy to see that their goal is complete control of the business of information management.

But... but that seems kind of evil to me. They said they're not evil.

Business (i.e. large Corporations) don't need to be evil. It's just that almost all are to a greater or lesser extent. Google providing non-evil services to corporations doesn't necessarily make them evil per se. However, I do agree that it's seems improbable that if you are hosting evil that you won't somehow be tainted by it.

It seems like a dangerous path to walk down for anyone with genuine integrity.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[coolGuyZak]

Good points, all around. Given that perspective, the course of action could be to define what information is appropriate to upload, and analyze the cost/benefit ratio within that context.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[cmacb]

I would question whether Google even has a monopoly on search. Having the largest numbers does not a monopoly make.

They certainly don't have a monopoly on anything else. They are beaten easily by Facebook, Myspace, MS Office, Hotmail, Yahoo in areas where there is direct competition for specific products.

Why not just judge a company on what they HAVE done rather than on what they MIGHT do?

The reason Microsoft is still where it is is that people have not applied that principle. On the other hand, a company simply achieving a 51 percent market share doesn't make them unstoppable. Add to that the fact that it would be difficult or impossible for everyone on Earth to coordinate their product selections so that no company ever achieves a 51 percent market share.

I can't think of anything Google could do (other than buying Microsoft) that would lock users into their search technology, and certainly not their web page tool.

Likewise, I wouldn't have a problem using MS Office, if and only if I could use my preferred operating system (Linux) to run it. Office locks you into Windows; you only get full use of Live if you use Office and Windows; you can read your Hotmail with an offline reader as long as that offline reader is vended by MS. If you don't see a difference in the way Microsoft and Google do business, then you are not paying much attention.

I don't have a problem with people attacking Google when they screw up, but somewhere along the way they need to demonstrate that they're not just another Microsoft astroturfer. Comments with supporting evidence are much less likely to be modded troll or flamebait.

Let's agree to clean up the monopolists we already have, then worry about stopping the potential ones.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cash is a commodity. Data is not. One bit is not as good as another.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[Joe Tie.]

I hope we're not at the point where merely having a dissenting opinion about the Google constitutes a troll post.

I'm not saying it's the case this time around, but it can get a bit predictable and tedious. Every single time google does anything, posts which might as well be copy/paste from the article before it, and before it, etc, appear. It usually takes a lot of searching in stories about google to actually get to comments that have anything to do with the specific topic. It's getting to the point of being slashdot around the year 2000 with any topic about microsoft, where one had to scroll down post after post of bluescren, pie, and yakov text to track down comments on the real technological issues.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[mysticgoat]

Mod parent up.

An increasing number of businesses cannot afford to hire IT personnel who have the skills to keep up with the growing risks of data corruption and security problems. I work for a college that teaches a number of IT related courses from Introduction to Spreadsheets to advanced CS stuff, and quite frankly our IT department is stymied by the security issues that USB drives raise. Even if we get that resolved soon, next year will bring some other challenge that we will initially deal with in the same time-honored way: stonewall inquiries by saying that there is no problem here since we are up to date in all our patches; use all the techniques of security through obscurity, including refusals to investigate the logs to see if we've been hit; and pray that Microsoft will give us a patch before someone discovers our ass is bare.

Contracting with Google or some other business that specializes in data management is an immediate good solution for many at risk businesses: the risks of Google screwing them over are a lot less than the risks they are currently facing. Whether it would work for my college is debatable: it would mean that some persons in IT would have to deflate their egos and admit that their personal wizardry is limited. Sometimes colleges have to wait for key retirements before they can advance.

In the long term, hiring Google or a competitor to do a company's databanking will be seen as similar to hiring an accounting firm to handle the payroll. For many businesses, it will be a strategy that makes a lot more sense than attempting an in-house solution.

I would like to see more discussion from IT professionals about what clauses should be in a contract with Google for managing proprietary information. What mechanisms (contract clauses) need to be in place to assure that the data is under good protection: in terms of

• privacy,
• protection from corruption, and
• ease of access by authorized persons?

Are there any other categories that should be on this short list? Should the contract specify remedies for certain breaches? How would the client assure that his databank was meeting its contractual obligations? Is there a role here for a third party that has audit and investigative powers?

The banking and accounting industries are regulated by government bodies, and the regulations have been developed from wisdom acquired in over a hundred years of experience. Mostly through reactions to negative experiences: bureaucracies are basically reactionary mechanisms.

Can IT professionals be a bit more forward-looking than bureaucratic regulators, and anticipate problems and develop contract language that would avoid or mitigate them? If so, then maybe the nascent databanking industry can develop without the need for an external regulatory bureaucracy.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[ContractualObligatio]

This is not about SaaS. This is about trusting sensitive information to a huge global corporation with an avowed intent to manage the world's information, no particular respect for other people's business, and already happy to forget about "don't be evil" when for instance there's a lot of money to be made in China. It's not been too many years they've been around - why shouldn't they get worse after 20 years as the founders' influence grows wanes?

Google's business model gives them incentives to disregard your privacy, so the solution is simple. If going down the SaaS route, either pick a local company, or if going for a multi-national, pick a provider whose revenue depends on providing *you* with a secure, reliable service, rather than finding ways of *using* your data to help *others* benefit.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[GreggBert]

Storing all your important corporate information on a Google hosted service is like storing all your bananas on the Planet Of The Apes.

That having been said, I'd rather Google's apes sniff my bananas than MonkeySoft's apes. A segment of the company I toil for was using JotSpot prior to the buyout and if Google can do a fair job of integrating their search and Google Docs apps into the service, they could potentially have a strong contender in the information management space.

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[hesaigo999ca]

I tend to think that Google is the only company that stands a chance of slowing down the Microsoft monster we all have come to love. If Google can really upset the balance, by finding a better foothold, coming out with free web based tools that do exactly everything that our "windows" does, whether your a windows or linux user, then we do away with windows altogether right, then it becomes a Linux world as in free as in beer....which means that if Microsoft wants to stay competitive, they will have to put out more FREE stuff, yes vista for free, can you imagine, then Linux would have to come out with even cooler stuff to keep up etc....all because Google sees a future with free tools for everybody. I could even use my old Pentium II laptop now to do all my web stuff, and still be right up there with all the big boys running the big rigs without configuring my terminal server to log into the intranet etc...etc...

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[AP31R0N]

Here's a thought: Don't post any info on your X's services that you want to keep private. 'Private' and 'on the internet' are mutually exclusive terms. If i wear my favorite band shirt to the mall i can't expect the name of my favorite band to be private. If you post your high school massacre plans on your MySpace page... you shouldn't be offended when the cops show up. Don't want that cute girl to know you have a crush on her? Don't tell anyone! If you want something kept private... keep it private.

If you don't trust company/service X, don't use them.

You have the power!

Re:Are people still falling for this?

[technix4beos]

You mean like the Google Search Appliance?

Google has started their way into the Enterprise market with Google Enterprise.

great

[wwmedia]

yet another step in google plan for world domination using information tho will happen to blogspot then? its along the same lines and will new gwiki end up like blogspot? full of warez blogs linking to rapidshare?

Re:great

[Jugalator]

?

I don't see how a blog is related to a wiki / project manager / multi-user collaboration system in any way at all.

Blogs are "web logs" where people can post stuff without multi user collaboration. A wiki, project manager, or collaboration system is a content managing system for user groups. How would these two be related exactly?

Re:great

[pikine]

Speaking of which, I really hope they maintain some consistency in the editor through Blogspot, Google Pages, Google Document, etc. Right now the behaviors for newline conversion, handling of preformatted text, and things you can insert like images and tables are different in all Google apps. I think it's a user experience nightmare. It also shows how little the different teams talk to each other. I also hope that Blogspot becomes integrated with Google Pages so some of the site can be blog and I can use Google Pages for other static pages.

Now they gain a wiki engine, what about the option to publish a blog in wiki syntax?

What about our existing pages/info?

[Peet42]

Will they maintain "legacy" URLs for early adopters who have amassed many pages and interlinked them with other websites/posted links where they can't edit them?

Re:What about our existing pages/info?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope they all get deleted and wiped from the disks. Most of the spam that makes it into my inbox is some a link to:
http://somerandomstupidsite.googlepages.com/

Maybe now there will be an actual authentication system and I sure hope they charge for it like most hosts to eliminate their spam issue.

And yes, every time I see a http://somerandomstupidsite.googlepages.com/ link I report it to Google and within 24 hours that account has been deactivated.

Mostly old news

[quarrel]

We knew for the Jot team back in July that it was being added as a Google Domain App.

So we now know it has a name.

Still, I'm looking forward to seeing it deployed. I currently use gmail for my personal domains, and it works well - easy to set up, generous limits.

--Q

Still Can't Register

[MT628496]

Maybe by the time this transition happens, you'll be able to register for a JotSpot account again. . .

As a google pages user...

[Vampyre_Dark]

I find the service to be almost useless, like a lot of other Google things. It's always missing the most basic of functionality.

Re:As a google pages user...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should elaborate?

Or is it just easier to post vague complaints?

Re:As a google pages user...

[Vampyre_Dark]

GMail - Couldn't delete. They fixed this eventually, but everything had to archived otherwise. When they introduced chat, it was decided that it would be enabled by default, and everyone was allowed to see you. (Eventually, they let you log out, or hide).

Pages - Can't make folders, or do much else other than type in templates. They have been 'working' on bringing us the ability to make folders for 2 years now. Everything has to be in the main folder, and the main 'home page' has to be used when entering the site. You can upload html pages after that, but the sum of the parts don't add up to what geocities was in 1997.

Talk - Everyone added to my list, and has access to hear my mic 'at my convenience'. GTalk just went ahead and added everyone I ever sent an e-mail to to my contact list as soon as I clicked to run it the first time.

Google Notifier - Looks the same whether I'm online, signed in, signed out, or lost my connection.

Google products, from what I've seen, don't believe in the concept of user options, or even any user input at some points. They like to just make all the choices for you, and then make you stick to it, until enough people complain and it gets added in.

If google made a toaster, there would be one setting, and one setting only. If you wanted your toast lighter, or darker, it's just too damned bad. Because the guy who made the google toaster already decided that your toast only needs that one optimum setting. This is until they finally unveil their great new feature, the variable timer, like it's never been done before, or wasn't an obvious, expected feature from the start.

I'm sure the google techs print all those new feature releases up, and put them on their fridge. You know, the gFridge! The one where your ice cream is always rock hard, because google determined the proper gTemperature for you.

Re:As a google pages user...

[Anonymous Coward]

Google is almost pathologically minimalistic.

Gmail: can't control junk mail, like for instance, disabling it. (Would be useful for maintaining mail locally.) I also seem to remember there being a problem with Gmail automatically adding email addresses to the contact list, filling it with useless ones over time.

Google Desktop: can't choose the location of the index! Can't control its indexing either. The initial build will only work when it has decided your computer is idle, which breaks the process when it's wrong (some wireless mice might be one cause of this problem). It's also annoying to need to keep the computer on all night, or to leave the computer alone all day until the index is finished.

Re:As a google pages user...

[Duck1123]

You know what... If I liked how dark it made it, and I could make toast for free over the web, I would probably use Google Toast Beta.

my only question

[Jarik C-Bol]

is, will they be trashing all the sites currently on google pages? 'cause that would be bad. for a lot of people.

Re:my only question

[Andrew Miller]

Scott didn't mention anything about this in his presentation. I would assume not. I got the impression that Google Sites (or whatever they end up calling it) will be merged with Google Page Creator. There were no definitive statements either way.

Personal Use

[Anonymous Coward]

Once this launches I think I will officially create a Google Apps account. This would probably be pretty useful.

Of course, if I was setting up a real business I would be hesitant to lock myself into a vendor so tightly.

AliBaBa?

[PRC Banker]

Does no one recognise this as potentially being an Alibaba clone type service? Alibaba, basically, provide an easy way for a company to be included in a large B2B service. No independent website required yet registration (together with various fees and verification) needed for a meaningful service. English languages are quite expensice. Clearly China-West is a great B2B market, Alibaba cornered it 18 months ago, so I'm curious if this is just yet another blog type service or something that could be vertically integrated into an effective directory type service, ads only, dominated by Google?

As opposed to putting it on a Windows with Virus

[WindBourne]

server? The question is WHO will be looking at your data? A single company with a decent reputation (except by the conspiracy theorists types), or everybody in the world.

the matrix

[fyoder]

Great, another thing to switch to google for. Eventually we will move our physical bodies to Google as well, into their gCapules which provide an exceptional virtual reality experience we can work in, the only price being their using our bodies as batteries to power their massive server farms. That, and objects in the virtual world will be festooned with google ads.

Re:the matrix

[CdBee]

Yes, damn them to hell for making free, compelling services, with non-intrusive and sometimes helpful advertising, cross-platform, cross-browser compatibility, resilient support and high levels of availability

What utter bastards they really are.

Re:the matrix

[slcdb]

Eventually we will move our physical bodies to Google as well

Eventually? Perhaps it has already happened... <orchestra>DuhnDuhnDUUUHHHNNN!</orchestra> *raises one eyebrow*

An Unsolvable problem of Capitalism

[Trintech]

First I'd like to point out that you can get MS Office for some other platforms like Mac albeit its still version 2004. I love ripping into M$ as much as the next /.er but not when its not at least somewhat true.

The problem of calling tech companies (and in other industries as well) evil monopolies is, to some extent, they are consumer voted monopolies, we the consumer gave it to them. This is especially true of Google. Over the years, Google listened to its consumers (mostly searchers), made lots of capital investments and ultimately kept increasing the quality of its services while adding new ones. What we now have to deal with is the fact that Google now has an infrastructure that is practically unmatchable by other companies and way too high of startup costs for other competitors to enter. Is it Google's fault that other companies cannot match the service it provides?

Google is just one example of this happening. As technology pushes forward and services become increasingly complicated, we are going to see more and more of this. They are monopolies not because they undermined the competition but because the $$$ barrier of entry is too great for others to enter and compete.

Re:An Unsolvable problem of Capitalism

[jwo7777777]

Companies don't get in trouble for being a monopoly. They get in trouble for abusing monopoly power.

CIA operatives please move on

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a clear bias here towards data security freaks, are most slashdot posters privy to very confidential information that can bring the world to an end and working in banks or government or something. In which case the service is clearly not for you.

For those of us including businesses for who data security/privacy is not that important because we do not attach so much importance to ourselves or our data, shockingly for some posters this is actually possible and rational, this is a welcome service. For those with tinfoil hats and CIA operatives please look elsewhere for your data needs instead of polluting these threads about the massive importance of your data.

Added functionality

[imboboage0]

I've been using Google Pages on and off since it first came out. It has always seemed to me to be rather... basic. This is especially true of the file manager. Does anyone have any idea about a possible upgrade to a better file manager, possibly involving the use of directories? FTP support would be really nice too.

RTFFAQ

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.jot.com/google/faq.html

Both Google and JotSpot are committed to continuing to support customers, and we know our users have invested a lot in JotSpot. Existing customers of the wiki, family site and class reunion site will continue to have uninterrupted access to their accounts and their data will not be affected. In the future, we'll work hard to move as seamlessly as possible to Google's systems so that customers won't be inconvenienced.

Will paying customers still be charged?

We will no longer be billing customers for the use of the service. Although you will still have use of the product at your current pricing plan, we won't charge you anymore when your current billing cycle expires.

What about partners and developers?

Google is committed to fostering a thriving third party ecosystem of developers and partners. Current JotSpot developers should refer to the JotSpot Developer Connection for more specifics. Solution partners should contact their account manager for more information.

How are JotSpot on-premise customers affected?

Existing JotBox appliance customers will continue to be supported. The downloadable JotSpot Wiki Server beta offering is being discontinued and we will not be providing support for existing users of the product.

Wrong name

[Cyvros]

Possibly redundant, but I would like to note that I got the man's name wrong - it should be Scott Johnston, not Scott Johnson.

Name change?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone think they will rename it to GSpot?

Finally

[leachim6]

I have been watching jotspot for a while , I'm glad that google is finally doing something with it

I'm very dissapointed

[eheldreth]

that no one has made a GSpot joke jet.